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Ptyochromis
10-03-2016, 00:59
After being slammed off the track after making a clean pass (for the 1,000,000th time), there should totally be a penalty for purposeful contact with another car. One person gets to ruin the race for many others. Not to mention, as someone who doesn't use driving aids; getting pit maneuvered by someone who does use them, always favors the aided. Speed penalties for car to car contact will inevitably force people to drive more conscientiously

Speed penalties for using run-off areas on the track being called as "track cutting" discourages people from using them and causing more car to car collisions.

Sankyo
10-03-2016, 14:49
A penalty would be nice, but I think the problem is how the game would decide whether contact is on purpose or accidental.

binarywarrior
10-03-2016, 15:07
Not really e.g. iRacing contact is contact everyone does their best to avoid it. I think in 20 or so road races someone touched my car gently twice. I hope Pcars 2 has some kind of system because public races are mainly 99% trash. Which is a real shame.. to easy to make risky moves or block on purpose using contact. Something simple like Amateur & Pro lobbies with some kind of filter and the host has option to choose? Someone also made a script to kick racers from a weekend session with x amount of contact/cutting corners... anything is a start in all honesty. There is also a script knocking about to kick racers who idle on start line, these are all things SMS should have implemented in all honesty.

Most accidents are caused by the horrible starting lights which half the racers jump(and get away with) and half don't I'd rather see an AC approach if this cannot be fixed and no one can use gears until green.. not the best but would stop half the stupidness at first corner.

Sankyo
10-03-2016, 15:50
Not really e.g. iRacing contact is contact everyone does their best to avoid it. I think in 20 or so road races someone touched my car gently twice.
IMO that's not really realistic, as (light) contact is perfectly fine in many real-life racing series. And contact it avoided by drivers naturally if it has a big risk of damaging your car (e.g. in open-wheelers). I really don't mind some door handle rubbing as long as damage and collision physics are decent.

chig88
10-03-2016, 15:56
IMO that's not really realistic, as (light) contact is perfectly fine in many real-life racing series. And contact it avoided by drivers naturally if it has a big risk of damaging your car (e.g. in open-wheelers). I really don't mind some door handle rubbing as long as damage and collision physics are decent.

Which, unfortunately, they are not in Project CARS.

Trying a pass which involves door-to-door contact results in the two cars gluing together an unacceptably high proportion of the time.

Diamond_Eyes
10-03-2016, 16:00
+1 for the option to be able to race in Ghost Mode

:ghost:

Sankyo
10-03-2016, 16:07
Which, unfortunately, they are not in Project CARS.

Trying a pass which involves door-to-door contact results in the two cars gluing together an unacceptably high proportion of the time.
I agree, but that wasn't the discussion topic :)

Ptyochromis
13-03-2016, 02:03
I agree that some contact is unavoidable, but slamming into the back of another car because you decided to brake 70 yards too late should be unacceptable. Perhaps ghosting the incoming car at a certain point if speeds are >10 mph or something.

winstonmalcolm
13-03-2016, 07:09
After being slammed off the track after making a clean pass (for the 1,000,000th time), there should totally be a penalty for purposeful contact with another car. One person gets to ruin the race for many others. Not to mention, as someone who doesn't use driving aids; getting pit maneuvered by someone who does use them, always favors the aided. Speed penalties for car to car contact will inevitably force people to drive more conscientiously

Speed penalties for using run-off areas on the track being called as "track cutting" discourages people from using them and causing more car to car collisions.

I agree it's a big problem.

In order to try to reduce then incidence of this I always have full damage on as it's a deterrent.

As for a solution there should be a ranking system based on ALL contact. Individuals setting up servers could decide on whether to use it as a filter and at what level . Clean drivers would naturally achieve a good ranking over time despite the chrashers.
Also a higher ranking should mean a higher personal damage multiplier.

Shinzah
13-03-2016, 07:46
I agree that some contact is unavoidable, but slamming into the back of another car because you decided to brake 70 yards too late should be unacceptable. Perhaps ghosting the incoming car at a certain point if speeds are >10 mph or something.

