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racesafegrandad
12-02-2016, 09:24
Monza, the dash down to the first chicane, I got a good qualifying and was third on the grid, I brake and turn in and....bang! I am taken out by the inevitable missile with a nob at the wheel almost every time!

I am racesafegrandad. I am 71 years old but I know how to race online, from Geoff Crammond's F1 through GridAutosport to now P.Cars.
So if you see this old git in front of you, [or behind you] give me a chance to race you....please!

AtomicSphincter
12-02-2016, 09:41
I think that without some sort of a penalty system in place similar to what iracing has done it'll continue to happen, mostly due to very young racers who actually enjoy smashing into other racers who are slowing down for a turn. I mostly race in a league now because of that problem alone. Last week I tried a random online lobby for the first time in a while, and every single race one or two racers purposely didn't brake before the corner with intent to take someone out.

Panopticism
12-02-2016, 10:10
To be fair, that first chicane at Monza is a huge bottleneck. It is easy to out-brake yourself and inadvertently collide with the car in front of you. Quite a lot of people use that coloured line thing and only hit the brakes when the graphic tells them to, and I don't think the graphic changes relative to other cars.

Diamond_Eyes
12-02-2016, 10:39
+1 for online GHOST mode racing

:ghost:

TwilightUA
12-02-2016, 11:09
+1 for online GHOST mode racing

:ghost:

And how is it different from solo time attack?

Diamond_Eyes
12-02-2016, 11:47
And how is it different from solo time attack?

Ermmm, it's not solo

I'm talking about multiplayer online racing in ghost mode so there's no collisions and no frustrations. You're the master of your own mistakes and not the victim of others'.

racesafegrandad
12-02-2016, 11:50
Ermmm, it's not solo

I'm talking about multiplayer online racing in ghost mode so there's no collisions and no frustrations. You're the master of your own mistakes and not the victim of others'.

I know it works but its just not like the real thing to me. I just had a race at that Suzuki look alike track? and got away in third place and had a clean race.....wonderful!!!! :)

Diamond_Eyes
12-02-2016, 12:08
I know it works but its just not like the real thing to me. I just had a race at that Suzuki look alike track? and got away in third place and had a clean race.....wonderful!!!! :)

You're better off griding up at the back and attempt to sail through the inevitable first corner melee.

But ghost racing can look real enough its just that you're protected from being nerfed. Bet Mark Webber or Rossi would have loved that option!

Raven403
12-02-2016, 12:09
I think that without some sort of a penalty system in place similar to what iracing has done it'll continue to happen, mostly due to very young racers who actually enjoy smashing into other racers who are slowing down for a turn. I mostly race in a league now because of that problem alone. Last week I tried a random online lobby for the first time in a while, and every single race one or two racers purposely didn't brake before the corner with intent to take someone out.

Sorry but Iracing is no better. Especially in the Rookie series, and god forbid you race in an UN official series where the penalty points dont count towards your Rep. ALSO Ive been spun dozens of time, on purpose in Iracing, and IIIIII get a 4 point contact penalty when I did nothing, so Iracing's system isnt exactly weeding it out either. HOwever like you said a SIMILAR system that actually works would be nice. Maybe one that gives players bans from Lobbies for repeated offenses, but like I said it would have to work properly

My answer to the OPs question is basically, if your not expecting that stuff to happen in a public online lobby in any racing title I dont know what to tell you. League racing to me is the only real way to ensure that kind of stuff doesnt happen, and even in leagues accidents happen. If you want to just jump in to a Public Lobby and get fair racing, its going to happen maybe 40% of the time? That might even be generous. This isnt a phenomenon limited to racing games either. Ive been in plenty of Battlefield games where one guy on the team thinks its funny to blow up his own teams vehicles, or do nothing but grief other players. Its online multiplayer, its gonna happen.

Best solution is probably Host your lobby with a 15-20 minute quali, and if someone is behaving like an ass, kick them. Wont eliminate it all together but it might help who knows, otherwise maybe join a league and stick to that. I just think its un-realistic to expect anything else than what you describe from a Public Online Lobby. You dont know who knows the track, who knows the car, who is using the line** and so on.

