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Robsharples
16-02-2016, 10:03
This DC issue is worrying me now and I'm reading that's it's because of packet sizes server problems you name it, it's been posted on here. Point is this doesn't seem to me like anyone knows what's really going on. So is pcars on the ps4 going to die? Because if so is it definitely working perfectly on the Pc?

Our community may be switching over to the PC

Sankyo
16-02-2016, 10:10
I don't think there's such a drama as the title suggests. You're talking about multiplayer only, not the game as a whole. Plenty of people enjoying the game offline. Would be nice to reflect that in the thread's title.

Robsharples
16-02-2016, 10:17
Atm we don't have a racing sim on the ps4, I honestly hope that this can be fixed but its not sounding to promising. I still think that this is an outrage but I want to race. It now seems like the only way I'm ever going to enjoy this game again is if i buy a gaming pc :(

Our full community at Vrroom.org all want to race online. Nobody in our community is interested in single player my friend, the AI is just to slow.

Robsharples
16-02-2016, 10:20
Vrroom.org as been going for over 5y and we have some of the very best jockeys from all over the world racing with us. Ask these other communities they know the guys who race here. Non of them are interested in single player, not at all.

Biddrace
16-02-2016, 10:26
I don't think there's such a drama as the title suggests. You're talking about multiplayer only, not the game as a whole. Plenty of people enjoying the game offline. Would be nice to reflect that in the thread's title.

and all the people playing online ?
the title seem right to me because many will leave this game to move on.

you never know what happens , silverstone classic is still broken but you say to fix it ....

how can we believe you when you say that is the psn and not the game ?

I hope in A / C

Sankyo
16-02-2016, 10:27
Nobody in our community is interested in single player my friend, the AI is just to slow.
I understand that from your point of view the online disconnects are game-killing, but for most other PS4 players it's not because they race offline only.

Madmazz116
16-02-2016, 10:29
I have to say Rob I am inclined to agree with you. I do like the single player, as im not that good, but its limited in its appeal and its much more fun racing against real people, and people who want to race, not idiots who try and ram you off because they are losing.

I cant undersatnd why no one is holding their hands up and saying, sorry yes there is a problem , we are trying to fix it, coz at the end of the day there is a problem, its quite clear, and im not pointing fingers at SMS here (mods). I just want an answer.

chig88
16-02-2016, 10:30
Was hoping to be involved next month in the restarting of our league which originally ran from June to December. If the disconnect problem is as bad as it sounds I don't think I'll bother.

Would certainly be the end of the game for me unfortunately. Especially with the scripted weather in career mode and the lack of a custom championship creator.

Biddrace
16-02-2016, 10:33
I have to say Rob I am inclined to agree with you. I do like the single player, as im not that good, but its limited in its appeal and its much more fun racing against real people, and people who want to race, not idiots who try and ram you off because they are losing.

I cant undersatnd why no one is holding their hands up and saying, sorry yes there is a problem , we are trying to fix it, coz at the end of the day there is a problem, its quite clear, and im not pointing fingers at SMS here (mods). I just want an answer.


..... here is this in a nutshell

because we go around ?

Sankyo
16-02-2016, 10:37
I cant undersatnd why no one is holding their hands up and saying, sorry yes there is a problem , we are trying to fix it, coz at the end of the day there is a problem, its quite clear, and im not pointing fingers at SMS here (mods). I just want an answer.
It has already been stated by the devs that they are looking into the issue, both on the game side and on the PSN side.

Madmazz116
16-02-2016, 10:41
It has already been stated by the devs that they are looking into the issue, both on the game side and on the PSN side.

I know that Remco, its just that people like this game and they want to play it, not just single player, so much so that its frustrating when they cant. Thats all.

Robsharples
16-02-2016, 10:45
I can appreciate that Remco but we know what the problem is already don't we? I thought it was because of this peer 2 peer system and we'll if we're not getting dedicated servers anytime soon then what's the point in trying to play this game. I'm just so fed up because i like many many others only bought the ps4 to play this game. The best part of Ģ1000 for a console, wheel and copy of the game. Just so fed up with pcars and this forum, all of it atm

Robsharples
16-02-2016, 10:46
A fantastic game held back by bugs and problems. I also feel let down by the slightly mad team for allowing this to happen.

Mascot
16-02-2016, 10:50
I can appreciate that Remco but we know what the problem is already don't we? I thought it was because of this peer 2 peer system and we'll if we're not getting dedicated servers anytime soon then what's the point in trying to play this game. I'm just so fed up because i like many many others only bought the ps4 to play this game. The best part of Ģ1000 for a console, wheel and copy of the game. Just so fed up with pcars and this forum, all of it atm

P2P connections were OK (not perfect, but OK) up until patch 8.0 which *seems* to be the trigger for the current problems, so it can't really be said that P2P connections are the definite root of the problem.

I too am worried about the longevity of pCARS if the connection problems are not resolved soon. Almost all of my game time is racing online.

RomKnight
16-02-2016, 10:56
To the OP, i'm not sure your luck will improve on PC. in 2 races we got nearly half the people disconnected.

As i've mentioned somewhere else, usually the 1st ones go changing into the race, then the 2nd batch go within 5m of the race start.

chig88
16-02-2016, 10:56
P2P connections were OK (not perfect, but OK) up until patch 8.0 which *seems* to be the trigger for the current problems, so it can't really be said that P2P connections are the definite root of the problem.

I too am worried about the longevity of pCARS if the connection problems are not resolved soon. Almost all of my game time is racing online.

Given that the last few patches haven't really fixed anything significant, I think there's an argument to be made that they're causing more problems than they are rectifying.

Perhaps it would be a good thing if the patches stopped altogether. With problems cropping up at the current rate, the game may already be the best it can be.

Robsharples
16-02-2016, 11:00
I think most if not all the guys on here that's being vocal probably have spent a lot of time setting up leagues and communities and are speaking for their members to. We are all very passionate about our racing and probably non of us spend that much time playing anything else other than pcars. I didn't start this thread to cause trouble, I genuinely think that this could be the end of Pcars multiplayer on the ps4 and if it turns out that this is the case then it will be a very sad day indeed.

azidahaka
16-02-2016, 11:07
Yesterday in our league 9 started 4 disconnected....

Invincible
16-02-2016, 11:26
I just found an article regarding PSN, where it says that there are currently problems with PSN. It's only German unfortunately. http://www.pcgames.de/PlayStation-Network-Spiel-27943/News/PSN-down-offline-Stoerung-1158619/

But it seems that it will continue for a day or two and it is clearly not only pcars related.

Renoldo1990
16-02-2016, 11:29
Yea, I posted the same in the other Thread yesterday.

"
http://playstation-experience.com/2016/02/14/playstation-network-schraenkt-sony-die-datenmenge-ein/

Sorry for posting a german URL, but I will give a short translation.

It says that the PSN highly restricts the available pack of data per User atm. Obviously the Sony Servers are overloaded. Especially in the Peak-Hours when many Users are online.

Small downloads of less than 1GB can take more than 1 hour atm. Especially on tuesdays when in generally the new updates and patches for all games are released.

Share Play and Twitch can't be used in the Peak-Hours atm. Even with a 50 mb/s it says your Internet-Connection is too slow.

The PSN diables automatic downloads/updates/patches in standby mode. You have to manually click and start the download. By doing this they prevent the servers from beeing even more overloaded.

To be able too keep the PSN online for all Users the data packs per User per second are restricted. This probably is the reason for the dicsonnects in Project Cars because the provided data packs per user from Sony are too small to keep the online-gaming of Project Cars alive.

Excluded from this trouble are games which use their own dedicated servers like FIFA for example.

Hope it can be fixed speedy. But it sounds like a issue which could last for a longer time."

Madmazz116
16-02-2016, 11:34
Yea, I posted the same in the other Thread yesterday.

"

so most games will be affected then, so what the hell is the point of subscribing to this shit?..why is this "suddenly" happening?

Renoldo1990
16-02-2016, 11:39
Also from the other Thread.

It's only possible to speculate.



Renoldo1990

Maybe there could be some of these DDOS-Attacks on the PSN again. This would explain why the servers are so overloaded. Anyway I can't think of any other reason why the Sony Servers should be overloaded right now. For example on Christmal the rush on the PSN should be even higher, and if i remember right, there weren't any issues?

The last Sony-Update was on 13.01. But the PSN issues just started in February if i remember right. So the problems can't be brought up with the last Sony Patch.

Unusual for such a DDOS-Attack is that none of typical hacker groups is claiming for it. (like Lizzard-Squad for example.) Usually the groups like to boast about such things.
But on the other hand it would explain why Sony stays this quiet all the time. Would be a massive image damage again for Sony suffering from such attacks..

Yorkie065
16-02-2016, 11:43
Guys, I get the frustration as we get it on PC in our league too, but please be reasonable. Remco has said that the devs are investigating what is the cause of the issue, and there is nothing we can really do until they come back with their findings other than to wait and keep an eye out on the forums. It sucks, I know as we all want to play online, but rushing the devs and pointing blame when we don't know where the issue is coming from certainly won't help.

