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Mauler_77
23-02-2016, 16:52
Firstly this 3.5 is currently my favourite car in the game, it's fantastic (my tune makes me very happy) and I know that in patch 9.0's notes the way tyres get heat into them has been updated (I had to add pressures to counteract the overheating but no problem) but I have noticed a big increase of tyre wear now and just wondered if it is intentional or an accidental by-product of the new tyre heat model for this car?

I ran a 5 lap race round Road America, AI @ 80, and before the end of the race my front left was not green at all, like literally nothing, yet was not overheating before wearing down. It didn't go red at all. I know this track as well as Catalunya can be tough on tyres, but there is a big difference between now and patch 8.0, and not just at these tracks, so please can the tyre wear on this car be verified as correct or is it a slight error that can be fixed (if broken).

Also the new grip level on this car sticks it to the road like no other - it's great!

Rambo_Commando
23-02-2016, 17:03
I've noticed the same thing in the Formula Rookie cars too. My front left will be the first to go from green to grey but my car will have the same amount of grip. Even with 2 grey tires, I'm still setting fastest lap times in race.

N0body Of The Goat
23-02-2016, 17:10
There is an interesting dedicated server named "Public ranking server" which can be configured by the first driver joining it (I'm still trying to sus out the ranking function, it looks like it fails if all other drivers quit before the race end, which is a shame).

I configured it to run the Renault 3.5s at Brands Hatch GP the other day.

Now I cannot recall what wear multiplier I was using, but I do recall having ~50% wear mid-race, when I locked up the tyres. Suddenly, in that moment I lost almost all the remaining green on the HUD on the left tyres (so the rear was gone, does the wear HUD still only show 50% of the actual wear range for fronts?).

Mauler_77
23-02-2016, 17:15
Yes I think the HUD still only shows 50%. I also can't feel much difference in terms of grip when my tyres are greyed out but I swear my braking distances are affected. I haven't driven many other cars recently so can't say much about those, I just thought it was likely linked to the patch notes regarding this Renault in particular.

Shinzah
23-02-2016, 17:23
For a car whose tires are made to last a half hour, I think it's fine O-o

Mauler_77
23-02-2016, 17:54
If they lasted half an hour in the game I'd be happy too, but when set to 'real' they do not.

TexasTyme214
23-02-2016, 18:04
I believe I've gotten around 23 minutes at Hockenheim, but my front left would peak around 107C. Also, I had a heavier fuel load than necessary, which should wear the tires more. I can see the tires lasting 30 minutes with a better setup.

Jussi Viljami Karjalainen
23-02-2016, 18:25
For a car whose tires are made to last a half hour, I think it's fine O-oIt's actually 40 minutes +1 lap most of the time (38 minutes @Spa). Looking at the lap times compared to qualifying etc. I'd say it's plausible they're holding back a bit to make the tyres last.

Shinzah
23-02-2016, 18:28
It's actually 40 minutes +1 lap most of the time (38 minutes @Spa). Looking at the lap times compared to qualifying etc. I'd say it's plausible they're holding back a bit to make the tyres last.

According to the Eurocup website it's 25min +1lap Oo

Edit: That's the 2.0 though, not really a series I know well overall..

Mauler_77
23-02-2016, 18:30
I believe I've gotten around 23 minutes at Hockenheim, but my front left would peak around 107C. Also, I had a heavier fuel load than necessary, which should wear the tires more. I can see the tires lasting 30 minutes with a better setup.

Yes, my tune is for quick races or TT stuff really, so there is that. My point was really that before the latest patch I had no issue with wear or overheating no matter the lap count but since the update there is both overheating and more wear. The overheating I can compensate for, I just want to know if the increased wear was part of the plan or not.

Jussi Viljami Karjalainen
23-02-2016, 18:33
According to the Eurocup website it's 25min +1lap Oo

Edit: That's the 2.0 though, not really a series I know well overall..I highly recommend http://wsr.alkamelsystems.com/ for all sorts of nifty World Series By Renault stuff. In 3.5 all of the races except Spa were 40 minutes +1 lap in 2015. =)

Shinzah
23-02-2016, 18:33
Logically more heat would lead to more wear, they are pretty soft tires

Mauler_77
23-02-2016, 19:01
Logically more heat would lead to more wear, they are pretty soft tires

That's why I'm surprised. You can dial the heat out by adjusting pressures, but the wear remains.

