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cluck
12-05-2016, 16:15
You now have a dedicated thread to discuss the HTC Vive, which received official support in Project CARS with Patch 11 - Link to patch 11 notes (http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?47082-Project-CARS-PC-Patch-11-0-Release-Notes-HTC-Vive-support-is-here)

Who's got one? Who's tried the patch? How is it working for you? Any tips, tricks you have to share, share them here :)

Bealdor edit:


Due to the extent of the Virtual Reality updates, we strongly recommend that you delete the configuration files that store the various settings. These are found in "\Users\<username>\Documents\Project CARS" and are the files with XML extension.

Schadows
12-05-2016, 17:06
Ok that's it, I'm leaving work early today ! Gotta try this baby asap ^^

JAMF
12-05-2016, 17:37
Thank you for adding Vive support.

Sadly, now pCARS starts windowed and it can't be made to run full screen in native 5760x1080? A screenshot of the menu screen is 2160x1200, so it appears to be locked to the Vive's combined resolution?

I noticed the reflection in the LCD display (BMW Z4 GT3) showed some white/red, which I think were barriers or curbstones? (Donnington GP, standing still before last turn)

Bealdor
12-05-2016, 17:39
Did you delete your config files as suggested in the patch notes thread (http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?47082-Project-CARS-PC-Patch-11-0-Release-Notes-HTC-Vive-support-is-here)?

JAMF
12-05-2016, 17:44
Did you delete your config files as suggested in the patch notes thread (http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?47082-Project-CARS-PC-Patch-11-0-Release-Notes-HTC-Vive-support-is-here)?

I did delete the first two, but not the Oculus and OpenVR ones. The "graphicsconfigopenvrdx11" returned, but the other one, of which I forgot the name) is MIA?


[EDIT] Found it in the recycle bin, called "graphicsconfigdx11".

[EDIT 2] After deleting all the XML files, then starting pCARS from Steam library and selecting the first option (non-VR), the game starts full screen again. :cool:
The graphicsconfigdx11.xml has reappeared.

After activating VR and starting pCARS in VR mode, both the openVR settings reappeared too. All is well! :cool:

surtic86
12-05-2016, 17:57
Thanks for the HTC VIVE Support!

Short test and it works...

But what Resolution do you use for Window Mode? I don't get a nice Setup for this without distorcer.

MarshallMcBride
12-05-2016, 18:46
Just tried a nice race with the HTC Vive. I'm really impressed how much more fun it is to race in VR (even though the resolution isn't that high in the first VR generation).
I like the way the user interface is integrated in the 3d world. Not annoying but locatable if you need it.

The one thing that impressed me most is that I seem to drive significantly better with VR. Being able to incline my head in the direction of the curves and the better sense of speed you get seem to improve my driving results.

One thing I noticed is that the sun is really bright when driving at sunset, is there an option to dimm the sun light in that situation without reducing overall brightness?. Shielding the eyes with my hands didn't work and I wasn't able to open the sun visor :-)

Bealdor
12-05-2016, 18:54
You could try to turn off some of the visual FX like lens flare, sun flare, bloom or prepuscular rays. I'm not sure which exact one will help you but I'm sure one if them does.

museumsteve
12-05-2016, 21:00
What resolution should we be using?

JAMF
12-05-2016, 21:22
If you launch for the Vive, it's automatic (or should be).

If for the desktop, it appears there is a bug, stretching a 2160x1200 windowed view to the width of your selected resolution.

Robes
12-05-2016, 21:50
Guys, thanks very much for adding this support.

I'm having some problems getting a smooth framerate. I have everything turned to the lowest setting or off entirely and witha field of ten opponents I'm getting choppiness. This is with a i5 6600K @ 4.2GHz, R9 Nano and 16 Gb RAM.

Anyone had any joy getting it to run smoothly?

Schadows
12-05-2016, 22:39
Ok, So I tried it.

Tested on my favorite track : Spa, with a full grid but starting at the middle.
Had to put everything to low / off otherwise I would noticed the framerate issues.

It worked, but I'm kind of disappointed (expected more). The immersion is clearly increased, but the resolution is clearly lacking (does the game use the resolution settings or is it rendered at native helmet resolution no matter what?).
Also, it stutters like hell when the race results or the pause menu is displayed.

I also have to inquire about some issue with my wheel.
if I try to change the button mapping (just trying to map the MOTEC cycling to a button on the wheel), I loose the wheel calibration completely (the pedals works fine), and I can't calibrate it unless I go to another wheel (like the blue logitech wheel), calibrate, and go back to the G25 to do the same, but I loose the button mapping I did.
Not sure if it is during VR only on a general bug.

Edit : Is there a way to disable the wheel when SteamVR dashboard is displayed? It prevents from doing almost everything.

surtic86
13-05-2016, 05:17
I have also most of the Settings on low just Antialiasing is on DX2X. Was also on Spa with 11,17,21,23 Cars Formula Renault 3.5 / Renault Megan..... and was really smooth no Framedrops or so. But i hope the performance will get better in the Feature like it was on the DK2.

Bealdor
13-05-2016, 05:43
Have you guys deleted your graphicsconfig files as recommended in the patch notes?

surtic86
13-05-2016, 05:50
Nope... was just looking at the Changes and not the long Text above. Will make this tonight and look how it feels then.

Robes
13-05-2016, 05:58
First thing I did was delete the graphics config files.

Schadows
13-05-2016, 09:12
Yes, i deleted all the xml files in the My Docs>Project CARS directory.

museumsteve
13-05-2016, 12:30
Most of the time I cannot get it to launch. I run SteamVR choose pCARS and select Vive and it's as if I haven't done anything. I look in task manager and nothing has started. Could do with some pointers ;)

Schadows
13-05-2016, 13:33
Have you tried to launch the game directly from within the helmet (SteamVR) ?

museumsteve
13-05-2016, 13:39
Have you tried to launch the game directly from within the helmet (SteamVR) ?

No..I will try that. I assume I need to use the Vive controller to do that? I've only been playing room scale since I got my Vive so seated is new for me (in another room) and I just connected 1 base station

Schadows
13-05-2016, 15:15
Indeed, you will need one of the controllers to be active to interact with the Steam dashboard.
I have left the Vive in room scale mode while playing pcars and it worked fine. I will try with standing mode next time

speedMATS
13-05-2016, 15:16
I've been running PCars via Revive recently which worked well, though everything on Low. Now the patch is out, could Revive be getting in the way of a better experience and should I remove it?

Cheers in advance for any advice.

PzR Slim
13-05-2016, 15:53
I've been running PCars via Revive recently which worked well, though everything on Low. Now the patch is out, could Revive be getting in the way of a better experience and should I remove it?

Cheers in advance for any advice.

I removed the three files that came with the revive solution and then ran an integrity check before launching the game. As seems to be working perfectly for me without deleting the XML files.

speedMATS
13-05-2016, 15:59
I removed the three files that came with the revive solution and then ran an integrity check before launching the game. As seems to be working perfectly for me without deleting the XML files.

Good shout. Ill try that tonight and see the outcome.

museumsteve
13-05-2016, 16:32
Indeed, you will need one of the controllers to be active to interact with the Steam dashboard.
I have left the Vive in room scale mode while playing pcars and it worked fine. I will try with standing mode next time

Thanks for the replies mate. It's all working fine now that I'm launching through the HMD. After looking into it further I found that vrdashboard was not starting so I couldn't launch through headset. I started it (directly) and it's now fine.
My room scale setup is in a different room, otherwise I'd leave it as it is.
One issue is that if my wheel (Fanatec CSW) is on then I cannot select anything in VR dashboard using the Vive controller so I have to turn the wheel off, start the game and then turn my wheel on again..rather frustrating when wanting to have the Vive on

JAMF
13-05-2016, 16:36
One observation (besides the LCD acting like a rear view mirror) : the mirrors are very 2D and don't change when you change your head position. :)

Eddy555
13-05-2016, 17:32
This looks waaay better than with the Revive patch

dest
13-05-2016, 18:00
Bought the game last night when i saw it had vive support. The experience even on low graphics (have not tried pushing it up) has been amazing.

There have been one or two issues though.

I have watched videos of other people launching game from within vr and a 2d screen comes up immediately within vr showing title screens etc. However for me when i launch from within vr, nothing appears. The image appears back over on the monitor. On returning to the monitor if i skip past the cutscenes and start a free run or any other race from the menu then when i put the headset on the game will be running correctly. additionally, if i quit out of said race i will be returned to steam vr and the 2d plane will be correctly present within vr.

The game seems to forget the setting you choose for whether to recentre the view at the start of races.

Lastly i played a number of races with a friend who also bought the game (not a vr user) , when i tried to set up a lobby the game crashed steam steam vr or vice versa. after that attempting to start the game in vr would crash steam vr. launching it in non vr, then trying to launch it in VR corrected the issue. Of the 5-6 races we played the game only transitioned between races successfully once. On the other occasions the loading bar in the bottom right would not animate and the icon indicating my gaze tracking would not move (though i could move my head fine inside steam vr.

Needless to say, i have no intent to wildly smash my arms around while hyperventilating. It's the first try at vive support so there are bound to be issues. The experience of being in the cockpit is A-fucking- mazing though for someone like me who has never played a car game in vr. Thank you so much for bringing it to the vive. you have probably also sold a gtx 1070 and i want to be able to crank the setting on this up up up to do it justice.

Patrick Kulinski
13-05-2016, 18:48
One observation (besides the LCD acting like a rear view mirror) : the mirrors are very 2D and don't change when you change your head position. :)

Do you mean that your mirror image doens't change when you move your head? This is intended. What you see is a small extra screen which shows what you'd see from a certain point mounted to the car. Ray tracing, which would be necessary for creating a life-like mirror most likely would be too heavy on the GPU.

Schadows
13-05-2016, 19:58
I've been running PCars via Revive recently which worked well, though everything on Low. Now the patch is out, could Revive be getting in the way of a better experience and should I remove it?I haven't tried with Revive files still present, but that's clearly a bad idea to leave them. SMS developed their vive implementation without any consideration for this. At best, nothing happen, but most probably, their will be conflicts.
I delete those 3 files, deleted the XML config files (their not part of files integrity check and could still present some conflict with their new VR implementation), and it works fine.

By the way, the Revive rendering was sub-Low. Even at low settings, you don't get that close draw distance and that close LOD switch in the game, so the v11.0 patch is doing miracles here.


One issue is that if my wheel (Fanatec CSW) is on then I cannot select anything in VR dashboard using the Vive controller so I have to turn the wheel off, start the game and then turn my wheel on again..rather frustrating when wanting to have the Vive onYes, I raised it earlier, but I have the same problem with my G25 (that and another one about calibration and button mapping edition).


One observation (besides the LCD acting like a rear view mirror) : the mirrors are very 2D and don't change when you change your head position. :)

Do you mean that your mirror image doens't change when you move your head? This is intended. What you see is a small extra screen which shows what you'd see from a certain point mounted to the car. Ray tracing, which would be necessary for creating a life-like mirror most likely would be too heavy on the GPU.
Indeed, mirrors are 2D images and represent the rear view (hence you won't see cars in it which are on your side and this is puzzling when trying to figure out if someone is there or not).
Implementing a view which would change with the position of your head would not require ray tracing (just a rear view cam rotation), but since you're not supposed to move around your head that much, I suppose it's not on the todo list for pcars 1.
Let's hope pcars 2 will have a better mirror implementation (at least a 3D feeling to it).

hookman
13-05-2016, 20:00
I just gave this patch a go. The UI is much nicer to navigate now, the head cursor works very well!

I'm using a Vive now, I used to use a DK2 so have something to compare to...

- The graphics (lighting etc.) looks nicer than I remember, almost regardless of what settings level I choose

- The resolution looks quite low in the Vive, lower than I remember the DK2 being. This may not be the case, it may just be that every other game (bar elite) is optimised for the Vive resolution, and so I have kinda forgotten what it looks like when looking at small stuff or things in the distance

- I struggle to get a smooth frame rate at 90fps. I have to have everything on low to get there in a race with say 15 cars. I'm not too surprised, as going from 75fps (on the DK2) up to 90fps (on the Vive) is quite a jump.

- Turning reprojection on (in steam settings) means I drop no frames even on high settings (no AA though). However, whatever settings I run reprojection seems stuck on 45fps. I was under the impression it should jump up to 90fps when it can, I'm not seeing this happen.


So really I have 2 options:
1 - run everything on low and suffer a few frame drops but generally 90fps
2 - run everything on high and live with 45fps reprojected


Neither is a particularly good solution. Fortunately the pascal GTX 1080 is here to hopefully save the day soon!

JAMF
13-05-2016, 21:35
Do you mean that your mirror image doens't change when you move your head? This is intended. What you see is a small extra screen which shows what you'd see from a certain point mounted to the car. Ray tracing, which would be necessary for creating a life-like mirror most likely would be too heavy on the GPU.

Well, it works in a game like Arma3, so it doesn't need to be raytracing, just a variable camera position?

neelrocker
13-05-2016, 23:41
Implementing a view which would change with the position of your head would not require ray tracing (just a rear view cam rotation)
+1


but since you're not supposed to move around your head that much, I suppose it's not on the todo list for pcars 1.
Let's hope pcars 2 will have a better mirror implementation (at least a 3D feeling to it).
i hope they do it for pcars1 if it's not that a heavy task.

Thoemse
14-05-2016, 05:56
Unplayable with AMD gpu. As expected knowing how shitty AMD is optimized by the Devs this is a juddery mess. All you can do is play time trial.
My System:
i7 3770k @4.6Ghz 16GB Ram
Fury X

I can't believe theynever bothered to fix AMD performance after release. And yes I know what the Devs wrote about it and I am not buying it. If a 970 GTX outperforms a fury X it is very poor coding and nothing else.

Cap Loz
14-05-2016, 08:45
I get a problem when launching PR in VR.
If I try using the "Launch Project CARS - HTC Vive using Steam VR Mode" I get the Unhandled Exception Error message.
Using the Oculus option it launches.
Why is that, and what are we missing by launching it this way?

Ian Bell
14-05-2016, 10:03
Unplayable with AMD gpu. As expected knowing how shitty AMD is optimized by the Devs this is a juddery mess. All you can do is play time trial.
My System:
i7 3770k @4.6Ghz 16GB Ram
Fury X

I can't believe theynever bothered to fix AMD performance after release. And yes I know what the Devs wrote about it and I am not buying it. If a 970 GTX outperforms a fury X it is very poor coding and nothing else.

The devs have optimised the AMD cards as much as they possibly can given our engine. They are seriously good at what they do and they leave nothing on the table believe me. The issue is related to our high draw call count and the fact that Nvidia use lower level drivers, talking directly to the hardware (arguably bypassing some recommended restrictions) when AMD don't avail of the same. We're not about to reduce draw call counts as the world is coming to us with DX12 and more efficient functionality here in Windows 10. That will automatically benefit those on AMD hardware.

The crux, be careful where you apportion blame. If it could be made faster, it would have been.

You can 'not buy it' all you want, but the above are the facts.

Thoemse
14-05-2016, 10:44
Oh i am totally awareof the draw call issue. It is something a coder has to keep in mind when making a game though. It is still shoddy programming. If you are developing a game and you see that your drawcalls are getting outof hand you can react. Others seem to do just fine, keeping the problems in check.

We will see DX12 support.... with pcars2.

Robes
14-05-2016, 12:58
The devs have optimised the AMD cards as much as they possibly can given our engine. They are seriously good at what they do and they leave nothing on the table believe me. The issue is related to our high draw call count and the fact that Nvidia use lower level drivers, talking directly to the hardware (arguably bypassing some recommended restrictions) when AMD don't avail of the same. We're not about to reduce draw call counts as the world is coming to us with DX12 and more efficient functionality here in Windows 10. That will automatically benefit those on AMD hardware.

The crux, be careful where you apportion blame. If it could be made faster, it would have been.

You can 'not buy it' all you want, but the above are the facts.

Bummer, I didn't realise there was any deficit for AMD users, I guess because The Nano has a lot of grunt for what it is. In Pcars VR mode it hasn't performed though. Is DX12 coming to Pcars 1?

Schadows
14-05-2016, 18:09
DX12 isn't coming to pcars 1. That requires a complete engine overhaul, and there is no sense (economically) to do it for a game already released a year ago with a sequel coming next year.

I do remember that when the first win10 (technical release) AMD drivers were released, there was a huge gain in performance (even when retroported to win8.1), but the gain was much less in the final release of their drivers.
But it's clear that the latest AMD card and drivers perform way better in DX12 than they were in DX11 (compared to nvidia cards).


Back to the Vive, I do get the impression (maybe it's just that) that the resolution is lower than in other games & demos, but that may be because you mostly look far in the distance in pcars, I don't know, but it feels lower (so much lower than disabling or not DSx2 AA doesn't feel that different).
That may the rendering barely acceptable to play, but thankfully, the immersion it brings, counter balance that.

One thing that might be useful to counter that low resolution would be to disabled/remove fences. all they looks like in the helmet are flickering strings.

