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View Full Version : Logitech G Championship Series: Round 1: LMP1 @ Silverstone



Joseph Barron
14-04-2016, 10:10
Round 1 of the Logitech G Championship Series opens tonight at midnight UK time.

Enter via the Community Events screen in-game, on all platforms. You will be driving the Toyota TS040 Hybrid LMP1 at the Silverstone Grand Prix Circuit.

Only teams which registered during preseason will be eligible to score team championship points. All drivers are eligible for driver championship points.

In the 2016 season, there are separate Divisions for PC and Console players.

Event regulations

Please read the FULL regulations on our Esports website (http://www.projectcarsesports.com/2016-logitech-g-championship-series.html). It is your responsibility as a competitor to read these. If you breach the rules either deliberately, or accidentally, ignorance is not an excuse.

TRACK LIMITS

It is critical that you obey the rules on track limits.

Drivers must use the track at all times. For the avoidance of doubt, the white lines defining the track edges are considered to be part of the track but the kerbs are not. A driver will be judged to have left the track if fewer than two wheels remain in contact with the track.

It is possible that you can cut the track or run wide without the game penalising you, and therefore your time & ghost will still appear on the leaderboard. SMS staff will review all of the ghost laps on the leaderboards. If we can see from your ghost that you cut the track or ran wide at any point, then we will not include your time in the official results.

You must obey the track limits rules around the entire circuit, but please pay particular care at:

- The inside of Aintree (Turn 5)
- The inside of Brooklands (Turn 6)
- The exit of Copse (Turn 9)
- The exit of Stowe (Turn 15)
- The exit of Club (Turn 18)

If you are unsure which corners these are, please see this circuit map (http://www.gpsurvival.com/images/silverstone_circuit_map.png).

Improved times with track cuts

If you improve your time on the leaderboard, but exceed track limits on your new lap, then your time will be ignored as described above. If this happens, we do not roll back to your previous valid lap time. Only your fastest lap on the leaderboard at the end of the event will be considered for the final results.

Therefore, if during a lap you think that you might have cut a corner or run-wide even slightly, please back-off & abandon the lap, rather than set an invalid lap for the leaderboard. Otherwise you risk setting an invalid lap that you cannot replace with a faster, valid lap before the end of the event, meaning you miss out on possible championship points.

Improving your time in the final hour of the event

If you are still improving your times in the final hour of the event on Monday night, please consider recording video footage of your lap. If you improve your lap at the very end and for some reason we cannot review your ghost, we may request that you provide video footage of the lap so that we can check that you didn't cut the track. Failure to provide this footage can result in your time being left out of the official results.

In the footage, we ideally need to see the chase camera and the TV cameras from the replay of your lap. Your video should also show the in-game pause screen, displaying the lap-time, to prove that the video footage matches the time on the leaderboard.

That's all the boring stuff out of the way now. Good luck this weekend!

Figuur84
14-04-2016, 12:21
Hi Joseph, I've got one question. Do the solo drivers interfere with the team drivers for points? I mean, if for example the best 3 times are driven by solo drivers, and the next 3 times by team A (so place 4 to 6), does this mean team A scores less points then when they would have beaten the solo drivers? Or are you guys gonna separate the solo and team results completely?

Joseph Barron
14-04-2016, 12:33
Hi Joseph, I've got one question. Do the solo drivers interfere with the team drivers for points? I mean, if for example the best 3 times are driven by solo drivers, and the next 3 times by team A (so place 4 to 6), does this mean team A scores less points then when they would have beaten the solo drivers? Or are you guys gonna separate the solo and team results completely?

Team and driver championship points work the same way here as they do in real motorsport.

If you score driver championship points and you are a member of a team, your team will earn the same number of points towards the team championship.

For example: If you win a round as a driver, you earn 50 driver championship points. Then, if you are also a member of a registered team, your team gets the same 50 points towards the team championship.

The points system for teams does NOT get adjusted if some lone drivers happen to beat some team drivers.

Figuur84
14-04-2016, 12:41
Team and driver championship points work the same way here as they do in real motorsport.

If you score driver championship points and you are a member of a team, your team will earn the same number of points towards the team championship.

The points system does not scale or adjust if some lone drivers beat some team drivers.

For example: If you win a round as a driver, you earn 50 driver championship points. Then, if you are also a member of a registered team, your team gets the same 50 points towards the team championship.

Yes I understand that. But I mean, what if a driver of team A drives the second time, and the first Time is driven by someone who drives solo (not in a team). Does the second place driver (in a team) still gets 50 points because you seperate solo and team drivers for points? Or will the team driver on second place get less points because the solo driver still has 1st place. So, do you seperate the results (and points) for registered teams and solo drivers, or do they compete anyway with each other.

Joseph Barron
14-04-2016, 12:43
Yes I understand that. But I mean, what if a driver of team A drives the second time, and the first Time is driven by someone who drives solo (not in a team). Does the second place driver (in a team) still gets 50 points because you seperate solo and team drivers for points? Or will the team driver on second place get less points because the solo driver still has 1st place. So, do you seperate the results (and points) for registered teams and solo drivers, or do they compete anyway with each other.

Like I said, the points system for teams does NOT get adjusted if some lone drivers happen to beat some team drivers.

If a lone driver comes 1st and the 2nd placed driver is actually the 1st placed team driver, the points to do not change. He/she will still earn 45 points towards the driver championship and the team will earn the same 45 points for second place.

Figuur84
14-04-2016, 12:45
Thanks for clearing that up.

Joelster
14-04-2016, 13:03
Hi Joseph, does this count as a community event towards the Community Ambassador achievement/trophy? And if so, will there be at least 20 (or more in case people miss some) in the future that anyone can join, so that new players to the game will be able to get the achievement?

Thanks

Joseph Barron
14-04-2016, 13:11
Hi Joseph, does this count as a community event towards the Community Ambassador achievement/trophy? And if so, will there be at least 20 (or more in case people miss some) in the future that anyone can join, so that new players to the game will be able to get the achievement?

Thanks

Yes, it does count as a community event. It is the first of 20 events across the year. 10 in the Logitech G Championship Series and 10 in the NVIDIA Challenger Series.

All the dates & car/track info. is at: http://www.projectcarsesports.com/series.html

Joelster
14-04-2016, 21:02
Thank you, I see there are finals in these series, does that mean you need to qualify for them, or will anyone be able to play in them? I just want to make sure I'll be able to get the achievement.

Joseph Barron
14-04-2016, 21:46
Thank you, I see there are finals in these series, does that mean you need to qualify for them, or will anyone be able to play in them? I just want to make sure I'll be able to get the achievement.

No, you won't need to qualify to play in the Finals. We just named them "Final" to signify the end of the season.

Joelster
15-04-2016, 01:33
Excellent, thanks for your help!

Vdubber36
15-04-2016, 13:31
Hi

I'm having problems to compete in the event. The event bar is still grey not blue.

Any help?

Thank you

231452

Figuur84
15-04-2016, 13:36
Hi

I'm having problems to compete in the event. The event bar is still grey not blue.

Any help?

Thank you

231452

Do you own the Japanese Car Pack dlc?

Joseph Barron
15-04-2016, 14:20
Hi

I'm having problems to compete in the event. The event bar is still grey not blue.

Any help?

Thank you

231452

You need to have the Japanese Car Pack installed to run the Toyota LMP1 car.