Riccardo De Rosa
18-04-2016, 11:30
Formula Renault 3.5 @ Silverstone GP after 9 laps soft tires are over.
I wanted to ask if tire wear is correct.
Thanks in advance

Sankyo
18-04-2016, 12:21
Formula Renault 3.5 @ Silverstone GP after 9 laps soft tires are over.
I wanted to ask if tire wear is correct.
Thanks in advance

How about the other open wheelers, do they do significantly longer with softs?

Riccardo De Rosa
18-04-2016, 12:24
How about the other open wheelers, do they do significantly longer with softs?

with Formula C with soft tires @ ZIC i have participated in a race of 25 laps and I could have done more laps

Raven403
18-04-2016, 12:30
The F Renault is very sensitive to scrubbing I find, so that could play a role in the quick wear. I actually think they aren't that far off as far as wear is concerned, where the Indycar softs last TOO long. There's basically never any need to run the Primary tire on the Indycar because the Reds last so long. So the Renaults softs getting chewed up makes sense, but Ill have to go back and do some tests to see if its excessive, I didn't find it to be.

hkraft300
18-04-2016, 13:00
The reds are pretty tough on the Indy.
Tracks like Hockenheimring or Monza can double stint the reds. Through a twisty short track like Sonoma and the picture changes.
Or maybe its my sucky gamepad skills!

havocc
18-04-2016, 13:05
The F Renault is very sensitive to scrubbing

Yeah, i had a throttle spin at second chicane at monza and tyres lost about 15%

Riccardo De Rosa
18-04-2016, 13:17
In real life Formula Renault 3.5 @ Silverstone 2015
the drivers finished a 24 laps (40' + 1 lap) race without pit stops.
Only three drivers have changed the tires in race 1. Track status Dry

lap times correspond with what we can do in project cars. The problem is only the duration of the tires at this point.

t0daY
18-04-2016, 13:24
I can confirm the high Tire wear with the formula Renault. We did yesterday a race, 60 lap race with 30 drivers on Monza GP.

I practiced a lot for this event and I made also some tests for it. After 20 laps on Monza I had around 70% Tire wear on the front left. Around 35% on the other 3 tires. So I decided to do a 2-stopper for the event. Some people did a 1-stop at lap 30 but the pace dropped about 1-2 seconds.

That's everything I can tell you about it. Hope it could help :)

Raven403
18-04-2016, 14:06
I can confirm the high Tire wear with the formula Renault. We did yesterday a race, 60 lap race with 30 drivers on Monza GP.

I practiced a lot for this event and I made also some tests for it. After 20 laps on Monza I had around 70% Tire wear on the front left. Around 35% on the other 3 tires. So I decided to do a 2-stopper for the event. Some people did a 1-stop at lap 30 but the pace dropped about 1-2 seconds.

That's everything I can tell you about it. Hope it could help :)

That's about right then no? 20 laps is about the threshold for a soft tire like that.

t0daY
18-04-2016, 14:41
That's about right then no? 20 laps is about the threshold for a soft tire like that.

Depends on the view of it. Compared to the other open wheelers it is quite high but personally I really liked that they went off after 12+ laps.

Riccardo De Rosa
18-04-2016, 15:26
That's about right then no? 20 laps is about the threshold for a soft tire like that.

@Monza has few corners

technical reference must be reality


This is pit stop analysis in a race of 24 laps @ Silverstone


http://s1.postimg.org/nr1n84uv3/pitstop.png

only 5 drivers of 19.

havocc
18-04-2016, 15:28
@Monza has few corners

technical reference must be reality


This is pit stop analysis in a race of 24 laps @ Silverstone


http://s1.postimg.org/nr1n84uv3/pitstop.png

only 5 drivers of 19.

That's Jerez not Silverstone

Riccardo De Rosa
18-04-2016, 15:30
yes sorry
only 3 drivers of 19 - 24 laps
Jerez 23 laps


http://s4.postimg.org/ocmch5mwt/pit2.png

Raven403
18-04-2016, 15:32
@Monza has few corners

technical reference must be reality


This is pit stop analysis in a race of 24 laps @ Silverstone


http://s1.postimg.org/nr1n84uv3/pitstop.png

only 5 drivers of 19.

