PDA

View Full Version : Project CARS Review - My opinion about the game!



Shadowoff
16-08-2016, 18:34
Hey guys,
in this thread I write my OWN personal opinion. My English barely sucks and now you are warned about it ;P Please don´t take this as flame!


Generell:

Project CARS is a really nice racing Sim and definetly one of the best on the market. It almost never gets boring as each of the many cars and classes is a new challenge and feels different. Also the big amount of settings for your setup is just impressive! I came from the F1 series from Codemasters where you were able to change something like 10 settings but as I played pCars for my first time I thought I would never understand all the different settings. Well... Now I do :) It was a long way but after many many tutorials and learning-by-doing I finally got it done. Also the number of tracks was just unbeliveable. Especially because the Nordschleife, my most loved track, was in game! The next thing I was impressed from been all the DLC´s you guys released. So many new cars came to the game and they all been great! I normally dont like to pay extra for DLC´s but THIS was something different. Another thing why I decided to buy pCars was the Day-Night and weather system. Again, I was just done as I never saw something like that in another racing Sim before.


Pros:

One Pro argument for pCars is definetly the graphics. The sun in the evening, the thunderstorm in the night or the fog in the morning. It always looked beautiful. As also already said above, been the large amount of cars and tracks the main argument for me to buy pCars. All cars feel different, all tracks are quite realistic and have some tricky parts which are not always easy to pass and each car needs to get driven different to keep on track. There is no car which feels like another.


Cons:

The largest Con argument is the handling. All cars feel different but they don´t feel like I would suspect a car to feel. I have a friend who is racing driver in a BMW M3 GT4 car and he said that the pCars handling isnt even close to realistic. You can not really feel the bumps, curbs, the G-Force or that you overdrive the car. It all feels almost the same. The sound is not the best in pCars. I can live with it but when I hear the R3E BMW Z4 GT3 sound for example and then pCars´ then I can clearly say that R3E´s is better (I´ve been at the 24h Nords 2015 and know how a Z4 GT3 sound :) ). One small thing (which I personally dont like) are the custom liveries. Its nice to see that the community gets it place in the game but there should be more real liveries. Also the not laserscaned tracks are a tiny thing I dont like. I know that SMS didnt had some money but I hope that they will do have some money for pCars2. The last con argument are all the bugs which are in pCars from Day 1 on. I can understand it when people start to work on a new game after they released and I dont say that they stopped working on pCars1 after the release but there are still some bugs from Day 1 which been thousands of times reported and still not fixed. For example the FFB bug or the never ending loading circle in the garage sometimes... Its just unnecessary.


This are the MAIN arguments and now you can say "Uh, this guy is flaming SMS. He has more Cons than Pros!". Well, the worth of the arguments are the most importanst thing. I bought pCars because I wanted to have a large number of cars, tracks and nice graphics so that I can have a lot of combinations on that I can spend a lot of time in different conditions. But now I came to a point of time where pCars got boring because there is no new content, I know everything about setuping and how to drive a car fast... I will probably leave pCars now to test some different games. I wanted to write this as my last post. I will definetly come back when pCars2 gets released, a new update comes out or the BMW M6 GT3 Mod gets released :) Until then, bye.

Konan
16-08-2016, 18:57
Not flaming at all...a well under built summary of what you think about the game...some will agree...some won't but that's not the point of this thread...
Sorry to see you go mate...see you on the Pcars2 forum...:cool:

Jason PLAdoh
16-08-2016, 21:17
Lets get the Basics right, It's a Game, Not a Sim, and it's not even the best Game out there. Sure, it looks pretty in some places, but as a game, it should be competing with the likes of forza, and GT.

I've Invested £3500+ to go sim racing, So I take this stuff seriously and personally, and expected more.

People will argue, well you get lot's of free stuff, sure, I get lots of free stuff through my letter box, it doesnt mean I want it.

I would rather they had got the game right, and then charged me for the content to use it, becouse then I would have invested in it. as it stands, I feel ripped of by it.

The Bugz are laffable, and sad, But then I remember that the game is british, and the attitude of "near enough is enough" is rife throughout. It's a british thing and I deal with it daily at work.

And who want's to race where you have to qualify last, and then coast of the start just to stand a bit of a chance of finishing a race.

I think I've finnished three races scince I started playing, Always wrecked out by some angry nerd.

People will argue, well you can find good racing if you join a clan, well you can, but then you're racing their races, in their catagory. I should be able to choose a racing class, do Practice, qually, then race, within the space of an hour in a public lobby. without getting wrecked on the startline.

I've Put Project Carnage to bed for a while, the last time I was on, I think there were about twelve people on the server, which says alot.

I've Gone over to Iracing, and it's an absolute Joy to race. certainly not easy, just joyfull, I still spin, But I know Ive caused it, Not just some random event, There's still Contact, But you know it's not intentional, two drivers just overcooked it. Theres always a Big smile on my face, even though I'm still a rookie. It's everything I want PCars2 to become, even as a game, But don't think it ever will.

I'm not flaming the game, I've not given up on it, it is what it is, and it's just not for me right now. I'm not seeing a return on my investment.

I'm not interested in fanboys/angry nerds flaming me for my opinion, I am entitled to it after all, but do welcome adult conversation, if you so wish :)

Peace & Lubs

J

Gasman888
17-08-2016, 00:28
I agree it's such a shame this game has soooo many bugs/problems because it could have been great and to your average gamer (no insults intended) who plays with a pad and even some wheel users it probably is great, but to someone who takes there sim racing semi seriously and races in leagues and prides themselves on consistency and fair play, this game has become sooooo frustrating that it has become unplayable. I've just read a thread that's been closed about the esports competitors complaining about different grip levels and conditions like its something new, I complained about this weeks ago and people thought I was mad and I pulled out of the competition because this game is just broken. I've come to the conclusion, rightly or wrongly that the developers know this and nothing can/or will be done about it, it just surprises me it's taken people so long to notice and the worse thing is it's getting worse and the bugs more and more prevalent the more time goes by. Just voicing my opinion and I think it's such a shame the handling was dumbed down from when it was first released as it felt great back then. Good luck for PCars 2 and I sincerely hope you resolve the problems that are in this game but I for one will give it a miss at release and wait to see/hear how it turns out first, I just hope AC and GTSport live up to expectation as the one thing I've learnt from my experience with PCars is nothing's perfect.

Gasman888
Aka Project_Sideways

Fanapryde
17-08-2016, 04:49
Well, here's a different opninion about handling/driving:

I was at a motor show in January (the Autosport show at the NEC Arena, here in the UK), primarily to have a go on a motion-platform setup that Slightly Mad Studios had taken, to promote the game. Near late afternoon, a few guys came over and one in particular was begging to be allowed a go on the sim. He was allowed a slot, late in the day. He duly returned, waited patiently and then hopped into the motion platform. The guys gave him the car and track he had wanted to try and let him go. I watched and cringed in horror at the driving - he was all over the place, over-reacting to inputs and generally having quite a messy drive. I mentioned to one of the devs "this is embarrassing, he can't drive for s***".

Quote Originally Posted by SMS chap
It's his first time on a rig like this and the first time he's tried the game. I don't think he uses home simulators at all
The guy hops off the sim, has quite a smile on his face and talks to the SMS guy for a minute before leaving.

Who was this person you wonder? Oh, just some guy called Lucas Luhr, who happened to come 2nd in the BMW Z4 GT3 at the 24 hours of Nürburgring in 2015.

The car and track combo he picked on the simulator? Yep, you guessed it, the Z4 GT3 and the Nordschleife. His words to the devs when he got off the simulator?

Quote Originally Posted by Lucas Luhr
You guys nailed it


I'll chime in with my opinion: if you can't feel what a car in the game is doing, if you can't feel bumps and curbs, then there is only one conclusion to make and that is that you got your setup completely wrong. Granted that it is difficult to do so because of the overload on FFB sliders, but once you hzve it right, it is RIGHT. Obviously G-forces will not be present as in RL unless you have a full motion rig, and even then it is not the same.

@Shadowoff you have a point where it comes to sounds, I'll give you that.

All the bugs...?
I use pCars only in SP, roughly 800 hrs on PS4 and 700 on PC.
On PS4 I encountered some bugs in the early days, but they got fixed pretty fast.
On PC I had NONE.

Getting wrecked by others in MP!.. I really don't see why the game has to be blamed for that...
I raced MP a lot in GT series 5-6 and it took me almost a year to find a group of fast (always in the top 50-100 on the leaderboards) and clean guys. We raced every week in a private room and it was big fun too. But before that, it was mostly purely frustrating, no need to elaborate on this, I think we all know...

@Gasmann888 I don't want to spoil your expectations but if AC on PS4 is not hugely improved over the PC version (which I sincerely doubt), you will be in for a big surprise. I had more bugs and troubles in 250 hrs than in over 1500 in pCars.
And really...do you expect GTSport to be a sim ?

I have pCars, AC and R3E. None of them is perfect, each of them has its flaws and strong points and surely a combination of these three would result in the ultimate sim.
F1 drivers don't even consider their multi million dollar simulators as being correct or perfect, so what can you expect from a game at the prices they are sold at (R3E being free to play, additional content to be bought if wanted, AC at 20€ on sale and pCars LTD for 65€.
Absolutely peanuts compared to my 8000€ rig. I got more than I expected out of sim racing and I am sure there is plenty more to come when pCars2 arrives.

Markus Ott
17-08-2016, 10:07
I think the OP pretty much nailed it.
Missing feel over bumps and curbs or the TC working is also what Daniel Abt said when he tried pCARS out.
I hope they nail that for pCARS2, make the FFB and driving feeling more crisp.

Funny someone mentioned the "near enough is enough" attitude, as this is also what nails the complete game.
Alsmost anything feels like it was stopped being developed 95% finished, or the devs being ok with missing basic features.

Someone mentioned you can't blame the game for the crash kids in MP.
Yes you can. pCARS got the audience SMS wanted to get into it and they got warned early in development that MP will be full of crashes if they don't think about some safety system.
They opted against it, MP became what it is.
Funny enough the AI of this game reflects that behaviour, can't really say SMS cares about realism and fairness in that department.


That's why I hope pCARS2 gets things right, but there are also indications SMS doesn't care much about the sim aspect, or is even playing against it.

Bealdor
17-08-2016, 10:20
Funny enough the AI of this game reflects that behaviour, can't really say SMS cares about realism and fairness in that department.

