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craste
05-04-2016, 21:44
Takes a note out of Dirt Rally's book.

Game delivered today, select Thrustmaster template.

Game works and every car feels fantastic!

Job done, not endless hours tweaking and messing in menu's!

Hope SMS do something similar.

morpwr
05-04-2016, 21:53
Honestly I don't think pcars2 will be different as a lot of games are giving more control of the ffb lately. Yes it took me until recently to get the ffb figured out but once you do its really good. I have to give credit to jack for the car settings though they really help get you on the right path. If your having trouble getting the wheel set check out the oscarolim site there are numerous wheel setups from people that you can try. Obviously mine are there for the t300 and recently some people have tried them with the t150 and t500 and said they work very well those too. Hope that helps you out if youre still searching for that perfect setup.

maxx69
05-04-2016, 22:23
I personally love the fact you have all these settings at your fingertips, tweak this and that , get the feeling you want and make it your own ,just how you like it ....instead of being a bind and being tied down to a couple of default settings , it gives you freedom .
If Dirt doesn't have this amount of personalization , for me at least , it's one more reason not to buy it .

Redslayer
05-04-2016, 23:00
Honestly I don't think pcars2 will be different as a lot of games are giving more control of the ffb lately. Yes it took me until recently to get the ffb figured out but once you do its really good. I have to give credit to jack for the car settings though they really help get you on the right path. If your having trouble getting the wheel set check out the oscarolim site there are numerous wheel setups from people that you can try. Obviously mine are there for the t300 and recently some people have tried them with the t150 and t500 and said they work very well those too. Hope that helps you out if youre still searching for that perfect setup.

There really should be a solid base set up though. I quit messing with the cars after about the 3rd DLC pack, I'd rather just run with crap FFB than sit there and tweak every damn car.

That said, just because you have a good base setup, doesn't mean you can't have the options two. I don't understand the mutually exclusive mind set.

BCJM76
06-04-2016, 01:19
I don't get a ton of time to play the game and I am thankful there are people here who have done the leg work and posted great FFB settings. That being said, if not for this forum, I would probably just be running the stock FFB settings as I wouldn't want to spend the 2 or 3 hours a week (if that) playing with FFB settings instead of racing.

Why can't hope for both options? Those who want to find the perfect FFB setting could do so and those who want to hit the track could do so.

morpwr
06-04-2016, 11:14
There really should be a solid base set up though. I quit messing with the cars after about the 3rd DLC pack, I'd rather just run with crap FFB than sit there and tweak every damn car.

That said, just because you have a good base setup, doesn't mean you can't have the options two. I don't understand the mutually exclusive mind set.

Agree 100% it would have been nice to have a decent baseline setting which I think p cars 2 will have. I forget which patch it was now but it got pretty close to being decent out of the box at that point. So I think youll see improvements there next time and still have options to tweak.

Mascot
06-04-2016, 11:18
Yep, the FFB and general control setting defaults will hopefully be a lot better in pCARS 2.

I think the pCARS defaults put a lot of new users off, and many of those people were lost forever.

GrimeyDog
06-04-2016, 12:19
Takes a note out of Dirt Rally's book.

Game delivered today, select Thrustmaster template.

Game works and every car feels fantastic!

Job done, not endless hours tweaking and messing in menu's!

Hope SMS do something similar.

Also you can Tweek and Test the FFB Right on the Track!!! Without exiting the session!!! Stop Tweek Go Stop Tweek Go Stop Tweek Go... Nice!!!

Koza_Nostra
06-04-2016, 14:28
Also you can Tweek and Test the FFB Right on the Track!!! Without exiting the session!!! Stop Tweek Go Stop Tweek Go Stop Tweek Go... Nice!!!

Exactly I love the fact you can tweek right away on the track, it saves time and you can feel the changes straight away, without having a 5 minute gap and forgetting what the previous settings felt like.

I wish PCars2 would have let's say 3 options of different base FFB for players to choose, for example - smooth, aggressive, strong etc... and as well as that, have the option to adjust the sliders yourself. That way everyone would be happy, people that don't want to customise FFB to their preferred feeling could just choose one out of the box, and people who want to customise FFB could do so.