PS : how do you keep track of the FPS?
Are you looking a some afterburner recording afterwards, or somethings like this, or are you displaying the framerate directly in the helmet (and if it is, how do you do that).

GT-Force
14-05-2016, 18:45
Now that I could experience my life-long dream of sitting in a McLaren F1, the low-res experience made me feel nostalgic, reminding me of this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=drLKG0EKKMg :)

At least, I was not seeing the individual pixels right up my nose (quite literally, in this case) with my C64 on a TV.

It also made me realize that if the graphics of a racing game made today were this plain and simple, it'd probably look better in Vive. Sigh...

I really really hope that in ~5 years we'll have HMDs with at least quadrupled resolution.

Until then, every single time I play, I will have to decide between really crappy resolution and the feeling of being there, or, really nice graphics but looking at a 2D screen. We cannot yet have our cake and eat it, too. :(

Ian Bell
14-05-2016, 19:14
Oh i am totally awareof the draw call issue. It is something a coder has to keep in mind when making a game though. It is still shoddy programming. If you are developing a game and you see that your drawcalls are getting outof hand you can react. Others seem to do just fine, keeping the problems in check.

We will see DX12 support.... with pcars2.

OK, shoddy programming it is then :) Which works perfect well on Nvidia drivers and runs more on screen, more efficiently, than most engines.

Seriously... We don't write to the graphics card. We write to the DX API. What happens after that is out of our hands.

Puffpirat
14-05-2016, 19:17
shoddy programming of AMD of course :p

Schadows
14-05-2016, 22:18
Aren't the consoles equipped with AMD chipset?

SMS must be quite wicked here ^__^'

Ian Bell
15-05-2016, 01:08
Aren't the consoles equipped with AMD chipset?

SMS must be quite wicked here ^__^'

They are :) And much less powered AMD kit than pretty much everyone would have in their PC. The difference is drivers that give us access to lower levels than on PC. The issue is partially OS and partially DX11 restrictions and partially drivers. The first two will improve massively with DX12 and Windows 10 automatically and I have no doubt AMD will work on their side also.

JAMF
15-05-2016, 10:54
So has it been confirmed somewhere that pCARS1 isn't receiving the DX12 update? If not, will all tracks and cars from pCARS1 be present in pCARS2?

Schadows
15-05-2016, 17:09
Yes, I think it was explicitly said in the dedicated thread, pcars 1 won't receive a dx12 patch, way too much work to be done.

As for the tracks and cars, SMS want to keep them all in pcars 2 (after all the work is already done), but some might be have to be removed due to licensing constraints.

Schadows
16-05-2016, 18:38
Little tips found in the steam thread, having your pedals configured as "combined" in the device manager (not in the game) remove the problem with the steam dashbord. You can now navigate with the Vive controllers even with your wheel connected.

Rofas
16-05-2016, 19:56
Unplayable with AMD gpu. As expected knowing how shitty AMD is optimized by the Devs this is a juddery mess. All you can do is play time trial.
My System:
i7 3770k @4.6Ghz 16GB Ram
Fury X

I can't believe theynever bothered to fix AMD performance after release. And yes I know what the Devs wrote about it and I am not buying it. If a 970 GTX outperforms a fury X it is very poor coding and nothing else.


What exactly is unplayable? If it is, check your system, it may be faulty. AMD did improve their drivers, the difference isn't that big anymore to Nvidia.

Jacknoll
17-05-2016, 00:34
I loaded up Projects Cars with the Vive yesterday and made sure all my settings were at their highest (the way I usually run them without VR). I use 2560x1440 as resolution. The menu screens seem to display well, sort of like a large poster board. However, the visuals in-game seem to be utterly low res, they almost remind me of 90s SEGA games. I'll update this post once I get home and take a screenshot, but it feels like I'm in 2D, with a lot of jaggies, and I can't read any of the signs. I deleted the config files like in the Vive thread.

Does anyone else have this problem or solved it?

PC Specs: Intel i7 6700K | Gigabyte G1 980Ti | Gigabyte GA-Z170X-Gaming 7

Schadows
17-05-2016, 09:26
There is nothing to do here. The low res effect is due to the resolution of the screens and the distance at which you are seeing it from (a few centimeters).
There is also the fact that, contrary to other games, most of the action takes place far in the distance, which makes this effect worse (little models displayed upon only a few pixels).

But I'm surprised you could play without any stutter with all settings at their highest ("resolution" is the one for the mirrored image on the monitor), even with a 980Ti.

Thoemse
17-05-2016, 11:15
What exactly is unplayable? If it is, check your system, it may be faulty. AMD did improve their drivers, the difference isn't that big anymore to Nvidia.

Unplayable like: positional tracking judder that would make you vomit within 10 minutes. It works fine on time trial. Start a race with 20 cars and performance is bad. This is with the HTC Vive mind you. It runs perfectly fine in flat 2D. My PC is perfectly fine. I got tons of games and not one has any issues. If you check out reddit you will see that Vive users with AMD GPUs all experience the same.

Since some people think it is better to blame AMD for the bad AMD performance: Makes me wonder why AMD does not have to "fix" their drivers for Asseto Corsa or pretty much any other racing game I own then? I guess the AMD drivers only fail to work with Project Cars. Funny that.

surtic86
17-05-2016, 12:43
It works fine for me with a FX 8350 and R9 390... sure all is on low except Antialiasing.

fatbobbybob
17-05-2016, 15:05
Like lots of people have stated the immersion is incredible but the resolution is disappointing. I'm assuming WMD are running at the native Vive resolution. I definitely got flashbacks to playing Virtua Racing at the Troccadero in those massive sit down cabinets. If you look at the car interiors though it does look nice, to see the rain hitting the side of the windshield in VR is an awesome experience. The lighting is also intact and looks fantastic. I guess we've just got to wait for the panel resolution to improve for the whole thing to look better. There's a nice test of the new 1080 and Pcars in VR http://www.roadtovr.com/nvidia-gtx-1080-benchmark-review-performance-head-to-head-against-the-980ti/3/#project-cars

Schadows
17-05-2016, 15:30
Surprisingly, there is not much of an improvement without AA. I know the 10xx gen comes with a feature to improve VR experience (SMPE) that needs to be explicitely used/coded, but I still expected a little more gain.
At least, the difference is obvious as soon as you crank up the AA settings.

Patrick Kulinski
17-05-2016, 15:45
To anybody experiencing judder with positional tracking while having the settings maxed out: a guy on Steam found out that as soon as you put the grass detail back to "medium", the judder disappears. In general, this seems to be a framerate issue.

hookman
17-05-2016, 18:58
There's a nice test of the new 1080 and Pcars in VR http://www.roadtovr.com/nvidia-gtx-1080-benchmark-review-performance-head-to-head-against-the-980ti/3/#project-cars
This looks to be showing up project cars as still CPU bound in VR.

Even with the GTX 1080 that should blow away a 980Ti, there is next to no difference when running with a grid full of cars and neither card can sustain 90fps.

I'm starting to think we'll never have the hardware to play this game properly in VR, perhaps we should come back in 5 years time!

Schadows
17-05-2016, 19:33
Indeed, the benchmark world have given a better understanding of the gpu full potential with a better cpu (8 cores 5960k?), but using a 6700k is closer to what people might be equipped with.

As for the 5 years, you have to remember this is only the beginning of VR. We will probably see huge improvements in the next couple of years. Even the new hardware features of the 1080 (Simultaneous Multi-projection and Lens Matched Shading) which nvidia claims to give twice the performances of the Titan X in VR hasn't been used by games yet.

Not to forget that pcars Ŧsuffersŧ from High number of drawcalls, which aérée Il-sung the cpu excessively. DX12 will help greatly in this domain for future iteration and games.

Patrick Kulinski
17-05-2016, 19:35
This looks to be showing up project cars as still CPU bound in VR.

Even with the GTX 1080 that should blow away a 980Ti, there is next to no difference when running with a grid full of cars and neither card can sustain 90fps.

I'm starting to think we'll never have the hardware to play this game properly in VR, perhaps we should come back in 5 years time!

In this case I wonder what would happen if they decided to overclock the CPU. If you're right then we should see much more difference in the benchmarks.
Otherwise, I'm a happy bunny being able to play with the Vive. On Sunday I had the race of my life when I made it through a 1.5h multiplayer race (with stock settings, that is). And after they visited me in order to try, I have a few jealous friends now, too. :o)

Robes
17-05-2016, 19:48
Unplayable like: positional tracking judder that would make you vomit within 10 minutes. It works fine on time trial. Start a race with 20 cars and performance is bad. This is with the HTC Vive mind you. It runs perfectly fine in flat 2D. My PC is perfectly fine. I got tons of games and not one has any issues. If you check out reddit you will see that Vive users with AMD GPUs all experience the same.

Since some people think it is better to blame AMD for the bad AMD performance: Makes me wonder why AMD does not have to "fix" their drivers for Asseto Corsa or pretty much any other racing game I own then? I guess the AMD drivers only fail to work with Project Cars. Funny that.

I have the same with an R9 Nano and everything set to the lowest possible or off entirely. It's disappointing for sure.

Ian Bell
18-05-2016, 01:24
Unplayable like: positional tracking judder that would make you vomit within 10 minutes. It works fine on time trial. Start a race with 20 cars and performance is bad. This is with the HTC Vive mind you. It runs perfectly fine in flat 2D. My PC is perfectly fine. I got tons of games and not one has any issues. If you check out reddit you will see that Vive users with AMD GPUs all experience the same.

Since some people think it is better to blame AMD for the bad AMD performance: Makes me wonder why AMD does not have to "fix" their drivers for Asseto Corsa or pretty much any other racing game I own then? I guess the AMD drivers only fail to work with Project Cars. Funny that.

Thoemse, give it a rest on the blame game please. AMD doesn't have to fix drivers on non light pre-pass deferred rendering systems. That's what we use, it was state of the art when written, it's since been in a total rewrite for future games moving towards a forward+ system. AMD drivers don't like our engine very much and we've done all we can from our side to optimise.

Ian Bell
18-05-2016, 01:26
This looks to be showing up project cars as still CPU bound in VR.

Even with the GTX 1080 that should blow away a 980Ti, there is next to no difference when running with a grid full of cars and neither card can sustain 90fps.

I'm starting to think we'll never have the hardware to play this game properly in VR, perhaps we should come back in 5 years time!

I'm running it perfectly on my 980Ti. Those tests are using higher settings than we default to (thus, higher than should be used).


First up, we ran with no anti-aliasing. Even with most graphical options at their highest, in VR the resulting aliasing was extremely distracting using these settings. Nevertheless, Project Cars represented a significant VR challenge with both the GTX 1080 and 980Ti pushing high GPU usage levels.

Ian Bell
18-05-2016, 01:32
The negativity I'm reading here isn't matched on Reddit where the general consensus is that we run fine on a 970 and it's a fantastic experience.

https://www.reddit.com/search?q=project+cars+vive&sort=new

Nor in other areas:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MyssTnuNTuw


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNYW9TjziPA


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zf1dDVWJmNw&feature=youtu.be

neelrocker
18-05-2016, 03:34
any chance you make the mirrors viewpoint dependent ?

Ian Bell
18-05-2016, 03:47
any chance you make the mirrors viewpoint dependent ?

You know, we had that working in testing way back for Shift1 but it was eating too much resource. I think it's something we should look at resurrecting on the next engine update.

neelrocker
18-05-2016, 04:23
Oh ok, I was expecting this to be relatively light on ressources.

And what about the VR optimizations introduced with pascal architecture ? (Simultaneous Multi Projection Engine (which also helps improving multiscreen/surround) and Lens Matched Shading)

Are you already exploring those new possibilities to check how hard they are to implement, and how effective they are at bringing performance gains ? (or is it too soon for that ?)

Lens Matched Shading should help a lot if it saves rendering the 30% extra pixels, although people wonder how the visual result will compare vs the current algorithm (the picture example in the reviews shows the result is close but we can easily catch many approximations, and those may look weird once in movement vs this still picture exemple).

http://www.hardware.fr/medias/photos_news/00/50/IMG0050482.jpg

djbuzz07
18-05-2016, 07:13
I'm running it perfectly on my 980Ti. Those tests are using higher settings than we default to (thus, higher than should be used).

I'm on a rift CV1 and struggling to get the right setting, could you share what graphic options you use?

Ian Bell
18-05-2016, 07:30
I'm on a rift CV1 and struggling to get the right setting, could you share what graphic options you use?

The defaults are low and that's as it should be.

In fact with your system, you should be able to run a lot at medium and retain a fairly solid 90. That's what I am able to do.

This is a Vive thread though.

surtic86
18-05-2016, 07:38
This is a Vive thread though.

Thanks for your hard Work on VR! Right now Project Cars is the best Racing Game with VR Support!


I had yesterday a league Race on SPA with Formula Renault and it was amazing. 23 Rounds with 18 Guy's it was pure fun.

Schadows
18-05-2016, 09:15
The negativity I'm reading here isn't matched on Reddit where the general consensus is that we run fine on a 970 and it's a fantastic experience.
No doubt the Vive is very appreciated. It brings immersion to a whole new level (I even improved my times after a few minutes and was able to increase AI difficulty).

But, for long times users here, the fact is it came at quite a cost. Having to choose between immersion over high fidelity graphics and full grid experience.
Not saying it's the game fault (hardware limitations mostly), but I can understand people who were used to the game before could be puzzled or disappointed.

But again, pcars is one of the few "real games" (opposed to casual games and technical demos) available. No wonder it's more glutton than your average technical demo.

As for the VRWorks features, as much as I would liked it, i doubt SMS will spend that much time implementing proprietary features on pcars 1.

Schadows
18-05-2016, 09:16
The negativity I'm reading here isn't matched on Reddit where the general consensus is that we run fine on a 970 and it's a fantastic experience.
No doubt the Vive is very appreciated. It brings immersion to a while new level (I even improved my times after a few minutes and was able to increase AI difficulty).

But, for long times users here, the fact is it came at quite a cost. Having to choose between immersion over high fidelity graphics and full grid experience.
Not saying it's the game fault (hardware limitations mostly), but I can understand people who were used to the game before could be puzzled or disappointed.

But again, pcars is one of the few "real games" (opposed to casual games and technical demos) available. No wonder it's more glutton than your average technical demo.

As for the VRWorks features, as much as I would liked it, i doubt SMS will spend that much time implementing proprietary features on pcars 1.

Thoemse
18-05-2016, 09:35
Thoemse, give it a rest on the blame game please. AMD doesn't have to fix drivers on non light pre-pass deferred rendering systems. That's what we use, it was state of the art when written, it's since been in a total rewrite for future games moving towards a forward+ system. AMD drivers don't like our engine very much and we've done all we can from our side to optimise.

I will give it a rest after this reply. I apreciate that you are actively communicating with the community. It is just so frustrating when you have a theoretically very capable GPU that is totally useless for one game. A game that i would love to play. I am a member since the crowd funding phase and I hardly play it because it frustrates me a lot.
It is nice to hear you will change this for future games. For me it also means that I have no options to play this game meaning I have to delete it from my harddisk eventhough Pcars + Vive would be pretty much the greatest racing experience you can have right now. I see that because it runs fine in Time Trial. It only gets unplayable with enemy cars on the track.
It's a real shame wich is why I was so vocal about. If you cannot fix it and AMD does not want to I am out of luck though. I will give it a rest now of course.

Shiftdel
18-05-2016, 09:36
I'am a single monitor User at the moment and I'am thinking of spending some money on the VR front.
At the moment I'am waiting on some more reviews and User commentaar.
But it looks rArther promising.

JohnSchoonsBeard
18-05-2016, 10:04
You know, we had that working in testing way back for Shift1 but it was eating too much resource. I think it's something we should look at resurrecting on the next engine update.

As long as changing your seat position doesn't screw the mirrors up. There probably needs to be an assumption that you would adjust your mirrors so the reflection in the mirrors is corrected for the new seat position.

Schadows
18-05-2016, 13:34
If i were you, i would give it a try before buying (friends, convention, etc.).
Monday, I invited a couple of friends to try VR, and they were absolutely fine with everything (The Lab, Budget Cuts, Vanishing Realms), until they tried Project CARS.
one of them found it disturbing but still could play, while the other has to stop after only a few seconds as he was feeling sick. He then tried another roomscale game without any issues, but couldn't bear with pcars.
I have absolutely no problem with it, though.

dest
18-05-2016, 20:36
970 user from earlier, was able to throw everything up to medium bar shadows no problem. got to play with 2 friends in caterhams on a road circuit. sweet jesus what a glorious experience. i had the window open and a breeze was blowing at me to boot it was like i was there. i cant wait to play this on a 1070/1080

reset_1974
19-05-2016, 02:22
If i were you, i would give it a try before buying (friends, convention, etc.).
Monday, I invited a couple of friends to try VR, and they were absolutely fine with everything (The Lab, Budget Cuts, Vanishing Realms), until they tried Project CARS.
one of them found it disturbing but still could play, while the other has to stop after only a few seconds as he was feeling sick. He then tried another roomscale game without any issues, but couldn't bear with pcars.
I have absolutely no problem with it, though.