Treat them with the same respect like you'd do with a human opponent and racing against the AI will feel more realistic than in any other racing game out there.

Markus Ott
17-08-2016, 10:25
Treat them with the same respect like you'd do with a human opponent and racing against the AI will feel more realistic than in any other racing game out there.

errr... no.

Sankyo
17-08-2016, 10:26
That's why I hope pCARS2 gets things right, but there are also indications SMS doesn't care much about the sim aspect, or is even playing against it.
Bad form to finish with such a tendentious accusation without any facts to back it up. The devs have indicated time and again from the very start of WMD that they aim for realism, and even caused a generic shift in race sims of how tyre grip loss is modeled, yet you post a vague accusation that SMS is deliberately moving away from realism. At least have the decency to explicitly name what you're talking about, and there can be a discussion.

Markus Ott
17-08-2016, 11:02
At least have the decency to explicitly name what you're talking about, and there can be a discussion.

Fine.
No multiple setups that can be saved for a track.
AI behaving like in a crash derby, wildly moving and being more off track in a pack than fighting it out cleanly. Can't be done? Have a look at Raceroom.
No intentions to separate clean sim racers from average crash kids by an automated system.
Crappy replay systems with choppy moving cars.
Choppy moving cars as a general problem as it is too easy to drive cars the wrong way and getting away with it. pCARS isn't far off tbh, but the problem is there.
No indications to push the sim aspect with anything new or fresh.
You can't change the search criteria in the server browser. Together with missing multiple setups and the replay systems it indiates that SMS doesn't try to push the limits for the PC versions, but rather develops around the limitations of consoles.
ESL partnership with some strange 1on1 stuff. Maybe eSport, definitely not sim racing.

I always defended pCARS' way of giving more reliability into the car and more grip. This is not the problem at all. I complain about the sim aspect, not the realism.
The last thing maybe subjective, but I very well know Ian Bell's post where he wrote about a "100% no compromise sim" before WMD was even launched to the public.
But what I've seen throughout the development and the final product makes it THE 100% compromise sim out of all of them out there. Compromise to maximize sale numbers and compromises that hold the PC version low on the limitations of consoles.

Edit1:
I followed the 24h Spa in iRacing a few days ago.
I don't want to discuss about realism of the physics, but iRacing definetly got things right when it comes to sim racing.
Partnering up with real series.
Professional commentated streams.
The way the cars move around the track, how fluid it all looks, is unrivaled. Even tho their graphics is far behind pCARS, on a stream it looks way better.
Their multiplayer system makes sure there is good and fair racing (tho I hate to say that as their safety rating system is frustrating).
Yes, their user numbers are no match for pCARS, but the point is that at least pCARS2 can have all that, too. If SMS wants to put effort in it.
Seeing the potential unused is what makes me mad about pCARS, that's why I hope pCARS2 nails all that.

Edit2:
To be fair the announced features for pCARS2 sound awesome. I just hope their CO-OP CAREER ideas will also apply to the multiplayer and their PRO ESPORT RACING stuff is more than a statistics page that doesn't do anyhting else than being numbers.

Sankyo
17-08-2016, 12:10
Fine.
No multiple setups that can be saved for a track.
AI behaving like in a crash derby, wildly moving and being more off track in a pack than fighting it out cleanly. Can't be done? Have a look at Raceroom.
No intentions to separate clean sim racers from average crash kids by an automated system.
Crappy replay systems with choppy moving cars.
Choppy moving cars as a general problem as it is too easy to drive cars the wrong way and getting away with it. pCARS isn't far off tbh, but the problem is there.
So you're stating that SMS did not care about these things, or even deliberately made it such to make the game worse than it could be? Please prove that.


No indications to push the sim aspect with anything new or fresh.
That's again a very vague statement.


You can't change the search criteria in the server browser. Together with missing multiple setups and the replay systems it indiates that SMS doesn't try to push the limits for the PC versions, but rather develops around the limitations of consoles.
How does trying to keep the platform uniform for ease of development because of limited dev resources equal to SMS deliberately not making a full sim? There's more to game development than making everything you want.


ESL partnership with some strange 1on1 stuff. Maybe eSport, definitely not sim racing.
Depending on your personal definition of sim racing, of course.


I always defended pCARS' way of giving more reliability into the car and more grip. This is not the problem at all. I complain about the sim aspect, not the realism.
The last thing maybe subjective, but I very well know Ian Bell's post where he wrote about a "100% no compromise sim" before WMD was even launched to the public.
But what I've seen throughout the development and the final product makes it THE 100% compromise sim out of all of them out there. Compromise to maximize sale numbers and compromises that hold the PC version low on the limitations of consoles.
The 'compromise to maximum sale numbers' is another unfounded accusation, but for the rest the only issue I see is that SMS has been open about the compromises they had to make during development, while other devs have not. Concluding then that SMS is the only developer making compromises is quite a mistake.



Edit1:
I followed the 24h Spa in iRacing a few days ago.
I don't want to discuss about realism of the physics, but iRacing definetly got things right when it comes to sim racing.
Partnering up with real series.
Professional commentated streams.
The way the cars move around the track, how fluid it all looks, is unrivaled. Even tho their graphics is far behind pCARS, on a stream it looks way better.
Their multiplayer system makes sure there is good and fair racing (tho I hate to say that as their safety rating system is frustrating).
Yes, their user numbers are no match for pCARS, but the point is that at least pCARS2 can have all that, too. If SMS wants to put effort in it.
Seeing the potential unused is what makes me mad about pCARS, that's why I hope pCARS2 nails all that.

Allow pCARS the 8 years of continuous development that iRacing has had until now, and then make the proper comparison. And factor in the offline component that iRacing does not have and hence has not needed to spend dev time on.
Of course those aspects you mention are valid, but it's hardly a fair comparison. Ian has fully acknowledged that, for example, replays in pCARS need to be improved. What was delivered in pC1 was simply what was possible given the available resources and time frame.

Jescott71
17-08-2016, 12:17
If I may weigh in on this.

As someone who plays games exclusively on console, who has never owned a gaming PC, nor has any intention on owning a gaming PC any time soon, this game is a complete breath of fresh air from the way racing games on consoles have been for the past 5 or 10 years. Project CARS is the best racing game I have played yet, the variety, the depth of detail, all of it blows my mind, I can't wait to finally play Assetto Corsa in 10 days time to compare them. I honestly wasn't sure we'd ever get one truly amazing sim-focused racing game on console again, and we're (hopefully) about to get two. This is a golden age of racing games for me, so to say PCARS has under-delivered for me personally could not be further from the truth. I hope I can get as much enjoyment out of AC too, I'm confident I will because why think negative when you can think positive?

I'm sure if I played on PC and had games like iRacing running on a computer that costs thousands I might think differently, but I haven't and I won't, so I don't. People may say this game has been compromised for console players and it probably has, a PS4 just cannot keep up with a top-spec PC. But for some of us, there is a chance this could end up being the best console racing game of all time, and that's why I still love this game. I hope we get better (why settle for A when you can get A+?) but from the enjoyment I've gotten, and still get, from this game, I can live with it if we don't.

Gasman888
17-08-2016, 12:47
We all have, and are entitled to have our own opinions but just to clarify my thoughts on a few points mentioned,
The bugs are definitely worse and more noticeable in online multiplayer although they do also exist in single player but you can still compete with the slow AI,(performance and grip level bugs)which are now more common than ever, added to the sound bugs, clipping bugs, wheel rotation bugs etc this game is unplayable unless your prepared to put up with the frustration of these, and even if you win you don't know if others have buggy cars or not so it's impossible to have a level playing field.
Prohibited tune has never worked with wildly varying performance levels, different tyre compounds fitted and different fuel loads in a single make race to this day,
The game freezes at the end of every race(virtually) so a new room is required to do more than one race,
I'm 100% sure the game handling characteristics have been dumbed down to accommodate pad users after the complaints from pad users on release that the game was unplayable and the people that wanted that promise of a 100% uncompromised sim have had to compromise quite substantially and I'm fairly convinced this tinkering has probably caused more problems than it resolved.(I don't blame SMS for doing this completely as the money/sales numbers is in the pad user market which is much greater than the wheel user market).why couldn't we have had a "simulation" and "controller" setting to accommodate this instead?
So to summise, as a single player game it works, just about if you ignore the game crashes, and I would love to hear if anyone was able to do a 24hr race and stream it without the game crashing as SMS suggest on their loading screens lol, but as a multiplayer game for leagues it just does not work with all the inequality issues this game has unfortunately, and I'll just add that I have been the most successful driver in my league for the duration of this game, so this is not sour grapes from me, it's just the way it is, and it really is a shame and now other titles are arriving to provide a choice to the users I think PCars will lose out on quite a large number of players.

Lastly, I have to agree with Bealdor on the AI subject, treat them with respect and keep it clean and so will they, drive like a nutter and push your way through and so will they, I think the AI is great but I've completed most of that and can't be bothered to do the endurance races and have the game crash half way through.

Shadowoff
17-08-2016, 12:47
Well, here's a different opninion about handling/driving:


I'll chime in with my opinion: if you can't feel what a car in the game is doing, if you can't feel bumps and curbs, then there is only one conclusion to make and that is that you got your setup completely wrong. Granted that it is difficult to do so because of the overload on FFB sliders, but once you hzve it right, it is RIGHT. Obviously G-forces will not be present as in RL unless you have a full motion rig, and even then it is not the same.

@Shadowoff you have a point where it comes to sounds, I'll give you that.

All the bugs...?
I use pCars only in SP, roughly 800 hrs on PS4 and 700 on PC.
On PS4 I encountered some bugs in the early days, but they got fixed pretty fast.
On PC I had NONE.

Getting wrecked by others in MP!.. I really don't see why the game has to be blamed for that...
I raced MP a lot in GT series 5-6 and it took me almost a year to find a group of fast (always in the top 50-100 on the leaderboards) and clean guys. We raced every week in a private room and it was big fun too. But before that, it was mostly purely frustrating, no need to elaborate on this, I think we all know...

@Gasmann888 I don't want to spoil your expectations but if AC on PS4 is not hugely improved over the PC version (which I sincerely doubt), you will be in for a big surprise. I had more bugs and troubles in 250 hrs than in over 1500 in pCars.
And really...do you expect GTSport to be a sim ?

