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Ray Pim
30-03-2016, 11:12
Ok,

I have my PS4 in the living room update on v10 but have yet to update the bedroom (as its off line) and I noticed that patch 10 has made everything look jaggy? Like the AA is broken?

So today I did a test, a side by side comparison and holy wowsers! Patch 10 absolutely has changed either the AA or the rendering/resolution or something as the difference is astounding! Patch 10 look terrible.

So jext, I checked the PC forum, and seems Many PC users are experiencing similar issues, so I'm gonna check what versions I have on my steam family PCs and test that too.. But holy skid marks, patch 10 absolutely broke something, no question!

morpwr
30-03-2016, 11:20
No problems with mine. Sometimes it doesn't download right for whatever reason. Id try reinstalling it. Just delete all saved data first.

Ray Pim
30-03-2016, 11:29
I've already tried that ;) plus a did a rebuild and checked all settings and a clean install. Even deleted my profile from local and the cloud.

Something has been changed fir sure as its affecting PC and I have a V9 and V10 running side by side and the difference is very very apparent.

I will say, I didn't notice it UNTIL I played my V9 ... So you probably just rang seeing it as there is no comparison.

Sankyo
30-03-2016, 12:06
I've already tried that ;) plus a did a rebuild and checked all settings and a clean install. Even deleted my profile from local and the cloud.

Something has been changed fir sure as its affecting PC and I have a V9 and V10 running side by side and the difference is very very apparent.

I will say, I didn't notice it UNTIL I played my V9 ... So you probably just rang seeing it as there is no comparison.
To what value is the Temporal AA setting set on your system?

Ray Pim
30-03-2016, 14:11
To what value is the Temporal AA setting set on your system?

Set to 20 on both systems.

They are entirely identical in every respect just one on patch 9 v patch 10.

I honestly thought it was me, or my my setup etc, but I have since brought the ps4 (patch 9) through to the living room and have them running side by side, even down to the same cabled.

It's apparent everywhere in game, as if the AA has been removed? Even on in the edges of Bonnets of cars etc are steps in v10.

Since reporting this I can see PC users are experiencing a reduction in AA quality since patch 10 in their forums too.

It didn't hit me right away, and in all honesty if I didn't have a side by side comparison I'd maybe not have noticed, but seriously patch 9 is stunning in comparison to patch 10 and the evidence is right there.

Sankyo
30-03-2016, 14:29
Set to 20 on both systems.

They are entirely identical in every respect just one on patch 9 v patch 10.

I honestly thought it was me, or my my setup etc, but I have since brought the ps4 (patch 9) through to the living room and have them running side by side, even down to the same cabled.

It's apparent everywhere in game, as if the AA has been removed? Even on in the edges of Bonnets of cars etc are steps in v10.

Since reporting this I can see PC users are experiencing a reduction in AA quality since patch 10 in their forums too.

It didn't hit me right away, and in all honesty if I didn't have a side by side comparison I'd maybe not have noticed, but seriously patch 9 is stunning in comparison to patch 10 and the evidence is right there.
Can you posts screenshots?

kingfuzz
31-03-2016, 00:00
I also noticed this jaggy look after update 10..guess this their way of fixing maybe game crashes..but in the end looks terrible.

Sankyo
31-03-2016, 07:31
Nothing was changed on the render side in patch 10 guys. Please provide some screenshots of the current graphics if possible, so the devs have something to work with.

Lethal 556
31-03-2016, 12:36
To what value is the Temporal AA setting set on your system?

I have always been unsure as to what this temporal AA setting was and how it effected things. Could someone please explain I would appreciate a little insight. Thanks in advance!

Bealdor
31-03-2016, 12:38
http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?45561-ANSWERED-What-is-quot-Temporal-level-quot

Lethal 556
31-03-2016, 12:46
http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?45561-ANSWERED-What-is-quot-Temporal-level-quot

Excellent, thanks for pointing me in the right direction!

kingfuzz
31-03-2016, 21:00
Nothing was changed on the render side in patch 10 guys. Please provide some screenshots of the current graphics if possible, so the devs have something to work with.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-dz2Cp12zo

kingfuzz
31-03-2016, 22:21
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kwvR0UvRDj0

Ray Pim
01-04-2016, 12:16
Nothing was changed on the render side in patch 10 guys. Please provide some screenshots of the current graphics if possible, so the devs have something to work with.