And honestly, I'm quite happy Pcars was the way it was, because I always had a good feeling of how the car should behave and feel, but never knew anything behind the FFB. Although with Pcars all of that changed, and I have good (not great) understanding of how FFB system works. Yes it took a while, but hey it was worth it, at least for me.

Enjoying Dirt Rally at the moment, nice to go a bit off road and get the wheels dirty after one year of pure Pcars and circuit racing laps after laps. Still Pcars is kick ass :)

GrimeyDog
06-04-2016, 14:40
You can also save 10 FFB profiles!!!

Sankyo
06-04-2016, 14:50
Takes a note out of Dirt Rally's book.

Game delivered today, select Thrustmaster template.

Game works and every car feels fantastic!

Job done, not endless hours tweaking and messing in menu's!

Hope SMS do something similar.
I never tweaked the FFB in pCARS (except for turning Master Scale down to prevent clipping) and it feels great for me.

When I tried Dirt Rally some time ago with default FFB it felt terrible to me.

Which only goes to show how personal FFB really is :)

Koza_Nostra
06-04-2016, 14:53
You can also save 10 FFB profiles!!!

Very true! Believe me I wished for this quite a few times in Pcars :rolleyes:

craste
06-04-2016, 17:19
Thanks for all the replies guys, hopefully SMS will of taken note.☺

RomKnight
06-04-2016, 17:50
Well, better defaults are not an impediment to tweak if one wishes to.
I'm also pro better defaults (not that I can complaint on CSWv2 :) ) but yeah, it'll always be personal so those defaults will always feel better for some and not quite for others and then, you'll need the options we're given.

Even AC "complicated" things in this last patch. So did R3E (although, like rF2 you could always dig into the controller files and mess it up completely too :) )

What amazes me is that some think pCARS is the first one. I agree that it it is the first one put it all "on display". Also yes, a bit obscure, but think of an axis system, read the descriptions and it really isn't THAT hard as it seems to be. Quite logical even and to a degree better than "understeer", a.e., that can be one or more parameters or even canned which is even worse.

I hope SMS keeps the "per wheel" settings in global parameters and don't "hide" the options behind something "understeer" in car setups. A graphical representation of the current settings and better descriptions would be a nice balance I think.

Umer Ahmad
06-04-2016, 17:52
Got it :)

GrimeyDog
06-04-2016, 18:46
Well, better defaults are not an impediment to tweak if one wishes to.
I'm also pro better defaults (not that I can complaint on CSWv2 :) ) but yeah, it'll always be personal so those defaults will always feel better for some and not quite for others and then, you'll need the options we're given.

Even AC "complicated" things in this last patch. So did R3E (although, like rF2 you could always dig into the controller files and mess it up completely too :) )

What amazes me is that some think pCARS is the first one. I agree that it it is the first one put it all "on display". Also yes, a bit obscure, but think of an axis system, read the descriptions and it really isn't THAT hard as it seems to be. Quite logical even and to a degree better than "understeer", a.e., that can be one or more parameters or even canned which is even worse.

I hope SMS keeps the "per wheel" settings in global parameters and don't "hide" the options behind something "understeer" in car setups. A graphical representation of the current settings and better descriptions would be a nice balance I think.

I have never understood this term when it come to Pcars FFB...to me it seems that All racing games Sim or Arcade Have canned FFB Effects.
The FFB Effects are only a representation of what the programmer figured X Y = out to be....and when the Tracks are Not Laser Scanned then the Canned effects or programmers interpretation of what Bumps, Curbs etc should feel like is Governed by what rule to deem the FFB effects Not to be considered Canned? as long as the Game FFB feels good that's all that Really Matters... Just My Random thought because i Never understood the Not Canned FFB effects terminology...to Me anything that is Not in the True Physical world will always Have canned Effects because replicating things in the digital world is always subject to the programmers idea of what Digital reality should Feel like. Random thought of the day:confused: What ever the case Pcars FFB is Progressing Nicely.

