PDA

View Full Version : Cannot feel understeer !!!!



Mikeylewis1
04-04-2016, 17:31
Hi there ,
This is my first post ,so sorry if it is not in the correct area .
I am having problems feeling understeer when cornering .
I use gt3rsv2 and ps4 and Grimeydogs wheel settings but understeer feeling is just not there
When cornering or any type of grip feeling when cornering ,all other sensations are apparent
,kerbs ,etc but no feeling of grip/understeer .can anyone advise on how to increase feeling of grip/understeer during cornering as this is the only area that has no feeling .
Regards Mike .

Fre.Mo
04-04-2016, 17:33
Did you try to increase the Mz component in the ffb settings?

Haiden
04-04-2016, 19:02
Did you try to increase the Mz component in the ffb settings?

Try mine. The link is my signature. There's less saturation, so the wheel will probably feel lighter, but slip feeling you're missing is there. If you give yourself an adequate amount of time to adjust to the lighter wheel, you'll see there's more subtle detail with less saturation, at least IMO. The wheel will also probably feel smoother on smoother tracks, less road noise. But again, IMO, that's the way it should be. You'll still feel road texture from tracks with rough surfaces, but smooth tracks will feel smooth.

If those settings don't work for you, then simply try reducing the level of saturation in your settings (FF, TF, SG, or in-car Fy). Understeer-related slip is very easy to drown out. And you often don't need to feel many of the other forces as strongly as you think you do. :)

Mikeylewis1
04-04-2016, 19:15
Ok thanks Haiden will try your settings and post reply !
Cheers Mike

Haiden
04-04-2016, 19:20
Ok thanks Haiden will try your settings and post reply !
Cheers Mike

Cool. Definitely let me know what you think, either way. :)

Also, if your tires are cold, make sure you give them a chance to warm up. The wheel will feel a little icy/light until you do. :)

Schnizz58
04-04-2016, 19:30
Also, if your tires are cold, make sure you give them a chance to warm up. The wheel will feel a little icy/light until you do. :)
Yeah, you'll feel nothing but understeer until the tires heat up.

redruMKO
04-04-2016, 20:07
If you need to do stuff to a racing simulation in order to even feel understeer, that's a fail by the developer.

Roger Prynne
04-04-2016, 20:09
If you need to do stuff to a racing simulation in order to even feel understeer, that's a fail by the developer.

Really!!

Schnizz58
04-04-2016, 20:22
Yes really because we all play with the same FFB wheels. And we all play on the same platform. And we're all highly experienced sim-racers so we should by God know what understeer feels like.

GrimeyDog
05-04-2016, 11:54
Hi there ,
This is my first post ,so sorry if it is not in the correct area .
I am having problems feeling understeer when cornering .
I use gt3rsv2 and ps4 and Grimeydogs wheel settings but understeer feeling is just not there
When cornering or any type of grip feeling when cornering ,all other sensations are apparent
,kerbs ,etc but no feeling of grip/understeer .can anyone advise on how to increase feeling of grip/understeer during cornering as this is the only area that has no feeling .
Regards Mike .

The under/Over steer Feel is Very dependent on the car you are Driving. Make sure the Tires are Hot and that you are Not Locking up the Brakes while turning also... That Totally Kills the under Steer feel.

I have Not Had a Chance to post a New PDF but with My RAC_75 PDF Settings SoP Lat is set to 10... I Now set SoP lat to 0 because it seems that the SoP Lat takes away wheel weight and Feel During Cornering... All other settings remain the same... Change only the SoP lat to 0.

Use the latest setting in the PDF on the First page (RAC_75) With those settings the Fx,Fy, SOP Is set the way i like them but they can be adjusted to best fit what you Need to feel Most. With these settings once you have your Fx,Fy,Fz,Mz and SoP set the way you like them you can adjust the wheel weight/ FFB strength per car by + or - with the in Car Masters....The Car Masters can Even be set to Max(200) With No Clipping!!!

in Car Masters 200 and No Clipping Video! settings shown at end of Video.

https://youtu.be/u5NjaKosL1s

Edit: The Car driven in the Video is the Renault Megane.


Feel Free to inbox/Message Me if you have any Questions or problems...also you can post in the Thread... Llink is in My Signature... there is alot of Good info in there and some one is always willing to help. Cheers

redruMKO
05-04-2016, 17:32
Really!!

Yes! Really. Is this meant to simulate cars or what? Isn't understeer one of the major things that should be present from the start, without the user being a scientist / technician?

