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Alan Dallas
02-05-2016, 23:39
I'm surprised no one started a topic here on this. Official Announcement made on the 28th April: http://www.forzamotorsport.net/en-us/news/fm6_apex_beta_announce

The bit that got my attention:

As development continues, players can expect to see updates and improvements to the game.

For example, wheel support is coming to Forza Motorsport 6: Apex and Turn 10 is busy working to ensure that Apex delivers the kind of wheel support, performance, and features that racing fans expect from a range of available hardware. In addition we plan to support additional features that we know are important to PC gamers, such as the ability to disable Vsync and an in-app framerate counter.

So much for that "No wheel support." comment when it was first announced. :D Glad they'll be catering a bit more to the PC Gamer crowd. All that's left now is to see how they compare to the big dogs of PC Sim racing. <-{Meaning I'm aching to try it.}.

girlracerTracey
03-05-2016, 08:14
Thanks for posting. I was wondering when Microsoft were going to release this..

I purchased Forza 6 on xbox one a month or so ago out of curiousity and if you have space on your windows 10 h/d I would recommend giving it a go.. Handling at first feels a little odd after a diet of Project CARS, R3E, rfactor 2 and Assetto Corsa but my advice is persevere and you will grow to enjoy it. In it's own way it's very challenging to drive fast.. that's my personal take anyway. And it now has Brands Hatch Grand Prix circuit which as you all know absolutely rocks.. ;)

Better with a wheel with all assists turned off for me but many people love it with a gamepad also..

grT

bporion
03-05-2016, 20:23
And its free if you have Windows 10 ! My favorite kind of game .

Interchangeable
05-05-2016, 15:26
This is out on the Windows Store for anyone interested!

AbeWoz
05-05-2016, 15:33
still no wheel support

bporion
05-05-2016, 19:55
still no wheel support
I'm surprised about that , for me it is a rush job . If you are putting out a racing game on PC you are now playing whit the big boys ! If you are a serious SIM racer you got to have a wheel ! But hey its free and it looks like they will ad wheel support later so .....

beetes_juice
05-05-2016, 20:54
Wheel support is being added in a future update for Apex

Jussi Viljami Karjalainen
05-05-2016, 21:09
This is out on the Windows Store for anyone interested!I really have to wonder why they went that way. I'm quite interested in trying this out, but having to download it as an app? Installing it in a generic app folder instead of actually being in control? Really surprised they went this route.

bporion
06-05-2016, 00:23
I tried to downloaded 3 times and it dosent work ! 3 strikes and your out ! I guess I'm stuck whit Pcars :-)

beetes_juice
06-05-2016, 00:28
Anyone have any luck with recording gameplay? Shadowplay does not seem to want to record this game, even with desktop mode enabled.

Does look pretty with everything maxed out.:D Still FM though...:(

Cheesenium
06-05-2016, 05:25
I gave it a go, Microsoft Store is surprisingly less pain in the butt than I had expected. Looks too much like App store though.

Still, I am pleasantly surprised. I am not expecting pcars level sort of quality but it isnt exactly a shoddy port since the game runs pretty well and looks quite good visually, especially rain and night.

Not sure whats up with the game, the physics felt a lot better on a controller than Forza 6 on Xbox when I tried it in the store demo units. The cars doesnt feel as brick like and understeer. There are some considerable difference between different car's handling, not as pronounced as pcars.

Pros:
+ Runs quite well on my PC, mobile i7 and 880M
+ The small selection of cars is not too bad as it is a good variety of cars with spreading the car list too thin with many classes
+ Visually, it looks good, really good
+ Car details are also really good
+ The menu design is pleasant to use
+ Surprisingly well polished game

Cons:
- Seriously, 6 tracks are way too little
- The graphical options are too limited
- I have graphics flickering, known issue according to Turn 10
- Not full fledged Forza game, I would pay $60 for it really
- Windows Store really still needs work, please dont be another iTunes 2.0
- the car classes are awful, why is a La Ferrari racing with a LMP1? Or a Huracan with GT3s?

Interchangeable
06-05-2016, 09:33
I really have to wonder why they went that way. I'm quite interested in trying this out, but having to download it as an app? Installing it in a generic app folder instead of actually being in control? Really surprised they went this route.

Yes you download it as app. You can control which drive the Windows Store installs apps on to, windows settings, storage (windows 10), however it installs into a windows app folder.

Jussi Viljami Karjalainen
06-05-2016, 09:39
Yes you download it as app. You can control which drive the Windows Store installs apps on to, windows settings, storage (windows 10), however it installs into a windows app folder.Yes, I know you can control what drive you install it to, but that's like the absolute bare minimum amount of control I want over it.

EDIT: Installed fine, just tried to run it: Says I have incompatible GPU drivers... What the heck? =)

Interchangeable
06-05-2016, 10:02
Yes, I know you can control what drive you install it to, but that's like the absolute bare minimum amount of control I want over it.

EDIT: Installed fine, just tried to run it: Says I have incompatible GPU drivers... What the heck? =) Did you download the latest 365.10 NVidia driver?

Jussi Viljami Karjalainen
06-05-2016, 12:01
Did you download the latest 365.10 NVidia driver?Yes, had to uninstall it and reinstall it for the game to work (no-other game had complained).

Could be a fun game, but they've totally sabotaged it via ENDLESS UNSKIPPABLE CUTSCENES and ruined keyboard controls (countersteer is infinitely faster than regular steer, no matter how lightly you tap it in a slide the car will shoot around the other way). Now it's just an exercise in frustration.

Boskapongen
06-05-2016, 12:11
I had to run in 1080P and medium details to get nice FPS-flow.... guess my hardware is to weak(joke). It runs much better on the Xbox One that costs a fifth of my PC... I blame Beta.

Mark Silcock
06-05-2016, 12:34
Yes, had to uninstall it and reinstall it for the game to work (no-other game had complained).