I have pCars, AC and R3E. None of them is perfect, each of them has its flaws and strong points and surely a combination of these three would result in the ultimate sim.
F1 drivers don't even consider their multi million dollar simulators as being correct or perfect, so what can you expect from a game at the prices they are sold at (R3E being free to play, additional content to be bought if wanted, AC at 20€ on sale and pCars LTD for 65€.
Absolutely peanuts compared to my 8000€ rig. I got more than I expected out of sim racing and I am sure there is plenty more to come when pCars2 arrives.

Mate, I know how to setup a car otherwise I wouldnt be on P1 of the leaderboard in the Z4 around combined Nürburgring... Maybe you should play some more online as there are sadly the main bugs. People timing out for no reason, getting kicked by the host while the host is did nothing and so on. As I already said in my first post, the FFB bug is still present, same as the loading circle in the garage which never ends or that in TT the fuel is set to the amount you choose in the setup and not the 5 litres like it stays in the corner right of your HUD. Its also nice that you have 800 hours on PS4 and 700 hours on PC but if you just always drive in Singleplayer and nothing else you probably wont find some bugs as SP is the cleanest mode of pCars with the most less bugs. Back to the handling. I can just say that my friend told me that the BMW M3 GT4 feels unrealistic as he is driving one in RL. I never said that ALL cars must feel now bad aswell.

Again, Im not flaming the game, Im just discussing and trying to stabilise my opinion with some facts. This will also be my last post (finally 500 posts =3) and I wont gonna answer to some future ones

Peace out!

crowtrobot
17-08-2016, 13:40
Funny someone mentioned the "near enough is enough" attitude, as this is also what nails the complete game.
Alsmost anything feels like it was stopped being developed 95% finished, or the devs being ok with missing basic features.
Completely agree.

I think pCARS has nailed the engineering aspect - the tire model, the weather, the graphics, and even the AI for the most part are all very good technical achievements, but games are more than engineering problems - they need polish and finishing, and that's where I think it failed. There were several points during WMD where I remember SMS responding to criticisms with "it's good enough, moving on"...which to some extent is necessary, nothing's ever perfect, but for me, it feels like they stopped at 80-90%, when they really needed to push on a little further.

For the way I played the game (mostly Career, one with open-wheel, and one with Multi-Class), that missing polish is what caused my interest to wane after less than a year. It is frustrating and unrewarding to play the Career mode when:

AI ramming the player car in higher tier open wheelers, a discipline where contact should be avoided at all costs
the AI don't carry enough fuel for longer races and litter the track when they run out of gas
individual AI don't race consistently enough to create any stakes in a particular season
As a group, the AI are too consistent, making longer endurance races frustrating
Simulating sessions still bugged after years in WMD and a year after release
Replays are stuttery, making them much less pleasant to re-watch
Without mods, the Career gives the same events, the same schedule and the same weather year after year. How did a game that's supposed to encourage multiple years in the same discipline (as indicated by the Achievements) not solve this problem?


Fixes, or additional development time to iterate and hone all of the above would have added considerably to the longevity for me. The apparent abandonment by the devs doesn't help any, either. During WMD, the developments were enough to keep me involved and maintain interest, and post-WMD the DLC and seeing what bugs would be fixed by the patches accomplished the same thing, but as it stands now though, there's too many rough edges to justify continued involvement.

deedub777
17-08-2016, 14:00
Project Cars may be 'just a game' to some and 'the best SIM they've ever tried' to others however, SMS are a company that employs people, they have a profit and loss account, jobs to consider.
Every business balances three important aspects of a product launch: Quality, Cost, Delivery (QCD). Imagine these three things as points of a triangle and if one is given more focus, then the other two suffer. It's a compromise.

It would not be a better world if SMS delivered a perfect PCars1 and then liquidated because of overspend. (Q takes priority)
It would not be a better world if SMS delivered PCars1 early with poor quality. (D takes priority)
and so on...

Producing products is a business and getting the QCD balance right is insanely difficult. I think they did a pretty fair job.

PS: I have no ties to SMS, just my objective view. I work in software development, it's a tricky business, and I love Motor Racing and Racing games/Sims.

rosko
17-08-2016, 16:44
I will say one thing, if you can't feel road & kerb then its because you most definitely have the FFB setup that way.

Haiden
17-08-2016, 21:30
I will say one thing, if you can't feel road & kerb then its because you most definitely have the FFB setup that way.

Agreed. Road and kerb feel aren't even remotely a problem. If you can't feel them, you really need to check your settings. That said, IIRC, even the default settings had kerb feel.

Silraed
17-08-2016, 23:45
That said, IIRC, even the default settings had kerb feel.

It varies between cars. I do agree though.

Riccardo De Rosa
18-08-2016, 06:17
nothing's ever perfect, but for me, it feels like they stopped at 80-90%,

I believe that developers have found themselves faced with a crossroads.
1) fix and clean up the code (with its limitations: replays, multiple setup, etc. etc.).
2) expand and modify the base engine to make possible changes and improvements.

I consider pcars2 like a big update. the suffix 1 or 2 does not exist for me. for me there is only one project: Project CARS.

To do this need resources. so here's the name Project Cars 2.

I have complete confidence in the SMS and their work done so far, it's great.

hkraft300
18-08-2016, 09:00
Some say that pcars is not a SIM because of public MP crashfests,
And that the AI can't drive clean even if it might be your fault that you crashed...
All we know is: the Stig helped develop this game.

eiwhatsup
18-08-2016, 13:08
Treat them with the same respect like you'd do with a human opponent and racing against the AI will feel more realistic than in any other racing game out there.bullshit. Try that in formula B class and then come back to say the same

Silraed
18-08-2016, 13:17
bullshit. Try that in formula B class and then come back to say the same

I raced the Formula B AI just this afternoon around Imola, great 33 lap race.

Sankyo
18-08-2016, 13:27
bullshit.
We don't need that kind of language when discussing matters here.

Konan
18-08-2016, 14:07
I raced the Formula B AI just this afternoon around Imola, great 33 lap race.

Yep...i'm in that tier in career mode ...no problems here...
Oops...strike that...i WAS in that tier until i deleted everything to test something for someone...:rolleyes: so i HAD no problems...lol

Cuba
18-08-2016, 14:41
I will say one thing, if you can't feel road & kerb then its because you most definitely have the FFB setup that way.

Agreed! Jack Spade Tweaker Files and a little testing/adjustments will fix your FFB issues.

hkraft300
18-08-2016, 14:50
Some say that the AI is so real he visits your parents for Sunday dinner after kicking your arse at the race.
And that the tyre model is the most advanced and accurate available to SIM racers on any platform...
All we know is, the Stig should stick to driving as he's no good at managing a race team.

bmanic
19-08-2016, 11:57
The AI in pCars is miles better than in for instance AC, where the AI still completely grinds to a halt if you slow down at the side of a track (yes, I just tried it last week with the latest update).. so in this regard, the AI "doing whatever it takes to overtake a slow car" is a much better solution.

However, this also leads to very aggressive and "blind" behavior where the AI will crash into you when it's at your side and thinks it has the right of way (even if it's wrong). There's no compromise. As far as I recall this was a known issue and is one of the features that is being improved for pCars 2. The AI code being expanded so that it's more aware of the player at their side.

Anyhow, the general rule of "treat them as human opponents" and you'll usually have a pretty good race. Shame they are so slow around some tracks, even at 100% difficulty.

m355y
20-08-2016, 08:40
Looking back on PCars I think I was initially delighted - the variety of cars, the experience of (sort of) multiclass races, the feeling of depth to everything, the AI that seemed a bit more human than most games and the promise of more to come. I think the ambition to really make something different to your usual console racer shone through from the ability to pick time of day, day/night transitions, degrees of tyre wear, switch between yourself and AI drivers to replicate the feel of a long endurance race, the race engineer speaking to you through the controller, all stuff I'd never seen before in a racer having been stuck on consoles all my gaming life. Brilliant.

Problems were - there was hundreds of bugs and issues that kind of made it very difficult to enjoy these features. And a lot of the features that were promised simply never came. I did get the feeling that SMS either ran out of resources, or ran out of interest. Most of the additions became increasingly half-baked, a new car like a Formula Renault 3.5 or V8 Supercars but with a bunch of cartoon liveries, and in the case of the Indycars no ovals or street courses, and no real liveries. And custom championships never came, and lots of the paid DLC was really bugged and pretty much broken. It was a shame. It never progressed past its initial promise for me and left a slightly bitter taste.

There is a lot of entertainment to be had though, it's not a bad game by any means, but if it was really designed for 'real racing fans' then it does fall really short. I like the ambition, though. Hopefully they'll do a better job with the sequel.

John Hargreaves
20-08-2016, 18:09
It's pretty cool that what started out as a low budget indie game is being judged as a AAA title. As a Brit, I think we got pretty close first time, maybe not 100%, but anyone who had even the smallest involvement is very proud of what came out in the end. From what SMS are doing to pCars2 with a more healthy budget, there will be more good stuff next time out.
I'm still playing every week and being able to drive using some of the cartoon liveries I designed myself that are officially in the game gives it an extra thrill.

OK, maybe not perfect, but pretty darn good. That's my review.

rosko
20-08-2016, 18:36
I actually think the liveries are really good, especially in comparison to AC which are really awful imo.

Photonmonkey
20-08-2016, 19:07
Well I have been playing this sim/game since release and granted I haven't even ventured online but I have to say for an off line experience I have never been so addicted, after 12 months and more I still struggle to turn this damn game off every evening and I still haven't even touched career mode! I cannot say that about any other game let alone a racing title.

I am awaiting Assetto Corsa to release on PS4 with interest but it will have to be pretty special to pull me away from PCARS that's for sure.

John Hargreaves
20-08-2016, 21:39
Yeah, I've definitely had my money's worth.:cool:

Photonmonkey
20-08-2016, 22:08
Not even about money's worth this game is still killing me after over 12 months of play, I have never experienced that in over 30 years of gaming, yes I am that old! I have seen so many posts about physics this physics that and I can say I have never raced a car in my life but PCARS has given me what I feel is the best experience yet on console!