Edit: Ok, my post was somewhat ninja'd with posts containing good info. Even still, lets stay cool and see what the devs come back with. In the mean time, eat a Yorkie bar or something :p

Robsharples
16-02-2016, 12:02
Agreed Yorkie.. Are you guys still getting this DC problem on the Pc? I'm as frustrated by this as anyone but let's not get another thread closed, this thread isn't for lambasting the Mods either

Madmazz116
16-02-2016, 12:03
Guys, I get the frustration as we get it on PC in our league too, but please be reasonable. Remco has said that the devs are investigating what is the cause of the issue, and there is nothing we can really do until they come back with their findings other than to wait and keep an eye out on the forums. It sucks, I know as we all want to play online, but rushing the devs and pointing blame when we don't know where the issue is coming from certainly won't help.

Edit: Ok, my post was somewhat ninja'd with posts containing good info. Even still, lets stay cool and see what the devs come back with. In the mean time, eat a Yorkie bar or something :p

ok so if your getting in on PC as well, then it cant just be PSN can it?..PC's dont connect to PSN do they?

Sankyo
16-02-2016, 12:14
ok so if your getting in on PC as well, then it cant just be PSN can it?..PC's dont connect to PSN do they?
Depends on frequency and exact cause. Also PC peer-to-peer connections can be unstable.

Robsharples
16-02-2016, 12:24
Depends on frequency and exact cause. Also PC peer-to-peer connections can be unstable.

We genuinely screen all members before allowing them on our site and i can say 100% hand on heart that everyone in our rooms have very good connections. We also get everyone to reset the ps4 before any league racing, turn all WiFi off phones etc the lot. We are very strict on this. Yet it's still happening? Not a jibe just hoping that you can see that we take connections very seriously. I really hope you guys can shed some light on this soon, for now i suppose ill just have to communicate with the wife :( God forbid maybe even have a conversation ;)

Yorkie065
16-02-2016, 12:40
Yes we get issues on PC, but I'm not going to lay full blame on SMS. My personal internet connection is crap to say the least, and has been the cause of a number of DC's for myself personally. As for other times when multiple people have dropped out, in our leagues we're on DS's. 1 of which was newer but also a little more unstable and we had a few issues with compared to the DS we were running prior so we reverted back and the issues are mostly gone and things are a lot more stable and consistent. We also know that Steam have been having issues lately too and had times where steam just drops people for no real reason, and we've had once issue with Steam VAC authentication didn't go through properly or in time for people with slower connections (this included me) so they got kicked from the server.

There's just a whole heap of different variables and possibilities it could be, and a lot of it is down to the servers themselves or rather the hosts connection if it's pier to pier, Steam, PSN for you guys, the software that people are running in the background or their own personal network connection. There's times when the host drops and it just pulls a number of people with them for no real reason or they didn't connect with the new host quick enough. I'm sure, there could be a few things that SMS can do but I can't help but think that a lot of issues are beyond their control and lay somewhere else, especially after changing DS's and now have something more stable. Devs are limited though to the way it is done for PCars 1 so there might not be a huge amount they can do their end, for PCars 2 they're adjusting their approach to get better performance and stability.

Madmazz116
16-02-2016, 12:42
for now i suppose ill just have to communicate with the wife :( God forbid maybe even have a conversation ;)


lol...

Robsharples
16-02-2016, 12:48
Thank you Yorkie for that much appreciated. Now hang fire guys and let the ninja's do their work. Scrap your leagues for now and run some casual race now events instead so that if you do keep getting a DC then at least it's not the end of the world.

jenslaursen89
16-02-2016, 12:48
If i should reflect on the offline part of project cars, then it is awesome except for the AI... They drive like you aint even around... Not even pushing it they will just ram you all the time.

But I like the free practice part - thats great !!! :-)

Umer Ahmad
16-02-2016, 12:49
At least for me and the 17 guys a raced with yesterday PC/STEAM is a hell of a lot more stable. We can actuallt race and enjoy ourselves.

I did 3 online races yesterday on STEAM during the PS4/PSN sh*tstorm and i got no disconnects. And i saw just 1 or 2 guys disconnect (probably out of 50 racers total). We were NOT using Dedicated Servers

Sankyo
16-02-2016, 12:52
If i should reflect on the offline part of project cars, then it is awesome except for the AI... They drive like you aint even around... Not even pushing it they will just ram you all the time.

That would be a different discussion, but in general I don't agree. Not saying the AI is perfect and I think in open wheelers there's some extra issues, but if you race the AI as if they were human opponents then I find them pretty great to race. The problem that I see often is that people race AI expecting them to jump out of the way whenever the player thinks he made a good move, even if it wasn't a good move.

Robsharples
16-02-2016, 13:05
The AI in this game is perfect, its reaction to your driving and it's the best out there by a mile. DON'T change that lol. Sorry for going off topic.

Let's all just think positive guys, because let's face it once this is fixed this is the best game/sim ever and ive played Assetto Corsa.

racesafegrandad
16-02-2016, 13:13
The AI in this game is perfect, its reaction to your driving and it's the best out there by a mile. DON'T change that lol. Sorry for going off topic.

Let's all just think positive guys, because let's face it once this is fixed this is the best game/sim ever and ive played Assetto Corsa.

My sentiments exactly! The AI in this sim is the first AI that is truly realistic in most classes. Playing off line is almost as good as online with real people. in fact there are no idiots just out to ram you off.
As Tommy Trinder would have said “you lucky lucky people” [yes, I am that old]

P.S. I played for three hours today with no Disconnect so I wont jump under a train just yet.

Madmazz116
16-02-2016, 13:33
The AI in this game is perfect,

I wouldnt say that Robbo, it is very good, but it gives up its position far too easily , just an accidental touch and it moves out the way or goes off the track , Just my opinion...(sorry off topic)

Robsharples
16-02-2016, 13:40
Still the best by far though ;) I don't think it's that bad to go slightly off topic either with this thread, we should keep in mind all of the positive points to this game and there are a lot of them.

Tomcul
16-02-2016, 14:29
Have to agree the ai is pretty good when you respect them.
If their lap times were brought in line so ai at 100 were laping the same times as the top time trial times as they can be inconsistent at times..

Robsharples
16-02-2016, 14:31
You know these new apps that's recently come out (I have one to) we need to turn on the udp i think it's called. Could it be down to that maybe?

Mascot
16-02-2016, 14:57
You know these new apps that's recently come out (I have one to) we need to turn on the udp i think it's called. Could it be down to that maybe?

It's already been confirmed that companion apps and UDP settings have nothing to do with these mass disconnections.

Robsharples
16-02-2016, 15:13
Np sorry my friend i didn't read that. Anyone been on yet this afternoon and what's the situation today? Will be home soon to test again for myself but was just wondering.

Umer Ahmad
16-02-2016, 15:25
Someone in UK posted he ran for a good 3 hours earlier today, no disconnects.

But I also see a post from guys in Ohio they can't run an online session.

So mixed results, typical.

Slicker_VR
16-02-2016, 15:30
I understand that from your point of view the online disconnects are game-killing, but for most other PS4 players it's not because they race offline only.

do you have figures to support this, or are you just going by the number of people who've given up on multiplayer because of the issues?

edit: and the idiots ;)

i-am-the-stig
16-02-2016, 15:49
Before all these disconnects started to happen on my streams I noticed there was a a lot more rubber banding.. I like every one else spent a lot of money on this game and bought every dlc just to play online

Konan
16-02-2016, 15:57
do you have figures to support this, or are you just going by the number of people who've given up on multiplayer because of the issues?

edit: and the idiots ;)

I don't think it's funny calling offline players "idiots" even if you put a smiley behind it....
A lot of people could take this as offensive and there was no call for that.
Many of "us idiots" play offline for various reasons and not only because whe don't want to...
Speaking for myself,I've heard that a lot of the "idiots" play online so i stay away (only one of the reasons though)
No offence....

Edit: after all whe're all here for the same thing:getting answers/help...or helping others.

Boskapongen
16-02-2016, 16:04
I dont know if Time Trial counts as "off-line" but same issue there....

Bealdor
16-02-2016, 16:07
I dont know if Time Trial counts as "off-line" but same issue there....

No, TT counts as an online element IMO.

Robsharples
16-02-2016, 16:08
Slicker please don't be calling people idiots, I understand what you ment but definitely uncalled for.

Roger Prynne
16-02-2016, 16:16
I don't think it's funny calling offline players "idiots" even if you put a smiley behind it....
A lot of people could take this as offensive and there was no call for that.
Many of "us idiots" play offline for various reasons and not only because whe don't want to...
Speaking for myself,I've heard that a lot of the "idiots" play online so i stay away (only one of the reasons though)
No offence....

Slicker please don't be calling people idiots, I understand what you ment but definitely uncalled for.

I think he meant the 'Idiots' online, as in the wrekers etc.... :D

Robsharples
16-02-2016, 16:32
Here we go firing here up baby, we're actually only racing at 20:00 tonight so i will see what happens. Yea and sorry Slicker i think that i may have read that last post wrong to. My bad.

Konan
16-02-2016, 16:36
Here we go firing here up baby, we're actually only racing at 20:00 tonight so i will see what happens. Yea and sorry Slicker i think that i may have read that last post wrong to. My bad.

Ditto...