Could be a fun game, but they've totally sabotaged it via ENDLESS UNSKIPPABLE CUTSCENES and ruined keyboard controls (countersteer is infinitely faster than regular steer, no matter how lightly you tap it in a slide the car will shoot around the other way). Now it's just an exercise in frustration.

Why are they unskippable? Maybe the very first time they aren't but they are afterwards, even the pre race scenes are skippable.

Agree the countersteer (even will all assists off) is a bit strong, my 360 controller is a bit tired and twitchy so I have had some massive tank slappers!

Jussi Viljami Karjalainen
06-05-2016, 12:59
Why are they unskippable? Maybe the very first time they aren't but they are afterwards, even the pre race scenes are skippable.At least the ones where your car pulls into the pits isn't skippable, my Enter button knows this all too well.

beetes_juice
06-05-2016, 13:04
Many FM users are aware but if not or are having issues with the controller:


Changing all of the deadzone settings to 0 for inside and 100 for outside.

Standard change in almost all FM games. Helps a great deal.

*Anyone catch the micro-transactions?

Boskapongen
06-05-2016, 13:21
At least the ones where your car pulls into the pits isn't skippable, my Enter button knows this all too well.

Not skippable, is like that on Xb1 aswell.

Boskapongen
06-05-2016, 13:22
Many FM users are aware but if not or are having issues with the controller:



Standard change in almost all FM games. Helps a great deal.

*Anyone catch the micro-transactions?

Also try change simulation/normal, makes difference on controller.
NOTE You change this before a race under ASSISTS.

Forza has always been faster with controller compared to wheel.

Roger Prynne
06-05-2016, 13:28
I don't have a controller, so that counts me out.
Couldn't drive with a controller anyway.

Interchangeable
06-05-2016, 14:08
*Anyone catch the micro-transactions? Properly do to with the "Medal" stuff. Pay us Ģ10 and a get X amounts of medals so you don't have to grind through the career mode to unlock cars.

Cheesenium
06-05-2016, 14:35
Properly do to with the "Medal" stuff. Pay us Ģ10 and a get X amounts of medals so you don't have to grind through the career mode to unlock cars.

All I saw was early unlocks, like pay 99 cents to get this car early.

Still, does the full Forza 6 game has any options to limit cars to certain classes? Like the BTCC only race with other BTCCs, not with super cars like Huracan?

Jussi Viljami Karjalainen
07-05-2016, 16:24
I'm going to say that this was the worst racing game I've played since NFS: Carbon, which made me so angry that I almost broke the frame of my bed with a hammer. This wasn't quite that bad and I gave up before it got there though. Reasons are numerous. These are with varying levels of assists, though usually minimal, like ABS in cars that lock up instantly and traction control in ones that just spin the tyres and won't stop at all, and almost always with "simulation" steering:

-It's installed as a f*cking app. Microsoft: DO NOT FORCE US TO INSTALL FULL GAMES LIKE APPS.

-The f*cking endless amount of cut scenes and voice overs. All over the place. A lot of which you can't skip, and even the ones that you can still delaying things. Especial hatred reserved for the "pull into and out of pits" animations that are unskippable and 1000% useless garbage that just slows everything down.

-Driving physics are neither arcade enough to be fun and enjoyable, like the better NFS games can manage, nor are they in any way simmy or convincing enough to be engaging like actual sims can manage. Plus the game keeps referencing to itself as an in-depth simulator, so if I were to judge it by how it calls itself, I'd call the physics shit. The grip of the tyres is really inconsistent, they either grip way too much or end up in nigh endless slides seemingly randomly, braking especially is really inconsistent. On a track with a flat and long braking zone from a high speed I did a test: Braking at a specific marker the car came to a full stop a bit before the corner entrance (so braking point was too early). Braking 5-8 meters later caused the car to go 15 meter past the corner (so braking point was too late). The only way to get the car to stop at a "proper" distance was to brake early, but modulate as well. This was with ABS on so locking of tyres couldn't be the cause. Overall the sliding characteristics of the tyres felt really odd and the cars just responded in ways I wasn't expecting them to.

-AWD cars felt just like RWD cars, except like there was something wrong with them. FWD cars surprisingly felt the most convincing, and I even almost enjoyed the BTCC Civic.

-Water... It barely had an effect on handling, at least one that felt natural, and the lakes on the track didn't really cause "aquaplaning" like they claimed, they felt more like sand traps.

-Controls, especially on the keyboard but to a lesser extent on the gamepad as well, were sabotaged. Steering in particular felt really annoying, because the turning rate for steering into a corner and counter steering was wildly different, so you'd not get enough of a turn into a corner, but if you ended up in a slide any hint of counter steer would shoot the car around wildly. Essentially with a keyboard (less with a gamepad) slides were things you just had to wait out and hope for the best, because any steering effort you could do would lead into a spinning car. Another issue was that steering into a corner worked very differently depending on whether you held steering down or tapped it. Tapping actually seemed to make the steering turn quicker (kinda like how counter steer was quicker than normal steer), and often lead to sharper initial response and just blatant oversteer mid-corner. Holding the steering button down on the other hand led often to very slow response and tons of understeer. On many tracks some corners were a situation of "pick your poison": Either you hold the steering down and slow down to a snail pace to manage the corner, or you tap through it and risk instant oversteer, which, as previously discussed, is something you can't really do anything about other than wait for it to end, then carry on. Other issues were more for stuff relating to trying to get by without aids, like the same ramp speed used for up and down on the brake and gas, so many cars would just light up the wheels instantly if you used a pretty quick throttle ramp, but then again if you used a slow ramp and still happened to get slip you couldn't get rid of the throttle quick enough. Brake had similar issues. All of these were obviously a bit better with a gamepad due to analog controls, but I was still detecting hints of this behavior in the background, especially with steering.

