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pgapro
26-01-2016, 16:34
Hi,

I am not an expert racer and I must admit that I think project cars is a fantastic game with nearly everything you can expect from a perfect racing game. When I bought it I was struggeling between Assetto Corsa and Project Cars and I am still happy I choose for project cars.

In the last days I have been looking around a bit in the forum because I wondered what to expect to come as DLC. Actually in some cases I am a bit shocked by the way that project cars 2 seems to take big influence of how the future DLC might look like. Let me explain a few things I do not understand and it would be great what others think about that.

First I read that there might be content planned for PC1 which is going to be used as new features in PC2. Now why should I buy a second game to get this content? Really I bought PC1 as a game, I have all the DLC packs, so honestely I have already paid the price for two games to get the content I have now. I can understand that people get mad when there is talk that features planned in project cars are transferred to a new version. When it comes to tracks what I see is as following,

Nearly everything which was planned is in the game except:

1) some classic tracks, I truly understand that in those cases there where licensing issues or the tracks where too time intensive to produce, okay, would be great they had come, but if it does not work, well not everything can be perfect

2) mugello, yes it seems a license problem as far as I can read that, okay, nobody can change that

3) ovals, there seems to be a problem with the AI strategies, okay that's technical and might not make that possible

but now I get to the point

4) ovals with infield should work or not? I mean some Mojave tracks are like Oval with infield part. I have seen some pics of Daytona and charlotte on youtube from early builds. So why not publish those. It is no true oval, so AI should not make the difference. And if licensing is a problem, Suzuka is in the game without licensing as well. So whats the point of not doing 2 or 3 of those ovals with infield? I would buy it!

Okay, they do not want to tell what is still coming, I do not understand that at all. I mean at the point where the DLC to come are limited, why not give people the idea what is still ahead. In my opinion holding back this info and at the same time discuss which features are to be switched to PC2 is not the best way to earn sympathy by those who have always been fans of this game. It smells more like not being honest to push people to buy PC2 and that is something they should not do because some people like me would then rather choose another game or not buy another race game at all.

I can understand that money has to be earned, I understand that project cars 2 has to be beter, but do not treat us as children, tell us what to expect to come or what your plans are. We can then like that or not, but we do not get the impression that we have not been told or somebody was not honest.

So far a great game, hope that the makers are going to finish the way they started with this game, to make users like it and be happy with what they bought.

gtz michael

Shinzah
26-01-2016, 16:52
Okay, they do not want to tell what is still coming, I do not understand that at all. I mean at the point where the DLC to come are limited, why not give people the idea what is still ahead. In my opinion holding back this info and at the same time discuss which features are to be switched to PC2 is not the best way to earn sympathy by those who have always been fans of this game. It smells more like not being honest to push people to buy PC2 and that is something they should not do because some people like me would then rather choose another game or not buy another race game at all.

I can understand that money has to be earned, I understand that project cars 2 has to be beter, but do not treat us as children, tell us what to expect to come or what your plans are. We can then like that or not, but we do not get the impression that we have not been told or somebody was not honest.


You can't be dishonest by being silent. Any perceived dishonesty is on the part of the person who is distrusting of the motives of others.

When SMS is transparent and plans change - Omg u lied to us !!!1111oneoneone horrible developer i want refand ogmwtfbbq im not rly 12 guise i swor
When SMS is silent - Developer is dishonest because of my feelings and inability to understand that sometimes, things change.

If you want the content, get the content. If you don't want the content, do not get the content. It really is this simple. They don't have to talk about it before it comes out. And the times they had, and schedules change or something in the content changes they've faced substantial abuse from users over it.

Features are being moved to Pcars2 because this game has been out for several months. It's unreasonable in this gaming environment to expect a game as part of a franchise to just continue to support the same game and same platform for years and years. At some point it's "We have done a significant amount but now it's just time to move on to our other projects."

Ovals/Rovals probably aren't coming.
Mugello probably isn't coming.

It doesn't matter if they work or not.

And how can a developer "Push" people to buy a game that's in development and not current open to any early access methods? At best they can "Push" people to WAIT for the release of pcars2.

Which is exactly what they *want* and *have* to do. Considering this is a product they are making.

What you do then is your own problem.

John Hargreaves
26-01-2016, 16:59
pCars2 is a massive engine rewrite with a ton of new features that the current version of the engine wasn't able to manage. Pretty soon they will start teasing the first of those and when it finally comes out in a couple of years you can make up your own mind whether it's worth it or not.

seb02
26-01-2016, 17:00
You can't be dishonest by being silent. Any perceived dishonesty is on the part of the person who is distrusting of the motives of others.

When SMS is transparent and plans change - Omg u lied to us !!!1111oneoneone horrible developer i want refand ogmwtfbbq im not rly 12 guise i swor
When SMS is silent - Developer is dishonest because of my feelings and inability to understand that sometimes, things change.

If you want the content, get the content. If you don't want the content, do not get the content. It really is this simple. They don't have to talk about it before it comes out. And the times they had, and schedules change or something in the content changes they've faced substantial abuse from users over it.

Features are being moved to Pcars2 because this game has been out for several months. It's unreasonable in this gaming environment to expect a game as part of a franchise to just continue to support the same game and same platform for years and years. At some point it's "We have done a significant amount but now it's just time to move on to our other projects."

