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ramm21
21-01-2016, 16:15
So I got home yesterday and downloaded patch8. Took the GT-86 out for a spin on Dubai and this happens...



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLbLURdwWw0

I took the vid this morning, iphone+bad lighting= bad quality, but you can see my wheel and the wheel on screen going crazy. I came out of the pits and just coasted to the first turn. I barely touched the wheel, it jerks pretty violently side to side when going really slow. In this vid, the jerking was so bad it actually jerked me around the turn, I didnt have to even turn the wheel and I got around!

This is reproducible on every track and car combo I've tried. Dubai and Silverstone- GT86, m3 GT4, and both Group A cars.

I'm using Jack Spade settings, and it felt pretty good before this patch. Last night, I tried Jack Spade, default, classic, other random setups I found on this forum. I've calibrated my wheel a couple of times, turned tire feedback way down, nothing works.

This happens pretty bad when going slow. Sometimes it gets the car bucking from side to side so bad you would think you were playing a naval game on the ocean. Its not as bad when you speed up and drive near the limit, but its still there, and the problem is that near the limit when the wheel jerks, even though its not as bad it still unsettles the car and I lose grip.

I'm on PS4, G29.

Anyone experiencing this? Any help is appreciated

Mahjik
21-01-2016, 16:35
Usually this happens when using too much deadzone removal. What do you have that set to?

ELAhrairah
21-01-2016, 16:42
Seems to be happening to more people. Try increasing soft clipping.

Mahjik
21-01-2016, 16:43
Seems to be happening to more people. Try increasing soft clipping.

IMO, most people use way too much deadzone removal...

ramm21
21-01-2016, 17:04
I'll try messing with deadzone and soft clipping settings.

Still, there must be something in the patch, all the settings (Jack Spade) worked for me before, no problems. Now, I can't drive anything... Its like night and day (same settings between 7.0 and 8.0) the second you come out of the pits.

poirqc
21-01-2016, 17:10
When using high DRR, at least a 1/10th of DRF is needed. Below that, you'll get square wave around TDC. When using a high value of around DRR 0,16, a DRF of 0,029 make thing smoother around TDC. DRF is 5.5 times lower than DRR in the above example.

Good luck.

ramm21
21-01-2016, 17:16
When using high DRR, at least a 1/10th of DRF is needed. Below that, you'll get square wave around TDC. When using a high value of around DRR 0,16, a DRF of 0,029 make thing smoother around TDC. DRF is 5.5 times lower than DRR in the above example.

Good luck.

wow all that just went over my head...

Edit- Okay, I'm trying to learn what all those are. What is TDC? My mind keeps telling me it stands for Top Dead Center lol

DartRalph
21-01-2016, 18:26
I had this too...I updated to 8.0....did an online race and afterwards I drove a few career superkartchampionship-races, I received some PSN-messages, so I left the game, then after picking up where I left of, all of a sudden my wheel goes crazy just like in the video.....no changes made whatsoever.
Have there been any changes to the FFB in that upgrade 8.0??

poirqc
21-01-2016, 19:19
wow all that just went over my head...

Edit- Okay, I'm trying to learn what all those are. What is TDC? My mind keeps telling me it stands for Top Dead Center lol

Your mind was right! :)

Essentially, i was saying that as soon as you use any DRR, you should always use at least a small amount of DRF. Not to much, but just enough to smooth the transition from left --> TDC --> right --> TDC --> left...

ramm21
21-01-2016, 20:19
Thanks poirqc! I'm kinda starting to understand what deadzone parameters are and what they do.

I was so excited for 8.0 because I'm going to try my hand at tuning, but now i just hope im not stuck trying to figure out FFB for days again...

ramm21
23-01-2016, 00:05
So I'm having no luck getting rid of the shakes. What's worse, I can drive around any track using pretty much a quarter turn of the wheel. My hands never come close to crossing, they used to pre 8.0. Steering ratio doesn't matter, I've re calibrated my wheel ten times now, tried all kinds of settings.

It just seems like something is fundamentally off

diesel97
23-01-2016, 00:14
IMO, most people use way too much deadzone removal...

IMO after every patch something messes up on the FFB even though SMS never touched it in the patch . VooDoo

Maybe some one can explain a patch that was mostly proof reading changes but they some way some how mess up FFB

Mahjik
23-01-2016, 01:40
IMO after every patch something messes up on the FFB even though SMS never touched it in the patch . VooDoo

Maybe some one can explain a patch that was mostly proof reading changes but they some way some how mess up FFB

Could be something controller or platform specific. My G25 feels exactly the same as before the patch.

