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ahmedo
30-12-2015, 10:19
I'm playing the game on ps4 with t300rs and I use Jack Spade's FFB classic settings. Which one do you guys think is better? Assists on or off?

nissan4ever
30-12-2015, 11:46
I personally don't use assists. That's a personal preference. I myself love the challenge of throttle control. I've never have had a problem with locking up the brakes.

biggbaddwolf
30-12-2015, 12:00
I don't use steering, or braking assistance, but I do have ABS, SC, and TC all turned on. Just like braking into the corners, I guess just my personal driving style, but if I have ABS off my car won't steer!!!!

nissan4ever
30-12-2015, 12:17
I guess just my personal driving style, but if I have ABS off my car won't steer!!!!

Sounds like you're braking a little to late for the turn. You're coming in to hot. Try braking little earlier for the turn. Already be at entry speed when turning into the turn. In slow & out fast ;)

kyoo
30-12-2015, 13:06
I donīt use any assists except ABS as I believe I can go faster without them. Recently Iīve been wondering if I can be faster without ABS also, do you guys think that with lots of training no ABS is faster than ABS?

biggbaddwolf
30-12-2015, 14:15
Sounds like you're braking a little to late for the turn. You coming in to hot. Try braking little earlier for the turn. Already be at entry speed when turning into the turn. In slow & out fast ;)

Thanks I will give it a try.

nissan4ever
30-12-2015, 14:59
I donīt use any assists except ABS as I believe I can go faster without them. Recently Iīve been wondering if I can be faster without ABS also, do you guys think that with lots of training no ABS is faster than ABS?

Yes, you can go faster. Just need to practice the correct braking point for entry into a turn & the right amount of brake pedal pressure. Then you'll have ideal entry speed. Hit that apex & stomp it! It's all about the right braking point & applied pressure for that turn on the track!

OG-Fed
30-12-2015, 15:20
One of the biggest assists is the driving line. It hinders you from learning the proper braking points because its so easy to ignore where your at and just rely on the line to turn red. Once I started playing with the driving line off, I learned the track (and how the car handles) quicker. Also, its really ugly and ruins the beauty of the tracks IMO. Once you get used to learning the track the way a real driver would, you can't ever go back.

When learning the track braking points, first start braking early and find a marker or a visual clue near the brake point to remember next time around. You'll learn how much you can cheat past that point with laps you put in.

biggbaddwolf
30-12-2015, 15:27
Yeah I turned the damn line off a long time ago, and it does help you learn the tracks much better!!! I also tested with ABS with/without..Formula C car, default setup-Road America. With ABS 2:05:00 without ABS 2:10:89, so I am still over five seconds faster with ABS...

nissan4ever
30-12-2015, 15:49
takes practice of correct braking points, correct brake pressure & correct gear. You'll get there.

beetes_juice
30-12-2015, 16:33
5 sec gap between on/off ABS seems a bit much. Practice, practice, practice.

In the formula cars I find myself only going +85% brake throw in heavy braking zones; corner after kemmel straight and bus stop @ spa for example. All others are very light taps to throttle lift offs.

kyoo
30-12-2015, 16:56
I thought that with ABS on it was possible to brake later without locking wheels and so get better lap times....guess I was wrong...


Yes, you can go faster. Just need to practice the correct braking point for entry into a turn & the right amount of brake pedal pressure. Then you'll have ideal entry speed. Hit that apex & stomp it! It's all about the right braking point & applied pressure for that turn on the track!

Isnīt that way of driving possible with ABS also? Or with no ABS the car brakes less and makes it possible to turn while braking or something like that?
Sorry I donīt figured it out yet, need much more practice...

biggbaddwolf
30-12-2015, 17:12
I am getting MUCH better lap times with ABS ON than with it off. I guess it could make a difference with DS controller vs wheel too..I am using a DS controller..

RomKnight
30-12-2015, 17:25
For pad users will help for sure or even less experienced drivers or crappy pedal set.

Brake modulation without ABS will make it harder to brake. ABS in pCARS is too effective too so will allow you just pick up the right brake point and keep it pressed until there's no more need for it. You can even go wide and just keep it pressed to "hold" the line if needed.

No fun at all. I don't use it unless for some reason a car does not allow brake pressure and bias tweaks or maybe in heavy rain.

nissan4ever
30-12-2015, 17:26
I thought that with ABS on it was possible to brake later without locking wheels and so get better lap times....guess I was wrong...



Isnīt that way of driving possible with ABS also? Or with no ABS the car brakes less and makes it possible to turn while braking or something like that?
Sorry I donīt figured it out yet, need much more practice...

Your braking distance is shorter with abs off. All abs does is help you not go into an uncontrollable skid (from tires locking). When abs is engaged, it's grabbing & releasing the rotor (actually increases your stopping distance vs controlled hard braking).

You have to practice to find the correct braking point in the car you're driving at that track. You have to practice how much brake pressure you need to apply for the approaching turn. Practice, practice & more practice. Doesn't matter if you on pad or wheel.