Haiden
05-04-2016, 18:05
Yes! Really. Is this meant to simulate cars or what? Isn't understeer one of the major things that should be present from the start, without the user being a scientist / technician?

Understeer is present with the default settings. The OP was personalizing his FFB, and, in the process, lost the slip feel. He's asking how to get understeer back, not how to get it in general. A science/engineering degree isn't required to enjoy the game. The defaults are fine for most. The flexibility SMS provided to take the FFB even further, may require some effort to learn/understand, but I'd rather have the option than being locked out of it and forced to take a one-size fits all, like most other games force you to do. Accuforce makes SimCommander, which allows you to customize any game's force feedback, dialing in or out whatever forces you want or don't need. Not because the game's FFB is bad; but because personalized feedback is always better. Same principle here. Don't see the problem. If you prefer the simple approach, then just use the defaults.

Mikeylewis1
05-04-2016, 20:50
Magic that's better just tried at the moment
Cheers Haiden

Haiden
05-04-2016, 21:07
NP! Glad it helped. :) Also, I used Jack Spade's in-car settings (classic) with those global settings, which were actually created using Jack's global tune as a starting point. IMO, my settings feel best when paired with Jack's in-car settings.

BigDad
05-04-2016, 21:39
I use similar to Haiden but modified for a cheaper type Fanatec.
Maybe you could try mine in my signature.=)
I like to just set and forget, so Jack Spade 66% feel good to me. You can just input settings once and done. Simples.

andywillis
29-04-2016, 10:40
Hi,

I know you're asking more about how to set up your wheel (hope you sorted it), but there's a good video guide here on understeer - including how it feels. It's aimed at real racing, but I think it relevant. It's apparently a series of tutorials, they're pretty good!

http://driver61.com/uni/understeer

Cheers,
Andy

thegt500
03-05-2016, 06:50
Understeer is present with the default settings. The OP was personalizing his FFB
A science/engineering degree isn't required to enjoy the game. The defaults are fine for most.
Not because the game's FFB is bad; but because personalized feedback is always better.

Just paraphrasing your quotes above Haiden to point out my feelings.
If understeer is present with default settings, then surely that's how that particular car should feel. A front wheel drive car naturally tries to understeer by design, so it should feel light if pushing too hard into or out of a corner. Changing the way it feels takes away the whole SIM idea.
I am a mechanic by trade and have a reasonable idea what effects different suspension geometry and tyre pressures have on handling feel. The multitude of settings just for FFB make no sense to me. FY, FZ, etc etc mean diddly squat without a proper and full description which sadly, SMS have omitted on the set up pages in game. As such, I do indeed leave them on default with the exception of SOP which I set to whatever the overall FFB is (usually 26). I don't have the time or inclination to spend hours searching for, and inputting other people's setups, I'd rather spend that time actually racing, rather than testing.
I agree, the games FFB is good. It has the best feel I've experienced from a console game, but with all the 'personalization' settings, I feel it detracts from what the game sets out to be : a racing SIM. If the RUF Yellowbird handle like a pig on a beach ball in real life, it should be accurately represented in the game and not have them handling traits dialled out.

morpwr
03-05-2016, 11:22
Just paraphrasing your quotes above Haiden to point out my feelings.
If understeer is present with default settings, then surely that's how that particular car should feel. A front wheel drive car naturally tries to understeer by design, so it should feel light if pushing too hard into or out of a corner. Changing the way it feels takes away the whole SIM idea.
I am a mechanic by trade and have a reasonable idea what effects different suspension geometry and tyre pressures have on handling feel. The multitude of settings just for FFB make no sense to me. FY, FZ, etc etc mean diddly squat without a proper and full description which sadly, SMS have omitted on the set up pages in game. As such, I do indeed leave them on default with the exception of SOP which I set to whatever the overall FFB is (usually 26). I don't have the time or inclination to spend hours searching for, and inputting other people's setups, I'd rather spend that time actually racing, rather than testing.
I agree, the games FFB is good. It has the best feel I've experienced from a console game, but with all the 'personalization' settings, I feel it detracts from what the game sets out to be : a racing SIM. If the RUF Yellowbird handle like a pig on a beach ball in real life, it should be accurately represented in the game and not have them handling traits dialled out.

