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Natero14
27-04-2016, 11:50
Hi, my name is Nate and I have a quick question about downforce. What is it measured in? For example my favorite car the 2016 Ford Fusion Stock Car has a 4.0 Front and 8.0 Rear. Is that mm, Angle, or what? I don't think it's inches because everything else is metric. It would help when I make setups because I wanted to make the Ford Stock Car as close as a NASCAR as possible because 1. it's an ARCA car and 2. just too see how close I can get it. Thanks for the help.

Invincible
27-04-2016, 11:57
Hi, my name is Nate and I have a quick question about downforce. What is it measured in? For example my favorite car the 2016 Ford Fusion Stock Car has a 4.0 Front and 8.0 Rear. Is that mm, Angle, or what? I don't think it's inches because everything else is metric. It would help when I make setups because I wanted to make the Ford Stock Car as close as a NASCAR as possible because 1. it's an ARCA car and 2. just too see how close I can get it. Thanks for the help.

It's not a specific value. It is more like 0 = lowest and 8 (or more) = highest. But it still doesn't mean the 0 has to be zero downforce.
Some cars, Formula A for example, produce more downforce on their lowest (=0) setting than other cars on their highest.

AndrexUK
27-04-2016, 13:06
I think some cars are different, some are just 'Notches' on the frame, and just the numerical range as mentioned above. But on other cars, it may have something to do with the angle of the wing, compared to the road (not flat as in parallel to the ground). Maybe not so much measured in a value such as Degrees, but looking at the rear wing of the Ginetta GT3, it can go into a Negative value (and I doubt many drivers would want the rear end taking off...). So I think it must be in relation to how the angle of the wing compared to the road.
So although the value is -1.5 on the rear, it may actually just be at the same angle as the airflow (resulting in 0 downforce), but there is an angle comparing the wing to the road.

But since I don't see other cars giving the (-ve) option I'm not 100% sure.

Rambo_Commando
27-04-2016, 13:43
Downforce by itself is measured in lbs. To achieve the desired downforce you will adjust the wings by either angle or clicks in real life. I think Pcars uses the "click" or notches approach.

Bealdor
27-04-2016, 13:50
Downforce by itself is measured in lbs. To achieve the desired downforce you will adjust the wings by either angle or clicks in real life. I think Pcars uses the "click" or notches approach.

Since it's a force it's measured in lbf or N. :p

Jussi Viljami Karjalainen
27-04-2016, 15:11
Most of the time it's just an abstract setting, on some (I think the G55 GT3 might be one) it's an angle. Almost never does the minimum value on the slider mean "0 downforce" or "no downforce", the G55 GT3 for example produces downforce at the rear even when the wing is set to -2.5, it only means it's producing the least downforce that the setting ranges allow.

havocc
27-04-2016, 15:21
Question for WMD ppl, are visible DF/camber settings planned for PCars 2?

kevin kirk
27-04-2016, 15:31
Certianly not a ARCA car because it has far to much power and torque

Invincible
27-04-2016, 15:32
Question for WMD ppl, are visible DF/camber settings planned for PCars 2?

At least camber is already visible on non-open-wheel cars.
But I don't know if there are plans regarding DF settings or visual camber on open wheel cars.

Natero14
27-04-2016, 15:48
Certianly not a ARCA car because it has far to much power and torque Then what is it? It most certainly is not NASCAR looking at what they allow you to touch. NASCAR does not mandate cambers and Ride heights are no where near close. As well as visually it has one Support post versus 3 and many more differences but I figured it was Arca because of many similarities but Horsepower and torque was something I never thought of. Probably should've though. Thanks though so it has no height or anything as far Downforce goes? So how would you simulate NASCAR aero rules? I have a Watkins Glen setup that mirrors a NASCAR setup (tire pressure, camber except rear, gear ratio's, spring rate, erc.) on everything but the Downforce. It is amazingly fun but I know something is off with downforce.