You eventually will be faster with abs off. Won't happen over night.

biggbaddwolf
30-12-2015, 17:45
Your braking distance is shorter with abs off. All abs does is help you not go into an uncontrollable skid (from tires locking). When abs is engaged, it's grabbing & releasing the rotor (actually increases your stopping distance vs controlled hard braking).

You have to practice to find the correct braking point in the car you're driving at that track. You have to practice how much brake pressure you need to apply for the approaching turn. Practice, practice & more practice. Doesn't matter if you on pad or wheel.

You eventually will be faster with abs off. Won't happen over night.
Yep I will keep working on it :D

RomKnight
30-12-2015, 17:52
Yep I will keep working on it :D

I know Christmas is gone but errr... this is where better (load cell) pedals come into play (beware of the missus wolf though :D )

kyoo
30-12-2015, 18:11
Your braking distance is shorter with abs off. All abs does is help you not go into an uncontrollable skid (from tires locking). When abs is engaged, it's grabbing & releasing the rotor (actually increases your stopping distance vs controlled hard braking).

You have to practice to find the correct braking point in the car you're driving at that track. You have to practice how much brake pressure you need to apply for the approaching turn. Practice, practice & more practice. Doesn't matter if you on pad or wheel.

You eventually will be faster with abs off. Won't happen over night.

Thanks man, from now on I will play with no assists at all then... all I needed was some motivation heh

kyoo
30-12-2015, 18:17
I know Christmas is gone but errr... this is where better (load cell) pedals come into play (beware of the missus wolf though :D )

Iīd love to try those but it is so expansive.. and also my country charges crazy import taxes...
I even checked Rimotech site to see if they would promote black Friday... but they did not of course...

biggbaddwolf
30-12-2015, 18:24
I know this is getting into a different area, but what about downforce? I know when I raced GT6 all the time we took all downforce off of every car...

Schnizz58
30-12-2015, 18:44
I know this is getting into a different area, but what about downforce? I know when I raced GT6 all the time we took all downforce off of every car...
Very track-dependent. I try to use the least amount of downforce that I can get away with. But tracks that don't have long straights don't penalize DF as much so on those I will use it without hesitation.

On the issue of assists, I use real. If the car has the assist, why not use it? I believe that PCars is realistic enough that assists don't cost you much, if any, time and they will help with consistency.

nissan4ever
30-12-2015, 19:15
I used to use real world assists back at launch. But in my case, it was very rewarding to push a car to your/it's limit with no assists. Smiling all the way around the track :)

With practice at a circuit. You'll know exactly how hard you can push your car in control. There's nothing more rewarding than that. If you're pushing your car as hard as you can in control. There's no reason for the assists to be there.

But that's me. I know that in the real racing world, some vehicles do have assists (depends on era). As always, different strokes for different folks.

Fight-Test
30-12-2015, 21:21
assists will not make you faster or slower. They simply allow you to run on the edge with more consistency. Every racing game on console before this the assists were simply blanket aids that were not specific to the cars. Most guys that run no assist tune the car to handle more like it was when it had assists so in alot of situations its counter productive, and why in my very humble opinion realistic is the best choice. Take any GT3 driver(real life) out there, he/she will say that maybe they can get 1 to 2 more tenths out of the car without assists but it won't be as consistent as with the assist the car was designed to run with. If your running just for fun or to learn car control that's great but 45 laps into a endurance race would rather have a car that lets you stay right on the edge of control as your tires start to fall off or track temps start to drop or would you rather a car that becomes more unpredictable as your arms and mind become fatigued?

You can be out there for the challenge of driving the car and thats great. Im out there for challenge of beating all my competitors and there is no way to run a 2 to 3 hr race and do that with assists off unless we all were forced off. The other thing and this really comes down to skill but the guys that don't run assists are more prone to mistakes, losing time by simple little grip losses and accidents. Wouldn't you want to put yourself in the position to be the most consistent and efficient as possible which also provides the closest racing and reducing risk of collecting other opponents if you do lose control?

I run real assists but im not one of those guys that thinks either way about it if you are enjoying what you are doing. I think guys who think they are hardcore because they use no assists are a joke, and same for guys that abuse more assists than the car really has and brag about their speed. I prefer we just all do what we enjoy and respect what other what others do (of course this is a forum so no chance in hell of that). No assists is a challenge and may even better prepare you for real driving and guys that love that have that option in this game and thats great, just like guys that struggle have the option to turn on assist the car doesn't run naturally. Im just saying to the new guys, that yea it might be easy to drive a GT3 with no assist. But will it be easy when you 30 laps in and trying to get every last tenth out of the car while you run down the car in front in front of you or defend from a late surging opponent with fresher tires? I just wanted to bring that perspective into the discussion.

I guess my enjoyment of driving the car comes second to putting the car in the best position to win. Much like real life. Again just my opinion, don't hate me.

biggbaddwolf
30-12-2015, 22:35
assists will not make you faster or slower. They simply allow you to run on the edge with more consistency. Every racing game on console before this the assists were simply blanket aids that were not specific to the cars. Most guys that run no assist tune the car to handle more like it was when it had assists so in alot of situations its counter productive, and why in my very humble opinion realistic is the best choice. Take any GT3 driver(real life) out there, he/she will say that maybe they can get 1 to 2 more tenths out of the car without assists but it won't be as consistent as with the assist the car was designed to run with. If your running just for fun or to learn car control that's great but 45 laps into a endurance race would rather have a car that lets you stay right on the edge of control as your tires start to fall off or track temps start to drop or would you rather a car that becomes more unpredictable as your arms and mind become fatigued?