Ovals/Rovals probably aren't coming.
Mugello probably isn't coming.

It doesn't matter if they work or not.

And how can a developer "Push" people to buy a game that's in development and not current open to any early access methods? At best they can "Push" people to WAIT for the release of pcars2.

Which is exactly what they *want* and *have* to do. Considering this is a product they are making.

What you do then is your own problem.
Indianapolis ? Annunced on website

Shinzah
26-01-2016, 17:03
Indianapolis ? Annunced on website

In what year?

seb02
26-01-2016, 17:14
In what year?
here
http://www.wmdportal.com/projects/cars/

Slightly Mad Studios is very excited to announce a major new addition to Project CARS as the world-renowned Indianapolis 500 Mile Race will be featured in the WMD-powered racing title.

First held in 1911, the Indianapolis 500 is the world’s longest-running motor race and “The Greatest Spectacle in Racing.” Each year, 33 drivers compete for their place in victory lane, racing 200 laps in high-powered open wheelers.

pgapro
26-01-2016, 17:19
Features are being moved to Pcars2 because this game has been out for several months. It's unreasonable in this gaming environment to expect a game as part of a franchise to just continue to support the same game and same platform for years and years. At some point it's "We have done a significant amount but now it's just time to move on to our other projects."

Ovals/Rovals probably aren't coming.
Mugello probably isn't coming.

It doesn't matter if they work or not.

And how can a developer "Push" people to buy a game that's in development and not current open to any early access methods? At best they can "Push" people to WAIT for the release of pcars2.

Which is exactly what they *want* and *have* to do. Considering this is a product they are making.

What you do then is your own problem.


Sorry that I did criticize something, but the reaction to me is not that customer friendly as I would expect it to be. I am working in a customer based sector for more than 20 years running a professional business with people really asking for good customer service, but "what you do then is your problem", sorry, but that is something I have never tolerated to tell a customer.
I would not have expected such a massive sort of answer, to be honest, information like that is so useless that this forum does not really make a sense then anymore.

This is written by a customer who really liked the game upto the point that he gets the impression that after several months and several dollars further he is not interesting anymore to the people as long as he does not buy the next version.

pgapro
26-01-2016, 17:22
Ah and by the way, I have never said somebody has lied to us, but saying nothing sometimes over one thing and at the same time announcing something else is the same, or gives the same impression.

Shinzah
26-01-2016, 17:23
226032

That's a long time ago.

I can already say that the information in the article isn't accurate to this title unless a question I recently asked Ian about the project cars career mode had some communication barrier. Ian said there was no current plans for more career mode content to be added via DLC. The article states that the Indy 500 content would be integral in the career mode.

Things change.

seb02
26-01-2016, 17:35
226032

That's a long time ago.

I can already say that the information in the article isn't accurate to this title unless a question I recently asked Ian about the project cars career mode had some communication barrier. Ian said there was no current plans for more career mode content to be added via DLC. The article states that the Indy 500 content would be integral in the career mode.

Things change.
I only talked about indianapolis track not career mode

Shinzah
26-01-2016, 17:36
I think you've entirely missed the point.

pgapro
26-01-2016, 17:37
226032

That's a long time ago.

I can already say that the information in the article isn't accurate to this title unless a question I recently asked Ian about the project cars career mode had some communication barrier. Ian said there was no current plans for more career mode content to be added via DLC. The article states that the Indy 500 content would be integral in the career mode.

Things change.

Now to be honest, I can not imagine that there is extra content to be made for the game, which is easily to understand. That would basically mean that there will not be any new tracks, I mean, more classic tracks are not to come, no ovals, no indy, no mugello.
There is nothing left anymore that could come or am I wrong? That would explain why nobody says something about future content because there is no more future content or am I wrong?

Shinzah
26-01-2016, 17:39
Now to be honest, I can not imagine that there is extra content to be made for the game, which is easily to understand. That would basically mean that there will not be any new tracks, I mean, more classic tracks are not to come, no ovals, no indy, no mugello.
There is nothing left anymore that could come or am I wrong? That would explain why nobody says something about future content because there is no more future content or am I wrong?

What is coming (cars or tracks) are teased on the official instagram or twitter accounts or (unofficially) revealed by poking around in the content files of the game.

Mahjik
26-01-2016, 17:56
That would explain why nobody says something about future content because there is no more future content or am I wrong?

There are still more DLC packs coming. There will not be DLC packs coming until pCARS2 ships, but this month is not the last DLC to be released for pCARS1.

seb02
26-01-2016, 18:06
I think you've entirely missed the point.

http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?43313-Questions-and-answers-in-here&p=1198957&viewfull=1#post1198957

So, Indianapolis track is still possible....

eracerhead
26-01-2016, 18:23
"what you do then is your problem", sorry, but that is something I have never tolerated to tell a customer.


Not the first time this misunderstanding has happened, but there's a distinct difference between "WMD Member" and "SMS Employee". Shinza is not part of Slightly Mad Studios and was speaking to you on a strictly personal basis.

artao
26-01-2016, 21:13
Features are being moved to Pcars2 because this game has been out for several months. It's unreasonable in this gaming environment to expect a game as part of a franchise to just continue to support the same game and same platform for years and years. At some point it's "We have done a significant amount but now it's just time to move on to our other projects."

