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Casey Ringley
29-01-2016, 14:02
Ford Falcon FG V8 Supercar

Super fun car. It's slightly heavier than a GT3 but with less tire, less aero, and +150hp. Vital stats are 1400kg & 635hp. Weight distribution is limited by the rules at max 46.5% rear but is nicely adjustable up to that limit to tweak handling balance.

Rear end is a spool axle so out of the corner it has great grip right up until you spin both tires and then doesn't have much at all. This kind of arrangement prefers a different driving style than some of you may be used to; there is more performance to be had by squaring off corners somewhat and using the power to accelerate out earlier. Sacrifice apex speed a bit for the coming straight.

Gearbox is an Albins ST6 6-speed sequential with a fixed set of ratios (cost reduction by the series) and a few drop gear options which are mandated by track being run. Longest one has the car topping out at just under 300km/h. Suspension is a simple double wishbone setup all around and points were available in the 3D reference for us to use on the game physics model.

The soft tires (yellow sidewall) are really very soft, and drop off extremely quickly. They tend to be a good 2-3 sec off brand new pace after only 15-20 mins. The hard tires last a whole fuel stint and lose a second or so by the end. Softs are 1 to 1.5 sec a lap quicker then the hards when new at a track like Ruapuna (this car is awesome at Ruapuna!), but there is a cross over point in races so the hards might win out on a longer stint if fuel isn't required. The claim from Dunlop is that they wear out in about 80km, which is roughly half a tank of fuel.

Anti-roll bars are adjustable in cockpit and it is a very important thing to tweak as the fuel burns off and tires wear down. The car changes balance a lot over a full-tank run and one click on the bars here and there can make a huge difference.

Motion Ratios: 0.79 / 0.72
Damper Transition, front: 60mm/s
Damper Transition, rear: 60mm/s
Unsprung mass: 50 / 55kg


Mazda MX-5 RADBUL

Let’s talk about the elephant in the room first. :) This car is VERY difficult to drive and it was quite a cool challenge for us to model something so extreme in the game. Mad Mike and his team were fantastic is providing us the info needed to be sure we were getting an accurate representation done (and weren’t afraid to admit that the real thing is totally insane and difficult to drive). Some details about each of the sub-systems for it below.

tl;dr - Don’t think about using full throttle on this car, at least not until you have a good amount of practice.

The engine is a custom Mazda R26B with twin Garrett turbos. The R26B alone is good for nearly 700hp; default setup of 12psi (low) boost pushes it further to 1050hp. Rev limit is 11250rpm and that setting has you over 1000hp from 8000-11000rpm. Cranking it up to a high boost setting of 19psi gets you over 1250hp. We’re all fairly confident that matches the real car, but it’s difficult to say with 100% certainty as the real thing breaks dynos when they pushed it that far. Total madness. Power goes to the rear through a Holinger 6-speed sequential with a wide selection of ratios and drop gears and a 3.44:1 1-way locker at the rear. Haven't made the default setup a full locker, but more like a typical circuit racing diff with light power locking and more on the coast side. It can feel quite brutal trying to manage that much power when both wheels spin up so quickly. Good for initiating a drift, but not an easy way to learn the car.

Car weight is 2700lb per the FormulaD tire size-weight rule and there is little aero to speak of; just some very slight downforce from the rear spoiler to help stabilize things when sliding. The base car weighs much less than that 2700, so it is ballasted to 52.7% rear weight. Suspension geometry is all custom and based on a number of measurements I was able to get at the Orlando round. Steering geometry is interesting with zero caster, zero trail, and only a small amount of kingpin inclination. All about keeping the design simple for steering angle up to 78 degrees with minimal weight jacking and very basic feedback to try and keep the wheels pointed in the direction of your slide. It works quite well.

Suspension setup is very similar to what you'd find on a typical circuit racer. Wheel rates are kept quite even front to rear with no crazy toe or camber tricks, all with the intent to keep it predictable and balanced. Contrary to popular belief, pro-level drifting does NOT award you for using unorthodox and ‘bad’ car setup to make the car slide. The same rules as circuit racing, for the most part, apply.

New tires for it (Nitto NT05) are a modified version of our Nitto NT01 road tire with better behavior ‘post-peak’ to aid control when in a big slide. It works on some ideas which became apparent to our tire guru after getting to do some ride-alongs with Formula D drivers. Basically it adds lateral grip when sliding as a result of the tire surface turning into a gooey layer with slower response and balances with how it fades away from heat buildup.

Overall, this car is way beyond a handful. 1000+hp in an MX-5 takes a very light touch to manage and it is very difficult to do anything but slide around and spin in circles while trying to get used to it. I'd highly recommend practicing with the turbos essentially taken off the car (wastegate pressure=0) and building up from there. With no boost and the smallest air restrictor it can still make 520hp. That is plenty for an MX-5 to still get in lots of trouble. It's even pretty good fun to race around at that lowest power setting.

Motion Ratios: 0.66 / 0.76
Damper Transition, front: 51 / 75mm/s
Damper Transition, rear: 51 / 75mm/s
Unsprung mass: 39 / 41kg


KTM X-Bow R

KTM gave us a good amount of info and the most of the rest was easy to find on the interwebs.

It makes about 200kg downforce @ 200km/h. Pretty good for something that only weighs 790kg, but man(!) does it cost a lot in drag with the bodywork design they've used. It has 300hp, but is drag-limited to only 144mph; the BAC Mono, with similar power, can pull 170mph easily. That works out to more drag than the Formula Renault 3.5 needs to make 3x the downforce. Not the most efficient thing.

Engine is almost straight out of the A1 quattro with more boost to get it up to 300hp. Rev limit stops you at 7200rpm, but it's best to shift well before then. Dashboard display puts you in the redline at 6500rpm, and that's good shifting advice as power tails off above that rpm. Gearbox is also a variant of the original Audi 6-speed manual.

Suspension geometry direct is from the CAD. Nice, clean design. Simple double wishbones with just enough anti-dive/squat to let it run softer springs but not so much that it hurts the handling in mixed situations. There was also enough detail in the CAD to work out anti-roll bar wheel rates. Kinda neat. Default springs are standard from the X-Bow R and dampers tuned for typical circuit driving. Only unusual thing on the suspension is that they set up the car with some very long, progressive bump stops at the front. It gets into them at about 60mm ride height (from static of 100mm).

Set it to use the same tires as the Ariel Atoms. This whole bunch with the KTM, Caterham, Atom 300, and BAC Mono make a nice little group.

It's great fun to drive, supple and forgiving enough to let you use the weight transfer to your advantage and adjust the attitude of the car, but not so soft that it feels numb and slow to respond. Nice power to weight ratio, manual gearbox, and intense no windscreen open cockpit driving experience. Despite the low top speeds, I'm seeing times around 7:45 at the Ring and it could go faster.

Motion Ratios: 0.87 / 0.69
Damper Transition, front: 50 / 80mm/s
Damper Transition, rear: 30 / 80mm/s
Unsprung mass: 35 / 40kg


BMW 1-Series M-Coupé Stanceworks Edition

Here we took the modern time attack approach to stripping out the base car and doing mild modifications which all add up to a great track performance car. Engine is the same, but cranked up the turbo for 470hp and added an overboost feature when you go full throttle. It'll let you have 8s of 0.25bar extra boost and then 30s cooldown before firing again. That pushes it up to around 510hp. Gearbox is unchanged from the standard 1M. (Full disclosure: We missed that the 3D model had been changed to show paddle shifters even though it wasn’t in the plan to change the physics model over to a paddle shift sequential. Ignore the paddles for now and treat it like a normal H-pattern gearbox. We’ll get a full sequential installed on the car in the next update.)

Racing brakes and aero package are similar to the M3 GT4; suspension stiffness ranges from above average sports car to GT4 level and used the copy of Ohlins DFV dampers that have worked well on a number of other road cars recently. Set it to use that new Nitto NT05 tire by default. I like what this new tire is doing a lot; might be just slightly over-gripped for what it is, but not by a lot and the way it does post-peak handling feels super stable and fun.

Really fun drive and looks to be a good match for the Scion FR-S Rocket Bunny.

Motion Ratios: 0.96 / 0.57
Damper Transition, front: 51 / 75mm/s
Damper Transition, rear: 51 / 75mm/s
Unsprung mass: 58 / 66kg


BMW 2002 Stanceworks Edition

For this car, we decided to take the approach of tuning it up as if it were to race in Group 2 back in the 70s. The engine is swapped out to 2.0L M12/6 Formula 2 engine with 275hp @ 8500rpm. This was a common swap back in the day as a much easier and more reliable method of adding 100hp over the stock turbo unit. Those hadn’t developed quite as much as now where a simple ECU flash for more boost nets you easy power. Feels like a really good match for this car and does sound pretty damn cool up at 8k. Gearbox is the standard Getrag. Aero model adjusted slightly to represent the front air dam to reduce front end lift for a better balance. Suspension is lowered a bit and with a wider range of tuning to be had.

The tires we have it use are designed to be period correct, so it will be a match for (or slightly better than) the 300SEL at most tracks.

Motion Ratios: 0.95 / 1.0
Damper Transition, front: 80mm/s
Damper Transition, rear: 80mm/s
Unsprung mass: 39 / 41kg

KamyKaze1098
29-01-2016, 14:10
Thumbs up for admiting the error ;)

Great read as always.

RomKnight
29-01-2016, 14:13
The ARBs adjustment do seem to help quite a bit as it is often seen with the onboard cams and those who follow the series can confirm this.

danowat
29-01-2016, 14:22
Very nice to read again, just a quick question if I may, sorry if it's been covered.

Are the Nitto NT05 tyres available in other cars?

Casey Ringley
29-01-2016, 14:23
BMW 1-series StanceWorks and Scion FRS Rocketbunny can also use them.

Jussi Viljami Karjalainen
29-01-2016, 14:26
Thank you Casey, a wonderful write up once again. =)

And here's the bit where I become a whiney little bugger: Could you also post the unsprung weights for the Renault cars somewhere, pretty please? =)

EDIT: Man I wish all of these posts were as long... Or even longer. This is the sort of stuff that I want to see about every car, bound up in a big old manual. <3

danowat
29-01-2016, 14:27
BMW 1-series StanceWorks and Scion FRS Rocketbunny can also use them.

Thanks, so they are essential a drift tyre (or at least a tyre that is more forgiving at, and over, the edge of the grip envelope), so they only make sense on those 3 cars?

IJOJOI
29-01-2016, 14:29
I actually love H-Pattern cars, if I was you, I'd just keep it :P

bmanic
29-01-2016, 14:29
Well after a few stints around Bathurst I have to say the Ford Falcon is rather "tame" to drive. I was expecting a lot more trouble from this car having watched a lot of videos and playing the v8 series at iRacing. It does NOT seem to have "less tire" than the GT3 series.. on the contrary.