You can be out there for the challenge of driving the car and thats great. Im out there for challenge of beating all my competitors and there is no way to run a 2 to 3 hr race and do that with assists off unless we all were forced off. The other thing and this really comes down to skill but the guys that don't run assists are more prone to mistakes, losing time by simple little grip losses and accidents. Wouldn't you want to put yourself in the position to be the most consistent and efficient as possible which also provides the closest racing and reducing risk of collecting other opponents if you do lose control?

I run real assists but im not one of those guys that thinks either way about it if you are enjoying what you are doing. I think guys who think they are hardcore because they use no assists are a joke, and same for guys that abuse more assists than the car really has and brag about their speed. I prefer we just all do what we enjoy and respect what other what others do (of course this is a forum so no chance in hell of that). No assists is a challenge and may even better prepare you for real driving and guys that love that have that option in this game and thats great, just like guys that struggle have the option to turn on assist the car doesn't run naturally. Im just saying to the new guys, that yea it might be easy to drive a GT3 with no assist. But will it be easy when you 30 laps in and trying to get every last tenth out of the car while you run down the car in front in front of you or defend from a late surging opponent with fresher tires? I just wanted to bring that perspective into the discussion.

I guess my enjoyment of driving the car comes second to putting the car in the best position to win. Much like real life. Again just my opinion, don't hate me.
I certainly don't hate you, or anyone because of their settings in a game..LOL..Each person should go with whatever works for them. I have gotten a lot of enjoyment of playing racing games, from back in the Atari 2600 days..remember that system? LOL They have gotten tons better with each new system, but at the end of the day it is just a game :D

jeffdcox68
31-12-2015, 03:14
Hey guys, my first post. I've been reading the forum since patch 5 and have over 200 hrs race time, so I know some of you guys a little already, kind of. Anyway I've gone for total immersion, that's to say helmet view with motion, minimum hud display and real assists on. However recently driving the W Motors Lykan Hypersport car I noticed it had stability control. Now IRL I'd want all the assists on to prevent damaging a hyper expensive car with diamonds in the headlights that's for sure, but this being a racing game is this one assist to far? I'd really like to hear your views on the stability control assist, before I invest too much time on set ups and driving style, cheers.

poirqc
31-12-2015, 03:29
Well, i drive with every in game assist off, beside the hud.

The only assist the i leave on are the real car assists. I figured, if it comes with it, from the factory, why not leave it there.

As for suggestion, do it your way. You're the master of you domain!

luv2drive
31-12-2015, 06:27
Speaking of "Stability Control", I was also wondering, "What is it?" I'm new to PCars, but I've played GT5/6 and don't remember anything that seems equivalent.

hkraft300
31-12-2015, 08:10
Stability control modulates brakes and throttle to stop it under/oversteering. Traction control only limits torque output to driven wheels by limiting throttle/applying brakes.
SC, basically when it can, stops you spinning around, so your car feels planted.
Not sure how it works in pcars. Similar, perhaps?
SC is about the only assist I'd keep off. Its a safety net that doesn't punish poor technique.
I personally don't use any assists: especially when I tune a car. If it drives well with no assists, its even better with it.
I've been caught unawares in not assist lobbies and made a hash of it. Now I'm able to run in all/real/no assists.
Plus, personally I like to learn the car and its nuances without it being masked.

ahmedo
31-12-2015, 11:21
really glad to have asked the primal question. Read all the answers and I see that there's no definite answer. I guess I'll have to do some practicing on my own and see what works best for me. First I'll try no assists. Let's see how it goes. Happy ny to all :cool:

hkraft300
31-12-2015, 12:44
I found ABS the hardest to turn off and learn to drive without. Learn the threshold, reduce the brake pressure (car settings), play with the bias.
Rear biased brakes will really want to snap around on you if you get it wrong, but once mastered you'll get better feel on turn-in and learn to be kind on the tyres but still be quick.

GrimeyDog
31-12-2015, 13:21
I have Never Played a Racing Sim that the Assist felt Natural... For Me the Assist Slow Me Down and My Lap Times suffer using them...I Like to Feather the Gas and Throttle Steer in Some Corners.

For Me as Far as PCars the Assist Directley affect the SoP Feel Because i Cant Feel when the Rear of the Car is stepping out and i Need to use throttle control to get it back to Straight which causes me to lose time... Yes there are times when i get in too Deep and Cant Save it and spin out... It happens... but thats what Practic is for. jmt

Fight-Test
31-12-2015, 14:35
I have Never Played a Racing Sim that the Assist felt Natural... For Me the Assist Slow Me Down and My Lap Times suffer using them...I Like to Feather the Gas and Throttle Steer in Some Corners.