-Collisions and damage were a joke, seemingly thrown with a die. Sometimes a light scape on a wall would wreck your suspension drop your top speed by 30 mph while making your car veer to the side constantly, other times you could slide straight into a wall at 100 mph and nothing would break. The effects also seemed very tacked on and artificial. At least there was none of the cars sticking issues like in pCARS, since you are in contact a lot of the time, because:

-The AI is incredibly stupid, highly repetitive, immensely slow, totally unfair, and astoundingly good at getting in your way. They were moving bollards at best and an active road block the rest of the time. They were also unfair because AI cars ALWAYS accelerated quicker than my car, in all circumstances. They usually braked later too, though with the inconsistencies in the braking I usually managed to hang with them by braking early and then rolling for a while, then braking again... But you had no trouble beating the 15-18 of them in a lap or two usually because through the corners they were usually just damn idiotic and slow, and always crashing around whenever there was more than a couple of cars. They didn't really fight for position in any meaningful way. The AI is stupid in many ways, in traffic, during braking, line holding, but the worst offense was that the AI was consistently SLOWER WHEN DRIVING THE RACING LINE THAN WHEN OFF OF IT. In almost every single situation where I followed an AI car through a corner where it was free to take the racing line, I ended up crashing into it because it suddenly came to an almost dead stop in front of me. If I specifically went wide so that I was on the outside line, I passed easily. If I however was able to force myself on the inside and the AI was on the outside, quite often they'd be able to hang there with me. And when following two AI that were side by side, if I followed the one on the proper racing line I'd just crash into it when it stopped, and the one on the outside would zoom into the distance. This was so incredibly annoying, because it meant that with AI anywhere near you couldn't use the racing line. On many corners (most obvious @ Sebring) I witnessed the AI braking into a corner where it was absolutely unnecessary if it was on the racing line (even by itself), but going through without braking if it was on the wide line. Having nearly 20 cars on the track is a fine idea in theory, but when the races are only a couple of laps and you start at the back, and when the AI is this idiotic and unable to handle traffic and slowing down the most when it's on the racing line, it most certainly wasn't a good thing. Which lead to:

-The game rewards you for driving outside of the track. On all races except the ones where you got points for staying in it was always better to cut a corner or go wide on an exit because A) you get absolutely no punishment for it no matter how egregious you are, and B) when you're off of the track you don't have to care about the stupid AI being in your way constantly. This is a horrible thing to have in a racing game. And it wasn't even the worst, because while you're not specifically told to cut and cheat your way around even though everything else in the game tries to push you that way... -->

-The game gives you points and has missions that specifically require you to drive dangerously. Do 5 perfect passes on Spa in a... What was it, a Hurracan/458? Anyway, you're supposed to be passing slow hatchbacks while chasing down a faster car, which is the one you didn't pick. What is a perfect pass? For me, it's a pass where you have to move around minimally, there's no risk of hitting anyone, and neither you nor the one you're passing have to slow down more than you'd otherwise be forced to in that section of the track. In Forza 6? It's a pass that's made VERY close to the other car. In fact you can actually hit the other car (not too hard though) and still get a perfect pass. Basically dive bombing a corner while barely missing the other guy is just about the best way to get these, or maybe blasting by on a straight and swerving in just in front of them.

-Almost everything is immensely locked down, though I guess for someone that could be a bonus. You need a lot of points to get those medals to unlock shit as well, which combined with the very low number of laps and high limitations of what cars you can use etc. leads to:

-This is not a car racing game, this is an action puzzle game. The AI is so repetitive that you can pretty much mechanically find out what you need to do to get rid of them in the minimum amount of time possible. Add to this the fact that you usually have an objective like "finish 1st", "make X perfect passes" or "X perfect corners" (what the game considers "perfect corner" often highly disagreeing with me, and I'm pretty good at racing) and the races become essentially exercises in rote learning to solve a puzzle, not actual races.

-Due to that nature of the game you often end up restarting the race since you'll want to get all the medals in one go, and restarting doesn't actually restart the race, it throws you into the pits and THEN you can restart the race, which subjects you to two unskippable cut scenes and one skippable that still slows you down considerably. Restart should just restart right away, the game is wasting time unloading and reloading between the pits menu and the race beginning state.

-Every now and then the game froze for ~10 seconds, then carried on like nothing had happened, though it'd always leave you wondering what were you pressing when it froze and how long would those commands be applied.

I could go on further, I uninstalled the game yesterday and have probably successfully forgotten many things that bugged me (I want to remove this game from my mind), but suffice to say I very much disliked the game and after quite a few hours of trying to give it a fair chance I just had to stop to maintain my sanity, and I uninstalled it. Reading some comments on here and elsewhere, I think most of the things I had issues with are "just that way" on Xbone too, so very little that can be attributed to the "beta" portion (the freezes obviously fall there though).

On the bright side, the port itself seems pretty solid work, I could use my mouse in the menus, the graphics looked pretty good and I had good and steady FPS in all conditions, stability was pretty good overall, with just the occasional freeze but no crashes or glitching like that. Very good port as far as I can tell up until now.

I really do struggle saying anything positive about the game apart from the quality of the port itself. Nothing in this game is done better than the competition does it, most things that have to do with driving and racing are done better in almost every game I've tried, and overall the game design itself just seems revolting to me. Any sim is better than this for actual racing. Project CARS was better with a keyboard than this, and much better with a gamepad. Heck, I thought the racing was bad in Gran Turismo games because the AI is slow and boring as an opponent, but it never managed to make me actively furious. GT for me is miles better than this as far as actual racing goes. And there are also multiple NFS games out that are better at the racing part, and also more fun to drive. There's just nothing in this game that'd make it a viable choice, for me at least, over pretty much any other car game.

TL;DR: A good port of an abysmal game.

cluck
07-05-2016, 17:04
<much rantage>You need to help me out here Jussi, did you like the game or not?

:p

bporion
07-05-2016, 17:07
So , you did not like it ?? :-) thanks for the review , I can't even download the thing and now I don't have too .

Boskapongen
07-05-2016, 17:10
Donīt complain on the game, you might get banned!