Anyhow, having said that.. trying to get close to the "lap of the God's" is a real challenge. I wonder if our track is a bit longer/more difficult than the real thing.. ehm.. yes, that's my excuse. :D

IJOJOI
29-01-2016, 14:32
Well after a few stints around Bathurst I have to say the Ford Falcon is rather "tame" to drive. I was expecting a lot more trouble from this car having watched a lot of videos and playing the v8 series at iRacing. It does NOT seem to have "less tire" than the GT3 series.. on the contrary.

Anyhow, having said that.. trying to get close to the "lap of the God's" is a real challenge. I wonder if our track is a bit longer/more difficult than the real thing.. ehm.. yes, that's my excuse. :D

My sensation too.. Once the softs are up to temp they have a lot of grip, you hardly run into problems when flooring it out of corners ;)

Mahjik
29-01-2016, 14:33
Thanks, so they are essential a drift tyre (or at least a tyre that is more forgiving at, and over, the edge of the grip envelope), so they only make sense on those 3 cars?

They aren't a "drift" tire per say. They are a new tire which has updated behavior just over the grip limit. Ideally, the other tires in the same category have the same tweaks but it makes it a safer change to only apply the updated model to a newer tire.

RomKnight
29-01-2016, 14:37
I hope we can get more of the new findings of the Nitto 05 on the other tyres if it justifies it.

Casey Ringley
29-01-2016, 14:40
Thanks, so they are essential a drift tyre (or at least a tyre that is more forgiving at, and over, the edge of the grip envelope), so they only make sense on those 3 cars?

I wouldn't call it a 'drift' tyre. It's more an evolved version of the NT01 tire using some new ideas which seem to be more accurate over the edge of the grip envelope. Still a fairly experimental thing, though, so we're being cautious about pushing it out to all cars.

Casey Ringley
29-01-2016, 14:43
Well after a few stints around Bathurst I have to say the Ford Falcon is rather "tame" to drive. I was expecting a lot more trouble from this car having watched a lot of videos and playing the v8 series at iRacing. It does NOT seem to have "less tire" than the GT3 series.. on the contrary.

Anyhow, having said that.. trying to get close to the "lap of the God's" is a real challenge. I wonder if our track is a bit longer/more difficult than the real thing.. ehm.. yes, that's my excuse. :D

It's not a lot less, but they are 28cm instead of 30/31 for the GT3s. The car itself, though, likes running much softer than your typical GT3 and that definitely makes it feel much safer to control. Lower downforce levels working for it there; similar stiffness in the Z4 GT3 would have you dragging bottom on every long straight.

KamyKaze1098
29-01-2016, 15:35
...

EDIT: Man I wish all of these posts were as long... Or even longer. This is the sort of stuff that I want to see about every car, bound up in a big old manual. <3

I sugested that already somewhere. And have the dashboards exlained. In some cars I don't know what numbers mean, like in some open wheel or lmps.

oufrider
29-01-2016, 15:42
All the car have good physics and I really enjoy this pack, but the radbull is really undriveable on drift , I don't understand the fact of making a drifting car to bring him as bad physical..

( sorry for the google trad )

havocc
29-01-2016, 15:48
My sensation too.. Once the softs are up to temp they have a lot of grip, you hardly run into problems when flooring it out of corners ;)

Idd but after 2 laps at Spa were at 65% wear

WizardOfOz
29-01-2016, 15:50
Idd but after 2 laps at Spa were at 35% wear

You are clearly overdriving the car , smooth is the name of the game :P

and yes it has taken me over 3 months to learn smooth race craft on pCars, all these years Forza has been lying to me ;) .. the smoother i am the faster my laptimes

Markus Ott
29-01-2016, 15:57
Holy, the V8 is so much fun. I had a flashback into iRacing times, the car dances and slides to the outside of every corner if you really push it.
You Aussies really did something right with that series, DTM cars look more spectecular but the V8 Supercars are true touring cars and behave like they should.
I though feel sad for all the gamepad users who will barely get out the full potential of the car.

resmania
29-01-2016, 16:13
I'm having a strange FFB issue with the Radbul.
If I turn more than certain degrees FFB clips out(sort of) and wheel turns full lock automatically. I have no problem with other cars except for occasional White FFB input issue.

Here's the video.

http://youtu.be/7w9sE0AI-98

Mahjik
29-01-2016, 16:14
I'm having a strange FFB issue with the Radbul.
If I turn more than certain degrees FFB clips out(sort of) and wheel turns full lock automatically. I have no problem with other cars except for occasional White FFB input issue.

Default FFB or are you using tweak files?

resmania
29-01-2016, 16:18
Default FFB or are you using tweak files?

JackSpades tweak file hasn't been updated so default FFB. :)

oufrider
29-01-2016, 16:20
I have the same problem too with the radbull, with my thrustmaster tx on Xbox one..

I try a lot of thing but nothing work to me..

resmania
29-01-2016, 16:24
Default FFB or are you using tweak files?


It's the steering geometry to handle large slip angles.

Saw your reply on the other thread. You might be right.. but still feels bit awkward.
Now back to pCARS for more practicing... :)

Silraed
29-01-2016, 16:31
So with the Falcon I was always under the impression that it was an active choice in designing the "cars of the future" that they would still require the clutch and manual blip on downshifts, along the lines of the drivers actually driving the cars unlike simple up and down paddles in most series now days. The car in game has an automatic blip though. Am I simply mistaken?

Mahjik
29-01-2016, 16:34
JackSpades tweak file hasn't been updated so default FFB. :)

Jack just updated his files so the Radbul is there. Apparently he is adjusting (reversing) the FFB to make it feel more like the other cars. I'm not suggesting that is correct or not, but you can try his updated files.

IJOJOI
29-01-2016, 17:55
Well, the FFB seems really off in the RADBULL!! The tires are great, allow for great drifts, (and as I have suspected suit the car better than the ones Alex Hobbs made because of it's crazy power), but as already mentioned the wheel just "falls" into the turn at a certain angle.

This is not like less friction, but its such a strong "pull" that it totally distracts you.

I understand what the FFB is trying to simulate on this tire, but this pulling is so strong (even when the car specific FFB is lowered to 18) that
my whole wheel is clipping like crazy...

Pamellaaa
29-01-2016, 17:59
Well, the FFB seems really off in the RADBULL!! The tires are great, allow for great drifts, (and as I have suspected suit the car better than the ones Alex Hobbs made because of it's crazy power), but as already mentioned the wheel just "falls" into the turn at a certain angle.

This is not like less friction, but its such a strong "pull" that it totally distracts you.

I understand what the FFB is trying to simulate on this tire, but this pulling is so strong (even when the car specific FFB is lowered to 18) that
my whole wheel is clipping like crazy...

Is it possible that its a real suspension effect of a wheel going past 45 degrees and being pushed towards its full extent when it goes past that? I have no experience of drift cars but from a physics point of view I could understand how that could happen.

IJOJOI
29-01-2016, 18:04
Is it possible that its a real suspension effect of a wheel going past 45 degrees and being pushed towards its full extent when it goes past that? I have no experience of drift cars but from a physics point of view I could understand how that could happen.

It doesn't happen on the modtires which are equipped to the car, clearly a tireissue ;)
*in terms of FFB being too sensitive to too much steering angle

DECATUR PLAYA
29-01-2016, 18:06
I have the same problem too with the radbull, with my thrustmaster tx on Xbox one..

I try a lot of thing but nothing work to me..

Same problem on a pad. My joystick on xbox reacts the same way. Turn a little bit to much and boom goes to full lock. I only played with it a little bit last night but it seemed that when you take a little punch out of it that it's not as bad.

zarg
29-01-2016, 18:32
BMW 2002 Stanceworks Edition
70's love :love_heart:

FS7
29-01-2016, 19:37
1000+hp in an MX-5 takes a very light touch to manage...
I'd highly recommend practicing with the turbos essentially taken off the car (wastegate pressure=0) and building up from there.
I tried this and it makes the car considerably easier to drive while still maintaining decent lap times, same goes for using restrictors.

Driving the Mazda using default engine & turbo settings feels like playing with a small really angry dog - it can be fun but I keep getting the feeling that it's trying to kill me.

Del Zotto x82x
29-01-2016, 20:07
I am a happy man. The job SMS did with Mad Mikes ride is amazing. The physics are just right and holding the drift feels just right. The smoke generated completes the package. Again keep up the good work and I really can't express enough how stoked I am.:cool: SMS hit this one outta the park!

Del Zotto x82x
29-01-2016, 20:13
Ooooops, sorry about the extra work. I hadn't seen anything on Mad Mikes ride so I figured it'd be a nice lil thread for those of us who enjoy drifting. Well that was my thinking anyways, either way I apologise..

Tompo
29-01-2016, 20:47
:( I prefer the H-pattern gearbox on the BMW 1-series M coupe SW though, I think it's more fun.

Cheesenium
30-01-2016, 01:39
I am not sure why does the 1M Stanceworks has a hybrid battery bar on the UI's MOTEC.

Screenshot shown below:

http://i.imgur.com/m7Wjy3g.jpg

I dont think thats a hybrid, though. Could this be a bug?

Mahjik
30-01-2016, 01:47
The BMW 1M StanceWorks has a 8 second turbo overboost feature. That's what the bar is showing. Per Casey's note:

It'll let you have 8s of 0.25bar extra boost and then 30s cooldown before firing again.

LukeC
30-01-2016, 03:37
Is anyone having difficulties stopping the v8 supercar? I've noticed that going into the chase at Bathurst the AI brake well after the right hand kink, whereas I have to brake well before, otherwise I end up well and truly in the gravel trap.
I've also noticed that the front brakes are usually almost three times hotter than the rears. So if the fronts are 400 degrees the rears will be 160- 170. This is with the brake duct open 50%. Is this normal?

danowat
30-01-2016, 07:57
The 1M Stanceworks is the highlight of the pack, really nice to drive especially with the new Nitto tyre.

The 2002 though, it's a bit flighty even with warm tyres anyone managed to adjust any settings to make it a bit tamer?

The Radbul is just utterly ridiculous!

balderz002
30-01-2016, 09:19
I made the mistake of taking the 2002sw round classic Silverstone as my first experience of this pack. Seems as default, the 2002 wants to swap ends all too eagerly, and on classic Silverstone, it seems circuits pre-1980's have no grip whatsoever! I think every corner of my opening lap saw me go all ballet and spin and pirouette. That's with power, no power and braking. No matter what I did. Took the escort out after, and I was fine. Looks like me and the 2002 have got to book a romantic weekend away and get to know each other a little better!

Salty Dog
30-01-2016, 09:30
Outstanding work Casey, thanks mate, awesome read, you sure know you stuff and im soaking it in like a sponge if you dont mind.

cheers

Jussi Viljami Karjalainen
30-01-2016, 09:54
The 1M Stanceworks is the highlight of the pack, really nice to drive especially with the new Nitto tyre.

