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Ezuna
25-01-2016, 18:09
I love sim racing, have done since the days of GP3.

I've played nearly every one and even have a mint copy of Nascar 2003 in the attic.

I currently have AC, RF2, GTR2, GTL, GPL, Dirt Rally, RRE, Stock Car Extreme and a load more installed.

But for some reason I just keep playing pCars. I even watch the replays after a good race. Is it perfect? No. But nothing is.

Am I the only one that considers themselves a 'simmer' rather than a gamer, yet just keep coming back to this amazing 'sim'?

IJOJOI
25-01-2016, 18:19
Without a doubt ;)
Every Sim has it's strenghs :)

DreamsKnight
25-01-2016, 18:24
you can consider yourself more a simmer than a gamer, but i think you just keep coming back here for the fun. that is a gaming situation. you "sim" in a funny way. :D

Kitt
25-01-2016, 18:45
Well I thought I would see if the grass is greener on the other side and got AC last week,1 hour later I refunded it lol, just didn't like it,felt a bit dull and boring and the UI was giving me a headache lol.PCARS just feels a bit more frantic/mental,so thought if I'm going back to PCARS I'll ditch the controller and chase view and try a wheel and in car view,made the game so much better,although its going to take some getting used to after playing driving games with a pad for 23 years lol.So yeah, although its not perfect and they've ditched some features I was looking forward to its got enough good points to keep me playing.

BMfan
25-01-2016, 19:12
Well I thought I would see if the grass is greener on the other side and got AC last week,1 hour later I refunded it lol, just didn't like it,felt a bit dull and boring and the UI was giving me a headache lol.PCARS just feels a bit more frantic/mental,so thought if I'm going back to PCARS I'll ditch the controller and chase view and try a wheel and in car view,made the game so much better,although its going to take some getting used to after playing driving games with a pad for 23 years lol.So yeah, although its not perfect and they've ditched some features I was looking forward to its got enough good points to keep me playing.

I also bought AC when steam had a special around xmas time,i think it also took me an hour to get the game refunded.

nhraracer
25-01-2016, 19:16
Who cares if it's a "real sim" as long as you have fun? The politics of gaming today are terrible! I'll play any game that has something to do with racing cars!

IJOJOI
25-01-2016, 19:17
I love AC as I love pCars.
Roadcars/road tires are way ahead of pCars current ones...
But the Alternative Handling mod fixes this.

SharpEyez
25-01-2016, 19:36
I love AC as I love pCars.
Roadcars/road tires are way ahead of pCars current ones...
But the Alternative Handling mod fixes this.

What mod are you talking about?

IJOJOI
25-01-2016, 20:37
What mod are you talking about?

Currently in development ;)
Feels great!!!
http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?44077-Alternate-Handling-Mod-Discussion-Thread

I am also working on some Slicktires for GT racing atm ;)

Jussi Viljami Karjalainen
26-01-2016, 01:28
I love AC as I love pCars.
Roadcars/road tires are way ahead of pCars current ones...
But the Alternative Handling mod fixes this.Disagree, I mostly find the street tyres in AC very lackluster and disappointing. The main issue with pCARS road tyres for me is that they're generally a bit too high on grip, which AC manages to get better, but otherwise I find pCARS better. And indeed, the mod helps even out this aspect by giving access to less grippy tyres.

I'm not saying I'm right though, just that I disagree. =)

Cheesenium
26-01-2016, 01:51
I enjoyed both AC and pcars for different reasons. They are both really fun games, one thing I agree is, pcars is still a much better racing game than AC because AC AI is still fairly basic. It is improving at a rapid pace, though which it is good to see.

bmanic
26-01-2016, 02:29
I love AC as I love pCars.
Roadcars/road tires are way ahead of pCars current ones...
But the Alternative Handling mod fixes this.

Well.. I have to strongly disagree here. The current road tires are in my opinion much closer to reality than AC (though they upped their game a bit with v5.0 tires but messed it up again with the v6.0 tires). As I only have track experience with road cars it's the only thing I can judge somewhat accurately.. not to mention I've driven one of the cars featured in AC on track (BMW Z4, the exact same model) and let me just put it this way: AC has got some huge issues in it's model.. and I mean HUGE issues.

