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View Full Version : Advice Appreciated - Which is the Wheel Deal?



Rob22
13-01-2016, 23:51
Hello and sorry about the pun above. Hope I'm posting this in the right place.

I am looking to get a wheel and any advice/benefit of your experiences would be appreciated. Now I can't justify (to myself or my wife!) spending a huge amount, but absolutely do want force feedback and reasonable quality for a beginner.

In the price range I am looking at, I have narrowed my search down to the Logitech G920 and the Thrustmaster T150. I can get the former for 160, and the latter for ~110-15. I think a T300 is out of range, though agree it looks very nice.

Key criteria/relevant points:

- I am going to be using this on Project Cars on PC only (have bought most PC parts and will build next month after a busy work deadline - this is my present to myself, I've never had a machine capable of running good games before!)

- I'd like a wheel that's quiet - I live in a flat and something clunky would annoy me too.

- I will attach this to my desk rather than a rig - there is a keyboard tray so the clap would need to fit.

- Obviously, I want it to feel nice and give responsive feedback for enjoyable racing!

- Which offers the best value for money at the above price points?

I haven't been able to find a huge amount of reviews of the T150 and usually the G920/29 are only compared directly with the T300, so hoping I can benefit from those more experienced with these wheels.

My deliberations:

Pricing:

For the Logitech, though it costs more (albeit significantly reduced in the offer from its "usual" price), it comes with good pedals, whereas from what I've read, at some point soon I may want to update the T150 pedals to the T3PA - which look great, but cost about 75. So by that point, it might be similarly/more expensive with the T150 in any case.

In addition, I can get the Logitech manual shifter for 25 on offer, whereas the TH8 shifter is about 90. The latter looks of superior quality and feature-rich, but for 25 I might just go for the shifter up front to get the feel of a manual car, where for 100 + needing a pedal set for a clutch, may well stick with the paddles only. Incidentally, would the Thrustmaster shifter work with the Logitech wheel? Just thinking of a future upgrade if I really get into the sim racing experience.

So in terms of price, would I be getting more for less with the Logitech? I guess if the Logitech was 300 there would be no contest - I'd get the T150 as it seems a more than capable "entry-level" wheel, but given the much lower differential currently it is a real consideration.

That said, if the quality of the stock T150 pedals is OK, maybe that's cheaper for a good driving experience?

Build quality/use & reliability:

The G920 looks very nice and professional in terms of build, whereas the T150 seems a bit more plasticky. I'm sure either would be fine, so not a deal maker.

How does the gear & belt of the T150 compare to the two helical geared motors of the G920 in noise terms and feel - is either noticeably louder? I've read that the G920 can feel "grindy/notchy" due to the motors - is the T150 noticeably smoother? Similarly, is the FF deadzone an issue or is it very small and doesn't affect the feel materially? Again, I've read the T150 has little to no deadzone. Anyone with a G920 - does it bother you?

Are the paddle shifters of either overly clicky? Want nice solid feel without waking people up :)


I've also read somewhere that the G920 has problems with PC compatibility and with wires coming loose internally from the rotation of the wheel. Has anyone experienced this, or are these largely resolved now? Guess this is my main concern with the G920.

Conversely, how does the Thrustmaster T150 rate in reliability? A number of years ago I got a cheap wheel to go with my old computer running F1 Challenge 99-02 mod (Thrustmaster Ferrari Experience 3-in-1). The pedal spring broke in it (and its replacement) within a weekend, so sent back and never bothered with a wheel again until now. Are the T150 stock pedals now built properly? Though I didn't like that product, I realised that a wheel and pedal controller was fun, but also that force feedback is worth getting - the limited degree of turn was fine for an F1 game, but both the above wheels have nice 900-1080 degrees of rotation.

The G920 as I understand it has only 8 bit pedal resolution compared to 10 bit even in the T150 stock pedals - is this a noticeable difference?

The G920 has Hall effect sensors which I believe should last longer - does the T150 use these too?

Is the Logitech likely to last longer, hence being worth the additional outlay?

Desk attachments

The Logitech looks like it sits easily on a desk, I'm sure that would work with my setup. I recall the TM clamp being fairly bulky - has anyone tried it above a keyboard desk and does it work OK?

Finally, is there any real difference between the G920 and G29 on PC other than looks?

Thanks for your help and sorry for all the questions - I'm quite new to this, and want to make a decision I'll be happy with. Hope to join the Project Cars community in earnest soon!

cunningham85
14-01-2016, 00:09
I have the G29 just got it after xmas infact after my T100 gave up ghost. I think the T150 is very similar to the T100 and I can only comment on that but the G29 blows it away easily. Its by far a more premium wheel. Don't think I would ever pay the 300 they normally go for but got mine at Currys at the 160 deal.

poirqc
14-01-2016, 00:16
If you're on a tight budget, a G27 would be a good option, if you can get it cheap enough. It's an old package by todays standard, but it comes with everything you need.

900 wheel
shifter, H
Not bad of a pedal kit, clutch, brake, gaz.