RomKnight
23-01-2016, 01:45
Friend with a T300 said the same oon teamspeak couple of days ago. Same thing.

I for one felt a tad more connection (probably because of pressure fix). The car i've tried now "dances" a bit more under braking especially cold. The progression of cold to hot and building to right pressure came back :)

poirqc
23-01-2016, 01:49
So I'm having no luck getting rid of the shakes. What's worse, I can drive around any track using pretty much a quarter turn of the wheel. My hands never come close to crossing, they used to pre 8.0. Steering ratio doesn't matter, I've re calibrated my wheel ten times now, tried all kinds of settings.

It just seems like something is fundamentally off

Do you have a logitech shifter? If you do, you could try to key combo to force it back to 900

Mahjik
23-01-2016, 01:52
Friend with a T300 said the same oon teamspeak couple of days ago. Same thing.

Which? That his wheel oscillates left to right like the video posted or that he feels more connected with the car?

ramm21
23-01-2016, 02:01
Do you have a logitech shifter? If you do, you could try to key combo to force it back to 900

Yes I do. What is a key combo?

poirqc
23-01-2016, 02:10
Yes I do. What is a key combo?

http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?22122-G25-G27-Wheel-Setup-Guide&p=1187633&viewfull=1#post1187633

ramm21
23-01-2016, 04:10
http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?22122-G25-G27-Wheel-Setup-Guide&p=1187633&viewfull=1#post1187633

Thanks for the link, but I'm on ps4 and have a g29 with the drive force shifter. I couldn't make a connection to anything I could do on my console.

ramm21
23-01-2016, 16:22
So basically any reset I've tried so far didn't work. I want to reload the game, seems like that helped people with similar issues. I have the game as a digital version on my ps4. If I delete it, can I download it with all of my dlcs without having to pay again? Or is there an easier way?

diesel97
23-01-2016, 16:33
So basically any reset I've tried so far didn't work. I want to reload the game, seems like that helped people with similar issues. I have the game as a digital version on my ps4. If I delete it, can I download it with all of my dlcs without having to pay again? Or is there an easier way?

For a lot of people deleting did nothing

ramm21
23-01-2016, 16:51
For a lot of people deleting did nothing

Well at this point it's the only thing left. The game is unplayable for me. I either wait for patch 9.0 and hope it's magically working again, or wait for AC in a few months.

RomKnight
23-01-2016, 17:35
Which? That his wheel oscillates left to right like the video posted or that he feels more connected with the car?


That everything is the same as before, read "no problems"

Mahjik
23-01-2016, 22:12
So basically any reset I've tried so far didn't work. I want to reload the game, seems like that helped people with similar issues. I have the game as a digital version on my ps4. If I delete it, can I download it with all of my dlcs without having to pay again? Or is there an easier way?

I have heard that some PS4 users had luck removing the game and their saved data, and downloading everything again (as well as starting a new player profile). I'm not on PS4 so I cannot confirm nor test this. The answer to your last part is once you buy it, you can remove it and re-install it as often as needed.


That everything is the same as before, read "no problems"

Thank you.

ramm21
24-01-2016, 16:49
For a lot of people deleting did nothing

Yep you were right. Delete and reinstall did nothing. I'm out of ideas now. Hopefully 9.0 makes things normal for me, otherwise it's goodbye pcars

TAGS Battfink
24-01-2016, 17:31
Does the g29 have its own degree of rotation setting like the tx? If so, is it set to 900?

ramm21
25-01-2016, 01:14
Does the g29 have its own degree of rotation setting like the tx? If so, is it set to 900?

Not sure about its own setting or how I would access it. The only thing I can do is calibrate the wheel in the setup menu of pcars. I saved it at 900 degrees, 270, doesn't seem to make a difference. I can still take a hairpin with only a quarter turn of the wheel.

Mahjik
25-01-2016, 02:15
Not sure about its own setting or how I would access it. The only thing I can do is calibrate the wheel in the setup menu of pcars. I saved it at 900 degrees, 270, doesn't seem to make a difference. I can still take a hairpin with only a quarter turn of the wheel.

Just to clarify, pCARS will automatically calculate the steering lock per car based on what your wheel supports. If the car in real life doesn't use 900 degrees, pCARS won't either even if your wheel supports it.

Gloomy
25-01-2016, 06:30
My wheel, a fanatec gt3 rs v2 did this once earlier today. I started the race and the feedback was all wacky like in your video, never happened before. I restarted the race and it went back to normal.

ramm21
25-01-2016, 15:56
Does the g29 have its own degree of rotation setting like the tx? If so, is it set to 900?