The car ffb settings don't change the way the car handles. The problem with them is they will trick you into feeling something youre not if set wrong. Now don't get me wrong the defaults aren't horrible but they can be improved on a lot. I guess better balanced would be a good way to described them if done correctly. Which is why most of us use jacks settings. Hes done the work for us already and they work very well. If you want to read up on where fx,fy,mz,etc came from there are some good articles but be prepared for some reading. lol It is worth doing though if you want to better understand why its used for the game. If you want to read up on those ill try to find the guys name again or somebody could refresh my memory.

thegt500
04-05-2016, 06:38
If you want to read up on where fx,fy,mz,etc came from there are some good articles but be prepared for some reading. lol It is worth doing though if you want to better understand why its used for the game.

This is exactly my point. Whilst is nice to have the depth of personalisation, to get the best out of the game you have to spend time testing settings, or using others setups. I understand the reasoning behind the adjustability as different wheels have differing levels of FFB ability, but what gets my goat is the lack of explanations in the game menus on what to expect when adjustments are made.
Like I said, I don't have the time or inclination to trawl through countless articles just to get a natural feeling FFB. It's not the reason I bought the game, spending time reading instead of playing !
I have recently bought DiRT Rally and whilst it's a different style of driving, the FFB settings are more understandable and importantly, explained better in to what they do. Codemasters have done the hard work of what we're expected to set in pCARS and condensed it into a more user friendly experience, leaving me time to play instead of meddle !
Don't get me wrong, I dearly love pCARS but it's infuriatingly complicated at the same time !

poirqc
04-05-2016, 20:28
This is exactly my point. Whilst is nice to have the depth of personalisation, to get the best out of the game you have to spend time testing settings, or using others setups. I understand the reasoning behind the adjustability as different wheels have differing levels of FFB ability, but what gets my goat is the lack of explanations in the game menus on what to expect when adjustments are made.
Like I said, I don't have the time or inclination to trawl through countless articles just to get a natural feeling FFB. It's not the reason I bought the game, spending time reading instead of playing !
I have recently bought DiRT Rally and whilst it's a different style of driving, the FFB settings are more understandable and importantly, explained better in to what they do. Codemasters have done the hard work of what we're expected to set in pCARS and condensed it into a more user friendly experience, leaving me time to play instead of meddle !
Don't get me wrong, I dearly love pCARS but it's infuriatingly complicated at the same time !

You're mostly right with what you said. I would need to post a picture i did that translated both games ffb settings. Since i play a bit with pCars FFB, i was able to deal with Dirt Rally one in 15 mins. Granted Dirt Rally changes are applied right away, it saves so much time! :D

232639

thegt500
04-05-2016, 22:53
:Dpoirqc,
That's exactly my point. Codemasters have basically simplified the logarithms needed for FFB to be interpreted by a wheel. The DiRT Rally settings admittedly are basic compared to pCARS, but I find more understandable. I'll have to try to apply this to pCARS now you have highlighted the explanations and given comparisons that I can understand.
It still doesn't let SMS off for not doing this in the first place though :D

Schnizz58
04-05-2016, 23:34
You're mostly right with what you said. I would need to post a picture i did that translated both games ffb settings. Since i play a bit with pCars FFB, i was able to deal with Dirt Rally one in 15 mins. Granted Dirt Rally changes are applied right away, it saves so much time! :D

I disagree with some of your assignments but my time with Dirt Rally is somewhat limited. But just based on the descriptions, I'd go with:
Self Aligning Torque -> Mz
Wheel Friction -> PWM & PWMS
Tire Friction -> Fy
Suspension -> Fz
Tire Slip -> SoP
Steering Center Force -> Low Speed Sat & Coef
Collision -> Probably no direct analog in PCars because it would depend on the direction of the collision. For front-end collisions -> Fx.

I somewhat agree with thegt500 that a lot of the FFB in PCars is non-intuitive. However a decent amount of it is. For example, what could be simpler than increasing Fx if you want more longitudinal force? That's as straightforward as it can be. However what I'll call the post-processing functions like relative torque adjust could use better explanations. Even now, a year later, we still don't have a definitive description of what some of them do. And yes Codies simplified the FFB configuration but they did it by leaving out a lot of stuff that SMS included. How do I compensate for the non-linearity of my wheel in Dirt Rally?

poirqc
05-05-2016, 00:36
Yeah, it's written in the sky that the original documentation left some to be desired. :)

But at this point, i think there's enough information in stickies to have a quickly get the required information.

About dirt rally, well, i didn't spent much time on it too, it could be wrong about things.