You can mount the pedals easily on anything. The wheel and shifter can be clamped on a desk. With some messing with the FFB, you can get it quiet enough in pCars.

Jussi Viljami Karjalainen
14-01-2016, 00:33
I think the T150 is very similar to the T100 and I can only comment on that but the G29 blows it away easily.I sort of doubt the T150 is that similar to the T100, the T100 has 270 degrees of motion whereas the T150 claims to have 1080 degrees, so the internal mechanism needs to be very different. That said I think the G2X base is probably the better choice, especially since you get a clutch pedal (and can upgrade easily with the shifter later).

BigDad
14-01-2016, 01:07
Well i bought a Fanatec 911 GT2 and CSR Elite pedals for $350 aus and it's been great , probably about 300 hours use on project CARS on PS4 and not one problem and works on pc and xbox aswell .
Belt driven and no click when changing gears so this wheel is quiet and has great force feed back .
So maybe have a look for Fanatec aswell .
The Logitec is very noisy from all reports from a mate who has one and if the T150 is anything like the other Thrustmasters , the paddles click like crazy. Loud.

RedBaron
14-01-2016, 01:36
I would recommend the T150 wheel it is belt/gear driven FFB which is a little better IMO than just gear driven mechanism in G920
However the bundled G920 pedals are better and come with the clutch if you ever decide to purchase the shifter.
I am sure you will be happy with either one of those.

poirqc
14-01-2016, 01:44
Like it was said in another thread, the positive thing is that most wheel/pedal/shifter kit are segmented into different price range.

It'll probably depend on how far you can stretch your budget.

Jussi Viljami Karjalainen
14-01-2016, 03:08
Well i bought a Fanatec 911 GT2 and CSR Elite pedals for $350 aus and it's been great , probably about 300 hours use on project CARS on PS4 and not one problem and works on pc and xbox aswell .
Belt driven and no click when changing gears so this wheel is quiet and has great force feed back .
So maybe have a look for Fanatec aswell .
The Logitec is very noisy from all reports from a mate who has one and if the T150 is anything like the other Thrustmasters , the paddles click like crazy. Loud.Huh, usually a well defined, fairly loud click noise is perceived as a good thing in paddles. =)

If he's trying to decide between G29/G920 and T150 then anything Fanatec is outside his budget. The T150 is a bit of an unknown quantity really, it's not been out that long and only comes with two pedals. The G29/G920 on the other hand is based on the well proven G25/G27 base, which is a good thing, and you get three pedals, and a simple shifter upgrade later on. I don't know what the T150 wheelbase is like, but in the long run it'll probably need both pedal and shifter purchases, which makes it feel like sort of a stop-gap solution to save a bit now only to spend more later... Hard to say really. I guess it all comes down to whether the T150's wheelbase is so good that it overcomes the worse pedals...

BigDad
14-01-2016, 05:50
Not in my house with a wife and 3 kids trying to sleep in close proximity.
I can feel a click but cannot hear one which is the way i think it should be . Just listening to people playing online i can always tell when someone is using a Thrustmaster .
I'm in Australia and the g29 is very similar price to my Fanatec gear . Might be different elsewhere .

gazza1101
14-01-2016, 05:52
I had the TX300, I have the G290 as my TX300 was sent off to be repaired, the TX is quieter in that it does not knock, it was possibly smoother but the fan had to run all the time to keep it cool , the feedback was different but I would not say better, I am keeping the G290 as I really like it, the standrd pedals are way superior (I had T3PA). The G290 is not as far as I know upgradeable but I would recomend it on my own personal experience, check Youtube for video of the knocking could be a deal breaker for some. Just received my TX300 back and gonna put it on Ebay:)

BigDad
14-01-2016, 06:04
The H shifter for Fanatec has a load click which was similar to Thrustmaster paddle click and i modified it with a noise reduction mod . Perfectly quiet now .=)
Not sure why a click is persevered to be a good thing? More annoying if you ask me .

DreamsKnight
14-01-2016, 18:05
with pedals you'll do a lot of rumor. more than any wheels.

and when i say a lot, i mean a lot. a lot of time I see my sleeping cats jump.

cmch15
14-01-2016, 18:34
I had the TX300, I have the G290 as my TX300 was sent off to be repaired....

I read this a lot, so as a previous G27 user and based on an experience with a TM joystick some years ago, I was going in the direction of the G29. When the price dropped in a sale, decision made.


the standrd pedals are way superior (I had T3PA).

Interesting to hear first hand experience. One of the things I was trying to decide when buying was, is it worth paying the extra for the 3 pedals (TM). From pictures the TM still looked a bit cheap.

Jussi Viljami Karjalainen
14-01-2016, 18:45
Most of the reports of broken T300s are from early production units AFAIK (not all of them obviously), they seem to have improved since then.