I agree with the idea of ghosting when there's a massive speed difference, but your example can be flawed.

I've gone flying into the backs of many drivers who brake a few million years too early.

Ptyochromis
28-03-2016, 17:49
I agree with the idea of ghosting when there's a massive speed difference, but your example can be flawed.

I've gone flying into the backs of many drivers who brake a few million years too early.

That's a reason not to allow ABS on your tracks. ABS here keeps you from threshold braking. Either way, that sort of thing happens with the pros too. What we need, is a program that can me sound calls in judgement.....

https://youtu.be/J8NGkqCz4qg

miagi
28-03-2016, 18:34
Expecting Software or AI to judge the very various and complex situations and accidents that happen in motorsport, where often 3 experts have 3 different opinions about some accidents, is maybe even naive.

iRacing actually has a simple system, pretty much as stupid and simple as it gets. It's not a bit realistic to real motorsport and punishes ppl that haven't done anything wrong...

nono782
28-03-2016, 19:03
A simple system makes people play right eventually.
Of course it's sometimes unfair but with the fear of collision penalties, everyone makes their best to avoid harsh contacts.
Don't forget it's a game. We just want to have a good time, without careless players who ruin the game.

Krus Control
28-03-2016, 19:34
There is a disqualification system for contact. But the only time I've ever seen it was somebody had waited and crashed me out, then I got disqualified and sent to pits and they got to continue crashing. I only ask that if such a system is implemented, that such a thing is taken into account. I think the game is fine as is. Just find responsible hosts.

nono782
28-03-2016, 19:56
Hosts, responsible or not, can't be everywhere and see everything everytime.
Plus hosts want to play too.

Chap904
29-03-2016, 02:48
the other day i got hit from behind by a person who didnt brake & i got penalized

Ptyochromis
30-03-2016, 14:58
Expecting Software or AI to judge the very various and complex situations and accidents that happen in motorsport, where often 3 experts have 3 different opinions about some accidents, is maybe even naive.

iRacing actually has a simple system, pretty much as stupid and simple as it gets. It's not a bit realistic to real motorsport and punishes ppl that haven't done anything wrong...

True sentient AI cannot come fast enough lol.

My 'solution' (albeit not a very good one) to rammers is to simply host tracks and force all driving aids off. It tends to weed out the scrubs and makes it much harder to intentionally put someone off without taking yourself off.

AOD_Danneskjold
30-03-2016, 15:08
There is a disqualification system for contact. But the only time I've ever seen it was somebody had waited and crashed me out, then I got disqualified and sent to pits and they got to continue crashing. I only ask that if such a system is implemented, that such a thing is taken into account. I think the game is fine as is. Just find responsible hosts.

If a car is going backwards on the track, and they are hit, the car that was originally going backwards gets DQed.


It wouldn't be difficult to implement a system that's better than Project Cars. PCars ALREADY HAS A COLLISION DETECTION AND QUANTIFICATION SYSTEM BUILT IN. But in WMD's infinite wisdom, it's not used for anything.

Combine that system with a simple "Rules of the road" set up, i.e. If a car is behind another car on the track, and there is a collision, the trailing car is at fault. Another: If a car is overlapped for 2 seconds on a straight, and there is a collision, they are both at fault.

Then the system would be golden. It wouldn't be perfect, but a 90% system is better than nothing (and better than iRacing's, to boot).

Tack on to that a good steward / spectating system (like iRacing has, and PCars DOES NOT HAVE AT ALL IN THE SLIGHTEST), and you can run good races from here to eternity with full, happy rooms.

Charger
30-03-2016, 16:22
True sentient AI cannot come fast enough lol.

My 'solution' (albeit not a very good one) to rammers is to simply host tracks and force all driving aids off. It tends to weed out the scrubs and makes it much harder to intentionally put someone off without taking yourself off.