Jussi Viljami Karjalainen
07-05-2016, 17:37
One minor caveat: Someone said on the pCARS 2 forums that by default there's an option turned on in the game that makes the AI slow down in front of you ON PURPOSE, to both block and cause the player to crash. If it is indeed so (I don't have the game installed anymore) and it makes that aspect better (should also speed up the AI if it isn't slowing down on purpose), then I might only complain about the delivery method, the menus (cut scenes/voice overs), controls, physics and nearly every aspect of the game design thus far. =)

cluck
07-05-2016, 17:39
One minor caveat: Someone said on the pCARS 2 forums that by default there's an option turned on in the game that makes the AI slow down in front of you ON PURPOSE, to both block and cause the player to crash. If it is indeed so (I don't have the game installed anymore) and it makes that aspect better (should also speed up the AI if it isn't slowing down on purpose), then I might only complain about the delivery method, the menus (cut scenes/voice overs), controls, physics and nearly every aspect of the game design thus far. =)Apart from poor AI, bad delivery method, unsatisfactory menus, poor controls, poor physics, poor game design, what have the Romans ever done for us?

Jussi Viljami Karjalainen
07-05-2016, 20:05
I decided to give it one more chance with the driver aggressiveness turned OFF (EDIT: Or rather, to turn ON the Limit Aggression setting). This made the whole experience a lot better, they're much more comfortable to get around now and they're not constantly braking in front of you. They're not really any quicker, but they're not outrageously annoying either. I'd say that this change alone makes the AI on par with Shift 2 and Gran Turismo, or thereabouts, meaning slow and unchallenging but not actively harmful to your health (some people complain about Shift 2 AI crashing them all the time, I had that in Shift 1 where they were absolute lunatics, but Shift 2 AI stays out of my way perfectly, I almost never even threaten to hit them, but they're so slow there's absolutely no challenge).

This change makes the game less frustrating because you're not constantly having to battle with the AI idiocy, but other than that it doesn't really make the game any better as such.

Another annoying thing about this game: GT1 cars in an otherwise mixed field of GTE/LM and GT3 cars? That's hardly fair...

Ian Bell
08-05-2016, 02:27
I'm going to say that this was the worst racing game I've played since NFS: Carbon, which made me so angry that I almost broke the frame of my bed with a hammer. This wasn't quite that bad and I gave up before it got there though. Reasons are numerous. These are with varying levels of assists, though usually minimal, like ABS in cars that lock up instantly and traction control in ones that just spin the tyres and won't stop at all, and almost always with "simulation" steering:

-It's installed as a f*cking app. Microsoft: DO NOT FORCE US TO INSTALL FULL GAMES LIKE APPS.

-The f*cking endless amount of cut scenes and voice overs. All over the place. A lot of which you can't skip, and even the ones that you can still delaying things. Especial hatred reserved for the "pull into and out of pits" animations that are unskippable and 1000% useless garbage that just slows everything down.

-Driving physics are neither arcade enough to be fun and enjoyable, like the better NFS games can manage, nor are they in any way simmy or convincing enough to be engaging like actual sims can manage. Plus the game keeps referencing to itself as an in-depth simulator, so if I were to judge it by how it calls itself, I'd call the physics shit. The grip of the tyres is really inconsistent, they either grip way too much or end up in nigh endless slides seemingly randomly, braking especially is really inconsistent. On a track with a flat and long braking zone from a high speed I did a test: Braking at a specific marker the car came to a full stop a bit before the corner entrance (so braking point was too early). Braking 5-8 meters later caused the car to go 15 meter past the corner (so braking point was too late). The only way to get the car to stop at a "proper" distance was to brake early, but modulate as well. This was with ABS on so locking of tyres couldn't be the cause. Overall the sliding characteristics of the tyres felt really odd and the cars just responded in ways I wasn't expecting them to.

-AWD cars felt just like RWD cars, except like there was something wrong with them. FWD cars surprisingly felt the most convincing, and I even almost enjoyed the BTCC Civic.

-Water... It barely had an effect on handling, at least one that felt natural, and the lakes on the track didn't really cause "aquaplaning" like they claimed, they felt more like sand traps.

-Controls, especially on the keyboard but to a lesser extent on the gamepad as well, were sabotaged. Steering in particular felt really annoying, because the turning rate for steering into a corner and counter steering was wildly different, so you'd not get enough of a turn into a corner, but if you ended up in a slide any hint of counter steer would shoot the car around wildly. Essentially with a keyboard (less with a gamepad) slides were things you just had to wait out and hope for the best, because any steering effort you could do would lead into a spinning car. Another issue was that steering into a corner worked very differently depending on whether you held steering down or tapped it. Tapping actually seemed to make the steering turn quicker (kinda like how counter steer was quicker than normal steer), and often lead to sharper initial response and just blatant oversteer mid-corner. Holding the steering button down on the other hand led often to very slow response and tons of understeer. On many tracks some corners were a situation of "pick your poison": Either you hold the steering down and slow down to a snail pace to manage the corner, or you tap through it and risk instant oversteer, which, as previously discussed, is something you can't really do anything about other than wait for it to end, then carry on. Other issues were more for stuff relating to trying to get by without aids, like the same ramp speed used for up and down on the brake and gas, so many cars would just light up the wheels instantly if you used a pretty quick throttle ramp, but then again if you used a slow ramp and still happened to get slip you couldn't get rid of the throttle quick enough. Brake had similar issues. All of these were obviously a bit better with a gamepad due to analog controls, but I was still detecting hints of this behavior in the background, especially with steering.

