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hpiguy
17-09-2016, 19:08
So, I did a lot of research, and even reached out to a fellow member here and another forum before taking the plunge down the rabbit hole that is current gen VR systems. I also could care less about room scale, it's just not my thing. Having owned a Wii, I learned that I'm very much a SOA (sit on arse :D) gamer. That being said...

I got my Rift CV1 yesterday, and had already downloaded not only the Oculus home and SDK software, but quite a bit of content both from the home store, and Steam, in addition to the sim titles I already owned. I started out with minor stuff like introduction to VR, some Lucky's Tale (pretty fun IMO) and other smaller titles. Once I was confident I had my VR legs under me, I proceeded to turn laps in Project Cars, Dirt Rally, Assetto Corsa, and finally iRacing. All I can say is, HOLY S$%TBALLS! There are no words, or Youtube videos that can ever hope to convey what you feel in VR, it simply does it zero justice. Sitting in, TRULY sitting in a Lotus 49 and flying through the undulating Nordschleife while being able to turn your head intuitively for every apex and upcoming corner, along with the gorgeous visuals that the SMD team put into Pcars is simply incredible. Same can be said for AC and iRacing, both also well done. I saved Dirt Rally for last, as I had heard it was very intense. I loaded up Halemati Finland as it's one of my favorite stages, in one of my favorite cars, the 2001 Imprezza. Never in my life have I felt my stomach drop while sitting still in an office chair, or noticing that I was holding my breath through a corner with tress or rocks close by while hurtling through it at triple digit speeds, fearful for my own safety and that of my co-driver. I personally feel that VR is the single biggest revolution in gaming since the early consoles, and the advent of more affordable PCs that enabled people to bring the arcade into their living room. It is simply mind blowing!!

I am having one small issue in Pcars, anytime there are fence posts hurtling by, they have a weird strobe effect. Is there a graphics setting I can turn off to fix this? Other than that, Pcars is by far the prettiest of all of them.

My God man, what a time to be alive!!

cluck
18-09-2016, 06:52
So, I did a lot of research, and even reached out to a fellow member here and another forum before taking the plunge down the rabbit hole that is current gen VR systems. I also could care less about room scale, it's just not my thing. Having owned a Wii, I learned that I'm very much a SOA (sit on arse :D) gamer. That being said...

I got my Rift CV1 yesterday, and had already downloaded not only the Oculus home and SDK software, but quite a bit of content both from the home store, and Steam, in addition to the sim titles I already owned. I started out with minor stuff like introduction to VR, some Lucky's Tale (pretty fun IMO) and other smaller titles. Once I was confident I had my VR legs under me, I proceeded to turn laps in Project Cars, Dirt Rally, Assetto Corsa, and finally iRacing. All I can say is, HOLY S$%TBALLS! There are no words, or Youtube videos that can ever hope to convey what you feel in VR, it simply does it zero justice. Sitting in, TRULY sitting in a Lotus 49 and flying through the undulating Nordschleife while being able to turn your head intuitively for every apex and upcoming corner, along with the gorgeous visuals that the SMD team put into Pcars is simply incredible. Same can be said for AC and iRacing, both also well done. I saved Dirt Rally for last, as I had heard it was very intense. I loaded up Halemati Finland as it's one of my favorite stages, in one of my favorite cars, the 2001 Imprezza. Never in my life have I felt my stomach drop while sitting still in an office chair, or noticing that I was holding my breath through a corner with tress or rocks close by while hurtling through it at triple digit speeds, fearful for my own safety and that of my co-driver. I personally feel that VR is the single biggest revolution in gaming since the early consoles, and the advent of more affordable PCs that enabled people to bring the arcade into their living room. It is simply mind blowing!!

I am having one small issue in Pcars, anytime there are fence posts hurtling by, they have a weird strobe effect. Is there a graphics setting I can turn off to fix this? Other than that, Pcars is by far the prettiest of all of them.

My God man, what a time to be alive!!Help me out here, because it's not quite clear from your post. Do you like your Rift?

