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Feetabix
30-11-2015, 20:52
........my ps4 whilst thrashing the e30 round the nordeschliefe etc?

If it matters, I use a t300/t3pa/th8a/7.1 headphones.

I started doing a bit of looking but I got a bit blown away by all the talk of super this, and 1080 that which I don't understand as I'm a middle aged bloke with little tech understanding!

I'm currently using a 15 year old telly which I presume is now prehistoric, and a new one would perform better!?.......

-Brick_Top-
30-11-2015, 21:24
........my ps4 whilst thrashing the e30 round the nordeschliefe etc?

If it matters, I use a t300/t3pa/th8a/7.1 headphones.

I started doing a bit of looking but I got a bit blown away by all the talk of super this, and 1080 that which I don't understand as I'm a middle aged bloke with little tech understanding!

I'm currently using a 15 year old telly which I presume is now prehistoric, and a new one would perform better!?.......

To give you the best possible answer the hardware you are using to play won't help. Is the Tele going to be gaming use only or are you after a good all rounder?

Feetabix
30-11-2015, 21:30
Gaming only.......

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar
30-11-2015, 21:44
Gaming only.......

In that case you might be able to get away with a smallish one and put it close to you. Imo there's a point where larger becomes negative for most games because you have to look around more. However, if I were building a single-screen dedicated sim rig, I would go large and close, and set the FOV high to get better peripheral vision.

Oh, and I'm a fan of LEDs with always-on backlights. No flicker, and the latency is minimal with today's displays.

bradleyland
30-11-2015, 21:56
Your primary focus should be input lag. Input lag is the time between the moment your TV receives the HDMI signal from your PS4 and the time it actually shows up on the screen. Ironically, the lowest input lag is achieved when you turn OFF all the fancy crap they include with televisions these days, so keep that in mind when you're considering going to a higher end model. The other thing to keep in mind is that the PS4 is 1080p only, so IMO, 4K is a bit of a waste. Yes, the TV will upscale the picture, and yes some people really like the effect, but it ends up looking blurry to me, and I can't stand it. I prefer to run my PS4 at native resolution, but that's just preference.

TV models change year-to-year, so it's hard to get current advice. Check reviews and focus your attention on the things that are most important to you, but keep an eye on input lag. For me personally, I'm good with anything under 35ms, but some people are more sensitive. There are TVs under 20ms though.

SGETI
30-11-2015, 22:35
Have you considered a gaming monitor? The response time should be under 5mm, not 35mm. 1 to 2 mm is preferred for gaming.
Do you have a racing rig which will allow a close placement? How close? , within in inches of the back of the T300, not more than a foot away.
take a look at these specs for monitors.

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2402169,00.asp

I use to race on a Sony 55 , thinking bigger was better, wrong. I have found my 27' monitor placed at the base of my T300 offers the best gaming experience.

GrimeyDog
30-11-2015, 22:39
That all depends on How Deep you want to get into the Sim Experience...I just bought a Samsung 48in UHD Curved TV... I Love it...99.95% for gaming use only!!! it makes the Racing/Driving experience more immersive... Hey im 46yrs grown so you Gotta spoil your self some time.... its a 1 time investment in personal enjoyment and i'm set for the next 5 to 7 yrs... The UHD and HD Movies are Incredible. wasn't all that expensive i got it for a few hundred...(Less than a grand)


Edit: WOW some of those moniters Cost more than the UHD TV i bought!!! and i've got 120/240 refresh rate.

Feetabix
30-11-2015, 23:01
Thanks for the replies guys........I have my t300 clamped onto a big oak table, and currently use a 28" jvc tv sat about 10cm from the wheel base.......

I'm not that fussed about huge screen widths, and I see the sense in a smaller scale screen sat up close.......it will be used for ps4 use only.........

Forgive my ignorance, but a PCs monitor will work on my ps4 connected with a hdmi cable?

Zeke Bewlay
01-12-2015, 02:10
Thanks for the replies guys........I have my t300 clamped onto a big oak table, and currently use a 28" jvc tv sat about 10cm from the wheel base.......

I'm not that fussed about huge screen widths, and I see the sense in a smaller scale screen sat up close.......it will be used for ps4 use only.........

Forgive my ignorance, but a PCs monitor will work on my ps4 connected with a hdmi cable?

Yes they do and as said above have the advantage of no observable lag. But then again modern TVs also have lag that is pretty well of no concern except to the most discerning of gamers. I'm using a 27" monitor about 70 cm from my eyes at the moment and although its OK i would like a bit more real estate so I can see more peripherally. But I'm awaiting the Sony VR rather than buying a TV as the VR really could be the ultimate solution.

M-Bimmer
01-12-2015, 08:17
First let's get this out of the way.
Any TV, OLED (Mainly LG) or LED which is an LCD Tv with a led backlight, all have input lag and high response time. For a casual gamer that should be ok. But for a dedicated rig it is a waste of money.