EMW Simmo
15-04-2016, 17:30
Hi just one question on Assists, before i read that assists would be open to users choice, but on Xbone it is set to Real...
Is this a glitch/problem because, people have tuned cars which are now useless...
Again more issues.

Figuur84
15-04-2016, 17:32
Hi just one question on Assists, before i read that assists would be open to users choice, but on Xbone it is set to Real...
Is this a glitch/problem because, people have tuned cars which are now useless...
Again more issues.

Welcome :) http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?44681-2016-Driver-Network-Pre-Season-Changes/page8

Joseph Barron
15-04-2016, 22:38
Hi just one question on Assists, before i read that assists would be open to users choice, but on Xbone it is set to Real...
Is this a glitch/problem because, people have tuned cars which are now useless...
Again more issues.

I've asked the team to look into this. We will update you in due course. Please keep going for now :)

Th3Pr0ph3cy
18-04-2016, 14:09
231620
What happended to the Logitech Challenge it's locked... any Informations to that?

cluck
18-04-2016, 14:15
231620
What happended to the Logitech Challenge it's locked... any Informations to that?Probably a Steam wobble - that often happens if pCARS can't communicate with Steam at that moment. That's not just the Logitech Challenge by the way, that's the button to access the whole 'Events' sections :).

Th3Pr0ph3cy
18-04-2016, 14:34
Probably a Steam wobble - that often happens if pCARS can't communicate with Steam at that moment. That's not just the Logitech Challenge by the way, that's the button to access the whole 'Events' sections :).

My bad... thought it was clear, cause the thread is named Logitech G Championsship. :cool: So the SMS-Driver Network with the only Challenge running atm the "Logitech Challenge" is not available... Never had this issue before and steam looks like working properly... but who knows...

bonesai
18-04-2016, 14:45
its closed, thats not a steam problem as i see. maybe becauere there many bugs and problems with the steering assistents...
no official responses ???

cluck
18-04-2016, 15:13
My bad... thought it was clear, cause the thread is named Logitech G Championsship. :cool: So the SMS-Driver Network with the only Challenge running atm the "Logitech Challenge" is not available... Never had this issue before and steam looks like working properly... but who knows...I was just going by your picture, which appears to be from the pCARS front window. I've seen that item appear locked when pCARS cannot communicate with Steam at a particular moment in time, regardless of whether an active event is available or not. I'm not at home myself so I can't check.

I'll report the post to make sure it is seen by a mod, who can alert SMS :)


EDIT : @Th3Pr0ph3cy - is this still causing you a problem? Apparently it is all working OK, so was most likely a Steam wobble.

Sankyo
18-04-2016, 16:40
231620
What happended to the Logitech Challenge it's locked... any Informations to that?

There was a server issue (as in 'crash') earlier today, SMS are working on it.

satco1066
18-04-2016, 16:42
Something crazy happend. When i started, ABS was not available even it was configured in gameplay settings.

After changing setup in garage it is sometimes on, sometimes off.
Same with traction control. ????

mangator
19-04-2016, 10:28
Hello,

Just sharing my lap :D


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kb2xwXbHiF4

ChoKpic76
19-04-2016, 10:57
Hello why the Ps4 ans PC update its 10.00.1200 but for the Xbox its 10.00.1198

Th3Pr0ph3cy
19-04-2016, 19:11
Hello,

Just sharing my lap :D


Interesting driving... I decided not to take part at the Logitech Challenge cause of the "Open Setup" and I don't have time to find out a working setup. But I wonder how this kind of braking is possible after the first s-turn of the road... I did a short test and no matter what I did, it was not possible to switch the gears soo fast from 7 to 1 and second thing, by my fastest gear switching the car become uncontrollable and the rear breaks out...

mangator
19-04-2016, 19:27
Interesting driving... I decided not to take part at the Logitech Challenge cause of the "Open Setup" and I don't have time to find out a working setup. But I wonder how this kind of braking is possible after the first s-turn of the road... I did a short test and no matter what I did, it was not possible to switch the gears soo fast from 7 to 1 and second thing, by my fastest gear switching the car become uncontrollable and the rear breaks out...

You need a good driving line, a good gear ratio and a good rhythm :)

Magictap
20-04-2016, 15:05
Mangator. Thanks very much for sharing! Was wondering how on earth you did that! Now i can see for myself, excellent driving with a very aggressive style on the car and a tune to match and support this style whilst harvesting Kers effectively. Kudos!!!

Joseph Barron
21-04-2016, 09:55
Andy has now posted the results of this Round on our Esports website.

http://www.projectcarsesports.com/home/logitech-g-championship-round-1-results

MXMike273
21-04-2016, 10:11
Finished 19th after combining times from both consoles..............pretty happy with that!!!

Gasman888
21-04-2016, 10:56
Andy has now posted the results of this Round on our Esports website.

http://www.projectcarsesports.com/home/logitech-g-championship-round-1-results

Hi Joseph, my results position is wrong I'm afraid, (Project_Sideways). Not sure how that's happened but it's clearly different from the community event results leaderboard, could you please advise/explain, thanks

Gasman888
21-04-2016, 11:14
Also, my lap was done before the final 30 mins just to eliminate that so just not sure why I'm p12 behind dabomb330 and yinato when I should be p7 ( depending on Xbox times). My time on leaderboard is 1.35.030.

Joseph Barron
21-04-2016, 15:05
I have made Andy Tudor aware of Gasman888's posts above, and some similar PMs that I have received about the results that we posted earlier today. He is intending to double-check the results later today.

Please look out for an update from him, most likely tomorrow.

Ch1ps N Queso
21-04-2016, 15:51
Beetes is in the process of beating my time in that embedded video. You can hear me say "nice" when he closes within a tenth. When he tells me he hit a 37.4 I gave him the fakest "oh congrats". Good times!

Ch1ps N Queso
21-04-2016, 15:53
And mangator is the sim racing love child of Chuck Norris and Simona de Silvestre.

Andy Tudor
21-04-2016, 18:36
Hey all,

For the 2016 season we have increased the number of adjudicators/marshalls from last year. Being the first round there were likely to be hiccups and indeed we have found one related to the PS4 results. We are now correcting and the updated results will be posted soon.

As per last season our vision is to ensure integrity and trust in all areas of both Series and ensuring you have faith that the results are accurate is paramount therefore. Please bear with us in the meantime whilst we attend to this therefore.

Gasman888
21-04-2016, 18:43
Hey all,

For the 2016 season we have increased the number of adjudicators/marshalls from last year. Being the first round there were likely to be hiccups and indeed we have found one related to the PS4 results. We are now correcting and the updated results will be posted soon.

As per last season our vision is to ensure integrity and trust in all areas of both Series and ensuring you have faith that the results are accurate is paramount therefore. Please bear with us in the meantime whilst we attend to this therefore.

Thankyou for taking the time to look into this and get back to me so promptly, it's appreciated, we all make mistakes and I'm sure you all have a lot going on at the moment so thankyou again. I look forward to seeing the updated results.

Andy Tudor
22-04-2016, 13:41
The results have now been updated in both the frontpage story and Series-specific standings.

Kevin Leaune
22-04-2016, 15:18
The results are not yet valid !

3 pilots cut and are classified !

ChoKpic76
23-04-2016, 23:19
The results have now been updated in both the frontpage story and Series-specific standings.

youre results are wrong

sonik 37.207
eol 37.225

but in youre results

Eol win 6 pts and sonik 5 points

Joe & Andy wake up
its a world championship

Kevin Leaune
24-04-2016, 00:00
Yes !

