PDA

View Full Version : 4k compared to VR



NigsNuts
13-05-2016, 17:28
Has anyone with a 4k monitor (3840x2160) bagged themselves a Rift or Vive yet?
Is VR a step down graphically???

beetes_juice
13-05-2016, 17:33
While I don't have either (rift on the way in a week :D) graphics have to be stepped down for VR to achieve 90 FPS.

That being said the overall experience/immersion with VR outweighs the negative (lower resolution/graphics quality).

*This is my take from searching the web and from the Oculus thread here. I do have resolution fears but will find out first hand in a short time. Sure others with first hand experience will give you a more detailed response.

NigsNuts
13-05-2016, 17:46
Please post an update after you've tested it.
I look forward to hearing all about it :)

beetes_juice
13-05-2016, 18:11
In the meantime (and if you haven't found them yet) there is a great deal of info in the respective threads:

Oculus CV1: Here (http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?43740-Oculus-Rift-CV1-Discussion&highlight=CV1+discussion)
HTC Vive: Here (http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?47083-HTC-Vive-Discussion&highlight=HTC+VIVE+discussion)

Patrick Kulinski
13-05-2016, 18:22
I have the Vive running here, and yes, it is a noticable step downwards in terms of graphical fidelity. You're being rewarded with a feeling of being "in the game" really, as you can look left and right easily and also gain confidence since not only the mirrors are much more easily to see, but you can look out of the window. I don't know whether the Rift is able to achieve that, but I even can turn around while driving the kart and look where the driver behind is :D

By buying an HMD, you definitely don't improve graphical fideltiy, but basically the rest of the experience.

NigsNuts
13-05-2016, 19:36
I was hoping to hear there wouldn't be a big difference.....
I'm really tempted to take the plunge but I'll try to hold out from buying one until I've found somewhere with a demonstration model.
Hopefully most of the major retailers will have display models before too long.

Dozer K.A.O.
13-05-2016, 19:58
I fnally have been able to test VR for first time, with a DK2 a friend lend me.

I know that CV1 is better... but not much better... please take this statement as a personal opinion since i havent tried the CV1

Prepare to loose all the beauty of project cars..if you are a lover of the detail and precious graphics...you will be dissapointed with VR as it is now, but of course as somebody said, you will win in deep, 3d , and sense of velocity.. sorry, i can't feel the inmersion, i can't believe that i'm there if everything around me is a blurry graphic, better to say, everything that is not just in front of me.

with 4K you already know what you have, crispy detail and amazing graphics.. but flat as we always played.

i'm still trying to decide if this thing of VR is for me.. we gain things we loose things,,, the day we only win with VR ....it will rock.

Zeeflyboy
14-05-2016, 07:14
I have both a 4K 40" screen and rift for my PC.

It is, unfortunately, as the others have said a very big step down in graphical fidelity. The game still actually looks great in my opinion - it's just the low resolution/visible pixels that ruins it. The car models/textures/lighting etc etc all still look great, they are just somewhat pixelated (although actually inside the car it's not bad at all, it's more the view of the outside world that hits you with the resolution issue).

That said, while the game looks far better on my 4K monitor I only ever play in my rift. It's just a whole new way of gaming and much more fun for me. I must admit I do eagerly await CV2 and hope it comes with a serious bump in resolution and foveated rendering. My only big complaint about the CV1 is the lack of resolution... Everything else on the negatives list is relatively minor, the low res stops me from truly feeling like I'm there.

If you are unsure I would recommend waiting until you can try it out. It's well worth the sacrifice to me, but I can certainly see why others might not agree. There's also the possibility you will get motion sick from a game like PCars (my best friend was pretty resistant overall but the go-karts got him in the end... My neighbour felt sick instantly... My other half loved it but did feel queasy)... It's something that you can train yourself to get used to but it's worth pointing out that you may be affected.