The 2002 though, it's a bit flighty even with warm tyres anyone managed to adjust any settings to make it a bit tamer?

The Radbul is just utterly ridiculous!


I made the mistake of taking the 2002sw round classic Silverstone as my first experience of this pack. Seems as default, the 2002 wants to swap ends all too eagerly, and on classic Silverstone, it seems circuits pre-1980's have no grip whatsoever! I think every corner of my opening lap saw me go all ballet and spin and pirouette. That's with power, no power and braking. No matter what I did. Took the escort out after, and I was fine. Looks like me and the 2002 have got to book a romantic weekend away and get to know each other a little better!Checked the 2002 Stanceworks in the calculator, I think the issue is the almost critical rear bump damping at 3 in/s, while the front end looks pretty normal.

I haven't yet fed in all the data (had people over yesterday) so I don't know how soft you can go, but try something like 3200-3500 for the rear slow bump (and possibly around 7000 for slow rebound), that should help it quite a bit.

blot
30-01-2016, 10:06
Great DLC as usual Casey and cheers for taking the time to discuss.

balderz002
30-01-2016, 10:36
Thanks for the info Jussi, you might've saved me a weekend listening to Sade, in a dimmed room with plenty of scented candles, and a 2002SW............

Azure Flare
30-01-2016, 10:36
The Radbul is just utterly ridiculous!

Call me a masochist, but going into that car full-well knowing what it can do, I cranked the boost and headed out on Bannochbrae.

I need to go back in...

Jussi Viljami Karjalainen
30-01-2016, 11:09
Noticed a "bug" of sorts, brought on by the rather extreme steering rack in the Radbul and relating to how the game transitions from pause to live:

1. Stop the car.
2. Put on full lock.
3. Hit Esc to pause the game.
4. Hit resume.
5. WHEEEEE! (Car flies off at great speed.)

Guessing the way the car is initialized on the track (which has previously caused gear issues etc.) also interferes with the extreme steering rack. I also noticed that returning to pit doesn't fix the car, if I had my steering at full left while doing this, my left front tyre was damaged for all subsequent pit exits (car leaning to that side). Restarting the session solves this. Possibly the car tries to clip through the track while being initialized, which causes a massive shock to the wheel when it's pushed back, and ends up inverting the suspension in some way?

EDIT: Oh, and about the FFB: I think the issue with "reverse" FFB is because the no-caster + massive angle + super quick steering rack inverts the steering forces very quickly and suddenly compared to most cars (the centering force inverting DOES happen in real life when you steer way too much), or possibly just because the rack wants to self-counter really hard (and our FFB wheels aren't capable of not overshooting the mark). I had great success calming that behavior down by reducing the FFB Master Scale to 18 (even below) which makes the sudden and sharp transitions in the FFB nicer to deal with (guessing the sharp transitions are partly because of the lack of caster) and increasing the steering ratio to around 8.4:1 (which is still ridiculously fast).

Plage
30-01-2016, 11:15
Like somebody already said I also think the 1M is the highlight of the pack. Really fun to drive. Amazing how loose the tail can get with still having full control.

The 02 is great but the tyres are only good as burning road blocks. They're drastically reducing the capabilites of the car and the fun you can have with it. Something a little more sticky would be nice.

The Xbow is at least interesting to drive even if I think it reacts a bit unpredictable during loadchanges at higher speeds but that's maybe realistic.

Can't say much about the V8s except they drive.

The RadBul things is simply undriveable for me at least the way it's ment to be driven.

Silraed
30-01-2016, 11:33
I have tried to like the 2002 StanceWorks, I really have, but it just feels wrong like it isn't planted properly and the body is always rolling to one side or the other, I am useless at setups so I can't go in and see if there lies the problem. Just not my kind of car I guess. The 1M on the other hand I have warmed up to and I can say I very much like the new tyre, it behaves intuitively past the grip threshold.

I will also take this very brief moment in time to savour the feeling of holding the fastest lap record for a track though you aliens will smash it in a few minutes no doubt with your fancy setups. I have to say driving around Bannochbrae is the first time I have truly enjoyed driving the Formula A, though I ballsed the last corner and went into the barrier on my current leaderboard time and also didn't use DRS or KERS.

Plage
30-01-2016, 11:53
The 2002 though, it's a bit flighty even with warm tyres anyone managed to adjust any settings to make it a bit tamer?

For my time trail lap around the Nords I gave it a little more camber and made the stabs one click stiffer. I've reduce the brake pressure to 70% and balance to 55% IIRC because it was locking up way to early.

Jussi Viljami Karjalainen
30-01-2016, 12:20
Just tried the 2002 Stanceworks: LOVE IT. Fantastic car, at least with rear damper corrections.

I used the following changes:


Rear:
Springs 50

Slow bump 3200
Slow rebound 6600
Fast bump 2400
Fast rebound 3600

This should help calm down the tail to where it can still come out but not all the time, and be enjoyable when it does. For extra stability you can increase either preload or dec lock, both of which are fairly low by default, making the car very nimble off the throttle.

The tyres also seem to be pretty spot on for 70s touring car slicks.

I've so far tried the Radbul and the 2002, and have enjoyed both immensely. The Radbul will take quite a while to tame, but it shows promise of greatness, and tunes down well by reducing the boost and making steering setup more normal (caster and steering ratio to more "usual" ranges), will make a fun track car as well as a hooner. =)

EDIT: Oh, and I noticed that the 2002 Stanceworks has the steering wheel off to the left. I was about to "complain" about it, but moving the camera around in the cockpit it seems like it's a design decision, the camera is definitely where the driver's head is, an the driver is sitting on the seat properly. The whole seat if offset to the left compared to the wheel, so it's similar to the Lotus 49, the wheel isn't supposed to be right in front of the driver.

BigDad
30-01-2016, 12:28
Jussi thanks , can you do this for all cars lol, as i dont have a pc and you calculator wont load on my samsung gal s4 ?

Jussi Viljami Karjalainen
30-01-2016, 12:44
Jussi thanks , can you do this for all cars lol, as i dont have a pc and you calculator wont load on my samsung gal s4 ?Calculator isn't updated yet with the newest cars anyway. =)

So far I haven't really needed it for the other cars, they've worked right out of the box (only one I haven't tried yet is the Falcon).

Jussi Viljami Karjalainen
30-01-2016, 12:45
Casey: Am I right in assuming that the BMW 1M Stanceworks retains the base car's separate damper motion ratio? The default dampers look super soft at the rear unless I use the 1M's damper motion ratio, and look perfect when using them.

Casey Ringley
30-01-2016, 13:30
Oh yes that's right. It is the standard 1M rear suspension with different motion ratio for the damper.

Jussi Viljami Karjalainen
30-01-2016, 14:04
Oh yes that's right. It is the standard 1M rear suspension with different motion ratio for the damper.Cool, thanks for the confirmation. I thought you may have gone coilover when you posted only one motion ratio for the rear. =)

RoccoTTS
30-01-2016, 14:31
Just tried the 2002 Stanceworks: LOVE IT. Fantastic car, at least with rear damper corrections.

I used the following changes:


Rear:
Springs 50

Slow bump 3200
Slow rebound 6600
Fast bump 2400
Fast rebound 3600

This should help calm down the tail to where it can still come out but not all the time, and be enjoyable when it does. For extra stability you can increase either preload or dec lock, both of which are fairly low by default, making the car very nimble off the throttle.

The tyres also seem to be pretty spot on for 70s touring car slicks.

I've so far tried the Radbul and the 2002, and have enjoyed both immensely. The Radbul will take quite a while to tame, but it shows promise of greatness, and tunes down well by reducing the boost and making steering setup more normal (caster and steering ratio to more "usual" ranges), will make a fun track car as well as a hooner. =)

EDIT: Oh, and I noticed that the 2002 Stanceworks has the steering wheel off to the left. I was about to "complain" about it, but moving the camera around in the cockpit it seems like it's a design decision, the camera is definitely where the driver's head is, an the driver is sitting on the seat properly. The whole seat if offset to the left compared to the wheel, so it's similar to the Lotus 49, the wheel isn't supposed to be right in front of the driver.

Thanks Jussi, it's more controllable with these settings.

mister dog
30-01-2016, 16:41
Yup thanks indeed, on default settings the 2002 is pretty much undriveable. Can't take one corner with it without facing the sheeps @ Bannochbrae :).

bmanic
31-01-2016, 04:18
BMW 2002 Stanceworks Edition

For this car, we decided to take the approach of tuning it up as if it were to race in Group 2 back in the 70s. The engine is swapped out to 2.0L M12/6 Formula 2 engine with 275hp @ 8500rpm. This was a common swap back in the day as a much easier and more reliable method of adding 100hp over the stock turbo unit. Those hadn’t developed quite as much as now where a simple ECU flash for more boost nets you easy power. Feels like a really good match for this car and does sound pretty damn cool up at 8k. Gearbox is the standard Getrag. Aero model adjusted slightly to represent the front air dam to reduce front end lift for a better balance. Suspension is lowered a bit and with a wider range of tuning to be had.

The tires we have it use are designed to be period correct, so it will be a match for (or slightly better than) the 300SEL at most tracks.

Motion Ratios: 0.95 / 1.0
Damper Transition, front: 80mm/s
Damper Transition, rear: 80mm/s
Unsprung mass: 39 / 41kg

This may be my favorite car in Project CARS. It is INSANE how awesome it is to drive. I had to tweak the default setup a bit (lower camber front than rear and lower tire pressures rear.. basically gave it a lot more grip at the rear in general) but once I got it nailed it quickly became an absolute joy to drive!

2:43:xxx at the new track and I've still got at least 2 or 3 seconds to find (how the hell did that SETHONMETH dude get a 2:37:xxx ????).

FFB tip for all: I found the car a lot easier to handle with an Arm Angle of 2800 (yes, I know.. it's a large value but trust me on this one) and slightly lowering the Fy to 70 and increasing Fz to 120. Now I can handle ALL the slides, even extreme ones at almost 80 degrees angle of attack!

The new track is also an instant classic! It's got such an amazing flow and the road isn't too wide and exaggerated as some of the other street tracks we have. Sure, it's a bit too wide to be believable but at least it isn't screaming "this is unrealistic!!" at me this time. :)

So far I've had an absolute blast with the new DLC.

bmanic
31-01-2016, 04:22
Just tried the 2002 Stanceworks: LOVE IT. Fantastic car, at least with rear damper corrections.

I used the following changes:


Rear:
Springs 50

Slow bump 3200
Slow rebound 6600
Fast bump 2400
Fast rebound 3600

This should help calm down the tail to where it can still come out but not all the time, and be enjoyable when it does. For extra stability you can increase either preload or dec lock, both of which are fairly low by default, making the car very nimble off the throttle.

The tyres also seem to be pretty spot on for 70s touring car slicks.