Redslayer
06-04-2016, 19:01
Got it :)

:D

3

Chin
06-04-2016, 20:18
I have never understood this term when it come to Pcars FFB...to me it seems that All racing games Sim or Arcade Have canned FFB Effects.
The FFB Effects are only a representation of what the programmer figured X Y = out to be....and when the Tracks are Not Laser Scanned then the Canned effects or programmers interpretation of what Bumps, Curbs etc should feel like is Governed by what rule to deem the FFB effects Not to be considered Canned? as long as the Game FFB feels good that's all that Really Matters... Just My Random though because i Never understood the Not Canned FFB effects terminology...to Me anything that is Not in the True Physical world will always Have canned Effects because replicating things in the digital world is always subject to the programmers idea of what Digital reality should Feel like. Random thought of the day:confused: What ever the case Pcars FFB is Progressing Nicely.

If it isn't 'created' by the physics of the game, it is a canned effect. Curbs are a good example, if the effect is implemented just because you hit the curb, it is canned (and will always be the same). If it is created by the behavior of the tire interfacing with the curb, it isn't. That is how I see it, anyway. The worst recent example, for me, is the canned road feel in AC. You get what I call a constant "buzzing" in the wheel that is quite annoying.

...and as for FFB, I would like to see better defaults and a better guide on settings. I do like the adjust-ability, even if it is a bit daunting.

Mad Al
07-04-2016, 00:17
I never tweaked the FFB in pCARS (except for turning Master Scale down to prevent clipping) and it feels great for me.

When I tried Dirt Rally some time ago with default FFB it felt terrible to me.

Which only goes to show how personal FFB really is :)

the early FFB on dirt was bloody atrocious and no tweaking got it feeling even remotely good... it took from initial steam early access till about two weeks after it released to actually be half decent (not that I play much as I hate the grindy game play)

BigDad
07-04-2016, 00:40
I never tweaked the FFB in pCARS (except for turning Master Scale down to prevent clipping) and it feels great for me.

When I tried Dirt Rally some time ago with default FFB it felt terrible to me.

Which only goes to show how personal FFB really is :)

You should have a go at tweaking the globals then, because good FFB feels sooo much better than default. IMHO.

Sankyo
07-04-2016, 12:24
You should have a go at tweaking the globals then, because good FFB feels sooo much better than default. IMHO.
Dirt or pCARS? :confused: :)

BigDad
07-04-2016, 13:56
Dirt or pCARS? :confused: :)
Umm , Project Cars !
Never know how good it can get if you never try .

BigDad
07-04-2016, 14:11
the early FFB on dirt was bloody atrocious and no tweaking got it feeling even remotely good... it took from initial steam early access till about two weeks after it released to actually be half decent (not that I play much as I hate the grindy game play)
I've been playing Dirt for the last 3 hours , first 15-20 minutes running stock ffb , (plug & play) , next hour or so using the Fanatec templet , then the rest trying to tune to taste .
Well stock felt , not bad ,just put dri to 3 and seems to work , wheel didn't get hot =)
with the Fanatec templet something definitely changes , in a good way , this will be my ffb .
Trying to tune it didn't improve things .
Pcars could probably do something similar with brand specific templets ,which i think they will ,especially after all the ffb testers they have had over the last year after release .
This might actually be a sequel that improves on the original .

RomKnight
08-04-2016, 16:04
Not sure if it can be done by brand as there are different wheels with different specs in each. One good template for a T500 probably won't work as well on a t150 and I'm sure a cswv2 template won't work even on a cswv1 if you include the Drift parameter as it is different right there :)

konnos
08-04-2016, 16:16
To be honest, there are not that many wheels out there. They could make some defaults for each model and let the users modify those as they see fit.

wyldanimal
08-04-2016, 18:12
Hummm???

I thought the Whole Purpose of a Simulator was to provide the Same car feeling / telemetry to everyone.