SDL SoniK - 1.37.205
Eol - 1.37.225


Then I show you the videos of three drivers who exceeded the white lines but were classified

TSRacing_Yinato - 1.37.072


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybvWGrnC3Ok

DaBomb330 - 1.37.080


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1YRXqY3vgnA

c_larkey - 1.37.296


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sgWXrSbU6EU

Thanks you

Joseph Barron
24-04-2016, 11:04
Andy and I will discuss the videos above this week, and we will update you afterwards.

Andy Tudor
25-04-2016, 13:52
We have reviewed the footage and compared with our own and can confirm that both Yinato and DaBomb330's laps are valid. The proximity to the track edge is EXTREMELY close but it has been unanimously agreed that given the position of the car and the duration of the wheels on the border that neither lines would be likely to receive any kind of formal warning from race control or marshals in a real-life FIA situation. They are valid therefore.

However, upon re-assessment of c_larkey's ghost we can confirm that the validity of this lap has been overruled by the stewards and will be removed.

The Championship standings have been updated accordingly therefore.

SDL Rotax
25-04-2016, 14:33
Joseph Barron said: "As we've said several times before, you must have a minimum of TWO wheels on the circuit at all times. The white lines are part of the circuit, the kerbs and run-off are not. "

http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=231941&d=1461355436

According to him, on this Mangator's Picture, the rear wheel is at the extreme limit of the acceptable, ok, no problem.

So, how is that ******* possible that Yinato's and DaBomb's lap are valid !?

they are at 10 cm of the white line !!

This is not possible, you have not watched the video? or there was favoritism, it is a shame at this level, in a world championship, to let something as big !!

Kevin Leaune
25-04-2016, 14:39
Hello,

I find it really ridiculous!

There's barely 2 days, Joseph Barron announces that they need two wheels on the white line and you say that has SDL Mangator turn is not valid for only 1mm and TSRacing_Yinato is 10 cm of the white line and you say it's OK ?

That does not mean that the regulation is applied to only a few people .... or rather that the regulation is not applicable for only a few drivers?

Souvenir .... for qualifying for the GAMESCOM ... You have disqualified me for 1 micron .... and let you pass the white lines exceeding 10 cm ! BIG JOKE !

So what will it be about Monza ?

I have close to 40 videos ... in the first 60 ....

As Team Manager of SDL Motorsport , we will make a decision with our sponsors and staff on the result of our participation because we can not accept this kind of error or favoristime !

232080

justme
25-04-2016, 14:49
It really seems that rules are not fair to everyone. Someone can use all assists, someone can modify FFB, someone can cut over white line etc. No wonder if there is no any big teams from other games like iRacing etc. Maybe this game isn't ready for esports scene...

t0daY
25-04-2016, 14:57
Kevin Leaune do you have nothing better to do than controlling all people that your SDL people get to the front? Leave the work to SMS and accept their decisions mate... that is kindergarten to me if I am honest... Look at your own people and how some of them behave in ESL before you point fingers at others.

SDL Rotax
25-04-2016, 15:06
t0daY, so, you agree with the fact that the rules are not applied to everyone?

there is no question of controlling the people in front of us, but all those involved and score points, whatever their teams!

We can't let ourselves be fooled like that!

there are rules, EVERYONE must respect it, and if it's not the case, sanctions must be given!

I rolled dozens of hours for the first 2 events of SMS-R, I have not validated some laps because I was at the limit of acceptability in white lines for me, and when I see this, some have right to ignore the rules, it's just disgusting!

t0daY
25-04-2016, 15:09
t0daY, so, you agree with the fact that the rules are not applied to everyone?

there is no question of controlling the people in front of us, but all those involved and score points, whatever their teams!

We can't let ourselves be fooled like that!

there are rules, EVERYONE must respect it, and if it's not the case, sanctions must be given!

I rolled dozens of hours for the first 2 events of SMS-R, I have not validated some laps because I was at the limit of acceptability in white lines for me, and when I see this, some have right to ignore the rules, it's just disgusting!

I do not agree or disagree, I just let SMS doing their job. If I have concerns I would message them privatly but I would not post peoples time and demand to disqualifying them or asking for justice. Or threaten them with "decisions and talks" with their sponsors. Hot air for me, nothing more.

Kevin Leaune
25-04-2016, 15:15
As a team manager and world champion title, it is my duty to verify that the rules be applied to everyone!

So you you're the kind of guy who like injustice?

SDL Rotax
25-04-2016, 15:17
I do not agree or disagree, I just let SMS doing their job. If I have concerns I would message them privatly but I would not post peoples time and demand to disqualifying them or asking for justice. Or threaten them with "decisions and talks" with their sponsors. Hot air for me, nothing more.


But we asked for explanations by private messages, we have no answer! I agree with you, this is not the best way to reveal everything in public, but if that is the only way to be heard...

We fight to the nearest tenth, it is easy to understand that a misjudgment as this one can have many consequences!

t0daY
25-04-2016, 15:17
As a team manager and world champion title, it is my duty to verify that the rules be applied to everyone!

So you you're the kind of guy who like injustice?

The duty to verify that the rules are applied to everyone has SMS and not you or SDL. I really think you are misunderstanding something here. Are you hosting the championships or is it SMS?
It is maybe your duty to look after your people, but not to everybody.

SDL Rotax
25-04-2016, 15:21
we don't share the same point of view, you like to be fooled, not us, end of discussion.

Dazza
25-04-2016, 15:23
they are at 10 cm of the white line !!


but there is track after the white line, rules state you must stay on the track (rules could be worded better). obviously there must be 0.0001 of the tyre just touching that track. tbh they do look over but i'm sure sms can judge these things better.

justme
25-04-2016, 15:26
The duty to verify that the rules are applied to everyone has SMS and not you or SDL. I really think you are misunderstanding something here. Are you hosting the championships or is it SMS?
It is maybe your duty to look after your people, but not to everybody.

So you are saying that SMS can do whatever they want and they don't have to follow rules that they have created? Seems fair, lol.

But anyway, maybe we could get some pictures from SMS about Yinato's and DaBomb330's laps so everybody would know how much you can cut without penalty.

E: Nothing against you t0day, I'm just little surprised how you attacked against SDL.

SDL Rotax
25-04-2016, 15:32
but there is track after the white line, rules state you must stay on the track (rules could be worded better). obviously there must be 0.0001 of the tyre just touching that track. tbh they do look over but i'm sure sms can judge these things better.

The rules said that THE WHITE LINE is the limit of the track ! And even if you think that part of the track after the white line is still part of the circuit, chek the video of DaBomb330, He have just 1 wheel on this part, the other one is on the kerb !

and if we do not intervene with these videos, the lap of c_larkey would have been validated! but this is not the case, because we do the work of the SMS team! it's fantastic no ?

Kevin Leaune
25-04-2016, 15:34
I sent emails but no reply !

The only way to have an answer and justice!

Consider the example of c_larkey if we said anything he would still be in the ranking as he has not complied with the regulation

Gasman888
25-04-2016, 15:35
The "white lines" rule is clear to understand and should be upheld imo, to say that some people were "only just outside the lines (or the rules) so we decided to let them off will bring the whole competition into chaos with people getting disqualified and saying well "I was only just out" and/or "he did it and was ok, so why not me etc" this is going to get very messy, very quickly unfortunately. Rules are Rules and should not be open to interpretation.