Madmazz116
16-02-2016, 16:46
i just had a look at downdetector.com and the difference betwen PSN faults reported and Xbox live over the last 24 hours is just staggering!

Madmazz116
16-02-2016, 16:53
Before all these disconnects started to happen on my streams I noticed there was a a lot more rubber banding.. I like every one else spent a lot of money on this game and bought every dlc just to play online

whats rubber banding?

Konan
16-02-2016, 16:59
whats rubber banding?

I think it's when you got a comfortable lead and the next moment the following car is right behind you...as if it is attached to you with a rubber band...

Madmazz116
16-02-2016, 17:01
I think it's when you got a comfortable lead and the next moment the following car is right behind you...as if it is attached to you with a rubber band...

so a bit like lag?...because I had a couple of times when the car behind suddenly shot in front of me ..like warped

i-am-the-stig
16-02-2016, 17:04
whats rubber banding?

Rubber banding is the cars your racing against are going all over the track in front of you but there not on there race.. It's to do with high latency

Robsharples
16-02-2016, 17:12
Like i previously mentioned our community are very strict on connections and the only time this rubber banding would happen is when someone with a terrible connection would join.. Hence that person wouldn't race so i can't say that i noticed this tbh.

bradleyland
16-02-2016, 17:35
I don't think there's such a drama as the title suggests. You're talking about multiplayer only, not the game as a whole. Plenty of people enjoying the game offline. Would be nice to reflect that in the thread's title.


I understand that from your point of view the online disconnects are game-killing, but for most other PS4 players it's not because they race offline only.

Remco, with all due respect, I would like to ask you to please consider changing the tone of your responses to problems regarding disconnects. Your first two replies here don't address the problem. All they do is accuse the poster of being overly-dramatic and attempt to subvert the topic. You have to consider that for people who are attempting to run a league on the PS platform, this problem is terminal. You simply cannot run a league with disconnect issues like PS users are experiencing. Pointing out that people play the game offline and enjoy it is side-stepping the discussion, and borders on insulting to those who are experiencing these frustrations and are genuinely trying to reach a solution.

To prove this, let's say we accept your remarks that plenty of people enjoy the game offline. How does that affect Rob's problem? What outcome or action should we arrive at? Are those who are experiencing disconnect issues supposed to accept that as consolation and stop mentioning their disconnect issues? That seems to be what is implied, and I don't think that's fair. Please consider that :)


It has already been stated by the devs that they are looking into the issue, both on the game side and on the PSN side.

This is a sensible, factual reply, and frankly, should have been the first thing you said. As a moderator, you represent the forum, which means you must take the high ground.

I have worked in technology for 18 years. I've done software development for the last 16. I'm well acquainted with the difficulty in performing root cause analysis for symptoms with widely varied underlying causes. The volume and variety of complaints (especially from leagues) is really quite alarming. SMS must acknowledge that, at some point, the reasons why stop mattering. As the developer of a piece of software, it is not your end-users' fault that the problem is hard, or that one of your platform partner is falling on their face. You have to step up, take responsibility, and deliver (or fail).

If SMS wants to get ahead of this problem, they need to jump in here, and quickly, because the PS disconnect issue is bleeding over in to sentiment about the game in general; including places where there may not be an issue.

Many games collect & report network issues/disconnect information. This information should be analyzed, and the analysis shared with the community. Are there are disproportionately large number of disconnects on a specific platform? In a specific region? For a particular network connection type? If the data show that there is nothing anomalous happening, then that information can be used to empirically shut down threads like this. Or maybe those details can't be shared because of legal considerations. At a minimum, SMS should share their awareness level of the disconnect issue in a very direct, public way (not through volunteers).

Dripping and dropping information on the forum through volunteer moderators is, IMO, a very irresponsible method of handling public relations. I say this without an ounce of frustration or anger, because I am one of the many who only enjoy ProjectCARS offline. I don't even have a PSN subscription. I'm simply an observer, sitting on the sidelines watching this unravel. I do care about the game though, and I hate to see unwarranted calamity unfold. SMS may not be able to quickly resolve the disconnect issue, but their method of engagement with the community is completely within their control.

Boskapongen
16-02-2016, 17:35
We are racing now, and "knock on wood" its works alot better now. PING-bars are all green och high yellow, before ALL was RED....

Umer Ahmad
16-02-2016, 17:49
<snip> I'm simply an observer, sitting on the sidelines watching this unravel. I do care about the game though, and I hate to see unwarranted calamity unfold. SMS may not be able to quickly resolve the disconnect issue, but their method of engagement with the community is completely within their control.

Official Response from yesterday (http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?44799-Continuous-Disconnects-from-MP&p=1234318#post1234318)

Haiden
16-02-2016, 17:54
Remco, with all due respect, I would like to ask you to please consider changing the tone of your responses to problems regarding disconnects. Your first two replies here don't address the problem. All they do is accuse the poster of being overly-dramatic and attempt to subvert the topic. You have to consider that for people who are attempting to run a league on the PS platform, this problem is terminal.

The title is a bit over dramatic, though.

Sankyo
16-02-2016, 18:02
Remco, with all due respect, I would like to ask you to please consider changing the tone of your responses to problems regarding disconnects. Your first two replies here don't address the problem. All they do is accuse the poster of being overly-dramatic and attempt to subvert the topic. You have to consider that for people who are attempting to run a league on the PS platform, this problem is terminal. You simply cannot run a league with disconnect issues like PS users are experiencing. Pointing out that people play the game offline and enjoy it is side-stepping the discussion, and borders on insulting to those who are experiencing these frustrations and are genuinely trying to reach a solution.

To prove this, let's say we accept your remarks that plenty of people enjoy the game offline. How does that affect Rob's problem? What outcome or action should we arrive at? Are those who are experiencing disconnect issues supposed to accept that as consolation and stop mentioning their disconnect issues? That seems to be what is implied, and I don't think that's fair. Please consider that :)
I think you're reading too much negativity in my postings, or maybe I didn't write it down well enough (language barrier and all that). There was no intent from my side to belittle the OP or subvert the topic, only to demarcate the issue to what it's really about: the MP disconnects issue.

I know that for people who do leagues and mostly or only race online, it's game-killing. That's what I said in the first quote. However, the thread title implies that the current MP problems is the end of pCARS on PS4 for all players. And that's simply not true.




This is a sensible, factual reply, and frankly, should have been the first thing you said. As a moderator, you represent the forum, which means you must take the high ground.
I agree with you mostly, but I'll just add that the "the devs are looking into it" message has been stated on this forum many times before already. So especially for those complaining about the state of MP on a daily basis, it's not the first time they see it.


I have worked in technology for 18 years. I've done software development for the last 16. I'm well acquainted with the difficulty in performing root cause analysis for symptoms with widely varied underlying causes. The volume and variety of complaints (especially from leagues) is really quite alarming. SMS must acknowledge that, at some point, the reasons why stop mattering. As the developer of a piece of software, it is not your end-users' fault that the problem is hard, or that one of your platform partner is falling on their face. You have to step up, take responsibility, and deliver (or fail).

If SMS wants to get ahead of this problem, they need to jump in here, and quickly, because the PS disconnect issue is bleeding over in to sentiment about the game in general; including places where there may not be an issue.

Many games collect & report network issues/disconnect information. This information should be analyzed, and the analysis shared with the community. Are there are disproportionately large number of disconnects on a specific platform? In a specific region? For a particular network connection type? If the data show that there is nothing anomalous happening, then that information can be used to empirically shut down threads like this. Or maybe those details can't be shared because of legal considerations. At a minimum, SMS should share their awareness level of the disconnect issue in a very direct, public way (not through volunteers).

Dripping and dropping information on the forum through volunteer moderators is, IMO, a very irresponsible method of handling public relations. I say this without an ounce of frustration or anger, because I am one of the many who only enjoy ProjectCARS offline. I don't even have a PSN subscription. I'm simply an observer, sitting on the sidelines watching this unravel. I do care about the game though, and I hate to see unwarranted calamity unfold. SMS may not be able to quickly resolve the disconnect issue, but their method of engagement with the community is completely within their control.
What you're saying makes perfect sense. Reality is a bit tougher, unfortunately. SMS isn't big enough to do what you're (rightfully) asking for, so we need to do with the volunteer effort for the time being. The only slight comfort may be that at least I am in direct contact with the devs so it's not just guesswork what we're stating here.

That also means that I know how small SMS is, and what the impact is on problem solving capacity and public relations.

Given the very valid points you raised, I will talk to the devs about this and see if there's anything that can be improved, especially on the root cause analysis part and using the user data available.

Robsharples
16-02-2016, 18:13
I'm sorry and im not sorry for naming this thread like i did but it was my intention to get the attention so to speak. What we don't want in this thread is another pointless argument breaking out so that another unnecessary thread gets created.

We all just want to race so like i said earlier scrub any leagues for now, let the sms ninja's do some investigation and hopefully they will get back to us with some findings soon.

