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View Full Version : Just bought Project Cars for PC...coming from PCARS on XBONE...



TrackDayKC
10-01-2016, 12:40
First off i want to say....WHAT IN THE HELL HAVE I BEEN MISSING? This sim is fricking brilliant on PC. And im even using the same Xbox One controller that i wanted to drop kick thru multiple walls trying to get it to play right on the XB1 version of this sim. Seriously..it is like night and day. First off i was blown away at how much better it looks. I had EVERYTHING turned on, and was easily near 100 fps doing hotlaps at any venue. All good so far, so i did a quick race weekend and maxxed out the AI (30+ cars) and went to the old Hockenheim. FPS was still at 60~fps! That alone re-sold me on this sim. Hell, i may even buy a wheel now. I had recently built a fantastic CPU rig, but had kind of forgotten about PCars on PC due to i had it on XBOne. Since i run dual monitors, i tracked down vrHive for telemetry and was also pleasantly surprised that the pCars Dash android app that i have on my Nexus tablet also works for the PC version. So bonus there!

Very happy racer! i even did a few online laps last night, which i never even attempted to on XBOne. LOTS of people playing online to my surprise. This sim is NOT dead. Not by a longshot!

Heres my computer specs:

Motherboard: MSI ATX DDR3 2600 LGA 1150 Motherboards Z97-G45 GAMING
CPU: Intel Core i5-4690K Processor 3.5 GHz LGA 1150 (overclocked to 4.0GHz)
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO - CPU Cooler with 120mm PWM Fan
System RAM: Kingston HyperX FURY 8GB Kit (2x4GB) 1866MHz DDR3 CL10 DIMM (X2 for a total of 16gb)
Graphics Card: MSI Computer Graphics Cards GTX 960 GAMING 4GB
Storage 1: Samsung 850 EVO 500 GB mSATA 2-Inch SSD (for the OS and important stuff)
Storage 2: WD Black 4TB Performance Desktop Hard Disk Drive - 7200 RPM SATA 6 Gb/s 64MB Cache 3.5 Inch
Power Supply: EVGA SuperNOVA 850 G2 80+ GOLD, 850W ECO Mode Fully Modular
Case: NZXT Noctis 450 Mid Tower case CA-N450W-M1 Matte Black

All in all about $1500 worth of parts and i have a rig that can run damn near anything. But right now all i can do is play PCars. So very happy with how it "plays" on PC. I hope they eek out a bit more content before PCars 2.

BullWinkle
10-01-2016, 12:55
When you do have an opportunity to get a wheel..,you'l be using the "WHAT IN THE HELL HAVE I BEEN MISSING?" phrase again.;)

Umer Ahmad
10-01-2016, 13:30
you must buy a wheel

TrackDayKC
10-01-2016, 13:41
Ok next question...Is there a PC wheel available for around $100? There is no way i can get away with spending $300 plus on one of those fancy ones.

Roger Prynne
10-01-2016, 13:44
Have a look at second hand ones first.

poirqc
10-01-2016, 14:02
While not the best, G27 kit are affordable. Like others said, a used kit would be a very good option too.

If you buy a wheel, say goodbye to your social life!

Roger Prynne
10-01-2016, 14:20
Just had a quick look around the interweb and can't really find a good second hand wheel for $100

There is a few on the UK eBay for the G25/27, but that does not help you much as the shipping would be horrendous.

Blunt RS
10-01-2016, 14:28
Thankyou for the review TrackDayKC.
More and more I read about PC's make me realise Xbox One isn't up to job of running this awesome game. Project Cars should be PC only imo.

morpwr
10-01-2016, 14:35
Thankyou for the review TrackDayKC.
More and more I read about PC's make me realise Xbox One isn't up to job of running this awesome game. Project Cars should be PC only imo.

I just set up my sons wheel on xbox and couldn't believe the problems I saw in just a few hours of playing I have never seen on ps4. Made me glad I stuck with sony .

chaozbandit
10-01-2016, 19:13
If you were impressed by vrHive, then the Project CARS profiler will blow you away with it's telemetry displaying abilities. Of course it takes a while to configure all the modules, but it's so worth it (coming from somebody who also runs it on a second monitor).

http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?23284-pCARS-Profiler-(Telemetry-amp-Analysis)-PC-ONLY-v1-6

Plato99
10-01-2016, 19:44
Thankyou for the review TrackDayKC.
More and more I read about PC's make me realise Xbox One isn't up to job of running this awesome game. Project Cars should be PC only imo.

There's my nomination for "Elitist PC Remark Of The Day".

Azure Flare
10-01-2016, 19:59
I did a similar thing. Had the PS4 version, then switched to the PC. I was impressed by how much better it looks and how much better it runs. Holding a steady 60+ FPS on very nearly max settings. (just a couple of things I don't use) I was more happy that I can actually use my sequential shifter without having to map it.


There's my nomination for "Elitist PC Remark Of The Day".

He has a point, the game doesn't run that well on the consoles because they just don't have the power to make it look as good as it should.

ermo
10-01-2016, 20:24
First off i want to say....WHAT IN THE HELL HAVE I BEEN MISSING? This sim is fricking brilliant on PC. And im even using the same Xbox One controller that i wanted to drop kick thru multiple walls trying to get it to play right on the XB1 version of this sim. Seriously..it is like night and day.

This sounds interesting.

Could you perhaps try to put into words how the experience is different re. controllabity/playability? Why did you want to drop kick your XBone controller through multiple walls when using it w/XBone but not when using it with your PC?

Inquiring minds would like to know. :)

Umer Ahmad
10-01-2016, 20:31
Dont buy a $100 wheel, not worth it after 6 months. Save for something better. If you're serious about project cars then dump the xbox1 and use the sales proceeds for the wheel.