** People using the Racing line cause untold amounts of havoc online and for me since I dont use it, the braking points are way different and someone driving staring or looking for that line isnt paying attention to the cars around them. I try to give everyone a wide berth in public MP just bc its too unpredictable to judge what someone is doing.

TwilightUA
12-02-2016, 12:25
Ermmm, it's not solo

I'm talking about multiplayer online racing in ghost mode so there's no collisions and no frustrations. You're the master of your own mistakes and not the victim of others'.

I understand what you're talking about. But IMO ghosting is the worst thing can be done to a racing game, because you can no longer pay attention what's going around you and just pick any line you want, like in time attack we already have.

hkraft300
12-02-2016, 13:15
Also people forget aero effects. When you're drafting up behind someone, you're going slightly faster than usual, so your brake point is sooner. At the same time you have less down force because you're in the slipstream of multiple cars, which has an even greater effect on the brake point in aero dependant cars.

About the driving line (ghastly things), having seen a couple of videos of them being used, I am starting to think those using them isn't solely concentrating on it. Rather, they're distracted by other things (scenery, other cars, their own car) and trying to focus on the line at the same time is too much to process so they're not reacting fast enough to the line turning red, waiting for it and hitting the brake 1 second after is a huge miss. At track speeds, braking 1 second later than you need to is disastrous. The average visual reaction time is ~0.75 seconds.
Those not using the racing line rather anticipates the braking point because we have track familiarity and know our brake point is approaching.

Racing in traffic is vastly different from FP and TT where you're out on your own. There's a lot going on with a small margin of error. Imperative to know your car and be flexible in your lines.

As good as you may be, there's only so much you can avoid wreckers and just bad aggressive racers. I've let the latter pass me on occasion only to regain my position as they're getting cosy with the barriers or another car ahead of me.

Even in league races I've come across people who feel in some way entitled to the track because they're faster. Was running a team-based league race at Bathurst where my teammate was running a cracking race maintaining his tyres for the 1-stop strategy and a guy whinging on the mic that he's being held up. Stiff s* if you're fast enough to pass clean then do so. My team mate held his position long enough for the "fast" guy to get impatient and crash out :)

Anyway public online is a hit/miss affair. I've found a few cracking races among the dullness. It seems a lot cleaner since the beginning though. Maybe many of the wreckers have moved on to NFS.

RomKnight
12-02-2016, 14:16
On that, who noticed the Porsche getting sideways when the Bentley past by it in Bathurst 12h? ;)

AWESOME.

Fact, aero has an effect up to 3 cars ahead (maybe 4, i can't quite recall but it is like like)

My only grip is still the disconnects. It ruins online, period :(

DECATUR PLAYA
12-02-2016, 14:46
Wrecks are part of racing. Ramming a guy has nothing to do with the racing line or any of these other things that guys are mentioning. Race line or no race line missing your braking point is just missing your braking point period.

Being a online public multiplayer guy only I have seen it all. I have given lots of guys a love tap in the turn by mistake most of which is because I couldn't believe the guy in front of me was taking the turn as slowly as he was going to.

The bottom line is p cars is a game of precision braking, throttle, and steering inputs and it is very easy to make mistakes especially for the inexperienced.

By the way I think with the current tire physics that the racing thru the turns is better now than it's ever been as seems to me that now you really have a lot more control over the car as you brake in for turns.

Krus Control
12-02-2016, 17:15
80% of the people you run into online are a problem. Be it rammer, stupidity, waaay too slow, stopped on the racing line in a blind corner, etc. Most people, I've found, just hurt the hardcore racing community. High concentrations of these people can be found in GT3 and FA lobbies. In historic and road car lobbies it's less so. There are still good people to race with, they're just far outnumbered by people who are not good to race with. Just how it is.

