PDA

View Full Version : Are the modders taking this game to where it needs to be almost single handedly?



haydnbuzz
20-01-2016, 18:47
Firstly let me say I really enjoy PCars, Iíve racked up hundreds of hours and really rate many of the cars in terms of handling which for me is by far the most important thing. I also sympathise with the SMS team as they are always going to face a huge challenge fulfilling the needs of those who play this game/sim and the wide range of racing disciplines they want to participate in and the demands they individually require. Players on the forum appear to range from the vastly knowledgeable to those visiting the genre for the first time and this presumably is reflected by those playing to.

On the whole I think the SMS team has done an amazing job but admittedly I am a bit disappointed with recent patches in addressing certain issues. I will give them the benefit of the doubt though in that thereís been a big holiday in between patches and Iím sure the employees had families to spend time with just like the rest of us. The game has some glaring oversights in regards to features that youíd expect as standard in a racing game and contrary to this in my view some odd demands by the community for things personally Iíd personally view as not entirely necessary.

I would say however that without the modding community I wouldnít be enjoying PCars nearly as much to the extent I am doing. Iím aware they donít work to the same constraints the SMS team do although looking at the Third Party Apps & API Discussion forum thereís obviously large demand for some of the great tools created by some very skilled individuals and groups. I was disappointed in the latest patch release that certain things just were not there that Iíd hoped for particularly when SMS members frequent the forum regularly and to their credit respond to our questions. With good racing sims/games almost always enjoying longevity in racing communities Iím surprised to hear that support in various areas appears like it wonít last too much longer with the focus going to PCars 2. My issues around this would be if support stops with some apparent easier fixes. I was super excited to see the arrival of the Lotus DLC, as these are some of my favourite cars. The AI however is a lot to be desired with competition being embarrassingly slow, this video link below proves my point admittedly this is the Lotus 49 however it occurs with the 49c as well at circuits Iíve tested racing AI at 100% (example Silverstone). The competition is embarrassingly slow and I can replicate the result using the slowest tyreís available. Basically I shouldnít be able to give the competition a 40 second head start and still win over a ten lap race.
Example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4qgGo_L6w0
This was particularly frustrating as completion was strong prior to the DLC & patch that was released around this time. AI speed and some sort of delta time is the only thing I havenít seen much discussion within that part of the forum unless Iíve missed it entirely. Thereís certainly scope for improvement I think many would love to see from either SMS or Modís as in my view AI speed is certainly very broken for some car/track combinations.

There was also recent post by JetPistol requesting slicks added to the Radical RXC, demand was clearly there as those for adding slicks clearly outnumbered those that didnít in a vote. This was something Iíd imagine would have been pretty easy to implement. From some previous posts I was aware that there are tyre ďslotĒ limits but Iím sure the possibility was there for adding a new set of tyres. Fortunately it looks like a Modder may be coming to the rescue on this one if itís not something the SMS guys will address.

I think PCars absolutely stunning in so many areas and convincingly beats the competition for me in terms of vehicle dynamics and visuals. If the little things are going to be overlooked however free reign should be given to those dedicated modders who have the abilities and dedication to fix them and lets the rest of us tailor PCars to our individual requirements. The SMS team have done a great job but with limited resources and time constraints as a result focus shifting to PCars 2 there will always be shortcomings.

The past few weeks Iíve been massively enjoying custom grids whilst making use of a massively useful crew chief engineer, analysing my data with vrHive and using Pock Race Trainer to analyse lines whilst all along using a Jack Spade tweaker file and itís been blooming brilliant! Thank you Modders!

Jussi Viljami Karjalainen
20-01-2016, 19:01
I think the problem with the Radical RXC and slicks at least is that they'd put it completely outside the performance ranges of the Road A class, and since there's no mechanism in the game currently to change the class of the car depending on what tyres it's using (oh man how I'd love this feature!) or limit what tyres are allowed in a race, it'd make it an instant pay to win car in the class. It's fun having it in a mod, but from SMS's perspective their only option for including it would probably have been to duplicate the car in the list as a Road A car with the current tyres and some level of Prototype car with the slicks, in which case people would have complained that the Prototype version isn't a real racing car, etc. etc... Modders can help out with things to some extent though, which is good.

Ezuna
20-01-2016, 19:05
Do you have a youtube video of a custom grid? I'd be interested to see this?

Thanks

haydnbuzz
20-01-2016, 19:16
Do you have a youtube video of a custom grid? I'd be interested to see this?

Thanks

I don't I'm afraid, but I can confirm the Radical SR3 up against the Renault Alpine 442 is great fun around Silverstone! I'll post one if I make one.

Shinzah
20-01-2016, 19:23
I think the problem with the Radical RXC and slicks at least is that they'd put it completely outside the performance ranges of the Road A class, and since there's no mechanism in the game currently to change the class of the car depending on what tyres it's using (oh man how I'd love this feature!) or limit what tyres are allowed in a race, it'd make it an instant pay to win car in the class. It's fun having it in a mod, but from SMS's perspective their only option for including it would probably have been to duplicate the car in the list as a Road A car with the current tyres and some level of Prototype car with the slicks, in which case people would have complained that the Prototype version isn't a real racing car, etc. etc... Modders can help out with things to some extent though, which is good.

I think slicks would destroy this car for me. It's just so frigging fun to drive on its existing tires.

Weird for me to say because I'd like to slap the light proto tires on it and see it compete over there too. Nonetheless, I do love this car as it is quite a bit.

Anyway. Are modders single handedly doing anything? No.