Meanwhile, plenty of other games plan, and have, years and years worth of support and updates.


Ian said there was no current plans for more career mode content to be added via DLC.

And yet, "Coming Soon" is still right there in Career Mode. :\

pgapro
26-01-2016, 21:34
I am sorry, but after all the comments I read, combined with the fact that I do not get a propper answer at no point when asking about the future of the game, yes I finally decided to not spend more on DLC here, but in place bought another good racing sim, it allows modding and that means support will be long. The quality might not be like a DLC, but at least I do not get the impression that I have to be lucky to get content I want to pay for.

John Hargreaves
26-01-2016, 22:14
Thing is though, it's about much more than just content; pCars2 will not be exactly the same as pCars1, it will do things that are impossible to get into the current tech, and major optimisation and streamlining of the code will mean more free processing power to do cool stuff.
We're all hoping that much of pCars1 content will make it to 2, but there will be other stuff that will take the whole thing up a notch.

artao
26-01-2016, 23:07
Thing is though, it's about much more than just content; pCars2 will not be exactly the same as pCars1, it will do things that are impossible to get into the current tech, and major optimisation and streamlining of the code will mean more free processing power to do cool stuff.
We're all hoping that much of pCars1 content will make it to 2, but there will be other stuff that will take the whole thing up a notch.

That's all well and good, but if the support end of pCARS 1 continues as-is, it doesn't give me much confidence for pCARS 2. Particularly if support, especially bug fixes, don't continue WELL past a year. ... ... Not to mention the attitude and behavior of some devs and wmd members and mods.
In some ways I feel like I've purchased a beta-test for pCARS 2.
The answers -- all too often non-answers or outright ignoring or dismissal -- regarding customer concerns is disconcerting.

DreamsKnight
26-01-2016, 23:54
Okay, they do not want to tell what is still coming, I do not understand that at all. I mean at the point where the DLC to come are limited, why not give people the idea what is still ahead. In my opinion holding back this info and at the same time discuss which features are to be switched to PC2 is not the best way to earn sympathy by those who have always been fans of this game. It smells more like not being honest to push people to buy PC2 and that is something they should not do because some people like me would then rather choose another game or not buy another race game at all.

I can understand that money has to be earned, I understand that project cars 2 has to be beter, but do not treat us as children, tell us what to expect to come or what your plans are. We can then like that or not, but we do not get the impression that we have not been told or somebody was not honest.

So far a great game, hope that the makers are going to finish the way they started with this game, to make users like it and be happy with what they bought.

gtz michael

nouuuuuuu.

in gaming world: hype
in real world: marketing
fora sotware house: to create hype is a way of marketing.

and honestly: i love daily instagram images with news. i subscribe instagram recently only for this porpuse.


i respect your opinion, but honestly, about 5-6 days without whines and flames inside here. it is a record i think. and your topic is very hot. :hurt:

Jussi Viljami Karjalainen
27-01-2016, 00:16
WMD members are just members like any other, we're not official representatives of anyone but ourselves. The only difference between us and you is that we've been here longer, and that's it.

We also haven't gotten any confirmation that support for the game WILL be stopped, just that DLCs won't continue for too much longer.

Frankly I haven't yet seen a forum outside of some terribly small indie games where the devs themselves interacted with the users more than here. Not for any racing sim either. Usually the best you can expect to ever hear is "We've noticed your post and will look into it", if that, and SMS has done SO MUCH MORE THAN THAT multiple times over. Most games are also abandoned by their developers much quicker than the support for pCARS has already lasted, or the support has been at intervals of half a year or even more. Heck, many modern games release a new game in the series earlier than even the monthly DLCs for pCARS will have lasted.

What companies keep supporting their games indefinitely? iRacing? They can do that since what they're selling isn't a product, it's a subscription service, with a steady influx of cash. SimBin? They released new iterations of their games almost yearly (sometimes more often than that) as full priced addons for years (if you ask me, they were just releasing the same game with a few bits and bobs added every now and then for about 4-5 years, with less progress than SMS has done within these 7-8 months), as well as doing games for others based on their tech, until they got into the wallet gouging microtransaction game with RRRE. Fair enough, there's a place for that too, I guess, and it helps maintain a steady influx of cash so they can work on the same project for longer without having to innovate that hard. ISI had years between rF1 and rF2, but also almost no support for the majority of those years, and it's not like rF1 was bug free (and rF2 is one of the most buggy games I've ever played). The consumer version of rF simply isn't ISI's main business, it's not their priority. It's more a spin-off of the other stuff they do, and from my experience it feels like it. They're fun toyboxes but they're barely games. Kunos is a very small studio, so they can afford to run for longer on the income from one game, and the deal with 505 Games is probably helping them quite a bit. On the other hand they've already made statements about how AC will never have very big feature updates (no night driving etc. for example) due to the limitations of the engine (exactly the same reason SMS wants to upgrade the engine for pCARS 2 as well), and they've mentioned many many times how they want to start a brand with AC. Kunos is already working on AC 2 and probably has been for a while after the release of AC (just like most every game developer starts ramping up for a new project even before the previous comes out), they're just not telling anyone about it (SMS can't exactly do that since they wanted people to actively take part in the development). From what I've seen, companies that can actually support their games nigh infinitely are those that are run by very small companies that can survive for longer with less, companies where the game isn't their main business, or companies whose games have more long-term income models (subscriptions or microtransactions, which funnily enough pCARS was supposed to have originally, the community said "no" to that). And all of these, ISI, Kunos, SimBin and especially iRacing cater for a very small crowd, which gives them many liberties that games with a large audience lacks when it comes to the way they handle updates etc., not to mention the number of platforms causing its own set of troubles.

