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Mad Dog Smith
21-02-2016, 20:04
Hey, guys. My next step in becoming the best driver I can be is gears.

things is, I don't know how they work. Don't even know what they do.

So if I were to set my gears to manuel instead of automatic, how will I use gears to make myself go faster?

And what button would I press. Is it R1 or L1? Both?

Shinzah
21-02-2016, 20:05
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCu9W9xNwtI

kevin kirk
21-02-2016, 20:16
For my style of driving it allows me to control wheel spin off of corners by upshift sooner than normal when needed and allows me to float the car into the corner with down shift instead of with using only the brake. Lets me be a lot more stable on corner entry. Using to much brake on corner entry will make the car unstable making you spin.

Jussi Viljami Karjalainen
21-02-2016, 20:35
The main reason to use them is to be able to always have control over what gear you're in to maximize your power delivery and car balance, as well as shifting points. The automatic gears can often leave you in a gear that's too high (reducing your acceleration and making the car clunkier around corners) or too low (unstable cornering and time wasted on unnecessary shifts), and it might shift before or after the correct shifting point, preventing you from using the full power of the engine.

Mad Dog Smith
23-02-2016, 03:08
Interesting guys. So when should I actually go up and down in gears? Let's say there are no corners. When should I go from first to second.

And should I only go down a gear when cornering?

Thanks for the help.

MISTER WU
23-02-2016, 03:37
Interesting guys. So when should I actually go up and down in gears? Let's say there are no corners. When should I go from first to second.

And should I only go down a gear when cornering?

Thanks for the help.

A lot of cars will allow you to flat shift with out using the clutch, i dont have auto clutch enabled so i have to manually clutch going up and down through he gears and right foot brake and blip the accelerator with my right heel.
It changes gears a lot faster that way, but when you need to change depends on the car as they have different rev ranges mate, some need to be changed at 6000 RPM and others at 8000 RPM.

Mahjik
23-02-2016, 03:46
Rule of thumb: You want to enter into a corner with the gear you want to use when exiting.

i.e. if you want to come out of corner in 2nd gear, then typically you'll be downshifting into 2nd gear before you enter the turn. This isn't a hard rule, but it's a good start.

This is an older video, but the content is still valid (just ignore any music being played):


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQRmYMlmdqM

Rambo_Commando
23-02-2016, 03:53
Oh boy. Lol. Follow your rpm gauge or shift lights. once you have enough experience you can start shifting by the sound of the engine.

111222_1234
23-02-2016, 04:04
Take a GT3 Car on pratice to quick learn (try the 'RUF' GT3 on any track you like).

Gear up
When you start on 1st gear, accelerate 'till you hit the rpm limit (7 or 8k on most cars) of that gear, then you go a gear up (if you're using cockpit cam you can see on the 'motec'), after going a gear up your rpm will be sent back to around 4 or 5, just do the same procedure as you did on the first gear, only go a gear up once you reach the 'rev' or rpm limit.

Gear down
When you coming near a corner you have to decelerate the car and your engine will lower its rpm (around 4 or 5k), that's when you have to go a gear down, with some time you will learn the proper rpm for each car.

Tips.

You can keep one gear above the necessary to make the car a little more stable on trick corners, ie; a corner that requires you to use the 2nd gear you can do that corner on the 3rd gear (usually useful if your tires are in a bad shape).

You can keep one gear above the necessary to prevent overheat on some gt3 cars (the engine will not be working too hard since the rpm will be a little lower) but it will cost some speed, also i think you can save some fuel by doing so (not sure), only do this if you're playing endurance races and you have advantage over the other car.

You can change the gear a bit before the necessary to prevent any kind of engine damage (ie; if your rpm limit is 8k you can go a gear up on 7.4k), this will barely cost you any speed and can prevent some damage, can be useful with some cars on endurance races.

You can use a gear above the necessary if you're playing on the rain, you can avoid some wheel spin since the rpm will be lower (ie; use 3rd gear when the 2nd is required).

If you're playing without 'Stability Control' (SC) you may want to avoid the 1st gear on some GT3 cars since that gear will kick the rpm to its max in 1 or 2 seconds and this can make you lose control of the car.

You can change gears by the engine sound, you will end up using this after some time, after you learn the sound of your engine hitting the rev (rpm limit) and when your engine has its rpm too low.

Resume

Change a gear up when the RPM reach its max and change a gear down when the RPM is low.