I've so far tried the Radbul and the 2002, and have enjoyed both immensely. The Radbul will take quite a while to tame, but it shows promise of greatness, and tunes down well by reducing the boost and making steering setup more normal (caster and steering ratio to more "usual" ranges), will make a fun track car as well as a hooner. =)

EDIT: Oh, and I noticed that the 2002 Stanceworks has the steering wheel off to the left. I was about to "complain" about it, but moving the camera around in the cockpit it seems like it's a design decision, the camera is definitely where the driver's head is, an the driver is sitting on the seat properly. The whole seat if offset to the left compared to the wheel, so it's similar to the Lotus 49, the wheel isn't supposed to be right in front of the driver.

Gotta try your settings!

I fixed the rear end by setting rear camber to -2.0 and front to -1.4.. then tire pressures 2.10 front and 1.80 rear. I also set the differential acc. to 70% to make it easier to step on the loud pedal. Like you I also softened the rear a bit (and I actually stiffened the front springs as well).

I'm really really REALLY liking this car + new track combo. Epic fun! I feel like it's a car that takes a lot of practice to truly master as it always feels slightly on the edge but never too difficult. It always "makes sense". I've even got some tank slappers this time around. Whatever rubber the Nitto tire for this one has seems to be working very well. It's also one of the few tires in pCars that has proper "bite" when you decelerate and turn at the same time which will probably make it quite punishing for people with gamepads.

bmanic
31-01-2016, 04:32
EDIT: Oh, and about the FFB: I think the issue with "reverse" FFB is because the no-caster + massive angle + super quick steering rack inverts the steering forces very quickly and suddenly compared to most cars (the centering force inverting DOES happen in real life when you steer way too much), or possibly just because the rack wants to self-counter really hard (and our FFB wheels aren't capable of not overshooting the mark). I had great success calming that behavior down by reducing the FFB Master Scale to 18 (even below) which makes the sudden and sharp transitions in the FFB nicer to deal with (guessing the sharp transitions are partly because of the lack of caster) and increasing the steering ratio to around 8.4:1 (which is still ridiculously fast).

We have this issue with some other cars as well and it is tied to zero or almost zero Caster. You can counter this in the FFB to a degree by increasing Fy a bit. For instance in the Formula A car you can get into very strange FFB situations if you run almost no Caster. It's also one of the few cars where I do not decrease Fy at all and keep it at 100.. and I actually lower Fz which I normally increase a bit.

People like me who run mainly Mz forces can get into serious "weird FFB" territory in these cars and the solution is to keep Mz domination much lower or even less than Fy. Fz is another thing that you can lower quite a lot to get FFB that makes more sense.

aurel
31-01-2016, 05:12
BMW 1-series StanceWorks and Scion FRS Rocketbunny can also use them.

Nitto NT05 on the Rocketbunny on the Nordschleife. I think "it" (see for yourself) started when I hit the bump at the Galgenkopf (the right hand corner after the small carousel, before starting the accelerating for the long straight, Döttinger Höhe). I got to Döttinger Höhe before I figured you might want to see this.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfrCraAP1MM

My dash app told me I had zero suspension damage at this point and the tires were fine. I forgot to switch to telemetry for the video, but I run 5760x1080, so the interesting stuff wouldn't have been included in the video anyway.

BigDad
31-01-2016, 08:14
Okay !!
Don't think thats going to help lap times .

tennenbaum
31-01-2016, 09:12
Is it possible that its a real suspension effect of a wheel going past 45 degrees and being pushed towards its full extent when it goes past that? I have no experience of drift cars but from a physics point of view I could understand how that could happen.


your assumption seems valid to me. casey's post also states a suspension goemetry that looks to me as if it makes the inverted force even more logical. pity i can't test it at the moment... i'd isolate Fm (so no Fz even adding "pull") and check what really happens...

Plage
31-01-2016, 09:43
Just tried the 2002 Stanceworks: LOVE IT. Fantastic car, at least with rear damper corrections.

I used the following changes:


Rear:
Springs 50

Slow bump 3200
Slow rebound 6600
Fast bump 2400
Fast rebound 3600

This should help calm down the tail to where it can still come out but not all the time, and be enjoyable when it does. For extra stability you can increase either preload or dec lock, both of which are fairly low by default, making the car very nimble off the throttle.

The tyres also seem to be pretty spot on for 70s touring car slicks.

I've so far tried the Radbul and the 2002, and have enjoyed both immensely. The Radbul will take quite a while to tame, but it shows promise of greatness, and tunes down well by reducing the boost and making steering setup more normal (caster and steering ratio to more "usual" ranges), will make a fun track car as well as a hooner. =)

EDIT: Oh, and I noticed that the 2002 Stanceworks has the steering wheel off to the left. I was about to "complain" about it, but moving the camera around in the cockpit it seems like it's a design decision, the camera is definitely where the driver's head is, an the driver is sitting on the seat properly. The whole seat if offset to the left compared to the wheel, so it's similar to the Lotus 49, the wheel isn't supposed to be right in front of the driver.

It indeed seems to help a bit (emphasis on a bit) but it seems this leads to at least some oversteer and the car doesn't turns in as good as before. That's at least what I found when I compared it to my setup on the NOS.

These are at least 225er slicks in the back if not bigger and they should stick much more. I'm coming from GTL where such tyres are basically standard at least for some of the addon cars. The Skyline GT-R over there has it right for example and shows how historic tyres can harmonize with historic cars. Here this isn't the case at all and it's basically impossible to floor the car around and especially out of corners without risking your tail going bonkers for obviously no (real) reason.

Something like shown in the following GIF simply doesn't seems to be possible with the car we have ingame unfortunately and that's just plain wrong.

https://fat.gfycat.com/CookedEarnestFallowdeer.gif

skipptg
31-01-2016, 09:49
Casey, what's happening here with the Radbul?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4UCKr1ip9qE

I've got gearing set to maximum speed, and 6th as far right as it'll go. Deploying maximum throttle in 6th just revs the engine but seems to slow down the car. It doesn't look or feel like it's spinning up the rears. Overwhelming the clutch perhaps?

This is my new favourite car out of all of them. It's so wonderfully insanely all over the place yet very controllable I can't stop grinning. And the noises! Well played Sirs, well played.

Josh Whitcombe
31-01-2016, 10:18
Nitto NT05 on the Rocketbunny on the Nordschleife. I think "it" (see for yourself) started when I hit the bump at the Galgenkopf (the right hand corner after the small carousel, before starting the accelerating for the long straight, Döttinger Höhe). I got to Döttinger Höhe before I figured you might want to see this.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfrCraAP1MM

My dash app told me I had zero suspension damage at this point and the tires were fine. I forgot to switch to telemetry for the video, but I run 5760x1080, so the interesting stuff wouldn't have been included in the video anyway.

Haha, flew past you in the RXC Turbo while you were sitting on the side of the track, was wondering why you were just sitting there, now I know.

danowat
31-01-2016, 11:50
Still trying to get the 2002SW under control, Jussis rear suspension tweak makes things better but it's still too wild on corner entry, to alleviate this I've taken to stiffening to front to try an induce a bit of understeer on corner entry which has made it much better.

I think the tyres are pretty good, but there is a big drop-off in grip at the edges or grip, maybe a bit too much as in real life media you can see cars like this hanging on past the edges of grip.

Azure Flare
31-01-2016, 12:21
Tried running a more open diff? It helps greatly.

Jussi Viljami Karjalainen
31-01-2016, 12:23
Yeah, 90% acc lock isn't the best for corner exit stability, and the dec lock is fairly open so corner entry isn't that stable necessarily either. Once I get back to testing I'll probably try something like 40% on both.

Engine Of Darkness
31-01-2016, 12:34
Casey, what's happening here with the Radbul?

I've got gearing set to maximum speed, and 6th as far right as it'll go. Deploying maximum throttle in 6th just revs the engine but seems to slow down the car. It doesn't look or feel like it's spinning up the rears. Overwhelming the clutch perhaps?

This is my new favourite car out of all of them. It's so wonderfully insanely all over the place yet very controllable I can't stop grinning. And the noises! Well played Sirs, well played.

Thats the clutch slipping at max boost. The Yellowbird had this too when you accelerated in highest gear at max boost (should've been fixed for the Yellowbird if i recall correctly). SMS has to up the force the clutch can transmit - unless the real one has a slipping clutch at max boost aswell ;)

Sankyo
31-01-2016, 12:48
It indeed seems to help a bit (emphasis on a bit) but it seems this leads to at least some oversteer and the car doesn't turns in as good as before. That's at least what I found when I compared it to my setup on the NOS.

These are at least 225er slicks in the back if not bigger and they should stick much more. I'm coming from GTL where such tyres are basically standard at least for some of the addon cars. The Skyline GT-R over there has it right for example and shows how historic tyres can harmonize with historic cars. Here this isn't the case at all and it's basically impossible to floor the car around and especially out of corners without risking your tail going bonkers for obviously no (real) reason.

Something like shown in the following GIF simply doesn't seems to be possible with the car we have ingame unfortunately and that's just plain wrong.

https://fat.gfycat.com/CookedEarnestFallowdeer.gif

Comparing to a random video doesn't make a lot of sense if you do not accurately compare conditions, circumstances and car set-up. Are you sure you're not over-driving the car? How fast does the car in the video drive? How sharp is the corner in the video? Did you choose a similar corner in the game? How good is your throttle control? Are your tires up to temperature in the game? Can you post a video?

Jussi Viljami Karjalainen
31-01-2016, 13:12
Thats the clutch slipping at max boost. The Yellowbird had this too when you accelerated in highest gear at max boost (should've been fixed for the Yellowbird if i recall correctly). SMS has to up the force the clutch can transmit - unless the real one has a slipping clutch at max boost aswell ;)By the sound of it the clutch is slipping on maximum boost with maximum resistance (the longer the gearing the more resistance the engine sees and the harder the load is on the clutch). The clutch works fine in the conditions it was designed for though, which high speed runs with maximum length gearing aren't. =)

Josh Whitcombe
31-01-2016, 13:23
Thats the clutch slipping at max boost. The Yellowbird had this too when you accelerated in highest gear at max boost (should've been fixed for the Yellowbird if i recall correctly). SMS has to up the force the clutch can transmit - unless the real one has a slipping clutch at max boost aswell ;)

It probably does haha, considering at Atlanta the clutch literally welded itself to the flywheel.

RomKnight
31-01-2016, 14:09
WRT to the V8SC shouldn't we use the clutch to downshift? I don't recall anyone on the series downshifting without the clutch. It doesn't feel natural.

Anyone got read of the understeer or at least make it less so?. I did try to adjust the driving but it is not easy.

Silraed
31-01-2016, 14:43
WRT to the V8SC shouldn't we use the clutch to downshift? I don't recall anyone on the series downshifting without the clutch. It doesn't feel natural.