Also I'm on my third G25, the first two broke within a few weeks of use, and most people I know with G27s have had issues with either broken or loosened optical encoders (which aren't that difficult to fix though). I'd also say that at least the metal 3-pedal set from TM is superior to the G2X pedal set, though tastes can differ and it's not a humongous difference. Brake with the brake mod included is significantly better especially, and I love that I can flip them around (less dust going inside them). Those have been my first hand experiences running with a G25 for a long while (the third one actually has held together) vs. a second hand T500 (includes the metal 3-pedal set by standard) I bought two years ago (on another level FFB wise compared to G2X).

bradleyland
14-01-2016, 19:43
I haven't been able to find a huge amount of reviews of the T150 and usually the G920/29 are only compared directly with the T300, so hoping I can benefit from those more experienced with these wheels.

That's a good clue for you :) The reason the G29 is most often compared with the T300 is because the G29 is more equivalent to the T300 than it is the T150. Unfortunately, Logitech really doesn't have a product positioned directly against the T150, which is why you don't see comparisons.

Thrustmaster and Logitech have taken two different approaches to the market. Logitech has (for this console generation) only released one product, which is sold in two versions. I think of Thrustmaster as a "Fanatec-Light". They have an "ecosystem" of products that work together. For example, you can buy the T3PA pedals separately from Thrustmaster. The TX/T300 line of wheels have interchangeable steering wheels. By contrast, Logitech offers one product, with a single upgrade (the shifter).

At the end of the day, G29 vs T150 is an apples to oranges comparison. IMO, the G29 is the nicer wheel, but it should be for the extra money.

I can answer some of your specific questions though:

- I'd like a wheel that's quiet - I live in a flat and something clunky would annoy me too.

Belt-drive wheels are much quieter. That means bumping up to a T300 though.

- I will attach this to my desk rather than a rig - there is a keyboard tray so the clap would need to fit.

The clamp on the T150 looks similar to the T300, but the T150 uses a plastic screw. You need a good 5-inches of clearance to operate the clamp easily.

- Obviously, I want it to feel nice and give responsive feedback for enjoyable racing!

The G29 is leather-wrapped, which is much nicer than the plastic/rubber on the Thrustmaster wheels. The T300 Ferrari Integral is, IMO, the best value in the Thrustmaster line up right now. That's where you'd need to be in order to match the quality feel of the G29.

- Which offers the best value for money at the above price points?

Value is relative to your wants. For example, the way a wheel feels in my hands is extremely important to me. I waited months for the T300 Ferrari Integral because it has a larger wheel (30cm) and Alcantara wrap. If your priorities are different, then you'll perceive value differently. I will say though, that it's hard to make a case against the G29 in this comparison. Good pedals are a huge part of a positive sim racing experience, and the G29 pedals are very popular. In particular, they come with a brake mod, which makes a world of difference.

Jussi Viljami Karjalainen
14-01-2016, 20:35
Best way to put your T300/T500 at least to the table is drilling two holes and using wing bolts. Quicker than the normal clamp, as solid as a bolt-on rig, and requires very little space. =)

You do have to drill holes on your desk though... For me it wasn't a problem since I usually cover that area with my keyboard. With a tray though...

I also disagree that the leather on the G2X wheels (unless they've changed a lot since G27) is that much nicer than the rubber on the Thrustmaster wheels, this is some pretty great rubber. =)

poirqc
14-01-2016, 21:24
Well, it seems i can't recommend the G27 anymore. It's mostly out of stock everywhere. When you can buy it, it's the same price as a G29 / G920...

You could always try that wheel! (http://www.amazon.com/Saitek-Farming-Simulator-SCB432160002-01/dp/B010FP5KI6/ref=sr_1_8?s=videogames&ie=UTF8&qid=1452810161&sr=1-8&keywords=G27)

I wonder how it'll work in pCars! :D

cmch15
14-01-2016, 22:01
That's a good clue for you :) The reason the G29 is most often compared with the T300 is because the G29 is more equivalent to the T300 than it is the T150. Unfortunately, Logitech really doesn't have a product positioned directly against the T150, which is why you don't see comparisons.........

*** cut to save space***

......- Which offers the best value for money at the above price points?

Value is relative to your wants. For example, the way a wheel feels in my hands is extremely important to me. I waited months for the T300 Ferrari Integral because it has a larger wheel (30cm) and Alcantara wrap. If your priorities are different, then you'll perceive value differently. I will say though, that it's hard to make a case against the G29 in this comparison. Good pedals are a huge part of a positive sim racing experience, and the G29 pedals are very popular. In particular, they come with a brake mod, which makes a world of difference.

Some good points in there.

@Jussi

I was referring to the plastic TM 3 pedal sets. I assume the metal (pro?) are more expensive again. I think for its price the T300 ought to come with 3 pedals to compete with G29. As it is, it makes them comparible wheels with 2 pedals with the TM.

I expect the 300 has smoother (read "better"? feedback than G29, but for the similar price points the Logitech seems the best compromise IMO, and particularly in this case where the OP is looking at the T150 and a G29 that is on sale. :)

Lewis Puppy
14-01-2016, 22:38
Does the Fanatec CSR Elite pedals work well with the T300 with Fanatec adapter?

bradleyland
14-01-2016, 23:16
Some good points in there.