MortICi
12-02-2016, 19:39
Personally, I don't have a problem with Pub play like in the early release days. A lot of kids picked up the game and really don't know race craft, some of them just get pissed that they are slow and you blow by them. I noticed that if I just stay with the pack where people are racing and not just trying to win, you will have more clean driving and people will actually try to play properly. In most cases I can see the accident coming so I hand back, I let people easily pass me and let their jollys get all riled up that they somehow are going to win in the first corner, and then I slowly and cleanly pass them as they are rotating 360* and probably swearing or pressing esc and navigating to exit....

I also follow certain players at least for a lap to figure out their pace and brake points, this helps me figure out where I am faster than them and make sure to try to make my move in those sections if possible. I am starting to feel that this game is too dynamic/realistic in some aspects and people just glaze over, and don't treat a race like a real race...

I don't blame those that wreck the game, I mean if I was trying to race and got blown away all the time and no one stayed behind to at least show me the brake points etc I might just go on a wrecking rampage myself.

It all comes down to how you want to play, I personally don't care about winning at all, I care more about the racing especially door to door or tail to nose, that's the exciting part, being first by 45 seconds is just basically hot lapping, might as well just play offline... If I am in P1 I often slow down so that p2/3/4 can have some exciting fighting to do. I also think a lot of pub servers don't have long enough races to really affect the outcomes, proper safety car would help group everyone together and not reward the guy that can cleanly get past the first corner. Most of the races within the first 2 minutes have half the field disconnect because they spun or whatever.

Either way, racing is a niche market. Don't get to riled up about it. Just keep pressing play and figure out what you can do to minimize the impact on your game experience and honestly stop worrying about the inexperienced or griefers, its a game at the end of the day and as such should be treated as one.

This reminds me, I should upload some of the online replays I have from the recent races, some were super tense. Whoever I raced with at Road America (only 3 of us) holy crap what a race that was, everyone made mistakes and so many position changes.

Meh, I guess the game is as exciting and challenging as you make it. I had some epic races in the past two weeks on pub servers, I don't have the time or patience to dedicate to a league. As the kids leave the game to pick up the next shiny thing the quality of players will increase, and you can only hope that all those who whined and complained and said they are quitting the game because of crashers eventually come back, hopefully they don't end up being the crashers they once complained about....

MortICi
12-02-2016, 19:44
Also people forget aero effects. When you're drafting up behind someone, you're going slightly faster than usual, so your brake point is sooner. At the same time you have less down force because you're in the slipstream of multiple cars, which has an even greater effect on the brake point in aero dependant cars.

About the driving line (ghastly things), having seen a couple of videos of them being used, I am starting to think those using them isn't solely concentrating on it. Rather, they're distracted by other things (scenery, other cars, their own car) and trying to focus on the line at the same time is too much to process so they're not reacting fast enough to the line turning red, waiting for it and hitting the brake 1 second after is a huge miss. At track speeds, braking 1 second later than you need to is disastrous. The average visual reaction time is ~0.75 seconds.
Those not using the racing line rather anticipates the braking point because we have track familiarity and know our brake point is approaching.

Racing in traffic is vastly different from FP and TT where you're out on your own. There's a lot going on with a small margin of error. Imperative to know your car and be flexible in your lines.

As good as you may be, there's only so much you can avoid wreckers and just bad aggressive racers. I've let the latter pass me on occasion only to regain my position as they're getting cosy with the barriers or another car ahead of me.

Even in league races I've come across people who feel in some way entitled to the track because they're faster. Was running a team-based league race at Bathurst where my teammate was running a cracking race maintaining his tyres for the 1-stop strategy and a guy whinging on the mic that he's being held up. Stiff s* if you're fast enough to pass clean then do so. My team mate held his position long enough for the "fast" guy to get impatient and crash out :)

Anyway public online is a hit/miss affair. I've found a few cracking races among the dullness. It seems a lot cleaner since the beginning though. Maybe many of the wreckers have moved on to NFS.

I will be honest, I feel like the helmet cam is a little cheater to me at least. The moment it moves to look to apex, I pretty much know that's my braking point, if I brake when the helmet moves to start to look to apex its near perfect if you get the timing. But some people can't stand the movement, but to me I can't drive without it, the view change and visibility of the corner you get from it for me are far to valuable.. Plus the sound is muffled like you would be wearing a helmet and other sounds are actuented so from an immersion perspective I think its better.