I brought this up earlier but got no response. I was under the impression it was a deliberate choice in the CotF designs to require the clutch and manual blip on downshifts.

RomKnight
31-01-2016, 14:49
I've been following the Daytona 24h... can't quite read everything ATM :D

And yes, i'm under that impression too.

IJOJOI
31-01-2016, 17:56
There is actually no car in pCars I ran over, where i needed the clutch to downshift OR blip the throttle in order to not lock the rears while heavy braking.
I don't know why they made it that "easy" but there are worse tings on earth that than ;)

bmanic
31-01-2016, 18:12
It indeed seems to help a bit (emphasis on a bit) but it seems this leads to at least some oversteer and the car doesn't turns in as good as before. That's at least what I found when I compared it to my setup on the NOS.

These are at least 225er slicks in the back if not bigger and they should stick much more. I'm coming from GTL where such tyres are basically standard at least for some of the addon cars. The Skyline GT-R over there has it right for example and shows how historic tyres can harmonize with historic cars. Here this isn't the case at all and it's basically impossible to floor the car around and especially out of corners without risking your tail going bonkers for obviously no (real) reason.

Something like shown in the following GIF simply doesn't seems to be possible with the car we have ingame unfortunately and that's just plain wrong.

https://fat.gfycat.com/CookedEarnestFallowdeer.gif

Not true at all. It is ALL down to the setup. Did you even take a look at the default setup? It has 90% acceleration lock on the differential. 90!! Turn that down to 50% and set Jussi's damper settings and my camber settings. Now you can drive exactly like you see in the gif. In fact, my replays look extremely similar in that kind of corner (and it's hard to see the camber of the corner in the image.. which affects a lot the way you can take it).

This kind of "it doesn't work.." immediate knee jerk reaction is really frustrating to read as it contains exactly zero amount of truth to it. Please explore the car setup a bit before coming here to complain. I do agree that the default setup is far from optimal but that's hardly a major issue when it's possible to fix it with relative ease.

Fendar
31-01-2016, 18:44
I found the default setup (of the 2002 Stanceworks) is drivable, but very difficult.
If you brake early and load the rear with the throttle slightly you can get it through the corner safely.

But the damper settings from Jussi help alot (I was myself already exploring into that direction) - the differtial settings would've been my next step, too.

tennenbaum
31-01-2016, 21:50
Not true at all. It is ALL down to the setup. Did you even take a look at the default setup? It has 90% acceleration lock on the differential. 90!! Turn that down to 50% and set Jussi's damper settings and my camber settings. Now you can drive exactly like you see in the gif. In fact, my replays look extremely similar in that kind of corner (and it's hard to see the camber of the corner in the image.. which affects a lot the way you can take it).

This kind of "it doesn't work.." immediate knee jerk reaction is really frustrating to read as it contains exactly zero amount of truth to it. Please explore the car setup a bit before coming here to complain. I do agree that the default setup is far from optimal but that's hardly a major issue when it's possible to fix it with relative ease.

I wished i could load your ghost to PSN. Your 2:43.xxx sets definitely a mark ;)

poirqc
31-01-2016, 22:03
I can't understand how Krus Control did 2:34! I'm still in the 2:50...

If i can make it drivable, with about no knowledge about car tuning, with default suspension, It's doable. What i did:

Lower rear pressure, a bit more camber, 40 / 40 diffs, 40 preload(should've kept 20), lower rear sway bar, 4.9 caster, 85% break power, what else...

Jussi Viljami Karjalainen
31-01-2016, 22:27
I can't understand how Krus Control did 2:34! I'm still in the 2:50...

If i can make it drivable, with about no knowledge about car tuning, with default suspension, It's doable. What i did:

Lower rear pressure, a bit more camber, 40 / 40 diffs, 40 preload(should've kept 20), lower rear sway bar, 4.9 caster, 85% break power, what else...Softer rear slow damping.

bmanic
31-01-2016, 23:38
A 2:39:xxx should be possible for me but that means nailing every single corner perfectly. I really do not see how a 2:34 is possible. Gotta get those ghosts and see how it's done.

bmanic
31-01-2016, 23:39
I wished i could load your ghost to PSN. Your 2:43.xxx sets definitely a mark ;)

My 2:43 was far from a perfect lap. There are now people down to 2:34.. which is absolutely insane and I can not see how they could do these times legit.

poirqc
01-02-2016, 01:28
Softer rear slow damping.

I need to read a book about suspension. I mostly understand most of the garage settings, but i was never able to do anything suspension related in LFS. It's the same here. I can't even use your calculator! The only thing i know is that's there's maths there. I almost failed college because of that. :) So for now, i always use default. :)

Am i right in saying that the suspension need to be the quickest possible without being bouncy. It means that the wheel stay connected to the road as much as possible?

:D

Jussi Viljami Karjalainen
01-02-2016, 01:31
I need to read a book about suspension. I mostly understand most of the garage settings, but i was never able to do anything suspension related in LFS. It's the same here. I can't even use your calculator! The only thing i know is that's there's maths there. I almost failed college because of that. :) So for now, i always use default. :)

Am i right in saying that the suspension need to be the quickest possible without being bouncy. It means that the wheel stay connected to the road as much as possible?

:DIn the calculator you can always try just plugging in random values until you get the red lines between the blue lines, if nothing else. =)

poirqc
01-02-2016, 02:10
In the calculator you can always try just plugging in random values until you get the red lines between the blue lines, if nothing else. =)

Sadly, i only have access to excel on my work computer. Free readers don't bode well with your sheet. The webside works well, but i can't get my head around the description. I'll try again for sure!

Plage
01-02-2016, 02:26
Comparing to a random video doesn't make a lot of sense if you do not accurately compare conditions, circumstances and car set-up. Are you sure you're not over-driving the car? How fast does the car in the video drive? How sharp is the corner in the video? Did you choose a similar corner in the game? How good is your throttle control? Are your tires up to temperature in the game? Can you post a video?

It's indeed not really representative but it's quite difficult to find proper material showing an 02 driven under historical conditions (the snippet is from 1971's Spa Francorchamps 24h by the way). I'm trying to not overdrive the car but that's a little difficult because it has these crap tyres on it you know. Don't know but it looks quite fast and if I'd try something comparable in PC the tail of the 02 would come out at least half around the corner I'd bet. I'd actually say it would already get loose if you enter a corner with that speed. You tell me which corner that is in Spa and we can try it out if it's till existing. I've G25 pedals and I'm not handicapped so I'd say "good". Of course they are. Of what? The tail going bonkers? Sure I can. Give me some time.


Not true at all. It is ALL down to the setup. Did you even take a look at the default setup? It has 90% acceleration lock on the differential. 90!! Turn that down to 50% and set Jussi's damper settings and my camber settings. Now you can drive exactly like you see in the gif. In fact, my replays look extremely similar in that kind of corner (and it's hard to see the camber of the corner in the image.. which affects a lot the way you can take it).

This kind of "it doesn't work.." immediate knee jerk reaction is really frustrating to read as it contains exactly zero amount of truth to it. Please explore the car setup a bit before coming here to complain. I do agree that the default setup is far from optimal but that's hardly a major issue when it's possible to fix it with relative ease.

Maybe, just maybe, it's all really just down to the setup but let me ask you what sense does it make to give it such a default setup? It can't be a requirement that I've to use third party tools to get a setup that actually makes a car somewhat driveable.

My opinion still stands. The tyres are the real problem and don't do the car any justice nor do they represent "historical" tyres IMO.

Krus Control
01-02-2016, 03:22
I can't understand how Krus Control did 2:34! I'm still in the 2:50...

If i can make it drivable, with about no knowledge about car tuning, with default suspension, It's doable. What i did:

Lower rear pressure, a bit more camber, 40 / 40 diffs, 40 preload(should've kept 20), lower rear sway bar, 4.9 caster, 85% break power, what else...

What car/track is this? I'll gladly post the setup I used.

Krus Control
01-02-2016, 03:59
You guys must mean the 2002 Stanceworks at Bannochbrae. The time is 2:37, not 2:34 (which may or may not be possible).
226548
Diff at 17% acc and 35% dec
60 preload

beetes_juice
01-02-2016, 04:19
I'm right there with bmanic with a 2.43.6. Far from perfect like he said.

But wow 2.37 is pushing Krus. Great lap. Going to have to try out your numbers above.

Krus Control
01-02-2016, 04:42
It's actually not a very good lap at all. I lost at least .5 in the second to last turn alone. I'm waiting until somebody beats it to set a serious one because I'm lazy.

bmanic
01-02-2016, 06:23
Maybe, just maybe, it's all really just down to the setup but let me ask you what sense does it make to give it such a default setup? It can't be a requirement that I've to use third party tools to get a setup that actually makes a car somewhat driveable.

My opinion still stands. The tyres are the real problem and don't do the car any justice nor do they represent "historical" tyres IMO.

What the heck are you talking about? There's NO requirement to use any 3rd party tools for anything. I got the car perfectly drivable within the game a few minutes after I drove it on the default.

Stop blaming the game here. This is a racing simulator. Changing the setup to suite your driving style of a fully fledged racing car, is pretty much what it's about. It's not like the original setup is undrivable.. it's a bit more challenging. Who knows, it may even be the faster setup for skilled people. Not sure how Casey arrived at the defaults but I'm sure they are not there by random chance.

bmanic
01-02-2016, 06:24
It's actually not a very good lap at all. I lost at least .5 in the second to last turn alone. I'm waiting until somebody beats it to set a serious one because I'm lazy.

That 2nd to last turn is nasty! I've hit that fence more times than I care to admit. :)

Still, 2:37 is a mighty good time! Well done.

Plage
01-02-2016, 07:55
What the heck are you talking about? There's NO requirement to use any 3rd party tools for anything. I got the car perfectly drivable within the game a few minutes after I drove it on the default.

Stop blaming the game here. This is a racing simulator. Changing the setup to suite your driving style of a fully fledged racing car, is pretty much what it's about. It's not like the original setup is undrivable.. it's a bit more challenging. Who knows, it may even be the faster setup for skilled people. Not sure how Casey arrived at the defaults but I'm sure they are not there by random chance.

And how did Jussi came up with his settings? Right with a third party tool. Your definition of perfectly drivable seems to differentiate much from mine.

Maybe I would if SMS didn't had a certain history of messing up tyre related things.

G Gladstone
01-02-2016, 11:07
i think it would be nice if Casey could explained which default setups he throws in. is it just random or are there any thoughts
behind default setups ? Making a game to people outside the sim community, like xbox/ps4 gamers , you must have given it some thought.

Is the car drivable or does it need some heavy setup changes from default to be drivable?

I dont know anything about dampers, fast rebound so please, inlighting me. Is Projectcars a game for setup nerds or casual gamers?

Jussi Viljami Karjalainen
01-02-2016, 12:37
And how did Jussi came up with his settings? Right with a third party tool. Your definition of perfectly drivable seems to differentiate much from mine.