Mad Dog Smith
23-02-2016, 04:32
Haha.

Guys, I appreciate the help but it's like all this stuff is in a different language.

I just don't understand half the words.

I might be staying on automatic gears for a very long while.

Shucks ...

DragonSyr
23-02-2016, 07:44
just try it..... its easy to understand the procedure during practice..... its is not nuclear science :) just change the gears before the red lights on your rev instrument (motec)

for the downshift use the 1st gear only on hairpins (below 80 km) . Try it

hkraft300
23-02-2016, 09:28
You'll get the feel for it and after a few hours (even in different cars) you'll change by noise/feel.
If you're bouncing on the limiter you'll hear it: you're shifting too slow and need to change up faster.
Watch the shift lights (in cockpit view/HUD), listen to the engine, feel the car on exit.
Also going with what Mahjik said: you don't want to be changing gears mid-corner. In sequential shift cars its not so much an issue but older stick shift manuals can upset the rear end shifting mid-corner.

havocc
23-02-2016, 10:23
Also going with what Mahjik said: you don't want to be changing gears mid-corner. In sequential shift cars its not so much an issue but older stick shift manuals can upset the rear end shifting mid-corner.

Because pressing clutch causes wheels to have no torque at all for a split second

Rickhendrikse
23-02-2016, 11:49
Don't back off now! It's THE thing that makes it al so much more realistic. Bottom line is this:

Once you hit the rev limiter your engine starts making noise like a vacuum cleaner, shift up before this happens. (easy to learn, just grab a GT3 on, lets say, Monza, and start accelerating.) When approaching a chicane like corner (first corner of monza for example) you'll want to shift down to 1st gear, take the corner and shift up once you hit the accelerator after the corner.

Faster corners (like Monza's Lesmo 1 and 2) are done in 3rd of 4rd gear and u use downshift partially as a breaking tool as well, it makes you feel like you keep momentum (a feeling you don't have if you only use the brakes to slow down)

The same applies to corners like the variante ascari. It's a fast left-right-left corner and with manual gears, you develop a feeling where you almost don't use your brakes but just shift down-up-down and up again.

Also nice to know (and to test for yourself) if you go through a corner like eau rouge (Spa) with manual gears. You'll notice it probably stays in 6th gear. If you run the corner manual, just before the highest point, shift back to 5th and your engine will stay at higher revs, giving more thrust for engine to wheels and in the end improve your top speed at the end of the straight after the corner.

Give it 2 hours, you'll never want to go back ever again.

Happy shift'n!

gregc
23-02-2016, 13:42
It's also worth pointing out that if you are using auto gears, you can still do manual changes if you want - on controller it's L1 to shift down and R1 to shift up. If you are accelerating and hit R1, you will shift up a gear regardless of what the auto gearbox wants to do.

havocc
23-02-2016, 13:49
It's also worth pointing out that if you are using auto gears, you can still do manual changes if you want - on controller it's L1 to shift down and R1 to shift up. If you are accelerating and hit R1, you will shift up a gear regardless of what the auto gearbox wants to do.

I strongly discourage ppl from doing that, the other day after a new install of AC i picked a car and went on track, and i noticed car going from 4 to 6 with a single paddle use and i thought my paddle switch was fu**d up, then i realized i was with auto-gears...

Mahjik
23-02-2016, 14:17
Because pressing clutch causes wheels to have no torque at all for a split second

Not on my wheel...

DragonSyr
23-02-2016, 14:20
Not on my wheel...

i think he means the wheels of the car...not steering wheel :p

Mahjik
23-02-2016, 14:30
i think he means the wheels of the car...not steering wheel :p

If so, torque may not be the appropriate term to use there. However, that's not necessarily the reason not to shift in the middle of a corner.

Djuvinile
23-02-2016, 14:35
Interesting guys. So when should I actually go up and down in gears? Let's say there are no corners. When should I go from first to second.

And should I only go down a gear when cornering?

Thanks for the help.

This is trolling right!? :D

Jussi Viljami Karjalainen
23-02-2016, 14:38
If so, torque may not be the appropriate term to use there. However, that's not necessarily the reason not to shift in the middle of a corner.Torque is exactly the correct term to use, that's what gets sent to the wheels.