Invincible
10-01-2016, 20:48
Dont buy a $100 wheel, not worth it after 6 months. Save for something better. If you're serious about project cars then dump the xbox1 and use the sales proceeds for the wheel.

I'm pretty sure that he still has other games he'd like to play on his xbone. So selling it isn't really an option..

z3r0cool77
10-01-2016, 21:04
Haven't been able to get this question answered any where else but you seem to be the perfect person to answer it. Does the Xbone controller still have all the FFB function when used with a PC? Asking because I too play on xbone and have been thinking about getting the PC version but I'm still going to be stuck using an xbox controller for a while to come so if the rumble triggers and such don't work on pc I'll likely just stick w console until a wheel is something I can afford.

TrackDayKC
10-01-2016, 21:06
Well, i knew something good was going to happen when i first started the sim and it loaded up to menu in less than half the time it takes it to do it on the XB1. Next good sign is that it it accepted my XB1 controller from the get go and moving thru the menus was basically the same as XB1. (although snappier) Now my experience with the XB1 version of PCars has always felt like the cars were riding on ice and it was only a matter of time before i would end up veering off into a wall or something. It got so frustrating at times. For my purposes, i used Forza 6 as a reference point. I could take any car in that game and drive it flat out and always feel like i had control. With PCars, i always felt like there was something behind the scenes not wanting me to survive 1 lap. Now i know some of you will say "well thats because Forza 6 is a kids game and dumbs things down" BUT coming from a console perspective, it was really the only other game around to judge PCars by.

But once i started doing lap in the PC version, i could see the difference was like night and day. Maybe it is the higher framerate i am achieving with the PC version, it has time behind the scenes to model my inputs better. Whereas in the XB1 version, it is doing all it can just to render the game visuals. I feel like i have control now, even on the higher end cars now. On XB1, i would generally stick with GT4, 5, Formula Gulf and Rookie. Because anything faster than that and it was just an exercise in frustration for me.

Im glad i didnt give up on this sim. This is one steam purchase that will see some hours logged.

TrackDayKC
10-01-2016, 21:09
Yes FFB is there, although i have it quieted down alot on the controller config

djbuzz07
10-01-2016, 21:17
If you were impressed by vrHive, then the Project CARS profiler will blow you away with it's telemetry displaying abilities. Of course it takes a while to configure all the modules, but it's so worth it (coming from somebody who also runs it on a second monitor).

http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?23284-pCARS-Profiler-(Telemetry-amp-Analysis)-PC-ONLY-v1-6

I second Project CARS profiler, also pcars dash is good if you have a tablet or phone for live data.

I also pay on both XB1 and PC, PC is so much better.

A wheel will blow you away!

DreamsKnight
10-01-2016, 21:20
pc users arent stupid. ;)

Roger Prynne
10-01-2016, 21:38
^^^ Speak for yourself, because I'm as stupid as they come :stupid:

fancyPants
10-01-2016, 21:49
Dont buy a $100 wheel, not worth it after 6 months. Save for something better. If you're serious about project cars then dump the xbox1 and use the sales proceeds for the wheel.

My first and only wheel so far is the Logitech Driving Force GT. Using it for about 2 years now and I'm still more than happy. Sure, it has no clutch and just a sequential shifter (that I never really use), but the feeling is still great. Yorkie065 also recommends it, so at least I'm not the only one :) Not sure what I paid for it (150 maybe?), but I had a quick look now and you can get used ones for 100 here in Germany.

DayGlow
10-01-2016, 21:53
Look for a G27 used or on a deal. Good midrange wheel and I've never had issues with any Logitech products. I can't think of one that had failed on me. Only ever replaced by something newer amd shinier.

My G27 is going on 5 years and still strong.

Kroegtijgertje
10-01-2016, 21:55
My first and only wheel so far is the Logitech Driving Force GT. Using it for about 2 years now and I'm still more than happy. Sure, it has no clutch and just a sequential shifter (that I never really use), but the feeling is still great. Yorkie065 also recommends it, so at least I'm not the only one :) Not sure what I paid for it (150€ maybe?), but I had a quick look now and you can get used ones for 100€ here in Germany.

€60 - €75 in Holland ;)

z3r0cool77
10-01-2016, 21:56
Yes FFB is there, although i have it quieted down alot on the controller config

The triggers as well or just the main motors?

Lewis Puppy
10-01-2016, 22:06
Take a look at what I've got in my signature.

John Hargreaves
10-01-2016, 22:10
pc users arent stupid. ;)

I am :o

bmanic
10-01-2016, 22:18
Dont buy a $100 wheel, not worth it after 6 months. Save for something better. If you're serious about project cars then dump the xbox1 and use the sales proceeds for the wheel.

A logitech G25/G27 or even a DFGT is a HUGE step up from a controller. If he can find one for around 100$ then I'd say it's very well worth it. Remember, not that many years ago the G series of wheels were "top of the line" in the consumer space (there were Frex and other high-end wheels already then but nothing like the Fanatec/Thrustmaster onslaught that we have now).

I raced my DFGT for years and I still think it is an absolutely excellent wheel.

beetes_juice
10-01-2016, 22:28
I just did the same thing over the past month.

It is a night and day difference between XB1 and PC versions of the game. Completely different game. Besides the stunning graphics and monster FPS :o steering on the wheel is buttery smooth using the same wheel configuration; can catch slides with more accuracy is the first thing I noticed. Pedal input is more precise; going through the same motions in pedal config the pc versions reads out different dead zones compared to XB1 version. Custom paint. The upcoming mods. Loading times are unbelievable. The list goes on and on.