The general "let's just drive and mess around" feel of the pCars tires is vastly superior. Also the "let's put down a good laptime" is vastly superior as well in my opinion. However, once you want to do doughnuts and go berserk the pCars model shows it's weaknesses (and those weaknesses were almost removed in patch 6!!).

But yeah.. each to their own.

RaceNut
26-01-2016, 03:31
I find it interesting how we are able to adapt to various racing-sims given enough time. An hour or two is simply not enough time to judge any simulation IMO. I think we need to focus solely on one title for a period of - at least, a couple of weeks worth of daily driving to truly come to grips with the handling and the finer nuances of driving near the limit. When I have done this, I have found myself comfortable with the handling and can enjoy virtually any racing-sim at a high level. It's only when we go from one title to another in a short span where another title just feels all wrong by comparison.

After having played Project Cars for months, I struggled making a clean lap in AC for quite a while due to lack of perceived grip; after having played AC for an extended period, the grip in Pcars seems ridiculously high. In either case, once I'm well acclimated to a given sim, the handling seems "normal" enough and I can drive equally well in either one. I think it's quite correct to say "enjoy what you play and play what you enjoy". I'm enjoying as many as I can. :)

Krus Control
26-01-2016, 03:56
Well.. I have to strongly disagree here. The current road tires are in my opinion much closer to reality than AC (though they upped their game a bit with v5.0 tires but messed it up again with the v6.0 tires). As I only have track experience with road cars it's the only thing I can judge somewhat accurately.. not to mention I've driven one of the cars featured in AC on track (BMW Z4, the exact same model) and let me just put it this way: AC has got some huge issues in it's model.. and I mean HUGE issues.

The general "let's just drive and mess around" feel of the pCars tires is vastly superior. Also the "let's put down a good laptime" is vastly superior as well in my opinion. However, once you want to do doughnuts and go berserk the pCars model shows it's weaknesses (and those weaknesses were almost removed in patch 6!!).

But yeah.. each to their own.

Make sure to get the alternate handling mod. When you mess around with burnouts and small scale sliding the road tires are very close to reality. I'm pretty all the problems I thought were in SETA were actually just decisions that SMS made on how much grip they wanted in game tires to have. After spending some time with the mod I have complete faith in the power of SETA and it's ability to mimic reality.

nhraracer
26-01-2016, 04:11
I'm not sure i am happy about a mod that makes car control better! Doesn't seem quite fair?!

Jussi Viljami Karjalainen
26-01-2016, 04:25
I'm not sure i am happy about a mod that makes car control better! Doesn't seem quite fair?!It's not exactly about making "car control" better as such, it's more to do with having less grippy tyre options for lower end cars that more closely resemble tyres people actually use in real life. The pCARS default tyres are all really high end sports tyres, even the All Weathers have tons of grip for a road tyre, and they're a little bit too grippy compared to their real life counterparts as well (not by a whole lot though). What the mod gives is tyres that replicate normal modern economy road tyres (or even some sportier ones that aren't quite as good as the top of the line Michelin and Pirelli stuff), as well as an optional high performance tyre that's about the same level as in-game tyres but supposed to have a slightly different drifting behavior (while it felt different, I honestly can't say it felt any better or worse for me than the normal ones, just different). He has also started adding other fun stuff, like giving the Radical RXC Turbo a slick option (requested by many from SMS, but understandably missing since it'd ruin the car for Road A), vintage bias ply road tyres for some of the old/replica cars (by default the BMW 2002 Turbo and Mustang Fastback actually run 60-70s vintage bias ply racing tyres, not road tyres), that sort of stuff.

Cheesenium
26-01-2016, 05:22
Make sure to get the alternate handling mod. When you mess around with burnouts and small scale sliding the road tires are very close to reality. I'm pretty all the problems I thought were in SETA were actually just decisions that SMS made on how much grip they wanted in game tires to have. After spending some time with the mod I have complete faith in the power of SETA and it's ability to mimic reality.

SETA is actually made to be quite modifiable where you can change the conditions(ie grip on road or tire to dry/wet conditions to even offroad on sand, mud or rock) of the road or tire, the physics engine will simulate it based on the data given.