Nothing was changed, but it's not the first time something was broken or added/modified in a patch without notifying users. Ferris Wheel / Mod Support Changes etc etc etc

Something got borked with patch 10 on PS4 and potentially PC according to the users in that forum section in respect to AA.

Sankyo
01-04-2016, 13:14
Nothing was changed, but it's not the first time something was broken or added/modified in a patch without notifying users. Ferris Wheel / Mod Support Changes etc etc etc

Something got borked with patch 10 on PS4 and potentially PC according to the users in that forum section in respect to AA.
Right now we have 2 persons reporting this, which doesn't make a great case yet for the devs to look into this.

The only thing I remember from PC-players reporting AA issues is that it was related to the latest nVidia driver?

Redslayer
01-04-2016, 20:44
Right now we have 2 persons reporting this, which doesn't make a great case yet for the devs to look into this.

The only thing I remember from PC-players reporting AA issues is that it was related to the latest nVidia driver?

Well, considering the PS4 is AMD gear, it seems unlikely an Nvidia issue is the cause :P

Ray Pim
01-04-2016, 21:36
Well, considering the PS4 is AMD gear, it seems unlikely an Nvidia issue is the cause :P

Exactly!

The sheer reluctance to investigate an issue that is clearly apparent if they just take 5 mins and run v9 next to v10 is truly astounding.

Remco the PC users were not referencing the latest Nvidia drivers? they were discussing patch 10 and the thread title was, what happened to the AA in patch 10.

cluck
01-04-2016, 23:33
Exactly!

The sheer reluctance to investigate an issue that is clearly apparent if they just take 5 mins and run v9 next to v10 is truly astounding.

Remco the PC users were not referencing the latest Nvidia drivers? they were discussing patch 10 and the thread title was, what happened to the AA in patch 10.What do you really expect SMS to do when there are just 2 reports, whilst many many many thousands of others aren't reporting a problem. Until more reports come in, there is little that can realistically be done. Yes, it is possible that others simply haven't noticed it but until more reports come in, nobody knows if it's an isolated or widespread problem. You've reported the problem, there's not a lot else you can do now except wait and see if others report it aswell :).

As for jumping on the NVidia reference, I don't imagine Remco was blaming NVidia per se - and suggesting that was the fault on the PS4 - merely pointing out that he thought the NVidia drivers were a possible source of a reported problem on PC. I can't say I've noticed a change in AA levels myself but then I always run with the Oculus Rift and detail isn't exactly the Rift's strong point ;).

Ray Pim
02-04-2016, 09:26
What do you really expect SMS to do when there are just 2 reports, whilst many many many thousands of others aren't reporting a problem. Until more reports come in, there is little that can realistically be done. Yes, it is possible that others simply haven't noticed it but until more reports come in, nobody knows if it's an isolated or widespread problem. You've reported the problem, there's not a lot else you can do now except wait and see if others report it aswell :).

As for jumping on the NVidia reference, I don't imagine Remco was blaming NVidia per se - and suggesting that was the fault on the PS4 - merely pointing out that he thought the NVidia drivers were a possible source of a reported problem on PC. I can't say I've noticed a change in AA levels myself but then I always run with the Oculus Rift and detail isn't exactly the Rift's strong point ;).

I personally would expect them to boot up a PS4 and just have a look while the kettle boils. It would take that length of time at most and is a very simple test. I suspect not many have noticed the change, as its nit dramatic, but when you look at them side by side (which I suspect not many users have 2x PS4 with PCars V9/10 running simultaneously) the difference is substantial.

Additionally, the amount of users reporting an issue != the validity of said issue!

If you want I can drum up a rabble of pitchforks and screaming users from Reddit etc and send some videos and images to PRC, I'm sure I can get some idiots to make some noise once they see the issue at work, that'll be great for PCars image (again), if that's how you think issues are to be addressed and validated, you need a serious rethink of your strategy / approach to your work.

In my line of work, that's exactly what we are trained to avoid!

There are literally HUNDREDS of bugs reported in here over the year, that have been spotted by 1 user that have been validated and proven to be an issue.

SMS should learn to get ahead of the problem (prevention/proactive) rather than wait for the rabble (reactive/reaction).

Making some arbitrary rule that a bug != a bug until 10 users reported it is moronic lol

cmch15
02-04-2016, 11:55
Not noticed myself but maybe they've had to reduce AA or something else to accommodate the requirements of the combined GP/Nords layout? Like the ghosting issue at launch, maybe different displays show it up more?