All I can say is thank you Ian and team for bringing the full monty to consoles, you were the first and clearly (Assetto corsa) not the last. STOP PRESS I have spent 12 months fecking about with tv settings and only just realised that my tv (mounted on a wall) was at the wrong angle (killing my blacks) so I am now enjoying PCARS all over again: :)

Each to there own but I love PCARS for what it is, not perfect but better than the rest on console at least.. Peace and enjoy :)

Photonmonkey
20-08-2016, 22:16
Just to cluck in another 10 cents worth..... Pun intended, people judging physics should also remember this is all through a bit of vibrating plastic in your hands/feet! Let's keep it real!

Konan
20-08-2016, 22:16
...my thoughts exactly...granted, Pcars might have its flaws but it certainly set the standard for console games and even revolutionised it...imho

Photonmonkey
20-08-2016, 23:07
Exactly, on console PCARS kicks ass IMHO and has paved the way for other sim orientated racers. That's why I tip my 'virtual' hat in the general direction of Ian and co as they have made my day, week and year no matter what the nay Sayers blob on about, I am sure I will love Assetto Corsa but PCARS is where my heart is :) ........... Consoles aren't just for casual gamers.....fact!

Photonmonkey
20-08-2016, 23:13
I swear there are some people out there that think"the graphics are just too good so you clearly haven't given enough CPU to the physics!" Vector graphics anyone???

hkraft300
21-08-2016, 06:11
Some say that project cars is equivalent to a psychoactive chemicals substance, and on a buggy day its as bad as a meth come down after a dirty music festival.
All we know is, Ian Bell has a bigger budget for pcars2.

Rambo_Commando
21-08-2016, 07:23
I love racing games, especially F1 games. Since I got Pcars I find myself no longer exited about other racing games coming out. I bought F1 2016 on release and did a couple laps of TT. Needless to say I'm no longer playing it. This is supposed to be a great year for racing titles on console but I'm just so content with Pcars that I really don't care for any other game. I have a great library of racing games (Pcars, Dirt Rally and F1 2016) and Pcars is all I want to play.

Xraider
21-08-2016, 12:31
I love racing games, especially F1 games. Since I got Pcars I find myself no longer exited about other racing games coming out. I bought F1 2016 on release and did a couple laps of TT. Needless to say I'm no longer playing it. This is supposed to be a great year for racing titles on console but I'm just so content with Pcars that I really don't care for any other game. I have a great library of racing games (Pcars, Dirt Rally and F1 2016) and Pcars is all I want to play.

That's really interesting to hear. There's a lot of praise for F1 2016 online atm. I really don't want to adjust to a new game...kinda have a long pcar career planned.

bigal1000
21-08-2016, 13:45
Pcars is excellent AC not so much.

eiwhatsup
22-08-2016, 12:24
I still think PC2 should continue with racing circuit, and expand on the number of tracks available and fix all the problems of the first game, such as the nerdgasmically retarded AI, the bugged medium tyres, the very low pressures having no impact on temps, the inters, boxes, etc.

Just add more cars, double the tracks and fix all the bugs that made so many people abandon the game so soon. Why rallycross or racing on gravel?. Shouldn't be better to fix things first and then expand? Leave that for dirt rally and let be circuit racing again

Markus Ott
22-08-2016, 13:04
Quantity is easier to achieve than quality.
I also think that pCARS had so many problems and bugs, half the development time for pCARS2 must have been just fixing stuff. Hopefully.

Sankyo
22-08-2016, 13:14
I still think PC2 should continue with racing circuit, and expand on the number of tracks available and fix all the problems of the first game, such as the nerdgasmically retarded AI, the bugged medium tyres, the very low pressures having no impact on temps, the inters, boxes, etc.

Just add more cars, double the tracks and fix all the bugs that made so many people abandon the game so soon. Why rallycross or racing on gravel?. Shouldn't be better to fix things first and then expand? Leave that for dirt rally and let be circuit racing again
How about fixing all issues AND adding rallycross? Why should it be one or the other?

Markus Ott
22-08-2016, 13:16
How about fixing all issues AND adding rallycross? Why should it be one or the other?

SMS wanted too much for pCARS already. Their tiremodel wasn't finished, some cars were better than others, but road cars were said to be a bad drive.
They can add rallycross, but more diversity means higher risk as they need to develop new tires for offroad modes as well on top of what wasn't finished.

Konan
22-08-2016, 13:22
I still think PC2 should continue with racing circuit, and expand on the number of tracks available and fix all the problems of the first game, such as the nerdgasmically retarded AI, the bugged medium tyres, the very low pressures having no impact on temps, the inters, boxes, etc.

Just add more cars, double the tracks and fix all the bugs that made so many people abandon the game so soon. Why rallycross or racing on gravel?. Shouldn't be better to fix things first and then expand? Leave that for dirt rally and let be circuit racing again

Dirt rally concentrates on one (or two) disciplines...interesting for rally fans but for guys like me who like almost all disciplines it is very welcomed to be able to race on circuits as well as off-road when i feel like it...all that rapped up in one game...what could be better than that?

Sankyo
22-08-2016, 13:32
SMS wanted too much for pCARS already. Their tiremodel wasn't finished, some cars were better than others, but road cars were said to be a bad drive.
They can add rallycross, but more diversity means higher risk as they need to develop new tires for offroad modes as well on top of what wasn't finished.
pCARS1 was started from scratch, pCARS2 wasn't. Also budget considerations are different. This changes a lot of things. And personally I think that a bit of risk-taking and going further than the safe route is necessary to stay competitive. IMO taking on a new and exciting discipline is very good for the game. Also, IMO sim racers in general are very conservative people, and conservative game development is not going to get you many sales (I doubt ISI is earning much from all the sim racers still sticking to rF1).

So IMO while SMS should listen to the community (and they do), they should also make sure that they stay ahead of the game business-wise and hence explore new horizons.

Markus Ott
22-08-2016, 14:00
I would not say that bringing in Rallycross is a risk or moves them ahead of the game. There are already rallye games out there. Of course catching the rallye community with pCARS2 is a plus.
Nevertheless I think it's more like fully dynamic day/night cycles and weather changes where pCARS is ahead and therefore technical features and new ideas makes them number one. That's where they should put their focus on primarily.

Sankyo
22-08-2016, 14:13
Hold on, rally and rallycross are very different disciplines. Does the latest Dirt game have rallycross? Dirt 2 had it, but I thought that the latest incarnation went rally-only again?

Markus Ott
22-08-2016, 14:14
Afaik Dirt Rally has Rallycross

Konan
22-08-2016, 14:15
Afaik Dirt Rally has Rallycross

...indeed...

eiwhatsup
22-08-2016, 14:15
How about fixing all issues AND adding rallycross? Why should it be one or the other?Because we don't know whether all the serious problems are being fixed in pc2, and when we look at other franchises then the usual situation is that problems still persist in the next iterations of the game, because these issues are very difficult to fix due to them lying deep in the core engine.

Why should it be one or the other?. Well, better fixing what you left behind so broken/unfinished, and then continue to expand, I'd say. And still, racing on gravel in project cars..., so many concerns about this tbh. Project Cars should stay a circuit racing game imo. Just double the tracks, more cars, some tunning stuff if you wish to and of course fix the unbearable ammount of bugs we still suffer from pc1. Isn't this a lot more important than racing on gravel and being exposed to be bugged as well?

Sankyo
22-08-2016, 14:27
Because we don't know whether all the serious problems are being fixed in pc2, and when we look at other franchises then the usual situation is that problems still persist in the next iterations of the game, because these issues are very difficult to fix due to them lying deep in the core engine.

Why should it be one or the other?. Well, better fixing what you left behind so broken/unfinished, and then continue to expand, I'd say. And still, racing on gravel in project cars..., so many concerns about this tbh. Project Cars should stay a circuit racing game imo. Just double the tracks, more cars, some tunning stuff if you wish to and of course fix the unbearable ammount of bugs we still suffer from pc1. Isn't this a lot more important than racing on gravel and being exposed to be bugged as well?
Again you're implying that it can be only one or the other :) Especially when there's different people/teams working on different things, there's no reason why SMS wouldn't be able to do it all IMO.

Mad Al
22-08-2016, 14:33
Again you're implying that it can be only one or the other :) Especially when there's different people/teams working on different things, there's no reason why SMS wouldn't be able to do it all IMO.

Can't wait to see the jaws drop the first time this lot get to see the new tech in action ;)

eiwhatsup
22-08-2016, 14:40
Again you're implying that it can be only one or the other :) Especially when there's different people/teams working on different things, there's no reason why SMS wouldn't be able to do it all IMO.

Because we don't know whether all the serious problems are being fixed in pc2, and when we look at other franchises then the usual situation is that problems still persist in the next iterations of the game, because these issues are very difficult to fix due to them lying deep in the core engine.```

Konan
22-08-2016, 14:41
Can't wait to see the jaws drop the first time this lot get to see the new tech in action ;)

...grrrr....again...lol

Bealdor
22-08-2016, 14:42
...grrrr....again...lol

Relax mate. According to your avatar your jaw dropped long ago anyway... :p

Konan
22-08-2016, 15:38
...lol...

That's just it...if i drop anything more there will be nothing left...:cool:

OddTimer
22-08-2016, 15:50
pCARS1 was started from scratch, pCARS2 wasn't. Also budget considerations are different. This changes a lot of things. And personally I think that a bit of risk-taking and going further than the safe route is necessary to stay competitive. IMO taking on a new and exciting discipline is very good for the game. Also, IMO sim racers in general are very conservative people, and conservative game development is not going to get you many sales (I doubt ISI is earning much from all the sim racers still sticking to rF1).

So IMO while SMS should listen to the community (and they do), they should also make sure that they stay ahead of the game business-wise and hence explore new horizons.

I think both Pcars and AC (and probably other sims I haven't played) do a good job simulating the player's car and track, but they don't simulate disciplines well. I know this is very hard to do due to rules in different disciplines being very different. Look at Formula 1 and this year's game from Codemasters...there is so much into it, tires types and rules, safety car, virtual SC etc....it is impossible from SMS or Kunos to add all those features to their games. As a result the lack of immersion is a factor to be considered. Both PCars and AC feel like that, after the first 2 or 3 laps, the cars are pretty much on rails and nothing happens, unless the player gets involved with an accident with the car right in front or back of him/her.

I've been playing AC and PCars for a while and there's always been something lacking for me. Now I know it is the lack of racing simulation, not car driving sim or super hi-tech scanned tracks, but the racing itself.