:D

I've had my DK2 for 2 years now and I've been saying much the same since the first time I pulled the visor down over my face. Just wait until you start :-

1. Trying to cool your hands on the car air vents and wonder why you can't feel their draft
2. Trying to block the sun's glare with your hands and wonder why 'your hands' are still on the wheel
3. Trying to look at the time on your wrist (if you wear a watch) and wonder why 'your arms' aren't moving
4. Trying to wipe the rain off your visor and wonder why 'your hands' are still on the wheel
5. Looking at other drivers on the grid and waving and wondering why they aren't waving back at you

I definitely, absolutely, have not never not done any (or all) of the above :D

mr_belowski
18-09-2016, 12:21
Told you you'd hate it :)

John Hargreaves
19-09-2016, 11:41
Give the FA a try, the way the structure of the car wraps around you really pulls you into the cockpit. I'm already saving up for a CV2, as the resolution/screen door will be better next time, and that's the only weakness as far as I can see.

hpiguy
20-09-2016, 04:32
I got things running really good tonight thanks to some help here at the forum. Gave the FA a try, oooof, way too twitchy for me! I did manage to get a 15 car (GT 3 class, my favorite) field running at Spa, at night, in a thunderstorm, and it ran smooth as could be. And it was incredible looking. BUT, as good as it was, the hood cam in the replay, with the rain drops hitting the Rift was just over the top. I am blown away SMD team, I cannot imagine what Pcars2 has in store for us! Had some good fun in my old Lotus 49C at Laguna Seca too, the corkscrew is a whole new animal in VR.

RaceNut
21-09-2016, 19:59
Help me out here, because it's not quite clear from your post. Do you like your Rift?

:D

I've had my DK2 for 2 years now and I've been saying much the same since the first time I pulled the visor down over my face. Just wait until you start :-

1. Trying to cool your hands on the car air vents and wonder why you can't feel their draft
2. Trying to block the sun's glare with your hands and wonder why 'your hands' are still on the wheel
3. Trying to look at the time on your wrist (if you wear a watch) and wonder why 'your arms' aren't moving
4. Trying to wipe the rain off your visor and wonder why 'your hands' are still on the wheel
5. Looking at other drivers on the grid and waving and wondering why they aren't waving back at you

I definitely, absolutely, have not never not done any (or all) of the above :D
Hmm, never leaned on the armrest only to find yourself falling out of your seat? Nope, didn't happen here . . . :p

rosko
21-09-2016, 20:09
Glad you are enjoying the rift. It may help to turn off complex shadows, this seems to be buggy in pcars unfortunately as it can cause some glitching.

gp20
26-11-2016, 07:06
Yep, the VR bring me back to Pcars and i can't wait for Pcars 2.

SlowBloke
01-12-2016, 15:22
As you say you just cannot convey apart from excited babble just how incredible it is.

I was blown away the first time I saw Quake GL - no pixels... that was incredible - but that paled in comparison to when I first put the rift on my noggin' - First thing I thought was I am so happy to be alive to experience wonder again like a child (Im 50 in 3 years and you just dont get that wow factor anymore)

Its in its infancy too - holy moly !!

It feels like devs still need to find their feet and adopt an accepted industry standard approach to what to do and not to do etc...

I also cannot wait to see what Mr Bell & Co have in store for us on the Rift in Project Cars 2..... I hope there are lessons learned in terms of what hammers a system and fancy work arounds that do the same but with very little overhead etc... and ofcourse nvidia and ati as well as the VR headset guys themselves.

For sure for clearer image right now we need way way more power than we will have in the next few years.

dlyte
07-12-2016, 16:02
I was hoping to have your experience with the rift and PCars. I bought the rift specifically for this. But I didnt have the same experience. The quality and experience wasnt at all what I thought it was going to be. i have a GTX1080 and 4790k. I just got it last night and havent had a ton of time to play with settings but there are a bunch of issues and questions that just baffle me.

jaggies everywhere: on my 1080p ips monitor everything looks amazing. when I threw the rift on it looks like an arcade screen from the 90's. Im all about retro but not with my project cars. I dont understand why when I go the settings menu it has 1920x1080 59hz for the monitor setting in the rift. Is this normal?