-Collisions and damage were a joke, seemingly thrown with a die. Sometimes a light scape on a wall would wreck your suspension drop your top speed by 30 mph while making your car veer to the side constantly, other times you could slide straight into a wall at 100 mph and nothing would break. The effects also seemed very tacked on and artificial. At least there was none of the cars sticking issues like in pCARS, since you are in contact a lot of the time, because:

-The AI is incredibly stupid, highly repetitive, immensely slow, totally unfair, and astoundingly good at getting in your way. They were moving bollards at best and an active road block the rest of the time. They were also unfair because AI cars ALWAYS accelerated quicker than my car, in all circumstances. They usually braked later too, though with the inconsistencies in the braking I usually managed to hang with them by braking early and then rolling for a while, then braking again... But you had no trouble beating the 15-18 of them in a lap or two usually because through the corners they were usually just damn idiotic and slow, and always crashing around whenever there was more than a couple of cars. They didn't really fight for position in any meaningful way. The AI is stupid in many ways, in traffic, during braking, line holding, but the worst offense was that the AI was consistently SLOWER WHEN DRIVING THE RACING LINE THAN WHEN OFF OF IT. In almost every single situation where I followed an AI car through a corner where it was free to take the racing line, I ended up crashing into it because it suddenly came to an almost dead stop in front of me. If I specifically went wide so that I was on the outside line, I passed easily. If I however was able to force myself on the inside and the AI was on the outside, quite often they'd be able to hang there with me. And when following two AI that were side by side, if I followed the one on the proper racing line I'd just crash into it when it stopped, and the one on the outside would zoom into the distance. This was so incredibly annoying, because it meant that with AI anywhere near you couldn't use the racing line. On many corners (most obvious @ Sebring) I witnessed the AI braking into a corner where it was absolutely unnecessary if it was on the racing line (even by itself), but going through without braking if it was on the wide line. Having nearly 20 cars on the track is a fine idea in theory, but when the races are only a couple of laps and you start at the back, and when the AI is this idiotic and unable to handle traffic and slowing down the most when it's on the racing line, it most certainly wasn't a good thing. Which lead to:

-The game rewards you for driving outside of the track. On all races except the ones where you got points for staying in it was always better to cut a corner or go wide on an exit because A) you get absolutely no punishment for it no matter how egregious you are, and B) when you're off of the track you don't have to care about the stupid AI being in your way constantly. This is a horrible thing to have in a racing game. And it wasn't even the worst, because while you're not specifically told to cut and cheat your way around even though everything else in the game tries to push you that way... -->

-The game gives you points and has missions that specifically require you to drive dangerously. Do 5 perfect passes on Spa in a... What was it, a Hurracan/458? Anyway, you're supposed to be passing slow hatchbacks while chasing down a faster car, which is the one you didn't pick. What is a perfect pass? For me, it's a pass where you have to move around minimally, there's no risk of hitting anyone, and neither you nor the one you're passing have to slow down more than you'd otherwise be forced to in that section of the track. In Forza 6? It's a pass that's made VERY close to the other car. In fact you can actually hit the other car (not too hard though) and still get a perfect pass. Basically dive bombing a corner while barely missing the other guy is just about the best way to get these, or maybe blasting by on a straight and swerving in just in front of them.

-Almost everything is immensely locked down, though I guess for someone that could be a bonus. You need a lot of points to get those medals to unlock shit as well, which combined with the very low number of laps and high limitations of what cars you can use etc. leads to:

-This is not a car racing game, this is an action puzzle game. The AI is so repetitive that you can pretty much mechanically find out what you need to do to get rid of them in the minimum amount of time possible. Add to this the fact that you usually have an objective like "finish 1st", "make X perfect passes" or "X perfect corners" (what the game considers "perfect corner" often highly disagreeing with me, and I'm pretty good at racing) and the races become essentially exercises in rote learning to solve a puzzle, not actual races.

-Due to that nature of the game you often end up restarting the race since you'll want to get all the medals in one go, and restarting doesn't actually restart the race, it throws you into the pits and THEN you can restart the race, which subjects you to two unskippable cut scenes and one skippable that still slows you down considerably. Restart should just restart right away, the game is wasting time unloading and reloading between the pits menu and the race beginning state.

-Every now and then the game froze for ~10 seconds, then carried on like nothing had happened, though it'd always leave you wondering what were you pressing when it froze and how long would those commands be applied.

I could go on further, I uninstalled the game yesterday and have probably successfully forgotten many things that bugged me (I want to remove this game from my mind), but suffice to say I very much disliked the game and after quite a few hours of trying to give it a fair chance I just had to stop to maintain my sanity, and I uninstalled it. Reading some comments on here and elsewhere, I think most of the things I had issues with are "just that way" on Xbone too, so very little that can be attributed to the "beta" portion (the freezes obviously fall there though).

On the bright side, the port itself seems pretty solid work, I could use my mouse in the menus, the graphics looked pretty good and I had good and steady FPS in all conditions, stability was pretty good overall, with just the occasional freeze but no crashes or glitching like that. Very good port as far as I can tell up until now.

I really do struggle saying anything positive about the game apart from the quality of the port itself. Nothing in this game is done better than the competition does it, most things that have to do with driving and racing are done better in almost every game I've tried, and overall the game design itself just seems revolting to me. Any sim is better than this for actual racing. Project CARS was better with a keyboard than this, and much better with a gamepad. Heck, I thought the racing was bad in Gran Turismo games because the AI is slow and boring as an opponent, but it never managed to make me actively furious. GT for me is miles better than this as far as actual racing goes. And there are also multiple NFS games out that are better at the racing part, and also more fun to drive. There's just nothing in this game that'd make it a viable choice, for me at least, over pretty much any other car game.

TL;DR: A good port of an abysmal game.

So you loved it?

Boskapongen
08-05-2016, 09:35
Another annoying thing about this game: GT1 cars in an otherwise mixed field of GTE/LM and GT3 cars? That's hardly fair...

Is the this the first Forza you ever played Jussi? Forza has a Class system so almost every car can race against other cars as long as they are in same class, A, B, C, R etc, you can upgrade all cars in the game.

Forza Apex is more a Tutorial/Demo and does not represent the real Forza 6 game when it comes to gameplay and modes. That being said, Pcars is more a sim and Forza is more a causal simcade.

Jussi Viljami Karjalainen
08-05-2016, 09:59
So you loved it?Yep, I've decided to ditch pCARS2 and ask if I could become an official beta tester at Turn 10.

