PDA

View Full Version : The answer to our multi monitor and VR dreams



Beans
09-05-2016, 04:30
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6NbyEmPalA

Silraed
09-05-2016, 04:44
This should be in the off topic discussion section.

Beans
09-05-2016, 04:51
This should be in the off topic discussion section.

I figured it to be on topic sense VR and proper triple monitor support has been a technical concern for a long time.

cluck
09-05-2016, 07:06
Moved to off-topic. It's not relating to requiring support for pCARS so it doesn't belong in the 'support' section.

Alan Dallas
09-05-2016, 07:51
Needs a new nVidia GTX 1080
(http://www.gamespot.com/articles/new-600-nvidia-gtx-card-announced-faster-than-tita/1100-6439592/)
"irresponsible amounts of performance" ~Jen-Hsun Huang on announcing the GTX 1080 :D

jonston
10-05-2016, 02:41
Been watching the Nvidia Pascal 1080 presentation and they go thru a whole section about multi displays and the warp effect. do you guys think this will fix Project cars? or the software code cant be fixed?

cluck
10-05-2016, 07:58
Threads merged

Jussi Viljami Karjalainen
10-05-2016, 09:16
Good of nVidia to use Project CARS screenshots in their presentation. =)

cluck
10-05-2016, 09:31
Good of nVidia to use Project CARS screenshots in their presentation. =)Good spot Jussi :D. I must confess, I hadn't even watched the video :o

Jussi Viljami Karjalainen
10-05-2016, 09:51
Do watch it, it's a great video. Two main things that jumped out: They can now apply multimonitor correction for angled monitor layouts on a single rendering pass, no need for multiple cameras like the systems used today, which saves a ton of performance and simplifies things. They also claim they can do stereo rendering for VR in a single pass as well, apparently without having to separately render for both eyes, again increasing performance. Their demo for that showed a rendering of a highly detailed monster, that was hovering between 60-70 fps when rendered normally, then shot to a stable 95 fps when switching over to one pass stereo.

These sorts of things are why I convinced myself to wait until at least the first generation of new GPUs after the VR headsets started to come out, they've really focused on the issues of VR. =)

cluck
10-05-2016, 09:54
Do watch it, it's a great video. Two main things that jumped out: They can now apply multimonitor correction for angled monitor layouts on a single rendering pass, no need for multiple cameras like the systems used today, which saves a ton of performance and simplifies things. They also claim they can do stereo rendering for VR in a single pass as well, apparently without having to separately render for both eyes, again increasing performance. Their demo for that showed a rendering of a highly detailed monster, that was hovering between 60-70 fps when rendered normally, then shot to a stable 95 fps when switching over to one pass stereo.

These sorts of things are why I convinced myself to wait until at least the first generation of new GPUs after the VR headsets started to come out, they've really focused on the issues of VR. =)I watched it, yep, after seeing you mention pCARS :).

re. the multimonitor correction, I have no idea how that stuff works, having always used a single screen. The VR stuff though, that did look extremely promising. I'm looking at my 'lowly' 980GTX now and thinking "I wonder if this will be worth anything at all in 6 month's time :cry: " :D.

TrevorAustin
10-05-2016, 10:24
Looks like this will fix the triple monitor support, and the 1070 will out perform the TitanX.

Only a few weeks to wait :)

Jussi Viljami Karjalainen
10-05-2016, 10:47
re. the multimonitor correction, I have no idea how that stuff works, having always used a single screen.It works pretty much like how they show in the video. Normally the rendered view is only correct for a flat plane (so all monitors line up with each other) and it gets distorted in the corners when angling the monitors towards yourself. The traditional methods for counteracting this so far have essentially been rendering a separate camera viewport for each monitor so that all of them get their separate accurate projections, but this is of course a bit complicated and has quite a few performance implications. nVidia's system is kinda doing the same thing with the multiple viewports, but their methods allow them to do it in a single pass with very high efficiency, creating almost no extra performance hit compared to a traditional flat screen projection of the same field of view. On top of that it means that the developers don't have to worry about it as much as before, they can just let the GPU handle it. =)

cluck
10-05-2016, 11:02
I still don't get it - as in, why does the image distort. But I'm not going to worry about it - I don't need to know, so I won't worry my pretty little head about it :D