That said - I guess anywhere that demos it probably won't have a wheel/pedals. Do bear in mind that the wheel adds a whole lot to the VR experience.

MrTulip
14-05-2016, 08:00
I've tested 40" 4K 16:9, 34" 21:9 (3440 x 1440) curved screen and Oculus Rift DK2. Of these I'd choose DK2 (or CV1).

With the very latest patch#11 pretty much all pCARS visual details in VR are on par with monitor setups. Only difference is the resolution. DS4X antialiasing makes the jaggies go away, but if you want clarity instead of all the plusses VR has (listed on other threads), you have to choose monitor.

Off those two screens 34" 21:9 screen has better form for racing games, and it was easier to set it up to resemble the experience I had in VR (curved form helps).

Also I was a bit disappointed at 40" 4K because 4K is where you start seeing rendering artifacts a bit too clearly. Meaning yes, you do get a crisp big screen, and yes, it is not the fault of 4K, but lots of transparencies dithering starts becoming visible in most games. To this add the fact that 4K rendering needs a lot of oomph under the bonnet, you may not even be able to run those games in 4K. GTX-780ti was not enough, so with nVidia I'd assume the line could be there in between GTX-970 and GTX-980 at least.

Of course VR has the same problem; you need a beefy computer. If I wasn't so impressed with the immersion I get with VR (for one and half years now with DK2), I would choose 34" 21:9 ratio (3440 x 1440) curved screen. That was Dell by the way, I currently have it as my monitor at work.

HoiHman
14-05-2016, 20:54
I fnally have been able to test VR for first time, with a DK2 a friend lend me.

I know that CV1 is better... but not much better...

I spotted this video today and to me the difference is pretty big.


https://youtu.be/5qxAk3QQQDQ

Zeeflyboy
15-05-2016, 09:13
I spotted this video today and to me the difference is pretty big.


https://youtu.be/5qxAk3QQQDQ

Not used a DK2 so can't directly compare, but I would say those pictures are slightly misleading as to the lack of pixelation on the CV1.

I certainly see a more obviously pixelated image than the CV1 pictures in that video suggest... But certainly not as bad as the DK2 pictures.

OzzyNeil
16-05-2016, 09:12
The trick to using VR is to imagine that you have a really bad pit crew who never clean your helmet visor or windscreen and all of a sudden you just forget about there incompetence and just race, works for me.

NigsNuts
17-05-2016, 02:40
Well I have been broken and placed an order for a Vive without testing one IRL first! I hope I won't regret it.....
(Especially if my girlfriend looks into how much it cost me) :0

Harmoniser
17-05-2016, 11:42
Ive had my vive since Friday, as someone who uses 4K, I think it's ends up being a choice between beauty and the ability to look around your car and feel like you are there. I think due to the lower resolution it means that the game does not neccessarily feel more immersive. Don't believe the videos you see online these are taken from the desktop mirror, the game does not look like this in the HMD.

The problem at the moment is resolution and 3D which is now a big factor of how VR works. The low resolution Is the same issue that made the 3D experience on consoles very poor. For me games that have demanding graphics should have 1080p is a minimum, unfortunately each eye in renders at a much lower resolution than this. This isn't a big problem for the tech demos on the vive, which are very simple and are all about what's going on in front of you, but for project cars your focus is down the road which can look like a pixel mess. You are really playing the game at something that looks like an old 3D PS3 game running at 720p. The way that VR works however is pretty impressive, and you really should try the tech demos on the vive. They will blow you away.

So I tried to fix this by ramming up anti-aliasing, and this really does improve the situation, it does start to look a bit more like something in 1080p. However becuase SLI does not work it's not really playable, FPS is very low.

But this is where I start to feel I'm doing something wrong. Becuase even with everything set on low (including AA), my performance is still pretty Rubbish. Does anybody know how I can see what the FPS is? It feels like 30 not 90. I have a Titan X.