Roger Prynne
22-08-2016, 15:50
Also, don't you think that they have learned from the mistakes and bugs in pCARS1? and then squish them in pCARS2.
I know for a fact that they have.
That's not saying that there will not be bugs in pCARS2, but what game this technical doesn't have bugs at first release?

rosko
22-08-2016, 16:27
I think the FFB & handling in dirt rally is pretty average, im interested to see what SMS do with it.

eracerhead
22-08-2016, 16:59
I hope it's OK if I say this, but adding rallycross-related tech in PC2 has led to a huge improvement in both the tires and their interaction with the track in all environments, including circuit racing. I doubt I'll use the rallyX components all that often upon release, but they have upped the overall quality of the game considerably. And the work's nowhere near complete.

Mahjik
22-08-2016, 17:09
Keep in mind that any work SMS may do for rallycross, will also benefit those who don't care for rallycross. The physics needed to support non-tarmac driving will also enhance the behavior of the cars/tires when wheels are dropped off tarmac for normal races (or when someone misses a turn and goes offroading).


EDIT: eracerhead posted something similar while I had waited to hit the send button. ;)

Konan
22-08-2016, 17:11
Keep in mind that any work SMS may do for rallycross, will also benefit those who don't care for rallycross. The physics needed to support non-tarmac driving will also enhance the behavior of the cars/tires when wheels are dropped off tarmac for normal races (or when someone misses a turn and goes offroading).

Good point...hadn't even thought of that...:cool:

crowtrobot
22-08-2016, 18:42
Also, don't you think that they have learned from the mistakes and bugs in pCARS1? and then squish them in pCARS2.
I know for a fact that they have.
That's not saying that there will not be bugs in pCARS2, but what game this technical doesn't have bugs at first release?
Eh, I'm not entirely convinced, seems like more of the same to me. Things are going great on the engineering side (which was where pCARS1 already excelled, IMHO), but I don't see how they're going to give it the polish that pCARS1 needed with the staff they have, the deadline they've set, and the increase in scope.

Guess we'll see, but given the promises that were made for pCARS1, and more recently the reaction to No Man's Sky, I'd be very wary of assuring people that everything will be fixed in the sequel.

TerminatorGR
22-08-2016, 19:12
Again you're implying that it can be only one or the other :) Especially when there's different people/teams working on different things, there's no reason why SMS wouldn't be able to do it all IMO.All he is saying, all we are saying, is that we are worried PC2 will try to be jack of all trades but will end up master of none.

Markus Ott
22-08-2016, 19:14
That's so great.
Just this last page shows why I don't give a damn anymore about what people say and only judge things by trying them myself. Especially when it comes to sims.

Mahjik
22-08-2016, 20:20
Not that this is a pCARS2 thread and not that SMS really needs anyone to post for them...

However, there have been a few posts on this forum from Ian and Bruno of SMS already commenting on things being done for pCARS2 because of what was learned from pCARS1. Ian has already mentioned a much larger QA program and Bruno has mentioned more and better debugging tools for pCARS2. I'm sure no matter what pCARS2 brings to the table, users will always want more.. But it does appear SMS is applying lessons learned to pCARS2 so we'll see how it ends up.

BreadedVirus
22-08-2016, 22:48
For their first attempt with the franchise, I'd say a big well congratulations.

hkraft300
22-08-2016, 23:47
Funny how people kick up a stink like "pcars1 is f*d the sequel will be f*d too"
Calm down mate. Nobody is putting a gun to your head and making you buy it.
Nobody stopping you playing other games.
FB tyres are buggy: drive something else.
AI sucks: learn to drive with them or stick to TT.

The only time my car has been destroyed by AI it was an MP lobby hosted by someone else. Every time I've played SP with AI they've been careful. Sure there's a little paint swapping but nothing to punt me right off the track or break my car. They have a limited "fov" just as I do and I have to drive accordingly. If I sit in the blind spot on the inside turning into a corner Ye, there's contact. Pretty sure you have to concede the corner in that situation anyway in a normal racing scenario.
Is the AI more aggro in MP vs SP?

F1_Racer68
23-08-2016, 00:23
Funny how people kick up a stink like "pcars1 is f*d the sequel will be f*d too"
Calm down mate. Nobody is putting a gun to your head and making you buy it.
Nobody stopping you playing other games.
FB tyres are buggy: drive something else.
AI sucks: learn to drive with them or stick to TT.

The only time my car has been destroyed by AI it was an MP lobby hosted by someone else. Every time I've played SP with AI they've been careful. Sure there's a little paint swapping but nothing to punt me right off the track or break my car. They have a limited "fov" just as I do and I have to drive accordingly. If I sit in the blind spot on the inside turning into a corner Ye, there's contact. Pretty sure you have to concede the corner in that situation anyway in a normal racing scenario.
Is the AI more aggro in MP vs SP?

AI in MP is a bad mix. I've tried it a few times, but the reality is the AI still end up being MUCH slower than real competitors. This tends to lead to problems, especially when trying to carry speed through corners to catch the real drivers that are ahead. The AI will run the preprogrammed speed/line and it usually ends badly for the real driver trying to get by. In SP it's a bit easier to deal with the AI because the leaders aren't scampering away while you are being held up 3 or 4 cars further back.

hkraft300
23-08-2016, 01:31
I suppose it depends on what AI difficulty the lobby host had set. I had no way of telling what level they used.
When the lobby hosted had set a low enough difficulty for AI I have qualified ahead and stayed ahead.
When they've been pretty close or fast (my SP AI strength is ~85%) they've been reckless. Smashing their way through like I wasn't there.
In SP they seem much more aware.
It's all anecdotal though I still wonder.

rosko
23-08-2016, 14:25
I hope it's OK if I say this, but adding rallycross-related tech in PC2 has led to a huge improvement in both the tires and their interaction with the track in all environments, including circuit racing. I doubt I'll use the rallyX components all that often upon release, but they have upped the overall quality of the game considerably. And the work's nowhere near complete.

yeah that is what i would expect, its not just about adding its about understanding.

So have they done anything with the FFB is it any easier to dial in?

crowtrobot
23-08-2016, 14:37
Funny how people kick up a stink like "pcars1 is f*d the sequel will be f*d too"
Calm down mate. Nobody is putting a gun to your head and making you buy it.
Nobody stopping you playing other games.
FB tyres are buggy: drive something else.
AI sucks: learn to drive with them or stick to TT.

The only time my car has been destroyed by AI it was an MP lobby hosted by someone else. Every time I've played SP with AI they've been careful. Sure there's a little paint swapping but nothing to punt me right off the track or break my car. They have a limited "fov" just as I do and I have to drive accordingly. If I sit in the blind spot on the inside turning into a corner Ye, there's contact. Pretty sure you have to concede the corner in that situation anyway in a normal racing scenario.
Is the AI more aggro in MP vs SP?
Not sure who this is directed at, but you're not doing anyone any favors by coming into a reasonable discussion on the pros/cons of the game and spewing an overly aggressive rebuttal to some people's criticism and offering some anecdotal evidence on the quality of the AI.

Might want to take your own advice and "calm down mate".

eracerhead
23-08-2016, 14:59
So have they done anything with the FFB is it any easier to dial in?

I can only say at this point that it's being worked on.

hkraft300
23-08-2016, 15:29
Should be obvious enough who it's directed at.
The criticisms themselves are anecdotal, no? I'm not sure about the FB medium tyres, being on a gamepad I can't experience ffb issues anyway, I don't think. Though the ffb signal from the game is same on both devices just that the rumble feedback is on/off and lacks the detail of ffb. However I've driven the FB medium tyres plenty without any funky vibration or odd behaviour.
As for AI, well I've seen the same complaints too many times. When racing humans I don't assume they can see me in the mirrors (often I'm hoping they haven't!) and I place my car accordingly. This AI are too advanced to drive them like you would in GT/Forza. They fight. They have blind spots and they give space when your move and position is legitimate. They won't slam you off at a braking zone if you set your ego aside and set the AI at your level, where you're not braking sooner than they expect you to. Same thing would happen if I'm right up ya and you brake hard and too early.
In other words, and has been explained countless times before, drive them as you would against people, like you're in a league race or better yet: a real race!
You, Mr crowtrobot, have been around these parts long enough to know that much about the AI is far from anecdotal.

crowtrobot
23-08-2016, 16:55
@hkraft300

I guess my point was: what are you hoping to accomplish by posting in that manner?

You're not going to convince the people who are posting that they had a particular experience with the AI that their experience is invalid because they should "lern2drive" and you did not have the same experience. Same with telling people to drive another car if one is bugged - I think it's a reasonable expectation that one car drive as well as the others (particularly in a single-make series where you don't have a choice).

By posting an aggressive point-by-point takedown, you're just pointing the thread in a bad direction. Let people vent and discuss, it should be helpful to the devs to use the feedback for the next iteration (or not).

Roger Prynne
23-08-2016, 17:35
You should know better crowtrobot, talking about pCARS2 in a derogatory way, this is not excepted on this forum, or any forum come to that, so I've deleted your comments on the subject.

crowtrobot
23-08-2016, 17:48
Are you kidding me? There's a huge difference between recommending skepticism and making "derogatory" statements.

I'd have thought the experience with Triple Screens, Custom Championships, Ovals, etc. would have been educational enough for people to over-promise on unreleased products, but apparently pointing that out is "derogatory". Whatever, I'm out.

Roger Prynne
23-08-2016, 17:51
OK, Bye bye then.

eiwhatsup
23-08-2016, 19:59
Should be obvious enough who it's directed at.
The criticisms themselves are anecdotal, no? I'm not sure about the FB medium tyres, being on a gamepad I can't experience ffb issues anyway, I don't think. Though the ffb signal from the game is same on both devices just that the rumble feedback is on/off and lacks the detail of ffb. However I've driven the FB medium tyres plenty without any funky vibration or odd behaviour.
As for AI, well I've seen the same complaints too many times. When racing humans I don't assume they can see me in the mirrors (often I'm hoping they haven't!) and I place my car accordingly. This AI are too advanced to drive them like you would in GT/Forza. They fight. They have blind spots and they give space when your move and position is legitimate. They won't slam you off at a braking zone if you set your ego aside and set the AI at your level, where you're not braking sooner than they expect you to. Same thing would happen if I'm right up ya and you brake hard and too early.
In other words, and has been explained countless times before, drive them as you would against people, like you're in a league race or better yet: a real race!
You, Mr crowtrobot, have been around these parts long enough to know that much about the AI is far from anecdotal.are we really talking of the same game?, because this left me too confused already. So a compeltely blind AI that won't detect you 99% percent of the times because it was coded to be as fast as possible with the con of being completely dumb means advance AI?. Do you really think we don't know racing the AI, or that we are bullying her, or that we don't know how to play or something like that?. It's just so funny when someone comes to say It's your fault because blah blah when It's most obvious the AI is not aware of you most of the times, thus ramming from sides and from behind constantly.