Also with the rift on I can see the edges inside and really ruins the immersion. It almost feels like my plastic google cardboard I got on amazon for $10. I thought my peripheral vision would be more. It feels like I have goggles on and need to really turn my head to see left or right, I thought I would just look left and right like in RL.

the game plays super smooth on my 1080p monitor but in game its really lagging and ruins the game. I played around with some settings but then everything looked terrible.

i dont want to be disappointing and will be working on this until I get it working great. I love this game and want the VR experience to be great.

rosko
07-12-2016, 16:33
I was hoping to have your experience with the rift and PCars. I bought the rift specifically for this. But I didnt have the same experience. The quality and experience wasnt at all what I thought it was going to be. i have a GTX1080 and 4790k. I just got it last night and havent had a ton of time to play with settings but there are a bunch of issues and questions that just baffle me.

jaggies everywhere: on my 1080p ips monitor everything looks amazing. when I threw the rift on it looks like an arcade screen from the 90's. Im all about retro but not with my project cars. I dont understand why when I go the settings menu it has 1920x1080 59hz for the monitor setting in the rift. Is this normal?

Also with the rift on I can see the edges inside and really ruins the immersion. It almost feels like my plastic google cardboard I got on amazon for $10. I thought my peripheral vision would be more. It feels like I have goggles on and need to really turn my head to see left or right, I thought I would just look left and right like in RL.

the game plays super smooth on my 1080p monitor but in game its really lagging and ruins the game. I played around with some settings but then everything looked terrible.

i dont want to be disappointing and will be working on this until I get it working great. I love this game and want the VR experience to be great.

I would try Assetto Corsa its a much better looking game in VR imo & performance is also better.

beetes_juice
07-12-2016, 20:39
I was hoping to have your experience with the rift and PCars. I bought the rift specifically for this. But I didnt have the same experience. The quality and experience wasnt at all what I thought it was going to be. i have a GTX1080 and 4790k. I just got it last night and havent had a ton of time to play with settings but there are a bunch of issues and questions that just baffle me.

jaggies everywhere: on my 1080p ips monitor everything looks amazing. when I threw the rift on it looks like an arcade screen from the 90's. Im all about retro but not with my project cars. I dont understand why when I go the settings menu it has 1920x1080 59hz for the monitor setting in the rift. Is this normal?

Also with the rift on I can see the edges inside and really ruins the immersion. It almost feels like my plastic google cardboard I got on amazon for $10. I thought my peripheral vision would be more. It feels like I have goggles on and need to really turn my head to see left or right, I thought I would just look left and right like in RL.

the game plays super smooth on my 1080p monitor but in game its really lagging and ruins the game. I played around with some settings but then everything looked terrible.

i dont want to be disappointing and will be working on this until I get it working great. I love this game and want the VR experience to be great.

That dosen't sound right. I'd check your settings and also the VR section of the forum - here (http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/forumdisplay.php?139-Virtual-Reality-Devices-Support). If you don't want to fiddle might be worth letting nvidia experience optimize it for VR and test.

Also, when paused you can play around with the VR settings to improve view. Not 100% sure off top of head but hit pause and should see VR options.

John Hargreaves
08-12-2016, 09:24
Also with the rift on I can see the edges inside and really ruins the immersion. It almost feels like my plastic google cardboard I got on amazon for $10. I thought my peripheral vision would be more. It feels like I have goggles on and need to really turn my head to see left or right, I thought I would just look left and right like in RL.



Just on this small point, it does take some getting used to, but if you imagine you are wearing a race helmet, it actually improves the sense of immersion, for me at least. I think we are a generation or two away from 180deg fov in any headset. Also the resolution and jaggies; compared to a monitor, VR is nowhere near the definition, but you soon forget that once you've been playing a while. You maybe need to give yourself time to adjust to what is quite a new (and first gen) way of viewing a game. Stick with it, I'm sure you'll be happy with the Rift.

dlyte
08-12-2016, 13:27
That dosen't sound right. I'd check your settings and also the VR section of the forum - here. If you don't want to fiddle might be worth letting nvidia experience optimize it for VR and test.

Also, when paused you can play around with the VR settings to improve view. Not 100% sure off top of head but hit pause and should see VR options.



you were totally correct! I said I wasnt going to give up and I didnt. I watched a youtube video of a brit breaking down his Project Cars settings and explaining why. Perfect video, so I did exactly as he stated and had 90 fps with overhead and it looked amazing. I also tested downsampling to 2 and was getting super low FPS (23) but looked sooooooo good. I was getting sick after a few races so I switched it to 1 and was getting around 45. The performance overlay window is so helpful with FPS from the oculus tool. Now that the settings are dialed in I raced a few cars out of my class with the FRS and smoked 2 RUF's newer ones. The immersion is so incredible that I can actually see the car start to slide or drift and allows me reaction time to correct, vs a monitor I would have spun out (as I drive really aggressive)

And to top it off I havent even setup my wheel yet!

dlyte
08-12-2016, 13:31
Just on this small point, it does take some getting used to, but if you imagine you are wearing a race helmet, it actually improves the sense of immersion, for me at least. I think we are a generation or two away from 180deg fov in any headset. Also the resolution and jaggies; compared to a monitor, VR is nowhere near the definition, but you soon forget that once you've been playing a while. You maybe need to give yourself time to adjust to what is quite a new (and first gen) way of viewing a game. Stick with it, I'm sure you'll be happy with the Rift.