That is a bit of an elitist comment, not all people that use aids are scrubs, also some of the cars IRL use aids so why force them off? I just don't get this mentality, sometimes allowing aids helps people to get better, I mean you can turn them off at your leisure, it only takes a minute to set 3 buttons for TC, ABS and SC, forcing people to play with aids off on a car that actually has them IRL actually causes more accidents in my opinion.

Schnizz58
30-03-2016, 16:34
But in WMD's infinite wisdom, it's not used for anything.
Somehow I doubt that WMD had anything to do with that.

Bealdor
30-03-2016, 16:39
Combine that system with a simple "Rules of the road" set up, i.e. If a car is behind another car on the track, and there is a collision, the trailing car is at fault...

That would work for maybe 2 days until the rammers have figured out that they could get the others disqualified by brake checking them.

nono782
31-03-2016, 20:36
We have two kinds of crashers : those who do it on purpose (we could call them retards) and those who do it because they want to force their way (a bit silly but not mean guys)
Ok I could add a third category that could include all of us, because we all can do mistakes ( but in this case, it is just light contacts)
About the first category : the host has to kick them
About the second category : it's 90% of the crashers and a quite simple penalty system would teach them to be more careful.

Ptyochromis
01-04-2016, 07:09
That is a bit of an elitist comment, not all people that use aids are scrubs, also some of the cars IRL use aids so why force them off? I just don't get this mentality, sometimes allowing aids helps people to get better, I mean you can turn them off at your leisure, it only takes a minute to set 3 buttons for TC, ABS and SC, forcing people to play with aids off on a car that actually has them IRL actually causes more accidents in my opinion.

It might be but i feel that driving aids are a crutch. But in my opinion if you can't be bothered to learn to control the car without aids having to step in to help you, then you probably can't be bothered to learn how and when to overtake properly. For instance, trying to overtake on the turn going into rahal straight in laguna seca. If you can't be bothered to learn then you will probably try something foolish like that.

hkraft300
01-04-2016, 13:56
You realise assists are just assists? They can save your arse from fairly minor mistakes. If someone can't drive properly and goes at it like its NFS, assists won't keep them from barrelling off track.

Tyres ultimately have limited grip and cars still have momentum. Assists don't beat physics.

Charger
01-04-2016, 16:33
It might be but i feel that driving aids are a crutch. But in my opinion if you can't be bothered to learn to control the car without aids having to step in to help you, then you probably can't be bothered to learn how and when to overtake properly. For instance, trying to overtake on the turn going into rahal straight in laguna seca. If you can't be bothered to learn then you will probably try something foolish like that.

I'd love to see the crashes IRL GT3 without their aids on, would be a mess I think, why do you think they have TCS and ABS in a GT3 race?

Exoil
01-04-2016, 17:53
I'd love to see the crashes IRL GT3 without their aids on, would be a mess I think, why do you think they have TCS and ABS in a GT3 race?

Probably because they haven't "bothered to learn to control the car without aids having to step in to help".

Them professional racedrivers need their crutches!

Charger
01-04-2016, 17:56
Probably because they haven't "bothered to learn to control the car without aids having to step in to help".

Them professional racedrivers need their crutches!

Hahaha, brilliant.

AOD_Danneskjold
03-04-2016, 20:25
That would work for maybe 2 days until the rammers have figured out that they could get the others disqualified by brake checking them.

The simple pre-emptive fix would be to check when the person is braking next to the Driving Line / Brake Assist marks. If someone is braking outside of that, then the lead driver gets the foul.


The system wouldn't be as perfect as having a real live race steward, but if Project Cars isn't going to have a valid and well designed Spectate / Steward system, then we need something else.

nono782
03-04-2016, 23:12
Probably because they haven't "bothered to learn to control the car without aids having to step in to help".

Them professional racedrivers need their crutches!

I think they don't have a choice.
They'd prefer to have fun too.
(Even though real life assists are not as boring as they are in the game)

shaunw60
09-03-2017, 14:26
Hello - I have been unable to locate how to set collision DQ penalty in lobby setup. Does anyone know how to set this?