Dazza
25-04-2016, 15:41
The rules said that THE WHITE LINE is the limit of the track ! And even if you think that part of the track after the white line is still part of the circuit, chek the video of DaBomb330, He have just 1 wheel on this part, the other one is on the kerb !

and if we do not intervene with these videos, the lap of c_larkey would have been validated! but this is not the case, because we do the work of the SMS team! it's fantastic no ?


the rules say "A driver will be judged to have left the track if fewer than two wheels remain in contact with the track" so if there is track after the white line, i guess in sms eyes that small gap between the white line and the curb is still classed as track.

nowhere in the rules does it say once all wheels have gone over the white line its invalid. the rules say track..

Kevin Leaune
25-04-2016, 15:46
No, the limit of the track is defined by the white lines ... look to regulation

232081

SDL Rotax
25-04-2016, 15:51
The rules said the white lane is the limit, that's all. And why we are obliged to check the time for justice to be done? example: c_larkey lap time.

Dazza
25-04-2016, 15:52
No, the limit of the track is defined by the white lines ... look to regulation


but in this tracks case the white lines does not define the edge of the track, the small part of track after the white line is the edge.. if on this track the white line went right up to the curb then yeah. but the underlined parts of the rules clearly say track and on this track there is still tarmac after the white line.

TheDoctor46
25-04-2016, 16:04
^Please give it a rest mate, rules are related to FIA rules which pretty clearly states that everything behind the white line is not part off the track. But if you now want to question FIA rules...have fun w/ them :p

SDL Rotax
25-04-2016, 16:06
but in this tracks case the white lines does not define the edge of the track, the small part of track after the white line is the edge.. if on this track the white line went right up to the curb then yeah. but the underlined parts of the rules clearly say track and on this track there is still tarmac after the white line.


I do not agree, but look the Da Bomb 330's lap, in your opinion, it is invalid then?


https://youtu.be/1YRXqY3vgnA?t=183

t0daY
25-04-2016, 16:11
I do not agree, but look the Da Bomb 330's lap, in your opinion, it is invalid then?


https://youtu.be/1YRXqY3vgnA?t=183

Wow. You got from anybody his ghost to control everything?! Still its SMS decision if its valid or not and not the decision of the community. Example: It is the same for referees. Is it their job to manage a football game or the job of the players and/or fans and outstandings?

Its just so wrong in my opinion what you guys are doing...

Dazza
25-04-2016, 16:15
I do not agree, but look the Da Bomb 330's lap, in your opinion, it is invalid then?


https://youtu.be/1YRXqY3vgnA?t=183

i already said based of them clips they all look invalid, but i'm sure sms will prove everyone right or wrong.

what i was getting at is you 2 were both saying they are 10cm over the white line. again yes this is true they are over the white line, but on this track i believe sms defines the edge on the track as the bit of tarmac after the white line and going by the rules sms posted if 2 wheels are even slightly touching the track then they have done nothing wrong.

beetes_juice
25-04-2016, 16:15
^Please give it a rest mate, rules are related to FIA rules which pretty clearly states that everything behind the white line is not part off the track. But if you now want to question FIA rules...have fun w/ them :p

May be a bit petty but Rotax has a point. IMO the above link should not be considered valid. Clearly goes outside the white lines with all four tires.

SDL Rotax
25-04-2016, 16:16
Wow. You got from anybody his ghost to control everything?! Still its SMS decision if its valid or not and not the decision of the community. Example: It is the same for referees. Is it their job to manage a football game or the job of the players and/or fans and outstandings?

Its just so wrong in my opinion what you guys are doing...

Just, stop guy, okay?

you do not agree with us, so stop.

We did all this to help the community and SMS!

So stop ganging up against us!


May be a bit petty but Rotax has a point. IMO the above link should not be considered valid. Clearly goes outside the white lines with all four tires.

Thanks Beetes_juice ! Finally someone who understand!

t0daY
25-04-2016, 16:21
Just, stop guy, okay?

you do not agree with us, so stop.

We did all this to help the community and SMS!

So stop ganging up against us!



Thanks Beete_juice ! Finally someone who understand!

No i wont stop because in my opinion this attitude is disgusting. I do agree that the laptimes do not look clean, out of question, still it is not the aim that we are starting here in the forums a witch hunt who stayed in the line or not. That is my point and nothing more. And that SDL is acting like they are kings or something better and that SDL has to control everybody. Watch at your own people and others will watch over their people. Final decisions are made by SMS, that is something we all have to accept mate.

SDL Rotax
25-04-2016, 16:22
i already said based of them clips they all look invalid, but i'm sure sms will prove everyone right or wrong.

what i was getting at is you 2 were both saying they are 10cm over the white line. again yes this is true they are over the white line, but on this track i believe sms defines the edge on the track as the bit of tarmac after the white line and going by the rules sms posted if 2 wheels are even slightly touching the track then they have done nothing wrong.

For me the limit is and will remain the white line, even if there is a "part track" after, it's imposed the SMS rule. it is the rule of the FIA, that's all.


No i wont stop because in my opinion this attitude is disgusting. I do agree that the laptimes do not look clean, out of question, still it is not the aim that we are starting here in the forums a witch hunt who stayed in the line or not. That is my point and nothing more. And that SDL is acting like they are kings or something better and that SDL has to control everybody. Watch at your own people and others will watch over their people. Final decisions are made by SMS, that is something we all have to accept mate.

not giving the same penalties for everyone, that, is disgusting! So think what you want, we will not stop to want justice, not because it is SMS, which manages the championship they necessarily right !!

Ch1ps N Queso
25-04-2016, 16:27
All three videos look dirty to me as well. I don't see SDL as acting like Kings. Seems to me they've brought evidence forth to clean up some errors and are rightfully in shock over the decision to allow invalid laps.

Tone is really hard to gauge on a forum. Couple that with English being their second or third or fourth language and it's really easy to read a few lines and assume the worst.

Jan Studenski
25-04-2016, 16:29
For me the limit is and will remain the white line, even if there is a "part track" after, it's imposed the SMS rule. it is the rule of the FIA, that's all.



not giving the same penalties for everyone, that, is disgusting! So think what you want, we will not stop to want justice, not because it is SMS, which manages the championship they necessarily right !!

This championship is NOT by FIA, its by SMS - your argument is invalid


we don't share the same point of view, you like to be fooled, not us, end of discussion.

Hell no end of discussion - i can guarantee you that 80+% share ^t0daY's view

ITS NOT THE COMPETITORS DUTY TO RULE THE CHAMPIONSHIP - at maximum you can go point out that someone was offtrack - but how they will handle it is SMS's thing NOT YOURS

END OF DISCUSSION

Ch1ps N Queso
25-04-2016, 16:30
again yes this is true they are over the white line, but on this track i believe sms defines the edge on the track as the bit of tarmac after the white line and going by the rules sms posted if 2 wheels are even slightly touching the track then they have done nothing wrong.

This very well could be true. That said, the rules clearly state the white line, not the white line and the area between the white line and the curb.

Ch1ps N Queso
25-04-2016, 16:31
This championship is NOT by FIA, its by SMS - your argument is invalid



Hell no end of discussion - i can guarantee you that 80+% share ^t0daY's view

ITS NOT THE COMPETITORS DUTY TO RULE THE CHAMPIONSHIP - at maximum you can go point out that someone was offtrack - but how they will handle it is SMS's thing NOT YOURS

END OF DISCUSSION

Now that's how you make sure your tone isn't misread. Well done.