Yeah I can see that. But once the 180 deg FOV is here it will surely be amazing. I did a few races and really got immersed in the action. its incredible when you get up close to another car, or go for the inside and see the other car coming close and reacting to avoid collision, truly wonderful!

John Hargreaves
08-12-2016, 13:44
You should also watch a replay in the rift, you can stand up and stick your head out of the sunroof while you relive all the driving god moves you made. I'm already saving up for CV2 or 3 or whatever is going to have the same definition as my monitor, but in full VR. Glad you're getting sorted.

Edit: It's also very cool driving a single seater and leaning slightly out of the cockpit to see your wheel clip the kerb, totally impossible in 2D but very satisfying in VR.

MaximusN
08-12-2016, 14:49
You should also watch a replay in the rift, you can stand up and stick your head out of the sunroof while you relive all the driving god moves you made. I'm already saving up for CV2 or 3 or whatever is going to have the same definition as my monitor, but in full VR. Glad you're getting sorted.

Edit: It's also very cool driving a single seater and leaning slightly out of the cockpit to see your wheel clip the kerb, totally impossible in 2D but very satisfying in VR.

Or in a (offline!!! ;) )race just park your car on the inside of the corner and step out of your chair(through the bodywork of the car :P), to see all your opponents race by. Don't lean on the roof of your car though... :D

GrimeyDog
11-12-2016, 19:38
I Agree 100% VR is definitly a Game Changer!!! I bougt the Oculus to try it out...Holiday Shopping Rules Rock!!! you can Return any item for a Full Refund up until Jan!!!...
Its a bit of a Graphics Down curve when your used to playing in 4k but the Immersion factor that VR adds is just unparalled!!! Its hard to go back to playing on a TV Screen Now.

No Way is the Oculus Goung Back!!! Im Totally Hooked on it!!! @47yrs old im reliving the Joy of My first Atari 2600 10!!! as it was mentioned VR is still just in its infancy!!! Holy Crap if it gets any better i will end up Unemployed and Divorced!!!! i Never want to leave the Man Kave!!!

VR is Really working for Me... Im .5xx faster on My Fastest Tracks!!! Playing on a TV i used to have to be in the Zone to get a 1:22.xxx at Laguna Seca im Breaking the 1:22.xxx mark with Ease Now.... Watkings GP using a TV i was lapping 1:44.xxx with VR im Lapoing Low 1:43.xxx and Can Break the 1:42.xxx with No problem using Stock/Default Suspension.

mr_belowski
11-12-2016, 21:16
Awesome innit. I've just had a 2 hour Doom 3 session (RB mod with DoomBFG) and am shaking like a sh!tting dog right now. Nothing comes close to the 'being there' feeling of VR. Driving race cars is a perfect use of the technology. Being chased around a nightmarish wrecked Mars base by fcked up demons is most definitely *not* a fun way to spend an evening :upset:

GrimeyDog
11-12-2016, 23:11
Im looking for a good horror game to play in VR... I wish dead space was VR Ready...That would be a awesome VR Horror game!!!

cluck
12-12-2016, 08:51
I posted something on the WMD2 forum about VR and I'm going to re-post/rephrase part of it here.

The way I look at it is, traditional monitors give you no depth clues so every corner becomes an exercise in "this is the point to brake, this is when to turn in, this is how much you turn the wheel, this is when you get on the throttle, this is where you will exit the corner". With VR, you 'feel' the corner approaching, so you brake accordingly. You then instinctively look through the corner to your exit point and you drive towards that point. You correct the car in real time, just like a real racing driver does, making tiny adjustments to the steering and throttle, to get you to that exit point you are concentrating on. You might start picking up visual clues later, to remind you where you started braking, but your first instinct is natural.