Kinda obvious but if anyone's on the fence or as the option to play the PC version of the game highly recommend it.

bmanic
11-01-2016, 00:40
I have a sneaking suspicion that the Xbox One inherently suffers from quite a bit of input/output latency. One of the things that you will notice immediately when sim-racing is that when you get your input (and display output) latency down to low numbers you just suddenly have a much easier time driving. There's a HUGE difference in confidence and laptime when you can set pre-rendered frames down to 1 and have very little graphics latency to the monitor.

Wheel -> *latency* -> Xbox One / PS4 -> *latency* -> TV = big big big problem.

bradleyland
11-01-2016, 01:39
Ok next question...Is there a PC wheel available for around $100? There is no way i can get away with spending $300 plus on one of those fancy ones.

Save up for a bit and get a decent wheel. I'd look for a second-hand G27. If you're buying new, my recommendation would be to save up for a T300RS Ferrari Integral or a Logitech G27. There are less expensive wheels available, but if you're going to make the investment, I don't know why you'd cut corners. A racing wheel is the conduit through which you'll control the car. You'll literally have your hands on it the entire time you're playing. It makes sense to get as best a wheel as you can.

DreamsKnight
11-01-2016, 04:34
If you drive only kids car like LMP e gt3 buy a dfgt.
If you drive seriuos old monsters car go for a g27.

I'd you drive a ProCar with sequential is a sky without stars.


/macho man old car my right foot has the power mode off. :D :D :D

Plato99
11-01-2016, 12:33
I did a similar thing. Had the PS4 version, then switched to the PC. I was impressed by how much better it looks and how much better it runs. Holding a steady 60+ FPS on very nearly max settings. (just a couple of things I don't use) I was more happy that I can actually use my sequential shifter without having to map it.



He has a point, the game doesn't run that well on the consoles because they just don't have the power to make it look as good as it should.

Runs fine on my Xbox One. OK, a few bugs n glitches but these are across all formats by the sound of it. Certainly nothing to do with the Xbox not being able to cope.
I reckon the PC lads and lasses would love another exclusive title. Makes them feel justified with their comparitively huge outlay of cash, which to be fair if I'd have spent that amount of money on a gaming rig I'd want to feel pampered too.

Lewis Puppy
11-01-2016, 12:49
If you're budget conscious, just remember that the DFGT and the G27 comes with the stick shift included. You will have to buy separately for the other wheels. And what I prefer with the DFGT over the G27 is that there's much more buttons on the DFGT wheel that you can be able to map. In addition, the DFGT is much more plug-n-play.

Umer Ahmad
11-01-2016, 13:11
I reckon the PC lads and lasses would love another exclusive title. Makes them feel justified with their comparitively huge outlay of cash, which to be fair if I'd have spent that amount of money on a gaming rig I'd want to feel pampered too.
I am a PC player and certainly i DO NOT want pcars to be a PC-exclusive title. I want everyone on modern hardware to have the chance to experience pcars. In the end it means more racers for me and growth of this dying genre. Which leads to further R&D and better racing games in the future. There's no need to subdivide our community into PC v Console, we are all racers and we are here for the same objective.

transfix
11-01-2016, 13:28
hmmm I'm on Xbox One and now you are tempting me to pick up a PC. Its the build process that is a bit intimidating for someone using Mac. If I could get a prebuiilt gaming spec that would make it much easier.

Mad Al
11-01-2016, 13:28
Runs fine on my Xbox One. OK, a few bugs n glitches but these are across all formats by the sound of it. Certainly nothing to do with the Xbox not being able to cope.
I reckon the PC lads and lasses would love another exclusive title. Makes them feel justified with their comparitively huge outlay of cash, which to be fair if I'd have spent that amount of money on a gaming rig I'd want to feel pampered too.
OT
Oh let's all join the we need more exclusives club.. I laugh hard every time I see the "You are not a real gamer unless you own all the consoles".. especially when it's accompanied by the usual PC gaming is too expensive? So spending 800+ quid on three consoles makes more sense than spending it on better hardware for a single platform... Yes, I've resigned myself to not playing any more Halo games... if they can't be arsed to put them back on PC, I can't be arsed to buy them.
/OT

Jussi Viljami Karjalainen
11-01-2016, 13:49
I have a sneaking suspicion that the Xbox One inherently suffers from quite a bit of input/output latency. One of the things that you will notice immediately when sim-racing is that when you get your input (and display output) latency down to low numbers you just suddenly have a much easier time driving. There's a HUGE difference in confidence and laptime when you can set pre-rendered frames down to 1 and have very little graphics latency to the monitor.

Wheel -> *latency* -> Xbox One / PS4 -> *latency* -> TV = big big big problem.Yup, I have that suspicion as well, backed up by the fastest responding game tested on the Xbox One so far achieved a result of 81 ms from button press to something happening on-screen (this was tested with a super fast 1080p gaming monitor with HDMI input). That is nearly 2x the total latency I have in pCARS! I have no idea how much latency there is on the Xbone and PS4, but everything I've seen from tests done on consoles so far suggests that they're not in any way near as quick to respond as PCs can be, and it's probably not even something the devs can do anything about. =/

EDIT: For those interested here are some test results: http://www.displaylag.com/video-game-input-lag-database/

Jussi Viljami Karjalainen
11-01-2016, 13:52
I am a PC player and certainly i DO NOT want pcars to be a PC-exclusive title. I want everyone on modern hardware to have the chance to experience pcars.Yes. Though I still want PC to be the lead platform and console versions to be downports if it's necessary to do any downsizing, rather than consoles being the lead and PC version being the upport.

beetes_juice
11-01-2016, 14:25
Playing just one version of the game, input lag goes unnoticed. Once making the switch it was the first thing that jumped out and its a big one. I'm sure most console guys are aware of input lag, especially while playing a racing sim, but this is a game changer. As Jussi implied, I don't think SMS or devs can fix this; just a byproduct of console gaming.

Went back and did a few laps on the XB1 after a few hours on PC and.....yeah I'll just say going to stick to the PC version of the game.