To each their own, but you have valid points here.

Innerspace_HQ
12-02-2016, 21:14
High concentrations of these people can be found in GT3 and FA lobbies.

This isn't my experience of FA. I think most people understand how a tiny knock could kill either one of you, or both at once, and it's generally avoided. FA has been the most respectful class I've seen in this game. People move off line if you're on a hot lap etc. It's the s***ty quality of the online experience that kills it for me, not the racers.

ZephyrRacing
12-02-2016, 22:03
This isn't my experience of FA. I think most people understand how a tiny knock could kill either one of you, or both at once, and it's generally avoided. FA has been the most respectful class I've seen in this game. People move off line if you're on a hot lap etc. It's the s***ty quality of the online experience that kills it for me, not the racers.

Sometimes it's the racers, though. I can spend hours online, flying around Spa in my Z4 GT3, or on Monza in my FA. But then there's always that one dickhead, half of the time, that's decided to stop in the middle of the track to cause annoyance. Or, you slow down for a corner, and bang! Someone deliberately rams into you and the race is over. I have a great time online, and the experience is great too (when the server's working, sort online out SMS!). But you can't put no blame on the racers, because sometimes, they deserve the blame.

Krus Control
12-02-2016, 22:11
This isn't my experience of FA. I think most people understand how a tiny knock could kill either one of you, or both at once, and it's generally avoided. FA has been the most respectful class I've seen in this game. People move off line if you're on a hot lap etc. It's the s***ty quality of the online experience that kills it for me, not the racers.

FA isn't always bad. GT3 usually is. At least on PC you get lots of noobs in FA who ruin your quali then quit on the first lap. I've had bad experiences in every class but the highest concentration is in those 2 classes and GT3 especially.

Innerspace_HQ
12-02-2016, 22:18
But you can't put no blame on the racers

I've not had one instance of unsportsmanlike behaviour in a FA lobby. I've seen plenty of lack of skill, but people can't be blamed for that particularly.

Maybe I've been lucky. GT3 is a shambles though, I've just not seen it's like in FA. It's the glitch ad nauseam that ruins most races for me. Dreadful way to deliver a multiplayer.

Umer Ahmad
12-02-2016, 22:22
Yeah, I tend to avoid GT3 and I never race Monza with strangers. T1 is guaranteed disaster every time. Brno is a safer bet (lots of run-off for the krashkids)

ZephyrRacing
12-02-2016, 22:25
I've not had one instance of unsportsmanlike behaviour in a FA lobby. I've seen plenty of lack of skill, but people can't be blamed for that particularly.

Maybe I've been lucky. GT3 is a shambles though, I've just not seen it's like in FA. It's the glitch ad nauseam that ruins most races for me. Dreadful way to deliver a multiplayer.

Unsportsmanlike behaviour starts as soon as the race starts, for me. Everybody just rams into each other, it's saddening really, because that 30 minute qualifying session you got 3rd place in overall went out the window.
But the glitchiness of GT3 lobbies is appalling, it sometimes does affect my quali sessions, or my race in general. Topped off with blatant unsportsmanlike behaviour, it's a great way to make you find another lobby.

Jussi Viljami Karjalainen
12-02-2016, 22:34
Fact, aero has an effect up to 3 cars ahead (maybe 4, i can't quite recall but it is like like)It can have an effect even further behind than that (in reality at least). In Simon McBeath's book Competition Car Aerodynamics the estimate was that a 2005 F1 car could lose around 20% of total downforce (and 13% of total drag) when following someone at 8 car lengths. =)

Innerspace_HQ
12-02-2016, 22:37
Unsportsmanlike behaviour starts as soon as the race starts, for me. Everybody just rams into each other, it's saddening really, because that 30 minute qualifying session you got 3rd place in overall went out the window.
But the glitchiness of GT3 lobbies is appalling, it sometimes does affect my quali sessions, or my race in general. Topped off with blatant unsportsmanlike behaviour, it's a great way to make you find another lobby.

