PDA

View Full Version : AI still knows what the weather will do



MilkyBarKid16
21-07-2016, 11:16
Sorry if this has been covered recently, but I've not followed the forum.

In the GT4 main race at Brands Hatch, I'm in 3rd after six laps and decided to change my tyres. The weather forecast was fog whilst I was in the pitlane, so I put on another set of slicks. I leave the pits in last, but I know I'll make up the positions when the AI pit. On the next lap, it starts raining and the forecast is fog with rain. None went in when it was dry, but they all go in to the pits when the rain starts. I then pit for wets, but exit in 17th.

It is remarkable timing that the AI cars decide to pit just as the rain comes, especially as none of them pitted previously. It can't be that they're all on the same strategy and it is just a coincidence that it rains when they pit.

I thought this was fixed in a patch, but clearly not.

Konan
21-07-2016, 11:51
This is a known issue and unlikely to be fixed in this game...
I tend to pit after the AI...they usually come in early and it is quite possible to do one lap in rainy conditions without losing too much time...
Winning doesn't happen every time but the places lost will be considerably less then when pitting twice...
This may be a disappointing solution for some but IRL these things happen too right?

gregc
21-07-2016, 12:33
If you pause the game on your in lap you should have a weather forecast, I haven't run races with pitstops for a while but I seem to remember using that and it being reasonably accurate.

Konan
21-07-2016, 12:36
If you pause the game on your in lap you should have a weather forecast, I haven't run races with pitstops for a while but I seem to remember using that and it being reasonably accurate.

It is...problem is the forecast can change after you have pitted...so i usually wait until the AI makes a move and act accordingly the next lap...

Schnizz58
21-07-2016, 13:34
It is...problem is the forecast can change after you have pitted...so i usually wait until the AI makes a move and act accordingly the next lap...
Even if it changes after you pit, if the forecast said that it's going to rain and it hasn't rained yet, as Cleveland says, "It gon rain." So you should still pit. However you're right that if the AI pit for no apparent reason you should always pit too.

To the OP, I don't see the problem. The AI can't see into the future any farther than you can. So when you put on another set of slicks (after 6 laps?) the forecast must have said that it was going to rain and you could have put on wets at that point instead of the slicks.

Also anytime the weather looks threatening (med-heavy cloud, fog, etc.) it's a good idea to keep a close eye on the forecast and to delay mandatory pit stops as long as possible in case it rains.

TerminatorGR
21-07-2016, 15:18
It is a fact that the AI knows the weather of the whole race, as someone who always plays full number of laps I know it first hand. In the specific race you mentioned, the AI waits until it starts raining. Just pit when the AI starts to pit.

I guess it is a byproduct of the preset weather in career. Thats why all of us have been saying again and again that it is imperative that PC2 has truly random weather.

Haiden
21-07-2016, 15:57
I've seen the AI pit before it actually starts raining. Rain was in the forecast, but the AI will sometimes pit just before the rain starts.

Schnizz58
21-07-2016, 15:59
I've seen the AI pit before it actually starts raining. Rain was in the forecast, but the AI will sometimes pit just before the rain starts.

I've done that too. On a track with a long lap (Nords for example) you're rolling the dice if the forecast says rain and you don't pit.

cxMilk
21-07-2016, 17:24
Did a race a couple of days ago that started in the rain and out of my own stupidity started on slicks because I forgot to swap tires before the race. But what really surprised me is that the AI also seemingly started on slicks because every single one of them pitted at the end of lap 1 in a 30 lap race. There's no accounting for why they would have pitted otherwise, at least that I can figure. If this is the case, this goes against everything I've ever suspected about the AI's superior meteorological skills.

Anyway, regarding the OP, I've noticed the AI typically doesn't start pitting in races with mandatory pit stops until one or two laps after the mandatory window opens. As Konan suggested I find it's always best, strategy-wise, to run at least an extra lap beyond what the AI can do before you pit. This will pretty much guarantee that if you do have to double pit because of changeable conditions, most of the AI will too. Keep in mind, the AI will always* pit as soon as the weather begins to change. What may seem like the AI having the inside line on the weather forecast is nothing more than rain starting on what's considered the most ideal lap for the AI's strategy. Dumb luck really.