@Jussi

I was referring to the plastic TM 3 pedal sets. I assume the metal (pro?) are more expensive again. I think for its price the T300 ought to come with 3 pedals to compete with G29. As it is, it makes them comparible wheels with 2 pedals with the TM.

I expect the 300 has smoother (read "better"? feedback than G29, but for the similar price points the Logitech seems the best compromise IMO, and particularly in this case where the OP is looking at the T150 and a G29 that is on sale. :)

Thanks :D

I try to be very careful about saying one is better than the other when it comes to the T300 and G29/G920 though. One is gear-driven and the other belt driven. They're very different, but some folks will prefer one over the other. IMO, there is no objective "better" when it comes to gear vs belt.

poirqc
15-01-2016, 00:49
Best way to put your T300/T500 at least to the table is drilling two holes and using wing bolts. Quicker than the normal clamp, as solid as a bolt-on rig, and requires very little space. =)

You do have to drill holes on your desk though... For me it wasn't a problem since I usually cover that area with my keyboard. With a tray though...

I also disagree that the leather on the G2X wheels (unless they've changed a lot since G27) is that much nicer than the rubber on the Thrustmaster wheels, this is some pretty great rubber. =)

I don't think the leather is real on my G27. If you have sweaty hands, the texture gets weird sometimes.

Charger
15-01-2016, 02:02
I don't think the leather is real on my G27. If you have sweaty hands, the texture gets weird sometimes.

Yes it is real. moistness on leather can make it feel a bit rubbery, ask me how I know this? :cool:

Jussi Viljami Karjalainen
18-01-2016, 19:22
The leather is definitely real, I'd say it's just treated differently than most leather you see on steering wheels etc. so it can feel a bit odd. =)

@Jussi

I was referring to the plastic TM 3 pedal sets. I assume the metal (pro?) are more expensive again. I think for its price the T300 ought to come with 3 pedals to compete with G29. As it is, it makes them comparible wheels with 2 pedals with the TM.

I expect the 300 has smoother (read "better"? feedback than G29, but for the similar price points the Logitech seems the best compromise IMO, and particularly in this case where the OP is looking at the T150 and a G29 that is on sale. :)Yeah, I can't understand their decision to release a 2-pedal set at all...

For me the T300's FFB is not only smoother, but considerably stronger. That's my main gripe with the G2X base, it's just way too weak to use in anything approaching a linear way. It only starts to get comfortably heavy when running near maximum, so in most cases your choice is between linear and informative force feedback that's very light overall, or FFB that gets fairly heavy but doesn't have any usable range to it (always maxed out). I prefer information in my FFB, so most of the time I was forced to run it quite "fingertippy" because otherwise it'd just be clipping all the time.

That said the T300 and the T500 aren't really strong enough either, and neither is the CSW V2, but they're at least a lot closer and give you much more usable dynamic range in the FFB.

EDIT: Basically what I'm saying is that the G2X is a great wheelbase that's only let down by the low maximum FFB power (the crispness and accuracy of the FFB is great though), and that at this point for me it'd be impossible to go back to a wheel with that little power in the long term. It isn't anything that'd prevent one from setting blisteringly fast lap times though, and neither is it something that prevents enjoyment (I played with mine for years and years), but after experiencing the better, stronger FFB on the Thrustmasters I can't see myself going back.

This doesn't necessarily apply to all stronger wheels, for example the old tech Fanatec Porsche wheels were a lot stronger in their power, but they were also slow and heavily damped no matter what settings you used (the maximum rate of rotation was really low), and I just couldn't get on with their sluggishness in my style of driving (lots of going sideways), they just felt annoying to use compared to my G25 despite being strong. For people who just hot lap they were great though, very strong, very precise, great wheels, just not for me. Thrustmaster on the other hand is way way way quicker than the G2X could ever hope to be, stronger and smoother as well. That is what made me instantly fall in love with my T500.

Charger
18-01-2016, 19:33
Picked up a T150 today, not a badly made wheel and quite heavy, nice feel with the belt drive but the pedals aren't great but functional but I'll still be keeping my G25 so if anyone needs a brand new T150 I have one for sale in the UK, 12 months warranty on it.

I was going to keep it as back up but my mate has spares for a G25 so I am covered.

danh95
19-01-2016, 10:40
I'd get the G29 over the G920 myself, you get more buttons so it's more customisable and (reading from reviews on Currys) it has no compatibility issues. Certainly doesn't on my one anyway! Never tried the thrustmaster but I can vouch for the G29.