It is also why SMS scrapped the old analytical model after about 1 year of development, then, put in almost 2 years for a first principle based physics engine as SETA will make things easier to accommodate to your needs in the future. Like what the mod do in reducing tire grips and the possible inclusion of loose surface racing in pcars 2, you do not need to rewrite a new tire physics for it.

IJOJOI
26-01-2016, 07:45
Well.. I have to strongly disagree here. The current road tires are in my opinion much closer to reality than AC (though they upped their game a bit with v5.0 tires but messed it up again with the v6.0 tires). As I only have track experience with road cars it's the only thing I can judge somewhat accurately.. not to mention I've driven one of the cars featured in AC on track (BMW Z4, the exact same model) and let me just put it this way: AC has got some huge issues in it's model.. and I mean HUGE issues.

The general "let's just drive and mess around" feel of the pCars tires is vastly superior. Also the "let's put down a good laptime" is vastly superior as well in my opinion. However, once you want to do doughnuts and go berserk the pCars model shows it's weaknesses (and those weaknesses were almost removed in patch 6!!).

But yeah.. each to their own.

To Futter elaborate what I wanted to say... ;)
The driving itself feels superior in pCars IMO since AC'S tires always seem to lack sidewall strength.
BUT once you are over the limit AC's tires work way better with scrubbing off speed and being able to maintain a slide.
I have a bit of experience in the 1M Coupe and it it really shows the weaknesses of AC's slow speed physics.

Tje sliding however is vastly superior in AC even though not that good either.
You can't really keep the 1M in a longer drift in pCars, and the snap back is ridiculous.

All these problems are fixed by the new tires though ;)

Just to clarify nhraracer, the new tires make the cars way slower ;)

haydnbuzz
26-01-2016, 10:06
I also bought AC when steam had a special around xmas time,i think it also took me an hour to get the game refunded.

I did exactly the same thing with AC, their model of the Lotus 49 was completely laughable with far too much rear grip and being barely able to break traction or spin up the rears on corner exit even with the mighty DFV. I also double checked there was no TC on or anything anything to explain the arcade behaviour. It offended me so much I returned it within the hour to!

John Hargreaves
26-01-2016, 10:14
To Futter elaborate what I wanted to say... ;)
The driving itself feels superior in pCars IMO since AC'S tires always seem to lack sidewall strength.
BUT once you are over the limit AC's tires work way better with scrubbing off speed and being able to maintain a slide.
I have a bit of experience in the 1M Coupe and it it really shows the weaknesses of AC's slow speed physics.

Tje sliding however is vastly superior in AC even though not that good either.
You can't really keep the 1M in a longer drift in pCars, and the snap back is ridiculous.

All these problems are fixed by the new tires though ;)

Just to clarify nhraracer, the new tires make the cars way slower ;)

I guess if you are goofing around going sideways you're not going to be any quicker anyway so it's all good. Looking forward to it.

Azure Flare
26-01-2016, 10:16
I definitely subscriber to the SRS BSNS part of simracing, where i prefer to be.

And then I do things like this:

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/attachments/capturemurdermidget-jpg.94911/

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/attachments/captureendo1-jpg.174933/

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/attachments/captureendo2-jpg.174934/

Total professional seen here.

John Hargreaves
26-01-2016, 10:27
I had one of those in GT5 that I upgraded and tuned everything possible to the absolute max, spent tens of thousands of credits on it. It was fantastic; you could keep up with just about anything on shorter twisty tracks although it couldn't quite keep up with the big boys on the straights. Great fun though.

Azure Flare
26-01-2016, 10:41
Midgets are better in GT6. You can have a wing and NAWZ. I named mine Murder Midget.

cluck
26-01-2016, 11:12
I find it interesting how we are able to adapt to various racing-sims given enough time. An hour or two is simply not enough time to judge any simulation IMO. I think we need to focus solely on one title for a period of - at least, a couple of weeks worth of daily driving to truly come to grips with the handling and the finer nuances of driving near the limit. When I have done this, I have found myself comfortable with the handling and can enjoy virtually any racing-sim at a high level. It's only when we go from one title to another in a short span where another title just feels all wrong by comparison.Surely, a race sim should provide the user with something that instinctively feels natural and authentic right out of the box and not force one to relearn the whole process of driving?