What was the track temp? How much Aero? Was there scrubbing in the high speed corners? There's a bunch of reasons the tires would fall off a bit quicker anywhere. Not arguing the validity of the claim, just wondering how far off it really is. The way the real life data is incorporated into the game could just be the reason it seems to fall off. The game is a bit different than Real World

Riccardo De Rosa
18-04-2016, 15:38
What was the track temp? How much Aero? Was there scrubbing in the high speed corners? There's a bunch of reasons the tires would fall off a bit quicker anywhere. Not arguing the validity of the claim, just wondering how far off it really is. The way the real life data is incorporated into the game could just be the reason it seems to fall off. The game is a bit different than Real World

here you can see all you need

http://s4.postimg.org/kg17ft1z1/wheater.png

Jussi Viljami Karjalainen
18-04-2016, 15:39
So running 1:44-1:45 laps around Silverstone the tyres don't last 24 laps?

TexasTyme214
18-04-2016, 15:43
I'm regularly getting 30-45 minutes out of these tires. Could the default setup burn through front tires due to heavy understeer?

Riccardo De Rosa
18-04-2016, 15:46
So running 1:44-1:45 laps around Silverstone the tyres don't last 24 laps?

no Jussi

This is an example

http://s1.postimg.org/l369rem67/Sil1.png

@ thirteenth lap the tires were finished

cluck
18-04-2016, 15:47
Monza consists of tight chicanes that require braking from near V-Max to 1st or 2nd, combined with fast right-handers (one is a long 6th gear bend, two are 4th gear turns and then there's the final high-speed right-hander). The only tyre that took the most punishment, for most of us in the race, was the front left. The rear left had less than half the wear of the front. The right-hand tyres barely showed any wear at all.

All that aside, one or two of the guys were on a single stop, for a 60-lap race.

t0daY
18-04-2016, 15:51
no Jussi

This is an example

http://s1.postimg.org/l369rem67/Sil1.png

@ thirteenth lap the tires were finished

Depends heavily on the driver tbh :/ Here is my full test for the monza race I mentioned earlier and as you can see, I could hold my pace over the 20 laps around 31'.
I think the pace overall in our event was acceptable. Fastest Qualy time was a 1:28,8xx and the race pace was around 1:31,xxx.


So I did a little test stint in the practice session. Full tank with 110 liter and 20 laps later I got this result here:

I had around 25L left with what I could not driver another 10 laps cause of the fuel usage (3,6L - 3,8L). Looks like a 2-stopper for me tomorrow, laptimes were okay-ish, after lap 13/14 the rear got more and more unstable and the front left was completly gone. For the test I used 6/10 downforce which felt really good. Temps looked also fine, lets see what the weather brings us tomorrow in the race :D :)

I used DRS only on the backstraight (after ascari) and on the mainstraight (after parabolica).
Setup Database: http://projectcarssetups.eu/#/viewsetup/228139809*
Tom Shanes Profiler: http://cloud.revolutionsimracing.com/index.php/s/9y9ju0Fo4Bq04kF

* Huge thank you to miagi who basically made this setup. I tweaked it a little bit around for my own purpose. But our setupwisenheimer stays our setupwisenheimer :D

231621

231622

Riccardo De Rosa
18-04-2016, 15:54
Monza is not Silverstone ;)

t0daY
18-04-2016, 15:56
Monza is not Silverstone ;)

Really? Damn...

Still I do not think the wear is much higher on silverstone as in monza. Just wanted to show my data I recorded during the test. Only wanted to say it depends heavily on the driver, his setup and his driving style how long the tires will last. Only because your tires went off after 13 laps does not mean they will go off in general after 13 laps :)

havocc
18-04-2016, 16:16
probably adding a click or two at default front wing will help, this car has too short gears to get benefit from low DF setups even at monza

Riccardo De Rosa
18-04-2016, 17:37
Really? Damn...