So PC monitors or monitors if u will (1080p, 1440p, 4k) all have very low input lag and response time compared to TVs.
For a dedicated gaming rig (console or pc) this is the way to go. Monitor would be like 60-70 cm away from your eyes so it is quite immersive. The sweet spot is 24 to 28 inch monitor (affordable). 4k monitor would i skip for another year or two so today 2k (1440p) or 1080p (full HD) monitors are the ones to go after.

If you decided otherwise and want to buy a TV then go for the top of the line series (i.e most expensive of any brand) since they will last you years to come but don't expect mircales when gaming. Yes they will look great to your eyes since u r upgrading from an old era tv (CRT?)

Input Lag info
http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/articles/input_lag.htm

Response time
http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/articles/response_time.htm

Hope this helps.

EvilEd71
01-12-2015, 19:13
I use my old TV from down stairs ..its an panasonic plasma 50 inch G20 lag on research runs about 20Ms on game mode has done me really well up to now ...

Feetabix
01-12-2015, 22:58
What are the realistic parameters to require from a 27" monitor then?

Does the ps4 need refresh rates above 60, as I see some go to 144?........

Can I presume also that I'm not going to tell much difference below say 10ms response times?.........I've seen as low as 1!......

LordDRIFT
02-12-2015, 20:40
. Imo there's a point where larger becomes negative for most games because you have to look around more.

Oh, and I'm a fan of LEDs with always-on backlights. No flicker, and the latency is minimal with today's displays.

I play on 120 inches @ 10 ft. Doesn't get much better and adds to immersion.

I cant imagine input lag being an issue on a modern TV from a first tier brand. Folks blow this one way out of proportion sorry. Now if you choose to apply picture "enhancements" that's a different story.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar
02-12-2015, 22:58
I play on 120 inches @ 10 ft. Doesn't get much better and adds to immersion.

I cant imagine input lag being an issue on a modern TV from a first tier brand. Folks blow this one way out of proportion sorry. Now if you choose to apply picture "enhancements" that's a different story.

Yeah, I remember the old LCDs, where lag was instantly obvious. And the less old ones where it was only noticeable if there were high-contrast lines in motion, like on clothing. I don't notice it on my weird fake-brand year-old one at all. Not noticing it is good enough unless money is no object. I wouldn't have paid 10% more than I did for "0ms latency", and getting close to that would probably be more like 100% or 200% more.

Feetabix
03-12-2015, 19:31
Quick update........I've plumped for an asus 27" monitor..........1080p..........1ms...........it looks to tick the boxes you've all mentioned.

Thanks for all the info from every one of you, I've quadrupled my understanding just from this thread.........

Zeke Bewlay
04-12-2015, 04:39
Yeah, I remember the old LCDs, where lag was instantly obvious. And the less old ones where it was only noticeable if there were high-contrast lines in motion, like on clothing. I don't notice it on my weird fake-brand year-old one at all. Not noticing it is good enough unless money is no object. I wouldn't have paid 10% more than I did for "0ms latency", and getting close to that would probably be more like 100% or 200% more.

On my 4 year old Samsung 55 lag is noticeable but didn't really worry me playing GT6. My 1 year old Samsung 55 in game mode you need to look pretty hard to see lag. My 27 inch monitor has imperceptible lag and I game on that because the rest of the family wants to use the TVs. I guess the test would be to see if performance varied across screens, but not really worried enough to find out.

Fong74
04-12-2015, 05:45
I am using the Sony Bravia KDL-42W705 currently and I am very satisfied with it. Its the LED TV with the smallest input lag (= time between the signal being issued by the console and shown on the TV; quite important for racing games but also for shooters; irrelevant if you watch movies though). I use it for gaming only. You can get it for less than 500€ already.

If you are willing to spend money on a UltraHD, 4K panel, go ahead. They are generally better in terms of input lag than LED TVs when running in FullHD (1080p) mode.

If size does not matter, stay with a PC monitor. They are the fastest panels. But way smaller than TVs obviously.

venquessa
04-12-2015, 07:09
+1 for a monitor.

There are reasons why they are sold separately. TVs look good for TV, but often suck for PC/Games. Typically TVs blur the image deliberately and have slow response times. Monitors are sharp and fast. The downside is that monitors show up all the nastiness in the average TV picture. Also, some TVs make it very hard to explain you want "just scan", no overscan, no changing the aspect, no blur, no messing around. If you do, for some reason, really, really want a TV, then make sure it has a specific PC/Console input which usually bypasses all the overscan and blur crap.

pa_pinkelman
04-12-2015, 14:14
I use a 27inch samsung monitor with my ps 4
Very happy with that. I tried a 40inch panasonic plasma and a 32samsung led tv. The plasma was ok-ish and are generally good for gaming. The 32inch samsung was terrible. A lot of ghosting from black to white (which is not inputlag btw). Changed back to the monitor because it has the best picture no inputlag and is built for gaming. They are not more expevsive than a tv since you only need one with a 1080p max resolution.

novcze
04-12-2015, 15:03
+1 for monitor, if you will use it for PS4 only.

Output from the PS4 is 60Hz so no reason to invest in 120Hz monitor, also focus on flicker free monitors where backlight is not regulated via PWM.

wyldanimal
04-12-2015, 15:29
Quick update........I've plumped for an asus 27" monitor..........1080p..........1ms...........it looks to tick the boxes you've all mentioned.