Not to push the agenda PC > Console but its kinda obvious. Loved my time in the XB1 game but after 30 minutes in the PC version I couldn't help but think "WTH was I doing?"


hmmm I'm on Xbox One and now you are tempting me to pick up a PC. Its the build process that is a bit intimidating for someone using Mac. If I could get a prebuiilt gaming spec that would make it much easier.

Not to get to weird but...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXsQAXx_ao0

Del Zotto x82x
11-01-2016, 14:32
I have PCARS for both xb1 and pc but unlike most of you I don't feel there's this huge gap between the two. Yes a few minor details, but if I don't nit-pick there is nothing game breaking. I think SMS did a good job bringing it to consoles so everyone can enjoy. The pc is more powerful and capable of much, much more, but that doesn't take away from the experience you get in PCAR's for the xb1

diesel97
11-01-2016, 14:52
Yes. Though I still want PC to be the lead platform and console versions to be downports if it's necessary to do any downsizing, rather than consoles being the lead and PC version being the upport.

So you want all the console guys to pay all the devs money to put into a PC version, so the console version gets next to no support ? Sounds about right in the PC world

Blunt RS
11-01-2016, 15:10
From what ive experienced on consoles and read on this forum, i thought this was already the case. That's why i for 1 wont be getting Project Cars 2 on console.

bradleyland
11-01-2016, 15:25
So you want all the console guys to pay all the devs money to put into a PC version, so the console version gets next to no support ? Sounds about right in the PC world

That's not a particularly generous interpretation of what Jussi said. His comments make perfect sense to me. The PC has greater capabilities, so it makes sense for the PC to be the lead platform. The end product is better when you start from a high-bar, then reduce texture resolution and poly counts to meet targets for lower-power systems.

Think about PS3 --> PS4 ports as an example of why the opposite is less than optimal. GTA V was a fantastic PS3 game, and the PS4 version looks great in comparison, but if GTA V had been developed for the PS4 from the outset, it would have looked even better. This is true of just about every console game; titles that target the next-gen systems from the beginning end up being better games.

I like to look forward, not backwards. I'm a PS4 gamer, but I prefer developers push the limits.

Lewis Puppy
11-01-2016, 15:40
The PC has greater capabilities, so it makes sense for the PC to be the lead platform. The end product is better when you start from a high-bar, then reduce texture resolution and poly counts to meet targets for lower-power systems.

Think about PS3 --> PS4 ports as an example of why the opposite is less than optimal. GTA V was a fantastic PS3 game, and the PS4 version looks great in comparison, but if GTA V had been developed for the PS4 from the outset, it would have looked even better. This is true of just about every console game; titles that target the next-gen systems from the beginning end up being better games.

I like to look forward, not backwards. I'm a PS4 gamer, but I prefer developers push the limits.

This is standard operating procedure with most games nowadays

bradleyland
11-01-2016, 15:45
hmmm I'm on Xbox One and now you are tempting me to pick up a PC. Its the build process that is a bit intimidating for someone using Mac. If I could get a prebuiilt gaming spec that would make it much easier.

There are companies that sell pre-built gaming systems. The difference is in cost-per-specification. There's really not much way around the cost issue though. A high end graphics card alone costs more than a console.

Lewis Puppy
11-01-2016, 16:04
hmmm I'm on Xbox One and now you are tempting me to pick up a PC. Its the build process that is a bit intimidating for someone using Mac. If I could get a prebuiilt gaming spec that would make it much easier.

Yes, look into cyberpowerpc. For gaming pc building newbies, this could be the better way to go for the first time. This will eliminate the guesswork and parts malfunctioning/incompatibilities. They throw in 2-year phone and chat tech support service so they can help you with parts upgrades/problems, along with pc warranty too.

diesel97
11-01-2016, 16:08
That's not a particularly generous interpretation of what Jussi said. His comments make perfect sense to me. The PC has greater capabilities, so it makes sense for the PC to be the lead platform. The end product is better when you start from a high-bar, then reduce texture resolution and poly counts to meet targets for lower-power systems.

Think about PS3 --> PS4 ports as an example of why the opposite is less than optimal. GTA V was a fantastic PS3 game, and the PS4 version looks great in comparison, but if GTA V had been developed for the PS4 from the outset, it would have looked even better. This is true of just about every console game; titles that target the next-gen systems from the beginning end up being better games.

I like to look forward, not backwards. I'm a PS4 gamer, but I prefer developers push the limits.

every body knows that key to any game is "optimizing " maybe they spent more man hours optimizing for the consoles they wouldn't have such a CPU hungry PC version. It can work both ways

Jussi Viljami Karjalainen
11-01-2016, 16:09
So you want all the console guys to pay all the devs money to put into a PC version, so the console version gets next to no support ? Sounds about right in the PC worldNo, I simply want the most capable platform to be developed to its fullest. If consoles were more powerful and capable than PCs then I'd want them to be the lead platform, but unfortunately they're not.

Also note the very important "if it's necessary to do any downsizing" part. To put it in a different way, if all platforms can perform equally, I want all platforms to be equal, but I don't want the most capable platform to be held back if the others can't keep up.

transfix
12-01-2016, 01:49
Yes, look into cyberpowerpc. For gaming pc building newbies, this could be the better way to go for the first time. This will eliminate the guesswork and parts malfunctioning/incompatibilities. They throw in 2-year phone and chat tech support service so they can help you with parts upgrades/problems, along with pc warranty too.

What about Alienware? How are they for gaming? I would actually like to hook the pc up to my 65" plasma alongside my consoles. I can HDMI out to my tv from the PC correct?

bradleyland
12-01-2016, 02:17
What about Alienware? How are they for gaming? I would actually like to hook the pc up to my 65" plasma alongside my consoles. I can HDMI out to my tv from the PC correct?