Still I do not think the wear is much higher on silverstone as in monza. Just wanted to show my data I recorded during the test. Only wanted to say it depends heavily on the driver, his setup and his driving style how long the tires will last. Only because your tires went off after 13 laps does not mean they will go off in general after 13 laps :)

I did not want to disrespect. with Monza is not Silverstone ;) Silverstone has six curves more.
Thanks to show your data.

If you have time, when you can, try to run at Silverstone. ;)

t0daY
19-04-2016, 06:41
I did not want to disrespect. with Monza is not Silverstone ;) Silverstone has six curves more.
Thanks to show your data.

If you have time, when you can, try to run at Silverstone. ;)

No offense taken, everything good :)

Riccardo De Rosa
19-04-2016, 08:23
Yesterday I tried. impossible to finish the race without changing tires.
Silverston GP weather clear time 14:00 x1
looks to the thirteenth lap

https://i.imgsafe.org/3c3459c.png

Riccardo De Rosa
19-04-2016, 08:45
there was another driver who ran with me. he had to change tires like me in same lap.

havocc
19-04-2016, 09:11
I have a lot of scrubbing at luffield and a bit at stowe

Doge
19-04-2016, 11:20
I think the wear rate it's fine but how the front wears 3x what the rear does is nonsense. And it's not an indicator problem, the front gets weaker as the stint goes on. If you set your car to be balanced on first laps you end up with a truck.

havocc
19-04-2016, 13:22
Tyres get better as they wear for me :rolleyes:
231677

This is probably fuel related (30L) btw

Riccardo De Rosa
19-04-2016, 13:41
only 9 laps?

havocc
19-04-2016, 13:43
only 9 laps?

Session ended :(

Riccardo De Rosa
19-04-2016, 15:56
So running 1:44-1:45 laps around Silverstone the tyres don't last 24 laps?

AI 100% is too fast or i'm too slow @ Silverstone GP ?

edit: and i come last if I go so slowly @Silverstone GP with AI 100% :dispirited:
http://s31.postimg.org/segyod7cr/20160419173252_1.jpg

havocc
19-04-2016, 16:03
AI 100% is too fast or i'm too slow @ Silverstone GP ? :)

http://s31.postimg.org/segyod7cr/20160419173252_1.jpg

Something is very wrong with AI when runs faster laps than F-A record...(1.28.966) :D


Mods please report this to devs

Cluck make yourself useful instead of clucking around!!

He will now beat that 1.28 time to prove me wrong

Jussi Viljami Karjalainen
19-04-2016, 16:31
... Yeah, that's a bit overdone. I also noticed that Zonda R on Brands Hatch was going faster than the leaderboard top time when driven by AI100, so there might be some of these cases around.

It wasn't THAT glaring though. =)

beetes_juice
19-04-2016, 17:40
Did you fastforward through the session/simulate to end?

Only times I've seen the unrealistic times is when I do the above. Has been brought up before.

Riccardo De Rosa
19-04-2016, 18:01
no real time . after 20 min quali.

Doge
19-04-2016, 18:43
Tyres get better as they wear for me :rolleyes:
231677

This is probably fuel related (30L) btw

It's probably because you're doing it fine. You need to set it to oversteer initially so it's ok in the central part of the stint.

Riccardo De Rosa
22-04-2016, 05:51
@t0day you tried some laps? somebody else?

flatspunout
22-04-2016, 07:17
In my experience the Formula Renault slick is the closest tire in the game to its real life counterpart. I know 45 minute races can be run on a single set at Hockenheim GP, Nurburgring GP, Spa, and Silverstone GP. They do have to be managed but it can be done. 100% AI is stupid fast in this car (and aggressive to the point of self destruction) and you will burn through the tires in no time trying to keep up with their pace at most tracks.

Soft tires are another story...Indy Reds especially just last way too long and render the medium/hard compounds useless, especially given how much longer pit stops take in the game than in real motorsport.

Riccardo De Rosa
22-04-2016, 08:55
On 26 April I have a 25 laps race on Silverstone GP.
http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?45681-IROn-Italia-sim-racing-on-PC&p=1264978&viewfull=1#post1264978
then I will publish the race report here.

Mahjik
22-04-2016, 13:44
On 26 April I have a 25 laps race on Silverstone GP.
http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?45681-IROn-Italia-sim-racing-on-PC&p=1264978&viewfull=1#post1264978
then I will publish the race report here.