Ideally I would like to run the game with full anti-aliasing, with graphics on high. Then the game becomes a viable alternative to a 4K experience. But right now one Titan X (i have two) does not seem enough.

So one tip to people who are buying a vive just to play project cars. I would wait for the next generation of VR headsets. Your better option is to go for a triple screen set up.

Zeeflyboy
17-05-2016, 22:35
I'm running on 980Ti boosting to around 1500mhz and 6700k @ 4.6ghz (I actually have 2 x 980Ti's but the game is totally broken for SLI at the moment and gives ghosting in VR unless SLI is turned off)... with that I have found the msaa is the killer for performance in my case.

As long as I don't go above DS2X I have found I can have most things such as car detail, reflections, environment map etc on high (I put track detail to low since it's only the road effect and I can't see any difference when racing), textures ultra, grass is on low, particles medium. Enhanced mirrors off.

That maintains a good FPS for me in most conditions. I do get the occasional blip if for example it's raining and there are lots of cars on track for example.

Best way to tell if the frame rate is struggling is to move your head side to side and watch for the cockpit movement stuttering. ATW means rotational head movements always seem smooth even when the framerate is chugging, but doesn't work with fore/aft/left/right/up/down displacement so you'll notice that movement becomes juddery... not sure there is currently any good way to record FPS on rift without decreasing performance.

Dozer K.A.O.
19-05-2016, 00:44
I spotted this video today and to me the difference is pretty big.


https://youtu.be/5qxAk3QQQDQ

I have to admit it, that video i watched a couple of days ago, made me go to oculus store and purchase the CV1,

But, beacuse i have still to wait until august for it, i hope i can try a CV1 before that and see if the change is good enough for not cancelling my order.

Anyways,even if i have the DK2 i still play sometimes in the monitor, i have a27 inch attached to an arm so i move it close to my wheel, to match the position i would have in the real cockpit, i have a track IR as well, and when i play after using the DK2 for some days, i love how smooth and detailed everything looks in the monitor.

So i understand what you all VR lovers say but i still need that kind of graphics quality once in a while, again, the day we have that quality in VR... wooo woo waaa!!

beetes_juice
19-05-2016, 13:22
Well got my CV1 yesterday.......all resolution, SDE fears are gone. Just going through the demo's I was in awe. Really something to take in. Never using a flat screen again :o

mbze430
19-05-2016, 16:33
I haven't received my Oculus yet (late June ship date), but I do monitor on a 4k 43". I run Pcars with a SLI 980TI with full max with MSAA. When I turn off vsync and let it fly at that setting I get about 110fps (according to RTSS), but normally I have it locked down at 60fps with RTSS. Apparently from recent research, SLI in VR is "broken". I built this PC specifically to enjoy Pcars on 4k and VR. Now I find out VR doesn't work with SLI.............plus the fact that even the new 1080 can't do MAX in VR, I am not sure what I am going to do! I just hope SMS fixes the SLI VR.

Ian Bell
20-05-2016, 03:52
I haven't received my Oculus yet (late June ship date), but I do monitor on a 4k 43". I run Pcars with a SLI 980TI with full max with MSAA. When I turn off vsync and let it fly at that setting I get about 110fps (according to RTSS), but normally I have it locked down at 60fps with RTSS. Apparently from recent research, SLI in VR is "broken". I built this PC specifically to enjoy Pcars on 4k and VR. Now I find out VR doesn't work with SLI.............plus the fact that even the new 1080 can't do MAX in VR, I am not sure what I am going to do! I just hope SMS fixes the SLI VR.

Has anyone 'fixed' SLI in VR yet? I'm not being facetious, I'd really like to know. From what I know right now, ghosting and blurring are all but impossible to remove.

Zeeflyboy
20-05-2016, 07:54
Has anyone 'fixed' SLI in VR yet? I'm not being facetious, I'd really like to know. From what I know right now, ghosting and blurring are all but impossible to remove.