pCARS 1 isn't a beta for pCARS 2, but it is what it is: The first ever game of this scale developed from the start with crowdfunding and day 1 crowdtesting of every build in development, each build being scrutinized by thousands, with just about everything that's possible to show about the game being broadcast totally openly, including stuff that later got SMS in trouble because of early leaks. And because it was developed so openly, everyone had access to know about not only what the game would eventually have, but also everything the devs wanted to do, even before they'd actually tried to see if it was feasible within the parameters of the project. That means that all the stuff that all development teams fantasize about during development but no-one outside ever hears because they're developed in silence behind walls without letting people know about anything until it's done, all of that was visible. And people aren't used to this, and many considered the devs intending/hoping/planning/trying to implement a thing as a promise or guarantee that it would be in, which obviously won't be the case every time. And for some reason people already miss what is already there, and just keep wanting more, more, more, no matter how much they've already done.

Now, on the subject of the road courses: Yes, there were super early WIP versions of them in some of the early builds. At some point they were removed, don't know why. Could have been licensing, could have been prioritizing other things like actually getting the game released at some point, can't say. Why haven't they been released? Don't know for certain, could be that licensing fell through (wouldn't be the first time), or that when the ovals ended up turning as problematic as they've clearly been it didn't make sense to devote a lot of developer effort on them in lieu of other things. Point is that there's nothing suggest that they're done and waiting in the pipeline, and that SMS is just being mean when they don't release them.

Yeah, SMS has made mistakes. This was their first time they developed a game like this (truthfully the first time anyone did) and there was a massive learning curve overall. They can take that, learn from it, and improve in the future. pCARS is also the introduction of a completely new IP, and first goes aren't always perfect when they come out.

What doesn't make sense is pumping money and effort for years and years into an already released, expansive and overall very good game just to try and hit every single thing that they at some point wanted to do with it, constantly fiddling and updating it piece by piece, probably breaking it completely for a while every now and then when doing a bigger repair, all the while killing the company since it's just upkeep, not sales (it's not cheap to make a game, and it's not much cheaper to keep making it after release either), when it's apparent that they can do so much more and so much better by moving to the next version and going into full development mode where they don't have to care if it breaks down for a week every now and then while it's being built.

pCARS 1 isn't a beta of pCARS 2, it's a precursor. It was SMS's first go at making a game in this manner, and while they didn't achieve everything they and the audience wanted, they achieved massive amounts, the game is already fantastic with what it has, and already has more content than I can play in the years before pCARS 2 comes out. It sucks that they didn't get everything they wanted in, but shit really does happen, for any game project. Usually you just don't know about the failed shit, this time it was public.

Innerspace_HQ
27-01-2016, 00:20
Usually you just don't know about the failed shit, this time it was public.

That's one problem with public development. Somebody somewhere is watching and isn't happy with you, at all. ;)

artao
27-01-2016, 01:19
Good post Jussi. Thanks. Calm, collected, reasonable post. :)
I get what you're saying. But there's numerous bugs that the devs just seem to be ignoring, such as the replay system, particularly multi-player.
This tho I completely disagree with: "Most games are also abandoned by their developers much quicker than the support for pCARS has already lasted ..." .. that's simply not true. pCARS hasn't even been out a full year yet (official full release)
The rumors of ending support in four months need to be quashed or confirmed ... and I sure hope NOT confirmed.
Nor am I talking about or expecting indefinite support. But until pCARS 2 comes out? yeah.
I'm also not talking about new features really, more glaring bug fixes (again, replay system, MP mass disconnects, the "magnet bug") or certain omissions (such as custom championships, the not-good damage modeling, MP custom liveries, saving multiple setups)
I'm all good with the DLC. It's very reasonably priced and good quality stuff. I'd like to see that go beyond the middle of this year, but can also understand not doing that. The game already has a TON of quality content. :)
Sometimes tho, it seems like features or patches weren't properly play-tested. Okay, 1000s of people over a significant time were playing and testing and inputting on the game. Yet upon release it's known to have been a bug fest. And now the MP mass disconnect problem, which really ruins longer sessions. And the MP replay bugs, which makes using pCARS for league racing sketchy, at best.
Also, these forums have a reputation for hostility toward criticism, which is a shame -- albeit true all-too-often. Even from devs. Even from Ian. That's not cool either.
I just hope that SMS commits to getting this game as polished as they can before "abandoning" it.
Be well :)

Jussi Viljami Karjalainen
27-01-2016, 01:32
This tho I completely disagree with: "Most games are also abandoned by their developers much quicker than the support for pCARS has already lasted ..." .. that's simply not true. pCARS hasn't even been out a full year yet (official full release)From what I've seen, majority of games are either abandoned within a couple of months or (like I said in the original post) only get addressed every half a year or more. Only rarely do I see continued, steady paced patch support last for over half a year. Heck, I've seen plenty of games not receive a single solitary patch despite glaring bugs.