Your friendīs problem is the reprojection. When the game canīt reach 90 frames per second, it enables reprojection and targets 45 frames per second. That makes some objets blur (an effect like a phantom image) specially with objetcs that are shown on both sides of the road ( trees, flags, etc). Smooth images are only possible when the system is running 89fps. This is why they feel sick and disturbed.

I donīt know if itīs a problem of optimization but when i turn off "allow reprojection" in steamvr , the gfx card is working at less than 40% and it canīt achieve those 90fps in most of time.
Processor runs from 33 to 66 % load too.

Try that installing MSI Afterburner and monitor fps, gpu and cpu load.

Ian Bell
19-05-2016, 04:50
As long as changing your seat position doesn't screw the mirrors up. There probably needs to be an assumption that you would adjust your mirrors so the reflection in the mirrors is corrected for the new seat position.

It's a very good point I didn't previously consider John.

hookman
19-05-2016, 08:02
Your friendīs problem is the reprojection. When the game canīt reach 90 frames per second, it enables reprojection and targets 45 frames per second. That makes some objets blur (an effect like a phantom image) specially with objetcs that are shown on both sides of the road ( trees, flags, etc). Smooth images are only possible when the system is running 89fps. This is why they feel sick and disturbed.

I donīt know if itīs a problem of optimization but when i turn off "allow reprojection" in steamvr , the gfx card is working at less than 40% and it canīt achieve those 90fps in most of time.
Processor runs from 33 to 66 % load too.

Try that installing MSI Afterburner and monitor fps, gpu and cpu load.
I think is this is source of my frustrations too.
With the DK2 I could hit 75fps with 960x1080 per eye for a nice smooth experience.

With the Vive I need to hit 90fps with 1080x1200 per eye in order to match that experience.

That's 30% more pixels running at 20% higher frame rate. It's no wonder that we're struggling to maintain smooth gameplay without reprojection. I do wonder how many of the youtube videos and positive comments are from people using reprojection, some people may well be entirely happy with it, I was initially until it started making me feel sick!

Schadows
19-05-2016, 08:46
Your friendīs problem is the reprojection. When the game canīt reach 90 frames per second, it enables reprojection and targets 45 frames per second. That makes some objets blur (an effect like a phantom image) specially with objetcs that are shown on both sides of the road ( trees, flags, etc). Smooth images are only possible when the system is running 89fps. This is why they feel sick and disturbed.

I donīt know if itīs a problem of optimization but when i turn off "allow reprojection" in steamvr , the gfx card is working at less than 40% and it canīt achieve those 90fps in most of time.
Processor runs from 33 to 66 % load too.

Try that installing MSI Afterburner and monitor fps, gpu and cpu load.That maybe true, but even with everything on the lowest settings with 10 opponents or so, retroprojection still kicks in, at least at the start of a race, because I can't reach a 11.1ms frametime (as seen with the Steam VR frametime monitor inside the game ... afterburner doesn't give me the fps since I don't display the mirrored image on the monitor). After a lap or so, without much opponents on screen, I can reach 90fps, but it's of no use if I can only do time trial.
I will try disabling it, to see if it works better but I wouldn't get my hopes too high.
On my side, I don't have a problem playing for hours with retroprojection active (and since I can't get a stable 90fps with everything on low/off I cranked up some options to low/medium as long as I can stay over the 45 fps).

EDIT : I tried disabling retroprojection, but it did no good. You can see retroprojection is a little too "safe", kicking in a little too soon while you can still achieve 90fps, but I'm way past 11.1ms at the start of a race, and it becomes unplayable (even for me), a real judder fest.
After looking at the graphs, it looks like the CPU load is quite heavy, probably not feeding the GPU fast enough (and every frametime spikes comme from CPU time spikes too).

Roundy
20-05-2016, 02:56
Hi All,

Trying to play this with my vive, and having no end of difficulties!

First the steering wheel issue, reporting combined pedals is a pretty poor solution (not PCars fault I know)..

But when I start the game, it shows on the desktop, but not in the headset, and on the desktop the steam VR says it is frozen or some such.

I deleted all my config files, but no joy at all!

Any ideas?

Schadows
20-05-2016, 09:04
While the wheel has to be configured as "combined" in the wheel parameters, you can still configure it as "separate" in the game.
I don't have the problem where the game is only launch on the monitor, but have you tried to launch it directly from the SteamVR dashboard, in the helmet. I read that it solved the problem for some people.

Roundy
20-05-2016, 10:02
That is where i launched it from...

Edit: Found a solution, press the button beneath the track pad and it transfers you across to it.

Other than the blurriness from the screen, it is unreal being able to look around so well when driving!

hookman
22-05-2016, 12:58
After looking at the graphs, it looks like the CPU load is quite heavy, probably not feeding the GPU fast enough (and every frametime spikes comme from CPU time spikes too).
This has been a long standing issue with project cars in vr. It's by far the most CPU heavy game I own. I bought an I7 6700k specifically for this game, it did improve things, but still not to the point where I can run a full grid and rain in vr, which is obviously what you need to actually play the career mode.

reptilexcq
22-05-2016, 14:44
This game need optimization in graphic. Sometimes you can max out things without stutter....other times you can't. Deleting xml file every single time you start up the game is a hassle. If i don't delete, it stutter at the start of every race and no settings input can fix it. Developers need to come out with a fix.

Reid-o
22-05-2016, 19:05
This is running fine for me after reading and doing tweaks. I do notice a small bug though.
I want to reset the seated position at the start of every race, which can be set under settings-virtual reality.

The settings hold for the duration of play after I change the settings in the menu, but they revert back for every new instance. My XML file shows this value
<prop name="ResetVR" data="9" />

What value do I need to enter to make the settings persistent? It's not a huge issue to change it in game, but it seems like I could make it persistent if i change this value. Does anyone know what value to enter to make it reset at the start of every race?

This is important for me because I use Wheel Stand Pro (which I put away when not using), and I tend to place it in different locations when I use it.

Schadows
22-05-2016, 19:31
I had the same problem of having the settings under "Virtual Reality" not being saved when I exited the game, but then, it was fixed when I delete all the XML files in the profile directory (My documents\Project CARS) and the game recreated them.
But if you have already done that (like is was suggested in the official patch notes), I'm out of ideas.

As for the reset, I prefer to handle it manually, because sometimes, I'm not looking perfectly straight when the race starts. So I mapped the reset to a button that I can reach while being in the perfect driving position, in the controller settings.

Reid-o
22-05-2016, 19:40
I had the same problem of having the settings under "Virtual Reality" not being saved when I exited the game, but then, it was fixed when I delete all the XML files in the profile directory (My documents\Project CARS) and the game recreated them.
But if you have already done that (like is was suggested in the official patch notes), I'm out of ideas.

As for the reset, I prefer to handle it manually, because sometimes, I'm not looking perfectly straight when the race starts. So I mapped the reset to a button that I can reach while being in the perfect driving position, in the controller settings.

Thanks. I never thought about remapping the reset button. I'll try that.

I think though that if I change resetvr data settings it'll be easier. I've already made changes to the XML and they seem to stick. I just don't know what the value data=9 means and what value I need to enter to have it reset at the start of every race. It's not a big deal, but I figured since this is a forum for things like this, I'd ask.

As an aside, I notice that 3d seated gaming requires the game to run flawlessly with no occlusion, lag etc.. or I get really dizzy fast. I can handle it when room scale games bug out for some reason, but things like a small jutter with lots of camera movement, like you get in Project Cars and DCS World, makes me have to lie down for a second. It might just be me. It's really noticeable to me when there are static objects, like the A pillar to a car or the pillar in a plane, mixed with camera movement. If the A pillar jitters and then there's camera movement...man...

FYI: I changed my lighstations to play these seated games by placing both Lighstations like speakers in front of me (one left side one right side), using channels A and B with the sync cable, and it made a big difference, as any occlusion is "the suck." I move them when playing room scale (no i don't mind) to a typical setup. Actually when using room scale, I notice it doesn't matter as much where I place the base stations.

Schadows
23-05-2016, 10:16
Channels should be B and C. Channel A is when only one of the 2 base station is used. By the way, it is entirely possible (even described in the manual) to use only one base in front of you (kind of like Oculus Rift) when using the standing mode.
Personally, I keep using the room-scale mode when playing pcars.

I tried pushing my card and CPU to their limit (OC testing) by pushing most of the settings to their highest value (DS9x & High/Ultra). When I checked how did it look like in the helmet, I fell sick very quick when trying to look around me since the framerate was so low (same as when I disable retroprojection on the starting ligne when my system cannot stay above 90fps).

reptilexcq
23-05-2016, 14:08
If you experience jutter, you shouldn't play it. At the start of each race when you move your head from left to right and see jutter...even a slight occasionally jutter, i would stop and go out and try to lower some of the settings. You will get some motion sickness.

Mattias
30-05-2016, 05:59
970 user from earlier, was able to throw everything up to medium bar shadows no problem. got to play with 2 friends in caterhams on a road circuit. sweet jesus what a glorious experience. i had the window open and a breeze was blowing at me to boot it was like i was there. i cant wait to play this on a 1070/1080

I assume this is without any AA?
I tried pcars in my vive last night trying to make it a smooth experience, turned everything to lowest.
But as soon as I tried even the lowest AA I had some kind of ghosting I guess some people call jitters.

I'll try to set things to medium today without AA and see how that goes. Post processing was no issue once AA was off.
I'd like to know how high the settings can go on the gtx1080.

Out of all the VR games I've played, I have had no issues with graphics or how great it looks. Not even any jaggies.
But in pCars, apart from inside the car, the outside world looks almost like an 8bit nintendo game VR enhanced. (Maybe too exaggerated)
I really need a better gfx card now :(


Edit: Anyone tried with GTX 1080 yet? How high settings can you go with that?

Schadows
30-05-2016, 08:08
The only time I experienced ghosting was when I tried disabling "retroprojection" or when I couldn't stay about 45fps even with it.

About the 8-bit feeling, I think everyone feel it, but as already said, pcars is one of the few actual games ported to VR (instead of technical demo and light/casual games) hence de performances. Also, I didn't try a VR game yet where you have to look that far in the distance with such a detailed environment (it is usually closer, empty or with a very simple environment).

As for the 1080 test, roadtovr as included a VR test of project cars in their 1080 benchmark.
It doesn't fiddle with every settings, only AA. All the other settings are maxed out.
And as some of us said in the 1080 performance thread, it looks like that without AA, the game is CPU bound (otherwise I have a hard time explaining why it's the only scenario where the card is around the same performances as the 980Ti)
http://www.roadtovr.com/nvidia-gtx-1080-benchmark-review-performance-head-to-head-against-the-980ti/3/#project-cars

Mattias
30-05-2016, 09:41
The only time I experienced ghosting was when I tried disabling "retroprojection" or when I couldn't stay about 45fps even with it.

About the 8-bit feeling, I think everyone feel it, but as already said, pcars is one of the few actual games ported to VR (instead of technical demo and light/casual games) hence de performances. Also, I didn't try a VR game yet where you have to look that far in the distance with such a detailed environment (it is usually closer, empty or with a very simple environment).

As for the 1080 test, roadtovr as included a VR test of project cars in their 1080 benchmark.
It doesn't fiddle with every settings, only AA. All the other settings are maxed out.
And as some of us said in the 1080 performance thread, it looks like that without AA, the game is CPU bound (otherwise I have a hard time explaining why it's the only scenario where the card is around the same performances as the 980Ti)
http://www.roadtovr.com/nvidia-gtx-1080-benchmark-review-performance-head-to-head-against-the-980ti/3/#project-cars

This looks excellent, and yes, I did turn off the reprojection stuff, I will try turn it on and see how it works with AA enabled as well.
I'm tempted to get the 1080, but that'll have to wait until next year, and hopefully the Ti version is out by then.

Maybe someone has found the perfect settings for the 970 already? Anyone care to post?
I will keep experimenting and put them in my signature once I've found them.

Schadows
30-05-2016, 10:13
That depends on the situation.
Even with everything set at its minimum settings (and without crowds nor a mirrored image of the game on the monitor), I can't maintained 90fps at the start with the AI in front of me at Spa (not problem in time trial). Once the horde has been thinned, or if i'm first, I do get over 90fps. I recently discovered that the main reason lies in the CPU usage (I haven't heavy process working in the background and the antovirus is completely disabled when I'm playing) which is the bottleneck while being surrounded by AI.

Since I don't plan on playing in time trial, and I have to use retroprojection, I decided to tweak my settings in order to stay above 45fps (limit of the retroprojection). Thankfully I'm not sensible to this, and don't get sick, but I'm sure other do.
I will post my VR settings tonight, but basically, I maxed out the textures, the anisotropic filtering, left the AA to DownSampling 2x, and cranked up Car detail to medium (not sure about this one though).
Obviously, I can't play (or even watch a saved replay) under the rain.

Mattias
31-05-2016, 06:31
I tried your settings as well as enabling reprojection.
It's "ok" as long as you only look slightly to the sides or forward, but if you want to look fully to the sides or even look around back... I at least need more fps to not feel ill. (Say you go off track and need to check if any cars are incoming.)
I also don't think it improved much over just having everything on lowest + no AA.

I'm curious to try live for speed since it has VR support as well.
Need to see how the graphics are there and what fps I can get.

It feels much better racing in 90fps as well, not sure why.

Schadows
31-05-2016, 10:23
I don't have a ghosting issue, even while looking full left or right, but I agree the DS2x AA settings doesn't improve things significantly from the lowest settings (I don't remember if you can turn AA completely off or have trilinear filtering as the lowest setting). The texture and AF makes quite a difference for me (I don't like blurry thing right in front of me).
Obviously, the result is better when the game eventually stick above 90fps when there is no car in view.

crowtrobot
02-06-2016, 12:24
Just got a Vive early this week, still getting used to it in pCARS vs. my DK2. The added resolution is nice, but I'm apparently coming up a little short when it comes to my hardware. I checked the frame times with the SteamVR monitor, and found that even in TT, GPU Frame Times are creeping up to 14-15ms (70-60fps). CPU is rock solid. This gives me a bit of ghosting when looking to the sides as noted by others, which gives a slightly disconcerting feeling.

Turning off AA gives me solid results, but the shimmering/jaggies make me go cross-eyed after a few minutes. Turning off shadows will also do the trick, but kills a lot of the immersion. Is there anything I can do to get something "in-between" the DS2X setting, and no AA at all, perhaps with the NVIDIA Profiler? Maybe a small overclock on the GPU?

CPU: Intel i7 5820k
GPU: EVGA 780Ti (368.22 drivers)

stephenb
02-06-2016, 13:47
You need to overclock both your CPU and GPU. The 780's are pretty good clockers in percentage terms, both of mine will do over 1200 on the core (25% or so over the quoted stock boost speeds). I think most people I've seen with 780ti's will go a little higher. If you use Precision X you can add +38mv, at least on my reference models, which helps keep them stable above 1150 or so. If you go down the custom BIOS route you can give them even more volts and get clocks nearer to 1400. Your CPU should be good for at least 4Ghz, probably more.

crowtrobot
02-06-2016, 14:07
You need to overclock both your CPU and GPU. The 780's are pretty good clockers in percentage terms, both of mine will do over 1200 on the core (25% or so over the quoted stock boost speeds). I think most people I've seen with 780ti's will go a little higher. If you use Precision X you can add +38mv, at least on my reference models, which helps keep them stable above 1150 or so. If you go down the custom BIOS route you can give them even more volts and get clocks nearer to 1400. Your CPU should be good for at least 4Ghz, probably more.
Thanks for the advice!

I'll try some overclocking with my GPU tonight. Can you do that on a stock ACX cooler?

w.r.t. CPU: Maybe I'm misinterpreting my results, but would the CPU need to be overclocked if the frame timing from the CPU is low and constant? I forget what the number value was, but it was unchanged between "good" settings with no AA/shadows and more taxing settings; that implies to me that the CPU is offloading frames with room to spare, and the GPU is the bottleneck. Is that incorrect? There should definitely be room to bump up the clocks on the CPU, but the room where I have my setup is already hot, I'd rather not push the CPU if I don't have to.

Schadows
02-06-2016, 17:25
Frankly I doubt you can get a 28% gain in performance (going from 70 to 90fps) with just overclocking only.
Having a 970 myself, which is considered as the lowest recommanded card for VR by the game developers, I'm in a same kind of dilema when talking about race (not TT).
I don't change gpu every generation, and but I must admit I'm quite interested in switching to a FinFet 14 card in the following months because of the VR.

Considering you have a quite strong 6-cores intel cpu, I'm not very surprised to hear it holds its ground well.

crowtrobot
02-06-2016, 18:29
Frankly I doubt you can get a 28% gain in performance (going from 70 to 90fps) with just overclocking only.
Having a 970 myself, which is considered as the lowest recommanded card for VR by the game developers, I'm in a same kind of dilema when talking about race (not TT).
I don't change gpu every generation, and but I must admit I'm quite interested in switching to a FinFet 14 card in the following months because of the VR.

Considering you have a quite strong 6-cores intel cpu, I'm not very surprised to hear it holds its ground well.
Yeah, didn't think it'd make a huge % difference, but will give it a shot tonight anyway.