If they have, I wouldn't have thought it would be included in patch notes.

Mattyd
02-04-2016, 12:45
I have also noticed the increase of jaggies in game, I have tried all sorts of settings which my 295x2 handles most of at 1080p ultra wide without too much fps drop but jaggies are still worse than they used to be.

My thought is that it has been done to increase frame rates for the VR crew but seeing as I am unlikely to get VR, I am disappointed.

maximatorstengel
02-04-2016, 22:02
I really hate to say this but the game looks terrible after Patch 10. I have been playing it with Patch 9 the night before and now with Patch 10 and the AA seems to be nearly gone. I use a PS4 and a Panasonic Full HD TV.

Why can stuff like this happen? It can not be that hard to adapt to PS4 hardware. I can understand if stuff like this happens at a PC but to avoid bugs like this is the reason I started playing on a PS4.

LukeC
03-04-2016, 00:50
I really hate to say this but the game looks terrible after Patch 10. I have been playing it with Patch 9 the night before and now with Patch 10 and the AA seems to be nearly gone. I use a PS4 and a Panasonic Full HD TV.

Why can stuff like this happen? It can not be that hard to adapt to PS4 hardware. I can understand if stuff like this happens at a PC but to avoid bugs like this is the reason I started playing on a PS4.

I must say I'm very surprised by this. I've played the game about 5 times since the patch and haven't noticed any difference in the graphics, certainly no jaggieness. I'll play again later today and come in for a closer look and report back if I see any issues.

LukeC
03-04-2016, 03:10
I'm running Pcars right now and I can't see any jaggies-- even with a magnyfying glass. I've also tried playing with the temporal AA and I don't see any jaggies regardless of whether it is set to 20 or 0. The temporal AA does look worse in standard mode than in game mode on my tv, but I don't know whether that's alway been the case.

maximatorstengel
04-04-2016, 08:21
Is there a way that the update got installed wrong? How can I check that without loosing all my saved Data? I played two career paths and it would be very annoying to loose the progress. In fact even so annoying that I would stop playing the game.

Sankyo
04-04-2016, 08:23
Maybe a silly idea, but could it be that your TV has switched to a different mode?

redruMKO
04-04-2016, 20:12
I've already tried that ;) plus a did a rebuild and checked all settings and a clean install. Even deleted my profile from local and the cloud.

Something has been changed fir sure as its affecting PC and I have a V9 and V10 running side by side and the difference is very very apparent.

I will say, I didn't notice it UNTIL I played my V9 ... So you probably just rang seeing it as there is no comparison.

...and you should NEVER have to do that stuff to a fully released PS4 game. Why can they not test patches before release? And why don't Sony start making a fuss? This is not acceptable.

Sankyo
05-04-2016, 08:11
Why can they not test patches before release? And why don't Sony start making a fuss?
Well it's still a possibility that it's not a generic game issue, but a local issue. Still only a few complaints/reports, the devs don't see the issue, Sony hasn't seen it either during their patch approval process.

maximatorstengel
05-04-2016, 15:27
I tried to change settings on my TV. It is not the solution, the TV saved the settings for the PS4. I also fiddled with the settings of the PS4, but that also is not the solution to the resolution or AA problem.

cmch15
06-04-2016, 13:55
I hadn't noticed before but when i had a brief go a couple of days ago I noticed an increase in black lines, across grassy areas and some banking. This was present in some areas before but it does seem to be worse now. The other thing I have noticed is the shadow under the cars seems to sink into the ground (I'm sure they didn't before) and the cars have like a fuzzy outline. Not sure I'd class it as so-called jaggies, but particularly in bonnet cam this fuzzy outline can be seen.

I have been through the gfx settings and all seem to be as I left them. TV is and always has been in standard mode. I will try other modes but won't be til the weekend.

Mascot
06-04-2016, 14:09
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-dz2Cp12zo

I'm not sure what I'm supposed to be seeing in those two videos you posted. I can't even tell which one is supposed to be the 'bad' one. Any chance of a patch 9 and patch 10 screen shot of an identical scene (not a video), preferably with an external view of a car in shot? It might be more obvious then.

graveltrap
06-04-2016, 14:27
I have only played once since patch 10 and suffered very nasty black lines across the track and grassy areas, a little ways in front of the car this was in free practice with the Clio Cup at Brands hatch.

It makes the game visually nasty and difficult to enjoy :( I haven't altered any settings in game or on the TV!