Just FYI, looking up the results for the 2015 season the group did 24 laps for Silverstone. Your league may be pushing the tires just a little longer than the real series.

Riccardo De Rosa
22-04-2016, 14:26
Just FYI, looking up the results for the 2015 season the group did 24 laps for Silverstone. Your league may be pushing the tires just a little longer than the real series.

LOL Mahjik it's one lap more.
my league 25 laps and in the real life 24 laps. :)
so if all the drivers will make pit stops at the twenty-fourth round. tire wear will be right. ok?

Mahjik
22-04-2016, 14:45
LOL Mahjik it's one lap more.
my league 25 laps and in the real life 24 laps. :)
so if all the drivers will make pit stops at the twenty-fourth round. tire wear will be right. ok?

One lap on worn tires can be the difference of finishing or crashing. Justing pointing out what the real series ran. FWIW, I haven't ran the car recently, but I did when it wa released. Here's some notes I had at that time:


Ran a 30 minute (dry) race with tire wear at 2x (so the tires effectively ran a 60 minute race). The tires were basically done at the end of the race. It appears the official races are 44 minutes (+1 lap) so that should be right on target. I could feel the grip really beginning to fall off during the last 5 minutes are so of the race (so that would be about 40 minutes worth of driving).

This wasn't necessarily using Silverstone, so there will be some differences per track.

Riccardo De Rosa
22-04-2016, 15:04
All drivers on my league, who are training for the race report the same tire life. 12 or 13 laps without pushing too much.

on my server tires wear is set to "standard" value on server.cfg "6"

havocc
22-04-2016, 15:31
I'm scared of what will happen with this car at Brno, Catalunya or Willow springs :D

Riccardo De Rosa
22-04-2016, 16:12
Perhaps I have found the problem. perhaps...

maybe there is a missing data on the weather: we can not control the temperature.

the date set for the server is 5 September 2015 like the real data of race.

in the game I have the following values: the asphalt has a temperature of 35 degrees.
and the air temperature 25 degrees.

In reality, the track temperature on september 5 2015 was 17 degrees and the air temperature Max 13 degrees Min 12 degrees during the race 1.

maybe it just depends on this?

flatspunout
22-04-2016, 23:14
All drivers on my league, who are training for the race report the same tire life. 12 or 13 laps without pushing too much.

on my server tires wear is set to "standard" value on server.cfg "6"

According to the HUD they will be done at about that point, but the HUD is wrong.

Riccardo De Rosa
23-04-2016, 05:30
According to the HUD they will be done at about that point, but the HUD is wrong.

only in the Formula Renault the HUD is wrong ?

so now we have several hypotheses.
1) the tires wear out too quickly (error tires)
2) the track temperatures are warmer than the reality (temperature error)
3) The HUD is not working properly (only in the Formula Renault?) (HUD error)

I do not know what is the most correct hypothesis. or which combination of hypothesis. the sure fact is that there is something wrong.

we can have an opinion of a developer?

Thanks.

N0body Of The Goat
23-04-2016, 13:53
Perhaps I have found the problem. perhaps...

maybe there is a missing data on the weather: we can not control the temperature.

the date set for the server is 5 September 2015 like the real data of race.

in the game I have the following values: the asphalt has a temperature of 35 degrees.
and the air temperature 25 degrees.

In reality, the track temperature on september 5 2015 was 17 degrees and the air temperature Max 13 degrees Min 12 degrees during the race 1.

maybe it just depends on this?

Do the tyres last longer if you race at for example 1st January 2016 @ 0900, when the track temp will be closer to the real track temp on 5th September 2015?

IIRC, the lowest track temp possible in pCARS1 is 16C and the lowest air temp is 12C, which is during the winter nights (I cannot remember if rain/fog is needed as well to give this minimum).

Jussi Viljami Karjalainen
23-04-2016, 16:30
BTW, one thing that I noticed while looking at some of the results a bit, is that in Silverstone Race 1 in 2015 which was won by by Tino Ellinas his fastest lap was 1:44.475, and 14 of his 24 laps were over 1:45. By contrast Riccardo's times show him pushing the car into the 1:42-1:43 region, until his tyres wear out, at which point he starts dropping to 1:44-1:45 region. For example in this post (http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?45273-Formula-Renault-significant-tyre-wear-post-patch-9-0&p=1267229&viewfull=1#post1267229) his first 9 laps, aside from the one where he got a penalty, were all a second or even two faster than the fastest race lap in that race, more like qualifying pace really.