Okay, now I know what you're talking about. I downloaded the Logitech Gaming Software and plugged the G29 into my PC. It's set for 900 degrees of lock.

Sampo
25-01-2016, 16:10
With my G27, the lock is set by the logitech software to 900, but if I don't have the software loaded, the lock is defaulted to 180. I can change it with the button combination that was linked earlier and it's also set to 900 when visiting the wheel properties /settings via the control panel, even without the logitech gaming software (drivers are installed though). This is on PC. Some people say their G27 is defaulting to 900, but mine isn't. Maybe it's the same with the G29?

ramm21
25-01-2016, 17:04
If I had to bet on what the problem is (patch vs. wheel), I would say its the patch. The shakes and messed up lock all started after downloading the patch. The lock is set at 900 on the LGS, and also 900 on the wheel setup page in pCARS. All the cars have default steering ratios. The wheel itself is running the latest software..

We are pretty limited on consoles as to what info we can look at. When I have the wheel hooked up all of the buttons work perfectly and I can navigate with no problems, but if I go into settings the only controller the PS4 recognizes is my Dualshock. Is that the case for everyone on PS4?

I can't check to see what lock the wheel is set at when I have it hooked up to the PS4, only when I hook it into my PC and visit the LGS can I see that information.

Lethal 556
25-01-2016, 17:19
The Xbox 8.0 patch just released today and immediately I started have the same exact issues as you which I have never had before today's patch. As stated above by someone else I just put my dead zone removal and my soft clipping all the way down to 0 and it fixed my problem. Hope it helps you as well

ramm21
25-01-2016, 17:36
The Xbox 8.0 patch just released today and immediately I started have the same exact issues as you which I have never had before today's patch. As stated above by someone else I just put my dead zone removal and my soft clipping all the way down to 0 and it fixed my problem. Hope it helps you as well

Did it seem like your steering was way too quick, like not moving the wheel at all to turn? Or was it just the wheel shake for you?

I did try all kinds of FFB settings like the suggestions on first page, nothing seems to help my case... It sounds like the majority of people are not having crippling problems with this patch though

RomKnight
25-01-2016, 17:36
And take care of previously saved setups... I had to reset the Clio on Donington because of weird rattling (and something did change on this car for sure WRT to setup options, namely, camber)

chrisff87
27-01-2016, 15:35
I tried the game last night for the first time since patch 8.0 and I'm having the same issue, wheel shaking like crazy making the game unplayable. I am also using jack spades FFB settings and i never had this issue before patch 7.0 (i skipped playing after patch 7.0 due to other issues), and now it seems like I will have to skip patch 8.0 as well unless I can find a fix for this. It seems that every patch we get, while something gets fixed, something else gets broken.

RomKnight
27-01-2016, 17:02
Did you try to remove the tweakers?

ramm21
27-01-2016, 17:15
We are on consoles, we don't have tweaker files, we just set up our FFB with Jacks values. By the way, messing around a bit more, have a few questions.
When I go through the PS4 menus, I can't find anything that recognizes the G29. In the controller page, the only thing that shows up is my Dualshock. Is the console supposed to recognize the G29?
Also, when I set my FFB Master scale to 0, I can still feel the shakes. If you set the master at 0, isn't it supposed to get rid of force feedback altogether? It finally went away completely when I set both Master and Tyre feedback to 0.
Still have to clue about the 90 degrees of lock problem though.. At least I could drive without FFB if I can just get this fixed.

RomKnight
27-01-2016, 17:21
Damn it. Read you're using Jack's settings and again totally failed to look left (i really need to fix this :( )

Still.. did you try defaults and adjust the master scale to avoid clipping (and then proceed as usual).

We already got the "there won't be any changes again" (wrt to tyres at least) so I can assume that whatever ffb settings one uses from now on, it'll work onwards.

BTW, ffb changes when something changes in the tyres (obviously) so, now that they found the bug and fixed it, what once worked on FFB might be wrong now too.

Same when something changes on the cars as setups could be rendered useless as my Clio Cup setup for Donington but my "setup" was old so probably not related to this patch.

chrisff87
28-01-2016, 13:20
I tried the game last night for the first time since patch 8.0 and I'm having the same issue, wheel shaking like crazy making the game unplayable. I am also using jack spades FFB settings and i never had this issue before patch 7.0 (i skipped playing after patch 7.0 due to other issues), and now it seems like I will have to skip patch 8.0 as well unless I can find a fix for this. It seems that every patch we get, while something gets fixed, something else gets broken.