It strikes me that, for far too long, many racing 'sims' require the user to learn their traits and master their weaknesses to give the user that feeling of accomplishment. It's wholly the wrong approach IMHO.

Maybe I'm biased, but I have always felt right at home with pCARS. It feels natural and reminds me of what driving feels like. It rewards my skill at driving, not my skill at overcoming the simulation underneath :).

SharpEyez
26-01-2016, 11:13
I love AC as I love pCars.
Roadcars/road tires are way ahead of pCars current ones...
But the Alternative Handling mod fixes this.

Since when did PC support mods? :confused:

IJOJOI
26-01-2016, 11:18
They just don't "officially" support it, but they aren't working against it ;)
Look into my Sig ;)
There are also some modes cars already (Gtr for example)

Look into the third party apps thread ;)

Jussi Viljami Karjalainen
26-01-2016, 13:25
To Futter elaborate what I wanted to say... ;)
The driving itself feels superior in pCars IMO since AC'S tires always seem to lack sidewall strength.
BUT once you are over the limit AC's tires work way better with scrubbing off speed and being able to maintain a slide.
I have a bit of experience in the 1M Coupe and it it really shows the weaknesses of AC's slow speed physics.

Tje sliding however is vastly superior in AC even though not that good either.
You can't really keep the 1M in a longer drift in pCars, and the snap back is ridiculous.

All these problems are fixed by the new tires though ;)

Just to clarify nhraracer, the new tires make the cars way slower ;)The sliding is in fact exactly what I disliked about AC's tyres for the most part, some tyres are better than others but some are really superbad (90s street tyres are a particularly horrible bunch). They have improved on them in recent updates though, and some of them are getting pretty good.

And I 1000000% disagree that you can't keep the pCARS 1M in long drifts (you can't do super high speed ones since you run out of grunt though), and personally I've always found the snap back on it to be very smooth and controllable. =)

bmanic
26-01-2016, 19:57
Make sure to get the alternate handling mod. When you mess around with burnouts and small scale sliding the road tires are very close to reality. I'm pretty all the problems I thought were in SETA were actually just decisions that SMS made on how much grip they wanted in game tires to have. After spending some time with the mod I have complete faith in the power of SETA and it's ability to mimic reality.

Agreed.. and for the record, I've never ever doubted SETA for one second. I've always had the opinion that it is by far the most advanced tire model out there (yes, even counting iRacing's model). It doesn't take a genius to see just how much potential this tire model has. However, I also agree with Niels Heusinkveld's rant about complex tire models (he wrote a great piece about the rFactor 2 complexities and how it will make modding a lot more difficult as it requires so much more math and understanding.. and can easily "blow up" or go "completely bonkers"). This is why we need to cut some slack for Casey, Doug and AJ. I say this while looking in a mirror! Though to be fair I'm a bit disappointed in how seemingly little thorough testing some of the tires for the DLC got. The vintage tires are still very weird.. the Lotus 49 tire has been weird even before beta testing began and many of us reported it multiple times.. to deaf ears.

Anyhow.. just look at the mess iRacing has been forced to deal with. I feel like their model is very similar to SETA.. except Dave Kaemmer has yet to reveal the full monty (he has been adding it piecemeal with each patch) and in the early stages with just the complex carcass and basic structures it was a complete disaster.

SETA is the very reason why I can't take people seriously who call pCars arcade or judge the physics as being poor. It immediately lowers their IQ by 50 points in my view. :)

SETA is also very sensitive to small car setup changes. Amazingly sensitive.. which means that one weakness probably shines through and that's chassis flex. Lack of chassis flex could very well be why the cars feel oddly "stable" in many situations where there should have been more "bounce" to the car. All the other major simulators have chassis flex (either faked through an extra spring or true chassis flex simulation) and this could very well be the reason for the "pCars suspension model is not as good as the other games" argument that people like to throw around (and which I partly agree with).

bmanic
26-01-2016, 20:08
To Futter elaborate what I wanted to say... ;)
The driving itself feels superior in pCars IMO since AC'S tires always seem to lack sidewall strength.
BUT once you are over the limit AC's tires work way better with scrubbing off speed and being able to maintain a slide.
I have a bit of experience in the 1M Coupe and it it really shows the weaknesses of AC's slow speed physics.