I've sent a couple of people to Xidax and they were very happy with the results.

PC Gamer has a decent comparison of the various providers:

http://www.pcgamer.com/nine-custom-pc-builders-compared-who-gives-you-the-best-deal/

I'm not a huge fan of Alienware. Ever since they were bought by Dell, they've gone to a more proprietary model. A lot of the systems they sell can't be easily upgraded.

The key thing you need to keep an eye on is the graphics card. You can get by on a Core i5 CPU, but don't go cheap on the graphics card or you won't be able to run high settings.

TrackDayKC
12-01-2016, 02:17
Ive gone made my mind up and decided to save up for one of the thrustmaster wheels.

On a side note, i have a Nexus 7 tablet and have bought and installed pCars Dash. Love it but it is extremely laggy, in only one use would i say the "speedometer" was smooth and the data smooth. Any tips on getting this working properly?

Lewis Puppy
12-01-2016, 02:48
What about Alienware? How are they for gaming? I would actually like to hook the pc up to my 65" plasma alongside my consoles. I can HDMI out to my tv from the PC correct?

No, I don't recommend Alienware. Their cases make it so that it's impossible to upgrade parts if need be and very overpriced for what you get.

Slowsley
12-01-2016, 03:15
I can HDMI out to my tv from the PC correct?

Yep

Jussi Viljami Karjalainen
12-01-2016, 10:46
What about Alienware? How are they for gaming? I would actually like to hook the pc up to my 65" plasma alongside my consoles. I can HDMI out to my tv from the PC correct?You can, but I'd be careful about the plasma because the vast majority of those have pretty horrific input lag (they're not faster than LCD TVs even though that's a very common misconception).

I can try to check what sort of input lag we'd be talking about with the TV, do you have the exact make and model available?

bradleyland
12-01-2016, 15:44
Ive gone made my mind up and decided to save up for one of the thrustmaster wheels.

On a side note, i have a Nexus 7 tablet and have bought and installed pCars Dash. Love it but it is extremely laggy, in only one use would i say the "speedometer" was smooth and the data smooth. Any tips on getting this working properly?

In network language, lag is the result of latency. pCars Dash on a tablet relies on WiFi to get updated data. There is an unavoidable amount of latency involved with wireless networks, but there are things you can do to reduce the latency.

1) Make sure your PC is connected via ethernet. Each "hop" (interconnect between devices) over WiFi adds latency.

2) Tune your UDP setting in PCars. The settings are:

UDP off
UDP 1 60/sec (16ms)
UDP 2 50/sec (20ms)
UDP 3 40/sec (25ms)
UDP 4 30/sec (32ms)
UDP 5 20/sec (50ms)
UDP 6 15/sec (66ms)
UDP 7 10/sec (100ms)
UDP 8 05/sec (200ms)
UDP 9 01/sec (1000ms)

Jumping straight to setting 1 is not a good idea. You can overload your WiFi network and actually cause slower updates. I recommend starting at 7 and lowering the setting one at a time.

3) Move your WiFi router closer to the location where you play PCars. With WiFi, distance increases latency, but probably not for the reasons you think. Yes, it literally takes longer for the signal to reach the device, but that's a tiny portion of the increase in latency. WiFi signal strength drops off on a log scale, which means signal is really great for a pretty good distance, then it gets horrible really quickly. The weaker the signal strength, the slower the transmission rate, and things get bad really quickly.

The only other thing to look out for is cheap WiFi routers. WiFi is a shared medium technology, which means that every device on the network transmits over the same wireless channel. If you have a slow device on your network, it can get in the way of other devices. This is why you'll sometimes notice that your WiFi network slows down for no apparent reason. A good WiFi router knows which device it is talking to and will throttle the messaging accordingly, but because PCars uses UDP broadcast, this can complicate the algorithms used to determine network speed. Basically, you want to make sure that someone isn't connected to your WiFi with really weak signal while you're gaming. If you can't control that, consider getting a dedicated WiFi access point for your PCars devices. Crazy, I know, but that's the best way to make sure you have all the available WiFi bandwidth.

TrackDayKC
12-01-2016, 20:00
In network language, lag is the result of latency. pCars Dash on a tablet relies on WiFi to get updated data. There is an unavoidable amount of latency involved with wireless networks, but there are things you can do to reduce the latency.

1) Make sure your PC is connected via ethernet. Each "hop" (interconnect between devices) over WiFi adds latency.

2) Tune your UDP setting in PCars. The settings are:

UDP off
UDP 1 60/sec (16ms)
UDP 2 50/sec (20ms)
UDP 3 40/sec (25ms)
UDP 4 30/sec (32ms)
UDP 5 20/sec (50ms)
UDP 6 15/sec (66ms)
UDP 7 10/sec (100ms)
UDP 8 05/sec (200ms)
UDP 9 01/sec (1000ms)

Jumping straight to setting 1 is not a good idea. You can overload your WiFi network and actually cause slower updates. I recommend starting at 7 and lowering the setting one at a time.

3) Move your WiFi router closer to the location where you play PCars. With WiFi, distance increases latency, but probably not for the reasons you think. Yes, it literally takes longer for the signal to reach the device, but that's a tiny portion of the increase in latency. WiFi signal strength drops off on a log scale, which means signal is really great for a pretty good distance, then it gets horrible really quickly. The weaker the signal strength, the slower the transmission rate, and things get bad really quickly.

The only other thing to look out for is cheap WiFi routers. WiFi is a shared medium technology, which means that every device on the network transmits over the same wireless channel. If you have a slow device on your network, it can get in the way of other devices. This is why you'll sometimes notice that your WiFi network slows down for no apparent reason. A good WiFi router knows which device it is talking to and will throttle the messaging accordingly, but because PCars uses UDP broadcast, this can complicate the algorithms used to determine network speed. Basically, you want to make sure that someone isn't connected to your WiFi with really weak signal while you're gaming. If you can't control that, consider getting a dedicated WiFi access point for your PCars devices. Crazy, I know, but that's the best way to make sure you have all the available WiFi bandwidth.