For Me as Far as PCars the Assist Directley affect the SoP Feel Because i Cant Feel when the Rear of the Car is stepping out and i Need to use throttle control to get it back to Straight which causes me to lose time... Yes there are times when i get in too Deep and Cant Save it and spi... It happens... but thats what Practic is for. jmt

thats interesting grimey, I wonder how much ffb plays into using assists. You shouldn't be faster or slower with assists if your practiced up on both. This has actually peaked my interest some, I use some of haidens old ffb settings from the summer and they are still lightening fast but set up for using TC and ABS. I use the 66% because like you I want to feel the rear, especially since I mostly drive gt3. This is interesting as the ffb plot always thickens.

One thing to add is that on this patch the tires are messed up obviously so testing is kinda pointless but on 6.0 I was struggling keeping the rears on the audi cool even with meds on. I spoke with jussi and he said to try and turn TC down (giving me more traction) to help the tires. I went from running about 15 laps at brno at 3x wear to 30. I would normally run TC at 10 or 11 in audi (3 when in the rain) but he said try 4 or 5 and my tire life shot up. I was able to run in a 30 lap race at brno at 3x wear with softs on front and meds on rear and run the entire race. Unheard of with 6.0. THe rest of guys were running soft/soft and pitted twice (lap 10 and 20) except the Aston GTE as it pitted once with its superior tire wear. I finished 3rd, i was running a couple seconds off pace by the end but if I had run soft/soft and pitted twice I would of finished 6th to 7th. So alot of things to consider with assists when running endurance races.

hkraft300
31-12-2015, 14:50
Pcars abs is said to run at about 600Hz which is 10x better than RL essentially.
If assists are limiting tyre stress, maybe you have less FFB feel because the tyres aren't "doing" as much?

RomKnight
31-12-2015, 14:52
What I said.. too efficient.

Fight-Test
31-12-2015, 14:54
I found ABS the hardest to turn off and learn to drive without. Learn the threshold, reduce the brake pressure (car settings), play with the bias.
Rear biased brakes will really want to snap around on you if you get it wrong, but once mastered you'll get better feel on turn-in and learn to be kind on the tyres but still be quick.

Using a load cell I also have to lower pressure by 20 by default then play from there. I don't have much issue with the Audi with no abs but the damn z4 with no abs is a handful because you have to drive that car so hard.

hkraft300
31-12-2015, 15:00
Using a load cell I also have to lower pressure by 20 by default then play from there. I don't have much issue with the Audi with no abs but the damn z4 with no abs is a handful because you have to drive that car so hard.

There are guys running abs and 95%+ pressure, braking 1.5-2 car lengths deeper at every corner in GT3. With no abs that's lockup from 200+kmh and having to back off a lot. My brake pressures are ~85% depending on car, df etc. I'm losing a few tenths just on the brakes at almost every corner.

RomKnight
31-12-2015, 15:03
I used the cspv2 and now have the cswv3. Brake pressure usually between 80 and 100.

/edit

obviously... cspv3 not csw

hkraft300
31-12-2015, 15:07
I used the cspv2 and now have the cswv3. Brake pressure usually between 80 and 100.

I have the L2 trigger button on my DS4 controller ;)
A G29 has been approved by The Wife.

beetes_juice
31-12-2015, 15:15
I have the L2 trigger button on my DS4 controller ;)
A G29 has been approved by The Wife.

GREEN, GREEN, GREEN!

GrimeyDog
31-12-2015, 15:28
thats interesting grimey, I wonder how much ffb plays into using assists. You shouldn't be faster or slower with assists if your practiced up on both. This has actually peaked my interest some, I use some of haidens old ffb settings from the summer and they are still lightening fast but set up for using TC and ABS. I use the 66% because like you I want to feel the rear, especially since I mostly drive gt3. This is interesting as the ffb plot always thickens.

One thing to add is that on this patch the tires are messed up obviously so testing is kinda pointless but on 6.0 I was struggling keeping the rears on the audi cool even with meds on. I spoke with jussi and he said to try and turn TC down (giving me more traction) to help the tires. I went from running about 15 laps at brno at 3x wear to 30. I would normally run TC at 10 or 11 in audi (3 when in the rain) but he said try 4 or 5 and my tire life shot up. I was able to run in a 30 lap race at brno at 3x wear with softs on front and meds on rear and run the entire race. Unheard of with 6.0. THe rest of guys were running soft/soft and pitted twice (lap 10 and 20) except the Aston GTE as it pitted once with its superior tire wear. I finished 3rd, i was running a couple seconds off pace by the end but if I had run soft/soft and pitted twice I would of finished 6th to 7th. So alot of things to consider with assists when running endurance races.
My FFB Tweek Felt Better on 6.0 for Me it was Spot on!!! 7.0 it feels Good Now also and i dont Have to big a problem to keep the Tires Hot... I just had to adapt to the New Tire Model... 7.0 Lap times are about the same i just Have to Push the Car Harder in Different Track sections that with 6.0 i Needed to Slow Down... Im Running Laguna Seca 1:23.2xx and Watkins Glen GP 1:43.1xx in the Gt3 Ruff with a Stock Suspention No Assist so lap times have Not Suffered once i Readjusted My Driving Lines
I Never Had a Problem on 6.0 with Tire Heat or Wear...I have Raced 10 Lap Races at Watkins Glen GP with 7x Tire were on with every Lap besides the First Lap paced between 1:44.5xx to 1:45.5xxx... Im Mad the Saved Replays are Not working i would post the Videos.... I Guess it comes down to Driving Style.