SDL Rotax
25-04-2016, 16:34
Well you know what, forget it, continue to follow the SMS team, most of those who do not agree with us and the evidence that we bring are not even in the points and they really dare to speak out .. unbelievable !

t0daY
25-04-2016, 16:37
Well you know what, forget it, continue to suck the SMS team, most of those who do not agree with us and the evidence that we bring are not even in the points and they really dare to speak out .. unbelievable !


No i wont stop because in my opinion this attitude is disgusting. I do agree that the laptimes do not look clean, out of question, still it is not the aim that we are starting here in the forums a witch hunt who stayed in the line or not. That is my point and nothing more. And that SDL is acting like they are kings or something better and that SDL has to control everybody. Watch at your own people and others will watch over their people. Final decisions are made by SMS, that is something we all have to accept mate.

You still misunderstand me but it is allright, I will leave it now :)

EDIT: "...most of those who do not agree with us and the evidence that we bring are not even in the points and they really dare to speak out..." - thats btw what I meant with "acting like sth better" :)

georges
25-04-2016, 16:38
Hello, made what maintaining, have exceed(overtake) white lines or have exceed(overtake) not lines white?

You make as you want and with whom you want.
You do not have the right to validate a tour(ballot) which is not valid, you do not respect your regulation(payment), and made for us what then?
Certain players have the right of exceeded(overtaken) white lines and others not?

Have pass of hours to see day has to run(drive) by respecting your regulation(payment), and you you made anything!!!

Say we then what we have to make

Made what for Monza? Have cup(cutting), have exceed(overtake) lines?
Who has the right to cut?
And especially who does not have the right?
It is necessary to be a member(part) of which team to have the right of exceeded(overtaken) white lines?

SDL Rotax
25-04-2016, 16:53
EDIT: "...most of those who do not agree with us and the evidence that we bring are not even in the points and they really dare to speak out..." - thats btw what I meant with "acting like sth better" :)

but it's the truth ! if you would be in our place or that of others who are behind in those who cut in the ranking you would understand but you do not want to understand, you swear by "SMS is always right, you have nothing to say"

Androphonomania
25-04-2016, 16:53
It's pretty simple. There are rules and SMS decidedly that some need to follow and some do not.
For sure this is questionable. t0day's comments make it clear that he has some kind of bad experience with SDL that has nothing to do with this topic.
Why shouldn't be looked at the laps when it is an official tournament and the rules are clear.

To prevent public discussions about track limits there has to be a reliable system to observe. Why don't they take the system integrated cutting detection?

Why do they apply different rules to the competitors?

SDL has definitely a point there. But it is the decision of SMS and if i were SDL i would no longer take part to this kind of competition.

Those videos SDL posted are not to embarrass anyone, it was an objective discussion in which SMS gave a very subjective answer with no real argument.

Kevin Leaune
25-04-2016, 16:56
It's pretty simple. There are rules and SMS decidedly that some need to follow and some do not.
For sure this is questionable. t0day's comments make it clear that he has some kind of bad experience with SDL that has nothing to do with this topic.
Why shouldn't be looked at the laps when it is an official tournament and the rules are clear.

To prevent public discussions about track limits there has to be a reliable system to observe. Why don't they take the system integrated cutting detection?

Why do they apply different rules to the competitors?

SDL has definitely a point there. But it is the decision of SMS and if i were SDL i would no longer take part to this kind of competition.

Those videos SDL posted are not to embarrass anyone, it was an objective discussion in which SMS gave a very subjective answer with no real argument.

+1 :)

SDL Rotax
25-04-2016, 16:57
It's pretty simple. There are rules and SMS decidedly that some need to follow and some do not.
For sure this is questionable. t0day's comments make it clear that he has some kind of bad experience with SDL that has nothing to do with this topic.
Why shouldn't be looked at the laps when it is an official tournament and the rules are clear.

To prevent public discussions about track limits there has to be a reliable system to observe. Why don't they take the system integrated cutting detection?

Why do they apply different rules to the competitors?

SDL has definitely a point there. But it is the decision of SMS and if i were SDL i would no longer take part to this kind of competition.

Those videos SDL posted are not to embarrass anyone, it was an objective discussion in which SMS gave a very subjective answer with no real argument.

Androphonomania Thank you, You're totally right !

t0daY
25-04-2016, 17:01
It's pretty simple. There are rules and SMS decidedly that some need to follow and some do not.
For sure this is questionable. t0day's comments make it clear that he has some kind of bad experience with SDL that has nothing to do with this topic.
Why shouldn't be looked at the laps when it is an official tournament and the rules are clear.

To prevent public discussions about track limits there has to be a reliable system to observe. Why don't they take the system integrated cutting detection?

Why do they apply different rules to the competitors?

SDL has definitely a point there. But it is the decision of SMS and if i were SDL i would no longer take part to this kind of competition.

Those videos SDL posted are not to embarrass anyone, it was an objective discussion in which SMS gave a very subjective answer with no real argument.

Yes lets transform this thread to the Official "Name & Shame" thread were everybody can upload evidence of people who did not stay in the tracklimits (on purpose or not). That would solve many things for sure.

Lets leave it here for good, I do not hope that SDL wont participate anymore, I know "also ;)" some good people in there like F1-Masa or Mangator. We will see us (or not) in Round 2 :)

Jan Studenski
25-04-2016, 17:02
but it's the truth ! if you would be in our place or that of others who are behind in those who cut in the ranking you would understand but you do not want to understand, you swear by "SMS is always right, you have nothing to say"

No its not

Just stay within the white lines and there wouldnt be a discussion. Youre just pissed because 1 of your guys was clearly (and not by 1cm but by a lot) off track and gained an advantage. Stop crying here and stop trying to speak for us all - cause youre NOT

Bealdor
25-04-2016, 17:04
That's enough now guys.
Keep the discussion civil and respectful or take it to PM.

Figuur84
25-04-2016, 17:21
As the teammanager of RSP I have to agree with the SDL guys ass well in some cases. I will not go into the details for corner cutting now. But I've posted several messages before on the forum.

The things there should be, like all assists, they aren't there! The settings Time/Weather are not clear yet to anyone, and it is different then on Time trial. Some Said they had assist, some say there didn't. Then there are all kind of 'reports' from people who say that things are not right/different
And bugs with fuel and go on.....


I'm not sure anymore what is true.....

We've put, just like the SDL man stated and did, A LOT of practice in the first 2 events. And it was for nothing. I know and can accept that we do probably not have the speed like SDL or Unity. But 2.5 seconde difference??? It seems impossible..... We've raced against ghosts from SDL and Unity, they just look like they have more hp coming out of corners.... And How we take the corner, with or without Traction Control, it just seems impossible.

I am more and more thinking there is something wrong, that its not the same for everyone (bug?). I'm not sure, not accusing anyone, but the difference seems to be too big. We also noticed it in our own team. The guys who where always fastest, are now being beaten by the slower ones in these events..... That is great for them but really weird....

I just hope to get some things clear. We are really in doubt if we are really 2.5 sec off pace... We are not sure, it seems impossible to us, but also look at ourselfs. We could understand a 0.5 difference..... The experiences of ourselfs and what I am Reading on the forum makes us think that there are serious issues tbh....