1. Yup on ethernet. Google Fiber customer so speed should not be an issue.

2. Ill try out the different UDP's

3. Everything is on the same desk, google fiber routers, Computer, monitors...

Ill report back! :) TY for the response!

TrackDayKC
12-01-2016, 23:33
UPDATE!!! Got pCars dash working just right, plus i got the ok from the clerk of the exchequer (the wife) to go buy a wheel. Found and bought a cheap ($70) ThrustmasterFerrari Racing Wheel Red Legend Edition. PCars recognised it right away and im now set to go!

bradleyland
12-01-2016, 23:34
1. Yup on ethernet. Google Fiber customer so speed should not be an issue.

2. Ill try out the different UDP's

3. Everything is on the same desk, google fiber routers, Computer, monitors...

Ill report back! :) TY for the response!

You bet. Just for clarity's sake, the UDP packets never leave your local network, so technically, you could use pCars Dash with no internet connection at all. Generally, you can exclude any internet issues from troubleshooting this particular issue. Good luck with the testing! :)

bradleyland
12-01-2016, 23:35
UPDATE!!! Got pCars dash working just right, plus i got the ok from the clerk of the exchequer (the wife) to go buy a wheel. Found and bought a cheap ($70) ThrustmasterFerrari Racing Wheel Red Legend Edition. PCars recognised it right away and im now set to go!

Doh, I just missed this reply when I replied :) Glad you got it working.

Lewis Puppy
13-01-2016, 01:20
UPDATE!!! Got pCars dash working just right, plus i got the ok from the clerk of the exchequer (the wife) to go buy a wheel. Found and bought a cheap ($70) ThrustmasterFerrari Racing Wheel Red Legend Edition. PCars recognised it right away and im now set to go!

Dude, you should have got a wheel with force feedback

Jussi Viljami Karjalainen
13-01-2016, 01:23
Dude, you should have got a wheel with force feedbackEh, the hunger will grow, he'll get one eventually. =)

transfix
13-01-2016, 04:46
You can, but I'd be careful about the plasma because the vast majority of those have pretty horrific input lag (they're not faster than LCD TVs even though that's a very common misconception).

I can try to check what sort of input lag we'd be talking about with the TV, do you have the exact make and model available?


it's a Panasonic VT30. thanks

Jussi Viljami Karjalainen
13-01-2016, 12:30
it's a Panasonic VT30. thanksWith all the extra processing stuff (IFC etc.) turned off it's around 20 ms compared to a CRT based on tests, so something in the 25-30 ms range total. A bit on the high side since it's roughly twice what most monitors have, enough that someone sensitive to lag could pick it up and high enough to slightly affect driving even if you don't, but still towards the better end of TV results (where so many hit around 40-90 ms total input lag or more, though best are around 14-18 ms total and on par with PC monitors). Depending on how sensitive you are you might notice there's a difference to your monitor, and it might affect stuff like drifting slightly even if you don't actively notice it.

bmanic
13-01-2016, 15:35
Yup, I have that suspicion as well, backed up by the fastest responding game tested on the Xbox One so far achieved a result of 81 ms from button press to something happening on-screen (this was tested with a super fast 1080p gaming monitor with HDMI input). That is nearly 2x the total latency I have in pCARS! I have no idea how much latency there is on the Xbone and PS4, but everything I've seen from tests done on consoles so far suggests that they're not in any way near as quick to respond as PCs can be, and it's probably not even something the devs can do anything about. =/

EDIT: For those interested here are some test results: http://www.displaylag.com/video-game-input-lag-database/

81ms???? FASTEST??? Holy cow. That is sloooooow.

Damn, that would explain so much.

Jussi Viljami Karjalainen
13-01-2016, 15:56
81ms???? FASTEST??? Holy cow. That is sloooooow.

Damn, that would explain so much.Yup, with a 10 ms total input lag gaming monitor to boot. It's pretty damn significant.

Though disclaimer, these are tests done by a single group using methods that are arguably not the most reliable and with only a small number of games.

Why the methodology might be flawed: For example the racing game tests tend to be timed from when the button is pushed to when the rear brake lights come on, but we don't actually know if the brake lights come on exactly when the brakes are applied, of if there's a delay there. Recording something like the telemetry screen in pCARS would be better IMO. Also we don't know whether or not the adapter they use (the controller they use is a keyboard that lights up when you press a button, connected to the consoles through an adapter if necessary, the timing is from when the controller lights up to when the game seems to respond) causes any lag, or if the lights on the controller comes on before (or even after) the button press is registered, etc.

Regardless, it doesn't look good for consoles.

EDIT: If anyone who plays pCARS on a console also owns or knows someone who owns a camera capable of at least 120 fps video (preferably more like 210 fps or more), like any of those small Casio Exilim cameras, I would be absolutely delighted to work with you to come up with a test to figure out if console versions are indeed more laggy than PC. I also have such a camera (capable of 360 fps with a resolution that's still usable), so if anyone in Finland happens to live right near me we could also work out something. =)

IJOJOI
13-01-2016, 16:06
I already raised the point of inputlag back in the Tyrethread when everyone was going crazy about 6.0 and the heating.

It absolutely to play pCars on my LG TV even when it's connected to my PC, with my laptop it's even worse, on my PS4 it's similar to my laptop, a LOT of lag. I had to
hide the ingame wheel because the delayed movement distracted me that much.

I don't have a good enough camera unfortunately, just a GoPro with 120FPS.
Futhermore I think my TV is an extreme in that regards, it's unplayable.