Without Assist on i Can Brake Harder and Faster plus accelerate Faster and Harder than when using Assist...
TCS Cuts Throttle Power to avoid wheel Spin.
ABS Pulses the Brakes so the Braking is Not Direct Braking and you can end up slowing Down More than you Need to.
Stabiliy Control Trys to Stop the Car From Sliding By Killing the Power/Throttle and also Blocks out Most SoP Feel so you dont Know what the Rear end is Doing...Knowing what the Rear end is doing allows Me to Throttle Steer and Push the Car to the edge of Grip Limits.
When you take into account these factors No Assist can be Much faster depending on Driver.... Ex: if i can accelerate .250 faster out of every corner by the time i hit 4 corners that adds up to 1 full Second!!! by the end of a 8 lap Race that .250 every corner the end result is a Huge Gap!!!

I have been driving No Assist for years so i Have a Light Throttle/Braking Foot... I dont think the V3 pedals are Hurting anything thouh...LOL

Fight-Test
31-12-2015, 15:34
There are guys running abs and 95%+ pressure, braking 1.5-2 car lengths deeper at every corner in GT3. With no abs that's lockup from 200+kmh and having to back off a lot. My brake pressures are ~85% depending on car, df etc. I'm losing a few tenths just on the brakes at almost every corner.

That sounds about right. I run 100% with abs on with no issues. 80% max when off but the load cell proably plays into that.

Haiden
31-12-2015, 15:36
I'm playing the game on ps4 with t300rs and I use Jack Spade's FFB classic settings. Which one do you guys think is better? Assists on or off?



I guess my enjoyment of driving the car comes second to putting the car in the best position to win. Much like real life. Again just my opinion, don't hate me.

Kind of the same logic as Flight-Test. I don't really get the blanket, "No Assists" argument. To me, the best option is whatever more closely sims reality, which is why I have assists set to Real, and keep ABS and TC mapped to a keypad. I don't use any assists when driving open wheel, not sure any actually utilize them anyway. I use ABS in the GT and Road classes, but keep TC off. I only use TC in the GT and Road classes when it's raining. On a dry track, TC just gets in the way.

Fight-Test
31-12-2015, 15:38
My FFB Tweek Felt Better on 6.0 for Me it was Spot on!!! 7.0 it feels Good Now also and i dont Have to big a problem to keep the Tires Hot... I just had to adapt to the New Tire Model... 7.0 Lap times are about the same i just Have to Push the Car Harder in Different Track sections that with 6.0 i Needed to Slow Down... Im Running Laguna Seca 1:23.2xx and Watkins Glen GP 1:43.1xx in the Gt3 Ruff with a Stock Suspention No Assist so lap times have Not Suffered once i Readjusted My Driving Lines
I Never Had a Problem on 6.0 with Tire Heat or Wear...I have Raced 10 Lap Races at Watkins Glen GP with 7x Tire were on with every Lap besides the First Lap paced between 1:44.5xx to 1:45.5xxx... Im Mad the Saved Replays are Not working i would post the Videos.... I Guess it comes down to Driving Style.

Without TCS on i Can Brake Better and accelerate better than when using Assist...
TCS Cuts Throttle Power to avoid wheel Spin.
ABS Pulses the Brakes so the Braking is Not Direct Braking and you can end up slowing Down More than you Need to.
Stabiliy Control Trys to Stop the Car From Sliding By Killing the Power/Throttle and also Blocks out Most SoP Feel so you dont Know what the Rear end is Doing...Knowing what the Rear end is doing allows Me to Push the Car to the edge of Grip Limits.

I have been driving No Assist for years so i Have a Light Throttle/Braking Foot... I dont think the V3 pedals are Hurting anything thouh...LOL

I find that in gt3 on 7. No prob getting to temp just no repercussions for pushing as hard as u can. I can get rears on audi hot with softs but still no real did vantage like 6.0. 6.0 had issues with gt3 temp spikes. It's was very problematic in league play. Controller guys didn't stand a chance and I would get 12 to 15 degree spikes in some corners as way everyone else. The heat made tires fall off way to soon.

I ran some fc last night with default tune and fronts never went over 70 so seems the gt3's are ok right now but there is unrealistic over driving and the other cars suffer from not enough heat. Seems the lmps get to temp right now but like gt3 don't overheat properly.

Hopefully the next patch gets all this sorted. I feel like any progress right now is pointless till they fix it.

Schnizz58
31-12-2015, 15:49
I feel like any progress right now is pointless till they fix it.
Yeah, that's sorta where I'm at too. If it's the middle of the day and sunny I can keep the tires in the mid-80's in an LMP1. If it's cloudy, the fronts are usually in the 70's and the rears are in the low 80's. And I have to lower the pressure quite a bit just to do that.