Jussi Viljami Karjalainen
10-05-2016, 12:01
I still don't get it - as in, why does the image distort. But I'm not going to worry about it - I don't need to know, so I won't worry my pretty little head about it :DAh, well that's fairly simple to explain. You're taking a flat perspective projection like this:

232909

And by angling the monitors you're doing this to it:

232910

You're taking the projection that works as a flat one and creating kinks in it, making it stop working. The system here knows how your monitors are set up, their size and angles relative to each other, and compensates for this, so you still get a projection without any distorted and bent lines even on angled monitors. =)

EDIT: Further picture, in the original you can see how the perspective works, all the lines point towards a common vanishing point. With the distortion created by the angles between the different "monitors" you now end up with multiple vanishing points (plus the lack of a proper ruler preventing me from actually making the lines point in the right direction in the first place...):

232913

cluck
10-05-2016, 12:10
Ah, OK, that makes sense, even for my stupid brain :D. Cheers Jussi :yes:

ELAhrairah
10-05-2016, 16:17
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6NbyEmPalA#t=623.604508

Bealdor
10-05-2016, 16:23
Threads merged.

jonston
10-05-2016, 23:42
so how is it a game like Assetto Corsa can get it rightwith multi monitors but project cars has to wait for new hardware?

i would think that its written in the software how to display on the monitors and have nothing to do with the hardware?

Silraed
11-05-2016, 06:00
In the past it has had to be done on the software side, but it has a big hit to performance because it is rendering three separate screens. pCARS doesn't have it because it would have meant huge changes to the games engine, think of it as an oversight during development.

What nvidia are doing is bringing this to the driver/hardware level which has never been done before, it is supposed to me very efficient compared to the old way of doing it and it will make it far easier for developers to implement it into their games.

Dakpilot
11-05-2016, 11:05
Pure speculation, but i would not have thought it as an "oversight' but simple real world economics, it is a lot of work to get it done right, and unusable for most of the player base (no triples on PS4 or Xbox1 and in reality small on PC) Am certain it would have been very desired as a launch feature by dev's, but too costly to implement considering budget, scope and timescale of Pcars developement

especially if they probably had knowledge of future Nvidia tech, and potential future of VR, a realistic case of diminishing returns, from the start AC was really PC only, their 'triple market' was much larger at release

Cheers Dakpilot

Silraed
11-05-2016, 13:51
They developed the game, then went back to look at adding the feature and found out that the way they had written the game was not compatible and would have required significant work and investment to get it working.
I would call that an oversight.

I highly doubt anybody outside of NVIDIA had even an inkling of NVIDIA's plans for this feature either, let alone years ago when SMS were developing the game. Also even with VR here triple monitor setups will still be around for a long time.

Qxs
12-05-2016, 20:36
Pretty awesome Nvidia release, I will be looking at moving from 970 to 1070 once I allocate some funding. :)
I'm too far removed from the technical details, but it sounds like the end of the line for ATI under AMD, not only have not followed Polaris, but after this announcement, I just don't care what they will be bringing.

Hopefully these cards work as we think they will...

Ian Bell
13-05-2016, 02:39
In the past it has had to be done on the software side, but it has a big hit to performance because it is rendering three separate screens. pCARS doesn't have it because it would have meant huge changes to the games engine, think of it as an oversight during development.

What nvidia are doing is bringing this to the driver/hardware level which has never been done before, it is supposed to me very efficient compared to the old way of doing it and it will make it far easier for developers to implement it into their games.

It's absolutely not an oversight.

Our engine was a prepass deferred engine which does not lend itself to multiple displays. We have since almost completely rewritten it for pCARS2 though.

The reason we didn't push forward with wedging multiscreens into pCARS1? Well maybe we knew this was on the way from nVIDIA and couldn't say so because of NDAs ;)

Ian Bell
13-05-2016, 02:40
They developed the game, then went back to look at adding the feature and found out that the way they had written the game was not compatible and would have required significant work and investment to get it working.
I would call that an oversight.

I highly doubt anybody outside of NVIDIA had even an inkling of NVIDIA's plans for this feature either, let alone years ago when SMS were developing the game. Also even with VR here triple monitor setups will still be around for a long time.