Jussi Viljami Karjalainen
13-01-2016, 16:10
I don't have a good enough camera unfortunately, just a GoPro with 120FPS.
Futhermore I think my TV is an extreme in that regards, it's unplayable.120 fps with a GoPro is good for a start at least, can you hook up your PS4 to a PC monitor (aka do you have a monitor with an HDMI input, or a DisplayPort input and an HDMI to DP adapter)?

Oh, and sorry for the OT turn of things, however I do believe this is an important subject. Maybe we need to do this in another thread. =/

satco1066
13-01-2016, 16:22
So you want all the console guys to pay all the devs money to put into a PC version, so the console version gets next to no support ? Sounds about right in the PC world

Why shouldn't the work for all platforms anymore.
There is only one source code. All comes from the same compiler.
And the console user base is much higher.

IJOJOI
13-01-2016, 16:24
120 fps with a GoPro is good for a start at least, can you hook up your PS4 to a PC monitor (aka do you have a monitor with an HDMI input, or a DisplayPort input and an HDMI to DP adapter)?

Oh, and sorry for the OT turn of things, however I do believe this is an important subject. Maybe we need to do this in another thread. =/

Sure, but it won't happen before tomorrow evening I think, since I am not home atm.

I am just thinking about how to film it properly. I mean, when do I know (with the gopro) that I hit the brake on the controller...

We'll see ;)
If this turns out to be a major issue it would explain quite a few things.

It's a pity we can't see the Physics timing however, since this always effected my Laptop a lot!

Jussi Viljami Karjalainen
13-01-2016, 16:25
Sure, but it won't happen before tomorrow evening I think, since I am not home atm.

I am just thinking about how to film it properly. I mean, when do I know (with the gopro) that I hit the brake on the controller...

We'll see ;)
If this turns out to be a major issue it would explain quite a few things.

It's a pity we can't see the Physics timing however, since this always effected my Laptop a lot!Get in touch with me once you have time, I have worked through some issues with recording these and have some practices to solve most of them. =)

satco1066
13-01-2016, 16:29
What about Alienware? How are they for gaming? I would actually like to hook the pc up to my 65" plasma alongside my consoles. I can HDMI out to my tv from the PC correct?

30% of the price of Alienware Pc's ist for the name and design.
So you pay high end price for a cool PC with midrange specs.

havocc
13-01-2016, 16:31
Custom pc ftw

Umer Ahmad
13-01-2016, 17:12
They're quite easy to put together. Really cant believe Alienware is still in business. You just need a Phillips head (cross shaped) screw driver and basic English skills.

diesel97
13-01-2016, 17:25
Why shouldn't the work for all platforms anymore.
There is only one source code. All comes from the same compiler.
And the console user base is much higher.

With least amount of support. Example SMS will spend tons of time and money for dedicated servers (Ian told the team to put at the top of list )for the PC versions but couldn't spend a dime on UDP for the console version. Tim Mann spent a couple hour a night after work and pulled it off no problem. Looks like SMS didn't even make a effort for the console but they want the money though




and the mods should be releasing the hounds in 1,2,3

bradleyland
13-01-2016, 17:37
They're quite easy to put together. Really cant believe Alienware is still in business. You just need a Phillips head (cross shaped) screw driver and basic English skills.

Just an alternative perspective. I've run a number of "PC build" clinics over the years. My observation is that building a PC is terrifying for most people. For example, the insertion force required for a stick of RAM is about 3x what most people expect. I don't think I've ever seen a first time builder seat a stick of RAM correctly their first try.

Personally I don't recommend attempting a build unless you have someone experienced who is local and can step in if you get in over your head, or you have a background in troubleshooting and a ton of patience. Builders like Xidax are still building good quality PCs in standard, upgradable cases for a reasonable markup over the cost of building your own.

Just my $0.02.

DreamsKnight
13-01-2016, 18:21
build a pc is more easy than a lego tecnich set.
if you have a problem during the building, that is the difficult part.
a tech (this is my work) has a logic way to resolve problems doing logic tests in a logic order. you can call it experience. in ten years i worked about 7000 pc.
"home experts" (10 pc built?), i see in my costumers, in case of problems tend to focus over thing in casual order and lost the way.

a tip: the first boot and os installation out of the case in this way (no nitrogen obs :D ) you have space and you spend less time to manage problems

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/04/2007TaipeiITMonth_IntelOCLiveTest_Overclocking.jpg

poirqc
13-01-2016, 19:04
They're quite easy to put together. Really cant believe Alienware is still in business. You just need a Phillips head (cross shaped) screw driver and basic English skills.

That's a little bit oversimplified there, don't you think ;)

Jussi Viljami Karjalainen
13-01-2016, 19:19
That's a little bit oversimplified there, don't you think ;)No, not really. These days you barely need any tools and just about all the connectors will only go in one way, it's getting a bit difficult to do things wrong, as long as you don't resort to brute force.

IJOJOI
13-01-2016, 19:55
No, not really. These days you barely need any tools and just about all the connectors will only go in one way, it's getting a bit difficult to do things wrong, as long as you don't resort to brute force.

Building a Lego house is harder to put together a PC really :P

Things to do:
Put CPU into MB (CPU is marked so you cant put it in wrong)
Put in RAM (Sticks only go in the correct way)
Put cooler on top (usually very well documented, just as Lego with a few screws)
Put PSU in the Case
Put Harddrives/SSDs in the case
Put Graphics Card in the case (again only goes in one way)

Connect all the stuff accordingly (Same here, the connectors only fit on parts they belong to)

Start PC with a Windows CD or a Bootsstick
--> Install Windows
--> Install the Drivers for graphics and other stuff (you get the CDs with the components)

--> Install Steam and the Games...