Aye, I've pretty much stopped doing anything but private races now. Although even at that it's not exactly free from glitch trouble, just less so. It's incredibly frustrating considering I only bought the game to race online. Offline holds zero interest for me (except TT obviously). Lesson learned in that department, though. I'll never buy a new game until I hear solid and frequent reports on the condition of it's online component.

ZephyrRacing
12-02-2016, 22:43
Aye, I've pretty much stopped doing anything but private races now. Although even at that it's not exactly free from glitch trouble, just less so. It's incredibly frustrating considering I only bought the game to race online. Offline holds zero interest for me (except TT obviously). Lesson learned in that department, though. I'll never buy a new game until I hear solid and frequent reports on the condition of it's online component.

Online itself needs fixing. The thing that pisses me off the most, is the freezing that happens when someone joins the lobby. And when it's a big lobby, it happens all the time since people are joining/leaving multiple times. It seriously jeopardises your experience, because you can't play properly.

hkraft300
12-02-2016, 23:01
Internet service and infrastructure should be much better considering what we pay. A bit of space to compensate for lag goes a long way, but its not too bad.
Incredibly fast race cars with the dynamic accuracy of this game is too much for most people. FA being one of them. The wrecks in that and the LMP1 class come from, I think, mistakes more than intentional.
Sprint races suck too. What move could you possibly set up in a 5-6 lap race! By the time the car is warmed up properly the race is over.
Anyway tracks are a big factor too: a wide spacious track like Road America or Watkins will see you better racing then tighter technical tracks.
As for racecraft everyone needs to watch the safe is fast channel on YouTube.

Krus Control
12-02-2016, 23:14
Online itself needs fixing. The thing that pisses me off the most, is the freezing that happens when someone joins the lobby. And when it's a big lobby, it happens all the time since people are joining/leaving multiple times. It seriously jeopardises your experience, because you can't play properly.

If I recall correctly this used to be a lot worse. At least for me it has improved.

Innerspace_HQ
13-02-2016, 00:00
If I recall correctly this used to be a lot worse. At least for me it has improved.

It's actually went the other way for me post patch 6. People joining now results in a 2-3 second blackout. Screen freezes and audio continues. Next thing the screen unsticks and I'm in a wall. It was never this bad. Providing I hosted (fairly fat pipe) I could have a full room with nobody reporting issue. Alas, no longer. Lucky if I get to complete quali half the time.

JJ Addison
13-02-2016, 00:03
Want to race Pcars with drivers on PC, who know how to race and arent just playing asteroids...... go here http://precisionracingleague.com/ocp/index.php?page=start

marklar
13-02-2016, 08:03
Sorry but Iracing is no better.
It's far, far better.


Especially in the Rookie series
It's your fault if you're still in rookie series. This is the place to teach people how to drive safe and clean, not how to win a race.


ALSO Ive been spun dozens of time, on purpose in Iracing, and IIIIII get a 4 point contact penalty when I did nothing
Yes, you did. You let them hit you.

ZephyrRacing
13-02-2016, 08:08
It's actually went the other way for me post patch 6. People joining now results in a 2-3 second blackout. Screen freezes and audio continues. Next thing the screen unsticks and I'm in a wall. It was never this bad. Providing I hosted (fairly fat pipe) I could have a full room with nobody reporting issue. Alas, no longer. Lucky if I get to complete quali half the time.

The exact same thing happens to me mate. It's even worse when you go off and crash into someone because of it, and then you're the one that gets kicked from the lobby...!

Mulder71
13-02-2016, 08:09
At least the AI in Pcars is behaving the same as the online guys, overtaking through the grass, jumping over the curbs, trying to drive through you.... lol

ZephyrRacing
13-02-2016, 08:49
At least the AI in Pcars is behaving the same as the online guys, overtaking through the grass, jumping over the curbs, trying to drive through you.... lol

They're dirty bastards haha

Umer Ahmad
13-02-2016, 09:19
They're dirty bastards haha

Agree, but sometimes it makes for a great race.


http://youtu.be/GAAC0VbH-i8