Cheesenium
27-01-2016, 02:33
SimBin? They released new iterations of their games almost yearly (sometimes more often than that) as full priced addons for years (if you ask me, they were just releasing the same game with a few bits and bobs added every now and then for about 4-5 years, with less progress than SMS has done within these 7-8 months), as well as doing games for others based on their tech, until they got into the wallet gouging microtransaction game with RRRE.

R3E is an interesting case because if they are not backed by someone with lots of funding, they are pretty much gone by now. The reason that game still exists is because there is an investor putting millions into that game's development annually in similar ways how some wealthy people put their money to run motorsports team, he put into a studio to see them make racing game. On top of that, R3E runs on a skeleton crew of about 15 people that cuts the cost down by a lot.

The content had always been quite infrequent but they always have good content coming up such as 60s touring with cars like NSU TT, Group C with Nissan R90K, VLN race cars like 2014 TT VLN or the upcoming Trans Am pack with Audi 90 GTO, Mustang and a 300ZX. Features implementation takes a long time, like multiclass is still not in the game after it was teased in April last year.


Kunos is a very small studio, so they can afford to run for longer on the income from one game, and the deal with 505 Games is probably helping them quite a bit. On the other hand they've already made statements about how AC will never have very big feature updates (no night driving etc. for example) due to the limitations of the engine (exactly the same reason SMS wants to upgrade the engine for pCARS 2 as well), and they've mentioned many many times how they want to start a brand with AC. Kunos is already working on AC 2 and probably has been for a while after the release of AC (just like most every game developer starts ramping up for a new project even before the previous comes out), they're just not telling anyone about it (SMS can't exactly do that since they wanted people to actively take part in the development).

And yes, 505 Games is financing them for their console version.

At this stage, I am not surprised that AC2 is probably in some early prototyping stage. The engine they have is way too limited for a lot of things where the engine does not support animations on the track side, inability to pick liveries in multiplayer and single light source for the whole track, for example. Even if AC supports the game for years(i say at most 3 years), it will be only largely DLCs with some small feature updates here and there.



This tho I completely disagree with: "Most games are also abandoned by their developers much quicker than the support for pCARS has already lasted ..." .. that's simply not true. pCARS hasn't even been out a full year yet (official full release)
The rumors of ending support in four months need to be quashed or confirmed ... and I sure hope NOT confirmed.

I disagree, most games out there abandon their support pretty much after release.

Codemasters games generally has little patches and most of the time, DLC support goes for the span on less than 6 months with not much bug fixing. Milestone games support their game on bare minimum with major glaring bugs still remained. Most AAA games have little support post release while DLC support rarely goes up to a year of constant monthly DLC releases. Even Reiza who was behind Formula Trucks that recently announced their new IP, Automobilista, they already have a sequel planned in 2018 where they wont support AMS for eternity. There are developers that nailed the persistent ongoing support like Blizzard, they are rare while they are wealthy company that could afford to run multiple support teams which SMS isnt one.

SMS isnt perfect but they had make the best out of the situation they are in. Ian had made it quite clear that DLC support will end in a few month's time, it is unfortunate and rather disappointing for me. It is just how the game industry works.


Nor am I talking about or expecting indefinite support. But until pCARS 2 comes out? yeah.

If pcars 2 was delayed numerous times like pcars 1, I do not see the reason why pcars 1 has to be supported to pcars 2 because it costs money and manpower to support the game for years. SMS isnt that wealthy or have sufficient manpower to do so.


certain omissions (such as custom championships, the not-good damage modeling, MP custom liveries, saving multiple setups)

A lot of those features above takes a lot of time to implement. R3E had showed their multiclass working in a video on April 2015 yet it isnt released till now despite it is close to a year by now. If a feature is simple to implement, developers would had done it ages ago without us suggesting them.

Features like damage modelling, MP custom liveries(AC doesnt even allow you to pick what liveries you want to use) or saving multiple setups had been mentioned that it takes a lot more work to implement. And doing that in a live game would bring back a lot of bugs and issues which will certainly piss people off. AC did a massive overhaul of their engine to support multithreading last year, that change alone had caused a portion of AC owners couldnt run their games for months properly that resulted a lot of angry customers. You dont go around changing some fundamental engine codes in a live game as it can be risky in severely deteriorating the game's stability.

Also, damage modelling is limited by manufacturer's terms and conditions. SMS's fictional cars has better damage modelling over some licensed content in the game.


Also, these forums have a reputation for hostility toward criticism, which is a shame -- albeit true all-too-often. Even from devs. Even from Ian. That's not cool either.

That pretty showed that you never spend enough time in Kunos and Reiza forums. If you are going to be rude, disrespectful or entitled, especially to developers, you are certainly going to be banned.

It is their turf, you have to play by their rules.

Silraed
27-01-2016, 04:49
Meanwhile, plenty of other games plan, and have, years and years worth of support and updates.


Meanwhile, plenty of other games never even get half the post-release support Project CARS has received.