Robsharples
16-02-2016, 18:15
We're going to try one more time tonight at 20:00 and if we still get mass DC then we to will just be running casual fun race's for however long it takes.

bradleyland
16-02-2016, 18:17
Official Response from yesterday (http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?44799-Continuous-Disconnects-from-MP&p=1234318#post1234318)

That is certainly useful, but from a visibility perspective, it's on page 15 of a 20 page thread. I'm all for "use the search function", but that would be a very difficult find for anyone; even advanced forum users. IMO, this issue has escalated to a point that would be well served by a response that is easily located.

i-am-the-stig
16-02-2016, 18:17
I'm going to do my stream to night in public lobby's and see how it goes

Robsharples
16-02-2016, 18:25
If it is indeed a very small team behind this game/sim then first off.. Thank You and hats off gentlemen and ladies of course if there are any.
We want this small team to be able to come here and engage with us don't we? Well after thinking about this we need to give them a break guys, look what they've made and i know im the 1st person to complain about wheel bugs etc but without this DC problem it's fantastic. Please don't leave us hanging for to long though. One way or the other i want to play this game so if it turns out to 100% psn then it may be time to join the PC fan boys :)

Umer Ahmad
16-02-2016, 18:38
Hit the blue "SMS Posts" link up top.....that's the whole team (and it was probably a bit smaller than that for the majority of the project 2011-2015, they've added some people since May2015 release.)

Robsharples
16-02-2016, 18:47
122 people?? No way seriously lol im so sorry and take back every negative comment ive ever written on here as Mustard or well whoever. That is crazy, pretty amazing really. Just remember though it only takes one of them to give us that answer. ;)

Konan
16-02-2016, 18:50
122 people?? No way seriously lol im so sorry and take back every negative comment ive ever written on here as Mustard or well whoever. That is crazy, pretty amazing really. Just remember though it only takes one of them to give us that answer. ;)

Knowing this,can you imagine what Pcars2 will look like?
"The only way is up" is an appropriate statement imho...

Boskapongen
16-02-2016, 18:52
Someting has definitely improved this evening. I drove some races 15:00-16:00CET disconnect all the time. Now we have played since 18:00CET (2 hours and counting) and all good so far. 6-12 people in public lobby.

Umer Ahmad
16-02-2016, 18:56
Yeah, basically this game was made by 100 people and a few (5?) million bucks. That's some incredible efficiency if you ask me.

Turn10 (Forza) and PolophonyDigital (Gran Turismo) are probably 3x-5x the manpower and budget of SMS (and only deliver on their specific platform!) -- Ian knows better that kind of financial information.

Robsharples
16-02-2016, 18:58
Knowing this,can you imagine what Pcars2 will look like?
"The only way is up" is an appropriate statement imho...

Pcars 2 will be the game of choice im 200% convinced of that, what platform? Well im genuinely hoping it's going to be ps4. PC vs PS4 vs Xbox now that's what id like to see.

i-am-the-stig
16-02-2016, 18:58
Yeah, basically this game was made by 100 people and a few (5?) million bucks. That's some incredible efficiency if you ask me.

Turn10 (Forza) and PolophonyDigital (Gran Turismo) are probably 3x-5x the manpower and budget of SMS (and only deliver on their specific platform!) -- Ian knows better that kind of financial information.

But the game wasn't finished as it was stated that's why it was delayed so many times

Robsharples
16-02-2016, 19:04
You can't fault this team for what they've achieved and i suppose it's easy for us point out what they've not, so long as they are aware of the bugs etc and can offer solutions then thats fine by me. I can also be patient as im sure this is no fun for them either atm.

Sankyo
16-02-2016, 19:12
Someting has definitely improved this evening. I drove some races 15:00-16:00CET disconnect all the time. Now we have played since 18:00CET (2 hours and counting) and all good so far. 6-12 people in public lobby.

That must have been the ultra-secret MP stability fix patch that was installed at 17:00CET. I mean, oh, how interesting!

On a serious note, that's a positive sound, but it also shows how dependent the game is on PSN stability.

Thanks for persevering guys!

VR-42
16-02-2016, 19:20
I have played this game for more than 560 hours now and only 3.8 hrs NOT multiplayer.

bradleyland
16-02-2016, 19:22
I think you're reading too much negativity in my postings, or maybe I didn't write it down well enough (language barrier and all that). There was no intent from my side to belittle the OP or subvert the topic, only to demarcate the issue to what it's really about: the MP disconnects issue.

I know that for people who do leagues and mostly or only race online, it's game-killing. That's what I said in the first quote. However, the thread title implies that the current MP problems is the end of pCARS on PS4 for all players. And that's simply not true.

This gets meta very quickly, but I wouldn't say you were confronting anyone or being unreasonable. It's just a matter of tone. In a conversation where one person is deeply invested (emotionally), and the other is calmly rational, the latter bears the responsibility of taking great care with tone. Like, I said, this gets very nit-picky, but I think it's worthwhile. I've read a lot of your posts, and you're obviously a respectful, caring person. I don't want that to be confused. I just think it's important to be very careful about answering someone's concerns with tangential points. Take the following (rather contrived) example:

Customer: Waiter, there's a fly in my soup. This is unacceptable.

Waiter: Yes, but your water is fine, and many other customers are enjoying their meals.

Waiter: I'll bring you a new soup right away.

Customer: :confused:

The waiter didn't need to point out that the customer's water was fine, or that other customers were enjoying their meals. In this circumstance, the customer ultimately gets a fly-free soup, but they still feel jilted because the waiter's initial response addressed a point that wasn't important to them. People react in a variety of ways in these situations. The more emotionally invested they are in the problem, the greater the likelihood they'll react negatively. More importantly, the waiter gains nothing by making his points.


I agree with you mostly, but I'll just add that the "the devs are looking into it" message has been stated on this forum many times before already. So especially for those complaining about the state of MP on a daily basis, it's not the first time they see it.


What you're saying makes perfect sense. Reality is a bit tougher, unfortunately. SMS isn't big enough to do what you're (rightfully) asking for, so we need to do with the volunteer effort for the time being. The only slight comfort may be that at least I am in direct contact with the devs so it's not just guesswork what we're stating here.

That also means that I know how small SMS is, and what the impact is on problem solving capacity and public relations.

Given the very valid points you raised, I will talk to the devs about this and see if there's anything that can be improved, especially on the root cause analysis part and using the user data available.

I appreciate your efforts. Especially given that you're a volunteer here. Internet forum moderation is often a thankless job, and I really do appreciate what you guys do.

Boskapongen
16-02-2016, 19:25
That must have been the ultra-secret MP stability fix patch that was installed at 17:00CET. I mean, oh, how interesting!

On a serious note, that's a positive sound, but it also shows how dependent the game is on PSN stability.

Thanks for persevering guys!


Donīt be rude here, no need. I am just trying help the devs and users to give you all important information, so MAYBE you can see if something happened at that time.

Sankyo
16-02-2016, 19:31
Donīt be rude here, no need. I am just trying help the devs and users to give you all important information, so MAYBE you can see if something happened at that time.
Wasn't meant to be rude at all, only light-hearted. I did forget to put in a smiley I see now :o

Anyway, as stated, much appreciated. If you experience disconnects again, maybe collecting ISP/Routers/NAT Type/Firewalls info from your group might help the devs to try and find something common.

Robsharples
16-02-2016, 20:09
So far so good. We still have all our drivers, very interesting indeed.

maxx69
16-02-2016, 20:15
I love this game on PS4 , combined with my T300rs and my t3PA pedals , it's blown me away.
Unfortunately the PCARS crew races on our race forum are nonexistent now from the disappointment of all the DC's .
The reaction of quite a lot of the guys is they won't be buying PCARS2 and instead will concentrate on GT and AC .
I don't seem to have many issues with DC's online myself but our races are so often ruined by them .
When people spend hours of precious time practicing for a race only to get a DC ( a lot of the time it's 1/3 of the grid) it's so disheartening.
The game is stunning but honestly I don't see it ever playing properly.
I just hope for SMS that AC and GT are crap or 'unfortunately' PCARS 2 will loose a fair amount of customers on console.
So many race events have been suspended because of problems it's gutting.
I don't race offline so it's really hit my enjoyment.
All respect to you guys and the devs ...don't take this the wrong way ....I love the game and can't wait for pcars2 , but fear our console events and members will be racing different games .
I'm not having a pop , just saying what's happening with our race community.

Liquid7394
16-02-2016, 20:17
Yeah, basically this game was made by 100 people and a few (5?) million bucks. That's some incredible efficiency if you ask me.

Turn10 (Forza) and PolophonyDigital (Gran Turismo) are probably 3x-5x the manpower and budget of SMS (and only deliver on their specific platform!) -- Ian knows better that kind of financial information.
PD have about 140 employees apparently.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyphony_Digital
https://translate.google.co.uk/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.polyphony.co.jp%2F&edit-text=&act=url

Haiden
16-02-2016, 20:35
When people spend hours of precious time practicing for a race only to get a DC ( a lot of the time it's 1/3 of the grid) it's so disheartening.
The game is stunning but honestly I don't see it ever playing properly.
I just hope for SMS that AC and GT are crap or 'unfortunately' PCARS 2 will loose a fair amount of customers on console.


I agree that it's probably as good as it's going to get--maybe a few more fixes, but there will always be some issues. And, unfortunately, those issues will impede league play.