Doesn't matter if you are Tom, Dick, or Harry. If you Sit in the same Car, you Get the Same Feeling / Telemetry.

So FFB should be Consistent from One Player to the Next..

Now, each Wheel should have a Software Driver. That Driver should be set, so it uses the Telemetry of the Simulation to provide feeling to the User.

I can see some minor Driver adjustments Per Brand Wheel.

But Being able to Change the Telemetry via Filters and Multipliers.
Just Seems so Non-Simulation to me.

Everyone should get the Same FFB no matter what.

Just my Thoughts on this discussion..
Out of the BOX, I agree it should Feel Right...
?? Allow all the Filters and Multipliers? sure why not...

But there should be a Lobby setting, to force the Defaults, so everyone is using the same FFB.
( minor, Wheel Brand Adjustments such as Gain ( Strength ) would be allowed )

craste
09-04-2016, 11:37
Hummm???

I thought the Whole Purpose of a Simulator was to provide the Same car feeling / telemetry to everyone.

Doesn't matter if you are Tom, Dick, or Harry. If you Sit in the same Car, you Get the Same Feeling / Telemetry.

So FFB should be Consistent from One Player to the Next..

Now, each Wheel should have a Software Driver. That Driver should be set, so it uses the Telemetry of the Simulation to provide feeling to the User.

I can see some minor Driver adjustments Per Brand Wheel.

But Being able to Change the Telemetry via Filters and Multipliers.
Just Seems so Non-Simulation to me.

Everyone should get the Same FFB no matter what.

Just my Thoughts on this discussion..
Out of the BOX, I agree it should Feel Right...
?? Allow all the Filters and Multipliers? sure why not...

But there should be a Lobby setting, to force the Defaults, so everyone is using the same FFB.
( minor, Wheel Brand Adjustments such as Gain ( Strength ) would be allowed )

Exactly, these people saying I tweak it to suit me are just plain wrong.

When you take a car for a test drive would you inflate/de-flate the tyres or ask if they can reduce the amount of powered assistance to the wheel so that it feels better to you? No - well there you go!

The SMS should simulate the car so it feels closest to the real thing via each steering wheel brand and set that up as default - like Dirt Rally have done.

The people then who want to FAKE feel and wrench their arms off can crack on and lose themselves in the settings for hours whilst the rest of us race.

Umer Ahmad
09-04-2016, 12:59
But we're sitting on sofas and armchairs. Maybe few of us are lucky enough to be in a racing seat but still we are in our homes.

Really how "authentic" can it be?

I know I'm driving the C7.R doing a 2:10-2:09 at Road America and there's no way it can be that easy irl. It doesn't lessen the game for me but I'm not under the impression I can jump on Team Corvette because I'm on the project CARS leaderboard (yeah, I do realize Nissan Academy take 1-2 guys every year but I'm sure the GT5 experience is physically not the same as really being in the GT-R).

So the game will produce "output signals" (sounds, graphics, FFB are the 3 primary I can think of) and allows the player to customize it for what feels better for him/her. I don't consider it cheating or gaining advantage if someone does or does not use Helmet camera with Visor and Look-2-Apex for example. Or they like/dislike God Rays and Sun Flare. Or they use or don't use the Pitcrew radio guy. Or especially FFB, the range is huge on that category I think and can even change over time for a single player. (I used to run heavy FFB but have backed off that a little now to better feel the smaller signals).

Sankyo
09-04-2016, 13:49
The SMS should simulate the car so it feels closest to the real thing via each steering wheel brand and set that up as default - like Dirt Rally have done.

Most of what is communicated through FFB you never feel through the wheel in a real car, but through your spine. Some people want FFB to communicate mainly understeer by going light, others want FFB to mainly communicate weight transfer. The FFB is customizeable because people want and expect different things from FFB.

If it would feel like the real car, people would complain there was too much information missing :)

BigDad
09-04-2016, 14:19
To be honest, there are not that many wheels out there. They could make some defaults for each model and let the users modify those as they see fit.
About 24 different wheel supported in pCars and about 6 different brands .
That's quite a few .
Actually states 30+ wheels .