I just saw this regarding the new NVIDIA 1080: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2016-nvidia-geforce-gtx-1080-review

Comparisons w/pCARS showed a 100% gain from a 780ti, which suprised me given the very modest gains from a 780 -> 980. Looks like I may just have to throw money at the problem sometime in the near future.

Schadows
02-06-2016, 18:50
Gamespot is one of the few to include a VR test in their benchmark (roadtovr is using pcars (http://www.roadtovr.com/nvidia-gtx-1080-benchmark-review-performance-head-to-head-against-the-980ti/3/#project-cars) among other things but I don't know how they are getting the fps count though), although it is the SteamVR performance test.
They released their 1070 review (http://www.gamespot.com/articles/nvidia-geforce-gtx-1070-review/1100-6440307/), and in VR :

233959

hookman
02-06-2016, 21:51
I'm running it perfectly on my 980Ti. Those tests are using higher settings than we default to (thus, higher than should be used).

Sounds like most people here are still struggling to reach 90fps with any graphics settings.

Can you give us an indication on what graphics settings you are using and what race scenarios (e.g. number of cars, weather conditions) you are running this perfectly on?

For instance I assume you can't run a full grid in the rain in the Vive at 90fps?

stephenb
02-06-2016, 21:58
Thanks for the advice!

I'll try some overclocking with my GPU tonight. Can you do that on a stock ACX cooler?

w.r.t. CPU: Maybe I'm misinterpreting my results, but would the CPU need to be overclocked if the frame timing from the CPU is low and constant? I forget what the number value was, but it was unchanged between "good" settings with no AA/shadows and more taxing settings; that implies to me that the CPU is offloading frames with room to spare, and the GPU is the bottleneck. Is that incorrect? There should definitely be room to bump up the clocks on the CPU, but the room where I have my setup is already hot, I'd rather not push the CPU if I don't have to. You'll be fine with the ACX cooler, just expect more fan noise as they'll have to ramp up to keep the card cool. You can use task manager to check the individual core usage on your CPU. I've always seen min framerates increase with clock speed in all of the racing sims I have.

crowtrobot
03-06-2016, 01:43
I'm running it perfectly on my 980Ti. Those tests are using higher settings than we default to (thus, higher than should be used).
Ian,

Can you or StephenV or someone else post some recommended specs and race configurations where you can get a stable 90 fps (preferably a screenshot of the options menu and QR setup)?

With a DK2, I had very little problems - tracking was smooth as silk and could run in the rain with a 30 car grid with no issue, but with the higher res and higher fps requirement of the Vive, it's pretty much impossible to hit 90 fps without turning the AA all the way down (all other settings at Low), even in TT. Using the SteamVR performance output, I'm very clearly GPU-limited; the CPU has a ton of idle time, where the frametime on the GPU goes up to 12+ ms.

234005

Despite how awesome the room-scale thing is, and the benefit of the higher res, I'm a little regretful I sold the DK2, as pCARS is where I spend all my time in VR.

Schadows
03-06-2016, 06:01
I dont know how much is spared when not displaying the mirrored image on the monitor (-vrnomirror), but that should help a little i think.

Ian Bell
03-06-2016, 06:32
Gamespot is one of the few to include a VR test in their benchmark (roadtovr is using pcars (http://www.roadtovr.com/nvidia-gtx-1080-benchmark-review-performance-head-to-head-against-the-980ti/3/#project-cars) among other things but I don't know how they are getting the fps count though), although it is the SteamVR performance test.
They released their 1070 review (http://www.gamespot.com/articles/nvidia-geforce-gtx-1070-review/1100-6440307/), and in VR :

233959

It's extremely annoying to own a water cooled Titan X which cost a fortune now...

Ian Bell
03-06-2016, 06:34
Sounds like most people here are still struggling to reach 90fps with any graphics settings.

Can you give us an indication on what graphics settings you are using and what race scenarios (e.g. number of cars, weather conditions) you are running this perfectly on?

For instance I assume you can't run a full grid in the rain in the Vive at 90fps?

I always run on defaults, mainly low and with only a few AI cars in the sun.

Absolutely correct, you would need a monster machine for a full grid in the rain, my Alienware Titan X machine drops occasionally under those circumstances.

Ryzza5
03-06-2016, 08:13
Agreed mate... thought it would take a bit more time for other cards to catch up :/

neelrocker
03-06-2016, 09:07
What about adding settings to turn off more eye candy (trees for exemple) ?

Schadows
03-06-2016, 09:38
If there was a settings I would like to added, it would be first and foremost the ability to remove fences. They are very distracting in VR unless you have extremely high AA settings.
But considering all the work to be done, I don't see this happening u__u.
Frankly, I'm already against disabling shadows while playing (adds so much to the lighting and immersion), so playing without tree like "back in the days" when those tracks were being developed ... that would not be for me at least.



Gamespot is one of the few to include a VR test in their benchmark (roadtovr is using pcars (http://www.roadtovr.com/nvidia-gtx-1080-benchmark-review-performance-head-to-head-against-the-980ti/3/#project-cars) among other things but I don't know how they are getting the fps count though), although it is the SteamVR performance test.
They released their 1070 review (http://www.gamespot.com/articles/nvidia-geforce-gtx-1070-review/1100-6440307/), and in VR :

233959
It's extremely annoying to own a water cooled Titan X which cost a fortune now...I've run the test myself yesterday night, and I'm a bit skeptical about Gamespot numbers in this test.
Even leaving my GPU with it's factory overclocking (GTX 970 @1380MHz), I get a frame count a little OVER 9000 !!! (sorry couldn't resist this one ;p)
And with my custom overclocking (+100MHz core, +400MHz VRAM), I even got a 9879 frames count.
I knew that an overclocked 970 could easily best a standard 980, but in this case, I would be 5 times closer to a Titan X result than i am from the 980.

Mattias
03-06-2016, 10:19
I've now started trying to OC my GTX 970.
Going gently to begin with but still playing on lowest possible settings in pCars.

I still enjoy the racing, it's enough to be able to race properly.
Just the depth alone helps with corners.

Only problem right now I have is that the wheel is going crazy in the steamvr dashboard... can't select anything with the vive controller if the wheel starts playing its own life.
Is there a way to disable other controllers in steam?

Right now I'm planning my pc upgrade... i7 6700k, gtx 1080ti, ddr4 ram, a OC friendly mobo... can't wait for the ti version to arrive!

Schadows
03-06-2016, 11:55
not sure how it works with a T500rs, but I had the same problem with my Logitech G25 (interfering with the SteamVR dashboard) until I configure my pedals as "combined" in the device properties (still use "separate" in the game). I don't have any interference now.

crowtrobot
03-06-2016, 12:35
I always run on defaults, mainly low and with only a few AI cars in the sun.

Absolutely correct, you would need a monster machine for a full grid in the rain, my Alienware Titan X machine drops occasionally under those circumstances.
Thank you for the reply Ian.

What level of AA are you using? Shadows enabled?

side note: I found that the difference in frame rate from Low/Med shadows -> Off was not very large. It appears the frame rate is mostly dominated by the AA setting; running with AA off gives me a headache from all the shimmer and jaggies, so I'm conditioning myself to the 45 fps limit, which, on the bright side, at least enables me to run with some higher Image Quality settings. Is there any way through control panel or command line, say a DS1.5X? Or render at a lower resolution on the Vive? Honestly, the 1080p75 on the DK2 was adequate for me, particularly in trade for smooth frame rates.

Side note 2: Agree with Schadows - it'd be fantastic if we could turn off the fences; doesn't really add a whole lot at speed, and the shimmer is a bit distracting. Could it be approached the same way as the wheel textures, with one for static situations, and a simple blur texture when at speed?

Schadows
03-06-2016, 19:00
I'm not sure Nvidia DSR ratio applies for the Vive. I don't see why it wouldn't but I never tried (I didn't see why Afterburner would not display framerate of pcars when only displayed in the Vive ... but it doesn't).

TrevorAustin
03-06-2016, 19:40
I'm on a rift CV1 and struggling to get the right setting, could you share what graphic options you use?

Just start with defaults and work up. The performance since Oculus 1.3 and patch 10.1 has been dramatically improved, significantly beyond where it has been at any point since launch. Anybody saying otherwise either has a chip on their shoulder or a system problem.

Ian Bell
04-06-2016, 00:48
Thank you for the reply Ian.

What level of AA are you using? Shadows enabled?

side note: I found that the difference in frame rate from Low/Med shadows -> Off was not very large. It appears the frame rate is mostly dominated by the AA setting; running with AA off gives me a headache from all the shimmer and jaggies, so I'm conditioning myself to the 45 fps limit, which, on the bright side, at least enables me to run with some higher Image Quality settings. Is there any way through control panel or command line, say a DS1.5X? Or render at a lower resolution on the Vive? Honestly, the 1080p75 on the DK2 was adequate for me, particularly in trade for smooth frame rates.

Side note 2: Agree with Schadows - it'd be fantastic if we could turn off the fences; doesn't really add a whole lot at speed, and the shimmer is a bit distracting. Could it be approached the same way as the wheel textures, with one for static situations, and a simple blur texture when at speed?

No AA, shadows enabled at medium as I see no difference from low.

Turning off fences would be a mammoth amount of work guys. We have so many tracks and fences aren't given any sort of special unique identifier.

John Hargreaves
04-06-2016, 08:09
I wonder if some of this has to do with expectations too? We have got so used to ultra hi res monitors that stepping back a bit to tech in its infancy is a bit of a shock. If you don't like the idea of accepting those shortcomings, you might be better off with CV2 or CV3, which will probably be announced before I even get my CV1.

Edit: just noticed I'm in the Vive thread, but you get the idea.

hookman
05-06-2016, 09:10
Other vive games have a rendering quality slider which usually goes from 70% up to 130%. There's a massive difference between even 100 to 120 in terms of the smoothness of image and lack of visible pixels.

Does anyone know what that is doing in the background? Is it upping the resolution to use down sampling?

Is there any chance of getting a setting like this in project cars?

Schadows
05-06-2016, 19:46
what other vive game are you referring to? I'm starting to have some games too, but haven't seen such slider yet.

TrevorAustin
06-06-2016, 14:38
No AA, shadows enabled at medium as I see no difference from low.

Turning off fences would be a mammoth amount of work guys. We have so many tracks and fences aren't given any sort of special unique identifier.

I'm running with AA at DS4X, shadows high and get very little shimmering (although I think I'm lucky and a little 'immune' to it) and get no noticeable slowdowns in almost any conditions. Sometimes when I look at afterburner after a race I see there were a few drops that were masked cleverly by the software, but most of the time pinned at 75. If I needed 90 I would expect to have to turn a couple of settings down a little, but not much.

Schadows
06-06-2016, 14:45
I see there were a few drops that were masked cleverly by the software, but most of the time pinned at 75.I don't understand. when you talked about "masked cleverly by the software" I though you were talking about retroprojection, but after that, you talk about 75 (which I assumed is in "frame per second") which cannot be reached with retroprojection (either 90 or 45 fps if i remember correctly).
Is there another software which can enable a similar functionality at different frame rate?

crowtrobot
06-06-2016, 14:46
I'm running with AA at DS4X, shadows high and get very little shimmering (although I think I'm lucky and a little 'immune' to it) and get no noticeable slowdowns in almost any conditions. Sometimes when I look at afterburner after a race I see there were a few drops that were masked cleverly by the software, but most of the time pinned at 75. If I needed 90 I would expect to have to turn a couple of settings down a little, but not much.
At least from what I've seen on my 780 ti, there's a not-so-insignificant jump in hardware requirements to hit 90fps at 2160x1200, from the 1080p @ 75fps on the DK2. I can't even Time Trial with clear weather if I have AA enabled, regardless of texture or model detail settings and consistently hit 90fps. It's not just people whinging about settings or expectations.

FWIW, I was running DS2X and everything on High and able to do races with 30 cars in the rain on my DK2. No longer with the Vive.


I don't understand. when you talked about "masked cleverly by the software" I though you were talking about retroprojection, but after that, you talk about 75 (which I assumed is in "frame per second") which cannot be reached with retroprojection (either 90 or 45 fps if i remember correctly).
Is there another software which can enable a similar functionality at different frame rate?
I think Trevor's on a DK2, not a Vive, so the target frame rate is 75fps, and Oculus' ATW magic seems to be better at masking frame-rate dips than the reprojection SteamVR uses by default.

Schadows
06-06-2016, 14:59
Unfortunately, I can't really compare. I don't see a problem with Vive retroprojection (doesn't mean other people won't), and my only test of a CV1 with ATW wasn't that long
and took place 2 months ago (and I didn't spend much time with pcars at that time since the owner didn't had a wheel to play with).

hookman
06-06-2016, 17:25
what other vive game are you referring to? I'm starting to have some games too, but haven't seen such slider yet.
I must admit having gone to look for them, the only one I could find is "The Solus Project". I'm sure there were others, but I've no idea what!

Is increasing the core resolution something that could work for us here? It might be a better solution than AA perhaps?

hookman
06-06-2016, 17:27
At least from what I've seen on my 780 ti, there's a not-so-insignificant jump in hardware requirements to hit 90fps at 2160x1200, from the 1080p @ 75fps on the DK2. I can't even Time Trial with clear weather if I have AA enabled, regardless of texture or model detail settings and consistently hit 90fps. It's not just people whinging about settings or expectations.

FWIW, I was running DS2X and everything on High and able to do races with 30 cars in the rain on my DK2. No longer with the Vive.
Agreed, by my calculations it's over 50% more taxing to run on a Vive than a DK2 (30% more pixels running at 20% higher frame rate.)

Schadows
06-06-2016, 20:01
So 56% (1.3 * 1.2) ^^

I read in Valve press release a couple of days ago, when they released the source from The Lab on unity, that they adapt the visual settings dynamically depending on the system performances (kind of what Forza 6 is capable too on PC).
Might also be a good way to do it, especially for racing game where it is difficult to forsee how bad the screen will be filled with details and cars.

stitchbob
07-06-2016, 21:51
I've found playing with weather settings the most effective way of hiding aliasing shimmer. Heavy cloud seemed to cut the worst of it out on fences (and dare I say it looks more cinematic than a clear day too).

Also if you've not, try a night race on the Scottish road track with an open wheel class without headlights such as formula C. THE most immersive experience I've had in project cars. The fall off into dark hides any limit by the HMD fov, and the reflections off the car on street lights are stunning and very convincing. :cool:

Mattias
09-06-2016, 06:25
I did try an online game last night with rain, night and 20+ racers at the green hell with Ariel Atom 500 V8.

Was really nice but after the third lap I started feeling the motion sickness...
I think it got a lot worse every time I got to the banked turns, and also when I went into and out from the pitstop!
That automatic driving is hell. We need manual pit stop for VR!

Maybe it was low framerate too, I didn't check. But I didn't see any ghosting.
I'll see how it goes in clear weather next time.

Roundy
11-06-2016, 10:22
I find this nauseating in the vive.

2 of my friends are the same.

Not sure what it is about it, and have no other racing game to compare it to.

Schadows
11-06-2016, 15:38
I have one friend who also felt nauseous as soon as the car started moving, while the other only found the experience strange, and me being perfectly fine with it.

I supposed it was related to the fact that, in contrary to all the technical demo and conceptual games, pcars was the only experience I tried where you don't conscientiously move, but are "being moved" instead. And since your body doesn't feel the Gs and any vibrations you can see in the helmet, this might make sensible people nauseous.

But people here also emitted the hypothesis that it was related to the framerate. Not mater how low I set up the game (and obviously disabling all background processes like antivirus or even shadowplay recording), I cannot maintain the framerate above the required 90 fps. Most of the time (99% truth to be told) reprojection kicks in, and the game run at 45fps.
And since it's the only ambitious game I have in VR, with every other having no pain to reach the 90fps without repro, I can't say for sure either.

Thankfully, I have no problem playing even with reprojection.

MuddyPaws73
20-06-2016, 01:29
So, I have ventured into the world of VR with the HTC Vive and Project Cars. I have found the adventure to be very fulfilling, but was wondering about the resolution. I have the GTX 970 OC'd to about ~1700 MHz and I am able to set most visual settings on medium (give or take depending on numerous factors). Although the game is very playable in VR, I was wondering what hardware I would need to get all setting to high or better? Given my PC config, what would I expect from upgrading to a OC'd GTX 1080, or should I wait for either PCars 2 and/or the next wave of Nvida cards?

jonston
20-06-2016, 02:15
i have a 1080 and i run, low- medium settings with ultra car settings. DX4 as well. runs ok but still a bit pixelated for the trees and tracks. maybe a furture patch with the use of SMP will make it run a bit better. for now i will switch back to my triple screen setup.

p.s those settings run smooth with up to about 15 cars in the mix

Schadows
20-06-2016, 07:46
I have the GTX 970 OC'd to about ~1700 MHz and I am able to set most visual settings on mediumWow, that is some serious overclocking here ^__^
Can't OC mine more than ~1510MHz (value displayed by Afterburner despite setting +80MHz on a 1380MHz card) and I'm stuck on low with a few medium settings, but have to use reprojection (45fps) in continue.

roadtovr is, for all I know, the only website to have include a VR benchmark with pcars in their 1080 review (http://www.roadtovr.com/nvidia-gtx-1080-benchmark-review-performance-head-to-head-against-the-980ti/3/#project-cars).
The test protocol isn't that detailed (no mention of track, weather/lighting conditions nor the number of cars on track) but it might give you an idea.