I'm not entirely sure - I can say assetto corsa has the same issue as project cars whereby if I don't disable SLI in my nvidia control panel I get the crazy ghosting.

Elite dangerous seems to work fine without having to manually disable SLI, but I'm not sure whether or not it's utilising the extra power. Unfortunately I'm not aware of any decent monitoring program that works with rift that doesn't impact performance. All my other rift games (blaze rush, lucky's tale, vr time machine etc) also don't require SLI to be specifically disabled.

I assume that implementing nvidia's VR SLI is not straightforward? I know that unity and ue4 are working on building it into the engine, but I certainly haven't seen any confirmation that any game is currently using it.

Raymond de Vries
22-05-2016, 23:08
Has anyone 'fixed' SLI in VR yet? I'm not being facetious, I'd really like to know. From what I know right now, ghosting and blurring are all but impossible to remove.

SLI ON:
ETS2 (not optimal)
DCS World.
NoLimit2.
Elite Dangerous.

HeavyGroovez
26-05-2016, 13:25
For me there is no comparison at all. The lower fidelity simply doesn't bother me as the experience is so much more immersive and intense.

It still looks awesome on medium settings in the Rift.

I'm running a 970 and CV1. Had a DK2 before.

bjheng919
02-06-2016, 18:29
I actually have a 24-inch 4K dell display and a Rift CV1. The 4K display is really awesome when playing pcars, and the image in Rift, which you might have already known, does not look so sharp. It's because the lenses in Rift is zooming in the 2160*1200 resolution so that it can cover your wide view angle. If we just compare the image quality, 4K display is far better than Rift, but when I'm actually playing with Rift, I do not concentrate on the image quality so much, as the feel of reality is pretty good. But there's still one thing pulling me away from Rift. Playing with Rift is much more tiring than playing on a 24-inch display.

Raymond de Vries
10-06-2016, 08:43
Has anyone 'fixed' SLI in VR yet? I'm not being facetious, I'd really like to know. From what I know right now, ghosting and blurring are all but impossible to remove.

SLI ON:
ETS2 (not optimal)
DCS World.
NoLimit2.
Elite Dangerous.

I have to add one more : Iracing in VR with SLI on with no issues

mbze430
13-06-2016, 18:32
I have 43" 4k monitor to play Pcars with now. Also I have the Rift. Playseat/wheel setup etc. Because of the no SLI support in Rift I still prefer my 43" 4k. Dumbing the gfx down just.......you know the word.

jonston
15-06-2016, 02:31
Just setup my VIVE yesterday and i must say, i do prefer the clarity of my triple screens. however after 10 solid laps on the VIVE my lap times were very consistent and improving every lap because of better visibility and correct views(undistorted and angles of triple screens) of the track. exciting times ahead for sure.

but to be honest if i knew the pixelation was going to be this bad i would've waited for the next model. i will try to play with more settings tonight to see if i can get it any better.

My PC specs are

i7-6700k
16GB 2133mhz Ram
SSD
Asus GTX1080

https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t34.0-12/13435724_10156978464265007_1468229060_n.jpg?oh=d1eba63f2d1457be36e449a1eac61f0a&oe=5763E56A

jjcuff1
15-06-2016, 20:13
If I am correct the CV1 is 2 1080p monitors basically.
With the latest patch 11 you can run all the same graphics settings as a monitor correct? SO I can run ultra at 1080 like I would on my monitor?

I currently have a 21:9 and 5120x2160 DSR basically at Ultra no AA and looks awesome. 40-45FPS average and I am happy.
Can I not then run 1080P ultra and I know I can do 4x AA at 1080 np and it would be pretty similar graphics? 4k DSR looks lifellike for sure but maxed 1080p 4x looks good as well, the fineess/largeness is biggest hit to lifelike from 4k.
I can also test on my monitor today, at 2560x1080p.

Am I missing something or you guys are saying that 1080p even maxed looks like sh*t on CV1?