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View Full Version : Land mine or a failure? What's the difference.



IrideGravity
31-08-2016, 16:40
So. I have noticed a few landlines still around, but noticed they effect my son more, who generally drives a more dangerous style over curbs with more contact with AI than me and he has more "land mine events than me. Just had my first in a while and it came after I messed up chicane at monza and got the car airborn.
Could a "failure" or broken car look like a land mine situation?
Just wondering
How would you tell the difference? How can you tell a failure apart from a landline?
What does a failure look like if it isn't exactly like a land mine?
Anyway. Been enjoying offline career lately.

Sankyo
01-09-2016, 06:38
A 'landmine' in pCARS is when you car is suddenly thrown into the air without any collision or other mishap having occurred. Going too fast over sausage kerbs wil get your car airborne, but that is not a landmine. A landmine would be when you drive over a plain piece of road or over ordinary flat/serrated kerbs and suddenly your car acts as if it hit a big heavy obstacle, or it is launched into the air. Physically that wouldn't make sense in reality, so it shouldn't happen in the game either.

magical-one
01-09-2016, 11:51
Landmine: The moment your 40+ lap race and entire series lead goes right out the window.

http://i.makeagif.com/media/9-09-2015/CN4xg5.gif (http://makeagif.com/CN4xg5)

IrideGravity
01-09-2016, 16:22
So what does an actual "failure" look like?
What happens or is animated when a car fails. Just a sudden stop?
How can you tell when you have a failure? Car coasts to stop as opposed to an Inviseable wall?
No chance of mistaking the two events for each other?

Roger Prynne
01-09-2016, 17:00
Did you watch any replays back in slow mo, to see exactly what happens and where?
But probably you don't have the replays :rolleyes-new:

mapguy
01-09-2016, 17:44
I still find that happening to me. Typically it happens to me on the front straight at Road America. Doesn't matter what I am driving. It has happened in an IndyCar, a GT3 and an LMP2. I do also remember it happening once on the front straight at Donington in an Group A M3.

Frustrating as I was always in the lead...

Mahjik
01-09-2016, 18:01
Could a "failure" or broken car look like a land mine situation?
Just wondering

Yes. What can happen (but shouldn't) is that a suspension component could get damage to where it goes into a range that the simulation engine doesn't expect. Granted, there should be controls in place to ensure things do move into an undesirable state, but it can happen. If the suspension is in an unknown state then it's behavior can be unexpected (i.e. hopping or other weird behavior).


How would you tell the difference? How can you tell a failure apart from a landline?

Unfortunately, you likely wouldn't be able to tell from a consumer point of view. It usually requires some development tools to be able to analyze what was going on at the time.

bradleyland
01-09-2016, 18:17
So what does an actual "failure" look like?
What happens or is animated when a car fails. Just a sudden stop?
How can you tell when you have a failure? Car coasts to stop as opposed to an Inviseable wall?
No chance of mistaking the two events for each other?

There are a couple of types of "landmine" issues:

The Classic
You're driving along normally (it can be in the middle of the road) and your car shoots up in to the air. If damage is turned on, the car is usually un-driveable after the event.

The Invisible Wall
You're driving along normally and suddenly the car is at a full stop. The gear selector is in neutral.

The Partial
You're driving along and all of the sudden your wheel jerks suddenly for no reason. The car may be destabilized, resulting in a crash, or you may continue normally.

All three of these have happened to me on a number of occasions. There are some places that you can reproduce a landmine event easily. For example, try driving the Audi R8 V10 Plus (Road A) on California Highway (in sector 3, you will bottom out and the car will stop [invisible wall landmine]). The R8 also has issues on Nordschleife. You can tune the suspension to mitigate the issue, but it does not solve it entirely.

Once you have experienced a couple of landmines, it is pretty easy to tell the difference between a landmine and a curb-hit. Lots of people will wreck and say "oh I hit a landmine!", but often they're just offering an excuse for their poor driving. Not always, but my recommendation is to treat these claims with a grain of salt.

I have a video that I'm editing that shows a landmine. I'll post it here when I'm done.

IrideGravity
02-09-2016, 18:23
Yes. What can happen (but shouldn't) is that a suspension component could get damage to where it goes into a range that the simulation engine doesn't expect. Granted, there should be controls in place to ensure things do move into an undesirable state, but it can happen. If the suspension is in an unknown state then it's behavior can be unexpected (i.e. hopping or other weird behavior).