MuddyPaws73
20-06-2016, 12:39
Wow, that is some serious overclocking here ^__^
Can't OC mine more than ~1510MHz (value displayed by Afterburner despite setting +80MHz on a 1380MHz card) and I'm stuck on low with a few medium settings, but have to use reprojection (45fps) in continue.


Yeah, sorry that was from my poor memory. I looked back and Afterburner is showing 1520 MHz although Unigine Benchmark shows 1645 MHz during testing.

lawicko
21-06-2016, 17:02
Hi, I have this strange problem when playing in Vive (playing non-VR is ok). When I start the race, I can drive for some time, and then the game randomly pauses. At first I thought it's a freeze, but then I discovered that when I press the left mouse button, the game resumes. What may be the cause? When I play without the VR there are no problems at all. I suspected it may have to do with the sound, because there are also sound artifacts directly before the 'freeze', but why would this only cause problems when using Vive?

I'm on GTX970, i5-3350P CPU 3.10GHz (4 CPUs), ~3.3GHz, 16 GB of RAM.

Siberian Tiger
21-06-2016, 17:31
What Controller did you have attached to your PC when playing pCars? There where Users, which had Random Pauses because on of the Buttons on his Gamepad/Wheel was faulty...
Evtl. something that only is activated with the Hive?

Schadows
21-06-2016, 18:14
It makes me think that some program is getting the focus on itself (or at least out of the game) which makes pcars pause. Then clicking on the mouse (which is probably positioned over the mirrored image) brings back the focus on the game, which resume.

lawicko
21-06-2016, 19:08
What Controller did you have attached to your PC when playing pCars? There where Users, which had Random Pauses because on of the Buttons on his Gamepad/Wheel was faulty...
Evtl. something that only is activated with the Hive?
I have Thrustmaster T300 with the TH8A Add-On Shifter connected to the separate USB port, but I'm sure it works correctly as it's tested on the daily basis in other games. I have run some more tests now, driving the following:
Bentley GT3 on the Donnington Park, a lot of freezes, especially when driving on the curbs.
Cadillac GT3 on LeMans, almost managed to drive through one lap without freezes, got one just after Indianapolis, then started getting more freezes on the second lap.
Catherham on Spa, got freezes as soon as drove past EauRouge, then more freezes, especially when on high revs.

I'm suspecting this may have something to do with sound, but why only on Vive (when using projector there are no problems)? Also, the 'freeze' is not a real in-game pause, I have checked if I can actually unpause it with the assigned button, but it's not possible. I can only unpause it with the left mouse button, and then I see the SteamVR logo for a split second, then I'm back in the game. During this split second all controls are reset, so if I keep the acceleration pedal on 100% before the freeze, then after freeze there is no acceleration and then the input is recognized again after a split second.

hookman
21-06-2016, 19:49
Just had another go at getting this working nicely in the vive, no luck though...

I was racing a 20 car grid at Laguna Seca on low graphics settings, and every time at the start I get frame rate drops at the first and second corners.

What I can't understand is why that should happen given the usage graphs of my PC as below.
It shows at the time of the drops GPU sat at 22% and CPU at 35%

Oddly *after* the frame rate drop it shows my GPU usage doubling to 50%

I'm not hitting the temp or power limit for my GPU (I've checked those graphs too), does anyone know what could be causing my PC to underperform in Project Cars? This is the only game I have never been able to get anywhere near maxing out, regardless of what hardware I put in my PC!

(Tests done using my config as per sig in the Vive)

234590

Schadows
21-06-2016, 19:59
On another matter, does someone knows what the "ResScale" parameter is used for in the My documents\openvrsettings.xml ?

I thought it might be a resolution scale/downsampling parameter like you can see in Solus Project for those who tried it since the vr update, but changing it from 1 to 0.5 o 2 didn't affect the performances nor the image quality.

hookman
21-06-2016, 20:08
That's actually what brought me back to give this another go.

As far as I can see it does nothing. I tried both xml files with native vive and revive dlls but changing the value didn't change anything noticeable.

lawicko
22-06-2016, 07:52
It makes me think that some program is getting the focus on itself (or at least out of the game) which makes pcars pause. Then clicking on the mouse (which is probably positioned over the mirrored image) brings back the focus on the game, which resume.
Exactly this, I have minimised all other applications and managed to drive a couple of laps without problem, but after loading another track/car the problem returned. Still, the game loosing focus is responsible for the freezes, now I need to figure out why it happens. It looks strange, but when I look at my desktop when the game looses focus it doesn't really change, I mean there is no indication that some other application takes focus, the mirrored Project Cars view is still on top, but the game freezes anyway.

Schadows
22-06-2016, 08:35
Maybe an app running in the background (check the systray), your antivirus (I always disabled mine when playing to save a few fps) or even a service.
Will be tricky to find for sure u__u

lokpes
26-06-2016, 11:51
I will return my vive, I do not believe this technology is already good for the end consumer.
When I'm playing project cars, with my Predator monitor 34 "Curve. I can play with graphical quality at most, and DSX 4 and I get average of 85 FPS.
With VIVE I have to turn my SLI OFF. and lower the quality to medium even Low. To have something satisfactory. Without saying that the graphical loss is terrible, practically can not see the track signals.

My specs.
| CPU: i7 4790K@4.0GHz | GPU: 2 x EVGA GTX Titan X Hybrid 12GB | Mobo: Maximus Hero VII
| RAM: Corsair Vengeance Pro Red 2x8GB 2400MH | PSU: EVGA SuperNOVA 1300 G2 | HD: Kingston SSDNow V300 240GB
| Monitor: Samsung UD590 @3840 x 2160 Surf + Acer Predator X34 G-Sync 3440x1440 Main Racing.

P.S: sorry for the bad english :)


Or I'm doing something stupidy?

Mattias
27-06-2016, 06:25
I will return my vive, I do not believe this technology is already good for the end consumer.
When I'm playing project cars, with my Predator monitor 34 "Curve. I can play with graphical quality at most, and DSX 4 and I get average of 85 FPS.
With VIVE I have to turn my SLI OFF. and lower the quality to medium even Low. To have something satisfactory. Without saying that the graphical loss is terrible, practically can not see the track signals.

My specs.
| CPU: i7 4790K@4.0GHz | GPU: 2 x EVGA GTX Titan X Hybrid 12GB | Mobo: Maximus Hero VII
| RAM: Corsair Vengeance Pro Red 2x8GB 2400MH | PSU: EVGA SuperNOVA 1300 G2 | HD: Kingston SSDNow V300 240GB
| Monitor: Samsung UD590 @3840 x 2160 Surf + Acer Predator X34 G-Sync 3440x1440 Main Racing.

P.S: sorry for the bad english :)


Or I'm doing something stupidy?

I'd upgrade to i7 6700k, and get ddr4 ram.
Then I'd wait for either the new Titan X or the GTX 1080Ti.
Hopefully project cars implements the new VR features those cards has to double the performance.

All games designed for VR from the ground up have looked amazing even on my GTX 970. But Project CARS... I guess there is too much detail everywhere?

Not saying it might help with your issues, but VR takes a lot of power... Even if you have a Titan X.

Schadows
27-06-2016, 09:31
If you're expecting for a quality on par with what you have on a monitor, I'd encourage you to resell your Vive.
Just take a look at pcars at max settings in your vive (without taking the awful performances into consideration) and you will see there is still a long way before it could happen. Sure, next generation of helmet will have better resolution, but graphic cards will also need to improve to use that higher resolution.

The suggested CPU and RAM upgrade above will have a negligible impact on performances, and as long as the team hasn't implemented the support for nvidia SMP features (they are taking a look at it for the moment ... there are so many things that could prevent them from including it in the end).

For me, the increased immersion win over the graphical downgrade (I still play with reprojection always on in order to achieve bearable graphics), but I can completely understand that people won't think the same.

As for the "games designed for VR from the ground up", they are mostly technical demos/conceptual games at the moment, with stripped down graphics, and a few "ambitious" titles which happen to take place in dark environments to "mask" the screen-door effect.
Games designed without those limitations usually take a big hit in the graphical department (pcars, solus project, etc).


EDIT : On another matter, I keep seeing lots of people using "pthreads 4" launch options despite using a quad cores CPU. Wasn't it defaulted to "2" because that settings wasn't giving satisfactory results since windows keep monopolizing 1 of the cores ?
I didn't follow up on this matter, and maybe I should give it a try too.

Schadows
27-06-2016, 14:50
It seems that it is now possible to use super sampling in the vive too.

Edit the file steamvr.vrsettings located somewhere in your main Steam folder (conflicting feedback about its location some says directly under the steam folder while others say under some sub directory, etc), and add the line in bold (don't forget the coma on the previous line) with the resolution multiplier you want (x2 in this example):

"steamvr" : {
"allowReprojection" : true,
"background" : "C:\\Program Files (x86)\\ViveSetup\\Updater\\viveNight.png",
"renderTargetMultiplier": 2
},

Didn't try it myself yet (but will definitely do when I get back home), but some feedback are already encouraging.

As for project cars, since I already struggle to maintain decent framerate (always playing with reprojection at 45fps) I doubt I will be able to increase the resolution scale that much (maybe replacing DS2X with this and see if it differs in quality despite being the same supposedly).

hookman
28-06-2016, 06:30
This is fantastic news!
I just tried with it set to 1.5 and it looks like an entirely different (and better!) game.
There's no pixel swimming in front of your eyes anymore, and my frame rate holds up as well as it does on 1x.

In fact it's great for pretty much every game I own including Elite. Valve should really include this as a standard option for 1070/1080 owners in steam vr, it makes such a difference...

Schadows
28-06-2016, 12:44
Well, on my side, I'm not so overwhelmed ^^
Obviously, considering my hardware configuration, I couldn't hope to set it to x2 while keeping my current visual settings but I hoped I could increase it a little (the multiplier giving more in-between options than what the game offers for now).
So I started by disabling DS2X and applying a x2 supersampling with this method but not only did the game stuttered heavily (~35 fps ... even reprojection couldn't keep up), but I didn't found the image quality to be as good at before.
I eventually saw the game could maintain a stable 45fps (at Spa on dry track with 19 opponents and starting from middle of the grid) with a value of 1.3, but the game was clearly uglier than when I enabled DS2X.

Considering the little to no improvement (for me) in pcars, and the fact that the multiplier value would have to be set differently per game (too bad Steam doesn't offer this as a launch option or something else configurable per game), I decided to not use it. That option is clearly reserved for top-end graphic cards, and for game with lots of texts which benefit greatly from this.
The Solus Project, the only title where I have lots of small texts, already have a in-game resolution scale (which is applied instantly helping to see the impact).

mr_belowski
29-06-2016, 08:19
My i5 4690k + gtx1080 rig is really struggling to play PCars in the Vive. I have to turn off in-game anti-aliasing entirely or I get horrible judder (like it's running at 10fps), even with only a few opponents in good conditions. This is with everything else set to 'low' or 'off'. As long as I have no AA (and no "renderTargetMultiplier") the game runs fine, but the aliasing is so bad it's really not playable.

I'm a bit confused by this - I expected the CPU to be the bottleneck but it appears that (at least for me) my graphics card just isn't good enough. But it's the best card available :(

Assetto Corsa runs very well indeed using the Revive hack - I can use anti-aliasing with only occasional frame rate dips but perfect perceived 'smoothness' - no judder at all. Having 'room scale vr' is far too distracting in Assetto - I just keep getting out of the car and wandering around on the track, admiring the view instead of racing. But I'd really like to be able to do the same in PCars

Schadows
29-06-2016, 09:06
That is clearly a strange behavior.
Just check at my rig specification and the settings I use in VR (everything is in my sign). Granted that I play at 45fps through reprojection and not 90fps (could reach it on half of Spa track if I disable AA even with opponents).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7p23QciB89Y

If, added to that, your settings are all at low/off with only a few opponents ... that is even more strange. I would expect to disable crowds in the "Virtual Reality" options, maybe set the track details and shadows to low, but everything ... that's a bit harsh.
Did you disabled reprojection in the SteamVR settings ? Reprojection is not ideal, but at least, it prevent stuttering while briefly going under 90 fps.

mr_belowski
29-06-2016, 09:31
No, I've not disabled reprojection (it's enabled but not forced - the default settings). I wondered if there was something fishy about my gfx driver install (I had an AMD card in there before and just uninstalled the AMD software, swapped the card and installed the Nvidia software), but other stuff doesn't seem to be underperforming, just pcars. I'm using Windows 7 (luddite...) but surely it wouldn't make that much difference.

If I keep my head perfectly still the judder is almost bearable, but any head movement is awful.

I've done the usual stuff - deleted the .xml files in the pcars my-documents folder, reset my gfx driver settings to 'default', rebooted, and generally done a fairly complete 'farting about' exercise but to no avail.

I'll try again tonight but having to restart the game between settings changes makes it a very dull exercise when I just want to enjoy my new toy.

Not measured GPU and CPU usage - probably should. IIRC the CPU is at 'default' but if there's an overclock set up in the bios I'll remove it

Schadows
29-06-2016, 09:45
Mine is overclocked as far as I could without voltage modification.

You could indeed monitor the GPU/CPU usage, and also the framerate (need to have the mirrored image displayed so no -vrnomirror launch option).
Maybe you're extremely sensible and reprojection is not enough for you, but from what you described, that seemed too far fetched.

It would greatly help if someone with a 1080 could share his settings and the performances he gets with it, in order to compare.

mr_belowski
29-06-2016, 09:52
Yeah, I'll do some monitoring and see what's happening to the mirrored image on the monitor. The judder isn't minor, it's a bit like being at a rave in the 80s with all the strobe lighting. And less pills.

MuddyPaws73
29-06-2016, 21:55
I thought I would take a minute and share my setting for VR using Vive, since I have the minimal recommended hardware (at least the GPU).

I find the VR very immersive and therefore I'm willing to put up with lower image quality, but for the most part I find these setting to be very acceptable. The slight exception is when first starting a race with 19 racers (that just the number I've used for testing) the screen does shutter, but once the cars start spreading out, the shuttering goes away.

I do raise the anti-aliasing from DS2X to DS4X when doing time trails, since there are no other cars... Oh, I have never recorded the frame rates but I'm sure re-projection is being used at these settings (aka 45 fps).

234733234734234735234736234737234738

Schadows
29-06-2016, 22:02
Maybe I will give a try to pthreads 4 and dx11mt (I thought it was the default mode in64bit) because that's not settings I can use to race with opponents (neither at the start nor during the rest of the race).

EDIT : if you want one day to look at your framerate with fraps or afterburner, you will have to remove the -vrnomirror launch options).

MuddyPaws73
29-06-2016, 22:12
EDIT : if you want one day to look at your framerate with fraps or afterburner, you will have to remove the -vrnomirror launch options).

Right. I was somewhat surprised how much removing the mirrored monitor had on performance. Also, to a lesser extent, disabling my other monitors.

Hopefully, someone with a top end system with a GTX 1080 can post their complete settings too. It would be interesting to compare.

mr_belowski
30-06-2016, 08:19
I'll try the -vrnomirror option.

Weirdly I see CPU and GPU usage around 70 -80 % even when it's stuttering like mad :(

[edit] - Muddy, I'll post my settings if / when I get it working properly. I'm going to spend a bit of time chasing down system problems (PSU, PCI-e settings, power settings, etc) and maybe even bite the bullet and install Windows 10. In the mean time, I'm able to get it to run smoothly only if I run everything at 'low' or 'off', with no more than DSx2 anti-aliasing (i5 4690 / GTX 1080)

hookman
30-06-2016, 17:05
Right. I was somewhat surprised how much removing the mirrored monitor had on performance. Also, to a lesser extent, disabling my other monitors.

Hopefully, someone with a top end system with a GTX 1080 can post their complete settings too. It would be interesting to compare.
I've just set mine up the same as the above screenshots with the following results on Laguna Seca with 20 cars during the day

- I can hold 45fps, but don't get anywhere near 90fps

- If I turn down Environment Map, Car Detail, Track Detail and Shadows to Low then I can almost get to 90fps. This is how I'll generally play with reprojection turned on, as it gives me a smooth 45fps off the start line, then once the pack thins out a bit it goes up to 90fps.


Interestingly I tried with DS2X in game, or 1.5 "renderTargetMultiplier" and both gave pretty much the same frame rate. I think I preferred the "renderTargetMultiplier" as the image seemed less blurry though a little more pixellated.

Schadows
30-06-2016, 19:41
Is there something wrong with -vrnomirror launch options ?

I decided to to a little "benchmark" (-ish) in order to evaluate the impact on performance of that option, but the result is not what I expected, no matter how many times I tried. Maybe someone will see an issue with my methodology, if that's so, don't hesitate to tell.