Modders wouldn't have anything to work with if the game wasn't already allowing them the room they needed to work inside of. Also, the mods aren't super angelic songs from on high either. The AI lights mod, while invaluable to me, highlights the problems SMS ran into with performance and with the engine in general with some glaring bugs hence why it wasn't included in the game. And as a career driver, I can barely use custom grid because it'll bork career in a speedy speedy hurry. The modders aren't really fixing anything, just implementing unsatisfactory for release build workarounds using what already exists to them.

Not that it isn't great, it is, sure. I'm rather impressed with the quality of modification pcars is receiving and hopes it continues to get them. But mods aren't magically fixing the game by a long shot.

Not that the game really needed to be fixed.

Jussi Viljami Karjalainen
20-01-2016, 20:48
I tried Alex's mod, with the slick tyres for the RXC: While the car is insane amounts of fun with the road tyres, you could instantly feel the car hunkering down and getting serious when slicks were put underneath it. It was just blistering, and still a handful to drive (much like the SR8). Definitely didn't kill the car for me, but it's no replacement for the road tyres either. =)

Also tried the SR3 with road tyres. WHEEEE! =)

haydnbuzz
20-01-2016, 21:10
I tried Alex's mod, with the slick tyres for the RXC: While the car is insane amounts of fun with the road tyres, you could instantly feel the car hunkering down and getting serious when slicks were put underneath it. It was just blistering, and still a handful to drive (much like the SR8). Definitely didn't kill the car for me, but it's no replacement for the road tyres either. =)

Also tried the SR3 with road tyres. WHEEEE! =)

Very interesting to hear, I'm certainly going to give it a go. I'd bet money that these cars in real life get towed or transported to tracks and hardly ever see a road and live on slicks. I can't wait to put it up against the SR8 and others similar on equal terms. I really rate the Radicals and this should be a whole lot of fun.

Jussi Viljami Karjalainen
20-01-2016, 21:20
Very interesting to hear, I'm certainly going to give it a go. I'd bet money that these cars in real life get towed or transported to tracks and hardly ever see a road and live on slicks. I can't wait to put it up against the SR8 and others similar on equal terms. I really rate the Radicals and this should be a whole lot of fun.The mod needs updating before it'll work on the new version I think, and the SR3 thing was also something I asked of him to try out, not something that's probably going to see the light of day in the mod proper.

haydnbuzz
20-01-2016, 21:27
Ahh ok, thanks for the info I haven't looked into the details and will eagerly await the next version compatible for patch 8.

Shinzah
20-01-2016, 21:32
I'd place a moderate to small wager that many of the sold RXC's are tracked on road legal high performance sports tires.

And they are driven on streets quite a bit.

Slicks cost a significant amount of money, and it would be probably more beneficial to them to just get a race car if they are going to haul their track car with a full competition compliment to track days in order to spend even more money. I'm sure some people do it. But not all of them. Maybe a very tiny minority.

haydnbuzz
21-01-2016, 12:19
I'd place a moderate to small wager that many of the sold RXC's are tracked on road legal high performance sports tires.

And they are driven on streets quite a bit.

Slicks cost a significant amount of money, and it would be probably more beneficial to them to just get a race car if they are going to haul their track car with a full competition compliment to track days in order to spend even more money. I'm sure some people do it. But not all of them. Maybe a very tiny minority.

I'd personally disagree, I can only speak of my own track day experience and those times I've shared a track with cars similar to that the RXC. There aren't many cars admittedly too similar I can think of but I have shared track time with a few Ultima's which I'd definitely put in the same class/category. One Ultima I do recall arrived on a trailer on slicks and a full set of wets (along with an awful lot of jerry cans!) and parked next to us which is why I remember.

I've met plenty of SR3's out on track but these are fundamentally track/race cars and are race prepared and inevitably on slicks and as a result towed/transported.

Looking at the RXC track car order form on Radical's website it also looks like the cars are supplied with slicks and wet's as standard. I don't know if external links are allowed but the costs are for these slicks or wets is £262 each for the fronts and £282 each for rears. There are also a Dunlop Direzza which is road legal and looks as it's used as a control tyre in various championships which is admittedly cheaper at £129 each for fronts and £198 for rears. Whilst this would get you to the circuit I can't count the number of cars that I've seen on borderline legal tyre's either go off or scare themselves on track days and finish for the day as the result of modest amounts of rain, resulting in drivers scrapping their day (not cost effective). Then there's the Dunlop Sports Maxx tyre (more "normal" tread road tyre) which I've no doubt offers impressive performance in mixed conditions but I'm sceptical it could hold up to prolonged track abuse and it's for that exact reason why people look towards those tyres that are borderline legal if driving to circuits. In my view any owner of an RXC can afford a set of slicks and wets and probably arrives to a trackday by chartered helicopter whilst their team do the rest!

Whilst I frequent trackdays at the lower end of the market, it's predominantly hot hatches and Japanese stuff that drive to circuit and of those there I'd say there's at least half that arrive on trailer. There's just too many compromises with driving to a circuit for most and in my view more exotic machinery of which I'd certainly class the RXC is almost always arrives on the back of a trailer or transporter.

Obviously my experiences are skewed towards track use and I've no idea of the numbers driving on the road which must be a frustrating exercise imo not using anything like the vehicles performance. I'm not saying people don't drive them on the road but I'd guess they are in the minority. I don't know what championship the RXC is eligible for other than Radical's own but I'd guess most end up here. Even on trackdays you'd probably find an RXC a frustrating experience catching up to the back of slower traffic all day long as this car has serious performance. If I won the lottery I'd put my order in for the set of Radicals (and a Juno or two), these cars are fantastic IRL and in game.