I've gotta wonder if perhaps one reason for the high wear rates is simply pushing too hard too early for too long. Would the tyres last any better by taking it easier and driving something closer to 1:45.000 level lap times? =/

EDIT: And relating to this, in Race 2 2015 the lap times were a bit quicker, 1:43.000 was the fastest lap time, and the winner did 13 1:43.XXX laps. Interesting to note also is that the race was the same length, 24 laps, but this time everyone made a pitstop (well, everyone that finished the race anyway).

Also I don't think we can know what the track temperature was back then. The data shows just the same flat line for races 1 and 2, which were on consecutive days, and the ambient temperature varied a lot both during the sessions and between the race days (Race 1 was about 13.2 C on average, Race 2 was about 15.5 C). I think the track temperature meter was just busted.

Riccardo De Rosa
23-04-2016, 17:12
BTW, one thing that I noticed while looking at some of the results a bit, is that in Silverstone Race 1 in 2015 which was won by by Tino Ellinas his fastest lap was 1:44.475, and 14 of his 24 laps were over 1:45. By contrast Riccardo's times show him pushing the car into the 1:42-1:43 region, until his tyres wear out, at which point he starts dropping to 1:44-1:45 region. For example in this post (http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?45273-Formula-Renault-significant-tyre-wear-post-patch-9-0&p=1267229&viewfull=1#post1267229) his first 9 laps, aside from the one where he got a penalty, were all a second or even two faster than the fastest race lap in that race, more like qualifying pace really.

I've gotta wonder if perhaps one reason for the high wear rates is simply pushing too hard too early for too long. Would the tyres last any better by taking it easier and driving something closer to 1:45.000 level lap times? =/
.

Thanks Jussi for this post. But if i run closer to 1:45.000 i lose the race. it would not be a good strategy.

if I push I can make laps with an average of 1: 41.000 / 1:42 and I can also make the pit. and be faster than who run with 1:45.
For the pit i need only 30 seconds more .. With an average 1:42 for 25 laps i get 75 seconds from 1:45.( 3 seconds for lap x 25 laps = 75 seconds more)
Perhaps the pitstop is too fast ?

havocc
23-04-2016, 17:29
I found something useful, just did a 25 laps race (no ai) and at lap 12 front left was gone so i softened front sway bar for last lap and entered pits, after that i left that softer sway bar and increased rear and i did a 1.5 s faster lap than my previous (.42), running on costant .43/.44 and ended the race with front left at about 15%, so adjusting sway bars as the race and tyre wear goes is important to avoid understeer that would lead to additional scrubbing and wear

Jussi Viljami Karjalainen
23-04-2016, 17:38
Thanks Jussi for this post. But if i run closer to 1:45.000 i lose the race. it would not be a good strategy.

if I push I can make laps with an average of 1: 41.000 / 1:42 and I can also make the pit. and be faster than who run with 1:45.
For the pit i need only 30 seconds more .. With an average 1:42 for 25 laps i get 75 seconds from 1:45.( 3 seconds for lap x 25 laps = 75 seconds more)
Perhaps the pitstop is too fast ?Nah, the real life pit stops also took only about 26-27 seconds (data from Pit Analysis). Perhaps they realized the same thing after Race 1 which is why everyone pitted in during race 2? =)
I found something useful, just did a 25 laps race (no ai) and at lap 12 front left was gone so i softened front sway bar for last lap and entered pits, after that i left that softer sway bar and increased rear and i did a 1.5 s faster lap than my previous, running on costant .43/.44 and ended the race with front left at about 15%, so adjusting sway bars as the race and tyre wear goes is important to avoid understeer that would lead to additional scrubbing and wearYeah, avoiding front end scrub would definitely be a thing to do during a race. The car probably has those in-car adjustable sway bars for a reason. =)

Riccardo De Rosa
23-04-2016, 19:57
Nah, the real life pit stops also took only about 26-27 seconds (data from Pit Analysis). Perhaps they realized the same thing after Race 1 which is why everyone pitted in during race 2? =)Yeah, avoiding front end scrub would definitely be a thing to do during a race. The car probably has those in-car adjustable sway bars for a reason. =)

so if time for pitstop is correct, if tires wear is correct, the formula Renault performance is not correct.

look race 2 real time lap. 1:46 1:48 1:50 1:56 etc etc.. and look my time table.