First, I used SteamVR frame timing (see SteamVR settings) logfile to extract the frame time and convert it to framerate (based on the "TotalRenderGpuMs" column).
Then I did the same event using 4 different settings (the windowed/fullscreen option is the one from the Virtual Reality menu):
- vrnomirror + window mode
- vrnomirror + fullscreen
- windowed mode
- fullscreen

The event was 1 lap race at Spa, heavy cloud weather, 19 opponents with player starting last. The visual settings were just as described in my sign.
Although I couldn't reproduce the exact same race each time (obviously), I tried to behave the same way.

Strangely, and despite many attempt and switch, the results are the same, the -vrnomirror launch options offer lower framerate than when the mirror is displayed (and the stuttering felt heavier during gameplay).

http://i.imgur.com/JJVA7mFl.jpg (http://imgur.com/JJVA7mF)

The difference between fullscreen and windowed seems negligible (and probably due to the difference between both races), but the gap between the race where the mirrored image was displayed, and the one where it was not is huged and cannot be explained only with that (especially for the time spent on the grid where the scenario shouldn't be any different).

As I said earlier, maybe my methodology is wrong, but I can confirm that, while playing and reprojection active, the -vrnomirror cannot substain 45fps at all time (stutter on the grid), while I can't see any obvious stuttering when I let the mirror image displayed.

Next time, I will try to evaluate the impact of -dx11mt and -pthread 4 on my hardware configuration

MuddyPaws73
30-06-2016, 20:00
Let me ask what is "TotalRenderGpuMs"? Could this somehow be "counting" different with data going to both the monitor and the headset (mirror) as opposed to just the headset (nomirror). Maybe it is using the highest rate, which would be to the monitor?

Because just from "seat of the pants" measurements, there seem to be significant difference between mirror and nomirror. "Seat of the pants" measurements would suggest the opposite, albeit not as great of a difference as shown in your graphs.

Schadows
30-06-2016, 20:39
This should be (SteamVR wiki isn't up to date unfortunately) the total time spent by the GPU to render the frame (there are also a lot of other intermediate value like "SceneRenderGpuMs", "CompositorRenderGpuMs", etc.).

But as I said, I now have reactivated the reprojection in order to play, and I only have stuttering & ghosting when I don't display the mirrored image (-vrnomirror). My numbers may be wrong (couldn't figure what was the meaning of every column), but the result is the same ... at least for me. Since the options was implemented aiming to spare some fps and was acknowledged by several people, that may not impact everyone.

rauwman
04-07-2016, 00:30
GTX 1080 here with 4790k
After a lot oft testing specific situations. Only possible way to get +90 FPS is to set all to low, no aa and standard render target.
But if the game runs in the 45 fps mode its still ok to play.... i get only sick if then the framerate gets below that.
Now after many test best playing result for now:
render target in Steam 1.5
hide crows yes
Post-Processing on
lens Flare off
sun ex none
sun in none
bloom off
texture res high
tex. fil. 4x
v-sync no
aa off (if you set in to 2dx it looks amazing in combination with render targer 1.5.... but its maybe bit on limit to hold min 45 fps)
reflections low
env map medium
car detail high
track detail high
shadow low
enhanced mirror no
detailed grass low
particle medium
particle densitiy low

It would be fantastic if you can play on power target 2.5 + aa 4 :p.... maybe possible in 2025

reptilexcq
04-07-2016, 02:06
GTX 1080 here with 4790k
After a lot oft testing specific situations. Only possible way to get +90 FPS is to set all to low, no aa and standard render target.
But if the game runs in the 45 fps mode its still ok to play.... i get only sick if then the framerate gets below that.
Now after many test best playing result for now:
render target in Steam 1.5
hide crows yes
Post-Processing on
lens Flare off
sun ex none
sun in none
bloom off
texture res high
tex. fil. 4x
v-sync no
aa off (if you set in to 2dx it looks amazing in combination with render targer 1.5.... but its maybe bit on limit to hold min 45 fps)
reflections low
env map medium
car detail high
track detail high
shadow low
enhanced mirror no
detailed grass low
particle medium
particle densitiy low

It would be fantastic if you can play on power target 2.5 + aa 4 :p.... maybe possible in 2025

I am surprised that you manage to get just 1.5 with GTX 1080 with AA off. I can get 1.7 with 980ti 6700k w/ AA OFF! This is w/ 15 cars...i don't know how many cars you're talking about. This is possible if you turn grass and shadow off. No water drop and every flare off. But the thing w/ Pcars...you can't play the game WITHOUT AA OFF. It's hard to see far w/ all these jaggies...you have to turn it on at least 2X. If i turn AA on, i manage to get to super sampling to 1.3....which is pretty good...before i managed to get to only 1.2.

Schadows
04-07-2016, 10:27
I have refined my settings this week end (while testing for launch parameters like dx11mt/st or pthreads 2/4), and frankly, seeing how I managed to maintain 45fps with a 970, I'm still surprised you can't reach 90 fps with a 1080 unless you set all visual settings to low without any aa.

I will update the link in my sign in a couple of days, but here are the main points of my configuration :
- skip crowds
- Mirrored image on fullscreen (in case I want to save the video of a race).
- Vive resolution multiplier : 1.1

Everything set to lowest possible value in visual settings except :
- Textures : high
- Anisotropic Filtering : x16
- AA : DS2X
- Car Detail : Medium
- Shadows : Low
- Particules : Low

Like I said in previous posts, I get better performance by leaving the mirrored image on my TV, so no -vrnomirror for me.
I did try dx11mt/dx11st and I get better framerate by 3 or 4 fps with ST which doesn't mean a lot considering the fact I can't replicate the same race exactly each time.
The pthread values didn't change that much too. pthreads set at 2 gave better framerate by only 1-2 fps over pthreads 4.
In the end, I only use -dx11st.

I can maintain a stable 45fps on the first lap (while the pack is not yet spread out) at Spa with heavy cloud weather, starting last with 19 opponents in front of me.
I even have some margin where I could set the car detail to high, but I will see a few frame drop (barely but still noticable) when lots of cars are pilling up in a crash in front of me, so I prefer to keep that margin.

Mattias
04-07-2016, 12:10
I just tried "Distance" (experimental branch on steam), although being an arcade racer, there is no issues with graphics even looking forward hundreds of meters. Rock solid 90fps.
Looks super smooth compared to pCars.

I wish the "low" settings in pCars could be something like that...
Is it just not possible to get it as playable as "Distance" with the current engine for pCars?

I guess this will be history soon when GTX 1080Ti comes out but until then :)

rauwman
04-07-2016, 12:30
I am surprised that you manage to get just 1.5 with GTX 1080 with AA off. I can get 1.7 with 980ti 6700k w/ AA OFF! This is w/ 15 cars...i don't know how many cars you're talking about. This is possible if you turn grass and shadow off. No water drop and every flare off. But the thing w/ Pcars...you can't play the game WITHOUT AA OFF. It's hard to see far w/ all these jaggies...you have to turn it on at least 2X. If i turn AA on, i manage to get to super sampling to 1.3....which is pretty good...before i managed to get to only 1.2.

For now i play 1.5 with 2dx.... but then you have sometime frame drops....


I just tried "Distance" (experimental branch on steam), although being an arcade racer, there is no issues with graphics even looking forward hundreds of meters. Rock solid 90fps.
Looks super smooth compared to pCars.

I wish the "low" settings in pCars could be something like that...
Is it just not possible to get it as playable as "Distance" with the current engine for pCars?

I guess this will be history soon when GTX 1080Ti comes out but until then :)

History mabe with a GTX 3080 or better optimization.... We are far away from graphiccards with performance needed for VR.

crowtrobot
04-07-2016, 13:15
You guys are aware that the in-game AA settings (DS2X, DS4X, etc.) and the render target are both setting a multiplier for supersampling, correct?

DS2X is already rendering the image at 4320x2400. The Vive is already rendering at a 1.4x multiplier from what people have found, so without any AA in-game you're at 3024x1680, then by enabling the in-game AA, say DS2X, you're at 6048x3360. Then by setting that rendertarget to something like 2 and trying to use the ingame AA, you'll be trying to render an 8k image (8640x4800) !!

Not terribly surprising that you are getting frame drops.

Schadows
04-07-2016, 15:14
I don't think people have complained about not being able to use DS?x combined with a high multiplier.

Although I didn't know that the image was already rendered at 1.4x the vive native resolution (source ? you mean or pcars only or generally?), DS2X and 2x multiplier don't offer the same quality (DS2X is way better for me AA-wise but brings a more blurry image). I use a combination of DS2X and 1.1 multiplier because the game doesn't offer any option in-between each AA preset value.


I just tried "Distance" (experimental branch on steam), although being an arcade racer, there is no issues with graphics even looking forward hundreds of meters. Rock solid 90fps.
Looks super smooth compared to pCars.

I wish the "low" settings in pCars could be something like that...
Is it just not possible to get it as playable as "Distance" with the current engine for pCars?

I guess this will be history soon when GTX 1080Ti comes out but until then :)Not sure pcars could afford to downgrade the assets that much, and dark lighting masking empty environments (i really mean empty like "no ground nor boundary at all") and the screen-door effect.
I really enjoyed Distance too (not tested in VR) but the requirements for this title a too far from pcars from the begining.

But I'm sure that if pcars 2 will take VR more into consideration when building it's new engine.

rauwman
04-07-2016, 15:19
You guys are aware that the in-game AA settings (DS2X, DS4X, etc.) and the render target are both setting a multiplier for supersampling, correct?

DS2X is already rendering the image at 4320x2400. The Vive is already rendering at a 1.4x multiplier from what people have found, so without any AA in-game you're at 3024x1680, then by enabling the in-game AA, say DS2X, you're at 6048x3360. Then by setting that rendertarget to something like 2 and trying to use the ingame AA, you'll be trying to render an 8k image (8640x4800) !!

Not terribly surprising that you are getting frame drops.

But render target in steam to 1.5 looks much sharpers as only set in ingame to 4dx

Same Problem in Elite.... there you can also set ingame ss to 2x.... but its still not sharp.... you have to change the render Target.

to reptilexcq: tested it now with 1.3 and 2dx (grass also off)... best result fps/optic

reptilexcq
04-07-2016, 20:53
But render target in steam to 1.5 looks much sharpers as only set in ingame to 4dx

Same Problem in Elite.... there you can also set ingame ss to 2x.... but its still not sharp.... you have to change the render Target.

to reptilexcq: tested it now with 1.3 and 2dx (grass also off)... best result fps/optic

Yes 1.3 is the highest i can get to with grass and shadow off; 15 cars; all visual effects off except crepuscular rays (i don't know about you, but i like crepuscular rays); no water drops; exposure compensation 0.6;hide crowd; everything low except texture res to high;texture filtering 2x; I am doing this under clear, light rain and foggy rain.

Some of these graphics settings you don't really need to set to high or ultra. Like car and track details. Track details basically add more seats to the tracks and car details...i mean when you drive, you don't really pay much attention to the little details. The more important thing is texture res because it makes things clear and sharper.

I try 1.7 with no AA and it looks great but without AA, everything in the distance look shimmering and jaggies in VR and it strains your eyes. I can't stand it! I had to go back to 1.3 w/ AA on.

This is for 980ti 6700k 24Gb ddr4.

rauwman
05-07-2016, 12:18
Here:
Render Target 1.3 - GTX 1080
fullscreen off
hide crows yes
ppf on
lens flare off
sun f ex min
sund f in min
bloom off
glob spec irr off
expos comp 0.9
rain drops yes
crepusc rays no
screen dirt no
texture res high
texture filtering 8x
v-sync off
aa ds2x
reflections low
envir map low
car detail high
track detail high
shadows low
enhanced mirror no
render frames ahead 1
detailed grass off
particle level low
particle density low

With this setting i can play without big problems and didn't get sick and it looks good.

reptilexcq
05-07-2016, 18:21
Here:
Render Target 1.3 - GTX 1080
fullscreen off
hide crows yes
ppf on
lens flare off
sun f ex min
sund f in min
bloom off
glob spec irr off
expos comp 0.9
rain drops yes
crepusc rays no
screen dirt no
texture res high
texture filtering 8x
v-sync off
aa ds2x
reflections low
envir map low
car detail high
track detail high
shadows low
enhanced mirror no
render frames ahead 1
detailed grass off
particle level low
particle density low

With this setting i can play without big problems and didn't get sick and it looks good.

This is the best you can do with 1080? How many cars is this? What happened if you bump it up to 1.4 under the same scenario? Is there jitters? What about if you turn off rain drop and shadow...what is the highest super sampling without jitter in light rain w/ 15 cars?

Schadows
05-07-2016, 18:31
Frankly, playing without shadow makes the game look very flat.

mr_belowski
06-07-2016, 07:17
Quick update to on my vive performance issues. I replaced my ram yesterday. I had 3 sticks of 1333 in there, a matched pair of 2 gig sticks and a single 4 gig stick, all cheap stuff and all quite old (like 7 years old). I swapped it for a pair of 8 gig 2400 sticks (I have an i5 4690k running at 4.2).

This has completely resolved all my performance issues. I'm now able to run with medium to high details and DS4x anti-aliasing with no frame drops at all sitting at the back of a 19 car grid in cloudy weather (brands hatch). I'm not using in the renderTargetMultiplyer hack but I'll give that a try too.

Before changing the ram I was getting regular frame drops at DS2x with low details (no shadows) - it was playable but race starts were a bit ropey. Early days yet (I was only fiddling for 10 minutes) but it appears that PCars + vive really doesn't like shit ram. Or perhaps it really benefits from having 16 gig.

RomKnight
06-07-2016, 13:43
Haswell CPUs are quite "dependent" on ram. I've mentioned this before a couple of times. I had the same issues years ago. ATM I really don't see why people still buy anything below 1866Mhz RAM for gaming. It doesn't make sense.

indubious
15-07-2016, 17:56
Gamespot is one of the few to include a VR test in their benchmark (roadtovr is using pcars (http://www.roadtovr.com/nvidia-gtx-1080-benchmark-review-performance-head-to-head-against-the-980ti/3/#project-cars) among other things but I don't know how they are getting the fps count though), although it is the SteamVR performance test.
They released their 1070 review (http://www.gamespot.com/articles/nvidia-geforce-gtx-1070-review/1100-6440307/), and in VR :

233959

Yeah so these are brute force benchmarks not using any of the new code/architecture available with those cards. These framerates should double if the code is adjusted to take advantage of the VR features in the 1070/1080 hardware.

https://blogs.nvidia.com/blog/2016/05/06/pascal-vrworks/

Schadows
15-07-2016, 18:54
Indeed, but will developers (who aren't using Unreal Engine or Unity) implement proprietary solutions like those available in VRWorks?
Considering the size of the GTX 1000 series market, unless you want to do it now in order to bring the spotlight on your game, I wonder if there is that much ROI in that.

Also, I'm still very skeptical about the x2 perf Nvidia claimed in its presentation, when combining Lens Match Shading and Single Pass Stereo. Firsts feedback about their implementation in Unreal Engine and Unity talked about a 30% (which is already very good but far from what was announced), and even the demo during nvidia announcement was showing a 30% to 45% improvement.

But it is only the beginning of VR and lots of new features will come up as the time goes by.
Even if I find it lacking without proper eye tracking, Fixed Fovated Rendering (Nvidia's Multi Res Shading is an example of that) or even Radial Density Masking will help too, as would Adaptative quality (as demonstrated by Valve during the latest GDC (http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1023522/Advanced-VR-Rendering) ... see chapter 21).
No doubt new tricks will pop up on the road.

indubious
15-07-2016, 19:17
Indeed, but will developers (who aren't using Unreal Engine or Unity) implement proprietary solutions like those available in VRWorks?
Considering the size of the GTX 1000 series market, unless you want to do it now in order to bring the spotlight on your game, I wonder if there is that much ROI in that.

Also, I'm still very skeptical about the x2 perf Nvidia claimed in its presentation, when combining Lens Match Shading and Single Pass Stereo. Firsts feedback about their implementation in Unreal Engine and Unity talked about a 30% (which is already very good but far from what was announced), and even the demo during nvidia announcement was showing a 30% to 45% improvement.

But it is only the beginning of VR and lots of new features will come up as the time goes by.
Even if I find it lacking without proper eye tracking, Fixed Fovated Rendering (Nvidia's Multi Res Shading is an example of that) or even Radial Density Masking will help too, as would Adaptative quality (as demonstrated by Valve during the latest GDC (http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1023522/Advanced-VR-Rendering) ... see chapter 21).
No doubt new tricks will pop up on the road.


Yeah, I hear you but it seems both major gpu venders are coding for this differently. AMD with liquidVR and hardware changes, NVidia with hardware changes and the appropriate software. Either way, whichever upgrade option you chose software publishers need to use that updated code to properly support. But yes everything VR is early adopter state. But, if they are going to support it they might as well do it correctly.

Schadows
15-07-2016, 20:55
The reason why DirectX gained so much momuntum in the late 90's was precisely because rendering api was a jungle, with each card manufacturer offering its own (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DU5Zi69QPQs) (Glide, SGL, CIF, S3D, etc.), OpenGL was already caught in an internal battle over the direction it should follow, and MS did a good job at offering standardization.