That loss of torque can be problematic, but usually the bigger problem is the jolt caused by connecting the clutch again. If accelerating and shifting up or down this can mean that you get a sudden shock that can spin the tyres and cause instability, and if decelerating and shifting down this can mean a sudden extra helping of engine braking, again possibly causing instability.

Mahjik
23-02-2016, 14:48
Torque is exactly the correct term to use, that's what gets sent to the wheels.

That loss of torque can be problematic, but usually the bigger problem is the jolt caused by connecting the clutch again. If accelerating and shifting up or down this can mean that you get a sudden shock that can spin the tyres and cause instability, and if decelerating and shifting down this can mean a sudden extra helping of engine braking, again possibly causing instability.

You pretend that I don't do this in real life... I know exactly how it works and the lack of "torque" is minimal since in most cases the drivers foot will likely still be on the brake (therefore the load bias of the car is still forward). Any real driver will be modulating the brake so the loss of "torque" from the clutch is minimal. The bigger change to the weight balance of the car in the corner is engaging the next gear with the proper revs. With the car already front loaded and in the turn, the driveline shock can cause the already unloaded rear to lose what little traction it already has at this point. However, this is from the driveline re-engaging, not from disengaging.

Jussi Viljami Karjalainen
23-02-2016, 14:55
Yeah, the effect is lower if you're still braking most definitely (though based on pedal telemetry there's a decent number of "real drivers" who don't brake in the middle of a corner, and usually when I think of shifting mid-corner I think of the acceleration side much more), and I said the same thing as you did at the end: The bigger problem is re-engaging.

Mahjik
23-02-2016, 15:02
In reality, if someone is shifting mid corner, they will be slow (for the large majority of racing corners). At mid corner, the driver should already be engaging the throttle. If driver is just then shifting into the proper gear, the driver who was already getting to the throttle will be faster coming out of the corner. There are likely a minority of corners where this may not be true, but it will be true more times on a course than it's false. The large majority of the time, when the foot comes off the brake, it should be back on the throttle (not always accelerating, but using it to balance the car just after heavy braking).

N0body Of The Goat
23-02-2016, 16:01
Maybe I'm mistaken, but I thought the optimum time to shift to a higher gear does not always match the engine rev limit?

Some engines have a major loss of horses at the extreme high end of their rev range eg. The Mercedes SLS GT3; where it is better to shift to a higher gear at ~7000rpm rather than the ~8500 limit?

Jussi Viljami Karjalainen
23-02-2016, 16:07
Maybe I'm mistaken, but I thought the optimum time to shift to a higher gear does not always match the engine rev limit?

Some engines have a major loss of horses at the extreme high end of their rev range eg. The Mercedes SLS GT3; where it is better to shift to a higher gear at ~7000rpm rather than the ~8500 limit?Yeah, essentially you want to always maximize the power output at all times. If you have more power after a shift than before it (due to the power dipping down near the limiter) then you're shifting too late, and should shift so that you have equal power before and after the shift. With most cars though the power dip at the end is either non-existent or so small that the drop in revs already takes you to lower power anyway, so it's not really an issue. But for the cars where it is an issue (like the Bentley, Mercedes and and Renault Megane R.S. 265 for example) it can give you a significant advantage.

hkraft300
23-02-2016, 17:01
^ still need a significant HP drop at the top of rev range, no?
If HP dips a little its OK to still redline, but depends on your gear ratio spacing too. That doesn't mean you want to bounce on the limiter either.

Someone also mentioned above using downshifts to slow the car at Monza instead of brakes. Good luck keeping that up for a few laps with mech failure on :rolleyes:

Jussi Viljami Karjalainen
23-02-2016, 17:14
^ still need a significant HP drop at the top of rev range, no?
If HP dips a little its OK to still redline, but depends on your gear ratio spacing too. That doesn't mean you want to bounce on the limiter either.It's pretty much entirely car and gearing dependent. You basically need to have the telemetry on and keep and eye on the power while shifting at various points to figure it out. I wouldn't necessarily ever advocate hitting the rev limiter, once you hit it you already lose a bit of power so shifting right before you hit it is usually better.

hkraft300
23-02-2016, 17:23
A lot of faffing about multiplying gear ratios and torques...

+1 for torque/HP graphs added to the car selection screens along with various other specs and did-you-know's for pcars2...

Jussi Viljami Karjalainen
23-02-2016, 17:42
A lot of faffing about multiplying gear ratios and torques...I find it's usually a matter of 30 seconds on the test track, really. =)