And for the guy that accuses SDL for 'making the rules'. I am sure they don't, and if sms is professional they won't let that happen. As a teammanager I understand he is coming up for huis drivers. That you are not driving with a team is ok ofcourse..... But we put a lot of Time in this, dedicated and so on. Even we are, but not top 20 yet. If you would be driving a with a team with ambitions you would understand, even more if you've put as much Time in it as we are...

Greetz

Androphonomania
25-04-2016, 17:21
Yes lets transform this thread to the Official "Name & Shame" thread were everybody can upload evidence of people who did not stay in the tracklimits (on purpose or not). That would solve many things for sure.

Lets leave it here for good, I do not hope that SDL wont participate anymore, I know "also ;)" some good people in there like F1-Masa or Mangator. We will see us (or not) in Round 2 :)

What has a discussion about track limits to do with shame?
I think you're blaming the wrong end. That competitors observe themselves, if there are no resources to do this in a reliable manner, just like in esl, is fully understandable.
This has nothing to do with shame/blame/flame...

It is about rules. If there is no one to observe, you have to do it by yourself. We are not in a game where decisions have to be made in miliseconds, like football. There is footage that can be seen and judged.
SMS brought this up with controversial statements, and this by the way why i did not take part of the competition. There is no reliable detection system and always there are doubts. It's all about, "i hope i am in track limits". There is no direct response of the game. Instead you have to watch ghosts over an over again.

SDL tried to make it an objective discussion. I don't get why they are to blame in this thematic? That is footage of virtual laps, on a virtual circuit, in virtual cars, in a competition for money. There is no blame/shame whatever theme in it. It is total understandable that they want clarification. Why there is misjudging.

Yes SMS can do whatever they want. SDL even messaged SMS that there are invalid laps around.

justme
25-04-2016, 17:25
Yes lets transform this thread to the Official "Name & Shame" thread were everybody can upload evidence of people who did not stay in the tracklimits (on purpose or not). That would solve many things for sure.

You have made this to 'Official Blame SDL' thread, good for you. :) I think those videos are not to blame anyone. If SDL removes names from videos then it is OK? Also Kevin said that he sent PM and emails to SMS but they never answered. I think that was their only way to show to everyone what is going on so everyone can think will they waste time on this or not.

But it is clear that we need some clarification from SMS. I want to know where I can cut and where I can't. :D And if I'm not allowed to cut then I want to know who is allowed to do it. At least Yinato and DaBomb330 are allowed to do it so why not everyone else?

Gasman888
25-04-2016, 17:29
No its not

Just stay within the white lines and there wouldnt be a discussion. Youre just pissed because 1 of your guys was clearly (and not by 1cm but by a lot) off track and gained an advantage. Stop crying here and stop trying to speak for us all - cause youre NOT

The worrying points the SDL guys are raising are simple,
Two guys broke the rules,
The organisers decide these guys only broke the rules a little bit so they let them off,
How does that leave the integrity of the rest of the competition?
I can't see how anyone can disagree with what the SDL guys are saying?!?!

Figuur84
25-04-2016, 17:33
The worrying points the SDL guys are raising are simple,
Two guys broke the rules,
The organisers decide these guys only broke the rules a little bit so they let them off,
How does that leave the integrity of the rest of the competition?
I can't see how anyone can disagree with what the SDL guys are saying?!?!

Yeah wel it is also not right that there are messages on the forum that we (competitors) have to point sms on wrong ghost/times. They promised to review them as sms. That doesn't help with the feelings of confidence tbh....

N0body Of The Goat
25-04-2016, 17:40
As part of a group that helped a little in verifying track boundaries last summer, after Doug's refined cut detection tweaks, I find this whole legal/illegal laps issue very frustrating/baffling.

In my opinion, the rules for laps being legal should never have gone stricter than what the game can detect itself, that way we all know what is legal because the detection will invalidate anything it considers illegal and heated debates like this one over the last day or so would not happen.

Ideally, the built-in cut detection would have been along the lines of two tyres must remain between the track defining white lines, but if the cut detection cannot do this for all cars then competitions should never have used this rule IMO. It sounds absolutely crazy that SMS staff have to manually go through all the points scoring laptimes manually to check they comply with the rules that go further than what the in-game detection can verify, because mistakes can happen and it must be very time consuming watching all those ghosts!

Most/all competitors want a level playing field, with clearly defined rules that everyone must abide by to compete, or face exclusion/penalties.

Figuur84
25-04-2016, 17:45
I do want to say this as well... I DO also appreciate the effords from sms. I don't like to be a sour guy..... For exemple, I really think Joseph is a great guy. Helped us somehow too.... The fact we are missing some answers gives me the feeling sms doesn't know the exact answers themselves..... Not sure, but it feels like that. And if that is, I have to be honest they should just tell that....

Now I'm done :)

SDL Rotax
25-04-2016, 17:50
You're totally right guys Thank you !

We want that the rules to be the same for everyone, so we spend a lot of time to checking ghosts, including those of our own players! if anyone cuts, whether BAM, Unity, SDL, or any, he must be sanctioned, even if he cut 1mm only!

We have already much work to roll properly, to understand the car, the track, trying to find any difference that may exist between the supports, we drive a lot, and it's really annoying that feeling of not being listened and to be sidelined, and we are not alone in thinking that, especially in the French community ..


As part of a group that helped a little in verifying track boundaries last summer, after Doug's refined cut detection tweaks, I find this whole legal/illegal laps issue very frustrating/baffling.

In my opinion, the rules for laps being legal should never have gone stricter than what the game can detect itself, that way we all know what is legal because the detection will invalidate anything it considers illegal and heated debates like this one over the last day or so would not happen.

Ideally, the built-in cut detection would have been along the lines of two tyres must remain between the track defining white lines, but if the cut detection cannot do this for all cars then competitions should never have used this rule IMO. It sounds absolutely crazy that SMS staff have to manually go through all the points scoring laptimes manually to check they comply with the rules that go further than what the in-game detection can verify, because mistakes can happen and it must be very time consuming watching all those ghosts!

Most/all competitors want a level playing field, with clearly defined rules that everyone must abide by to compete, or face exclusion/penalties.

it would be much easier to let the game decide blends .. impartial and simpler. you are right.

Figuur84
25-04-2016, 17:52
You're totally right guys Thank you !

We want that the rules to be the same for everyone, so we spend a lot of time to checking ghosts, including those of our own players! if anyone cuts, whether BAM, Unity, SDL, or any, he must be sanctioned, even if he cut 1mm only!

We have already much work to roll properly, to understand the car, the track, trying to find any difference that may exist between the supports, we drive a lot, and it's really annoying that feeling of not being listened and to be sidelined, and we are not alone in thinking that, especially in the French community ..

Yet you guys drive 2.5 seconds faster, whats the catch??? :)

SDL Rotax
25-04-2016, 17:56
Yet you guys drive 2.5 seconds faster, whats the catch??? :)

I don't know, you know, we don't understand why some are faster than us, especially on ps4 even analyzing like you said, some accelerations are strange, even with the same setting, we don't understand! and we are working to try to understand, to find differences, but we do not understand these differences ..

Figuur84
25-04-2016, 17:57
I don't know, you know, we don't understand why some are faster than us, especially on ps4 even analyzing like you said, some accelerations are strange, even with the same setting, we don't understand! and we are working to try to understand, to find differences, but we do not understand these differences ..

So you got the same issues with your drivers as we do? Thnx

SDL Rotax
25-04-2016, 18:00
So you got the same issues with your drivers as we do? Thnx

Yes we have the same problems, the drivers fighting for victory last year are slower than others theoretically slower this year, and we do not understand why ..