GrimeyDog
31-12-2015, 16:08
There are guys running abs and 95%+ pressure, braking 1.5-2 car lengths deeper at every corner in GT3. With no abs that's lockup from 200+kmh and having to back off a lot. My brake pressures are ~85% depending on car, df etc. I'm losing a few tenths just on the brakes at almost every corner.

Im using the V3 pedals and set My BrF to 100 i want Maximum Brake sensitivity... I Drive the Cars Stock Suspension so what ever the cars Brake psi or balnce is i leave it there... i dont have any problem with Bakes Locking up... i also use Astro A40 headphones so i can Hear the Tires when they are just at the brink of Lock up but by then its time to get off the brakes any way.... Same Rule for throttle Control to avoid Spinning out...it just takes practice but once you get used to it its Feels Natural and you just Know when to Push or Back off.

Haiden
31-12-2015, 16:28
There are guys running abs and 95%+ pressure, braking 1.5-2 car lengths deeper at every corner in GT3. With no abs that's lockup from 200+kmh and having to back off a lot. My brake pressures are ~85% depending on car, df etc. I'm losing a few tenths just on the brakes at almost every corner.

Yep. In GT classes, almost all my cars are set to 95% pressure. But I'm not much of a trail braker. I think that also influences driver preference. But softer pressures allow for more fine control in the corner. At 95%, I brake hard, and then turn in with whatever I got.

RomKnight
31-12-2015, 17:13
Yep. In GT classes, almost all my cars are set to 95% pressure. But I'm not much of a trail braker. I think that also influences driver preference.

without abs, i'm dead certain about it.

MLT24
31-12-2015, 17:40
Any sim racing game I buy I never turn a single assist on. I use T300rs and I want the most out of the game as possible.

ProDriver
31-12-2015, 18:20
I use to play with real assist, cuz is the best way to play IMO and the most realistic one...why do U use NO ABS if the car in the real life, in the real competition has???

Haiden
31-12-2015, 19:02
I use to play with real assist, cuz is the best way to play IMO and the most realistic one...why do U use NO ABS if the car in the real life, in the real competition has???

^^This. In real life you wouldn't make things harder on yourself, at least I don't see why you would in competition. :) I could see no assists being fun in TT, though, adding some additional challenge to it.

RomKnight
31-12-2015, 19:30
I use to play with real assist, cuz is the best way to play IMO and the most realistic one...why do U use NO ABS if the car in the real life, in the real competition has???

because, first, it is not nearly as fun :) this is the i preferring a rwd instead of fwd kind of argument lol

2nd, as talked with some pro drivers mostly used for wet weather. for tuning the car off gives better sense of what the car can do. some even leave it off for quali. for the race is usually a low value and you can see that lockups do happen.

3rd - in pcars, as written already, is too efficient.

hkraft300
01-01-2016, 00:06
I use to play with real assist, cuz is the best way to play IMO and the most realistic one...why do U use NO ABS if the car in the real life, in the real competition has???

Because this:


because, first, it is not nearly as fun :) this is the i preferring a rwd instead of fwd kind of argument lol

2nd, as talked with some pro drivers mostly used for wet weather. for tuning the car off gives better sense of what the car can do. some even leave it off for quali. for the race is usually a low value and you can see that lockups do happen.

3rd - in pcars, as written already, is too efficient.

And...
What I'm losing on the brakes at entry, I'm gaining mid-corner and exit. So the deficit isn't nearly as bad.
My bias is set as far back as I can safely get away with (on some high power cars that cook the rears, I have it forward a little to balance the temp), which means minimal load on the fronts. This gives me better turn-in and the car is more keen to rotate. Kind of a mild/slight trail-brake. I get less under steer through and out of the corner.
No assists also allows the car to do what I want it to do, exactly when and where. Yes I'm wasting braking potential by not being at peak longitudinal grip for braking. But if that's where I'm at (abs + max brake pressure), I have no grip available for lateral movements. Ref: "grip" / acceleration circle.

So many times racing guys of similar pace and same car at a track they've drafted me and out braked me at entry, took the position mid-corner, but while they're fighting to keep the nose turned (they're ABS-ing), I slip past them on exit on the inside because I could take a tighter line and get on the gas sooner.

Plus I have the flexibility to run in any lobby. If the lobby forces real, I barely trigger the assists AFAIK. If the lobby forces no assists, I'm still running strong. I'm nice to my tyres even on a pad :)
If you don't know how to drive without the assists, how do you fare in older cars that didn't have them? Or do you just avoid driving them?

Haiden
01-01-2016, 15:00
Because this:
If you don't know how to drive without the assists, how do you fare in older cars that didn't have them? Or do you just avoid driving them?

I think quite a few people here do know how to drive without them, which is why they set it to Real--some cars are using it, some aren't. It's more about preference and driving style.

hkraft300
01-01-2016, 23:01
I think quite a few people here do know how to drive without them, which is why they set it to Real--some cars are using it, some aren't. It's more about preference and driving style.

Which is not a bad thing by any means.
Does running real assists makes modern vs period racers feel all that little bit more polarising? In terms of feel and the technology gap?