That being said, I don't think PCars2's success will be made or broken by PCars1, only the initial sales. If PCars2 turns out to be stable and fairly bug-free at release, especially MP, then people will come back to it. Gamers are quick to claim they're writing a franchise off, only to quietly come back when the next iteration turns out to be a substantial improvement. Assuming PCars2 is released in good condition, the only thing that will keep console racers away is if GT and/or AC turns out to be the better game. Because, if you're into sim-racing, why would you forgo the best experience just to maintain a grudge?

maxx69
16-02-2016, 20:47
I agree that it's probably as good as it's going to get--maybe a few more fixes, but there will always be some issues. And, unfortunately, those issues will impede league play.

That being said, I don't think PCars2's success will be made or broken by PCars1, only the initial sales. If PCars2 turns out to be stable and fairly bug-free at release, especially MP, then people will come back to it. Gamers are quick to claim they're writing a franchise off, only to quietly come back when the next iteration turns out to be a substantial improvement. Assuming PCars2 is released in good condition, the only thing that will keep console racers away is if GT and/or AC turns out to be the better game. Because, if you're into sim-racing, why would you forgo the best experience just to maintain a grudge?

Totally agree with you there . I just hope lessons are learned with the mishaps of PCars1 ( which I'm sure they will be )
People who say SMS don't care are being a little dramatic, as if they didn't care, they wouldn't have this forum for people to voice issues.
I'm sure they do everything in there power to fix the problems, I mean , at the end of the day it's a business and satisfied customers is what they want.

Robsharples
16-02-2016, 20:51
Just a quick update we ran the 1St 40 min race and not one DC.. Going to get the full room to now reset their ps4 and set up for race 2. This is very curious indeed because Sunday it was impossible. We have leagues running every night from 20:00 so it's going to be interesting to see what happens as the week progresses.

Robsharples
16-02-2016, 21:51
Ok I'm now convinced it's something with the ps4 because we've just run x2 40 minute league races, full rooms and NO DC nothing. Absolutely perfect guys. I will keep an eye on it this week but atm yea np. The only thing that we did differently tonight is after the first race we got everyone to restart their PS4s.

So if it turns out to be Sony where does that leave us and another thing thats puzzling me is that you would of thought Xmas would have been worse than February surely.

Slicker_VR
16-02-2016, 22:00
I don't think it's funny calling offline players "idiots" even if you put a smiley behind it....
A lot of people could take this as offensive and there was no call for that.
Many of "us idiots" play offline for various reasons and not only because whe don't want to...
Speaking for myself,I've heard that a lot of the "idiots" play online so i stay away (only one of the reasons though)
No offence....

Edit: after all whe're all here for the same thing:getting answers/help...or helping others.

i meant the edit to be understood as ...because of the issues (edit) and the idiots

Slicker_VR
16-02-2016, 22:02
I think he meant the 'Idiots' online, as in the wrekers etc.... :D

i did indeed, thank you

Invincible
16-02-2016, 22:13
Ok I'm now convinced it's something with the ps4 because we've just run x2 40 minute league races, full rooms and NO DC nothing. Absolutely perfect guys. I will keep an eye on it this week but atm yea np. The only thing that we did differently tonight is after the first race we got everyone to restart their PS4s.

So if it turns out to be Sony where does that leave us and another thing thats puzzling me is that you would of thought Xmas would have been worse than February surely.

As bad as those problems are, I'm glad that they were on Sony's side and not on SMS's.

Robsharples
16-02-2016, 22:15
I think that i may owe the sms team and one of the mods in particular an apology. I don't see how this could be at your end if it's working perfectly now. Anyway like i said i will keep you guys up to date and list the trouble shooting tips we do every night to make sure that everyone on the ps4 can enjoy this game/sim as problem free as possible.

Umer Ahmad
16-02-2016, 23:14
Keep us updated, glad to hear some stability today. Fingers crossed we make it like this through the weekend

ingrobny
17-02-2016, 00:32
I'm a little bit upset by reading this, why on earth should Prosject Cars not be availiable on PS4 because of online gamers struggels with problems? I can understand the frustration, but it's not fair for us who only plays the career and really appreciate the offline content.
It's like i don't want to buy Project Cars because it has a online feature, luckily Project Cars is for offline AND online gamers.

Thats all i have to say about this.

Robsharples
17-02-2016, 02:30
Nobody mentioned anything about it not being available on the ps4? I posted this yesterday morning because of all the reports of the DC's the last 10 days or so. Read the full conversation and please calm down atm everything seems fine.
Last night we ran both our rooms without a hitch so there's quite possible that there may be a DC problem towards the end of the week or it may have just been a temporary glitch in the matrix. Either way I'm not ars#d just so long as it's OK this weekend.

PS4 servers may be to blame but we shall see.

LukeC
17-02-2016, 04:09
Nobody mentioned anything about it not being available on the ps4? I posted this yesterday morning because of all the reports of the DC's the last 10 days or so. Read the full conversation and please calm down atm everything seems fine.
Last night we ran both our rooms without a hitch so there's quite possible that there may be a DC problem towards the end of the week or it may have just been a temporary glitch in the matrix. Either way I'm not ars#d just so long as it's OK this weekend.

PS4 servers may be to blame but we shall see.

A lot of people do love their Project cars and the handline does tend very much towards the, shall we say, sensationalist?

wyldanimal
17-02-2016, 05:48
http://map.norsecorp.com/#/

Doesn't look like Attacks in general are higher than normal...
but My Servers at work, in the past two weeks, have been hit about %100 higher what I normally get...

Konan
17-02-2016, 05:48
i meant the edit to be understood as ...because of the issues (edit) and the idiots

I know,i already apologised (sort of) anyway,sorry i misunderstood your comment...

the-les
17-02-2016, 06:23
Another night of wheel bugs and disconnections for me. As far as I'm concerned I've been sold a faulty and misleading product and would appreciate my money back.

MrSulu
17-02-2016, 07:58
Where is the proof it was at Sony's end? Has that been established?

There was a thread with constructive arguments for both sides, which got locked and now the Mods are using their own theory as fact (It was PSN and nothing to do with SMS' end), and has effectively silenced anyone who thought otherwise. Also a patch was rolled out by SMS in this time and suddenly everything is better and no one bats an eyelid.

2nd hand and far from conclusive information dragged off the internet then provided by people who don't even own PS4's is now being used as official fact on here over those who actually own PS4's and could test it for themselves. I may be wrong I admit that, but so could you.

Overprotective and overzealous moderation will only serve to hurt you in the long run.

Androphonomania
17-02-2016, 08:52
Mrsulu, just read and do not ignore facts. Your Post is just full of ignorance.
SMS even state that they look into it.

The ps4 players and their reports are the argument that it cant be project cars. That there is a fundamental issue with the psn since 2/3 weeks. The patch had nothing to do with it.

Sony is just silence. But that is how big companies act. Blame them and their communication.

Madmazz116
17-02-2016, 09:00
So far so good. We still have all our drivers, very interesting indeed.

Rob what are your MTU settings?

MrSulu
17-02-2016, 09:03
Mrsulu, just read and do not ignore facts. Your Post is just full of ignorance.
SMS even state that they look into it.

The ps4 players and their reports are the argument that it cant be project cars. That there is a fundamental issue with the psn since 2/3 weeks. The patch had nothing to do with it.

Sony is just silence. But that is how big companies act. Blame them and their communication.

Your final sentence shows bias, remove the tin foil hat before labelling someone else ignorant.

Saying there is no definitive proof and that it could be at Sony OR SMS' end is ignorance?

Not assigning blame before an official statement for the cause is issued by either party is ignorance?

I have ignored no facts, I have seen testimony from both sides of the argument and see there is insufficient evidence to say 100% who's end the fault is at.

I do not wish to bitch and moan as these kind of problems are unavoidable, nor will I kick off on whoevers end the issue is with.

I am one of the very few here not jumping to conclusions yet I am the ignorant one?

Rotters91
17-02-2016, 09:50
Disconnects aren't the only problem and you know that. Offline is beset with invisible walls to name but one. People are disenchanted with the game because the development team either don't want to fix the problems or know they can't and don't have the decency to tell us. Yet they expect the gaming community to cough up month after month for new tracks and cars. The online gaming community will not stand for this much longer and will desert for other games. Do SMS care? Who knows but I won't by another title from them unless these issues are sorted and proven to be fixed long term.

ps. to balance the online/offline perspective, last week I set up an online room to practice for an endurance race. After 3 disconnects I gave up and continued in an offline practice session. 2 invisible walls later I'd had enough. 90 minutes of trying to practice and only 4 or 5 full laps completed. Nobody can tell me there aren't issues with the game online or offline.

NeonFlux
17-02-2016, 09:51
Mrsulu, just read and do not ignore facts. Your Post is just full of ignorance.
SMS even state that they look into it.

The ps4 players and their reports are the argument that it cant be project cars. That there is a fundamental issue with the psn since 2/3 weeks. The patch had nothing to do with it.

Sony is just silence. But that is how big companies act. Blame them and their communication.

We're experiencing the same kind of disconnection issues on xbox and from what I've read people on the PC also have issues.... this isn't platform specific which would suggest to me that it is a problem with the game.