Again, not really. It's only an oversight if you think a solution isn't imminent.

Silraed
13-05-2016, 08:33
I stand corrected then from the man himself. I gladly eat my words for making assumptions :).

Silraed
13-05-2016, 08:44
I stand corrected then from the man himself. I gladly eat my words for making assumptions :).

On the topic of the simultaneous multi-projection, I fear it will create yet another divide between AMD and nvidia users ala Gameworks. I still kind of view games that heavily invest in the propriety nvidia features a bit of a cop out.

RomKnight
13-05-2016, 14:34
I have a gtx780 and the 1070 will already be a huge update... when it arrives. The price seems more than reasonable on the lower end one but I wonder what the price will be on the 1080 as it won't be double the performance - I guess - but I'm afraid it'll double, or more, the price (and that would be hard to justify).

Maybe they're waiting on what AMD brings (ywah right...) to give them the final blow on the price :D I'm smiling but it isn't funny. I hope they can keep competition otherwise we're screwed on the prices. The only good Monopoly is from Hasbro ;)

poirqc
18-05-2016, 17:10
I have a gtx780 and the 1070 will already be a huge update... when it arrives. The price seems more than reasonable on the lower end one but I wonder what the price will be on the 1080 as it won't be double the performance - I guess - but I'm afraid it'll double, or more, the price (and that would be hard to justify).

Maybe they're waiting on what AMD brings (ywah right...) to give them the final blow on the price :D I'm smiling but it isn't funny. I hope they can keep competition otherwise we're screwed on the prices. The only good Monopoly is from Hasbro ;)

Depends with who you play with! I've never played it again since an "incident". :D

Joshua Healy
18-05-2016, 22:43
Only just got around to watching the video... What's the most fascinating bit of info I got out of the video?

"Wicky Wonky" is a technical term for "That's wrong". :cool:

xanthian
28-05-2016, 18:50
Again, not really. It's only an oversight if you think a solution isn't imminent.

Is this to say that SMP is officially coming to pCARS1?

I imagine it would be handy for single pass stereo and lens pre-distortion as the VR performance has been less than stellar so far. Credit where it's due though, support for Vive was implemented in a very timely fashion and I respect the platform agnosticism.

But I can already feel the Team Red hate since Nvidia already offers superior framerates with this game as-is. Let's hope Polaris has equivalents like freesync.

jonston
29-05-2016, 14:13
so has anyone tried it yet? ive ordered my card already but no stock at the momwnt :(

VFX Pro
30-05-2016, 14:55
I'm also waiting for someone to tell me if the multi-projection settings are inside the NVIDIA settings or if the PCARS needs to be modified to take advantage of this triple monitor feature?

Please share you feedback if you are one of the lucky few with the GTX 1080.

Spiderx
31-05-2016, 00:48
so basically with an 1080 or 1070 you will no longer need to define a game that suports 3 monitors as multi view ? single view will do it ? without software changes ?

That may actually make me wanna sell my 980Ti and go to an 1080... simply because like pcars theres a series of other sims that also do not support triple view and this would fix it ( too good to be true ) , and also would mean a huge increase of performance on the ones that already do since we would simply use single view..... mmmmm

Are you guyz sure this doesnt need any change to the software ?

jonston
31-05-2016, 08:10
thats the question we are all waiting to be answered, Hopefull Ian can come in a reply for us :)

I run 3x benq xr3501, and the warping in horrible not to mention im on on low to medium settings with a i7 6700k and a Titan X to get 60fps. i want to play on high to ultra at over 60fps :)

Alan Dallas
31-05-2016, 15:46
Here's another excellent description on how the Simultaneous Multi-Projection Engine works.
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/nvidia-geforce-gtx-1080-pascal,4572-3.html

The only thing I'm still uncertain about is if there is still some call that has to be written in software to tell the Pascal architecture to perform a Simultaneous Multi-Projection pass. I don't think it's some magic wand where it'll work on any game ever written.