Haiden
01-01-2016, 23:51
Which is not a bad thing by any means.
Does running real assists makes modern vs period racers feel all that little bit more polarising? In terms of feel and the technology gap?

I'm not sure what you mean by gap. I drive the classic cars just fine without ABS or TC. I can drive GTs without ABS, as well. I just choose not to, and only use TC in the rain. In fact, until PCars, I always played Forza with no assists. But after I saw the Real setting in PCars and heard numerous professional drivers talk about running high brake pressure and using ABS in GT classes, the assists or no assists in sims just seemed like a silly debate over personal preference.

hkraft300
02-01-2016, 00:07
It is a silly debate considering a) its a game and b) pcars has race cars that actually use these assists.
What I mean by technology gap is how different an older car feels because of no aids vs a modern racer with aids.
Aids or not, to me, the older cars need a lot more finesse and TLC than the newer stuff that can be thrown about. The older cars feel they need more respect. The newer ones have much better suspension and tyres; throw aids on top and they can be driven hard and rough.
Lady vs tramp, so to speak? ;)

Haiden
02-01-2016, 06:10
It is a silly debate considering a) its a game and b) pcars has race cars that actually use these assists.
What I mean by technology gap is how different an older car feels because of no aids vs a modern racer with aids.
Aids or not, to me, the older cars need a lot more finesse and TLC than the newer stuff that can be thrown about. The older cars feel they need more respect. The newer ones have much better suspension and tyres; throw aids on top and they can be driven hard and rough.
Lady vs tramp, so to speak? ;)

There are race cars/professional drivers in RL that use them, too. So why is it silly to find it in-game?

hkraft300
02-01-2016, 10:04
There are race cars/professional drivers in RL that use them, too. So why is it silly to find it in-game?

Sorry, I should've been clear. I agree with you.
I meant assist vs no assist is a silly debate because they are used in RL and pcars simulates it.
Older cars don't have assists, but if you're on a gamepad and its difficult without assists (even though the real car doesn't have them), but you want to experience them in a sim, why should'nt you?

Haiden
02-01-2016, 14:42
Sorry, I should've been clear. I agree with you.
I meant assist vs no assist is a silly debate because they are used in RL and pcars simulates it.
Older cars don't have assists, but if you're on a gamepad and its difficult without assists (even though the real car doesn't have them), but you want to experience them in a sim, why should'nt you?

Ah, I get it now. Yep I totally agree. I love that the old cars are harder to handle. It makes them really fun to drive, at least to me. I don't criticize anyone for using assists. There was a time when I used them all around too (Forza 1 and 2). I had to, because I couldn't drive or enjoy the game without them. Somewhere near the end of FM2, I started to get into tuning, and then slowly started removing the assists. I played FM3-5 with no assists. PCars made me rethink that and appreciate Real Assists. They made it easy. In Forza, you have to keep turning it on and off manually depending on the car, and assuming you know whether the car uses them or not. ABS is the only assist I use in FM6, and just for the GT and road classes. PCars gives you a global setting that adjusts assists per car, and then also lets you map the on/off controls to buttons. It's so much easier to utilize.

hkraft300
02-01-2016, 23:00
Its fantastic.
But I am a proponent of no assist. Even the newer stuff, GT3 and LMP1 cars, are fun to drive with no assist. They have the grip and aero to not really need it.
I was at Road America in the Ruf GT3 down pit straight pulling in 4 cars: a Z4, M3 and 2 McLarens, drafting my way and moved inside. The cars blocked my view of the brake marker and I completely overshot. Flew up the inside, kicked the Ruf sideways and bounced off the kerb a little at turn 1 (probably would've smashed my rims in RL lol). The other guys made their way through as I slid sideways into the run off, but stayed on the tarmac by inches. Back on the gas and barely kept it pointing straight and rejoined the track to catch the group at turn 2. Heart in mouth moment. No incident. Not sure I could've done it with assists on.
Endurance racing and bad weather is another matter: it gets frustrating when tyres get cold and under-inflated at dusk, if your setup is off and/or you're mid-stint. We're not pro's after all.

Tomcul
03-01-2016, 18:35
Assists set to real but hot keys to turn them off best of both. I always turn them off if the car has that option for real. But driving a mclaren p1 it's going to have abs with no option to turn it off same with a lot of the road cars..(I know they can always be turned off but not by everyone)
I think it's good to experience the different eras of cars too makes you adapt your driving to suit many different situations.
But if the real assist option didn't exist I too would run no assists for all..

biggbaddwolf
03-01-2016, 19:27
We're not pro's after all.
I thought anyone who bought a racing game was a pro?!?!? LOL Just kidding!~

poirqc
04-01-2016, 01:35
I thought anyone who bought a racing game was a pro?!?!? LOL Just kidding!~

I don't about you guys, but i'm a PRO (https://www.google.ca/search?q=promite&biw=1652&bih=950&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiRz5T2j4_KAhUDKh4KHW_ZAjQQ_AUIBygB) :cool:

Salty Dog
04-01-2016, 15:37
braking assist slows you right down thats for sure lol

Equation
04-01-2016, 20:52
Assist off. Manual shifting. Helmet cam. First it feels hard, but after training these feels normal.

hkraft300
04-01-2016, 23:00
Assist off. Manual shifting. Helmet cam. First it feels hard, but after training these feels normal.