Konan
27-01-2016, 05:27
For the OP....


http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?44338-Maybe-a-silly-question-but/page2
http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?43205-Another-thread-opened-Ian-is-listening&highlight=Questions
http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?43288-GROW-UP-PEOPLE&highlight=Questions
http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?43313-Questions-and-answers-in-here&highlight=Questions

Sankyo
27-01-2016, 06:56
I get what you're saying. But there's numerous bugs that the devs just seem to be ignoring,
The fact that SMS isn't telling everyone anymore what they are and are not doing doesn't mean that they are ignoring things. Absence of proof does not mean proof of absence.

It's already clear from previous responses from the devs that some things will not be addressed because of too high risks trying to fix or add things. That's a reality, unfortunately. However, since we don't know what they are still working on (not every fix is immediately identified and SMS have no obligation to keep everyone informed on what they're doing), some bugs may still get solved in the coming time.

Mascot
27-01-2016, 07:26
...some bugs may still get solved in the coming time.

You're talking about the Silverstone Classic pit bug, yeah? YEAH??

;)

Sankyo
27-01-2016, 07:27
You're talking about the Silverstone Classic pit bug, yeah? YEAH??

;)
Once the devs can actually reproduce it, they will fix it :)

cluck
27-01-2016, 07:50
Jussi's post puts the English of a lot of native English speakers to shame :o. It is also one of the most well-formed posts I've seen on here in a long time and echoes almost everything I could have hoped to say on the topic.

The only sad thing about Jussi's post is that I can only click 'I Like' once :(.

Mascot
27-01-2016, 09:22
Once the devs can actually reproduce it, they will fix it :)

If they can't reproduce it then they are using special magic hardware from the Mystical Land of the Gaming Pixies. The pit bugs happen every time on normal human hardware.

;)

Jussi Viljami Karjalainen
27-01-2016, 12:10
Jussi's post puts the English of a lot of native English speakers to shame :o.I read through it after taking a nap and noticed a ton of typos and clunky phrases, I'm not happy at all. Tends to happen to me when I'm a bit tired and writing while thinking three sentences ahead... =)
If they can't reproduce it then they are using special magic hardware from the Mystical Land of the Gaming Pixies. The pit bugs happen every time on normal human hardware.

;)I've heard the name of the bug but I've missed what actually happens, could you explain it to me so I can test myself?

BigDad
27-01-2016, 12:18
I read through it after taking a nap and noticed a ton of typos and clunky phrases, I'm not happy at all. Tends to happen to me when I'm a bit tired and writing while thinking three sentences ahead... =)I've heard the name of the bug but I've missed what actually happens, could you explain it to me so I can test myself?
http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?44179-Project-CARS-PS4-Patch-8-0-Release-Notes&p=1218211#post1218211
Post 111 and 119 .
Thanks .

This is on ps4 , not sure if its on other formats .

Jussi Viljami Karjalainen
27-01-2016, 12:38
http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?44179-Project-CARS-PS4-Patch-8-0-Release-Notes&p=1218211#post1218211
Post 111 and 119 .
Thanks .

This is on ps4 , not sure if its on other formats .Thanks. =)

Konan
27-01-2016, 14:10
Jussi's post puts the English of a lot of native English speakers to shame :o. It is also one of the most well-formed posts I've seen on here in a long time and echoes almost everything I could have hoped to say on the topic.

The only sad thing about Jussi's post is that I can only click 'I Like' once :(.

True...very true but you have to admit that everything in that post has already been said in this forum at one stage...
If people just used the "search" option,he didn't have to write a page long answer...
Never the less....thanks for the effort [Jussi]:D

cluck
27-01-2016, 14:38
True...very true but you have to admit that everything in that post has already been said in this forum at one stage...
If people just used the "search" option,he didn't have to write a page long answer...
Never the less....thanks for the effort [Jussi]:DSometimes it's nice to have everything in one place :D.

Konan
27-01-2016, 14:42
Sometimes it's nice to have everything in one place :D.

I can agree on that...now let's just hope that post eliminates future questions on those subjects so he doesn't have to do it again...lol
I doubt it though...:cool:

Sampo
27-01-2016, 16:53
http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?44179-Project-CARS-PS4-Patch-8-0-Release-Notes&p=1218211#post1218211
Post 111 and 119 .
Thanks .

This is on ps4 , not sure if its on other formats .

Did you notice that Ian and Stephen liked the bug report already. I think they know about it. :)

Sampo
27-01-2016, 16:53
Double post.

DragonSyr
27-01-2016, 17:19
is here someone with the ability to make a poll (i dont have this option) only for custom championships and saving multiple setups ?? (no other new stuff..... is the basics for every race title i think)
I think (and i hope....) that with this way we can have the attention of the devs.
if we collect a serious amount of users then something will be done.......

Mahjik
27-01-2016, 17:25
is here someone with the ability to make a poll (i dont have this option) only for custom championships and saving multiple setups ?? (no other new stuff..... is the basics for every race title i think)
I think (and i hope....) that with this way we can have the attention of the devs.
if we collect a serious amount of users then something will be done.......

That's exactly what this thread is for: http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?21985-Project-Cars-Ultimate-Suggestion-Thread

RomKnight
27-01-2016, 17:27
You can use the mod for custom grids

You can hope for a mod to save multiple setups...

DragonSyr
27-01-2016, 17:46
That's exactly what this thread is for: http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?21985-Project-Cars-Ultimate-Suggestion-Thread
thanks............ done!