ChoKpic76
25-04-2016, 19:33
From moment or some money is has to win, rules owes be respected and everything has to be to verify most seriously possible we cannot take lightly a cutting or other one of the beginning because we shall finish with a slaughter of asshole which drive as idiots and that will take themselves for drivers to cut a circuit as we cut a pizza and that will be the world championship of pizza chef

The cuttings are not the only things to be verified, it would be necessary to verify address ip and the double accounts because asshole will always take advantage of it especially there against the watch

c_larkey
25-04-2016, 20:38
We have reviewed the footage and compared with our own and can confirm that both Yinato and DaBomb330's laps are valid. The proximity to the track edge is EXTREMELY close but it has been unanimously agreed that given the position of the car and the duration of the wheels on the border that neither lines would be likely to receive any kind of formal warning from race control or marshals in a real-life FIA situation. They are valid therefore.

However, upon re-assessment of c_larkey's ghost we can confirm that the validity of this lap has been overruled by the stewards and will be removed.

The Championship standings have been updated accordingly therefore.


Ok let me have my say now as you have removed me from this event as being deemed as exceeding track limits

1. Why did you not see this before someone else brought it to your attention
2. By saying that I have left the track but the other are board line lol 1 rule for 1 and 1 for another shouldn't apply its common sense in this review.
3. The corner I was deemed to have exceed in the real world is a natural racing line, I will stress that doesn't exclude me from the rules but the fact that 3 people get pointed out only one gets remove as the other 2 people leaving track was ok?
4. I don't like the way it was judged no fair play rule in the decision

SDL Rotax
25-04-2016, 20:50
They didn't see that you had cut before because they don't have well checked. but why you're the one to make you downgrade? well, good question, we don't know.
I'm really sorry for you, and I don't understand the decision of SMS.

SpeedFreakDTM
25-04-2016, 22:24
Until this game has Forza 4 style track limits, any kind of competition like this is just nonsense.

It simply needs for the game to be the LAW. If the game doesn't invalidate the lap, then the lap should stand.

If the tracks had strict limits, this kind of thing wouldn't happen.


In Forza 4, if you leave the track, it INSTANTLY invalidates the lap time. It doesn't hand out a penalty, or slow you down, it just INVALIDATES the lap.

Its been said before on here, that you need to invalidate any lap, as soon as the car has more than 2 wheels off the track. It needs to do this , in every mode. Free practise/qualify/warmup/ race.

It seems difficult for SMS to grasp the concept of an invalidated lap.

But it needs to be working, it needs to be correct, and it needs to be consistent throughout the whole game. If you cannot do that, forget competitions.

I also wouldn't bother using Nurburgring GP or Donnington GP for any community events, as the chicanes can STILL be cut.

Figuur84
25-04-2016, 22:36
Nothing here anymore.

Kevin Leaune
26-04-2016, 12:33
Good ... Always new Andy and Joe compared to blends ?

Why read the post and not respond ?

The community wants to know !

Yorkie065
26-04-2016, 14:27
Good ... Always new Andy and Joe compared to blends ?

Why read the post and not respond ?

The community wants to know !

Because this isn't something that just requires a simple response. They're more than likely reviewing things again, discussing a solution outcome or whatever. This will obviously alongside their schedule for the day with meetings, daily jobs, whatever they need to do on a day to day basis so just give them time, and they will post something when they have a response.

Joseph Barron
26-04-2016, 14:44
Andy T will post a comment from us shortly.

Andy Tudor
26-04-2016, 15:29
To repeat...

Yinato and DaBomb330's laps were allowed since in both instances two tires were borderline still on the circuit by (maybe) 1/4". The footage shown in Kevin's YouTube video is of the low LOD version of the car remember, not the LOD that the player (nor ourselves) would see which is more accurate.

And as stated beforehand as well - in a real-life situation there's very little chance that a marshall, steward, or Race Control would penalise you for such a microscopic, debatable moment. If the cars were more obviously either left or right of their positions then there would be no debate at all.

So please respect our decision here, it's final. And it'll be final in all future instances. All drivers should be confident that if there are more than two wheels off the track then their time will be invalidated. If two tires are extremely close then they'll be investigated fully and ruled accordingly based on the findings. This is no different to any other borderline decision in any other sport. Was the football over the line? Did the tennis ball hit the net? You may present your own evidence and it will be taken into consideration but ultimately the decision made is not based on favouritism and is not open to bribery nor external influence as highlighted in Section 4) Conduct of the Regulations. Continued insinuations to the contrary will result in penalties being applied either to drivers or teams. Simply stay on the track and all will be fine ;)

c_larkey's lap on the other hand clearly violates the rules. I don't think there's anyone that would ever doubt that. And again, as mentioned previously, the only reason this was not caught in the initial adjudication is due to new staff training. We apologise for this and the situation has been rectified and scoring updated.

We understand that tensions are high due to the insanely-fast level at which you are all competing but equally at that level we expect high standards of professionalism too. You will continue to see that on our end as you did last year and we hope it'll be reciprocated.

t0daY
26-04-2016, 15:30
Thank you for your statement Andy :)

Kevin Leaune
26-04-2016, 15:32
To repeat...

Yinato and DaBomb330's laps were allowed since in both instances two tires were borderline still on the circuit by (maybe) 1/4". The footage shown in Kevin's YouTube video is of the low LOD version of the car remember, not the LOD that the player (nor ourselves) would see which is more accurate.

And as stated beforehand as well - in a real-life situation there's very little chance that a marshall, steward, or Race Control would penalise you for such a microscopic, debatable moment. If the cars were more obviously either left or right of their positions then there would be no debate at all.

So please respect our decision here, it's final. And it'll be final in all future instances. All drivers should be confident that if there are more than two wheels off the track then their time will be invalidated. If two tires are extremely close then they'll be investigated fully and ruled accordingly based on the findings. This is no different to any other borderline decision in any other sport. Was the football over the line? Did the tennis ball hit the net? You may present your own evidence and it will be taken into consideration but ultimately the decision made is not based on favouritism and is not open to bribery nor external influence as highlighted in Section 4) Conduct of the Regulations. Continued insinuations to the contrary will result in penalties being applied either to drivers or teams. Simply stay on the track and all will be fine ;)

c_larkey's lap on the other hand clearly violates the rules. I don't think there's anyone that would ever doubt that. And again, as mentioned previously, the only reason this was not caught in the initial adjudication is due to new staff training. We apologise for this and the situation has been rectified and scoring updated.

-----

We understand that tensions are high due to the insanely-fast level at which you are all competing but equally at that level we expect high standards of professionalism too. You will continue to see that on our end as you did last year and we hope it'll be reciprocated.

OK !

It's all I have to say !

it promises great surprise for Monza !

I do not understand you Andy T!

232135

t0daY
26-04-2016, 15:35
OK !

It's all I have to say !

"...The footage shown in Kevin's YouTube video is of the low LOD version of the car remember, not the LOD that the player (nor ourselves) would see which is more accurate..."

SDL Rotax
26-04-2016, 15:40
It's not possible to see the video in better quality ? if you have the video team SMS ? It will allow us to better see and learn for the rest of the championship. :)

Ramiboo
26-04-2016, 15:48
The officials decision is final, drop it guys, move on.

SDL Rotax
26-04-2016, 15:50
We understand and we respect the decision, I just ask if it is possible to see the video in best quality!

t0daY
26-04-2016, 15:53
We understand and we respect the decision, I just ask if it is possible to see the video in best quality!