Maybe I would if SMS didn't had a certain history of messing up tyre related things.Well technically it's a first party tool for me, since I made it... =)

But the tool isn't strictly necessary, and me using it for every car I ever come across before even trying it out is just my own peculiarity. People have been making setups for decades without these tools. I use it because I prefer to check the math rather than do a traditional sim racing black box experiment when fiddling with setups, but it's not required by any means. And it's not like the 2002 Stanceworks is the first car in the game with a "weird" default setup, and many real life cars do actually have weird setups, especially older ones.

RoccoTTS
01-02-2016, 12:52
And how did Jussi came up with his settings? Right with a third party tool. Your definition of perfectly drivable seems to differentiate much from mine.

Maybe I would if SMS didn't had a certain history of messing up tyre related things.

You can also use THIS (http://homepage.ntlworld.com/terry.cresswell/handling.html). It's a basic troubleshooting for suspension tuning.

Plage
01-02-2016, 17:58
Ok, here's a video of a lap around the Nords. Standard SP race without opponents and a flying start (tyres at temp). Used Jussi's rear suspension settings, dropped the diff to 50%, gave it slightly more camber and changed brake pressure to 70% and balance to 55%. Guess you'd have liked to see something with telemetry but it's only taken from a replay and of mediocre quality because I unfortunately have problems with recording live as it induces micro lags which makes it at least very unpleasant to drive but often enough leads to a crash.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1U8I-NE6Ais

As you can see it's still very tail happy. Actually way too much for my taste and I simply wouldn't expect to loose grip that often in such way(s). For me it's really the tyres that somehow won't generate the grip I'd expect them to. Something I just noticed is how often the tyres will actually scream especially around corners. You can't hear that in the video very well but will surely notice when you drive the car yourself. It's quite strange and I don't know if this should be the case with slicks even if they're classed as "historic".

Keith_d
02-02-2016, 08:44
You know I had no intention of getting this DLC at all, the cars didn't interest apart from the V8 and the track sounded pretty boring, I have to hold my hand up and say I was completely wrong, those beemers are a complete blast to drive and the track is superb

The setup for the lap isn't much different from default, changed the diff, dampers front and rear, moved the brakes back a bit and dropped pressures a touch, it's a bit sloppy in places and you feel like your hanging on for grim death half the time but I think that's part of the fun of this car :)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hdSHh3aO9js

Plage
02-02-2016, 11:43
Nitto NT05 on the Rocketbunny on the Nordschleife. I think "it" (see for yourself) started when I hit the bump at the Galgenkopf (the right hand corner after the small carousel, before starting the accelerating for the long straight, Döttinger Höhe). I got to Döttinger Höhe before I figured you might want to see this.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfrCraAP1MM

My dash app told me I had zero suspension damage at this point and the tires were fine. I forgot to switch to telemetry for the video, but I run 5760x1080, so the interesting stuff wouldn't have been included in the video anyway.

This happend to me yesterday in an online session right after leaving the caroussel.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30V2PCl_abY

aurel
02-02-2016, 12:05
This happend to me yesterday in an online session right after leaving the caroussel.

Thank you for the confirmation, added to my post in the "Known Issues Collective Thread (PC)"

PS: heh, nice, you were playing on my server there. Thank you!

Plage
02-02-2016, 12:46
Thanks for running it/them.

Casey Ringley
02-02-2016, 20:51
This happend to me yesterday in an online session right after leaving the caroussel.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30V2PCl_abY

That is just the strangest thing! Suspension geometry hasn't broken; tires aren't blown or anything visibly weird; and yet it's like one of them is pushing through a huge impulse as if a segment of it had blown up 5000% to create a bump on the tread surface. Haven't been able to repro here yet, but will keep an eye out.

While I'm here, gotta say I'm so pleased to see you all liking the pack! Was a little worried with something as polarizing as the RADBUL that people would just find it too crazy, too difficult, and not have much fun with it. Very cool to see some getting the hang of it and enjoying how it all works.

poirqc
02-02-2016, 22:07
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeEYKCuu6ow&feature=youtu.be

I did an online race last friday, i had 2 bugs in one! The landmine and the bounce. Sorry if the video is crap, i still have the replay if you want me to take other pictures. Maybe i could dig the dbg session also. Oulton Park, Foster, 10 Lap race.

This was the only time i had a bug with the new DLC, beside that, i was just alot of fun!

My father, who never played any racing game was able to run Bannochbrae all by himself after 10 mins! Tells how natural this game can be! :D

cmch15
02-02-2016, 23:45
Bit late to this thread so digging up a couple of older posts


Is anyone having difficulties stopping the v8 supercar? I've noticed that going into the chase at Bathurst the AI brake well after the right hand kink, whereas I have to brake well before, otherwise I end up well and truly in the gravel trap.
I've also noticed that the front brakes are usually almost three times hotter than the rears. So if the fronts are 400 degrees the rears will be 160- 170. This is with the brake duct open 50%. Is this normal?


Haven't raced AI with it but you should be braking after the kink, yes. I am at about 290kph and been running brake duct at 20% but haven't noted brake temps as been playing with FFB in this and various cars so looking at other things. Are you getting full braking (on the telemetry screen)?



WRT to the V8SC shouldn't we use the clutch to downshift? I don't recall anyone on the series downshifting without the clutch. It doesn't feel natural.

Anyone got read of the understeer or at least make it less so?. I did try to adjust the driving but it is not easy.




I brought this up earlier but got no response. I was under the impression it was a deliberate choice in the CotF designs to require the clutch and manual blip on downshifts.


Would appear so, yes. Hadn't thought about it as having to use paddles at the moment (no sequential shifter) so was automatically left foot braking. Just watched a few videos of Greg Murphy onboards who is normally a left foot braker but he is using the clutch on all of them.

resmania
02-02-2016, 23:46
I don't know if this is a bug but when I use this setup (http://projectcarssetups.eu/#/viewsetup/96668842) one of the front wheel glitches after few drifts.
I'll post some screenshots when I go back home this weekend :)

DECATUR PLAYA
03-02-2016, 02:22
This happend to me yesterday in an online session right after leaving the caroussel.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30V2PCl_abY

Is that a BMW or a 63 Impala.

Plage
03-02-2016, 02:22
That is just the strangest thing! Suspension geometry hasn't broken; tires aren't blown or anything visibly weird; and yet it's like one of them is pushing through a huge impulse as if a segment of it had blown up 5000% to create a bump on the tread surface. Haven't been able to repro here yet, but will keep an eye out.

While I'm here, gotta say I'm so pleased to see you all liking the pack! Was a little worried with something as polarizing as the RADBUL that people would just find it too crazy, too difficult, and not have much fun with it. Very cool to see some getting the hang of it and enjoying how it all works.

The FFB effects you'll get when it happens are just insane. I don't know if it helps but I think this is maybe related to something happening in the caroussel precisely at the exit. This bouncing never happened before to me but I already had two blown tyres right after coming out of there (see this (http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?44380-Blown-flat-tyres-or-suspension-failure-Feature-or-Bug) thread). As you can take from my last post in the linked thread it indeed seemed to me like something "under" the car did brake and mabye the flat tyre was just the most noticeable result? When you pay close attention to the 1M video you'll see that it's the front left that's inducing the bouncing and in both cases of the the blown tyres it was the left front, too. Maybe the older cars just compensate this differently and will give you a blown tyre while newer ones will do the bouncy thing or can it really be the new (type of) tyre(s) that cause this behaviour? An other thing to notice is that for me it only happend online and on this track so far.

Even if I don't come clean with the RatBul, don't find much in V8SCs and complain about the tyres of the 02 I still like the pack. Many packs have content I personally don't like so much but there always was at least one car or track I liked and could "take away" from any single of them so far. The overall work you guys are doing is really great!

To give you some more feedback to the Rat or better what my problem is. I'm driving with a relatively small turn radius and ratio and I'm therefore experiencing this steering angle snap quite massively when I try to control or even induce a drift. Driving, sorry...trying to drive it like a normal race car works somehow. Maybe I really have to up the radius and ratio to better control the car but I think I'd need to get me one of these before. ;)

http://i.imgur.com/AQfh28p.jpg

And if we're honest you already knew that you'd get away with such a car after the Rocket Bunny thing...you rascals! :D

danowat
03-02-2016, 08:12
There is something iffy with the 2002SW going on, I can't figure out what it is, but there are certain situations where the rear tyres just let go, it seems to coincide with some funny bouncing on the front wheels and the front wheels leaving the ground.

The 2nd to last corner on Watkins Glen highlights it well.

bmanic
03-02-2016, 09:11
That is just the strangest thing! Suspension geometry hasn't broken; tires aren't blown or anything visibly weird; and yet it's like one of them is pushing through a huge impulse as if a segment of it had blown up 5000% to create a bump on the tread surface. Haven't been able to repro here yet, but will keep an eye out.

It seems to happen quite randomly. I've been trying to drift around the Oschersleben C track (the short bit) and I'd say once every 10 restarts one of my tires/suspension/whatever breaks without any reason. Maybe worth experimenting there?



While I'm here, gotta say I'm so pleased to see you all liking the pack! Was a little worried with something as polarizing as the RADBUL that people would just find it too crazy, too difficult, and not have much fun with it. Very cool to see some getting the hang of it and enjoying how it all works.

Well, the Radbull is the only car that "doesn't make sense" in my opinion. The other cars are awesome but something is really 'off' with the Radbull. For starters, the FFB is way way way too high on the radbull even though it uses the same tire as on the BMW 1M stanceworks. It immediately clips heavily forcing me to lower the master scale to around 10. The Nitto 05 tire is not at all drift friendly.. this becomes immediately clear when you remove all boost and put restrictor on minimum.. and just try to drive sideways the ordinary way, either using handbrake or just swerving into the corner to force a slide. There are far better "drift" tires in pCars (masculin, faretti and nitto 555 hard come to mind). The Nitto 05 tire suffers from the typical pCars problem of massive re-grip at certain angles where it just causes immediate tank slappers or bogs down in a weird way, even at 500+ HP and acc differential at 0%. So yeah.. there's still a lot of work to do on this tire to make it believable.

Luckily we have tons of videos of the Radbull on youtube and a few of them from the drivers point of view. It's immediately obvious that you can not do the same things as Matt is doing in the videos. Just driving straight while burning the tires at high revs doesn't work at all as in real life. Just look at the goodwood 2015 video. He barely touches the steering wheel and the car goes perfectly straight while burning crazy rubber. I spent close to two hours yesterday trying to duplicate that with setup changes.. not a chance. Then I took the McLaren P1 on track with the street tire and had way less problems duplicating the "driving straight while burning crazy rubber" thing.

And just for comparison I did the same in Assetto Corsa both with the P1 and La Ferrari and again had no problems at all.. and I could drift them too quite a bit easier than anything we have in the game.