*There always seems to be one straggler who doesn't play by anyone else's rules and will run whatever tires he pleases.

kutta
21-07-2016, 17:48
It depend on how fast the weather changes. If it changes too quickly (ie: x5, x10...) they all will jump in the pit at the same time, otherwise they wont. I almost only do le Mans races with x1 or x2 for the weather and 56 cars on the grid at 100%. When it start raining, AI will generally take from 1 to 3 turn to pit in (I even see some of them getting forced to drive slowly because they got trapped with Slick [Supposing that their slowness is caused by wearing slick] on wet track).

MilkyBarKid16
22-07-2016, 11:21
Even if it changes after you pit, if the forecast said that it's going to rain and it hasn't rained yet, as Cleveland says, "It gon rain." So you should still pit. However you're right that if the AI pit for no apparent reason you should always pit too.

To the OP, I don't see the problem. The AI can't see into the future any farther than you can. So when you put on another set of slicks (after 6 laps?) the forecast must have said that it was going to rain and you could have put on wets at that point instead of the slicks.

Also anytime the weather looks threatening (med-heavy cloud, fog, etc.) it's a good idea to keep a close eye on the forecast and to delay mandatory pit stops as long as possible in case it rains.

Actually when I pitted on lap 6, the forecast was for dry weather. My suspicions were raised when none of the AI cars pitted when I did.

Schnizz58
22-07-2016, 14:14
Then the problem is that the forecast is jacked up, not that the AI are prescient.

TerminatorGR
22-07-2016, 15:19
Then the problem is that the forecast is jacked up, not that the AI are prescient.The forecast is about the short term future of the race, it's fine and adds to the unpredictability. Again, the main problem is the preset weather (even if the AI didnt know the weather, we do when we replay the same race which is equally boring).

Schnizz58
22-07-2016, 15:31
Agreed. I can't believe they thought that was a good idea.

Dakpilot
22-07-2016, 16:18
Am sure they did not think it was a 'good idea'

just simply what was possible within a time frame and budget

Cheers Dakpilot

Schnizz58
22-07-2016, 16:19
I'll rephrase then. I can't believe they thought that was a good compromise.

Mahjik
22-07-2016, 17:17
While I don't know the insides of pCARS, I think it's likely a bigger problem to solve which is likely down to how the weather system is implemented. Since it's 1 hour chunks, to get weather to change during the short career races there is time/weather acceleration. This likely causes some issues with the forecasting.

Bealdor
22-07-2016, 20:44
It is a fact that the AI knows the weather of the whole race, as someone who always plays full number of laps I know it first hand. In the specific race you mentioned, the AI waits until it starts raining. Just pit when the AI starts to pit.

I guess it is a byproduct of the preset weather in career. Thats why all of us have been saying again and again that it is imperative that PC2 has truly random weather.

The AI doesn't know the weather of the whole race. It can just look ~3 mins in the future. When the AI knows it'll rain you will know too via weather forecast.

Schnizz58
22-07-2016, 20:51
The AI doesn't know the weather of the whole race. It can just look ~3 mins in the future. When the AI knows it'll rain you will know too via weather forecast.
That's what I've been saying but then:

Actually when I pitted on lap 6, the forecast was for dry weather. My suspicions were raised when none of the AI cars pitted when I did.
Maybe he's doing some sort of time acceleration, which I have no experience with. That would explain why he needed to pit on lap 6.

cxMilk
23-07-2016, 00:15
Actually when I pitted on lap 6, the forecast was for dry weather. My suspicions were raised when none of the AI cars pitted when I did.
Maybe he's doing some sort of time acceleration, which I have no experience with. That would explain why he needed to pit on lap 6.
Considering it's a GT4 main race, there's a mandatory tire stop at play. If the mandatory window opened on lap 6, the AI's behavior is completely normal based off of my own experiences with the AI in races that have mandatory pit stops. As I said before, the AI will typically wait a lap or two after the window opens before they begin making stops. Unfortunately, the OP doesn't list when the window opened up so we can only make assumptions here.

I can only go off what the OP states and my own experiences with GT main races, and from what I can tell, nothing out of the ordinary. If the mandatory window opened earlier than lap 6, then yea, there may definitely be an anomaly to account for.