Unfortunately, VR is precisely a jungle right now.
Nvidia has offered several features so far (VR and non VR) but has almost always made it proprietary, limiting their expansion.
AMD offered lots of improvements too, usually making it "open" but still driven by their architecture, making it hard for Nvidia to adopt obviously.
As long a Manufacturers will be the one to promote features (people in these companies don't live of love and water alone), standardization will have a long road ahead.

MuddyPaws73
17-07-2016, 22:18
I been continuing to experiment with the settings in hopes of getting better resolution with the Vive in PCars VR. It appears setting the FXAA and SMAA option in the Nvidia Control Panel under 3D Settings didn't have any noticeable effect.

In the file graphicsconfigopenvrdx11.xml changing <prop name="FXAA" fxaa="3"> and <prop name="SMAA" smaa="1"> sets the in game locked properties FXAA and SMAA from zero to more in-line with what Nvidia recommends for PCars VR. Setting AA to DSX2 within PCars along with these changes seem to provide pretty good results.

Has anyone else tried these setting? What are your thoughts?

Schadows
20-07-2016, 18:57
Did someone found or created a SteamVR environment related to racing (being in the pit lane would be cool) ?
At the moment I'm still using the Elite Dangerous hangar environment.

indubious
02-08-2016, 18:16
Quick update to on my vive performance issues. I replaced my ram yesterday. I had 3 sticks of 1333 in there, a matched pair of 2 gig sticks and a single 4 gig stick, all cheap stuff and all quite old (like 7 years old). I swapped it for a pair of 8 gig 2400 sticks (I have an i5 4690k running at 4.2).

This has completely resolved all my performance issues. I'm now able to run with medium to high details and DS4x anti-aliasing with no frame drops at all sitting at the back of a 19 car grid in cloudy weather (brands hatch). I'm not using in the renderTargetMultiplyer hack but I'll give that a try too.

Before changing the ram I was getting regular frame drops at DS2x with low details (no shadows) - it was playable but race starts were a bit ropey. Early days yet (I was only fiddling for 10 minutes) but it appears that PCars + vive really doesn't like shit ram. Or perhaps it really benefits from having 16 gig.

Just FYI. Tried this upgrade on my AMD CPU based system - 1080 gfx. I haven't seen the same performance increase.

Oddly I cant say that the game FPS is that slow. It's just that head tracking in the game is lagged compared to every other Vive game I've played. If I never turn my head it "appears" fast as hell. I just can't figure out why head tracking would lag at all in game and I haven't found any tool for testing the difference in normal vr games vs pCars.

GrimGreener
07-09-2016, 10:56
I been continuing to experiment with the settings in hopes of getting better resolution with the Vive in PCars VR. It appears setting the FXAA and SMAA option in the Nvidia Control Panel under 3D Settings didn't have any noticeable effect.

In the file graphicsconfigopenvrdx11.xml changing <prop name="FXAA" fxaa="3"> and <prop name="SMAA" smaa="1"> sets the in game locked properties FXAA and SMAA from zero to more in-line with what Nvidia recommends for PCars VR. Setting AA to DSX2 within PCars along with these changes seem to provide pretty good results.

Has anyone else tried these setting? What are your thoughts?

Bit late but prefer to resurrect a thread rather than starting a separate one.. been playing with lots of stuff since getting PCARS.
Biggest single change was switching off hyperthreading which took CPU ftom 40 to 45% to 60% stabilised the frame rate at 45...no drops below this, allowed me to add 2xAA and a nice 1.3x supersampling. Starts were a bit jittery when is doing lots of cars and the stands so I've finally got around to over clocking my rig (not needed to in the 2 years I've had it). Now running my i7 4820k at 4.4ghz set the memory to run at 1600 as it was incorrectly picking up 1333 from the xmp. 1080 is now set to boat to 1850mhz with the ram at 5350. All stable and smooth... but still 45fps. Would first 10 minute race at Le Mans as I was watching the track instead of jitter ingredients scenery :) Its fine as long as you don't like looking out the side windows ;) I'm still going on to see if I can get to 90 some how...next job is over clocking a bit more and trying the memory but I'm likely to replace it with some faster chips. Think my overall 3d mark is up from round 5700 to around 7200 already on Timespy.
Rig...
i7 4820k 4.4ghz OC air-cooled.
MSI GD45 Plus
32GB (4x8) 1600Mhz Corsair vengeance
MSI 1080 founders edition at 1850mhz
Twin Samsung Evo 250 GB ssds
Windows 10 Pro
HTC Vive
Driving force GT from my PS3 ;)

hookman
10-10-2016, 19:22
I just switched to the dark side having heard good things about ASW on the rift, initial impressions...

My test was Laguna seca with a grid of 20 cars.

Vive : all settings low, no super sampling, judder through the first few corners as it struggled to hold 90fps. Picture quality pretty terrible.

Rift : all settings high, 1.8 pixel density, ASW on. Silky smooth for the whole race, I honestly couldn't tell it was running the race at 45fps.

After that I even had a go in storm conditions with perfect results too. Given previous vive performance I honestly thought we were at least two generations away from racing with a full grid in the rain like that. Very impressed!

Schadows
11-10-2016, 18:42
interesting feedback, thank you.
When you say you experience judder because the game can't hold 90fps, I suppose you still have reprojection activated ?

I had read about their latest spacewarp tech, but I didn't thought it was that amazing.

hookman
11-10-2016, 21:42
I disabled reprojection, as I found that it made the cars too blurry/fuzzy for me. Unfortunately holding 90fps as you know is very difficult in VR in project cars.

There's plenty of others with the same impression about ASW in project cars here:

https://www.reddit.com/r/oculus/comments/568i2t/quick_impressions_on_asynchronous_space_warp/?st=iu4chvpx&sh=0529ebe1

The only thing I have noticed image quality wise is dirt particles seem to have corruption around them, other than that I can't tell the difference between 90fps and 45fps.

I think the reason it works wonders for project cars is I'm just not convinced the engine is designed to get to 90fps. It seems 45fps is a more reasonable target, even with all the eye candy turned up to maximum.

Schadows
11-10-2016, 22:21
So, that isn't a fair comparison since you're comparing one system without reprojection, and the other with (some kind of) reprojection. Judder/stutter is a normal phenomenon in this case, unless you succeed in running at constant 45fps.

I must admit i'm one of these people who can't tell when a game is switching from 90fps to 45fps with reprojection. In project cars, that's not really a problem since the game is running at 45fps 99.9% of the time when racing, but even in other games I don't feel the difference (lucky me).

hookman
11-10-2016, 22:33
Yes, in the end it comes down to the fact that I (and nearly everyone I read about online) can't tell the difference between 45fps with ASW and 90fps without.

You are lucky that reprojection feels like 90fps to you, most likely switching to ASW would not be of much benefit to yourself.

Personally I feel like reprojection and ASW are night and day difference, here's a good technical explanation of the difference between Regular Timewarp (reprojection), Async Timewarp, and Async Spacewarp:

https://www.reddit.com/r/oculus/comments/56720c/eli5_difference_between_atw_asw_and_reprojection/d8gugl0

MaximusN
03-11-2016, 11:29
Any of you tried the async reprojection (Steam VR's version of async time warp)? It's in the latest beta. I didn't test higher settings, but it felt a lot more fluent than before.

rauwman
03-11-2016, 16:02
Yea tested it today. Amazing :)
But you have to get shure that only Asyncron Reprojection is on and the other one disabled. (standard are both enabled)

Schadows
22-11-2016, 20:54
Any of you tried the async reprojection (Steam VR's version of async time warp)? It's in the latest beta. I didn't test higher settings, but it felt a lot more fluent than before.Just tested it.
Like MaximusN said, I had to disable interleaved reprojection (both were enabled by default), otherwise it was a stuttering mess.

I tried switching from interleaved to asynchronous, and back, but I didn't noticed any differences (but as I said I wasn't seeing any difference between 90 and interleaved 45 fps before).
I will leave it at async from now on since it seems to be a better reprojection technique anyway

MaximusN
23-11-2016, 14:13
Just tested it.
Like MaximusN said, I had to disable interleaved reprojection (both were enabled by default), otherwise it was a stuttering mess.

I tried switching from interleaved to asynchronous, and back, but I didn't noticed any differences (but as I said I wasn't seeing any difference between 90 and interleaved 45 fps before).
I will leave it at async from now on since it seems to be a better reprojection technique anyway

It was Rauwman who said that. :)

But I have another question. How does the supersampling introduced in the new patch interacht with the supersampling in the steamvr.setting file ("renderTargetMultiplier": x.y) ? Does one overrule the other or do they multiply? The last option could make it pretty tasking for your system.

Schadows
23-11-2016, 14:52
Right, thanks Rauwman.

Don't know about how each ss value work together, but I don't have a supersampling value anymore in steamvr config files, so there shouldn't be any problem on that side.
My tests are always done during 3 laps at Spa, 5pm with heavy cloud and real time progression, using gt3 class, starting last behind 19 opponents. Even using 1.1 multiplier induce a few frame drops during the first lap, so I don't use supersampling.

bullpup
25-11-2016, 16:18
What I would like to know what the difference is compared to DS2X / DS4X etc. since I thought they were also just supersampling. Is there a difference in performance or quality?

rauwman
29-11-2016, 13:20
even with a gtx 1080 you can't run DS4X with playable fps... ( i got one)
I play with render target 1.3 and DS2X, runs as i said with Asyncron Reprojection really good.... can play longer than 2 hours (other settings i posted on another page)
I tested RT 1.0 with DS4X and RT 2.0 no ingame SS both not playable... you get sick after 15 mins.
RT 2.0 and DS4X looks amazing, but the graphic card that can handle this will maybe come 2020 ^^

Schadows
29-11-2016, 13:29
What I would like to know what the difference is compared to DS2X / DS4X etc. since I thought they were also just supersampling. Is there a difference in performance or quality?in-game DownSampling, like nVidia DSR, adds some image filtering to the mix.
I tried swapping DS2X for resScale 2 (didn't know if the multiplier was for pixel or spatial resolution), and although the image is sharper/crisper, there is a lot more aliasing that with the in-game downsampling.

reptilexcq
09-12-2016, 14:29
even with a gtx 1080 you can't run DS4X with playable fps... ( i got one)
I play with render target 1.3 and DS2X, runs as i said with Asyncron Reprojection really good.... can play longer than 2 hours (other settings i posted on another page)
I tested RT 1.0 with DS4X and RT 2.0 no ingame SS both not playable... you get sick after 15 mins.
RT 2.0 and DS4X looks amazing, but the graphic card that can handle this will maybe come 2020 ^^

Really? I have 980ti and I can do AA at 4x, RT at 1.6 and Steam SS at 1.0...can do 20 AI cars w no slow. And almost everything at max. I have 6700k cpu.

Schadows
09-12-2016, 14:41
I would say it's your results that are surprising.
Supposing what you and rauwman are calling RT is the ResScale parameter in pcars config files, I don't think I've seen anyone else having any success running both AA at DS4X and ResScale = 1.6 without "almost" everything at max.

Lots of people (myself included) are probably interested in your detailed graphic settings and your launch parameters.

Menacer
20-01-2017, 06:50
Really? I have 980ti and I can do AA at 4x, RT at 1.6 and Steam SS at 1.0...can do 20 AI cars w no slow. And almost everything at max. I have 6700k cpu.

Errr wow.... if that's the case I think I'll send back my 1080s!! Well I guess the real question is whats your frame rate?

RomKnight
20-01-2017, 10:20
SLI does not work with VR headsets AFAIK. Keep one but send the other to me Menacer :D

I'm still waiting for mine (vive) but that's a good question. AFAIK, from reading because mine is not here yet, direct mode at 90FPS is desirable but 45 with reprojection can be as good, or at least passable? But I still can't quite grasp how the thing works because there's no video's on YT that can SHOW all the differences.

Schadows
20-01-2017, 12:12
Well, SLI does work, but it needs some specific work to do so (and shown in the Nvidia VR Funhouse technical demo).

My friends and I didn't notice any differences between 90fps and 45 fps reprojected, but some people seem to be able to notice it. It will depend on how sensible you are.

RomKnight
21-01-2017, 13:27
Damn, I've been reading but nowhere I've seen SLI support for VR!

Have a link?


wrt FPS as long as they are stable/locked i don't thing ppl notice it. But there is a difference in the amount of info displayed so there will be a difference in the precision of our inputs. Remember that with pCARS the physics run at 600Hz... with 45FPS that's get even more diluted and it is already on our FFB wheels that run max 500Hz AFAIK.
Yes we adapt and still can be pretty accurate but I for one do notice when the frame rate drops below a monitor refresh rate.

One thing is not having more FPS available another one is being capable of and not being there. There's a reason for 144Hz monitors and high level competition in e-sports :)

Precision/accuracy is quite an edge.

Schadows
21-01-2017, 14:09
You might have misunderstood what I wrote, so to be more specific, SLI work in VR as Nvidia shown in it's technical demo
http://www.geforce.com/whats-new/articles/nvidia-vr-funhouse-released-download-for-free

But it isn't implemented in pcars (or in any game that I know of)


Nvidia Funhouse VR is more of a technical demo than a game, using most of Nvidia proprietary features included in Nvidia GameWorks (Flex, Flow, Haiworks, PhysX Destruction), and especially two which are greatly useful in VR:
- multi-res shading (having the center of the image displayed at a better resolution than the side)
- SLI support.

The bad news is (at least for this demo) ... you need 3 GPU ^^
2 Pascal card for SLI rendering, and a 980 Ti to run PhysX (WTF?!).

Well, most games wouldn't need or use such advanced PhysX features anyway.



As for reprojection, since the game is still rendered at 90 fps thanks to an interpolated image, it can creates some visual artefacts (a little ghosting like you could find with temporal anti aliasing), but I don't have eyes capable of noticing that XD

rallye_ltu
21-01-2017, 22:52
Hello every one, I have a question about Pcars and HTC vive, does some one can create car mode for Pcars VR ? I wan to have mazda RX-8 on the game :)) maybe someone know where I can find some one who are working with something like this :)))


THANK YOU!!!

rallye_ltu
22-01-2017, 14:33
No one know this ? than maybe someone know where to find this information ? thanks

Schadows
22-01-2017, 17:23
This more a question about modding than VR. You should probably look in the topic related to mods.

RomKnight
24-01-2017, 10:16
Got mine. Need time to test though. Just did a quick run with AC (via Revive) and immersion leve is over 9000 and... it ends there. The nausea and flickering with AA and sttuff turned all the way up except PP off because I couldn't see crap with it.
Really not optimised.

pC is not installed and pC2... well, can't talk about it but it's something else ;)
Need to try Dirt when/if I get it because I've read it's amazing.

I do need to turn Async Reprojection On though. I left Interleaved OFF but I need time to test both.

PS: I'm using steamVR beta

MaximusN
24-01-2017, 19:20
AC runs fine on my system even before they introduced async... Aren't you limiting frames or something? I have a 1080 too, paired with a 4770k, but it's at default speed

Rogue787
09-02-2017, 00:21
Hi Guys,

Im new to VR as ive decided to go for immersion over image quality (hence bought VR instead of triples)

What performance could i expect on vive from the following setup?

I can save about 500 buy using i5 7500 and a 1070 but from my reading that may not be a good idea?

Intel BX80677I77700 Core i7-7700 3.6GHz 8MB LGA1151 1 $439.00 $439.00 10.00
Kaby Lake Boxed CPU

Asus PRIME H270 PLUS Intel H270 S1151/4xDDR4/2xPCI 1 $175.00 $175.00 10.00
Ex16/HDMI/DVI/D-SUB/ATX Motherboard

Gigabyte N1080G1-GAMING-8GD 8GB GTX 1080 G1 Gam 1 $895.00 $895.00 10.00
ing PCI-E VGA Card

Corsair Vengeance LPX CMK16GX4M2A2133C13 (Black) 1 $149.00 $149.00 10.00
16GB Kit (8Gx2) DDR4 2133 Desktop RAM

Thermaltake Versa N26 (CA-3G3-60M1WA-00) USB3.0 1 $119.00 $119.00 10.00
Black Mid Tower Case with 80 PLUS 600W PSU

Microsoft OEM 64Bit MS Windows Home 10 (KW9-00139) 1 $129.00 $129.00 10.00

Rogue787
09-02-2017, 01:40
Hi Guys,

Im new to VR as ive decided to go for immersion over image quality (hence bought VR instead of triples)

What performance could i expect on vive from the following setup?

I can save about 500 buy using i5 7500 and a 1070 but from my reading that may not be a good idea?