That's what VR allows, it strips away the need to learn how to drive a sim, it leaves you free to just drive.

I've said it many times, in the more than 2 years I've had my DK2, I would never go back to driving on a monitor again. Not even 3 screens or an entirely enclosed screen globe (if such a thing exists). Nothing puts you in the seat like VR.

Technology will improve and we'll get to a point where we have 4K (or higher) resolution per eye at 90fps in all conditions. Add in the ability to operate the in-car switches (this is a VERY distant hope, given the huge amount of work required, but I'm sure we'll see it one day) and maybe some vape devices that eject tyre smoke smells and/or the smells of the cars you are in (leather for road cars, grease and oil for a racecar!) and you truly are as close to the sensations of driving as it's possible to get.

John Hargreaves
12-12-2016, 11:48
Technology will improve and we'll get to a point where we have 4K (or higher) resolution per eye at 90fps in all conditions. Add in the ability to operate the in-car switches (this is a VERY distant hope, given the huge amount of work required, but I'm sure we'll see it one day) and maybe some vape devices that eject tyre smoke smells and/or the smells of the cars you are in (leather for road cars, grease and oil for a racecar!) and you truly are as close to the sensations of driving as it's possible to get.

A lot of the flight sims are using clickable cockpits with every last switch and system being simulated and functional, so it's certainly do-able. The single plane modules are more expensive than race sim DLC, but you do get much more for your money. pCars cockpits are as good as anything in the race sim business, but the level of simulation going in in the likes of DCS World are really at the cutting edge of the simulator's art, both in terms of accuracy, graphics and function. In VR they tend to have a mouse look fixed to the centre viewpoint, then a click of a mouse or controller button to operate.

Cars are a lot less complex to simulate, so it's bound to happen that one day we get to operate the radio and turn off the TC switch from inside the cockpit etc, it's only a matter of time.

GrimeyDog
12-12-2016, 15:58
Question... Is it possible that VR will work with SLI??? Wouldn't that give More Power for better Graphics

John Hargreaves
12-12-2016, 20:09
You would imagine with two separate displays, each with a slightly different image, VR and SLI could be a match made in heaven. That is based on zero knowledge however, just an overactive imagination.

teamski
15-12-2016, 17:09
Well, I have had my CV1 for a week now and I am still over the friggin' moon. VR is most definitely the future in simulation. I mean really! I almost cried when playing a replay of a Clio Cup race next to the driver at night. You are IN the car. You guys already know that anybody that has raced in VR cannot relay the impact it has on the mind and body. There is nothing that can match crashing your FG1000 car and getting out of your office chair to watch the rest of the race standing next to the jersey barrier. Speechless!!! There is no going back....ever.

Sure, the resolution brings me back to the good ole' Pentium 2 days, but so what. Things have changed so radically from when I first installed my 3.5" floppies for World Circuit in my Amiga! Sports Car GT furthered that trek where I joined my first offline racing championship (GTIC). And now, we are getting as close as you ever will to the real thing. Just imagine what 5 years will bring!

Absolutely friggin' incredible.

-Ski

cluck
15-12-2016, 17:58
You like it then? Sorry, couldn't quite work out whether your post was positive or negative :D ;) :p.

It's good fun isn't it!

Sankyo
19-12-2016, 09:32
I keep reading about the resolution being rather bad, even though the display is 2160x1200 pixels so better than a regular HD display. With what kind of resolution would you compare it on a normal screen, say, 3 feet away from you? 640x480? Worse?

cluck
19-12-2016, 10:38
I keep reading about the resolution being rather bad, even though the display is 2160x1200 pixels so better than a regular HD display. With what kind of resolution would you compare it on a normal screen, say, 3 feet away from you? 640x480? Worse?It's like this Remco. Stick your face right up to a 1080p monitor (or large television) and you'll get a better idea of what it looks like :). It's one of those things that you have to see to really understand. However, it matters not a jot (for me, at least) once you start driving.

Remember how, in ye olde days, we used to think games looked amazing, yet we look back on them now and find it comical to think they were "lifelike" graphics? Our minds were "filling in the blanks" and creating a virtual world more vividly than we are actually seeing with our eyes. That's as true today, especially in VR, as it was then :).

On a purely aesthetic stand, VR loses out to traditional monitors, massively. If you want to just "stand and stare", VR will disappoint. Get the car rolling and you get lost in the immersion, never more so than in the heat of a battle.