Konan
23-08-2016, 20:07
are we really talking of the same game?, because this left me too confused already. So a compeltely blind AI that won't detect you 99% percent of the times because it was coded to be as fast as possible with the con of being completely dumb means advance AI?. Do you really think we don't know racing the AI, or that we are bullying her, or that we don't know how to play or something like that?. It's just so funny when someone comes to say It's your fault because blah blah when It's most obvious the AI is not aware of you most of the times, thus ramming from sides and from behind constantly.

Must indeed be a different game you're talking about because i have no issues at all with the AI...mind you,i'm strictly talking about career here...
Sometimes (but that's really sometimes) in open wheel they can be a bit too aggressive...
The reason they're not aware of you is mostly when the player makes a "Rosberg" manoeuvre and tries to take the inside line at any cost...
I never had them "rear ending" me either....

eiwhatsup
23-08-2016, 20:56
Must indeed be a different game you're talking about because i have no issues at all with the AI
I never had them "rear ending" me either....you know. That's really hard to believe


The reason they're not aware of you is mostly when the player makes a "Rosberg" manoeuvre and tries to take the inside line at any cost...here we go

Konan
23-08-2016, 21:13
you know. That's really hard to believe

here we go


Just stating my experience like anyone else...i can't help it if that experience is different than yours (and others) but i'm sure i'm not alone in that either...

rosko
23-08-2016, 21:22
you know. That's really hard to believe

here we go


I always thought the AI was good, not perfect but considering it must be very difficult to get right they did a good job.
Just interested what game would you regard as having good racing AI?

Mahjik
23-08-2016, 21:32
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBObFG_cYrM

There is no doubt that there are some areas where the AI shines and where there are some issues. With that, some will have good experiences and some will not. That means there will be varied experiences between users. I've had more of the "shines" areas but have had some of the "some issues" areas as well. The above video was done with the GOLD release of pCARS just before it was released to the masses (so it's the same AI that everyone has). However, I'm sure if I did a similar race with other cars (i.e. like the Lotus 72D), it may have not been as pretty.

However, just because one user has a bad experience with the AI that doesn't mean everyone is having the same experience. It really is dependent on how you are using pCARS and which cars (and AI level) being used.

Roger Prynne
23-08-2016, 21:56
And here's one of mine, and I get the same with most classes....


http://youtu.be/hXY_uVMFgyE

And another one....


http://youtu.be/DhaCQhkMTVo

Also eiwhatsup, have you seen any of the good videos in the Single player Video thread?

http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?21976-pCARS-YouTube-Video-Thread-Single-Player

rosko
23-08-2016, 23:38
Just did a few races against AI, absolutely brilliant races, I think it makes a big difference in VR that you can see around you. The only negative thing i noticed is they seem a bit too fast in the wet. Either that or I'm too slow. I have raced in the past with the classic lotus's & that was a bit wacky racers admittedly. Also the difficulty differs quite a bit for each car so requires you to keep changing it.

hkraft300
24-08-2016, 01:01
are we really talking of the same game?, because this left me too confused already. So a compeltely blind AI that won't detect you 99% percent of the times because it was coded to be as fast as possible with the con of being completely dumb means advance AI?.

Could be your issue right there.
You expect them to be completely aware of you and give you space at all times, in all scenario. That's actually NOT how racing works, that's more like track day crcruising.

hkraft300
24-08-2016, 01:06
Just did a few races against AI, absolutely brilliant races, I think it makes a big difference in VR that you can see around you. The only negative thing i noticed is they seem a bit too fast in the wet. Either that or I'm too slow. I have raced in the past with the classic lotus's & that was a bit wacky racers admittedly. Also the difficulty differs quite a bit for each car so requires you to keep changing it.

Ye I'm looking forward to VR becoming mainstream for racing. It'll surely increase the quality of racing due to the increased FOV head tracking wizardry.

Howie
24-08-2016, 03:16
The AI and great tire physics is what keeps me playing pCars. And I have most the other Sims. I've been driving Nordscliefe combined with 55 Multiclass street cars lately. 6 laps. With Weather turned on, and it's been raining a lot on the Nords lately. Can't do qualifying with 55 AI. So I start in the middle of the pack. I drove the Mclaren F1 in the last race. And ended up in 6 place! Behind some Paganis and Hyper Sports thingamajig. Well I have been Sim racing against mostly AI since Sports Car GT. The AI in pCars give me a good race. Do some unexpected bad things some times. Just like real drivers do! And a good driver always expects the unexpected. There you go. Another bit of "anecdotal evidence" that the AI in pCars is currently the best. But I can't speak for all the genres in pCars. I don't do open wheel or Karts. If I had any big criticism of pCars. It tried to do to much. To many different racing types. Should have stuck to maybe just Road cars, GT Racing, and Prototypes. But you can't blame a guy for trying. Really looking forward to what they come up with in pCars2.

Howie
24-08-2016, 03:19
Ye I'm looking forward to VR becoming mainstream for racing. It'll surely increase the quality of racing due to the increased FOV head tracking wizardry.

Maybe that's why I enjoy racing the AI. I have a 42 inch TV in the center. Two 24 inch monitors in portrait on either side. And use Trackir. So it is very close to VR. Only the screen doesn't move with my head. But has so much landscape, it doesn't really need to. Works great!

Sankyo
24-08-2016, 06:38
There is no doubt that there are some areas where real-life drivers shine and where there are some issues.
FTFY :p

Sankyo
24-08-2016, 07:02
Are you kidding me? There's a huge difference between recommending skepticism and making "derogatory" statements.

I'd have thought the experience with Triple Screens, Custom Championships, Ovals, etc. would have been educational enough for people to over-promise on unreleased products, but apparently pointing that out is "derogatory". Whatever, I'm out.
The point is that WMD2 is a closed development environment so you should know better than stating opinions about its current status or development direction, especially since it's all just speculation from your side.

eiwhatsup
24-08-2016, 07:49
Could be your issue right there.
You expect them to be completely aware of you and give you space at all times, in all scenario. That's actually NOT how racing works, that's more like track day crcruising.Not sure whether laughing or crying. oh well


And here's one of mine, and I get the same with most classes....

Also eiwhatsup, have you seen any of the good videos in the Single player Video thread?

http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?21976-pCARS-YouTube-Video-Thread-Single-Playernope. I'm on it now, thanks for the link. Hadn't seen.

Anyway, I play FB exclusively, and you can trust me you won't find a worse AI anywhere else in any game. They're just suicidal, blind, dumb..., just horrible. Besides, when I play other classes such as GT3, I can see there's actually no difference between the AI cars. It's just the same stupid blind AI regardless the class. That's why I simply freak out when I see people using no matter the necessary excuse just to defend this extrremely poor coded AI, which is simply as fast as she can be with the obvious downside of being completely dumb, and unaware of you 99% of the times. It's that simple. That's just how this AI works. Nothing more nothing less

hkraft300
24-08-2016, 08:08
If the AI are such blind crash dummies according to you, I wonder how the majority have a great time playing against the AI in this game.

eiwhatsup
24-08-2016, 08:20
what majority are you talking about

SlowBloke
24-08-2016, 08:29
Do they take me out sometimes... sure....

They can be over aggressive & cut corners too.

However the vast majority of the time I have a ball and end up cursing the little sods for fighting me so hard.

There are other things I can moan about too that i would like the game to do better - however - even with those issues its still easily the best sim racing experience I have ever had by a mile (been doing this on and off for over 20 years).

Maybe pcars is just not for you ? Nothing wrong with that.

When a bunch of people disagree and show proof via videos that you can have a great fight with the AI at some point you might want to look at your approach to racing (at least in Project Cars) ?

I recommend at the start to be predictable, not be overly aggressive and predict / allow for the Ai behaviour.

Dont dive bomb at the last second (at least not in the first few corners and also not where you can see they are going fast) and if you are a bit behind a car coming up to a bend give up the fight then re-engage after the corner....

Once the pack evens out look at the behaviour of the car ahead - where are they slow etc... and plan your overtake based on that.

Using that approach I usually finish most races without any AI hassle and quite often come away with a big smile on my face.

Fanapryde
24-08-2016, 08:39
what majority are you talking about
You'd be surprised...
But anyway, just to compare, where is your AI difficulty slider at ?

hkraft300
24-08-2016, 08:40
what majority are you talking about

Myself and others just threw up some suggestions for you to change your approach to racing the AI since your approach clearly isn't working. We do this only to improve your enjoyment of the game in single player modes.
But hey, since you are the expert and we know nothing, go ahead and keep getting wrecked by the AI, while we enjoy the racing in this game :applause:

Sankyo
24-08-2016, 09:26
Do they take me out sometimes... sure....

They can be over aggressive & cut corners too.

However the vast majority of the time I have a ball and end up cursing the little sods for fighting me so hard.
You talking about the AI or your online league buddies? ;)

SlowBloke
24-08-2016, 09:29
You talking about the AI or your online league buddies? ;)

Well I could tell but that would be for a different forum :P

Markus Ott
24-08-2016, 09:35
Can we stop the AI discussion now?
There are people who like the AI and there are people, like me, who stopped playing career in open wheelers as I had to restart my Hockenheim FB race more than 30 times (no joke) before I made the first corner without the AI going completely mad over me.
We got it by now.

Konan
24-08-2016, 09:52
AI is a big part of the game...this thread is a review of that game so...
Nevertheless i agree...opinions on both sides were given...

eiwhatsup
24-08-2016, 11:17
Myself and others just threw up some suggestions for you to change your approach to racing the AI since your approach clearly isn't working. We do this only to improve your enjoyment of the game in single player modes.
But hey, since you are the expert and we know nothing, go ahead and keep getting wrecked by the AI, while we enjoy the racing in this game :applause:see?, you continue to think I don't know playing with the AI, and have yourself as the expert. That's the point with your approach towards me. You must think I'm an idiot or something (well me and anyone who says this AI is bad), who don't understand or see what this AI is doing, or the approach I must take towards her. That's why I said I don't know whether crying or laughing.