Last night me a couple of friends starting playing at around 9pm.... thanks to disconnects and various other problems, by 11pm we'd managed to complete two 15 minute qualifying sessions and one and half laps of a race..... just over half an hours racing with an hour and a half faffing about, restarting xboxes etc etc. By 11.15pm we'd given up and gone to play other games :(

VR-42
17-02-2016, 09:58
I have over 650 hours on this game and I an just about done with all the problems, some are sms some may be sony but the end result is you cant race online atm.
I am a full time carer and this game racing with VRroom gives me much needed respite from what are horible days.
This much needed respite and having friends away from my caring duties has been ruined, My nights are just frustrating, I dont know where to turn,
Oh well its back to the doctor to get back on the drugs to get me through the day, Pcars was the drug of choice for me but its just not working any more

SpeedFreakDTM
17-02-2016, 09:59
My friend made a clip of it happening to him on Xbox.

http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/RTA%20nOsKiLLs/video/14858222

Its happened to me lots of times but ive never bothered to record a clip. No other game I have kicked me back to the main menu mid fight/race/round. It is not xbox live it must be the game itself. It happens to everyone at some point and it just ruins the fun.

Please fix this SMS.

Sankyo
17-02-2016, 10:22
No online game is immune to disconnects, if a server burps then you will be affected. Even iRacing that is built around online racing and has its own servers has people disconnect or lag. The only thing the devs can do is look into the disconnects and try to minimize the game's sensitivity to it.

the-les
17-02-2016, 10:25
I even got disconnected from a time trial lastnight. Refund me please.

Sankyo
17-02-2016, 10:27
I even got disconnected from a time trial lastnight. Refund me please.
Refunds are not done by SMS, but by the vendor of the game.

Biddrace
17-02-2016, 10:27
My friend made a clip of it happening to him on Xbox.

http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/RTA%20nOsKiLLs/video/14858222

Its happened to me lots of times but ive never bothered to record a clip. No other game I have kicked me back to the main menu mid fight/race/round. It is not xbox live it must be the game itself. It happens to everyone at some point and it just ruins the fun.

Please fix this SMS.

ahahaha , PSN ????
xboxlive also has problems .
how do you not to say clearly that there is a real problem in the game

RichW
17-02-2016, 10:31
Interesting, hope the admin / mods or whatever have seen this... Proof above that dc's are affecting all platforms.

That would suggest that unfortunately it is the game and not the PSN network, unless the xbox network, steam and PSN are all having issues at the same time which I believe to be highly unlikely.

Sankyo
17-02-2016, 10:36
Interesting, hope the admin / mods or whatever have seen this... Proof above that dc's are affecting all platforms.

That would suggest that unfortunately it is the game and not the PSN network, unless the xbox network, steam and PSN are all having issues at the same time which I believe to be highly unlikely.
Every network has occasional problems, so different networks having disconnect issues at the same time doesn't prove anything.

The fact that the PS4 guys suffering from multiple disconnects suddenly, when PSN reports to have solved issues and the game hasn't changed, have problem-free races already shows that it's not just the game. At best, it's a game-network interaction.

Mascot
17-02-2016, 10:43
It could also be individual user router settings..?
The problem is, a lot of these reports are anecdotal with a heavy dose of confirmation bias. They become self-fulfilling prophecies.

In my own experiences, the last two weekends have been atrocious. Last night (a Tuesday) was absolutely fine.

*shrugs*

MrSulu
17-02-2016, 10:52
Every network has occasional problems, so different networks having disconnect issues at the same time doesn't prove anything.

The fact that the PS4 guys suffering from multiple disconnects suddenly, when PSN reports to have solved issues and the game hasn't changed, have problem-free races already shows that it's not just the game. At best, it's a game-network interaction.

While I admire your resolve in repeatedly insisting it's a PSN issue and nothing to do with SMS. Just accept the fact that you could be wrong. I think it's SMS, but I could also be wrong.

Shoving the opinion that it's PSN down everyones throat every time someone has an experience that would suggest otherwise does nobody any favours. Try to stay open minded.

MrSulu
17-02-2016, 10:59
It could also be individual user router settings..?
The problem is, a lot of these reports are anecdotal with a heavy dose of confirmation bias. They become self-fulfilling prophecies.

In my own experiences, the last two weekends have been atrocious. Last night (a Tuesday) was absolutely fine.

*shrugs* I agree completely it is all anecdotal. But for everyones router settings going from fine to suddenly wrong, all from different suppliers in different countries all at the same time in the same room and every other room to boot? That's a bit of a stretch.

Konan
17-02-2016, 11:01
While I admire your resolve in repeatedly insisting it's a PSN issue and nothing to do with SMS. Just accept the fact that you could be wrong. I think it's SMS, but I could also be wrong.

Shoving the opinion that it's PSN down everyones throat every time someone has an experience that would suggest otherwise does nobody any favours. Try to stay open minded.

But he doesn't insist it's a Psn issue does he?
He's just saying it isn't necessarily an SMS issue....
Small nuance with a big difference...

MrSulu
17-02-2016, 11:04
But he doesn't insist it's a Psn issue does he?
He's just saying it isn't necessarily an SMS issue....
Small nuance with a big difference...

I know I didn't mean that to Remco specifically. Rather to anyone who has decided for themselves that it's one way or the other, we simply do not know.

Mascot
17-02-2016, 11:15
I agree completely it is all anecdotal. But for everyones router settings going from fine to suddenly wrong, all from different suppliers in different countries all at the same time in the same room and every other room to boot? That's a bit of a stretch.

Not 'everybody' is necessarily experiencing problems though. The only issues we know about are from people who have experienced the problem, and from that group the ones who have the means or inclination to complain about it. This group is more likely to be vocal about it. People like complaining when something goes wrong, it's human nature. :)

We don't actually have any facts or data.

ingrobny
17-02-2016, 11:23
Nobody mentioned anything about it not being available on the ps4? I posted this yesterday morning because of all the reports of the DC's the last 10 days or so. Read the full conversation and please calm down atm everything seems fine.
Last night we ran both our rooms without a hitch so there's quite possible that there may be a DC problem towards the end of the week or it may have just been a temporary glitch in the matrix. Either way I'm not ars#d just so long as it's OK this weekend.

PS4 servers may be to blame but we shall see.

Is this the end of the Pcars online part on PS4 would be a better title for this thread in my opinion.

And trust me i have had my share with online problems when i played Destiny for a year, sometimes it was the game, but mostely it was all kinds of problems between my PS4 and playstation servers and of course most players blamed Bungie and the game itself, me included, Destiny was more stable when i played with fellow norwegians or european citizens, when i joined American servers or Asian servers, all hel# broke loose, lag, disconnect etc.

I don't know if you have tried this already, but try to connect PS4 to your modem or router with cabel when you play online, it can make your connection more stabel.

Madmazz116
17-02-2016, 11:26
ive read loads on here about MTU settings I have tried 1430 / 1460 does anyone know if there is an optimum setting or should I leave it at 1500? or is it a waste of time?

Bealdor
17-02-2016, 11:28
The devs have created a thread to investigate this issue: http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?45096-PS4-SMS-investigation-into-connection-issues

Please leave your feedback according to the OP over there, but only if you have experienced the issue yourself. Thanks.

Mascot
17-02-2016, 11:29
Investigation thread:

http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?45096-PS4-SMS-investigation-into-connection-issues

Edit: Bealdored in the pods like a ginger stepchild. Ouch!

MrSulu
17-02-2016, 11:33
Excelent thanks for the link.

the-les
17-02-2016, 11:47
Refunds are not done by SMS, but by the vendor of the game.

The vendor does not refund after 28 day, as there is no fault with the physical product. However responsibility no lies with the company who maintain the product through updates and patches. As the product was not broken when purchased and now is I believe it is the responsibility of sms to offer a refund as it is sms who I will be holding responsible for the continued failure of said product and un-necessary wear and tear to my hardware.

Sankyo
17-02-2016, 11:59
The vendor does not refund after 28 day, as there is no fault with the physical product. However responsibility no lies with the company who maintain the product through updates and patches. As the product was not broken when purchased and now is I believe it is the responsibility of sms to offer a refund as it is sms who I will be holding responsible for the continued failure of said product and un-necessary wear and tear to my hardware.
The product is not broken and 'unnecessary wear and tear' to your hardware is just an unbased statement that no-one can do anything with.

Madmazz116
17-02-2016, 12:22
The vendor does not refund after 28 day, as there is no fault with the physical product. However responsibility no lies with the company who maintain the product through updates and patches. As the product was not broken when purchased and now is I believe it is the responsibility of sms to offer a refund as it is sms who I will be holding responsible for the continued failure of said product and un-necessary wear and tear to my hardware.

rofl....

Umer Ahmad
17-02-2016, 12:24
I know I didn't mean that to Remco specifically. Rather to anyone who has decided for themselves that it's one way or the other, we simply do not know.

What we do know is that MANY (not all!) game are also affected by these PSN Online outages (http://downdetector.com/status/playstation-network), to name some I saw recently reported by PS4/PSN players:
1. Darksouls 2
2. Call of Duty
3. Battlefront
4. Payday - Crimewave Edition
5. Metal Gear Solid

So for anyone to say this is "SMS problem only with high probability" absolutely goes against the evidence. I see A LOT of other games being affected by PSN online network outages BESIDES PROJECT CARS.