Did I mention that I quite like VR? :D

GrimeyDog
19-12-2016, 12:40
i dont think the resolution is that bad... its No worse than going back to 1080p after you get used to playing in 2160.

as noted in above post once you get going the Immersion completely takes over and you forget all about the lower resolution.... I find it really hard to go back to using a Monitor/TV after Racing in VR.

gp20
20-12-2016, 03:49
Me think that you need 2k by eye which is doable with actual graphic cards if you consider that only one picture is calculated the second is an extrapolation of the first one.
Unfortunatly it seems that steam locks the resolution to oculus and htc resolution.

Sankyo
20-12-2016, 07:47
Me think that you need 2k by eye which is doable with actual graphic cards if you consider that only one picture is calculated the second is an extrapolation of the first one.

:confused: Extrapolation? Both pictures have slightly different viewpoints and with that different viewing angles so each picture needs to be rendered separately as reflections etc. can/will all be different.

mr_belowski
20-12-2016, 09:50
double post (yes, I'm a muppet)

mr_belowski
20-12-2016, 09:51
I think Oculus are working on 'partial-monoscopy' at the moment - as some of the image is (practically) exactly the same for each eye (despite the slightly different view ports), they can minimise the amount of rendering needed for the 2nd eye's view port by reusing stuff that's far enough away to be unchanged. Which is a clever solution.

GrimeyDog
20-12-2016, 15:19
I think Oculus are working on 'partial-monoscopy' at the moment - as some of the image is (practically) exactly the same for each eye (despite the slightly different view ports), they can minimise the amount of rendering needed for the 2nd eye's view port by reusing stuff that's far enough away to be unchanged. Which is a clever solution.

Yes...Agree... i think thats that AsyncronouseSpace warp thing... But How ever they are managing to do it its working Great:yes:... Im really enjoying Oculus rift...Faster Lap times by .750 on My fastest tracks, Great immersion and due to the Visiual Depth perception Its Much easier to be Consistant.

D-Ther
28-12-2016, 14:06
i did order the vive this week end, did get it ysterday, and since i enjoy it very much :) :)

Pcars is smooth, and the VR really add immersion to it, you can see way better your line, your limit, other car, etc. The VR add a lot more control over the car, since you have a better inderstanding to where you want to go :)

Did try Elite too (very fast, i wait for my Hotas to come) and the first time you warp is... whoaaaaaaaa. and i did have a lot of fun with The Lab (sharpshooter with the Bow :) )

The harder in the beginning is when you take out the vive, the return to reality is harsh in the beginning ^^

John Hargreaves
28-12-2016, 19:56
If you are getting a HOTAS, I can recommend Aerofly FS2. I just got it in the Steam sale, and IMO it's currently the best VR flying sim for fps, smoothness, detail and overall feel. It's still early access so it's a bit rough around the edges, and isn't quite as deep a sim as DCS etc, but it has great potential.

D-Ther
28-12-2016, 21:17
I have DCS, Elite and House of the dying sun to try with VR and Hotas, so i'm gonna need some 35h per day..... But thanks for the advice, gonna look into it ;)

Still have time, thrustmaster have a delay from 7 to 15 day of delivery on the warthog, so....

rosko
28-12-2016, 21:19
I keep reading about the resolution being rather bad, even though the display is 2160x1200 pixels so better than a regular HD display. With what kind of resolution would you compare it on a normal screen, say, 3 feet away from you? 640x480? Worse?

like an old crt monitor. Its best to view it for yourself as its not really how you would imagine. Even in low res if objects are in near field it can actually feel more defined than a 1080 monitor imo especially if you bump up the pixel density, as the 3d space adds clarity. Its only really a problem when things are so distant there are not enough pixels to define an objects shape.
I think more of a problem at the moment is the lack of quality in many games due to them being indy & also graphical glitches due to the gfx engine not quite working so well with VR.

John Hargreaves
29-12-2016, 08:19
I have DCS, Elite and House of the dying sun to try with VR and Hotas, so i'm gonna need some 35h per day..... But thanks for the advice, gonna look into it ;)

Still have time, thrustmaster have a delay from 7 to 15 day of delivery on the warthog, so....

You'll love DCS with that Warthog. Haven't tried Elite yet due to the aforementioned <35hr day, but it's in my Steam list for when I get bored of the new DCS Spitfire MkIX.