You can use the mod for custom grids

You can hope for a mod to save multiple setups...

i know the custom grids ,for custom champ i hope :)

BigDad
28-01-2016, 02:07
Did you notice that Ian and Stephen liked the bug report already. I think they know about it. :)
Good !

Cheesenium
28-01-2016, 02:55
is here someone with the ability to make a poll (i dont have this option) only for custom championships and saving multiple setups ?? (no other new stuff..... is the basics for every race title i think)
I think (and i hope....) that with this way we can have the attention of the devs.
if we collect a serious amount of users then something will be done.......

I dont think custom championships and multiple setups are the basics for every racing title.

Most games I play on PC doesnt have either of them.

sergiumtz
28-01-2016, 04:19
To everyone that is bitching:

Just play the f*****g game, enjoy it while it lasts and when the new one comes out, move to that one. Jesus Christ it's like this is a matter of life and death. It's just a F****ING game. I bought every single DLC so far even though I played consistently with maybe 20 cars. I just support the guys and that's it. I rather pay someone a fiver every month for a DLC than buy a packet of fags.

Some of you are crying about nothing. 1st world problems, ooohhh what's gonna happen when PC2 comes out?!?! Whatever bro, chill, you'll still live. A good game WILL ALWAYS HAVE CUSTOMERS because I'd rather pay 100 pounds for PC2 that 50 for a big pile of crap that is Forza or whoever. Enjoy the game and relax.

BigDad
28-01-2016, 05:02
Sounds like someone needs to chillax .

Innerspace_HQ
28-01-2016, 05:12
relax.

That might have seemed like a solid piece of advice if it wasn't dripping in irony. ;)

Konan
28-01-2016, 05:13
Sounds like someone needs to chillax .

Yep...all the ranters who STILL don't understand that this game isn't going to get major changes anymore....
It is what it is and personally i'm pretty happy with it...
The concentration lies on bug fixing this one and on developing Pcars2.
I'd wish everyone would come to terms with it and concentrate on playing what they now have because it's just a waste of time and energy asking the same things over and over again....

artao
28-01-2016, 06:04
<sigh>
yes, by all means, let's all just shut up. no good ever came from speaking up
</end sarcasm>

I too am mostly happy with the game. For the most part, it is indeed quite fun, and the content (tracks and cars) is excellent. I think the DLC is very reasonably priced, a good deal. Career mode is cool, but could certainly stand to be a bit more fleshed out, deeper. ... Random rather than scripted weather (to me, the most annoying and disappointing thing about career)
However, the back-tracking on intended features, as well as requested features, is quite .... frustrating, to say the least.
Sure, they have to stop fiddling with things at some point. Accepted.
Not looking for major changes here. Okay, fine. ... I'd not consider most things I've personally talked about to be major. ...... multiple setups. fixing the replay system, particularly regarding MP (which is currently useless), addressing the dodgy damage model .... custom championships might be a bit more major, but championships are already in the game, and modders have already made an external custom grid app (thus it can be done, clearly) ... nothing else is really coming to mind at the moment ........ manual pitstops would be pretty major, I can see that. pit crews I couldn't care less about for this version, tho it's a shame it isn't there for immersion reasons. it'd look nice, but add no functional aspects .... the penalty system pretty much needs an entire re-work, so that's pretty major, yeah. (why they chose the "speed limiter" penalty rather than stop-and-go and drive-thru is baffling to me. who thought that was a good idea? :stupid: )
And of course the general bug fixing and overall polishing of the game. Again, in particular the current MP disconnect bugs.

Konan
28-01-2016, 07:18
I agree with you...it wasn't necessarily directed at you...tweaks and minor adjustments should be possible and as i said,the bugfixes are still priority.
It's just the major changes/implementations that aren't going to happen anymore but some people don't seem to understand that (again,not visioning anyone in particular)
So it's just no use people ranting about it...I understand the disappointment as i have been there myself but it's time to move on....

Bangtidy84
28-01-2016, 08:03
For some reason the latest dlc. I think its the 10th one and the latest patch, 8.0 does not show up in my steam account anywhere for download. Am i right in saying that it has been released? If it has does anyone have any ideas on what to do so i can get them both? Ive contacted wmd themselves but have had no response.
Thanks in advance

Konan
28-01-2016, 08:06
For some reason the latest dlc. I think its the 10th one and the latest patch, 8.0 does not show up in my steam account anywhere for download. Am i right in saying that it has been released? If it has does anyone have any ideas on what to do so i can get them both? Ive contacted wmd themselves but have had no response.
Thanks in advance

The patch is released...DLC on the 29th...
I don't know how to help you further though but i'm sure someone else will show you the rest....

Sankyo
28-01-2016, 09:03
To everyone that is bitching:

Just play the f*****g game, enjoy it while it lasts and when the new one comes out, move to that one. Jesus Christ it's like this is a matter of life and death. It's just a F****ING game. I bought every single DLC so far even though I played consistently with maybe 20 cars. I just support the guys and that's it. I rather pay someone a fiver every month for a DLC than buy a packet of fags.