An update on my previous comment. After resetting the wheel settings to default and re-calibrating it, the wheel shaking is gone. I did 2 races and it seems to be working great, so anyone else with the same problem, I would recommend resetting the wheel to default setting and peforming calibration again.
Note that this is just under control settings, so all my FFB setups for each car are still intact, I didnt need to touch any of that.
Happy racing!

racesafegrandad
28-01-2016, 21:25
Your mind was right! :)

Essentially, i was saying that as soon as you use any DRR, you should always use at least a small amount of DRF. Not to much, but just enough to smooth the transition from left --> TDC --> right --> TDC --> left...

so whats DDR? and DRF? I am having the same problem.

RomKnight
28-01-2016, 21:52
Deadzone Removal Range and Deadzone Removal Falloff

i'll leave for other the explanation of each as i'm not sure I can make myself clear on this.

poirqc
29-01-2016, 01:08
so whats DDR? and DRF? I am having the same problem.

I'll auto quote:

Deadzone Removals(TightenCenterRange/Falloff)
A common agreement is that every wheel FFB motor has a deadzone. A place where it can't generate smaller forces. Some wheel have lots of it. Others don't. This is the first thing this document will show you. Without any calculation you'll be able to see how much of a deadzone a wheel has. In pCars, this is dealt with Deadzone Removals. Depending on you're Soft Clipping usage, you may not need to use much Deadzone Removals, if at all.

DRR = Deadzone Removal Range : You'll set this value where the orange line(Normalized wheel output) starts. You may move that value a small bit(more or less 0.01)
DRF = Deadzone Removal Falloff : Start with something like a 1/10th of DRR and try other values so the red line(Final wheel output) follow the yellow line(input).
** About the DRF, the ui doesn't show 0,00X increment. They are taken into account tho. You can move the value with the arrows.

As soon as you use Deadzone Removal Range, you must use Deadzone Removal Falloff. If you don't have enough DRF, you'll get a squared wave osciallation when going in a straight line. An easy way to tune DRR/DRF is to set DRR like mentioned above, DRF would be a 1/10th of DRR. After this is done, increment DRF until you don't feel a notch in the ffb on turn ins. You shouldn't need much more DRF before this is dialed. It's also easy to see in the telemetry hud. The point here is that those 2 settings are tied together.

Just did some quick test about wheel oscillation and acceleration.

When someone picks a given DRR, this is what happends with various DRF:

No DRF: Square Wave oscillation around center. It can tattle.
Not enough DRF: The square wave will go away, but you can feel a notch when turning from left to right quickly.
Enough DRF: The centre of the wheel feels right, no notch when turning from left to right quickly. It can help a bit with some rattling. The wheel should self align by itself when going straight, up to some great speed.
Too much DRF: The wheel will start to accelerate, before you go really fast, just by moving it a tiny bit and letting it go.

Hope this helps.

GrimeyDog
29-01-2016, 01:53
I first thought the change was in the Tire force so i tuned TF down to 90... The wheel was still very strong and heavy compared to what it was with 6.0 and 7.0... I,ve been adjusting the Game master FFB all week and still No good results....I use a fanatec V2 and i know that when the game master FFB is set too High The extra FFB current fed to the wheel is grounded out and dissipated as heat, I noticed that the wheel was running hotter than the norm which is usually 90*F to 101*F... i use a infrared thermometer to monitor wheel temp while Tweeking FFB or after updates to to Pcars to make sure I'm Not feeding the wheel more FFB input than it needs due to changes in the FFB system...After this update my v2 was running 15 degrees Hotter than Normal with My Normal same settings used!!!

For some reason it seems that the RAC power output has been increased:confused:... take a good Look at your FFB Graph i noticed even though i was Not clipping the Graph was a tad bit higher than it was with 6 and 7.0
The solution Turn down the RAC.... the RAC will will reduce the FFB power level without losing Dynamic range.

in this video RAC was set to 50 note how the FFB Graph stays to the middle of the FFB Box and the FFB strength was reduced according to the RAC value set. same test was done at 70, 90 and for each test the FFB line moved up the box according to the value set ex: at 90 the line move up to the 90% of box volume and the power of the FFB was also increased accordingly.

https://youtu.be/o7U3q2uKDuM


After i reduced the RAC my Normal settings worked again like they used to:yes::D

Yes i know some will be skeptical but don't knock it until you try it... Very simple to test.