Unfortunately, you likely wouldn't be able to tell from a consumer point of view. It usually requires some development tools to be able to analyze what was going on at the time.

That is obviously not ideal, I guess that means the only failure that can be properly identified and obvious at all times is an engine failure. Because you coast to a stop with no power.
Any suspension or chassis failure, including blown tires, if those are even simulated, which I hope not.
It means they will all result in a landline like event if it's a chassis related failure.
Any plans or talk of having an engine damage only option to avoid land mines. Since there isn't a way to tell failures from a land mine?

Edit:
And I only ever saved one landline replay. Because it was a real Gem.
Car lost control and did its own thing. Like a remote control car that's lost its transmitter signal. Took off into the air and Just kept ramming itself into the walls trying to go airborn after I disconnected wheel for fear of dAmage.
The rest of the time, I just restart session and laugh. Never had one destroy a large investment of time yet luckily.

Roger Prynne
02-09-2016, 18:42
Also these are classic landmines.....


http://youtu.be/X1N5NcZzC-4


http://youtu.be/6WC0cMwSxAI


http://youtu.be/ROf3p1GBpZQ

IrideGravity
03-09-2016, 18:07
Also these are classic landmines.....


http://youtu.be/X1N5NcZzC-4


http://youtu.be/6WC0cMwSxAI


http://youtu.be/ROf3p1GBpZQ

Cool thanks.
What the thread could really use is footage of a failure other than a blown engine, if it exists.
Might clear some things up.

bradleyland
03-09-2016, 22:16
Cool thanks.
What the thread could really use is footage of a failure other than a blown engine, if it exists.
Might clear some things up.

Not sure what you mean? What's to clear up? I'm guessing based on this...


So what does an actual "failure" look like?
What happens or is animated when a car fails. Just a sudden stop?
How can you tell when you have a failure? Car coasts to stop as opposed to an Inviseable wall?
No chance of mistaking the two events for each other?

It sounds like you're wondering whether your failures during a race are due to a landmine or a mechanical failure.

Landmine bugs are pretty rare these days. All I can say is that the difference between a landmine and a regular failure is very, very obvious. If you wreck your car, and it won't drive any more, that's not a landmine. If you're driving normally, and your engine fails, that's not a landmine. If you clip a wall and your car steering is all off, that's not a landmine.

When you encounter a landmine bug, your car either stops completely and immediately, or goes flying in to the air. If neither of those happen, then it's not a landmine bug.

It's best not to overthink it. Just keep practicing and as you improve, you'll experience fewer wrecks, which will result in fewer failures.

IrideGravity
04-09-2016, 08:47
Not sure what you mean? What's to clear up? I'm guessing based on this...



It sounds like you're wondering whether your failures during a race are due to a landmine or a mechanical failure.

Landmine bugs are pretty rare these days. All I can say is that the difference between a landmine and a regular failure is very, very obvious. If you wreck your car, and it won't drive any more, that's not a landmine. If you're driving normally, and your engine fails, that's not a landmine. If you clip a wall and your car steering is all off, that's not a landmine.

When you encounter a landmine bug, your car either stops completely and immediately, or goes flying in to the air. If neither of those happen, then it's not a landmine bug.

It's best not to overthink it. Just keep practicing and as you improve, you'll experience fewer wrecks, which will result in fewer failures.

These types of posts always make me chuckle.

Lots of land mines.
No failures that I know of. But how would I identify a suspension failure?
Are they in the game? What gets animated if suspension fails?
Was just wondering if they could be mistaken for each other.
I think the only failure in the game is engine. Only one I've seen anyway.
I never have failures. Save for learning that engines could fail a long time ago.
And neither does my son who I mentioned deals with a lot more damage and collisions.

I would be curious to see if playing without damage removes landmines?
Any reports of this.
Like I said
Only animation I know of for a failure is coasting to a stop after an engine failed.

No one else has mentioned any others if they are in the game.

Edit:

Broken off wheels. could be suspension animation damage I guess.
Ive seen that and rolled cars and crashed cars that just die.

Mahjik
04-09-2016, 13:10
I would be curious to see if playing without damage removes landmines?


True landmines, no. Playing without damage will not remove true landmines.

blakeperez
04-09-2016, 19:41
Some legal beagle will probably correct me but I think the fundamental difference is that a bomb goes bnag when it hits the ground (OK plus any delay, minus any proximity fusing, penetration etc) and a mine sits there all beligerent waiting for someone or something to pass nearby and hence set it off. Mines can be 'sown' by air either in the sea or on land. Oh and they're illegal (well land mines are - not sure about marine mines) which bombs by and large aren't. Some of our more cunning bombs were partly mines (JP 233) and so we've had to stop using them. Hug that tree - wear those open toed sandals with pride!