Chris Sercombe
01-04-2016, 16:35
I had the TX300, I have the G290 as my TX300 was sent off to be repaired, the TX is quieter in that it does not knock, it was possibly smoother but the fan had to run all the time to keep it cool , the feedback was different but I would not say better, I am keeping the G290 as I really like it, the standrd pedals are way superior (I had T3PA). The G290 is not as far as I know upgradeable but I would recomend it on my own personal experience, check Youtube for video of the knocking could be a deal breaker for some. Just received my TX300 back and gonna put it on Ebay:)

You mean T300 ? no such thing as a TX300 is there ? or you mean the 458 ? i get confused with all these wheel numbers, and different numbers for different consoles/platforms, why cant one wheel just work on PC PS4 Xbox One.

Charger
01-04-2016, 18:30
Had a G920 delivered today from Currys/PC world for 99, really wanted the G29 but was out of stock at the same price, I am sticking with my G25 though as I have 2 of them now, this will be going to a mates son for his XBox, the deadzone on the G25 is so much tighter than the G27/G29/G920 due to straight cut gears on the G25 vs helical on the others, it rattles more but I think it's tighter personally.

Chris Sercombe
01-04-2016, 18:57
Must admit i hate deadzones.

gazza1101
01-04-2016, 22:49
Must admit i hate deadzones.
I have never noticed a deadzone on my g290:)

LukeC
02-04-2016, 00:54
Hello and sorry about the pun above. Hope I'm posting this in the right place.

I am looking to get a wheel and any advice/benefit of your experiences would be appreciated. Now I can't justify (to myself or my wife!) spending a huge amount, but absolutely do want force feedback and reasonable quality for a beginner.

In the price range I am looking at, I have narrowed my search down to the Logitech G920 and the Thrustmaster T150. I can get the former for 160, and the latter for ~110-15. I think a T300 is out of range, though agree it looks very nice.

Key criteria/relevant points:

- I am going to be using this on Project Cars on PC only (have bought most PC parts and will build next month after a busy work deadline - this is my present to myself, I've never had a machine capable of running good games before!)

- I'd like a wheel that's quiet - I live in a flat and something clunky would annoy me too.

- I will attach this to my desk rather than a rig - there is a keyboard tray so the clap would need to fit.

- Obviously, I want it to feel nice and give responsive feedback for enjoyable racing!

- Which offers the best value for money at the above price points?

I haven't been able to find a huge amount of reviews of the T150 and usually the G920/29 are only compared directly with the T300, so hoping I can benefit from those more experienced with these wheels.

My deliberations:

Pricing:

For the Logitech, though it costs more (albeit significantly reduced in the offer from its "usual" price), it comes with good pedals, whereas from what I've read, at some point soon I may want to update the T150 pedals to the T3PA - which look great, but cost about 75. So by that point, it might be similarly/more expensive with the T150 in any case.

In addition, I can get the Logitech manual shifter for 25 on offer, whereas the TH8 shifter is about 90. The latter looks of superior quality and feature-rich, but for 25 I might just go for the shifter up front to get the feel of a manual car, where for 100 + needing a pedal set for a clutch, may well stick with the paddles only. Incidentally, would the Thrustmaster shifter work with the Logitech wheel? Just thinking of a future upgrade if I really get into the sim racing experience.

So in terms of price, would I be getting more for less with the Logitech? I guess if the Logitech was 300 there would be no contest - I'd get the T150 as it seems a more than capable "entry-level" wheel, but given the much lower differential currently it is a real consideration.

That said, if the quality of the stock T150 pedals is OK, maybe that's cheaper for a good driving experience?

Build quality/use & reliability:

The G920 looks very nice and professional in terms of build, whereas the T150 seems a bit more plasticky. I'm sure either would be fine, so not a deal maker.

How does the gear & belt of the T150 compare to the two helical geared motors of the G920 in noise terms and feel - is either noticeably louder? I've read that the G920 can feel "grindy/notchy" due to the motors - is the T150 noticeably smoother? Similarly, is the FF deadzone an issue or is it very small and doesn't affect the feel materially? Again, I've read the T150 has little to no deadzone. Anyone with a G920 - does it bother you?

Are the paddle shifters of either overly clicky? Want nice solid feel without waking people up :)


I've also read somewhere that the G920 has problems with PC compatibility and with wires coming loose internally from the rotation of the wheel. Has anyone experienced this, or are these largely resolved now? Guess this is my main concern with the G920.

Conversely, how does the Thrustmaster T150 rate in reliability? A number of years ago I got a cheap wheel to go with my old computer running F1 Challenge 99-02 mod (Thrustmaster Ferrari Experience 3-in-1). The pedal spring broke in it (and its replacement) within a weekend, so sent back and never bothered with a wheel again until now. Are the T150 stock pedals now built properly? Though I didn't like that product, I realised that a wheel and pedal controller was fun, but also that force feedback is worth getting - the limited degree of turn was fine for an F1 game, but both the above wheels have nice 900-1080 degrees of rotation.

The G920 as I understand it has only 8 bit pedal resolution compared to 10 bit even in the T150 stock pedals - is this a noticeable difference?

The G920 has Hall effect sensors which I believe should last longer - does the T150 use these too?

Is the Logitech likely to last longer, hence being worth the additional outlay?