For those with a H-box, do you switch to the paddles and/or sequential stick shift (like rally car) according to the car? Eg going from a 60's H-box to a 90's seq (CLK-LM or V12 LMR) then to paddleshift for the new stuff...

Shanasman450
05-01-2016, 00:25
Up until forza 4 I'd always used abs, tc, and stability control, and braking only on the guide line. When forza 4 hit the shelf I turned abs off but that's it. With pcars I finally jumped in with all assists off. Totally different experience.

jeffdcox68
05-01-2016, 00:44
Yeah definitely, it adds to the immersion factor. Also using the h pattern for a modern racing car with paddles would cost you too much time as the h pattern takes longer especially if your using the clutch. When I first try out a car I haven't driven the first thing I check is the driver by going to chase cam look behind and then change gear to see his movements, so if he's using paddles you can see his fingers move rather than the full arm movement to change with h pattern.

hkraft300
05-01-2016, 01:22
Think there may be a list on this forum somewhere of shift mechanism of the cars in game.
There's also Google. Google knows all.
If I had a wheel I'll use the paddle shifters for appropriate cars and the H-shifter for whatever uses it.
Can't wait to get a wheel: auto-clutch is horrible.

jeffdcox68
06-01-2016, 00:19
Seen the list thanks. Can you not map the clutch to a button on your controler? Good luck getting a wheel set up, I use fanatec products myself.

hkraft300
06-01-2016, 00:30
Seen the list thanks. Can you not map the clutch to a button on your controler? Good luck getting a wheel set up, I use fanatec products myself.

I could swap the handbrake for clutch. On take-off auto clutch is fine. Even when I'm driving h-pattern cars.
What irks me is sequential/paddle-shift cars that you're not supposed to clutch to shift. There's a massive rev-spike in most LMP (1,2,900), GT1, GT3, Formula cars when you flat shift. I have to lift between shifts to not get the spike.
Its like the game simulates the gearbox clutch action OK, but slowly, but its not cutting the throttle/ignition enough between shifts or the timing is off.

Edit: looking at a G29 and maybe Fanatec if I can find a set on special :)

ChrisK
06-01-2016, 01:56
^^This. In real life you wouldn't make things harder on yourself, at least I don't see why you would in competition. :) I could see no assists being fun in TT, though, adding some additional challenge to it.

I agree with you mostly. I run real assists when I'm racing but I actually turn TC off cos I hate it. I find it too frustrating driving gt3 for example without ABS. some cars seem to be fine, others are horrible to drive. The merc touring3 or whatever it's called you can run with no assists at all and it's easy to drive, just back the brakes down to 80% and you barely ever lock up.

Where this debate gets unstuck is when arrogant racing car driver wannabe's try and make judgements on people based on the assists they use. For me, it's about preference. I don't use TC not cos I'm trying to beat my chest and tell people how good I am, but it's cos I think I'm faster without it and I prefer to drive without it. If others want to drive with every assist under the sun on I could care less and think no less of them for doing so.

As an interesting side note, when the game first came out you could run public lobbies set to no assists and full damage and generally get more experienced drivers and still get a full lobby to race. Not anymore though. You try setting up a no assist room now and you'll be lucky to get 3 people in it.

Sum Dixon-Ear
06-01-2016, 02:18
Where this debate gets unstuck...

Do you understand the concept of irony?

Just a wee bit?

Even slightly?

Maybe?

;)

hkraft300
06-01-2016, 02:27
Reckon the assist vs no assist divide has been bridged a little by this title, with its "Real" option.
Previous titles, at least on console had made the cars slower with assists. Though the newer cars that do have assists have so much grip I feel under normal circumstances there's enough grip to barely trigger them. Adverse weather/endurance races do bring a need for it. Its not like we have a lineup of codrivers to jump in! Or a pit crew to make minor setup adjustments mid-race.
In any case, RL racers use them so who are we? That said: play how you want.
True though that turning off assists in public lobbies doesn't discourage wreckers. Maybe some are staying offline or turned away by the tyre bungle with patch 7. Hopefully they return for some good racing.

ChrisK
06-01-2016, 02:34
Do you understand the concept of irony?

Just a wee bit?

Even slightly?

Maybe?

;)

I'm sure you think you have a point there.

jeffdcox68
06-01-2016, 07:25
Hkraft300. I could be wrong but please give it a go, try turning the automatic clutch off when driving cars with sequential gearboxes, as these are already automatic. You might need the clutch button though for starting races and after stalling to re start the engine-during a race or practice run. I never use the handbrake, actually I don't think it works not last time I tried anyway.

hkraft300
06-01-2016, 12:34
Maybe you're right; auto-clutch acting between shifts when its not supposed to on flat-shift cars.
Will give it a go.
Handbrake does work on cars so equipped. Some race cars eg open wheel / lmp maybe don't exactly have or need handbrakes