Roger Prynne
05-09-2016, 12:07
^ what are you smoking :confused: ;)

RomKnight
05-09-2016, 12:30
^ what are you smoking :confused: ;)

I don't know, but I want some :D

bradleyland
07-09-2016, 01:56
These types of posts always make me chuckle.

Lots of land mines.
No failures that I know of. But how would I identify a suspension failure?
Are they in the game? What gets animated if suspension fails?
Was just wondering if they could be mistaken for each other.
I think the only failure in the game is engine. Only one I've seen anyway.
I never have failures. Save for learning that engines could fail a long time ago.
And neither does my son who I mentioned deals with a lot more damage and collisions.

I would be curious to see if playing without damage removes landmines?
Any reports of this.
Like I said
Only animation I know of for a failure is coasting to a stop after an engine failed.

No one else has mentioned any others if they are in the game.

Edit:

Broken off wheels. could be suspension animation damage I guess.
Ive seen that and rolled cars and crashed cars that just die.

This was an online race with damage turned off.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3rsXx2bfU2s

That was me in the green/white/black livery car. Damage has nothing to do with landmines.

Roger Prynne
07-09-2016, 14:45
^ Yep, that's your typical landmine.

bradleyland
07-09-2016, 19:06
I put together a video for you, IrideGravity. Hope you get a good laugh ;)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pE054wJ8Jeo

bradleyland
07-09-2016, 19:09
So to answer your question, there is an animation (of sorts) for when suspension (err, tire/wheel) ultimately fails, and that fault is indicated in the HUD just like an engine failure.

And no, there is still no causative link between suspension failure and landmines. However, if damage is turned on, a landmine bug can certainly wreck your car.

konnos
08-09-2016, 00:08
Bradley I have pointed out the Audi R8 bug, but I don't believe this is a landmine exactly. I have only had this issue with the R8 and it seems to be a suspension problem. When you are at high speed and you make a jump and land, bottoming out the suspension it seems to exceed some value (I guess) and it makes the car "frame-box" clip the road mesh, halting it to a sudden stop. This same incident will also occur if there is a sudden change in elevation, like the one you showed in your video.

So from what I have seen so far, this is not exactly a landmine, but rather a combination of a buggy car suspesion and/or the Audi R8's car hitbox, as other cars do not have the problem in this or other surfaces. I m also guessing that the change in elevation is not gradual enough when the track was designed and meshed, and so this problem occurs. I was also quite dissapointed with this fact and the fact that SMS do not seem to be able to fix this, which means I can not race the R8 in California and also can be hit or miss in the Nordschleife.

bradleyland
08-09-2016, 01:29
The landmine bugs and the Audi R8 bug on California Highway are related. They're both cases where the physics engine results in unexpected output. In the case of the R8, the problem is with the car's suspension and hit box. With most landmines, it's a problem with the track surface and its interaction with the tire. For illustrative purposes, they are the same though. The most important aspect was to show the difference between suspension failure and a game bug that results in a physics inconsistency.

Mahjik
08-09-2016, 02:52
The Audi R8 has it's own car specific issues. SMS is aware of them.

bradleyland
08-09-2016, 03:05
Fellas, I'm aware of the R8 specific issues. That's why I grabbed that car and went specifically to California Hwy Stage 3. That's tangential to the point though. I'm trying to make clear the difference between landmines (physics engine bugs) and suspension failures for the OP.

konnos
08-09-2016, 09:04
Yes of course, I was only pointing out the particual issue with the R8 is not a landmine issue alone.

To be honest, i ve driven PCars amost 400 hours now and I ve never hit a landmine, in the traditional sense that it flings you up in the air, but I've seen videos demonstrating it.

bradleyland
08-09-2016, 14:09
Yeah, it's become a very rare event for me as well. I was really surprised to have encountered that one at Oulton park.

azidahaka
12-09-2016, 17:37
This is a vintage video of the best landmine i have ever had... After exploding the car FLOWN away! :D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-PrIXMYYsks

Seriously talking PCars2 will take lots of time before i open my wallet for it; first i'll wait reports for similar bugs.

I can't believe landmines haven't been fixed before support on the game stopped. It's honestly a shame.