(Hopefully my knee gets better so that I can use pedals again, way too much stuff to test in pCARS2 right now for me to not be able to use a wheel... :()


Is the this the first Forza you ever played Jussi? Forza has a Class system so almost every car can race against other cars as long as they are in same class, A, B, C, R etc, you can upgrade all cars in the game.I am aware of that, I've tried Forza before and played Gran Turismo extensively in the past (which largely allows the same), but the problem here was that the particular GT1 car's rating was miles beyond the GT3 cars, it accelerated, cornered and went in a straight line vastly faster than the GT3/GTLM cars. When upgrading is removed and cars are limited to a very small number that sort of massive unbalancing should be frowned upon. Even ignoring the human player it was silly that a single AI car on the grid was over a minute faster than the rest of the AI on a 3 lap race. =)

Schadows
08-05-2016, 15:31
I can't install the beta (for whatever reason an error occurs when I try to download the app ... great job microsoft with your shitty store), but it looks like every past forza.
I was so relieved when all cars were unlocked from the start in pcars, not having to use shitty city cars and so on.
Strangely, some people complained about that, saying they are missing a goal/rewards, but I never heard these same person complain about having every team unlocked in FIFA / PES (but i'm sure you will hear complaints if they do lock some top team / premiere leagues >__<).

And in the case of that F2P Forza beta, with the lack of tracks, grinding is surely more painful than ever.

Jussi Viljami Karjalainen
08-05-2016, 17:21
And in the case of that F2P Forza beta, with the lack of tracks, grinding is surely more painful than ever.There's really not that much grinding involved. You unlock cars with medals, which you seem to be only able to get via the series of races they have planned for you and the spotlight races (and of course with money). I've gotten all medals from all current events and still need about 30 of them to unlock everything, so I'd basically have to wait until more spotlight races are opened up. Not going to bother, uninstalled the game again. There's just nothing fun in it.

havocc
08-05-2016, 18:35
I can't install the beta (for whatever reason an error occurs when I try to download the app ... great job microsoft with your shitty store), but it looks like every past forza.
I was so relieved when all cars were unlocked from the start in pcars, not having to use shitty city cars and so on.
Strangely, some people complained about that, saying they are missing a goal/rewards, but I never heard these same person complain about having every team unlocked in FIFA / PES (but i'm sure you will hear complaints if they do lock some top team / premiere leagues >__<).

And in the case of that F2P Forza beta, with the lack of tracks, grinding is surely more painful than ever.

It's win10 only because of dx12, i see from your sig you have win7

Invincible
08-05-2016, 18:54
I've installed it, but it doesn't start. I get a white screen, then it goes black for two seconds, then white again and I'm back on my desktop without any crash message or anything like that. Can someone help? Specs are in my signature and win 10 is fully updated.

Alan Dallas
08-05-2016, 19:24
Well... Got it installed and it's very obvious Beta so I'll be waiting until they hash it out some more and save my final judgement for Apex.

Schadows
08-05-2016, 19:37
There's really not that much grinding involved. You unlock cars with medals, which you seem to be only able to get via the series of races they have planned for you and the spotlight races (and of course with money). I've gotten all medals from all current events and still need about 30 of them to unlock everything, so I'd basically have to wait until more spotlight races are opened up. Not going to bother, uninstalled the game again. There's just nothing fun in it.Don't you have to earn money to buy cars? Meaning you have to do the same races again, and again (and again) ?
They may have change to formula with this PC version, but having heard of micro-transaction, which basically makes this an early access F2P ("free to pay" or "game in kit" in that case) rather than a beta, I supposed painful grinding was (or will be) the key to unlock cars.


It's win10 only because of dx12, i see from your sig you have win7Didn't update that part of my sign since the WMD days (i will update it in a minute). I'm using an up to date win10 64bits but as soon as I start the download, the error 0x80072EFD kicks in, and everything I tried from the windows support site was unsuccessful (disabling anti-virus and such, check/repairing, etc.).
I'm not curious enough (because only curiosity pushed me to tried it) that I will keep loosing time on this. I was bored with it on console, no reason it won't be the same on PC.

Bealdor
08-05-2016, 19:57
Didn't update that part of my sign since the WMD days (i will update it in a minute). I'm using an up to date win10 64bits but as soon as I start the download, the error 0x80072EFD kicks in, and everything I tried from the windows support site was unsuccessful (disabling anti-virus and such, check/repairing, etc.).
I'm not curious enough (because only curiosity pushed me to tried it) that I will keep loosing time on this. I was bored with it on console, no reason it won't be the same on PC.

Try this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=opgrTevRos0

ColeusRattus
08-05-2016, 22:18
A littel Comparison I made:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sD-nNU9jIUs

Jussi Viljami Karjalainen
09-05-2016, 00:27
Don't you have to earn money to buy cars? Meaning you have to do the same races again, and again (and again) ?
They may have change to formula with this PC version, but having heard of micro-transaction, which basically makes this an early access F2P ("free to pay" or "game in kit" in that case) rather than a beta, I supposed painful grinding was (or will be) the key to unlock cars.Nope, not in Apex at least. Cars are unlocked via medals, which you get for scoring enough points in a race. The only reason to repeat a race from an unlocking point of view is if you didn't get enough points the first time to get all the medals.

This is a large reason why I said the game is an action puzzler more than a racing game: Winning is often a nearly irrelevant side thing, you must fulfill the missions given to you (they're always the same for a given race, though vary quite a bit from one race to another) to get a lot of points, which are then multiplied further by your difficulty settings (both AI and driving aids). For example in one race the missions were (IIRC) "Don't use driving line", "One lap under 2:25" and "Pass to win on last lap", and you had 3 laps total, start was from the back of the pack. The time limit took decent driving, which essentially meant you had to avoid the AI for that, so in the end it was easiest to get ahead of the AI on the first lap (not very hard even on high difficulties), do the quick lap on the second one, then stop and wait for the AI to catch up and pass you, then pass them again to take the win. And seemingly at least you did indeed have to achieve the missions in the same race to get the high points.