Desk attachments

The Logitech looks like it sits easily on a desk, I'm sure that would work with my setup. I recall the TM clamp being fairly bulky - has anyone tried it above a keyboard desk and does it work OK?

Finally, is there any real difference between the G920 and G29 on PC other than looks?

Thanks for your help and sorry for all the questions - I'm quite new to this, and want to make a decision I'll be happy with. Hope to join the Project Cars community in earnest soon!

The Logitech wheels g27 g29 etc are by far the best value for money. The only reason to go for the t300 is if you really need very strong force feedback. The thing about feedback is that most people who experience it for the first time find it too strong anyway and turn it right down; I know I did. The only way you'll experience the Logitech feedback as weak is if you go from a t300, t500 or one of the better fanatech wheels to Logitech. If you go the other way though you'll find the t300, t 500 etc way too strong. I think the contrast principle plays a significant role here.

Jussi Viljami Karjalainen
03-04-2016, 00:00
The only way you'll experience the Logitech feedback as weak is if you go from a t300, t500 or one of the better fanatech wheels to Logitech. If you go the other way though you'll find the t300, t 500 etc way too strong. I think the contrast principle plays a significant role here.Nope, I had been using the G25 for ages, moved to it from the black MOMO wheel, and always felt it was a weak wheel that required pretty fingertippy handling if you set it up so that it provides decent information. When I got a T500 I went "FINALLY! A wheel with decent power while still having headroom for good information!" I will admit though that going back to the G25 after having used the T500 for a while made the weakness even clearer, but I definitely had felt for years that it should be stronger.

Many people don't think of the G2X as weak, but many do as well.

LukeC
03-04-2016, 00:43
Nope, I had been using the G25 for ages, moved to it from the black MOMO wheel, and always felt it was a weak wheel that required pretty fingertippy handling if you set it up so that it provides decent information. When I got a T500 I went "FINALLY! A wheel with decent power while still having headroom for good information!" I will admit though that going back to the G25 after having used the T500 for a while made the weakness even clearer, but I definitely had felt for years that it should be stronger.

Many people don't think of the G2X as weak, but many do as well.

The issue is whether the Logitech wheels are strong enough for you. If not, naturally you'll go to something like the thrustmaster of Fanatec wheels. To be honest my perceptions are that the Logitech wheels provide similar kind of resistance as my road car with power steering. However, if I want more of a realistic experience when driving the lotus 98t or the Sauber C9 for example, I'll use my t300rs.

Having said that, I've had mates, my brother and a few of my cousins sample my g27 and they've all asked if they could have lighter steering, which I found surprising. For that reason I tend to think that unless you're a weightlifter and you're buying your first force feedback wheel, the Logitech wheels should be adequate.

Jussi Viljami Karjalainen
03-04-2016, 01:07
FWIW I'm definitely not a strong person by any stretch of the imagination, but it has been suggested that I have very good wheel technique that allows me to apply force into it efficiently and avoid putting myself into a position where the wheel could overpower me. Personally I feel that even the CSW V2 isn't really what I'd call "strong", even at full tilt it couldn't overpower me or hold a candle to a simple rental kart, much less something like a Champ Car that could require 20 Nm of wheel torque to hold them through a high speed turn.

But yeah, you definitely do have a point. The T500 is stronger in many ways than a modern car with power steering, and when I play I do adjust the FFB so that the power level corresponds to that well (which is nice because it leaves tons and tons of headroom for the wheel). You don't actually need to run the T500 so that it's always near it's peak power, the point is to set it up so that it has a decent force level for normal cornering and headroom on top of that for information. The problem with the G25 is that if you set it up like that the normal force levels end up very low, so you kinda have to choose between force strength and force information. This is especially hard with cars that produce a lot of DF, because the forces at high speeds can be a lot stronger than at low speeds, so if you set up the wheel to produce near peak forces at high speed cornering you'll end up with a very light wheel at low speeds.

Many people don't indeed want a lot of force, and many aliens run barely any FFB at all, so it's not a requirement for going fast, definitely. And I'm not saying that the Logitech wheels aren't adequate, they're great wheels and their only weak point really is the slow maximum speed of their rotation (which hurts their drifting capabilities) and the low maximum forces that make it a bit difficult to set them up to be linear and informative. Even with the low'ish forces they manage I prefer them to the Fanatec Porsche wheels that were stronger but very sluggish in feel, the sharpness and crispness of the G25 was a much better option for me. They're definitely great wheels and more than strong enough to have great driving experiences with, but they are limited for people who want/need a wheel that moves around quickly and provides lots of FFB information at decently high levels.

LukeC
03-04-2016, 01:36
FWIW I'm definitely not a strong person by any stretch of the imagination, but it has been suggested that I have very good wheel technique that allows me to apply force into it efficiently and avoid putting myself into a position where the wheel could overpower me. Personally I feel that even the CSW V2 isn't really what I'd call "strong", even at full tilt it couldn't overpower me or hold a candle to a simple rental kart, much less something like a Champ Car that could require 20 Nm of wheel torque to hold them through a high speed turn.