Thanks for all the info from every one of you, I've quadrupled my understanding just from this thread.........

Should perform well..
but the Real Spec that matters is Not part of any Listed Spec. MFGs don't list it...

Input Lag.

your 1ms spec is Response time, and I'll bet it GTG, so the actual BTW response time is probably closer to 8ms
That is response time.. Response time is How quickly a Pixel can go from Off to On, BTW ( black to White ), Or as Most do Now, Gray to Off to Gray, GTG ( Gray to Gray )
And that is very Different from Input Lag.

Input lag
is the time it takes for the video Signal to Get from your PC or Console, Till you See it on the Screen.
The Monitor or TV could have Software that Process the Video or Enhances it, and that Takes time... time that results in Input lag.

think about this...
at 200 MPH you go almost 300 feet in 1 second
If the Screen has an Input Lag of 1/10th a second that's 30 feet.

What you see on your screen, actually is 30 feet short of where your car really is in the game.
You think you turned in at corner, but you are actually almost off the track already.
You think you Braked and Didn't bump the car in front, but you really smacked it.

all your reactions to what you see are 30 feet Late!




Leo Bodnar has a Tester to Measure Input Lag.
http://www.leobodnar.com/shop/?main_page=product_info&products_id=212

I own one.. and Test all my Screens in the store before I buy it.
Less than 30ms is what you want... the Lower the better.

another way to do it...
If you have a Y cable for Sound, you can also use the Audio
Send One of the Y to your Sound system, and One to the TV, If you can hear any kind of Echo or reverb, Then you Have Input LAG

I used Audacity,
and recorded the Y on the Left channel Direct, and the TV out on the Right Channel.
Then I can see the Left and Right Wave Forms, and Measure pretty close the Input Lag, by using the Audio.

LordDRIFT
04-12-2015, 15:34
Yeah, I remember the old LCDs, where lag was instantly obvious. And the less old ones where it was only noticeable if there were high-contrast lines in motion, like on clothing. I don't notice it on my weird fake-brand year-old one at all. Not noticing it is good enough unless money is no object. I wouldn't have paid 10% more than I did for "0ms latency", and getting close to that would probably be more like 100% or 200% more.

Are you talking about input lag or motion blur?

Zeke Bewlay
06-12-2015, 23:40
think about this...
at 200 MPH you go almost 300 feet in 1 second
If the Screen has an Input Lag of 1/10th a second that's 30 feet.

What you see on your screen, actually is 30 feet short of where your car really is in the game.
You think you turned in at corner, but you are actually almost off the track already.
You think you Braked and Didn't bump the car in front, but you really smacked it.

all your reactions to what you see are 30 feet Late!

.

Tricky one. This is true, but presumably you're brain is trained to act earlier to compensate for the lag. Otherwise you could never hit an apex. So I think when you're lapping alone you could learn subconsciously to anticipate when to turn and turn earlier if there is some significant lag. Problem comes when something unexpected and rapid happens, like another car doing something in front you like braking unexpectedly, or your car loses grip suddenly. In that case your actions will be delayed by input lag. How significant that is in game I don't know. And it depends on how quick your reflexes are too.
I think...

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar
07-12-2015, 01:05
Are you talking about input lag or motion blur?

Display latency. I'm not sure what "input lag" means here. If it's the time between physically operating the controls and the result appearing on screen, then display latency would be part of input lag. Display latency can also cause moving objects on screen to blur.

M-Bimmer
15-12-2015, 12:21
What are the realistic parameters to require from a 27" monitor then?

Does the ps4 need refresh rates above 60, as I see some go to 144?........

Can I presume also that I'm not going to tell much difference below say 10ms response times?.........I've seen as low as 1!......

Nope. All PS4 games has max refresh rate at 60 fps.
Had 1 ms on my old led monitor 24" and now have a dell 2715H which has 6-8ms...by the way, this is the response time and no lag is counted. Lag could be "Input Lag, Display Lag or Signal Processing"

General advise on IPS or TFT monitors:

* If interested in 24" or 25 inch then the best resolution to get is 1080p (full HD): Dell 2515H is the only IPS monitor on the market offering a 25 inch while it is very affordable.

TFT central review

http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/dell_u2515h.htm

(http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/dell_u2515h.htm)




(Measurements in ms)




Total Display Lag (SMTT 2)
13.7


Pixel Response Time Element
4.65


Estimated Signal Processing Lag
9.05


Lag Classification
1
















(http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/dell_u2515h.htm)
* If interested in 27" or higher then go for 2k (1440p) or higher. 1080p on a 27 inch is no go since it does not look as sharp as on 24 or 25 inch but if affordable then why not ;)

TFT central review

http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/dell_u2715h.htm




(Measurements in ms)




Total Display Lag (SMTT 2)
12.0


Pixel Response Time Element
4.95


Estimated Signal Processing Lag
7.05


Lag Classification
1



(http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/dell_u2715h.htm)