So how do we now reconcile this evidence? Perhaps ALL THESE GAMES have bad programmers and bugs in their network/online coding? Or maybe there is a single point of failure: PSN (which has shown other signs of weakness recently! -- netflix, wallet problems, simply signing on even)

Again, I see more PSN frustrations *today* WHICH HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH PROJECT CARS....you cannot simply ignore these reports that have been going for many days now:

227689

I see some improvement in this picture compared to yesterday (http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?45055-Project-CARS-PS4-Patch-9-0-Release-Notes&p=1235115#post1235115), let's hope it continues:
227690

the-les
17-02-2016, 12:38
The product is not broken and 'unnecessary wear and tear' to your hardware is just an unbased statement that no-one can do anything with.

The product is broken otherwise there would be no complaints on this forum. It is faulty and does not do what it is advertised as doing. The wear and tear on my hardware is a statement made due to the increasing number of times my wheel has had either a clipping bug, or slams itself to the left under full power when the game crashes. Your product is faulty and does not work to its expectations. I would like a refund.

Umer Ahmad
17-02-2016, 12:39
The product is broken otherwise there would be no complaints on this forum. It is faulty and does not do what it is advertised as doing. The wear and tear on my hardware is a statement made due to the increasing number of times my wheel has had either a clipping bug, or slams itself to the left under full power when the game crashes. Your product is faulty and does not work to its expectations. I would like a refund.

No refunds possible here. Sorry.

the-les
17-02-2016, 12:52
No refunds possible here. Sorry.

Ok I shall make enquiries to the ombudsman.

could_do_better
17-02-2016, 12:54
@Bruno I've not got a PS4 and I'm definitely no networking expert, but I did read some posts suggesting reducing MTU from 1500 in the PS settings mitigates the problems too so this is worth considering.

Liquid7394
17-02-2016, 13:05
So you believe a bunch random people saying PSN is down etc. but you don't believe a bunch of random people telling you PSN is fine? Right.

Gasman888
17-02-2016, 13:58
I don't quite understand how the mods can insist the problem is with psn when these problems are being reported on PC, Xbox and PS4 ? Also if I'm in a party chat on ps4 when I get dc'd I remain in the chat so I'm still connected to psn but the game has returned to menu, at no point do I lose connection to psn, so theoretically as I understand it I'm not disconnecting but the game is, therefore would suggest the problem lies in the game, doesn't it ?

Sankyo
17-02-2016, 14:02
I don't quite understand how the mods can insist the problem is with psn when these problems are being reported on PC, Xbox and PS4 ? Also if I'm in a party chat on ps4 when I get dc'd I remain in the chat so I'm still connected to psn but the game has returned to menu, at no point do I lose connection to psn, so theoretically as I understand it I'm not disconnecting but the game is, therefore would suggest the problem lies in the game, doesn't it ?
No that doesn't work like that. A connection problem is not the same as being disconnected. And as stated before, any network has occasional issues and instabilities. The second factor in the story is then how sensitive a game is to such instabilities.

vahagn_hayk
17-02-2016, 14:10
as many devs will say, consoles is nice to have and nice addition, but the real place to dev games and advance is on the PC, as simple as that. consoles will never be and will never work the way games runon PC, ergo many companies moving titles to PC and re-thinking consoles. (consoles market of its own,good market BUT hardware limits many many things and having to deal with M$ and $ony!)

many issues with DC...very simple solution, move to a PC. (also whole new book of problems with windows ;)!)

Gasman888
17-02-2016, 14:32
I do own a gaming pc but prefer the ps4 as it seems a more level playing field, I.e everyone has the same hardware etc, on the psn side being the issue, I have played pcars nearly everyday since release and experienced 3 maybe 4 dc's in all that time, yet in the last 3-4 weeks it's nearly impossible to stay in a lobby on pcars and it seems the same problem exists on pc and Xbox over a similar period. Therefore, would it not be more likely to be a problem with pcars than psn, Windows and steam all at the same time? I'm not trying to bash pcars here as I love it, but merely point out the facts as they appear to be and help find a solution.

Sankyo
17-02-2016, 14:39
I do own a gaming pc but prefer the ps4 as it seems a more level playing field, I.e everyone has the same hardware etc, on the psn side being the issue, I have played pcars nearly everyday since release and experienced 3 maybe 4 dc's in all that time, yet in the last 3-4 weeks it's nearly impossible to stay in a lobby on pcars and it seems the same problem exists on pc and Xbox over a similar period. Therefore, would it not be more likely to be a problem with pcars than psn, Windows and steam all at the same time? I'm not trying to bash pcars here as I love it, but merely point out the facts as they appear to be and help find a solution.
But opposed to that we got reports yesterday that people who had had constant DCs recently suddenly were able to race hours on end without DCs. That does not compute with the game being to blame, or at least not only the game.

Umer Ahmad
17-02-2016, 15:13
So you believe a bunch random people saying PSN is down etc. but you don't believe a bunch of random people telling you PSN is fine? Right.

So we know PSN is NOT 100% "FINE", that is all we can say.

Therefore PSN instability MUST continue to be 1 of the possible root causes. PSN instability has NOT be eliminated from the possible list of sources of online problems with Project CARS && OTHER GAMES. (see the 5 above I listed -- I counted 9 so far in the past 48 hours including the big ones CoD, Battlefield & FIFA)

For anyone to say "it cannot be a PSN problem", they are simply discrediting themselves. That claim is unjustifiable and I have provided plenty of evidence about it.

OTHER GAMES ARE DEFINITELY HAVING ISSUES ONLINE PS4/PSN. (regardless if it is affecting you & your few friends...other PSN/PS4 players AROUND THE WORLD are reporting online issues with their games....even the same ones YOU PLAY)

Umer Ahmad
17-02-2016, 15:22
@Bruno I've not got a PS4 and I'm definitely no networking expert, but I did read some posts suggesting reducing MTU from 1500 in the PS settings mitigates the problems too so this is worth considering.

Yes, zee Germans seem to be on to something. Anyone speak Deustch?

227704

Konan
17-02-2016, 16:17
Yes, zee Germans seem to be on to something. Anyone speak Deustch?

227704

Yep...there saying that changing MTU doesn't work...

Umer Ahmad
17-02-2016, 16:29
awesome, thanks.

So how is PS4 behaving or project CARS online today? Anyone tried some races w/ friends today?

edit: XBL hacked/DDOS (https://www.hackread.com/hackers-disrupt-xbox-live-service-with-ddos-attack/) PSN Hacked/DDOS too (http://www.cinemablend.com/games/PlayStation-Network-Outage-Causing-An-Uproar-Get-Details-115137.html)

ermo
17-02-2016, 17:00
Ok I shall make enquiries to the ombudsman.

Why? Isn't it obvious that you need to talk to the store where you bought pCARS to get a refund? You did not buy the product directly from Slightly Mad Studios, did you?

As an analogy, if a shirt you brought in a store does not live up to your expectations, you bring it back to the store and point out the issue and ask for a refund. You don't contact the Bangladesh-based shirt sweatshop and demand that they refund you, do you?

Madmazz116
17-02-2016, 17:06
awesome, thanks.

So how is PS4 behaving or project CARS online today? Anyone tried some races w/ friends today?

edit: XBL hacked/DDOS (https://www.hackread.com/hackers-disrupt-xbox-live-service-with-ddos-attack/) PSN Hacked/DDOS too (http://www.cinemablend.com/games/PlayStation-Network-Outage-Causing-An-Uproar-Get-Details-115137.html)

those people are just *******.

Umer Ahmad
17-02-2016, 17:29
But effective ******s !!

wyldanimal
17-02-2016, 22:28
But effective ******s !!

I had Posted this back a few pages.. It's a LIVE view of the Attacks...

http://map.norsecorp.com/#/

This is most likely why all of the Disconnects...
They Target One Server or Group of Servers..
If you happen to be connected through that Server, You Get Dropped..

Doesn't have to be a PSN wide total shut down..

But they send DDOS attacks to servers and anyone connected, gets dropped..

Today, Currently Australia is under heavy attacks.


We Live in an Effed up World...
10 to 15 Seconds after you Connect you PC to the Internet you are Infected..
As soon as you connect, you PC Shouts to the World, " I'm Here, this is my address !"
within seconds your PC is hammered with Attacks.
if it's not protected, it's too late...

Most of the attacks are to make it part of a larger BOT net.
So on Command, it can join in and send traffic to the Designated Target. a DDoS attack
1000's or 100,000's of computers all sending traffic to the same address.

You "Mr. JOE Computer users" have no Idea any of this is Happening...
It all takes place in the background and you never even know it..

this is from back in 2007, things are much more worse today...
http://www.informationweek.com/how-long-does-it-take-to-catch-a-computer-virus/d/d-id/1051438

Salty Dog
17-02-2016, 23:47
Being a PS4 offline user i rarely have issues with the game and imo the offline experience is great, apart from a bit of glue on the cars here and there theres rarely a drama at all, hope you multiplayers get the problem sorted.

Umer Ahmad
17-02-2016, 23:48
Good God

BK1975
18-02-2016, 01:04
Its obvious it is PSN thats the issue as F1,Pcars and even Gt6 on PS3 are having the same problems.