But yeah, you definitely do have a point. The T500 is stronger in many ways than a modern car with power steering, and when I play I do adjust the FFB so that the power level corresponds to that well (which is nice because it leaves tons and tons of headroom for the wheel). You don't actually need to run the T500 so that it's always near it's peak power, the point is to set it up so that it has a decent force level for normal cornering and headroom on top of that for information. The problem with the G25 is that if you set it up like that the normal force levels end up very low, so you kinda have to choose between force strength and force information. This is especially hard with cars that produce a lot of DF, because the forces at high speeds can be a lot stronger than at low speeds, so if you set up the wheel to produce near peak forces at high speed cornering you'll end up with a very light wheel at low speeds.

Many people don't indeed want a lot of force, and many aliens run barely any FFB at all, so it's not a requirement for going fast, definitely. And I'm not saying that the Logitech wheels aren't adequate, they're great wheels and their only weak point really is the slow maximum speed of their rotation (which hurts their drifting capabilities) and the low maximum forces that make it a bit difficult to set them up to be linear and informative. Even with the low'ish forces they manage I prefer them to the Fanatec Porsche wheels that were stronger but very sluggish in feel, the sharpness and crispness of the G25 was a much better option for me. They're definitely great wheels and more than strong enough to have great driving experiences with, but they are limited for people who want/need a wheel that moves around quickly and provides lots of FFB information at decently high levels.

It's interesting that you've mentioned "aliens" who set record times with hardly any forcefeedback because for some reason I cannot match my Logitech g29 lap times with my thrustmaster t300rs and t3pa pedals in project cars: I'm always 2 or 3 seconds per lap quicker with the Logitech without even trying. I think it's probably due to the weaker forcefeedback on the g29 which allows me to control, the car more easily on the edge and really feel it more because I'm not gripping the wheel as hard.

I think more realism with regard to force feedback definitely does make it more challenging and is not conducive to direct competition with " aliens" but obviously great at simulating powerful, high earo producing cars without power steering.

Jussi Viljami Karjalainen
03-04-2016, 02:04
Yeah, it can work that way, though it can go the other way as well. I've improved significantly since switching to the T500 despite having had the G25 for about 7 years before the switch, and having been playing sims for two decades. It is a highly personal issue.

And even if I was slower, I'd still take the T500 anytime over the G2X, simply because it offers me so much more pure unadulterated enjoyment with the more lively forces. =)

LukeC
03-04-2016, 02:34
Yeah, it can work that way, though it can go the other way as well. I've improved significantly since switching to the T500 despite having had the G25 for about 7 years before the switch, and having been playing sims for two decades. It is a highly personal issue.

And even if I was slower, I'd still take the T500 anytime over the G2X, simply because it offers me so much more pure unadulterated enjoyment with the more lively forces. =)

That's what I love about sim racing, and motor racing in general; there are so many variables and idiosyncrasies. Some drivers are quicker in a slightly understeering car, others like the rear end to move around a lot. Some are quicker with Brembo brake pads, whereas others prefer Carbon industries pads. No doubt the same is true with sim wheels and pedals, and it's a shame that it's so rare to find a specialist sim racing shop that allows people to try a variety of brands and setups before buying.

hkraft300
03-04-2016, 07:21
No doubt the same is true with sim wheels and pedals, and it's a shame that it's so rare to find a specialist sim racing shop that allows people to try a variety of brands and setups before buying.

Ducked into a local shop this weekend that stocks Thrust master gear.
All they had set up was a T150 on a playseat -_- didn't have other wheels even in the box at the shop: it all collects dust in the warehouse til they get an order online.
I'm seriously considering a T300 over a G29 now having read this thread.

LukeC
03-04-2016, 08:20
Ducked into a local shop this weekend that stocks Thrust master gear.
All they had set up was a T150 on a playseat -_- didn't have other wheels even in the box at the shop: it all collects dust in the warehouse til they get an order online.
I'm seriously considering a T300 over a G29 now having read this thread.

You'll just have to take the plunge and pick one. Ultimately you won't know which one you'll like better without sampling both.

The breakdown is as follows:

T300 - excellent force feedback very strong. Extremely crappy pedals which you'll have to replace with the t3p-pros.

G29 - excellent force feedback but significantly weaker than the t300. Excellent pedals with a new load cell- like brake pedal that feels very similar to the brake in a brand new roadcar.

Beyond that I can't help you.

hkraft300
03-04-2016, 10:14
Suppose I could bear with the crappy pedals til I can sort an upgrade, shifter and all.
I was keen on Fanatec gear but their product list has me confused. If the rims all have to be purchased with a au$1000 wheel base + cost of rim + pedal set, its way out of my budget.
Was just thinking t300 with fanatec pedals (they're load cell right? I've used load cell pedals before) but the adapter costs nearly $200 with shipping so... The T3PA Pro's may just have to do.