Some of you are crying about nothing. 1st world problems, ooohhh what's gonna happen when PC2 comes out?!?! Whatever bro, chill, you'll still live. A good game WILL ALWAYS HAVE CUSTOMERS because I'd rather pay 100 pounds for PC2 that 50 for a big pile of crap that is Forza or whoever. Enjoy the game and relax.
Is the swearing really necessary to get this message across? I think it actually weakens the (true) point that you're trying to make.

John Hargreaves
28-01-2016, 11:15
Sometimes people get frustrated, but fair point.

aurel
28-01-2016, 12:18
Thanks to Jussi for an insightful posting. Thanks to Cheesenium for expanding on some of the stuff Jussi wrote. But there's something that rubs me wrong:


SMS isnt perfect but they had make the best out of the situation they are in. Ian had made it quite clear that DLC support will end in a few month's time, it is unfortunate and rather disappointing for me. It is just how the game industry works.

It is my understanding of "how the game industry works" that products are released as long as there are profitable. We're in the "long tail" phase of the product now, right? A game is released, gets a lot of attention, sales and usage in the weeks or months immediately after launch, then the bulk of the players move on to the next big thing, and the number of players that keep playing the game (or return to it after a while) levels off, usually it decreases slowly but steadily… at least that's my perception from games where the population is highly visible (like MMOs).

So, yeah, there's a point when new DLC doesn't make sense any longer from a business perspective, because the effort it takes to produce is not adequately compensated by the DLC sales (and, potentially, a small peak in sales of the main game generated by interest in the DLC).

I don't know shit about marketing and the value of customer retention, though, so I have no idea whether it's better for the sales of the next product in the IP to keep a bit of interest going by releasing DLC over the whole lifespan of the game, or if it actually makes sense to "let it go", so the next product can start a fresh "hype cycle". I don't know. I just chose to believe the former, because that allows me to keep hoping for the occasional piece of "marketing-driven" DLC, which is released to keep the awareness of and interest for the IP up.

(irrelevant side note: I'm going to buy tomorrow's DLC even though I have not much interest in it. I don't care for fantasy cars. But I consider it an investment, and I guess I have some kind of OCD going on there – as long as I'm actively playing pCars, it would drive me nuts to own everything but this one piece of DLC.)


If pcars 2 was delayed numerous times like pcars 1, I do not see the reason why pcars 1 has to be supported to pcars 2 because it costs money and manpower to support the game for years. SMS isnt that wealthy or have sufficient manpower to do so.

Now this is where I disagree. I want SMS to keep trying to fix at least the bugs they introduced post-launch, and, while I'm perfectly aware that fixing a lot of the problems is beyond the scope and technology of pCars1, I still want them to make pCars1 the best product it can be.

Not just because they want it to be an e-sport title, but mainly because I want to be able to stick to the IP, to enjoy it until pCars2 is released, just like I stuck with any Gran Turismo release I played until the next one was released.

Of course I might move to a different IP if one comes along that I like better, just like I moved from Gran Turismo to pCars, but as long as pCars is the racing game I enjoy most, I also want it to be the racing game that annoys me least. And some stuff in pCars really annoys me. Stuff that is definitely well within the scope and technology of pCars1 like UI bugs or cars that were working fine once and are bugging out now. And stuff that – given the limited knowledge I have – at least "should be easy" to fix.

I do understand why, for example, collisions can't be fixed, but I don't understand why we can't get necessary quality-of-life improvements for the handling of setups on PC (either import/export, or multiple setups per car and track) – this keeps me from enjoying a big part of the game. I spent so many hours tuning cars in Gran Turismo, and its setup UI only had two relevant differences to the pCars UI: it was relatively free of UI bugs and it allowed me to copy a setup, modify it, and return to the old setup when I felt I messed up. This doesn't affect performance, it's not about complex systems that need to be replaced, it's just a small UI improvement.

I think I understand why we can't get custom liveries in multiplayer in pCars1, but I don't understand why the bugs in the (already very limited) chat functionality in multiplayer aren't fixed, like the chat in the online lobby after joining a session, which is only updated when you first enter it, but then it just hangs, it won't display any messages you entered or any new messages from other drivers or the game itself, and that's more than annoying when actually trying to communicate with players who aren't aware of this bug (use the mouse wheel over the chat in the online lobby, and you get the impression it's just another case of a broken UI; we know the technology behind it works, because the tiny, tiny chat window you get on the track or in the pit monitor works fine).

By now, I'm well aware of the challenges here in the forum… any thread about a specific issue seems to get hijacked immediately by people complaining about missing or limited features (which is something utterly different than a bug), and, at least in my perception, those complaints get all the mod attention, while the specific bug seems to get ignored. Perhaps it would help to spend more time on the "known issues" lists, keep them complete and up to date, add states like "WON'T FIX" and "INVESTIGATING", then mods could just point to it.

Anyway, yes, I expect SMS to keep fixing the kind of bugs that are possible to fix without rewriting whole systems (ie. the "low risk, high reward" bugs) until the next iteration in the IP has been released or until all those bugs are fixed, whichever comes first. And I hope they might even bless us with some quality-of-life improvements. And I'm still hoping that multiplayer will get some TLC to make the e-sports people happy, and that my casual online play will benefit from that.

I would like to be able to add a "…and if they don't…", but there's nothing I can threaten with, I already paid as much as I could for pCars1 and pCars2. :)