Not very good for racing, that stuff.

Ryzza5
09-05-2016, 04:31
Biggest gripe for me is the handling on the pad - 'Normal' is too damped, and 'Simulation' is the other extreme. Normal needs to be between these two imo.
If I'm turning too much in a corner I let go of the stick for moment and then the car instantly starts under steering and I'm unable to apply full lock again quickly enough.

Will have to wait for wheel support to comment on Simulation.
AI being able to outbrake me every time got annoying fast too, as well as the crashes, and slow Restart race sequences.


Presentation is far and away better than most other racing games (although quite frankly overdone).

Game remembers the paint you used for a certain car but then when you choose that car it asks you to select paint colour again, at which time it forgets what you had previously used.

OppaErich
09-05-2016, 07:49
It's dead Jim. It ran for 2 days but now crashes at the loading screen. Ah well, back to serious racing games.

Schadows
09-05-2016, 08:58
Try this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=opgrTevRos0Unfortunately, I already tried this (despite the fact Windows update was still working fine) without any success (it was also suggestion on microsoft support site).
I will retry in a couple of weeks.

ak1504
12-05-2016, 07:10
Forza 6 Apex Beta | Chevrolet Corvette C7.R @ Sebring International Raceway


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_khnsGzWIZY

Jussi Viljami Karjalainen
12-05-2016, 08:16
That particular race annoyed me (and was the point where I first uninstalled the game, before hearing about the AI aggression switch being helpful), because there were GT1 cars thrown into the mix, which were quite far from the rating of the GT3 and GTE cars.

Mark Silcock
12-05-2016, 08:48
I didnt mind that one although I agree I was surprised to see the road cars in the grid, but I guess that's how Forza works. The race that nearly caused a nervous breakdown was at Spa in the wet...

Jussi Viljami Karjalainen
12-05-2016, 12:12
Huh, didn't notice any road cars there myself. =/

Mark Silcock
12-05-2016, 12:17
Must have been the prototype race then, had Supercars on the grid.

Jussi Viljami Karjalainen
12-05-2016, 14:02
Yeah, there were all sorts of cars in that one.

N0body Of The Goat
12-05-2016, 20:32
There's an update available through the app store.

TrackDayKC
12-05-2016, 23:47
I saw it was in open beta, downloaded it, discovered it was utter trash compared to pCars, uninstalled, and started back on pCars.

maybe 5 tracks total, limited number of cars, and it still looks better on the xbone than it does on PC.

Total disappointment. Also crashed on me 2 times by making the video driver wig out.

Flat_out
13-05-2016, 00:03
Well it is a beta!

Cheesenium
13-05-2016, 00:17
Apex isn't even a full Forza game so why are you comparing it to Pcars? Apex looks more like a test bed for future Forza games on PC than anything else.

I never understand all these "one must play only one game" mentality with everything must be the same as their favourite game.

I played Apex, it is decently enjoyable for me with cars drives a lot better than Forza 5. Not a bad first attempt from turn 10, hopefully they will bring Forza 7 with all its additional content to PC. I'll definitely buy a Forza game on PC.

Joshua Healy
13-05-2016, 01:33
Apex isn't even a full Forza game so why are you comparing it to Pcars? Apex looks more like a test bed for future Forza games on PC than anything else.

I never understand all these "one must play only one game" mentality with everything must be the same as their favourite game.

I played Apex, it is decently enjoyable for me with cars drives a lot better than Forza 5. Not a bad first attempt from turn 10, hopefully they will bring Forza 7 with all its additional content to PC. I'll definitely buy a Forza game on PC.

Yeah I agree, I've recently finished all the main events and am now trying to go through and see how many platinum medals I can get. Can't wait for either Horizon 3 or forza 7 :)

It's a great beta so far and it's good to finally have a game I can casually load up with my controller and enjoy without setting up my wheel if I only have 20-30 minutes to kill.

Jussi Viljami Karjalainen
13-05-2016, 06:02
Eh, personally thought it was the worst racing game I'd played since NFS Carbon, which was the worst thing humanity has ever done. Especially the racing aspect was insanely lacking. But to each their own.

Ian Bell
13-05-2016, 06:06
Eh, personally thought it was the worst racing game I'd played since NFS Carbon, which was the worst thing humanity has ever done. Especially the racing aspect was insanely lacking. But to each their own.

So you loved it Jussi?

Udd-
13-05-2016, 06:30
Hard for me to judge it without wheel support and FOV etc. But I thought it was crap too. Don't mind playing other games but each time I do I realise how insanely good pcars is.

pavano
13-05-2016, 06:58
why would anyone be worried?
It's not like PCars will get worse only by being associated with crap like Forza

Joshua Healy
13-05-2016, 06:59
Oh yeah it'll never replace pCARS for serious racing... If anything once wheel support comes I might try it once and keep using my controller anyway because I don't think it'll be that great with one. It's designed for controllers mainly so that's where it'll stay for me. Those times where I don't have time to set my wheel up or late at night when I don't want to be too loud.

Mr Schumacher
13-05-2016, 07:03
Hard for me to judge it without wheel support and FOV etc. But I thought it was crap too. Don't mind playing other games but each time I do I realise how insanely good pcars is.

Pcars has too Much potential if that's a thing. After Pcars picks up some stem, it would be nice if they went in the direction of a PRO version (optional for consumers) for the more serious racers. More in completion with Iracing. Forced cockpit, a rating system and all real assist. not sure how they could manage a membership, but just constantly updating one platform with more and more content. I think it would be amazing.

Cheesenium
13-05-2016, 07:28
Hard for me to judge it without wheel support and FOV etc. But I thought it was crap too. Don't mind playing other games but each time I do I realise how insanely good pcars is.

I agree that pcars is insanely good, especially it's very progressive physics simulation. It really felt like the conditions are changing dynamically as you drive through the day-night transition. Once you reach the happy hour, typically around dawn, the driving at that time always put a smile on my face with lap records being broken lap by lap.

Still, I disagree that every game needs to be pcars. There are still some charms in Apex, mainly it has a lot of cars that I miss seeing along with a more arcadish handling behavior that I do miss sometimes. Apex is kinda the controller racing game that I can relax for some decent driving that I wont be able to do it with a Megane Trophy Cup in pcars without spinning out to a wall.

I could just play some GT3s or Road A/B, but then, I do really really miss driving a Jaguar, Dodge, Volvo, Lexus, Hyundai and other brands that rarely appear in PC racing games. If pcars 2 could get those more obscure brands, like Jaguars, Lexus, Volvo, Hyundai/Kia to TVR, that would be amazing.

Especially TVR. Please, Ian Bell. :P

Alan Dallas
13-05-2016, 07:54
Umm shouldn't this should be combined with the Off Topic thread on the same topic?

konnos
13-05-2016, 07:56
Are you guys seriously comparing PCars to Forza? Their target groups are completely different. Like PCars had anything to "worry" about.

Bealdor
13-05-2016, 08:02
Threads merged.

Craig_Gen_70
13-05-2016, 22:14
I wish some of you would shut up about "It's coming soon", without any sort of PROOF, evidence straight from MS that "Features" that 99.9% of PC games have had since day fucking zero, and now the mighty MS is adding them back in ? Seriously ?
Who cares about Forza, and Forza bloody Horizon, or ANY MS games so long as ZERO controller support is there, oh yeah I forgot they just add in their own damn useless Xbox One controller - give me the Sony DS4 any day of the week.

What about FULLSCREEN support, not this namby pamby borderless crap ? Oh wait, it's to make alt-tabbing easier , lol. Like you really need alt-tabbing support on games that you can't mod, tweak, run overlays like Afterburner, or Fraps. Oh but they're coming says some internet random dude without any proof.
SLI ? Coming ? V-Sync working for you ? Seems buggy at the moment. Freesync ? Doesn't work on borderless fullscreen.

The inability to execute apps outside of the app store's virtualised environment stops adding the game to your Steam collection.
Locked folder contents, so no permission changes to allow viewing of your own damn files.

And muppets out there lap this crap up. Amazing! Microsoft removes stuff we PC gamers have enjoyed for YEARS, and muppets love it.

I will stick to and enjoy PCars, thankyou.

Now that is a proper RANT. :D
Too much caffeine today, and I'm a cranky old git.

Hlspwn
13-05-2016, 23:45
I was curious about apex. Me and a few blokes at work spanked forza for years, while I was in my egg box era(360). So I decided to get it loaded up, and after being forced to install the AMD beta drivers. We got going.

Got to say, it ran pretty sweet. Looks nice, not able to select ultra as I do not have enough system ram (????) At high setting still smooth. Noticed micro jumps on other cars, for a split second but no pausing or locking up. Looking at how much power the fury was drawing showed it only working at half pace.

So it looks good, cut scenes and videos are good, but then the illusion falls away very rapidly.

Its not until I had played A\C and project cars, and started using a wheel, that I came to realise just how bad forza is in the physics department. It is truly poor. If forza is going to come to the pc, they need to drop the forza arcade physics. I got as far as the ferrari and lamborghini race in the challenges where you have to get past slower cars. It felt so fake, and unrealistic, enough was enough.

458 italia should not feel as though someone has strapped baking trays under the front wheels. The quicker cars feel so skittish and falsely sped up like a crap movie, they are not playable.

Perhaps the worst part of the experience is that dam annoying tire noise. Someone at turn 10 should take a long walk for that. I can only explain it as someone's poor attempt of a dinosaur impression gone horribly wrong, even a young child can do a better tyre noise. I would even prefer Joe Pasquale singing "i have got a tyre noise that will get on your nerves, get on your nerves".

Seriously now, graphics are good, menus good, car handling complete poop. Felt no engagement with the car what so ever with a 360 controller. When wheel support comes along, may give it another try. But I can not take forza seriously. They have a winning formula (apart from the grind, pay to play, and cartoon physics)

Turn 10 have a habit of not listening. Things I complained about in Forza 3 and 4 are still evident. How can you race a game where you can only turn the wheel a quarter of a turn? Miss an apex and you have to brake, or power oversteer to get back in the direction you want to go. Get any form of slap on, suddenly -10 with thick ice. The closing distances on slower cars, is not correct. Other cars seem to be floating around the track, they do not give the impression of racing or been on any sort of limit, seem like they are painted on. A 370z can dance wheel to wheel with a golf R in the rain, no matter what corner or camber or gradient (er no!)

A bit of fun for the kids, way off the mark of project cars.

You guys done a seriously good job :cool: and we know that you do listen.

MisterO
16-05-2016, 08:11
Still, I disagree that every game needs to be pcars. There are still some charms in Apex, mainly it has a lot of cars that I miss seeing along with a more arcadish handling behavior that I do miss sometimes. Apex is kinda the controller racing game that I can relax for some decent driving that I wont be able to do it with a Megane Trophy Cup in pcars without spinning out to a wall.


What he said. I expected a Forza-game, I got a Forza-game. And for that I like it. And won't really compare it to pCars.

OppaErich
16-05-2016, 10:21
...
Perhaps the worst part of the experience is that dam annoying tire noise...

Ah, I'm not alone. Boy is that annoying. I've played 1-4 to death, the only difference I see here is the optics. Even the annoying AI behaviour didn't change a bit. There's one to three blocking the track at insanely low speeds, if you manage to pass them (usually off track) then comes the next one braking way to late, trying to fool you into that trap...so predictable.

Edit:

It's dead Jim. It ran for 2 days but now crashes at the loading screen. Ah well, back to serious racing games.
Just in case...found the fix by accident. I have to open ForzaHub and keep it open before I start Apex. It works fine then, so prolly some login issue.