Can we stop the AI discussion now?
There are people who like the AI and there are people, like me, who stopped playing career in open wheelers as I had to restart my Hockenheim FB race more than 30 times (no joke) before I made the first corner without the AI going completely mad over me.
We got it by now.Hockenheim first corner mayhem is right the perfect example of how bad the AI in project cars is. But oh well the AI is great right... you know, you have to know how to threat her, be in the know when she's at your side, etc etc you don't know playing against the AI blah blah. LoL.

ok AI discussion/ off

rosko
24-08-2016, 12:58
What do you mean by mayhem? Can you describe what is happening here with the AI?

SlowBloke
24-08-2016, 13:00
Hockenheim first corner mayhem is right the perfect example of how bad the AI in project cars is. But oh well the AI is great right... you know, you have to know how to threat her, be in the know when she's at your side, etc etc you don't know playing against the AI blah blah. LoL.

ok AI discussion/ off

Not quite ;) - Just did some test laps in FB and agreed it gets ropey the guys behind you divebombing into you because they clip the inner curb. Happened to me 3/10 times that they hit me but I also see they do that and miss me - so for sure on that corner on that track - its bad... Ther are other tracks that also have complete fall apart moments (Rouen at Virage du nuveaux monde for instance).

There is room for improvement for sure but there are also many really great AI moments. Other games also have these type of issues btw - just try to take the new F1 cars out in Asseto Corsa and see them grinding to a halt all by themselves on various tracks....

btw we are not saying its perfect, we are not saying your an idiot. I think its very workable for the vast majority of races.

However Project Cars 2 will have to improve AI behaviour for sure - doesnt stop me enjoying what I got currently though - if it does for you fair enough.

Howie
24-08-2016, 13:19
AI might never be good enough for F1 racing. The decisions are just to quick and to unpredictable for a script of programming to handle. So the AI will always feel robotic. Once you learn their limitations you can just drive right around them. That's the reason I don't bother with Career mode. It seems pretty pointless to beat the AI in career.

Konan
24-08-2016, 13:22
AI might never be good enough for F1 racing. The decisions are just to quick and to unpredictable for a script of programming to handle. So the AI will always feel robotic. Once you learn their limitations you can just drive right around them. That's the reason I don't bother with Career mode. It seems pretty pointless to beat the AI in career.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qw9oX-kZ_9k

Howie
24-08-2016, 13:27
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qw9oX-kZ_9k

Have another cup of coffee.

Konan
24-08-2016, 13:36
Have another cup of coffee.

It's 34* celsius over here...i'll stick with soda's today (gin 'n tonic this evening) :cool:

bmanic
27-08-2016, 13:04
Can we stop the AI discussion now?
There are people who like the AI and there are people, like me, who stopped playing career in open wheelers as I had to restart my Hockenheim FB race more than 30 times (no joke) before I made the first corner without the AI going completely mad over me.
We got it by now.

Can confirm. In this particular corner with some of the open wheelers (formula B and 3.5 for me) at 100% difficulty the AI goes bonkers.

HOWEVER, this is only 1 track and one corner that is a major issue. How about we also list the absolutely BRILLIANT ai experiences for counter balance? For instance, front wheel drive hatchbacks at Ruapuna Outside Loop thing.. at 100% AI difficulty. It's awesome. Some of the best competitive racing ever. They do get a bit nutty at the hairpin but if you respect them and don't let them be right next to you in that corner you'll be in for an awesome race.

AI is definitely not perfect in pCars (mention any sim where it is? ) but in many situations it's not bad at all. It's so easy to get hung up on the negative and forget the good times. Surely you must have had some races by now that were good. I hope the inconsistency we have in pCars 1 AI can be fixed for pC2. That alone would go a long way in providing a better experience.

VFX Pro
27-08-2016, 23:33
Have you tried Jack Spade Tweaker physics file?? Just use the standard classic one. It's a completely different experience, just as good as Assetto Corsa. I have an Accuforce, and the Jack Spade File along with the other settings listed in this forum, Project Cars comes a whole new simulator.

rosko
28-08-2016, 00:15
I can't actually get my FFb in AC as good as i have it in PC. I still think that game doesn't get on well with mid priced wheels.

Madwak55
28-08-2016, 08:20
I can't actually get my FFb in AC as good as i have it in PC. I still think that game doesn't get on well with mid priced wheels.
I agree with you there, I'd heard so much about how good the ffb is in assetto corsa and was hugely disappointed when it felt nowhere near as good as I have in Pcars ☹️ I even prefer the ffb in dirt rally now that I've got it set up properly to that of assetto :D

Fanapryde
28-08-2016, 08:53
I can't actually get my FFb in AC as good as i have it in PC. I still think that game doesn't get on well with mid priced wheels.
It doesn't with higher priced wheels either. Not saying it is utterly bad, but pCars FFB is better (once you manage to get that dialed in the right way...

DerrellBiffle
28-08-2016, 18:21
Using Poirqc's template and Jack Spades tweaker files definitely makes for an awesome ffb setup. Pcars when setup correctly far outshines AC in my opinion especially when using this ffb combo.

John Hargreaves
28-08-2016, 18:32
I think AC's FFB gets better when you turn down all the canned effects, but I agree, I think pCars has much more going on with the tyres and you can feel that in the feedback. Having said that I've always thought pCars could be improved by the selective use of canned effects such as road texture and rumble strip to match the sounds from the non 3D kerbs.

Mad Al
28-08-2016, 18:48
I think AC's FFB gets better when you turn down all the canned effects, but I agree, I think pCars has much more going on with the tyres and you can feel that in the feedback. Having said that I've always thought pCars could be improved by the selective use of canned effects such as road texture and rumble strip to match the sounds from the non 3D kerbs.

That's my main issue with AC and why, even after two years (or how ever long ago I purchased the bloody thing), I still have only played it for a short amount of time... the fake effects really do grind and feel so horribly canned as to completely piss me off (and I saw someone suggesting to console players to put ALL that fake sh*t all the way up to 100... go figure!)
Quick check.. 55 hours in two years (FFS, I've played 77 hours of No Mans Sky.... and people reckoned that was crap..).. I think that 's one of the lowest amount of hours I've put into just about ANY driving game.

rosko
28-08-2016, 19:34
They are not canned effects apparently. At least that is what i have been told many times on the ac forums, they simply amplify the FFB physics effects already there. To me the road feel slider does not feel natural at all like it does in pcars.

m355y
28-08-2016, 20:21
Project CARS -

+ huge, loads of variety
+ endurance and multiclass racing, night/day, weather effects
+ deep and challenging
+ each car feels like it was made with love
+ visually impressive, technically impressive (after patches)

- DLC lost its way a few months along the line
- bugs
- too little track variety - all road courses
- spreads itself too thinly
- sometimes off-putting attitude of SMS themselves

Best for - intense, engrossing GT3 races with huge grids

Assetto Corsa

+ Handling is brilliant
+ challenging and accurate

- Visuals and presentation suck
- Technically last-gen
- Lacks variety in terms of cars and tracks
- new, unknown quantity as a console title

Best for - hot laps of the Nordschleife

Forza Motorsport 6

+ Enormous variety and sheer 'numbers'
+ Has all the licences, liveries etc
+ best by far recreation of Indycar and NASCAR of the three
+ Stable, technically rock solid with very few bugs or issues
+ handling may not be as sophisticated but in practise it's not that far away

- not as accurate
- no qualifying, no strategy, no fuel, tyre wear, etc etc, simplified
- A big glitzy for its own good, too many novelties

Best for - trying all kinds of different types of racing

Shadowoff
28-08-2016, 20:49
So, after I read through each comment of this threat I try to reply to the most of them.

The FFB:
Ofcourse you can tweak your FFB settings in pCars but in my opinion has AC still a way better handling. I dont just mean the FFB in mid turn, I also mean the handling on acceleration, oversteer, understeer and so on. The car is really slugish by oversteer or wheelspin and its also way harder to catch the car. Also you can really feel the curbs. I just drove some Karts (up to 90 kp/H) and if you hit the curbs you need to turn really hard to the side which isnt on the curbs to get slowly back on track. In pCars it never been a problem. The car almost didnt reacted to it (it did, but it feels almost like track, just a bit more slugish). In AC you can really feel the curb. You need to get a bit off throttle to not have wheelspin and have to turn hard to the side where the track is to not go into the gravel.

The Cars and Tracks:

pCars has a lot more tracks and cars than AC but AC is easier to mod. There are so many moded cars and tracks and all together are definetly more than pCars has. If I remember to the first version there just been something like 9 cars and 3 tracks and the game was made for moding.

I know that this post kinda sounds like I hate pCars and love AC but thats wrong. They are both great games and I appreciate both games. I just wanna defend AC a little bit because its unfair in my opinion to say that AC is worse than pCars just because we are on a pCars forum.

Mad Al
28-08-2016, 20:54
They are not canned effects apparently. At least that is what i have been told many times on the ac forums, they simply amplify the FFB physics effects already there. To me the road feel slider does not feel natural at all like it does in pcars.

I can feel a constant amplitude and frequency waveform.... not canned my arse

Fanapryde
28-08-2016, 21:45
So, after I read through each comment of this threat I try to reply to the most of them.

The FFB:
Ofcourse you can tweak your FFB settings in pCars but in my opinion has AC still a way better handling. I dont just mean the FFB in mid turn, I also mean the handling on acceleration, oversteer, understeer and so on. The car is really slugish by oversteer or wheelspin and its also way harder to catch the car. Also you can really feel the curbs. I just drove some Karts (up to 90 kp/H) and if you hit the curbs you need to turn really hard to the side which isnt on the curbs to get slowly back on track. In pCars it never been a problem. The car almost didnt reacted to it (it did, but it feels almost like track, just a bit more slugish). In AC you can really feel the curb. You need to get a bit off throttle to not have wheelspin and have to turn hard to the side where the track is to not go into the gravel.

The Cars and Tracks:

pCars has a lot more tracks and cars than AC but AC is easier to mod. There are so many moded cars and tracks and all together are definetly more than pCars has. If I remember to the first version there just been something like 9 cars and 3 tracks and the game was made for moding.