Intel BX80677I77700 Core i7-7700 3.6GHz 8MB LGA1151 1 $439.00 $439.00 10.00
Kaby Lake Boxed CPU

Asus PRIME H270 PLUS Intel H270 S1151/4xDDR4/2xPCI 1 $175.00 $175.00 10.00
Ex16/HDMI/DVI/D-SUB/ATX Motherboard

Gigabyte N1080G1-GAMING-8GD 8GB GTX 1080 G1 Gam 1 $895.00 $895.00 10.00
ing PCI-E VGA Card

Corsair Vengeance LPX CMK16GX4M2A2133C13 (Black) 1 $149.00 $149.00 10.00
16GB Kit (8Gx2) DDR4 2133 Desktop RAM

Thermaltake Versa N26 (CA-3G3-60M1WA-00) USB3.0 1 $119.00 $119.00 10.00
Black Mid Tower Case with 80 PLUS 600W PSU

Microsoft OEM 64Bit MS Windows Home 10 (KW9-00139) 1 $129.00 $129.00 10.00


or would it be just as good to keep this with the 1080 but use the i5 7500 3.4 to save a few pennies

Rogue787
09-02-2017, 03:36
so ive just decided to be done with it and went

i7 7700
asus prime h270 plus
gigabyte gtx 1080g1 8gb
16gb DDR4
WINDOWS 10

hope it runs well!

Schadows
09-02-2017, 07:00
The higher the spec you can afford, the les compromises toi will have to make (not that you can reach the quality of TV/monitor).
With this, you should be able to crank up the graphics, but I doubt you can maintain 90fps in race situations anyway (will have to use reproduction)

Rogue787
10-02-2017, 05:15
The higher the spec you can afford, the les compromises toi will have to make (not that you can reach the quality of TV/monitor).
With this, you should be able to crank up the graphics, but I doubt you can maintain 90fps in race situations anyway (will have to use reproduction)

thanks for the feedback ill let you know how it goes. what is this reproduction and how does it affect the experience?

Schadows
10-02-2017, 08:15
sorry, it was "auto corrected" by my phone. I meant reprojection (the games runs at half the framerate, hence 45 fps, but each images is reprojected once with a slight adjustement to make the tracking feel smooth.
Some people notice it (example are on this forum), but most of people don't (my case).
Either way, it's way better than disabling reprojection and letting the framerate vary between 45 and 90fps.

mr_belowski
10-02-2017, 11:33
I agree with Schadows. Some folks prefer asynchronous reprojection, some prefer interleaved. Even with high-end hardware you have to decide between a low resolution image with little anti-aliasing, or reprojection. Even with a 1080 and fast CPU, PCars struggles to maintain 90fps without major image quality compromises. Personally I find the aliasing (jagged edges and shimmering) really unpleasant so I use supersampling and allow the game to rely on reprojection (I have a Windows10, 1080FE, i5 4690 @ 4.4GHz and 16gb ram). Interleaved reprojection means you'll get ghosting on objects which move across you field of view. Asynchronous reprojection means you get stuttering of these objects but no ghosting. It's a matter of preference - I find ghosting less off-putting.

RomKnight
10-02-2017, 14:02
I do the same. I just use car and track at ultra and use msaa with SS.

Need to test for compromise with lots of cars in wet weather but I think it's best to have some quality image in VR so, for the time being I'm willing to sacrifice FPS knowing that if there's the slightest stuttering i'll have to dial something back on that.

But TBH, reprojection is doing it's job and I can have smooth play with at least 23 AI around me which is great, in cloudy weather :)

hookman
10-02-2017, 23:07
Interleaved reprojection means you'll get ghosting on objects which move across you field of view. Asynchronous reprojection means you get stuttering of these objects but no ghosting. It's a matter of preference - I find ghosting less off-putting.
Those are the options with a Vive.
On the rift you can use Asynchronous Space warp which means objects don't stutter or ghost when running at 45fps.

For this reason I actually bought a rift and sold my Vive, to me is was like night and day difference, though I understand other people aren't as bothered by it.

Rogue787
11-02-2017, 06:19
What about 2 gtx 1080 together?

Looks I'll have some work to do. Are all these settings you talk about in pcars settings?

Schadows
11-02-2017, 08:53
Pcars, like 99.9% of VR games don't support VR SLI.
AS far as I know (but I could be wrong I didn't follow the VR news that closely in the latest months), only Nvidia technical demo "VR Funhouse" implement VR SLI support.

RomKnight
13-02-2017, 20:15
Hmm, somthing's wrong on one definition there because Async reprojection doesn't ghost anything here :p

Schadows
13-02-2017, 20:27
That's what he said (;p)


Interleaved reprojection means you'll get ghosting on objects which move across you field of view. Asynchronous reprojection means you get stuttering of these objects but no ghosting.

Frankly, I didn't notice more stuttering with async reprojection so I left it enabled (but I disabled interleave because I was getting heavy stuttering before realizing both were enabled by default)

Rogue787
15-02-2017, 05:32
thanks for the feedback, where can i look for a good setup explanation for visual and VR settings in both PC and vive to start?

Schadows
15-02-2017, 06:57
I don't think there is much you can do in the vive settings about image quality.
As for the game settings, I think the most reliable source will be here, looking a few pages back for other people settings. Mine are in my sign, but I "only" have a GTX 970, so you should aim for someone with a 1080 obviously.

RomKnight
15-02-2017, 10:16
Is there a reason to go get a gtx980 instead of a gtx1060 (6GB)?

/edit

I need a card for my older i5-750 to play less demanding games like... pinball ;) in VR.

Schadows
15-02-2017, 11:35
Pascal cards (like the 1060) are more future proof vr-wise, because of the built in VR optimisation (SMP Engine, DPS, etc).
But if you only aim for games like VR pinball and such, the 980 might be a good and cheaper alternative (especially if you are open to used cards from people wanting to switch to Pascal cards).

RomKnight
15-02-2017, 12:20
My dilema in fact... IF i can get a cheap 980 I'll probably go for it otherwise I might take the 1060, even if the 3GB one.

Rogue787
16-02-2017, 04:29
Can someone please point me in the right direction to help myself.

Where can I find individual descriptions of each VR / Visual setting?

RomKnight
16-02-2017, 10:51
What to you mean? Can you give examples?

To me, the important ones are anti aliasing and supersampling.

If the game does not have the SS setting you can try and change it in your hw folder for sure. Vive, a.e., has a file steamvr.vrsettings file in your steam/config folder IIRC.

There you can change "renderTargetMultiplier": 1.0 to 1.5 or more (you need to experiment to find a sweet spot). But beware that you should do this in the game. Just use this as last resort because it'll affect ALL VR games you play and AFAIK there's no way to manage this except editing this file manually or using games own option.

Also, this is very GPU intensive so 2.0 would mean 2 times your current resolution for your GPU to render. Try to find a sweet spot between this and anti aliasing methods available in the games starting with low graphics settings and then start changing those. wrt to pCARS specifically, Environment map, reflections and shadows are the most GPU intensive (and if you drive inside cockpit you can leave them at low really). Disable the grass high textures (or something like this because it has a significant hit on FPS too).

Also, if you do want info on that file, start at the source: https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/SteamVR/steamvr.vrsettings

Schadows
16-02-2017, 12:38
I think he is talking of something more simple, like a description (and impact) of each option in the "Visual Settings" and "Virtual Reality" menus in the game.
I don't have time right now, but if no one has posted a link or description to those, I will do it in the evening.

RomKnight
16-02-2017, 13:37
Then My answer should be a good starting point. SS to 1.5, AA medium and visuals to low and go up from there.

Pretty much like any other game in VR TBH...

Schadows
16-02-2017, 14:23
SS 1.5 with AA (does VR mode has "medium" settings ? I though there was only DS2X, etc.) is already something very stressful for the system. I know he has a good rig, but i'm not sure I would recommand to start with SS right from the start (especially if has trouble just to understand what the existing visual options do), especially if he want to race (and not just do some hotlaps).
Anyway, he will be the one to decide in the end what he want to trade between graphics and framerate.

RomKnight
16-02-2017, 18:05
I don't remeber pC1 settings. Mea culpa :(

SS1.5 with MSAA or FXAA (one? both? ) then.

I actually never played pC1 in VR... but Downsampling WITH Supersampling can be quite a hit I imagine. Better leave SS 1.5 with MSAA/FXAA

To use DS2X I'd leave SS at 1 but nothing like testing to see the results wrt to image quality vs FPS to find the sweet spot.

Rogue787
17-02-2017, 04:44
What to you mean? Can you give examples?

To me, the important ones are anti aliasing and supersampling.

If the game does not have the SS setting you can try and change it in your hw folder for sure. Vive, a.e., has a file steamvr.vrsettings file in your steam/config folder IIRC.

There you can change "renderTargetMultiplier": 1.0 to 1.5 or more (you need to experiment to find a sweet spot). But beware that you should do this in the game. Just use this as last resort because it'll affect ALL VR games you play and AFAIK there's no way to manage this except editing this file manually or using games own option.

Also, this is very GPU intensive so 2.0 would mean 2 times your current resolution for your GPU to render. Try to find a sweet spot between this and anti aliasing methods available in the games starting with low graphics settings and then start changing those. wrt to pCARS specifically, Environment map, reflections and shadows are the most GPU intensive (and if you drive inside cockpit you can leave them at low really). Disable the grass high textures (or something like this because it has a significant hit on FPS too).

Also, if you do want info on that file, start at the source: https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/SteamVR/steamvr.vrsettings

THANKS!

Rogue787
17-02-2017, 04:52
I don't remeber pC1 settings. Mea culpa :(

SS1.5 with MSAA or FXAA (one? both? ) then.

I actually never played pC1 in VR... but Downsampling WITH Supersampling can be quite a hit I imagine. Better leave SS 1.5 with MSAA/FXAA

To use DS2X I'd leave SS at 1 but nothing like testing to see the results wrt to image quality vs FPS to find the sweet spot.

So ss 1.5 is a setting in NVIDIA is it? where is MSAA and FXAA?

My starting point has been everything at low with anisotropic 16x ,V-sync off ,dsx2, texture high, in vive settings all reprojection off. Race start with 20 ai getting 65-70 FPS then settling to around 80-90.

Super smooth gameplay. Im not sure what is the best bang for buck tweek from here to get a little more detail. its pretty low res in VR anyway so smooth is good!

Schadows
17-02-2017, 09:37
SS can be set for project cars only as described in the Patch 11.2 release notes (http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?49318-Project-CARS-PC-Patch-11-2-Release-notes&p=1313971&viewfull=1#post1313971).
You can also set it generally for all vive applications (dashboard included), either by modifying the Vive config files like Tiago described above, or as I recommend, by using OpenVR Advanced Settings (https://github.com/matzman666/OpenVR-AdvancedSettings) which lets you modify this value (and a lot more) directly from the SteamVR interface (it still requires a Vive reboot though).
Just be careful not to change SS value in both, Steam and Project CARS, otherwise those values will might add (or multiply in this case) onto each other.

FXAA and SMAA aren't available in PCARS while using VR (as peer the screenshot of my settings in my sign). If MSAA is available, it should be another possible value where you selected DS2X.

Your settings seems about right.
Shadows & Detailed grass are quite heavy on the system, so I usually keep Shadows to low and I completely disable the detailed grass.
One thing you might want to consider is also to remove the crowds in the grandstands which adds a lot a drawcalls. To do that you can set to "Yes" the "Hide Crowds" in the "Virtual Reality" menu.

Just one reminder, the resolution settings in VR is only used for the mirrored image displayed on the TV / monitor. The image is always rendered in native resolution in the helmet.
You might want to disable that mirrored image with the -vrnomirror launch option, but you might want to be careful with that as it is not necessarily a good thing for performance as shown with my own tests (http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?47083-HTC-Vive-Discussion&p=1292147&viewfull=1#post1292147).

PS : I don't know how you can bear sub 90fps without reprojection. It gives me headaches.

RomKnight
17-02-2017, 12:47
I think MSAA was before DS2X wasn't it?

I'm curious though, is it better to use more SS with lower AA or no SS and DS2X,a.e.? Anyone tried?

Schadows
17-02-2017, 13:12
In standard (non VR) mode, yes, MSAA x2+ was before downsampling options. But there aren't (IIRC) in VR mode.

I compared (http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?47083-HTC-Vive-Discussion&p=1292896&viewfull=1#post1292896) SS at 2.0 (through pcars config file modification) to DS2x (in game settings) but, for me, DS2X was way better (despite a little more blurry image). SS seems to lack some kind of filtering like DS2x or even nVidia DSR have.
Obviously, with my setup, it was impossible to run with SS at 1.5 and DS2x at the same time.

RomKnight
17-02-2017, 18:26
DS and SS both end doing the same thing. render at higher level so I don't see the point of running both at the same time... maybe

Schadows
17-02-2017, 18:36
They do the same thing but DS end up filtering the result, giving a smoother image (but people might prefer a crisper image despite the remaining aliasing.
Using both could let users aim for a DS2.5x for example.

RomKnight
17-02-2017, 19:36
I'm on the side of crisper/sharper image indeed.

Cuba
16-03-2017, 13:21
Using HTC Vive and just installed Sim Commander 4 (SC4) and can't get pCARS to work with it. I've looked around a bit for the fix, but all I could find were posts about OCULUS. I tried some of the recommendations to get the game to launch and recognize SC4:
1. (input "steam://launch/234630/othervr -silent" in the Parameters field)
2. Remove "steam://launch/234630 -silent" and launch pCARS through SteamVR
3. Launch pCARS and then Alt-Tab out to SC4 to start pCARS.

Assetto Corsa launched fine without issues, so I know SC4/SimVibe are working.
Thanks!

EDIT: Just found this post http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?48275-Steam-Shortcuts-for-VR-Mode I hope this is my fix!

MuddyPaws73
24-03-2017, 23:55
This is what I use:

steam://launch/234630/Vr to launch from the desktop after opening a generic SC4 Project Cars Setup.

You can also launch directly from SC4 by selecting Game: Project Cars (Steam) and have SteamVR running

No need to add anything to the Launch Options Field with either option, although I do use -skipcrowds.

Boanet
01-04-2017, 12:23
Just tried my Vive with MOMO on a 1080 and love it. I am curious about alignment with the momo in vr. I can't seem to feel 100% physically aligned in the vr environment. Has anyone experienced this and worked out a setup process?

brasstacks
08-04-2017, 22:54
does anyone have problems with the vive controllers in big picture mode? i cant reliably switch between steam, desktop, or any other mode without the pointer glitching in and out. I hear it has something to do with the wheel and pedals?

Schadows
09-04-2017, 00:01
I don't know if it is related, but I had lots of problems with the SteamVR dashboard while my pedals was plugged and set as "separated pedals" in the drivers. I had to set them as "combined" for it to work properly.

brasstacks
10-04-2017, 02:41
Resolution: 640x480
Windowed: Yes
Texture Res: High
Texture Filtering: 2x
Vsync: no
Anti-Aliasing: ds2m
Reflections: Low
Environment Map: Low
Car Detail: High
Track Detail: High
Shadow Detail: Off
Motion Blur: Off
Detailed Grass: No
Particle Level: Medium
Particle Density: Low

Graphics Card: MSI Gaming X 1070
Stock Core Clocks: 1987 MHz
Stock Mem Clocks: 8108 MHz
OC Core Clocks: 2100 Mhz
OC Mem Clocks: 8888 MHz

CPU: Intel i5 2500k @ 4.3 Ghz

Async reprojection: Yes
interleaved reprojection:No
Always on reprojection: Yes

Did some test with Super Sampling and an OC on my 1070 and here were my results.
Road America – GT3 - Clear – 31 Cars – Start in Middle. Started logging when light turned green and ran for 60 seconds which is between turn 5 and 6ish. I did 3 runs for each setting. Results were the averages of those 3 runs.

http://i.imgur.com/hIqUsJO.jpg

I then decided to test the AA performance (1 run each)
I changed the following from my original settings
Track Details: Med
Particle Levels: Off

http://i.imgur.com/1L8HZTy.jpg

Final Thoughts:
Honestly weather it was 30 frames or 45 frames it was all very smooth for me except for my DS4X run. The picture for SS:1.5 wasn't as clear as SS:2, but it was close enough, plus it's over a 10 fps difference. For aliasing, DS2X might give 5 or so more frames over DS2M, but the aliasing was much worse and was distracting for me.
Going forward Im going with SS 1.5, DS2M, and an overclock - Avg: 43.383 - Min: 36 - Max: 52
. YMMV

Schadows
10-04-2017, 06:39
Personally I can't play seriously if framerate keep doing under 45fps (reprojection), the stuttering is way too heavy each time I turn the head.

Also if you need the real framerate for your test (and see how much leeway your system has), you need to disable reprojection.

brasstacks
10-04-2017, 15:34
So you play with all reprojection options off like this? Also what SS do you run? I saw your visual settings from you signature and what fps do you get?

Async reprojection: No
interleaved reprojection:No
Always on reprojection: No

I've only played with these settings 60 seconds at a time (i just got the vive last week) so we will see how these settings work out for me in the long run, but from my initial testing Anything above 30fps was okay for me. No stuttering in my eyes.

brasstacks
10-04-2017, 15:50
Just tried my Vive with MOMO on a 1080 and love it. I am curious about alignment with the momo in vr. I can't seem to feel 100% physically aligned in the vr environment. Has anyone experienced this and worked out a setup process?

Map a button to center vr headset. I close my eyes, find what I feel is centered, then press the button.