Schnizz58
26-07-2016, 21:58
Considering it's a GT4 main race, there's a mandatory tire stop at play. If the mandatory window opened on lap 6, the AI's behavior is completely normal based off of my own experiences with the AI in races that have mandatory pit stops. As I said before, the AI will typically wait a lap or two after the window opens before they begin making stops. Unfortunately, the OP doesn't list when the window opened up so we can only make assumptions here.

I can only go off what the OP states and my own experiences with GT main races, and from what I can tell, nothing out of the ordinary. If the mandatory window opened earlier than lap 6, then yea, there may definitely be an anomaly to account for.
Agreed. The AI behavior seems pretty normal. What I was trying to figure out was why he needed to pit on lap 6 and why the forecast didn't warn him of impending rain which came a lap later.

cxMilk
27-07-2016, 07:44
Ah, I got ya now. Have no idea what the lap count is for the Brands Hatch main race, but guessing it's somewhere around 26-28 laps? If that's the case, I'm thinking he had his race set to about 50% length which would account for the window opening on lap 6. I've always done 100% length races in career so I don't know how differing percentages play with the weather acceleration but I'm wondering if that does condense the forecast time or not. I've done weather acceleration in QRWs, but never paid much attention to whether or not forecasting is affected as well.

DozUK
27-07-2016, 09:32
From memory on earlier threads, the AI forecast vision has been tweaked over the patches. I believe the AI can have reliable data to see between 3-6 minutes into the future. This was to emulate weather forecast data together with a 'look at the sky' approach. The player should also have the tools to do the same, ie forecast and sky. I have been involved in races were the AI has pitted before rain and then again when rain occurred.

The op did say that the very next lap after pitting it started to rain, I would put the original stop down to poor judgement of current weather which can happen to the best of us.

MilkyBarKid16
28-07-2016, 13:52
From memory on earlier threads, the AI forecast vision has been tweaked over the patches. I believe the AI can have reliable data to see between 3-6 minutes into the future. This was to emulate weather forecast data together with a 'look at the sky' approach. The player should also have the tools to do the same, ie forecast and sky. I have been involved in races were the AI has pitted before rain and then again when rain occurred.

The op did say that the very next lap after pitting it started to rain, I would put the original stop down to poor judgement of current weather which can happen to the best of us.

It was a 14 lap race and the window opened on lap 5. I waited another lap but no-one else went in. As I approached the pitbox, the forecast was dry. Not even half a lap had passed on my outlap when it started raining.

Even if the AI has the same weather info, they don't have to keep pausing to get up to date info!!!

Schnizz58
28-07-2016, 14:25
Even if the AI has the same weather info, they don't have to keep pausing to get up to date info!!!
The race engineer is supposed to update you on the weather but he doesn't.

Konan
28-07-2016, 14:31
The race engineer is supposed to update you on the weather but he doesn't.

Yep...i hope he's more talkative in Pcars2 TBH...:cool:

DozUK
28-07-2016, 14:38
It was a 14 lap race and the window opened on lap 5. I waited another lap but no-one else went in. As I approached the pitbox, the forecast was dry. Not even half a lap had passed on my outlap when it started raining.

Even if the AI has the same weather info, they don't have to keep pausing to get up to date info!!!

I think it's extremely bad luck if it rained on your outlap from the pits and the sky didn't give an inkling that rain was possible imminently

You're right, the AI don't have to keep pausing but that's because they're not real :) It's not an level playing field however, it's been done as good as I've seen it against any other racing game of this nature and it has been tweaked over time to try to get it best. At one point the AI could see up to 10 laps per race which was way too much of an advantage. As mentioned I have seen them pit then have to pit again due to weather changes and I've taken advantage of that.

If you want a level playing field in this area then maybe an online race is your best bet as all other drivers will have the same tools to judge their stops. You may find a whole load of other issues though which will make you go back to solo and accept the 3-6 minutes time window where the AI will always get it right.

Schnizz58
28-07-2016, 15:11
Yep...i hope he's more talkative in Pcars2 TBH...:cool:
For sure. To make matters worse, the problem is deeper than that because even Crew Chief doesn't give you weather updates. So the weather data doesn't properly appear in the UDP telemetry stream.