That is something big you are asking in my opinion. That would mean SMS has to post every top 20 time that "everybody" would be satisfied with the decisions of SMS. I dont know if they have the time and the effort to do that only because some people do not trust their decisions.

As Andy stated before, the ghosts we are seeing in the replay are not that accurate compared to those they have. We got the same "problem" with our replay system. They are sometimes way off, might be the same issue there too.

Gasman888
26-04-2016, 16:01
The problem is Andy t already acknowledged that the 2 guys were outside the white lines, he then said because it was only slightly that's ok, so now the rules of the competition are what? The number of fast laps I didn't finish because I was slightly outside the lines was quite a few, maybe I should have let them stand and finish higher but I thought I would have been disqualified, or maybe I wouldn't have it depends on SMS having a discussion and deciding if they want to disqualify me or not it would seem.

SDL Rotax
26-04-2016, 16:04
That's the problem Gasman888, we really don't know the "tolérance", and it should not be..

But I think that in the future it would be good also for people who cut, to see SMS images showing their cutting.
The organizers of the France championship Forza Motorsport shows screenshots of people who are involved in cutting, accidents ..
I just think it's a good idea for the future, and it does not seem insurmountable to me. :)

Gasman888
26-04-2016, 16:11
Well it is what it is I suppose, quite surprised and disappointed to be honest but heyho, it will be interesting to see what happens in the nvidia championship because it looks like a lot of people are cutting from the ghosts I've seen, but then again SMS have different ghosts to what we do it would seem so who knows lol

Androphonomania
26-04-2016, 16:35
What do we learn. Borderline cutting is ok. Thanks for clarification... I dont think that the comment of Andy helped in any way. He wants to respect a proven wrong decision. That is against the own set rules.

I really look forward to the reactions on the next events.
That's the only interesting thing in this event. No respect for this decision by me. White lines are white lines. Doesnt matter if it is 1cm or 2m.
I think Nobody of the goat summed it up perfectly.


In my opinion, the rules for laps being legal should never have gone stricter than what the game can detect itself, that way we all know what is legal because the detection will invalidate anything it considers illegal and heated debates like this one over the last day or so would not happen.

Ideally, the built-in cut detection would have been along the lines of two tyres must remain between the track defining white lines, but if the cut detection cannot do this for all cars then competitions should never have used this rule IMO. It sounds absolutely crazy that SMS staff have to manually go through all the points scoring laptimes manually to check they comply with the rules that go further than what the in-game detection can verify, because mistakes can happen and it must be very time consuming watching all those ghosts!

Most/all competitors want a level playing field, with clearly defined rules that everyone must abide by to compete, or face exclusion/penalties.

c_larkey
26-04-2016, 16:44
To repeat...

Yinato and DaBomb330's laps were allowed since in both instances two tires were borderline still on the circuit by (maybe) 1/4". The footage shown in Kevin's YouTube video is of the low LOD version of the car remember, not the LOD that the player (nor ourselves) would see which is more accurate.

And as stated beforehand as well - in a real-life situation there's very little chance that a marshall, steward, or Race Control would penalise you for such a microscopic, debatable moment. If the cars were more obviously either left or right of their positions then there would be no debate at all.

So please respect our decision here, it's final. And it'll be final in all future instances. All drivers should be confident that if there are more than two wheels off the track then their time will be invalidated. If two tires are extremely close then they'll be investigated fully and ruled accordingly based on the findings. This is no different to any other borderline decision in any other sport. Was the football over the line? Did the tennis ball hit the net? You may present your own evidence and it will be taken into consideration but ultimately the decision made is not based on favouritism and is not open to bribery nor external influence as highlighted in Section 4) Conduct of the Regulations. Continued insinuations to the contrary will result in penalties being applied either to drivers or teams. Simply stay on the track and all will be fine ;)

c_larkey's lap on the other hand clearly violates the rules. I don't think there's anyone that would ever doubt that. And again, as mentioned previously, the only reason this was not caught in the initial adjudication is due to new staff training. We apologise for this and the situation has been rectified and scoring updated.

We understand that tensions are high due to the insanely-fast level at which you are all competing but equally at that level we expect high standards of professionalism too. You will continue to see that on our end as you did last year and we hope it'll be reciprocated.

I respect the decision of my lap in being removed but boarder line goes through I don't understand that judgment and also you have blamed traning for it not being seen in such a high level of competition errors and things being missed should not happen, that's all from me now. But I will be viewing other people's laps from now on myself as well

Androphonomania
26-04-2016, 17:06
Dont do their job. Doesnt matter. Andy clearly stated, they decide whats in and whats not. It is their observation system with their ruling. Borderline is ok, if SMS thinks. Comparing it to spontanoes decisions made in sports...(And even those have faster and more reliable ways to correct a white line decision)

VR_Green
26-04-2016, 17:45
If you want to see the ghost car more clearly in the replay....when you are in photo mode....the menu on the left hand side.....last setting (field of view i think) - set to MINIMUM. the ghost image will become more visible. It is still transparent but you will be able to move around the car and zoom in to see the position of the wheels with much much more detail - oh and i am on the ps4 so not sure if its the same on other platforms.

not tried - but wonder if changing your field of view settings from the options menu would do the same thing

Dazza
26-04-2016, 23:43
The problem is Andy t already acknowledged that the 2 guys were outside the white lines, he then said because it was only slightly that's ok, so now the rules of the competition are what? The number of fast laps I didn't finish because I was slightly outside the lines was quite a few, maybe I should have let them stand and finish higher but I thought I would have been disqualified, or maybe I wouldn't have it depends on SMS having a discussion and deciding if they want to disqualify me or not it would seem.

i think andy needs to clarify/help ppl understand the rules. the way i read them is exactly like they are written. 2 wheels have to remain on track, so like i have written before on this track i think sms are including the bit of track after the white line.

others believe the rules are 2 wheels have to remain on white line, they believe the bit of track after the white line is not allowed.

Kevin Leaune
27-04-2016, 01:26
It is not allowed after the white line ! The regulation is VERY clear!

justme
27-04-2016, 06:50
So it is allowed to cut if it is just a tiny bit? This is really crazy and effective way to drop down big teams from this competition. I wonder how long SDL and other big teams will continue with this madness. Andy said that they was over line but they was just a little so it is OK. I made couple times that would get me into TOP20 but I was just a slightly (what is the limit???) over the lines so I didin't save my laps... So yeah, this is lottery who is inside and who is not. I think I'm out of this even before it really started, very good job SMS! :cool: No wonder that we didn't see teams like Team Redline etc, they are playing much better organized events so good for them that they are not wasting time to this, time to move for me too!

saidur9
28-04-2016, 10:26
We have reviewed the footage and compared with our own and can confirm that both Yinato and DaBomb330's laps are valid. The proximity to the track edge is EXTREMELY close but it has been unanimously agreed that given the position of the car and the duration of the wheels on the border that neither lines would be likely to receive any kind of formal warning from race control or marshals in a real-life FIA situation. They are valid therefore.

However, upon re-assessment of c_larkey's ghost we can confirm that the validity of this lap has been overruled by the stewards and will be removed.

The Championship standings have been updated accordingly therefore.
Real-life FIA rules are different to one of this Esport though, would be IMO much better if FIA rules were implemented though. FIA you only need to have part of one wheel on track and only really get penalised if you have deemed to gain an advantage.