But I am glad to say we had a league race tonight and we never had any disconnections only one game crash and one pit glitch that I am sure SMS will sort given time.
227755
RaceStation.net

Madmazz116
18-02-2016, 07:20
I had Posted this back a few pages.. It's a LIVE view of the Attacks...

http://map.norsecorp.com/#/

This is most likely why all of the Disconnects...
They Target One Server or Group of Servers..
If you happen to be connected through that Server, You Get Dropped..

Doesn't have to be a PSN wide total shut down..

But they send DDOS attacks to servers and anyone connected, gets dropped..

Today, Currently Australia is under heavy attacks.


We Live in an Effed up World...
10 to 15 Seconds after you Connect you PC to the Internet you are Infected..
As soon as you connect, you PC Shouts to the World, " I'm Here, this is my address !"
within seconds your PC is hammered with Attacks.
if it's not protected, it's too late...

Most of the attacks are to make it part of a larger BOT net.
So on Command, it can join in and send traffic to the Designated Target. a DDoS attack
1000's or 100,000's of computers all sending traffic to the same address.

You "Mr. JOE Computer users" have no Idea any of this is Happening...
It all takes place in the background and you never even know it..

this is from back in 2007, things are much more worse today...
http://www.informationweek.com/how-long-does-it-take-to-catch-a-computer-virus/d/d-id/1051438

looking at that map it seems china is the culprit in most of these attacks

the-les
18-02-2016, 09:22
Why? Isn't it obvious that you need to talk to the store where you bought pCARS to get a refund? You did not buy the product directly from Slightly Mad Studios, did you?

As an analogy, if a shirt you brought in a store does not live up to your expectations, you bring it back to the store and point out the issue and ask for a refund. You don't contact the Bangladesh-based shirt sweatshop and demand that they refund you, do you?

If I buy a shirt as you say and it fits fine (as I'd be able to try it on) I wouldn't have Ralph Lauren come round once a month trying to improve it and ending up with a shirt where the buttons pop off every time I try to wear it.
I think that is a poor analogy on your part. As I said be the physical product that I bought works fine.(also if you read my previous post I can't get a refund after 28days)
So we're now in a no man's land where sms are changing the product on a monthly basis and taking responsibility for the continued upkeep of said product, yet do not want that responsibility when the customer now finds said product to be faulty. This is why I'm questioning the ombudsman as it is a grey area and I'd like to clarify what my consumer rights are. If my ps4 breaks down i have the option to go back to the shop I purchased it from or to contact Sony the manufacturer.

Konan
18-02-2016, 09:43
If I buy a shirt as you say and it fits fine (as I'd be able to try it on) I wouldn't have Ralph Lauren come round once a month trying to improve it and ending up with a shirt where the buttons pop off every time I try to wear it.
I think that is a poor analogy on your part. As I said be the physical product that I bought works fine.(also if you read my previous post I can't get a refund after 28days)
So we're now in a no man's land where sms are changing the product on a monthly basis and taking responsibility for the continued upkeep of said product, yet do not want that responsibility when the customer now finds said product to be faulty. This is why I'm questioning the ombudsman as it is a grey area and I'd like to clarify what my consumer rights are. If my ps4 breaks down i have the option to go back to the shop I purchased it from or to contact Sony the manufacturer.

Can't compare hardware with software either though...hardware always has a warranty... Software only when first used and not working and this within 14 days of purchase...at least in Belgium it's like that.
PCars is still a WIP and therefore to even stand a chance of winning your case,you'll have to wait until an official announcement that the work is done...if it's still faulty after that i wish you the best of luck trying to get your money back...
I don't think it's even worth the effort trying....never heard of a precedent either so....
If the game is that bad to you I'd try swapping it or selling it second hand.
Personally i have no issues with it and will never get rid of my copy....

the-les
18-02-2016, 09:57
Can't compare hardware with software either though...hardware always has a warranty... Software only when first used and not working and this within 14 days of purchase...at least in Belgium it's like that.
PCars is still a WIP and therefore to even stand a chance of winning your case,you'll have to wait until an official announcement that the work is done...if it's still faulty after that i wish you the best of luck trying to get your money back...
I don't think it's even worth the effort trying....never heard of a precedent either so....
If the game is that bad to you I'd try swapping it or selling it second hand.
Personally i have no issues with it and will never get rid of my copy....

Thank you, that's interesting. I wasn't aware that the product was a 'work in progress' if that's what you meant by WIP. Surely that would constitute false and misleading advertising?

Konan
18-02-2016, 10:05
Thank you, that's interesting. I wasn't aware that the product was a 'work in progress' if that's what you meant by WIP. Surely that would constitute false and misleading advertising?

There are still DLC's and patches being produced so to me that says WIP....or at least that the game is being constantly updated and improved....
As for the misleading advertising,can you be more specific?
The features that have been cancelled were cancelled for good reasons and SMS already admitted they were a bit fast in announcing those features before release....

the-les
18-02-2016, 10:46
There are still DLC's and patches being produced so to me that says WIP....or at least that the game is being constantly updated and improved....
As for the misleading advertising,can you be more specific?
The features that have been cancelled were cancelled for good reasons and SMS already admitted they were a bit fast in announcing those features before release....

As in i was under the impression that I was purchasing a complete and finished product 'the ultimate driver journey' I was lead to believe that there would be extra content available every month possibly at extra cost. When I purchased the product on the release date, there were no issues/bugs/glitches that became apparent. However each month I get a sizeable update that I must install to enable me to keep using the features that I expect to use (online multi-player). In these updates modifications are made to the original product and I'm experiencing more and more bugs and glitches, specifically in online use. It is my understanding that the original product had been changed, added to and modified enough that it no longer represents the product I purchased and is now faulty. I can no longer use the product online, I have concerns about damage some of the crashes and bugs as doing to my hardware. For a little perspective I own one ps4 game. So my hardware is exclusively used for this product. The cost for me to setup and start 'the ultimate driver journey' has been in the region of ₤700, much less than a pc I admit, however with the issues I now experience the hardware is now redundant, as the software is not fit for purpose.

Mascot
18-02-2016, 10:55
227785

Konan
18-02-2016, 10:59
As in i was under the impression that I was purchasing a complete and finished product 'the ultimate driver journey' I was lead to believe that there would be extra content available every month possibly at extra cost. When I purchased the product on the release date, there were no issues/bugs/glitches that became apparent. However each month I get a sizeable update that I must install to enable me to keep using the features that I expect to use (online multi-player). In these updates modifications are made to the original product and I'm experiencing more and more bugs and glitches, specifically in online use. It is my understanding that the original product had been changed, added to and modified enough that it no longer represents the product I purchased and is now faulty. I can no longer use the product online, I have concerns about damage some of the crashes and bugs as doing to my hardware. For a little perspective I own one ps4 game. So my hardware is exclusively used for this product. The cost for me to setup and start 'the ultimate driver journey' has been in the region of ₤700, much less than a pc I admit, however with the issues I now experience the hardware is now redundant, as the software is not fit for purpose.

As stated before,the online issues are not proven to be SMS's doing...there are a lot of PSN issues lately.
They are still investigating the problem and it will be fixed as soon as they find the issue...
I admit a lot of bugs were introduced with some of the patches and have been investigated/fixed or are going to be...
It's still to early to make drastic decisions (even if this has been going on for quite a while now)
I truly believe they are doing everything they can in order to "fix" what is wrong...
Some things just cannot be predicted....
Call it what you want but i still think the service whe are getting from SMS far outweighs that from other developing studio's...

Madmazz116
18-02-2016, 11:00
As in i was under the impression that I was purchasing a complete and finished product 'the ultimate driver journey' I was lead to believe that there would be extra content available every month possibly at extra cost. When I purchased the product on the release date, there were no issues/bugs/glitches that became apparent. However each month I get a sizeable update that I must install to enable me to keep using the features that I expect to use (online multi-player). In these updates modifications are made to the original product and I'm experiencing more and more bugs and glitches, specifically in online use. It is my understanding that the original product had been changed, added to and modified enough that it no longer represents the product I purchased and is now faulty. I can no longer use the product online, I have concerns about damage some of the crashes and bugs as doing to my hardware. For a little perspective I own one ps4 game. So my hardware is exclusively used for this product. The cost for me to setup and start 'the ultimate driver journey' has been in the region of ₤700, much less than a pc I admit, however with the issues I now experience the hardware is now redundant, as the software is not fit for purpose.

right so what can you do about it?...i'll tell ya , nothing , unless you got tones of money, and can afford the best lawyers in the world , even then i doubt you could do anything about it.

Ian Bell
18-02-2016, 11:00
Thank you, that's interesting. I wasn't aware that the product was a 'work in progress' if that's what you meant by WIP. Surely that would constitute false and misleading advertising?

I honestly despair.

Sue us.

BK1975
18-02-2016, 11:46
Public relations at its best Mr Bell :rolleyes:

Ian Bell
18-02-2016, 11:55
Public relations at its best Mr Bell :rolleyes:

I suspect the gentleman was trolling to be honest.

BK1975
18-02-2016, 11:58
"NO" just disgusted at your tone.

Ian Bell
18-02-2016, 11:58
"NO" just disgusted at your tone.

Ahm, I wasn't referring to you. If 'sue us' is a 'disgusting tone' then you mustn't get out much.

Bye though.