Exoil
31-05-2016, 15:59
Here's another excellent description on how the Simultaneous Multi-Projection Engine works.
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/nvidia-geforce-gtx-1080-pascal,4572-3.html

The only thing I'm still uncertain about is if there is still some call that has to be written in software to tell the Pascal architecture to perform a Simultaneous Multi-Projection pass. I don't think it's some magic wand where it'll work on any game ever written.

"Certain parts of GP104 affect the performance of every game we test today—the increased core count, its clock rate and Nvidia’s work to enable 10 Gb/s GDDR5X. Other features can’t be demonstrated yet, but have big implications for the future. Those are the tough ones to assign value to in a review. Nevertheless, the Pascal architecture incorporates several capabilities that we can’t wait to see show up in shipping games."

"Nvidia calls the first its Simultaneous Multi-Projection Engine."

"The catch is that an application must support wide FOV settings and use SMP API calls. That means game developers have to embrace the feature before you can enjoy it. We’re not sure how much effort will go into accommodating the relative few folks gaming in Surround."


I'd say it won't work without the developers patching the game, or already have it built in.

jonston
02-06-2016, 10:39
My GTX 1080 arrived today. ill install it tonight and will post my findings.

Sparco
02-06-2016, 12:55
My GTX 1080 arrived today. ill install it tonight and will post my findings.

Any chance you would run some benches ;)
Different AA, weather, cars, resolutions etc? There are almost no benchies that are relevant to PCars / ultra wide / triples with different AA settings etc and that would be a HUGE help to those of us still out in the cold :)

jonston
02-06-2016, 13:24
sorry :( im not that technically minded. i can provide my settings and my fps reported by steam. im more interested in trying to find SMP settings in the nvidia software so i can get my triples looking right.

Sparco
02-06-2016, 14:20
sorry :( im not that technically minded. i can provide my settings and my fps reported by steam. im more interested in trying to find SMP settings in the nvidia software so i can get my triples looking right.

Fair enough,
Perhaps another 1080 owner can help out a bit with some news on how the 1080 works with PCars :)

jonston
02-06-2016, 15:25
Ok, so after looking for about 20 mins in software configurations i did not see anything about SMP :( i might post it in the technical support area and hopefully a member of the development team can help me.

My pc specs are as follows

i7 6700k
16gb ddr4 3000mhz
asus z170 pro gaming
240gb ssd
corsair ax1200 psu
asus gtx 1080
3x benq xr3501
fanatec csw v2
fanatec v3 pedals
fanatec shifter sq
pagnian v2 motion on gt ultimate frame

Project cars settings
7680x1080 @143hz
all special effects on
msaa
aa 16x
smaa off
high to ultra settings with on grass set to low
render frames ahead was 3

before with my titan x i was getting average 60fps, with it sometimes dropping to 53fps and reaching 72fps

same settings with my gtx 1080 i am getting average 85fps with low points of 75fps and highs of 95fps

i let the geforce software optimise my settings and it set smaa to ultra and render frames back to 1. performance dropped a bit but it did look a bit better.

sorry i am unable to provide videos or screen shots, i did try to capture but i suck and failed.

so am i happy with the 1080? Yes i am, but am disappointed that nvidia promised me much more at their presentation video claiming to be faster then 2 980's and SMP which i was so excited about but dont know how to get working, and if its even supports project cars

cluck
02-06-2016, 15:35
It doesn't look like SMP will work without specific code being added to a game to support it. See posts #36 (http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?46946-The-answer-to-our-multi-monitor-and-VR-dreams&p=1283633&viewfull=1#post1283633) and #37 (http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?46946-The-answer-to-our-multi-monitor-and-VR-dreams&p=1283642&viewfull=1#post1283642) in this very thread :)

jonston
02-06-2016, 15:48
yes, so i hope a patch is imminent. Ian bells answer suggests that he already knew this was coming so surely it is possible :)

VFX Pro
03-06-2016, 04:42
Yes, please release a small patch for PCars 1 to support multi-projections since it might be a year or more before we see PCars 2.

ELAhrairah
04-06-2016, 20:08
A very very very small patch for the three screens elite club please Pcars team :D

Bealdor
06-06-2016, 07:49
A very very very small patch for the three screens elite club please Pcars team :D

http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?47531-GTX-1080-with-triple-monitors-and-simultaneous-multi-projection-question&p=1285064&viewfull=1#post1285064