With Formula Renault i can run with an average 1:41 / 1:42 and with pitstop i can run all race more fast than real counterpart.

in race 2, this is very obvious. The formula renault in the game is too powerful? For this reason the tires wear quickly?

in conclusion.... that's okay. I know that we can not have perfection. I like Project Cars just the same.

EDIT: perhaps the gasoline weight should decrease more performance?

http://s25.postimg.org/7j86s7m3v/image.jpg (http://postimg.org/image/7j86s7m3v/) http://s25.postimg.org/ihjgaeap7/image.jpg (http://postimg.org/image/ihjgaeap7/) http://s25.postimg.org/uuwahb0dn/image.jpg (http://postimg.org/image/uuwahb0dn/) http://s25.postimg.org/kuwsnnzqj/image.jpg (http://postimg.org/image/kuwsnnzqj/) http://s25.postimg.org/tr7krlqcr/image.jpg (http://postimg.org/image/tr7krlqcr/)

Jussi Viljami Karjalainen
23-04-2016, 20:14
I don't understand how you're reading that if that's what you get out of it. Looking at the top guys for each lap there are only two laps where one of the leading 3 cars didn't do either a 1:43 something or a 1:44 something, and those two laps are laps 12 and 13, which judging by how suddenly they got longer was likely due to some accident that caused them to have to slow down for a while. And yes, sim racers often, in fact usually, can go faster than real life even if the performance was spot on, because we have many advantages over real life. And I'm sure you also know that during a tight race when you're constantly jockeying for position with your competitors it can be hard to put in consistently fast laps all the time. =)

Riccardo De Rosa
23-04-2016, 20:20
Yes. you're right .
"sim racers often, in fact usually, can go faster than real life even if the performance was spot on, because we have many advantages over real life. And I'm sure you also know that during a tight race when you're constantly jockeying for position with your competitors it can be hard to put in consistently fast laps all the time. =)"

;)

Doge
23-04-2016, 23:13
If the car performance is spot on, and track conditions too, you'll go faster in a real car. SoP >>>>>> toy steering wheel. With your ass in a car you understand much bettee what it's doing.

Of course, all of that under the assumptions that you're perfectly used to both kinds of feedback and that you are not simply hotlapping and restarting ad infinitum, but racing and can't afford crashing.

Jussi Viljami Karjalainen
23-04-2016, 23:58
Rote learning + exploitation of sim capabilities (essentially limitless practice and tuning opportunities together with reliable car and track conditions with no variance in engine or tyre performance and unlimited numbers of everything etc.) + no fear of injuring yourself + no real drawback for breaking anything + no physical strain (THAT is a big one, it's much harder to focus on and execute proper steering and pedal inputs when being thrown around at 2+ Gs) >>>>>> SoP.

The fastest people who drive sims often use barely any FFB either, that sort of feedback isn't necessary for being fast if you can afford the time to just learn what you should do in every corner.

Roger Prynne
24-04-2016, 10:48
Rote learning + exploitation of sim capabilities (essentially limitless practice and tuning opportunities together with reliable car and track conditions with no variance in engine or tyre performance and unlimited numbers of everything etc.) + no fear of injuring yourself + no real drawback for breaking anything + no physical strain (THAT is a big one, it's much harder to focus on and execute proper steering and pedal inputs when being thrown around at 2+ Gs) >>>>>> SoP.