Shall see if I can grab a video...

cmch15
06-04-2016, 14:33
Screenshots might be better? I think any presence of this is possibly lost through compression in the two videos posted.

graveltrap
06-04-2016, 16:56
http://youtu.be/sowQzDx0zB4

Cmch_15 is right it's difficult to pick up on you tube, whilst moving anyway, pretty visible when I stop the car though. I do wonder if it's time of day and shadows from the fencing, just doesn't look right though...

Mascot
07-04-2016, 07:19
http://youtu.be/sowQzDx0zB4

Cmch_15 is right it's difficult to pick up on you tube, whilst moving anyway, pretty visible when I stop the car though. I do wonder if it's time of day and shadows from the fencing, just doesn't look right though...

Ah, that looks like a moiré* effect. I think I started noticing that after patch 10 at certain parts of certain tracks when the sun angle was low. For example, at Donnington it's really noticeable early in the morning on the grass ahead of you to the right as you go down the hill after turn one, but with accelerated ToD on it disappears after a few laps as the sun climbs. I'm guessing it's an unfortunate function of the way shadows are generated? It does seem to have been introduced with patch 10.

*Moiré effect is a visual perception that occurs when viewing a set of lines or dots that is superimposed on another set of lines or dots, where the sets differ in relative size, angle, or spacing. The moiré effect can be seen when looking through ordinary window screens at another screen or background.

Sankyo
07-04-2016, 07:42
If that's what we're talking about (the Moiré patterns), that's something that has been in the game from the start and is a limitation of the current render engine. It indeed pops up very pronouncedly under certain conditions like a low sun.

maximatorstengel
07-04-2016, 07:53
No its not this, I realised it on Brands Hatch from the start.
Now for me the AA seems to be gone.

Ray Pim
07-04-2016, 08:02
No its not this, I realised it on Brands Hatch from the start.
Now for me the AA seems to be gone.

Yea the video is not the issue mentioned, just another question in the thread.
AA is all but gone in patch 10, Remco has no PS4 so can't check but surly someone as SMS has a PS4?

Even if they say, yea we changed the AA for performance reason etc then fine, but it absolutely looks like crud in patch "10 INCOMPARISON" to patch 9.

They have defo broke something, even patch 10 and 10.1 have caused all kinds of unwanted side effects on PC with SMS having to post workarounds.

Mascot
07-04-2016, 08:09
AA seemed fine for me since patch 10 (and before). No noticeable change.

Remember when PGR3 launched on the Xbox 360? Users of certain Samsung TVs had abysmal jaggies when viewing cars in the garage, but other displays weren't affected. I wonder if this is a similar issue? Or maybe TV settings (sharpness etc)? Maybe people with the AA problem should list their display types?

(The PGR issue was a PR disaster because it was the 'official' Samsung displays that were used with demo pods that looked jaggy).

Ray Pim
07-04-2016, 09:24
AA seemed fine for me since patch 10 (and before). No noticeable change.

Remember when PGR3 launched on the Xbox 360? Users of certain Samsung TVs had abysmal jaggies when viewing cars in the garage, but other displays weren't affected. I wonder if this is a similar issue? Or maybe TV settings (sharpness etc)? Maybe people with the AA problem should list their display types?

(The PGR issue was a PR disaster because it was the 'official' Samsung displays that were used with demo pods that looked jaggy).

Na, if you look back I have not yet updated my bedroom PS4 and had V9 and V10 running side by side in same tv/cables etc.

As I said, unless you run them side by side you might not notice it if your eye is not really looking for it and / or are now used to it.

This took me a while to notice and I only noticed because I booted up V9 and then v10 immiedetely after.

I understand all the nay saying, but unfortunately patch 10 has caused huge PC problems to many with the screen resolution issue etc and many PC users saying AA is broken in patch 10 too.

Mascot
07-04-2016, 09:50
Na, if you look back I have not yet updated my bedroom PS4 and had V9 and V10 running side by side in same tv/cables etc.

As I said, unless you run them side by side you might not notice it if your eye is not really looking for it and / or are now used to it.

This took me a while to notice and I only noticed because I booted up V9 and then v10 immiedetely after.

I understand all the nay saying, but unfortunately patch 10 has caused huge PC problems to many with the screen resolution issue etc and many PC users saying AA is broken in patch 10 too.

It would really help if you would upload screenshots of exactly the same scene on both machines so that a direct comparison could be made. This would help the devs.