There's just something off with the way the tires re-grip or the amount of grip they have once they are going "crazy" levels over the limit (aka burning rubber). That's the most obvious weak spot I think in our tire model. Luckily this part is rarely in play when it comes to actual racing.

bmanic
03-02-2016, 09:12
There is something iffy with the 2002SW going on, I can't figure out what it is, but there are certain situations where the rear tyres just let go, it seems to coincide with some funny bouncing on the front wheels and the front wheels leaving the ground.

The 2nd to last corner on Watkins Glen highlights it well.

Have you changed the rear dampers? The default setup is not good at all and easily causes the car to get into serious trouble over bumps. Once you soften the rear dampers a lot you'll have a much easier time driving the car. I also suggest softening the front a bit to take out some of that "bite" that the front tires have.

danowat
03-02-2016, 09:17
Have you changed the rear dampers? The default setup is not good at all and easily causes the car to get into serious trouble over bumps. Once you soften the rear dampers a lot you'll have a much easier time driving the car. I also suggest softening the front a bit to take out some of that "bite" that the front tires have.

I have, it was in tweaking the setup that I found the rear tyres would all of a sudden let go, when there was no reason why they should, combined with the front tyres jumping of the surface.

Plage
03-02-2016, 19:13
It think I finally found a proper setup for the Stanceworks 2002. It gets rid of the twitchy tail to a good amount and makes the car much, much more enjoyable to drive. I've used Jussi's rear damper settings and the 50% differential recommendation.

Brakes:
70% Pressure
55% Balance front

Camber:
Front -3.2°
Back -2.0°

Suspension:
Springs rear 50 N/mm

Slow bump 3200 N/mm
Slow rebound 6600 N/mm
Fast bump 2400 N/mm
Fast rebound 3600 N/mm

Stabilisator:
Front 35 N/mm
Rear 30 N/mm

Differential:
Acc. 50% (can be reduced to 45% if it's still too much out corners)
Dec. 25% (can be upped to 30% if still too twitchy at corner entries)

Beside the change of the rear suspension and the diff it seems to be that lowering the front camber to anything below -3.0° greatly helps in getting the action or better control from the tail to the front. Making the stabs stiffer just contributes in less wait changes and stress and doesn't seems to change much in that direction itself.

I'd still say the tyres could need a little more grip. :p

Psychomatrix
03-02-2016, 19:45
On the setup database is very good setup for SW 2002

bmanic
04-02-2016, 04:37
It think I finally found a proper setup for the Stanceworks 2002. It gets rid of the twitchy tail to a good amount and makes the car much, much more enjoyable to drive. I've used Jussi's rear damper settings and the 50% differential recommendation.

Brakes:
70% Pressure
55% Balance front

Camber:
Front -3.2°
Back -2.0°

Suspension:
Springs rear 50 N/mm

Slow bump 3200 N/mm
Slow rebound 6600 N/mm
Fast bump 2400 N/mm
Fast rebound 3600 N/mm

Stabilisator:
Front 35 N/mm
Rear 30 N/mm

Differential:
Acc. 50% (can be reduced to 45% if it's still too much out corners)
Dec. 25% (can be upped to 30% if still too twitchy at corner entries)

Beside the change of the rear suspension and the diff it seems to be that lowering the front camber to anything below -3.0° greatly helps in getting the action or better control from the tail to the front. Making the stabs stiffer just contributes in less wait changes and stress and doesn't seems to change much in that direction itself.

I'd still say the tyres could need a little more grip. :p

I actually have the cambers reversed. I have much higher camber at the rear. I think it's at -2.6 rear and -2.0 front. So yeah, like I said in my first post about the car, change the front camber to be less than the rear and you suddenly have a much more stable car.

tennenbaum
04-02-2016, 13:55
It seems to happen quite randomly. I've been trying to drift around the Oschersleben C track (the short bit) and I'd say once every 10 restarts one of my tires/suspension/whatever breaks without any reason. Maybe worth experimenting there?



Well, the Radbull is the only car that "doesn't make sense" in my opinion. The other cars are awesome but something is really 'off' with the Radbull. For starters, the FFB is way way way too high on the radbull even though it uses the same tire as on the BMW 1M stanceworks. It immediately clips heavily forcing me to lower the master scale to around 10. The Nitto 05 tire is not at all drift friendly.. this becomes immediately clear when you remove all boost and put restrictor on minimum.. and just try to drive sideways the ordinary way, either using handbrake or just swerving into the corner to force a slide. There are far better "drift" tires in pCars (masculin, faretti and nitto 555 hard come to mind). The Nitto 05 tire suffers from the typical pCars problem of massive re-grip at certain angles where it just causes immediate tank slappers or bogs down in a weird way, even at 500+ HP and acc differential at 0%. So yeah.. there's still a lot of work to do on this tire to make it believable.

Luckily we have tons of videos of the Radbull on youtube and a few of them from the drivers point of view. It's immediately obvious that you can not do the same things as Matt is doing in the videos. Just driving straight while burning the tires at high revs doesn't work at all as in real life. Just look at the goodwood 2015 video. He barely touches the steering wheel and the car goes perfectly straight while burning crazy rubber. I spent close to two hours yesterday trying to duplicate that with setup changes.. not a chance. Then I took the McLaren P1 on track with the street tire and had way less problems duplicating the "driving straight while burning crazy rubber" thing.

And just for comparison I did the same in Assetto Corsa both with the P1 and La Ferrari and again had no problems at all.. and I could drift them too quite a bit easier than anything we have in the game.

There's just something off with the way the tires re-grip or the amount of grip they have once they are going "crazy" levels over the limit (aka burning rubber). That's the most obvious weak spot I think in our tire model. Luckily this part is rarely in play when it comes to actual racing.

Thanks for noting that! The "burning rubber" (aka pendelum problem) issue must sit deep in the physics engine. It'd be the first thing i'd patch (if i could ;-). Not that i'm a fan of drifting, but IMHO it makes the entire driving more fun an immersive when i can do in the game what i can do in reality with by far less skills ;-)

Plage
05-02-2016, 16:41
I actually have the cambers reversed. I have much higher camber at the rear. I think it's at -2.6 rear and -2.0 front. So yeah, like I said in my first post about the car, change the front camber to be less than the rear and you suddenly have a much more stable car.

I've kept my front settings but changed the rear to -3.0° now and this improved at least the stability in fast driven corners (like in the GIF I'd posted). I'm really starting to like the car more and more.

An other thing I've noticed now is that this nice crackling sound after a down shift seems to come from the rear of the car like the exhaust ends there and not below the right door. Can somebody confirm this?

lollygag
05-02-2016, 17:49
Well, the Radbull is the only car that "doesn't make sense" in my opinion. The other cars are awesome but something is really 'off' with the Radbull. For starters, the FFB is way way way too high on the radbull even though it uses the same tire as on the BMW 1M stanceworks. It immediately clips heavily forcing me to lower the master scale to around 10. The Nitto 05 tire is not at all drift friendly.. this becomes immediately clear when you remove all boost and put restrictor on minimum.. and just try to drive sideways the ordinary way, either using handbrake or just swerving into the corner to force a slide. There are far better "drift" tires in pCars (masculin, faretti and nitto 555 hard come to mind). The Nitto 05 tire suffers from the typical pCars problem of massive re-grip at certain angles where it just causes immediate tank slappers or bogs down in a weird way, even at 500+ HP and acc differential at 0%. So yeah.. there's still a lot of work to do on this tire to make it believable.

Luckily we have tons of videos of the Radbull on youtube and a few of them from the drivers point of view. It's immediately obvious that you can not do the same things as Matt is doing in the videos. Just driving straight while burning the tires at high revs doesn't work at all as in real life. Just look at the goodwood 2015 video. He barely touches the steering wheel and the car goes perfectly straight while burning crazy rubber. I spent close to two hours yesterday trying to duplicate that with setup changes.. not a chance. Then I took the McLaren P1 on track with the street tire and had way less problems duplicating the "driving straight while burning crazy rubber" thing.



Thanks for noting that! The "burning rubber" (aka pendelum problem) issue must sit deep in the physics engine. It'd be the first thing i'd patch (if i could ;-). Not that i'm a fan of drifting, but IMHO it makes the entire driving more fun an immersive when i can do in the game what i can do in reality with by far less skills ;-)


I think with a little tuning and ffb adjustment and most importantly spending enough time in the car.. like a couple weeks at least, lol. I'm sure Mike didnt sit down in a couple hours and do what he does in the videos. its def a hard but our car will do exactly what he does in the videos.

Jussi Viljami Karjalainen
05-02-2016, 18:07
The Radbul is growing on me. Currently I think my main issue is that I'm not used to sliding at such large angles, so my vision isn't used to the movement yet, and I'm a bit late on my returns a lot of the time.

Tuning the car down to something more like I'm used to (600 bhp or so, setup a bit more like a normal road car with the steering ratio etc.) and drifting it at the angles I'm used to it works fine, but it's a big jump from that to max angle slides with the very temperamental 1200 bhp engine.

Not saying that it couldn't be improved, but I'm starting to get the hang of it already. =)

NoBrakes
06-02-2016, 09:49
as mentioned over here (http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?22702-Car-damages&p=1227903&viewfull=1#post1227903 ) is this an intended damage feature or a bug?

http://youtu.be/bhEjRDmcgKY

Krus Control
06-02-2016, 16:41
After spending some time with the Radbul I have to say it is the most fun of the new pack. Once you get it dialed in it's amazing. The tires seem a bit too capable of grabbing grip at all times though. Still it's possible to do any of the stuff you see Mad Mike doing on YouTube. Very surprising little car.

bmanic
06-02-2016, 16:44
Mind posting some setup advice? I can't get to grips with it at all.. my main enemy is the tank slapper that happens so suddenly once you try to pull out of a drift.

Krus Control
06-02-2016, 17:22
http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?42420-Post-the-most-competitive-laptimes-here-all-cars-tracks&p=1227854&viewfull=1#post1227854

Krus Control
06-02-2016, 18:23
The one change I've made from that post is I run decel deff at 95%.

hdh
06-02-2016, 23:31
I noticed something very odd with the Falcon today. The ffb completely changes character from practice/qualifying and race day. In FP and Q the ffb is normal, lots of little nuances. However, in the race the wheel judders and shakes like mad every time you take a corner. It feels like the front tires are skipping along the surface. I've tried with both hard and soft compounds, but still the same. I've experienced this in both online and offline races. I can quit a race and go straight to free practice, and the ffb is back to normal.

Anyone else experienced this phenomenon?


I'm on PS4 and using a T500RS btw.

I also might add that I also did an online race earlier this week with the Falcon, and the FFB issues was not present then.