Chris Sercombe
03-04-2016, 10:28
What is the equivalent wheel to the Thrustmaster T300 RS but for PC and Xbox one ?, T300 is for PC PS4 correct.

LukeC
03-04-2016, 10:34
Suppose I could bear with the crappy pedals til I can sort an upgrade, shifter and all.
I was keen on Fanatec gear but their product list has me confused. If the rims all have to be purchased with a au$1000 wheel base + cost of rim + pedal set, its way out of my budget.
Was just thinking t300 with fanatec pedals (they're load cell right? I've used load cell pedals before) but the adapter costs nearly $200 with shipping so... The T3PA Pro's may just have to do.

I think you'll be very happy with the t300 with the t3pa pro pedals. $200 for an adapter is a bit excessive and I think you can get a load cell for the t3pa pros for that much. As for Fanatec, my experience is limited to a couple of sessions in a sim at the Clipsal in 2014. Yes they're great, but I'm not sure if they're worth that much money.

hkraft300
03-04-2016, 12:10
Cheers for the info.
Fanatec pedals aren't all that expensive, but putting together a current range for a set (minus shifter) its out of my league.
I mean if I had the funds and the man cave for a full hyperstimulator rig (sounds dirty, I know) that's a different story...

Edit: I'm pretty sure T300 are compatible for Xb1 too.

Chris Sercombe
03-04-2016, 12:16
Cheers for the info.
Fanatec pedals aren't all that expensive, but putting together a current range for a set (minus shifter) its out of my league.
I mean if I had the funds and the man cave for a full hyperstimulator rig (sounds dirty, I know) that's a different story...

Edit: I'm pretty sure T300 are compatible for Xb1 too.

No it aint, thats what annoys me so much, needing to buy new wheel just to play on a different platform, manufactures should not be allowed to milk us like this.

hkraft300
03-04-2016, 12:20
Agree 100%. The Fanatec stuff are compatible but they can't advertise or officially say it without Sony's approval.
Its smaller companies getting caught up in the MS vs Sony pissing contest to survive.

Chris Sercombe
03-04-2016, 12:54
Yeh i know you can buy the fanatec base that works on all for like 600, but then you need pedals and different wheels, works out expensive.

hkraft300
03-04-2016, 13:15
Ye au$1500 ish.
I can't blow it all on the wheel set. PSVR isn't far away ;)

doncarlos
03-04-2016, 15:06
I had the same problem last Christmas as you. I borrowed a G27 for about two months and it convinced me. But unfortunately there was not a single used one for sale when I wanted to buy one. So I opted for the G29 (it has more buttons than the 920). Its a really good wheel, and I didn't had any problems with it. It quiet, my girlfriend can sleep next to me if I'm racing (Honestly I make more noise with the pedals when I pushing them crazy :D). I built myself a racing chair/rig but used it mounted to a desk until I finished the build and I think a massive desk is required for comfortable use. I don't have a robust desk and when I mounted the wheel to it, my monitor shook due to the force feedback and my driving. Oh and I really like the smell of leather on the rim. I'm not saying this is the best wheel of the word, but I'm a satisfied customer.

hkraft300
03-04-2016, 15:17
You're saying that's with a G29, and the T300 is much stronger? Crikey.

morpwr
03-04-2016, 15:28
I think you'll be very happy with the t300 with the t3pa pro pedals. $200 for an adapter is a bit excessive and I think you can get a load cell for the t3pa pros for that much. As for Fanatec, my experience is limited to a couple of sessions in a sim at the Clipsal in 2014. Yes they're great, but I'm not sure if they're worth that much money.

Ive got the ricmotech load cell for the pros along with the larger 599 wheel makes the t300 a really nice setup. Highly recommend getting the bigger wheel. One inch doesn't seem like much but it makes a big difference.

Jussi Viljami Karjalainen
03-04-2016, 15:29
Eh, a desk that's not particularly sturdy (like he says, he doesn't have a robust desk) will move around even with a non-FFB wheel. =)

Chris Sercombe
03-04-2016, 15:34
I had the same problem last Christmas as you. I borrowed a G27 for about two months and it convinced me. But unfortunately there was not a single used one for sale when I wanted to buy one. So I opted for the G29 (it has more buttons than the 920). Its a really good wheel, and I didn't had any problems with it. It quiet, my girlfriend can sleep next to me if I'm racing (Honestly I make more noise with the pedals when I pushing them crazy :D). I built myself a racing chair/rig but used it mounted to a desk until I finished the build and I think a massive desk is required for comfortable use. I don't have a robust desk and when I mounted the wheel to it, my monitor shook due to the force feedback and my driving. Oh and I really like the smell of leather on the rim. I'm not saying this is the best wheel of the word, but I'm a satisfied customer.

Yeh i had a G25 then G27 a few years back when racing alot on PC, loved them both, but sold them when i was not racing much anymore, but now with Dirt Rally and Project Cars on xbox one, i have to get the G920 when really i want the G29, but G29 compatable with PS4 and not Xbox One :(, would have liked the extra buttons, not to worried about the gear lights thou :)