Redslayer
09-04-2016, 17:52
About 24 different wheel supported in pCars and about 6 different brands .
That's quite a few .
Actually states 30+ wheels .

Dirt supports all the same wheels.

LukeC
11-04-2016, 01:35
Most of what is communicated through FFB you never feel through the wheel in a real car, but through your spine. Some people want FFB to communicate mainly understeer by going light, others want FFB to mainly communicate weight transfer. The FFB is customizeable because people want and expect different things from FFB.

If it would feel like the real car, people would complain there was too much information missing :)

It just goes to show that few people really pay conscious attention to the actual experience of driving. In my own case I'm continually surprised by how little I can actually feel through the wheel in my roadcars. Ninety percent of the info with regard to what's happening is coming through the seat of the pants. I really feel that what Pcars have done with the force feedback setup is the correct thing to do. There is a steep learning curve initially, but once you understand what each slider does the level of control becomes a good thing. I really hope they retain the current force feedback model for Pcars 2, especially since most of us have taken the trouble to learn it and understand it.

RomKnight
11-04-2016, 22:18
It just goes to show that few people really pay conscious attention to the actual experience of driving. In my own case I'm continually surprised by how little I can actually feel through the wheel in my roadcars. Ninety percent of the info with regard to what's happening is coming through the seat of the pants. I really feel that what Pcars have done with the force feedback setup is the correct thing to do. There is a steep learning curve initially, but once you understand what each slider does the level of control becomes a good thing. I really hope they retain the current force feedback model for Pcars 2, especially since most of us have taken the trouble to learn it and understand it.

Amen to that, even if Remco is ofc right when he states that if it would be like IRL there would be very much missing. I know my car wheel gives way less input than my motorcycle handlebars just for the sake of argument :D

BUT fortunately we DO adapt and learn to interpret what the sim sends to our hands and it is SO much better on the CSWv2 with tweaked parameters.
I tune myself per car/track whenever is the 1st time I try it really which is not the efficient way to do it BUT it keeps me fresh on how it works :) - it really takes no more time than tuning the temps/pressure or suspension, a.e., and it is actually the 1st thing I do because with better FFB I usually don't get "lost" in the car tuning because I can't feel what I want :)

Katilla
13-04-2016, 09:09
You can also save 10 FFB profiles!!!

Where?
How?
There is more
setting
backup options
1 car
1 race track
more options?
Where is this?

thanks

Redslayer
18-04-2016, 19:12
Amen to that, even if Remco is ofc right when he states that if it would be like IRL there would be very much missing. I know my car wheel gives way less input than my motorcycle handlebars just for the sake of argument :D

BUT fortunately we DO adapt and learn to interpret what the sim sends to our hands and it is SO much better on the CSWv2 with tweaked parameters.
I tune myself per car/track whenever is the 1st time I try it really which is not the efficient way to do it BUT it keeps me fresh on how it works :) - it really takes no more time than tuning the temps/pressure or suspension, a.e., and it is actually the 1st thing I do because with better FFB I usually don't get "lost" in the car tuning because I can't feel what I want :)

I've argued this point before (I can't remember what forums though lol, might have been dirt rally) But you simply can't experience the same thing out of a wheel, as you will in a real car. I've taken several road cars to their limits and beyond a couple times lol, and FFB simply can't replace the feeling of G forces you get in a real car. That feeling you get when the rear wheels lose traction, you can feel it before they've even lost traction, and it's not the steering wheel you feel it in.

It might be part of why I prefer light FFB in almost every game I play.

tmitch45
23-04-2016, 14:59
Its great to have the option of all the setting to get things as you want them but for those of us with little time it would have been much more appreciated if the default settings for each wheel were pretty decent to begin with. I think its unreasonable to have a car/track thats unusable until you play around with the ffb setting. For example the Indy car from the America pack is unusable with my t500 and default settings and no tuning the result is either I don't bother with the car any more or I spend time (which I don't have) trying to understand whats happening and sorting it out.