I know that this post kinda sounds like I hate pCars and love AC but thats wrong. They are both great games and I appreciate both games. I just wanna defend AC a little bit because its unfair in my opinion to say that AC is worse than pCars just because we are on a pCars forum.
Just wondering what wheel you have ?
Because what you experience is totally different from what I have.
Best example: try whatever car at Rouen-les-Essarts and hit the roadside. If I do that the car gets lifted and becomes really instable. If uou don't exoerience that, your FFB is off, search no more. On other tracks I can even feel how high the kerbs are.
Granted that for AC there are LOTS of moded tracks and cars (I have literally tried them all), how many are worth keeping ? If you set the standards on the same level as the game (graphics wise), there will be not much left. A few cars and more than a few tracks (some better than the Kunos originals - e.g. the laser scanned Red Bull ring is worse than the existing modded track - by far).
As for the moded cars, each Kunos update breaks the sound files and they are worthless until they get updated (if ever).
AI does not even know how to drive some of the moded tracks, so they are only for hotlapping.
This is not Kunos fault, but there is little use in seeing the mods as AC's saver.
I don't hate AC either, I use it mainly for hotlapping inbetween racing pCars and R3E.
Imo AC is not even close to pCars (and will probably never be), something I mention on both forums.
The last patch made AI a bit better. Not faster sadly, but now you can push back in stead of being totally helpless when they just push you off track, even when respecting their line or place on track.

John Hargreaves
28-08-2016, 22:13
They are not canned effects apparently. At least that is what i have been told many times on the ac forums, they simply amplify the FFB physics effects already there. To me the road feel slider does not feel natural at all like it does in pcars.

Maybe they have stopped using them in recent versions (I turned them down in mine anyway), but this is from the 1.3 patch notes:

"New FFB additional effects
- slips - adding a vibration on the steering wheel as you are going over the limit of the tyre (definitely realistic, could be there on a real tyre). Why ? see the video : )
- road - what it does is translating the instant acceleration of your suspensions compared to the body of the car into left-right torques on your steering wheel. Why ? see the video : )
- kerbs - expands on the same idea (road effect). Canned effect though, it's not all coming from the physics. Some kerbs are flat (Spa for example) and yet we still get the vibration. Interesting explanation about the FFB distribution (inside/outside of the car) - see the video : )
- understeer - fictional reduction of the torque, going over the limit of the tyre. This one is completely unrealistic but it's necessary because of the limited force we can get from our (basic) wheels. Not talking to you, OSW or DD owners :p."

Edit: I'm not suggesting that all their ffb is only canned effects, just that there is a layer of effects in addition to what comes from the physics, which can be quite effective if it's subtle.

rosko
28-08-2016, 23:15
So, after I read through each comment of this threat I try to reply to the most of them.

The FFB:
Ofcourse you can tweak your FFB settings in pCars but in my opinion has AC still a way better handling. I dont just mean the FFB in mid turn, I also mean the handling on acceleration, oversteer, understeer and so on. The car is really slugish by oversteer or wheelspin and its also way harder to catch the car. Also you can really feel the curbs. I just drove some Karts (up to 90 kp/H) and if you hit the curbs you need to turn really hard to the side which isnt on the curbs to get slowly back on track. In pCars it never been a problem. The car almost didnt reacted to it (it did, but it feels almost like track, just a bit more slugish). In AC you can really feel the curb. You need to get a bit off throttle to not have wheelspin and have to turn hard to the side where the track is to not go into the gravel.

The Cars and Tracks:

pCars has a lot more tracks and cars than AC but AC is easier to mod. There are so many moded cars and tracks and all together are definetly more than pCars has. If I remember to the first version there just been something like 9 cars and 3 tracks and the game was made for moding.

I know that this post kinda sounds like I hate pCars and love AC but thats wrong. They are both great games and I appreciate both games. I just wanna defend AC a little bit because its unfair in my opinion to say that AC is worse than pCars just because we are on a pCars forum.

I have both games as well & going over a curb is much more of an ordeal for me in pcars, in FFb the wheel is pretty violent far stronger than on AC & also loss of traction is more common in pcars over bumps it tends to bounce higher, not saying that is better or more realistic just different. Also in pcars with the bigger curbs i can feel the shape of them & feel the wheel fall down the edge where as in AC they all feel pretty similar. I know they have recently updated it so the curbs are improved but they still pale in comparison in terms of FFB.

Its nice to have mods, but as mentioned above there is an issue of quality control. Majority of car mods are from other games, its doubtful the physics are realistic. That said there are a few exceptions that are really well done. Same with the tracks.

rosko
28-08-2016, 23:19
Maybe they have stopped using them in recent versions (I turned them down in mine anyway), but this is from the 1.3 patch notes:

"New FFB additional effects
- slips - adding a vibration on the steering wheel as you are going over the limit of the tyre (definitely realistic, could be there on a real tyre). Why ? see the video : )
- road - what it does is translating the instant acceleration of your suspensions compared to the body of the car into left-right torques on your steering wheel. Why ? see the video : )
- kerbs - expands on the same idea (road effect). Canned effect though, it's not all coming from the physics. Some kerbs are flat (Spa for example) and yet we still get the vibration. Interesting explanation about the FFB distribution (inside/outside of the car) - see the video : )
- understeer - fictional reduction of the torque, going over the limit of the tyre. This one is completely unrealistic but it's necessary because of the limited force we can get from our (basic) wheels. Not talking to you, OSW or DD owners :p."

Edit: I'm not suggesting that all their ffb is only canned effects, just that there is a layer of effects in addition to what comes from the physics, which can be quite effective if it's subtle.

Interesting as i would say the above description is more accurate to what i feel. So not sure why i read that it wasn't several times on the forum.

DerrellBiffle
29-08-2016, 00:13
It's is interesting how people feel so different about each game. For me the handling and gameplay in AC just feels dead, i.e. when you push the car it just seems to oversteer, regarderless of setups they just feel like driving around in different colored boxes. Where in pcars if your pushing at Brands Hatch and barely touch the curb in Dingle Dell you spinning of into the the wall. Just my observations and opinion, not looking to offend anyone.

Shadowoff
29-08-2016, 05:22
Just wondering what wheel you have ?
Because what you experience is totally different from what I have.
Best example: try whatever car at Rouen-les-Essarts and hit the roadside. If I do that the car gets lifted and becomes really instable. If uou don't exoerience that, your FFB is off, search no more. On other tracks I can even feel how high the kerbs are.
Granted that for AC there are LOTS of moded tracks and cars (I have literally tried them all), how many are worth keeping ? If you set the standards on the same level as the game (graphics wise), there will be not much left. A few cars and more than a few tracks (some better than the Kunos originals - e.g. the laser scanned Red Bull ring is worse than the existing modded track - by far).
As for the moded cars, each Kunos update breaks the sound files and they are worthless until they get updated (if ever).
AI does not even know how to drive some of the moded tracks, so they are only for hotlapping.
This is not Kunos fault, but there is little use in seeing the mods as AC's saver.
I don't hate AC either, I use it mainly for hotlapping inbetween racing pCars and R3E.
Imo AC is not even close to pCars (and will probably never be), something I mention on both forums.
The last patch made AI a bit better. Not faster sadly, but now you can push back in stead of being totally helpless when they just push you off track, even when respecting their line or place on track.

I have the G29 and Im using on both games the full FFB strength and everything else default. I dont have any problems with mods in AC. I downloaded something like 30 mods and they are all working great. And about the AI you cant say that they are fast in pCars. I can beat AC's and pCars' AI easils.

Fanapryde
29-08-2016, 06:42
I have the G29 and Im using on both games the full FFB strength and everything else default. I dont have any problems with mods in AC. I downloaded something like 30 mods and they are all working great. And about the AI you cant say that they are fast in pCars. I can beat AC's and pCars' AI easils.
Well there you go. If you use full FFB, you will loose a lot of effects in both games, try and play the values. The G27/29 (mainly the same wheel, apart from the looks) can not inform you about subtle details when you use maximum FFB.

If you find all the mods to be working/looking great, then OK, I may have put the bar higher than you, each his own.
I don't like ugly looking, low poly interiors, bad sounds, wrong physics. And I don't like tracks that look like coming from a 12 year old game, having cardboard spectators and trees, flags that look like coctail sticks, AI not knowing how to drive or even how to start without messing up...

And where did I say AI was fast ?

Shadowoff
29-08-2016, 06:54
The last patch made AI a bit better. Not faster sadly

This sounds for me like it is to easy for you in AC, sorry if I understood that wrong.

rosko
29-08-2016, 10:44
If your settings are default this will be the reason you have no road or curb feel.

breyzipp
03-09-2016, 17:01
The 3 things I like the most and dislike the most about Project CARS :

PRO's :
1 - dynamic weather & time of day
2 - singleplayer career calender
3 - helmet camera with motion blur

CON's :
1 - too difficult to properly set up a car (about 50 settings for ffb alone... in Assetto Corsa every car I tried so far drives way better straight out of the box without any tweaking)
2 - liveries. First of all give us a toggle to hide all the fantasy liveries, I don't like them. Secondly, let us save a livery that works everywhere (opening garage, singleplayer, multiplayer, career, free play, ...)
3 - car crashing physics, I know we're not ment to crash into a barrier but if we do, it feels so unrealistic (sound, graphics, car behaviour)

Konan
03-09-2016, 17:11
The 3 things I like the most and dislike the most about Project CARS :

PRO's :
1 - dynamic weather & time of day
2 - singleplayer career calender
3 - helmet camera with motion blur

CON's :
1 - too difficult to properly set up a car (about 50 settings for ffb alone... in Assetto Corsa every car I tried so far drives way better straight out of the box without any tweaking)
2 - liveries. First of all give us a toggle to hide all the fantasy liveries, I don't like them. Secondly, let us save a livery that works everywhere (opening garage, singleplayer, multiplayer, career, free play, ...)
3 - car crashing physics, I know we're not ment to crash into a barrier but if we do, it feels so unrealistic (sound, graphics, car behaviour)


What i can say about the physics is that a lot was restricted by the car manufacturers....

cluck
03-09-2016, 17:33
What i can say about the physics is that a lot was restricted by the car manufacturers....The crash physics I presume you mean?

Konan
03-09-2016, 17:36
...indeed...forgot to mention that...:cool:

rosko
03-09-2016, 17:52
tbh it used to bother me when i first got it, now i don't care so much.