Jussi Viljami Karjalainen
07-02-2016, 00:38
Have not seen that happen, maybe by chance you ran into the issue where the non-mixed signals get activated randomly? That can definitely cause a huge amount of vibrations during cornering.

hdh
07-02-2016, 00:40
Have not seen that happen, maybe by chance you ran into the issue where the non-mixed signals get activated randomly? That can definitely cause a huge amount of vibrations during cornering.

I managed to get rid of it actually. I quit pCARS, disconnected the wheel, and rebooted the PS4. That did the trick.
Still not sure if it was the game or the wheel that caused it.

Jussi Viljami Karjalainen
07-02-2016, 00:49
I managed to get rid of it actually. I quit pCARS, disconnected the wheel, and rebooted the PS4. That did the trick.
Still not sure if it was the game or the wheel that caused it.Great. =)

However if it happens again, do me a favor: Go through the HUD modes until you get to the telemetry one, and see if you can see two line in the top left graph during cornering. The normal yellow line should be there as always, but during the vibrations you were getting you might see a second white/grey line underneath it.

hdh
07-02-2016, 01:26
Great. =)

However if it happens again, do me a favor: Go through the HUD modes until you get to the telemetry one, and see if you can see two line in the top left graph during cornering. The normal yellow line should be there as always, but during the vibrations you were getting you might see a second white/grey line underneath it.

I will. I'll also try to remember to save a recording and post it. Should it happen again that is.

lollygag
07-02-2016, 06:52
I love this thing...


https://vimeo.com/154292507

Sankyo
07-02-2016, 09:26
Loved the 360 :)

Krus Control
07-02-2016, 16:23
Glad to see someone else is having fun with it. Radbul is probably my new favorite car. Once you get some wear on the rears it really comes to life.

diesel97
07-02-2016, 16:47
Loved the 360 :)

Some planned others not so planned :playful:

lollygag
07-02-2016, 17:42
Nah man, I dont have accidents :cool:

odrik93
08-02-2016, 09:55
Maybe this has been discussed already here.

Every now and then I go to the Mojave Oval to test the topspeeds of the cars. My current record is 409km/h with the P1.

However I think that the MX-5 Rad Bull can go faster than that. I go all the way with the turbo pressure and when I'm in the highest gear at some point the revs just go up without any reason. (As if I would disengage the clutch) I think it may have something to do with the turbo because when I don't max out the turbo pressure I don't have issues with that. Anyone know what it could be and how I can get maximum power without lowering the pressure?

Plage
08-02-2016, 11:02
This was indeed discussed already and the conclusion was that the sheer power simply overwhelms the clutch which will just start to slip at this point.

Casey Ringley
08-02-2016, 13:32
Mind posting some setup advice? I can't get to grips with it at all.. my main enemy is the tank slapper that happens so suddenly once you try to pull out of a drift.

One major thing I forgot to mention was tire pressures! In competition, most guys are running the rears really low. Like 10-12psi (0.75bar) low. It works out well on our model too. The extra flex it puts into the rears adds a lot in slowing down the response as it transitions from grip to slip and back the other direction.

Krus Control
08-02-2016, 14:18
One major thing I forgot to mention was tire pressures! In competition, most guys are running the rears really low. Like 10-12psi (0.75bar) low. It works out well on our model too. The extra flex it puts into the rears adds a lot in slowing down the response as it transitions from grip to slip and back the other direction.

I just tried this out. Works amazingly.

BoereJack
08-02-2016, 15:35
One major thing I forgot to mention was tire pressures! In competition, most guys are running the rears really low. Like 10-12psi (0.75bar) low. It works out well on our model too. The extra flex it puts into the rears adds a lot in slowing down the response as it transitions from grip to slip and back the other direction.



tnx i will give it a try. i have spent to much tuime already @ the testcircle mojave

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pIqXM6CQ-Cw

I am trying to get it too non-stop drift....but i got some problems....maybe you guys have an idea.....

i don't have my handbrake mapped, but for this i did, but i can.t find the button when the wheel is swinging from one side to the other...... is there an exteranl device which would work on ps4??

diesel97
08-02-2016, 15:36
One major thing I forgot to mention was tire pressures! In competition, most guys are running the rears really low. Like 10-12psi (0.75bar) low. It works out well on our model too. The extra flex it puts into the rears adds a lot in slowing down the response as it transitions from grip to slip and back the other direction.

Is there a reason why the car is not default set up with these PSI if it works so well ?

lollygag
08-02-2016, 16:28
Even when you get it tuned perfectly its still quite a workout to drive it.. Real cockpit view:


https://vimeo.com/154457179

Krus Control
08-02-2016, 18:15
Is there a reason why the car is not default set up with these PSI if it works so well ?

The low pressures are great for drifting and car control. They really cushion the rear during long slides. But I use pressures closer to the default. It controls temperatures and tire wear throughout a stint. If you use the low pressures your tires will overheat very quickly and will wear out.

bradleyland
08-02-2016, 19:12
Is there a reason why the car is not default set up with these PSI if it works so well ?

It works well for some things, but not for others. When you're drifting, you don't really care if you cook the rears and lose grip, because... Well, that's kind of the point. If you're racing, you want grip at the rear. The default setups in PCars are sensible defaults that are meant as a starting point for tuning. The low-pressure setup mentioned here rapidly puts the tires outside the optimal temperature range for grip, which is why I would imagine it wasn't used for the default setup.

Casey Ringley
08-02-2016, 19:23
What they said. It's good for sliding, but compromises everything else quite a bit. The real car, when running like that, burns through a set of tires in less than 3 minutes of use. Madness!

Jussi Viljami Karjalainen
08-02-2016, 19:54
It works well for some things, but not for others. When you're drifting, you don't really care if you cook the rears and lose grip, because... Well, that's kind of the point. If you're racing, you want grip at the rear. The default setups in PCars are sensible defaults that are meant as a starting point for tuning. The low-pressure setup mentioned here rapidly puts the tires outside the optimal temperature range for grip, which is why I would imagine it wasn't used for the default setup.Indeed, though I will slightly tack onto that point and say that they do also want grip at the rear as well. Drift cars are in many ways set up very much like RWD racing cars, with an emphasis on rear grip (it allows them to go faster when sliding, which gets you more points).

bmanic
09-02-2016, 00:59
One major thing I forgot to mention was tire pressures! In competition, most guys are running the rears really low. Like 10-12psi (0.75bar) low. It works out well on our model too. The extra flex it puts into the rears adds a lot in slowing down the response as it transitions from grip to slip and back the other direction.

Great info!! Thanks.

bmanic
09-02-2016, 01:02
Even when you get it tuned perfectly its still quite a workout to drive it.. Real cockpit view:


https://vimeo.com/154457179

Awesome awesome setup man!! Love it how you are so immersed and leaning into the corners. Hah!! That's exactly how I drive when I get really into it. :D

seb02
10-02-2016, 06:24
Hello
I would like to talk about the bmw 2002 turbo SW. It is much faster than all the other cars of the same class. This does not make a race by selecting the same class. Is it possible to put the BMW 2002 SW by Road?
Thanks

Shinzah
10-02-2016, 07:20
Hello
I would like to talk about the bmw 2002 turbo SW. It is much faster than all the other cars of the same class. This does not make a race by selecting the same class. Is it possible to put the BMW 2002 SW by Road?
Thanks

This. The car is for all intents and purposes a Group 2 car. While the other cars in Historic B are barely Group 1.

It's kind of weird that the BMW 2002 is simultaneously the best and worst car of its class.

Jussi Viljami Karjalainen
10-02-2016, 08:41
Really surprised by the decision to only allow a slick tyre option in the 2002 SW, it sounds like it would have fit the racing lineup perfectly with SuperBelts. =/

Shinzah
10-02-2016, 09:18
Really surprised by the decision to only allow a slick tyre option in the 2002 SW, it sounds like it would have fit the racing lineup perfectly with SuperBelts. =/

I'm not even sure anymore. 'maybe' with the superbelts it'd fight with the Escort and Mercedes. But it's still a Group 2 car, and the only other Group 2 car in the class is pretty much the 300 SEL. I mean, the 1600 RS could classify, but I don't think it's the FVC Formula 2 engined one and as it is, it fights pretty hard to keep with the SEL, which by the time the engine used in the 2002 SW came around was hella-long in the tooth as it was.

And that doesn't address the other two cars in the class, with the Mustang only being able to keep up to a stock geared 1600 - Sometimes and with great effort and the 2002 is behind even that.

Even with the superbelts the 2002 SW would probably still have a major edge in the category. Then the SEL (maybe tied with a well tuned 1600, depending on track).

The mustangs are far behind that and the other 2002 is far behind those.

It's a shame because the non-Formula 2 based original 2002 is a delightful car to drive, and it's almost entirely useless AND has been smacked in the face by getting a fully kitted and race prepped 2002 with F2 swap in its class.

balderz002
10-02-2016, 09:28
2002 Turbo in Road D FTW!

Shinzah
10-02-2016, 10:11
Using everyones new favourite track as an example, Bannochbrae

With much work, patience and focus I got the 2002 to a 2'53 laptime. Of course, there's more to be had since I'm using a controller.

With pretty much the default setup, the 300 SEL will do a 2'51 for me with barely any effort and the default 1600 will also do a 2'53, also with barely any effort (1600's current WR is a 2'44). My 1'51 *is* the WR for the 300 SEL currently, so that's going to need some more testing but I'm pretty sure 2'44's are possible.

The Mustangs current WR is a 2'54 but I'm pretty sure it can do 2'52's, I'll need to test that.

Meanwhile the 2002 SW is running 2'37's.

I'm a little inclined to believe the 2'44 Escort WR is a pretty blazing lap since mine wasn't anything special, but it certainly wasn't what I'd say felt like "Slow".

Anywhere, where's Jussi. He likes to test this stuff.

Jusssssiiiiiiii

Krus Control
10-02-2016, 16:18
The 2002SW is the fastest at every track. The Mercedes has a small acceleration advantage but the 2002SW has a higher top speed and an advantage in every other category.

Wari
14-02-2016, 06:14
About the KTM, I seem to have only one working Reverse Light . Is that standard? Because there are two light fixtures but only the right one seems to work.

Plage
14-02-2016, 11:59
Good spotting. The one on the left should actually be a red fog light according to the photos I found.

wabbit
15-02-2016, 11:44
227591

Driving the BMW 1M StanceWorks, what does this bar I've highlighted represent?

could_do_better
15-02-2016, 11:46
Overboard as detailed in 1st post of this thread

danowat
15-02-2016, 11:46
227591

Driving the BMW 1M StanceWorks, what does this bar I've highlighted represent?

It's the overboost system.


Engine is the same, but cranked up the turbo for 470hp and added an overboost feature when you go full throttle. It'll let you have 8s of 0.25bar extra boost and then 30s cooldown before firing again.

wabbit
15-02-2016, 12:25
Perfect, thanks. Yeah I should read more, have glanced through but didn't remember reading that before I asked :rolleyes: