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View Full Version : Which is better? VR/Triple Screens



BreadedVirus
02-05-2016, 23:43
I'm just curious to see what people think is better and what the pros and cons are of both triple screen and VR setups?

Human_bean
03-05-2016, 08:53
In for answers.

cluck
03-05-2016, 09:04
Sadly, there is no simple answer to which is better :o.

I have never owned triples, so I can only give you the major Pro and Con for a VR headset :-

Pro - Immersion and a real sense of depth to the scene

Con - Lack of visual fidelity (inc. more object pop-in)


At the moment, it also does not appear possible to record Rift footage using the usual suspects (OBD, Shadowplay etc).

Personally, the immersion outweighs any cons for me, especially when racing. Being able to naturally look to your left and right and see the cars around you is something you just have to try to realise how good it can be. I'm sure Mo (MelBonkers) will post in this thread if he sees it - he just got a Rift CV1 last week and straight away took part in a 2-hour endurance race with it.


EDIT : I've had a DK2 since September 2014 and I took to it like a duck to water. It took a couple of days to adjust to the new FOV (and also to concentrate on driving instead of looking around all the time :D) but after that, I just haven't been able to go back to a single screen. I don't think I've driven a single proper lap without it since I got it. And I don't want to either ;).

Sankyo
03-05-2016, 09:07
You look less silly when playing on triples :p

On a serious side, as cluck stated the immersion is probably best with VR, but since you cannot see your wheel, button boxes etc. it may need some getting used to finding all controls blindly.

cluck
03-05-2016, 09:14
You look less silly when playing on triples :p

On a serious side, as cluck stated the immersion is probably best with VR, but since you cannot see your wheel, button boxes etc. it may need some getting used to finding all controls blindly.That 'con' comes up quite regularly, but I still maintain that most people probably don't actually look at their button boxes or wheels whilst driving - almost everybody does it by instinct. There's a very simple test you can perform, before getting a VR headset.

Sit down in your usual driving position.
Now shut your eyes.
Name a control in your head that you want to press, then reach out and press the switch or dial you think is correct.
Open your eyes
Does your hand sit on the correct switch or dial?

I'll wager that most people will do this 100% correctly if they've had a wheel or switchbox for a few weeks :).

You're right though, you do look utterly daft wearing a headset. I know you're joking of course but, like a Jaguar S-Type owner can't see what the car front looks like from the driver's seat (clue : it looks gopping (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/af/Jaguar_S-Type_front_20090128.jpg) ), neither can you see how daft you look whilst you are wearing your headset :D.

icebear
03-05-2016, 09:28
i offered to many friends to try my vive and rift cv1.

Some of them wants one after 5mn, just because of P Cars, the incredible immersion it offers and the better times you can do with a vr headset.
you are in the car, you would like to touch the buttons, you try sometimes... It is much easier to find the apex and avoid others cars too.

Others considers the resolution too ugly and dont want to sacrify their precious 4K screen. dont forget with the actual heasdsets, you can't read little characters on the cockpits.

From my humble opinion, i will never ever play "flat" again. But you have to try by yourself to know if you prefer the magical feeling of immersion or the crisp 4K resolution...

Second generation of VR headsets with eye tracking, and foveated rendering should allow the next generation of gpu to run 4K screens easely (with help of better optics too maybe) so VR actual lack of resolution should not exist anymore :)

DreamsKnight
03-05-2016, 11:30
Con - Lack of visual fidelity (inc. more object pop-in)



could you explain this? and what about fov? how do you set it ? what you see?

we are in a point that is a choice. an oculus costs less than 3 good 27"

Donnced
03-05-2016, 12:02
For me it's better with a triple sreen,it's a good field of view and immersing.

The VR puts you really inside the car,but the VR is a weight on your head and neck, and in long game sessions or races it becomes really uncomfortable

cluck
03-05-2016, 12:22
could you explain this? and what about fov? how do you set it ? what you see?

we are in a point that is a choice. an oculus costs less than 3 good 27"The only way to describe it is as if you turn the resolution down on your monitor from, say, 1920x1080 to 1376x768. Some objects, at the moment, also 'pop-in' quite late, so they have the effect of suddenly appearing, which can be distracting for some people.

As for FOV, I have left it on the default setting, whatever that might be and have never bothered to look at adjusting it - for me, it just feels right.

However, I only have an Oculus DK2, I haven't tried a CV1 or the HTC Vive, so take that into account when reading my comments on the graphic fidelity/quality :).

Jussi Viljami Karjalainen
03-05-2016, 12:23
VR has me very giddy about the possibilities, but I really don't care much for triples. A single big screen is better IMO than three small ones, though obviously three big ones would be preferable. Anyway, I'd much rather shoot for VR.

Stryker44
03-05-2016, 12:49
I use triple screen 100% of the time now and really like it even though they haven't completely optimized it for triples. That telemetry hud stretched across all three screens used to drive me batty (still does sometimes) but after accepting the fact that they aren't going to fix it, I kind of got used to it. Now I can't imagine going back to single screen. I tried a couple of times and even though the graphics are somewhat better and frame rates are better, the immersion factor is WAY better with triples. I have 460 +/- hours on this game. I must like it!!!

I can't record my races with shadowplay while in triple for some reason. I think it's a nvidia problem though.

I don't know any thing about VR but from what I've seen there's no reason for me to try it. especially with a racing game where a lot of the immersion comes from seeing the wheel and stuff. but that's just me, I might be missing out ... IDK. I put all my money in a video card and 3 awesome monitors and haven't looked back.

ps.. my fov is set at 126. My resolution is at 6024x1080 144 Hz with bezel correction of 132/132. My average frame rates run at 60 - 70 with graphic settings really high but some not maxed out. still able to get great graphics though.

cluck
03-05-2016, 12:57
I use triple screen 100% of the time now and really like it even though they haven't completely optimized it for triples. That telemetry hud stretched across all three screens used to drive me batty (still does sometimes) but after accepting the fact that they aren't going to fix it, I kind of got used to it. Now I can't imagine going back to single screen. I tried a couple of times and even though the graphics are somewhat better and frame rates are better, the immersion factor is WAY better with triples compared to a single screen. I have 460 +/- hours on this game. I must like it!!!

I can't record my races with shadowplay while in triple for some reason. I think it's a nvidia problem though.

I don't know any thing about VR but from what I've seen there's no reason for me to try it. especially with a racing game where a lot of the immersion comes from seeing the wheel and stuff. but that's just me, I might be missing out ... IDK. I put all my money in a video card and 3 awesome monitors and haven't looked back.

ps.. my fov is set at 126. My resolution is at 6024x1080 144 Hz with bezel correction of 132/132. My average frame rates run at 60 - 70 with graphic settings really high but some not maxed out. still able to get great graphics.An important point to note here, the edit I put in bold ;) - unless you meant it was WAY better than VR? For me, unless I had a handy stock of complete car shells and can find some way of displaying the right display to monitors that are put in place of each and every window of that car shell, VR will beat monitors for immersion every single day of the week (for those that don't get sick).

Ask yourself this. How many times have you reached your hand out to cool it on the virtual car vent. VR will have you doing that and more - and yes, you will feel very silly each and every time you do :) (I speak from experience on this matter ;))

RomKnight
03-05-2016, 13:31
Guess that after I've seen first reviews and all i'll hang to triple screens. Even if the Vive and its tracking and camera does allow for button box access and all.

wrt to buttons on wheel it is like changing gears. Who looks at gear lever to change gears? Or change the radio station? adjust mirrors? Muscle memory does it. Well, I know my car, can't vouch for others but you get the point :D

Too expensive and I wear glasses and it seems both kits have quirks with comfort in this department not to mention visual quality.

But, I have yet to try the VIVE. reviews or not that think geek factor is INSANE and I have to see if I can handle it because if it is like Track IR I just can't use it as I get motion sickness FAST :(

Mahjik
03-05-2016, 13:41
Triples can be useful outside of sim racing depending on how you use your computer. I don't think I can ever go back to using a single screen on my computer (not specifically for sim racing).

crowtrobot
03-05-2016, 13:52
Ask yourself this. How many times have you reached your hand out to cool it on the virtual car vent. VR will have you doing that and more - and yes, you will feel very silly each and every time you do :) (I speak from experience on this matter ;))
Every time I go to reverse a car in AC, I try to put my arm around the virtual passenger's seat to look out the rear window and back up. Every time.

Jussi Viljami Karjalainen
03-05-2016, 14:00
Triples can be useful outside of sim racing depending on how you use your computer. I don't think I can ever go back to using a single screen on my computer (not specifically for sim racing).That much is true, for me two monitors are a minimum and 3 is much preferred. But gaming with triples involves much more than just having three monitors. =)

cluck
03-05-2016, 14:14
Every time I go to reverse a car in AC, I try to put my arm around the virtual passenger's seat to look out the rear window and back up. Every time.I still reach for the imaginary handbrake quite often, when I'm on a track that has the grid on a slight slope. Pure instinct at work. That and sometimes panicking at realising I wasn't wearing a seatbelt. The human brain can be so incredibly stupid at times. Well, mine can be!

[OFF-TOPIC] As for what you find yourself doing, I haven't done that for more than 20 years - the first company car I bought was a little van that had no rear windows, so I got used to relying on the side mirrors alone. It's a habit I've retained long since that vehicle went bye bye :o [/OFF-TOPIC]

DreamsKnight
03-05-2016, 16:01
what is this "lack of proper triple monitor support" i read a lot of time?

Jussi Viljami Karjalainen
03-05-2016, 16:08
what is this "lack of proper triple monitor support" i read a lot of time?It means that the image on every screen isn't rendered separately, instead the game renders one large FOV view that gets plastered on the screen, resulting in some distortion. The "optimal" way would be to render three different lower FOV views (with the FOV matching the FOV on a single monitor), one for each monitor. Even better if the game allowed you to define the size, distance and angles of all of the monitors.

DreamsKnight
03-05-2016, 17:28
The only way to describe it is as if you turn the resolution down on your monitor from, say, 1920x1080 to 1376x768. Some objects, at the moment, also 'pop-in' quite late, so they have the effect of suddenly appearing, which can be distracting for some people.

As for FOV, I have left it on the default setting, whatever that might be and have never bothered to look at adjusting it - for me, it just feels right.

However, I only have an Oculus DK2, I haven't tried a CV1 or the HTC Vive, so take that into account when reading my comments on the graphic fidelity/quality :).

how much you see with oculus? i mean, it is studied to have a full 180 vision up/down, left/right, or you have some black zones where there aren't monitors? i have a big headache, i hope it is clear what i'm writing. -_-


It means that the image on every screen isn't rendered separately, instead the game renders one large FOV view that gets plastered on the screen, resulting in some distortion. The "optimal" way would be to render three different lower FOV views (with the FOV matching the FOV on a single monitor), one for each monitor. Even better if the game allowed you to define the size, distance and angles of all of the monitors.

understood.

i think with triple and without these options, you see the dashboard in this way:

232576

BioForce
03-05-2016, 17:46
At the moment, it also does not appear possible to record Rift footage using the usual suspects (OBD, Shadowplay etc)..

Hmm, it was no problem with OBS last time I tried.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rkZzSTQzB6g

yeah, I know - I need to practice :)

cluck
03-05-2016, 17:48
^^^ ooh, ta. I tried OBS and got absolutely nothing. I must have been being a muppet so I'll take another look, thanks :).

Jussi Viljami Karjalainen
03-05-2016, 18:35
how much you see with oculus? i mean, it is studied to have a full 180 vision up/down, left/right, or you have some black zones where there aren't monitors? i have a big headache, i hope it is clear what i'm writing. -_-The FOV of the Rift is somewhere around 110 degrees.




understood.

i think with triple and without these options, you see the dashboard in this way:

232576I'm not entirely sure what that picture is showing. =/

cluck
03-05-2016, 18:36
i think with triple and without these options, you see the dashboard in this way:

232576


I'm not entirely sure what that picture is showing. =/A sad seagull?

Charger
03-05-2016, 18:58
That 'con' comes up quite regularly, but I still maintain that most people probably don't actually look at their button boxes or wheels whilst driving - almost everybody does it by instinct. There's a very simple test you can perform, before getting a VR headset.

Sit down in your usual driving position.
Now shut your eyes.
Name a control in your head that you want to press, then reach out and press the switch or dial you think is correct.
Open your eyes
Does your hand sit on the correct switch or dial?

I'll wager that most people will do this 100% correctly if they've had a wheel or switchbox for a few weeks :).

You're right though, you do look utterly daft wearing a headset. I know you're joking of course but, like a Jaguar S-Type owner can't see what the car front looks like from the driver's seat (clue : it looks gopping (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/af/Jaguar_S-Type_front_20090128.jpg) ), neither can you see how daft you look whilst you are wearing your headset :D.

Steady on, I used to build those, one every 3 mins, must have built over 20,000 of them, and yes they are ugly, after seeing them every day for over 2 years I absolutely hate them and then about 2 months ago my uncle turns up at my door in a 3ltr SE, I had a blast in it lol.

Oh the stories I could tell.....

But triples for me, I don't know if I could go VR as I suffer motion sickness on rollercoasters etc, would love to try one out though.

Roger Prynne
03-05-2016, 19:42
A sad seagull?

Hopefully a dead seagull (I hate seagulls with a passion) :mad:

cluck
03-05-2016, 20:08
Steady on, I used to build those, one every 3 mins, must have built over 20,000 of them, and yes they are ugly, after seeing them every day for over 2 years I absolutely hate them and then about 2 months ago my uncle turns up at my door in a 3ltr SE, I had a blast in it lol.

Oh the stories I could tell.....

But triples for me, I don't know if I could go VR as I suffer motion sickness on rollercoasters etc, would love to try one out though.I drove the Type R variant on a Jaguar day (local garage basically said "here's the range, drive what you want, see you in 20 minutes for your next choice" :D) and boy was the supercharger whine addictive :D. Great fun to drive but gopping ugly to look at :(.

Mahjik
03-05-2016, 20:18
I drove the Type R variant on a Jaguar day (local garage basically said "here's the range, drive what you want, see you in 20 minutes for your next choice" :D) and boy was the supercharger whine addictive :D. Great fun to drive but gopping ugly to look at :(.

I like my Jag.... :p

http://mahjik.homestead.com/files/hosting/Jaguar/2015_06_19/PICT3858c.jpg

cluck
03-05-2016, 20:38
I like my Jag.... :p

http://mahjik.homestead.com/files/hosting/Jaguar/2015_06_19/PICT3858c.jpg That's a nice jag though ;)

Roger Prynne
03-05-2016, 20:59
I like my Jag.... :p

http://mahjik.homestead.com/files/hosting/Jaguar/2015_06_19/PICT3858c.jpg

You wish :playful:

icebear
03-05-2016, 21:15
I don't know if I could go VR as I suffer motion sickness on rollercoasters etc, would love to try one out though.

with world movement = 100, you would really be unlucky to feel motion sickness

With VR rollercoasters, i feel some sickness, but never with P Cars and this option to 100 :)

Mahjik
03-05-2016, 21:24
You wish :playful:

Don't make me throw up a license plate shot... ;)

DreamsKnight
04-05-2016, 15:57
this is the sad seagull effect. ( :rolleyes: )

232615

i don't know if it is only perspective or the dashboard isn't really orizontal between the 3 screen cause of the lack of optimization for triple.

i'd like to understand this point.

Sampo
04-05-2016, 18:54
this is the sad seagull effect. ( :rolleyes: )

i don't know if it is only perspective or the dashboard isn't really orizontal between the 3 screen cause of the lack of optimization for triple.

i'd like to understand this point.

You can't have any angle between the screens or you will have that effect, because the game renders the view as one continuous screen. If I understood your picture correctly.

232630

DreamsKnight
04-05-2016, 20:19
You can't have any angle between the screens or you will have that effect, because the game renders the view as one contiguous screen. If I understood your picture correctly.

232630

yes perfect. so i was right when i suppose that without the separate renders you have also that effect. thank you


so games with separate renders i suppose have also an option to set the side screens angles. right?

sorry for noob questions. :)

sotti
04-05-2016, 20:37
I had the DK2 before they had the full implementation for it, sold it off when I thought they were about to announce the CV1. I have a gearVR w/ a S7. I've played around with a Vive and a CV1.

So you can guess I love LOVE VR.

That said, the low resolution on the DK2 probably made finding your breaking points pretty tricky. Looking into the distance was a real challange. CV1 is much better and I think will be the better choice for sim racers compared to the Vive. I can't wait to get my hands on a CV1 at home to play pCars with.

But if lap times are all you care about the triples are still probably the way to go for now. If the immersion and sensation of driving is what you're after, VR is IT!.

Jussi Viljami Karjalainen
05-05-2016, 00:54
so games with separate renders i suppose have also an option to set the side screens angles. right?

sorry for noob questions. :)If they're doing it correctly, then yes, they should have not only angles but sizes for all screens (you can't assume they're all the same size). =)

And in the grand scheme of things these are pretty esoteric things to worry about, so no need to worry about asking. Though thinking about it in another way, all of this should be obvious to anyone with a high school math background. =)

But yeah, that's exactly the problem, with a single flat screen the projection would work better, but it breaks down due to the angles involved. Though at really high FOVs the projection breaks down anyway: Even an infinitely large flat screen wouldn't fill a 180 degree FOV, so no matter what you do the projection doesn't work perfectly for arbitrarily high FOV angles.

Jussi Viljami Karjalainen
05-05-2016, 00:56
But if lap times are all you care about the triples are still probably the way to go for now. If the immersion and sensation of driving is what you're after, VR is IT!.Eh, I haven't found compelling evidence that triples definitively help lap times compared to a single screen. IMO they're more helpful to racing awareness, but for pure lap times you can just learn the track well enough to know what to do.

Charger
05-05-2016, 03:37
If they're doing it correctly, then yes, they should have not only angles but sizes for all screens (you can't assume they're all the same size). =)

And in the grand scheme of things these are pretty esoteric things to worry about, so no need to worry about asking. Though thinking about it in another way, all of this should be obvious to anyone with a high school math background. =)

But yeah, that's exactly the problem, with a single flat screen the projection would work better, but it breaks down due to the angles involved. Though at really high FOVs the projection breaks down anyway: Even an infinitely large flat screen wouldn't fill a 180 degree FOV, so no matter what you do the projection doesn't work perfectly for arbitrarily high FOV angles.

I wonder what this would look like though for 180 degree 232653

DreamsKnight
05-05-2016, 11:24
If they're doing it correctly, then yes, they should have not only angles but sizes for all screens (you can't assume they're all the same size). =)

And in the grand scheme of things these are pretty esoteric things to worry about, so no need to worry about asking. Though thinking about it in another way, all of this should be obvious to anyone with a high school math background. =)

But yeah, that's exactly the problem, with a single flat screen the projection would work better, but it breaks down due to the angles involved. Though at really high FOVs the projection breaks down anyway: Even an infinitely large flat screen wouldn't fill a 180 degree FOV, so no matter what you do the projection doesn't work perfectly for arbitrarily high FOV angles.

my doubts come exaclty from my math school background. :D and they were right. i lack knowledge about the sims world!