:P
Total Time: about 1-3hrs including DL the stuff :D

Jussi Viljami Karjalainen
13-01-2016, 20:04
Yeah, and the CPUs don't even have pins anymore so you can't bend those, and if you don't care to use an aftermarket cooler you can get one boxed with the CPU so it'll already have the thermal paste necessary on it, and attach by just pushing it on (in many cases at least). =)

Invincible
13-01-2016, 20:05
To me, the most difficult part of building a PC is getting the cpu cooling paste placed correctly and in the correct amount. After that comes cable management. But only, if you want the inside of the case look clean.


Yeah, and the CPUs don't even have pins anymore so you can't bend those

The AMD ones still have them - unfortunately.

DreamsKnight
13-01-2016, 20:45
you can bend them in the mobo. if you put cpu in wrong way. seen.

:D

IJOJOI
13-01-2016, 20:52
you can bend them in the mobo. if you put cpu in wrong way. seen.

:D

Therefore there is the marker on the corner, actually happend to me once too with my 2600K after a complete rebuild.
I just bent the pins back into position with a needle and it worked out :P

bmanic
13-01-2016, 21:24
I too have found that people in general are very wary of building their own PC. Hence I always end up building them for my friends (or at least assist them while I insist they do all the work themselves). There's a strange technofobia that hits when people see circuit boards and such.

Never has a PC been as easy to build as it is now. I do remember the early 90's and 00's when it was a bit trickier and you had to carefully check even the basic cables that they went in the right way.. and all those jumpers that need to be set correctly. Oh and some of those horrible cooling fan contraptions.. holy moly!! I still remember my good old over clocked 486 build.. and that magical Celeron 300 build!

Speaking of funny 486 builds..

225274

poirqc
13-01-2016, 21:39
Don't underestimate how a simple guide can go horribly wrong. :) Correct termal paste application, static, RMA, etc...

Of course, it's never been easier to build a PC, there's an enormous amount of video and documentation on the web. The DIY market speak for itself.

It's just that it's not as easy as eating a cereal bowl as some make it sound. :)

IJOJOI
13-01-2016, 21:39
When you had to set Jumpers because the BIOS wasn't able to do sh** :D

Oh those times :D
I still have some old voodoo Cards lying around. These were crazy back in the day!
And HUGE :D

poirqc
13-01-2016, 21:41
When you had to set Jumpers because the BIOS wasn't able to do sh** :D

Oh those times :D
I still have some old voodoo Cards lying around. These were crazy back in the day!
And HUGE :D

I remember when a friend hooked 2 Voodoo 2 12megs, in SLI, to play Q3! Man did it run.

FAster
13-01-2016, 21:47
Well PC version is better

bradleyland
13-01-2016, 21:51
When you had to set Jumpers because the BIOS wasn't able to do sh** :D

Oh those times :D
I still have some old voodoo Cards lying around. These were crazy back in the day!
And HUGE :D

Kids these days. Don't know how good they have it! Back in my day, we had separate 2D and 3D video cards! :D

poirqc
13-01-2016, 21:59
Kids these days. Don't know how good they have it! Back in my day, we had separate 2D and 3D video cards! :D

The first time i ran Civilisation, it was on 4 3.5" disks, on a 386. I didn't knew you could install a program on the HDD. So i lanched the .exe and it was disk swapping galore! :D

DreamsKnight
14-01-2016, 00:13
i know everything you written. the point is: we are too old. :(:(:(

poirqc
14-01-2016, 00:18
i know everything you written. the point is: we are too old. :(:(:(

We're not old, we just already had lots of fun!

Umer Ahmad
14-01-2016, 01:27
The first time i ran Civilisation, it was on 4 3.5" disks, on a 386. I didn't knew you could install a program on the HDD. So i lanched the .exe and it was disk swapping galore! :D

Remember those Sierra games like Kings Quest where you had to switch out the 3.5" disk when you got to another level/stage? Good times.

poirqc
14-01-2016, 01:41
Remember those Sierra games like Kings Quest where you had to switch out the 3.5" disk when you got to another level/stage? Good times.

I never really played those game, i mostly saw their cartboard boxes, always nicely drawn. I started on the genre with Full Throttle (http://www.artbot.com/games/ft/ft.html)

Another game someone gave me was Stunt, from brothersoft. Of course, it was a copy.

Launch the game, super music, pick a car, pick a track, i'm so eager to play! Launch the track....

Give me the 3rd word from the 4th paragraph, at page 31 of the booklet!

I don't have to tell you i was pretty upset. :D
(I was able to play at some point)

Jussi Viljami Karjalainen
14-01-2016, 03:04
Remember those Sierra games like Kings Quest where you had to switch out the 3.5" disk when you got to another level/stage? Good times.Nope, but I remember the ones where you had to change the 5.25" ones. Also the cassette tape ones, oh deary me those could be fiddly.

Invincible
14-01-2016, 06:23
Remember those Sierra games like Kings Quest where you had to switch out the 3.5" disk when you got to another level/stage? Good times.

King's Quest 7 was the shit! Loved it! I also played Falcon 3.0 a lot! Or Monkey's Island, Indiana Jones and so on... glorious times!

JessicaWalter
14-01-2016, 06:42
lol, Phantasmagoria was the first game i bought on CD (7 discs). i opened it up thinking, "wow, look how much space this game takes up! it's all the full motion video clips! this is the future" haha

Azure Flare
14-01-2016, 07:14
There was clearly a time when this thread was about discussing someone going from the XB1 to PC version of PCARS. :p

Invincible
14-01-2016, 07:19
There was clearly a time when this thread was about discussing someone going from the XB1 to PC version of PCARS. :p

Don't cling to the past. :p

Azure Flare
14-01-2016, 07:30
http://i.imgur.com/lpEguBI.jpg