Tje sliding however is vastly superior in AC even though not that good either.
You can't really keep the 1M in a longer drift in pCars, and the snap back is ridiculous.

All these problems are fixed by the new tires though ;)

Just to clarify nhraracer, the new tires make the cars way slower ;)

The drift sliding and snap back was almost 100% cured in patch 6.. so it's obviously some kind of flash heating thing that was/is missing. Also the stock car setup is not good for drifting compared to the stock setup in AC. Just with a few tweaks you can do almost any kind of drifting with the car in pCars. I showed this back when patch 6 was released. Too bad they rolled back on it's awesomeness. To be fair.. I have not tried the 1 Series M in patch 8 yet. I'm having too much fun with the Formula Renault 3.5 at the moment. :)

As for sliding in AC.. it's just plain weird. The feedback and the way the car can easily go into a "infinite slide" at 20km/h just doesn't mesh with reality at all. At certain angles it's almost as if their model breaks down, especially at slow speeds. This an area where the sudden re-grip and snap in pCars is so realistic feeling. When you go completely sideways and have lost control, the way the car suddenly snaps back to stationary position is truly magnificent. NO OTHER SIM has this. None. In iRacing you have these slides continue basically forever.. you can watch the car still sliding with tires squealing at 10km/h on tarmac.. with large sticky tires and then gently come to a stop. No snap, no sudden grip+stop movement at all. Same issue in AC. It's one of those things.. one of those ques that something is very right in the basic SETA model that this kind of stuff at very low speeds just works.

IJOJOI
27-01-2016, 08:17
The drift sliding and snap back was almost 100% cured in patch 6.. so it's obviously some kind of flash heating thing that was/is missing. Also the stock car setup is not good for drifting compared to the stock setup in AC. Just with a few tweaks you can do almost any kind of drifting with the car in pCars. I showed this back when patch 6 was released. Too bad they rolled back on it's awesomeness. To be fair.. I have not tried the 1 Series M in patch 8 yet. I'm having too much fun with the Formula Renault 3.5 at the moment. :)

As for sliding in AC.. it's just plain weird. The feedback and the way the car can easily go into a "infinite slide" at 20km/h just doesn't mesh with reality at all. At certain angles it's almost as if their model breaks down, especially at slow speeds. This an area where the sudden re-grip and snap in pCars is so realistic feeling. When you go completely sideways and have lost control, the way the car suddenly snaps back to stationary position is truly magnificent. NO OTHER SIM has this. None. In iRacing you have these slides continue basically forever.. you can watch the car still sliding with tires squealing at 10km/h on tarmac.. with large sticky tires and then gently come to a stop. No snap, no sudden grip+stop movement at all. Same issue in AC. It's one of those things.. one of those ques that something is very right in the basic SETA model that this kind of stuff at very low speeds just works.

Fully agree, Patch 6.0 was a great leap forward for road tires too ;)

Fanapryde
27-01-2016, 09:23
I also bought AC when steam had a special around xmas time,i think it also took me an hour to get the game refunded.
I asked for a refund too, but I had it for too long (= more than two hours played)... sadly...

Edit: corrected.

Sankyo
27-01-2016, 09:31
Come on peeps, no need to turn this into an 'I got an AC refund too' thread. Plenty of people enjoy the game, let's stay positive a bit for a change? :)

Bealdor
27-01-2016, 09:32
Steam refund is period is two weeks (and less than two hours played), not two days. ;)

Fanapryde
27-01-2016, 09:38
Steam refund is period is two weeks (and less than two hours played), not two days. ;)
Sorry, corrected.

But this is a laugh:
"""""Valve will, upon request via help.steampowered.com, issue a refund for any title that is requested within 14 days of purchase and has been played for less than 2 hours. Even if you fall outside of the refund rules we've described, you can submit a request and we'll take a look at it."""""
They take a look yes...