Natero14
27-04-2016, 15:49
It's not a specific value. It is more like 0 = lowest and 8 (or more) = highest. But it still doesn't mean the 0 has to be zero downforce.
Some cars, Formula A for example, produce more downforce on their lowest (=0) setting than other cars on their highest.
Thank you that makes much more sense.

kevin kirk
27-04-2016, 15:59
Then what is it? It most certainly is not NASCAR looking at what they allow you to touch. NASCAR does not mandate cambers and Ride heights are no where near close. As well as visually it has one Support post versus 3 and many more differences but I figured it was Arca because of many similarities but Horsepower and torque was something I never thought of. Probably should've though. Thanks though so it has no height or anything as far Downforce goes? So how would you simulate NASCAR aero rules? I have a Watkins Glen setup that mirrors a NASCAR setup (tire pressure, camber except rear, gear ratio's, spring rate, erc.) on everything but the Downforce. It is amazingly fun but I know something is off with downforce.
.....My understanding is its just some sort of ford stock car. I sure someone else can give you a better answer to as if its based off of a certian years model and how the need to avoid the nascar license effect it.

Mahjik
27-04-2016, 16:56
Question for WMD ppl, are visible DF/camber settings planned for PCars 2?

FWIW, there was a discussion about more visible DF numbers for pCARS1. In the end, it didn't seem to make sense as 90% of the users wouldn't necessarily be able to do anything with it. The relevant information is which is greater or less downforce and that is achieved with the basic numbers being used. What you don't have is how much of an increment it is between two numbers but again, it would be hard for most people to be able to do anything with that data other than "try it out".

Jussi Viljami Karjalainen
27-04-2016, 17:08
FWIW, there was a discussion about more visible DF numbers for pCARS1. In the end, it didn't seem to make sense as 90% of the users wouldn't necessarily be able to do anything with it. The relevant information is which is greater or less downforce and that is achieved with the basic numbers being used. What you don't have is how much of an increment it is between two numbers but again, it would be hard for most people to be able to do anything with that data other than "try it out".I think he may have meant "visual", as in you'd see the angle of the rear wing change on track depending on your settings etc.

And honestly, I only need two numbers: Total downforce at speed X and front/rear bias. Adding drag to on top of that would be a consideration, but those two are the big ones.

Invincible
27-04-2016, 17:09
FWIW, there was a discussion about more visible DF numbers for pCARS1. In the end, it didn't seem to make sense as 90% of the users wouldn't necessarily be able to do anything with it. The relevant information is which is greater or less downforce and that is achieved with the basic numbers being used. What you don't have is how much of an increment it is between two numbers but again, it would be hard for most people to be able to do anything with that data other than "try it out".

No, I think he meant the different setting being visually reflected on the car itself. So low DF setting= low angle, high DF setting= higher angle of the wing. So you can see the difference in DF setup on two identical cars on track.

Edit: Jussi'd

Natero14
27-04-2016, 17:47
.....My understanding is its just some sort of ford stock car. I sure someone else can give you a better answer to as if its based off of a certian years model and how the need to avoid the nascar license effect it. I know it's the model NASCAR uses currently just some tweaks is all. Where it is used beyond me now. lol Like
your photo by the way

hkraft300
27-04-2016, 23:26
FWIW, there was a discussion about more visible DF numbers for pCARS1. In the end, it didn't seem to make sense as 90% of the users wouldn't necessarily be able to do anything with it. The relevant information is which is greater or less downforce and that is achieved with the basic numbers being used. What you don't have is how much of an increment it is between two numbers but again, it would be hard for most people to be able to do anything with that data other than "try it out".

With something like down force I suppose its OK. But increments in newtons would also do as something like down force is relative. I hope pcars retains the current setup sliders with the numbers and units though.
Here's why: I gave Seb Loeb Rally a crack the other night and the setup page just had +/- sliders with no numbers and units. Had no idea what was going on!

N0body Of The Goat
28-04-2016, 06:07
One car in pCARS that I believe does have a true "zero downforce" front wing is the Formula C.

Rambo_Commando
29-04-2016, 02:44
One car in pCARS that I believe does have a true "zero downforce" front wing is the Formula C.

What leads you to that conclusion?

N0body Of The Goat
29-04-2016, 09:03
What leads you to that conclusion?

My bad memory of the car's development in WMD days.;)

Jussi Viljami Karjalainen
29-04-2016, 17:47
Ah yes, the wings are at 0 df at minimum, if A.J. didn't adjust it after that comment. The underbody will still be developing DF though. =)