The fastest people who drive sims often use barely any FFB either, that sort of feedback isn't necessary for being fast if you can afford the time to just learn what you should do in every corner.
This is true as I've tried it myself, but it takes all the fun out of it.

havocc
24-04-2016, 21:13
I found a solution for tyre scrubbing, don't use them for cornering...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HDdCanQ_ttM

Doge
24-04-2016, 22:19
Rote learning + exploitation of sim capabilities (essentially limitless practice and tuning opportunities together with reliable car and track conditions with no variance in engine or tyre performance and unlimited numbers of everything etc.) + no fear of injuring yourself + no real drawback for breaking anything + no physical strain (THAT is a big one, it's much harder to focus on and execute proper steering and pedal inputs when being thrown around at 2+ Gs) >>>>>> SoP.

The fastest people who drive sims often use barely any FFB either, that sort of feedback isn't necessary for being fast if you can afford the time to just learn what you should do in every corner.

You´re moving the goalpoasts. In that scenario you propose, I agree. Driving a gazillion laps in a TT effort at banzai attack levels restarting anytime you crash, of course you´ll get stuff you can´t get in a real quali session with 3 attempts to nail it. No seconds, but some tenths, for sure.

If you re-read, wat I say is: give a guy perfect familiarity with both environments, give him exactly the same car performance and track conditions in both, give him the same consequences for mistakes (you go off > you lose time/DNF) he´ll drive faster and more consistently in real life.

"Being thrown around at 3g" is not a negative aspect, it´s EXACTLY what you lack in the sim and what will slow you down. Being rigidly secured to a racing seatbelt is impossible to replace. That´s not "strain" once you´re used for it, that´s simply the best feedback you´ll ever get. "No consequences for breaking anything" is eliminated in the scenario I propose. "Fear of injury" is not a thing once you introduce familiarity with the environment.

hkraft300
26-04-2016, 02:39
Errmm not quite.
Yes we lack a lot of SoP feedback (a good set of transducers can get us close).
Hey Jussi, where's that video of that iRacing champion getting a test in an open wheel (F3?) Car you posted the other week?
Poor guy barfed (regurgitated) his breakfast lunch and dinner all over himself. The G-forces were killing him: he didn't have the physical fitness/conditioning for it. The engineer noted he's quick and gutsy and about 3 seconds off race pace which is a great achievement having never driven a real race car on a track.
Extreme example? Maybe.

Heavily debated topic over the years (and more scientific research I think would help the case for sims) and I think a lot of the sim vs RL argument will come down to quality (and extent) of hardware as the software aspect becomes better in accuracy.

That being said: SoP is a form of feedback sensation which can be replaced and re-learned. I think the human brain (especially a pro race driver's) is quite flexible in that sense. Throw me any of us in the hot loud raucous environment that is a race car cockpit: our senses will initially be overwhelmed by all the noise, vibrations, g-forces, motion sickness etc. Over time we'll filter the sensations that are necessary/informative.

Any of us going from a non-ffb to ffb wheel will initially be slow then adapt. Then going from ffb to transducer/shaker rig. Then going from that to a real race car, we'll need to adapt.
Whether any of us become actually faster in the real car will probably come down to the amount of laps we have available to adapt.

E_Luckow
29-04-2016, 02:31
Maybe a stupid question, but what are the tyre choices for the car?

I started a race with slicks... during the pit stop I had only two choices: Hard and Rain. Is this a bug?

Invincible
29-04-2016, 04:46
Maybe a stupid question, but what are the tyre choices for the car?

I started a race with slicks... during the pit stop I had only two choices: Hard and Rain. Is this a bug?

Nope. That's not a bug. It only has those two tyre options. Although I wouldn't call the FR35 slick a "hard" tyre. But that would be just a wrong name, not a bug.

E_Luckow
29-04-2016, 05:02
Nope. That's not a bug. It only has those two tyre options. Although I wouldn't call the FR35 slick a "hard" tyre. But that would be just a wrong name, not a bug.

Ok! Thanks!

BreadedVirus
13-07-2016, 03:31
Been running the Formula Renault around Silverstone, Brno, Road America and Catalunya to name a few and the front left tyre is over heating to the point that the tyre wears out a lot faster than the other 3. Also in certain areas of the mentioned tracks, the wheel starts shaking .

This is happening with the default setup and my own setups, BUT only with this car.

Could it be a...bug?

havocc
13-07-2016, 09:25
There's already a thread here (http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?45273-Formula-Renault-significant-tyre-wear-post-patch-9-0)

Sankyo
13-07-2016, 09:59
Threads merged.