PDA

View Full Version : How does this simulator compare with rFactor and rFactor2?



HuntTheShunt
14-11-2016, 20:13
Lapsed multiplayer racing simulator enthusiast racing mainly rFactor 1.

Mahjik
14-11-2016, 21:17
This is a Project CARS forum, so people are going to say they like it. ;)

The bigger question is, what do you specifically like about rFactor1?

FS7
14-11-2016, 21:48
rFactor thread:
http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?48998-rFactor

rFactor 2 thread:
http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?49217-rFactor-2-anyone

You might get better info & comparisons in the topics above.

I haven't played rFactor2 yet, but I really enjoy PCars and rFactor1 is currently my favorite racing game.
PCars has dynamic weather in all of its track locations, much better graphics, but no mod support limits its replay value imo. It's the best racing experience one can get on console but it would be even better if it supported mods, especially tracks.
rFactor1 has a bit more intuitive controls with a Xbox360 controller than PCars imo, better open-wheel AI, mod support which provides much more content and replay value (I currently have 200 track locations in my install), more options for practicing and setting up races against AI especially if you know how to edit some files.

Synystr
15-11-2016, 16:23
This is not as much of a sim as rFactor. But it looks better. There you go.

Zpectre87
15-11-2016, 21:03
rFactor is usually harder. Why usually? Because it's highly dependent on the mod you play, as well as how much the modding team believes a race car should be overly complicated to drive.

Personally, I've never liked the interpretation of various cars in rFactor by some of the modding teams. I largely preferred GTR2 to Endurance Series mod, and GT Legends as well as Power & Glory to HistoriX.

rFactor is still fun as a game, but, as a sim, it's obsolete compared to the alternatives we have now. It does not simulate many things we have in today's sims, like different track conditions and turbo model. gMotor2's swan song is Automobilista, which I've seen many people praise, but it's simply too expensive for what it is, going for higher prices than both Assetto Corsa and Project Cars, while not offering much else beyond a different experience as well as running on a dated engine. Truth be told, however, Automobilista has far more effort put into it than vanilla rFactor, since all ISI sells you is basically a game engine, with content shamed by most of its contemporaries. The tracks Blimey! did for GTR2 back in 2006 still hold very well visually today, whereas the rFactor tracks are plagued with inconsistencies.

Therefore, I believe pCARS is superior to rFactor, which wasn't even the best among its contemporaries, but I can't say anything of rFactor 2 as I don't intend to play it.

rocho
15-11-2016, 23:20
This is not as much of a sim as rFactor. But it looks better. There you go.
And here we go again!
Please, elaborate...Oh, never mind, I give up.

Synystr
15-11-2016, 23:39
And here we go again!
Please, elaborate...Oh, never mind, I give up.

I mean... its true. PCARS doesn't have:

- A great tire model with animated deformation (you can't flat spot the tires (the vibrating you get when the tire is used up isn't flat spotting), tires stay hot for waaay to long, there isn't any graining)
- A real aerodynamics model that has ground effect and aero push capabilities (or the ability to accidentally emulate the Mercedes Le Mans flip due to air getting under the car)
- Proper track evolution that has REAL rubbering in instead of scripted on the racing line, or even a drying line in the wet
- player controlled pitstops with speed limits and starting the session from the garage
- player controlled formation laps
- sharing setups within the game
- chassis flex
- a proper flag system
- a safety car
- pitstops that account for the car your driving (F1 pitstops can change tires and add fuel at the same time for example)
- rules for said cars ( proper DRS implementation instead of being able to use it whenever you want )

That's all i can think of right now.

I don't expect to get any where with this because I'm debating with a person who has a vested interest in this game but you asked me to elaborate... so I did.

Mahjik
15-11-2016, 23:49
So, you are saying nothing but rFactor2 is a sim?

Synystr
16-11-2016, 00:01
So, you are saying nothing but rFactor2 is a sim?

No, racing games exist on a gradient from arcade to sim. Let me illustrate.


Arcade----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Sim

^-----------------------------------------^---------------------------^---------------------^-------------------^----------------^--------^-----------^
M K ----------------------------------- NFS-------------------------F1 20##-------------Dirt 3-------------PCARS------------AC------GPL/rF-----Commercial F1 team level simulator software (which usually is based on rFactor funny enough)

Legend

MK - Mario Kart
NFS - Need for speed _________
F1 20## - Codemasters F1 games
GPL - Grand Prix Legends
rF - rFactor

Mahjik
16-11-2016, 00:40
level simulator software (which usually is based on rFactor funny enough)


This is not true. While the isiMotor engine is sold to professional teams, it's used as a graphics engine with professional teams plugging in their own physics/tire simulations. That and F1 teams do not use rF Pro, but there are professional racing teams that do use the rF Pro framework. That is really a separate product from rFactor the PC sim.

As far as your original list, the only piece of software which has those is rF2 (even if it executes them poorly). So you are saying AC and iRacing are not sims. It's not really down to the features list, but how well you can implement those features. Codemaster's F1 series had flats and tire punctures, but they were random and not tied to anything related to driving. That's an example of simply listing features rather than how well they are implemented is not a good approach.

Zpectre87
16-11-2016, 01:06
I mean... its true. PCARS doesn't have:

- A great tire model with animated deformation (you can't flat spot the tires (the vibrating you get when the tire is used up isn't flat spotting), tires stay hot for waaay to long, there isn't any graining)
- A real aerodynamics model that has ground effect and aero push capabilities (or the ability to accidentally emulate the Mercedes Le Mans flip due to air getting under the car)
- Proper track evolution that has REAL rubbering in instead of scripted on the racing line, or even a drying line in the wet
- player controlled pitstops with speed limits and starting the session from the garage
- player controlled formation laps
- sharing setups within the game
- chassis flex
- a proper flag system
- a safety car
- pitstops that account for the car your driving (F1 pitstops can change tires and add fuel at the same time for example)
- rules for said cars ( proper DRS implementation instead of being able to use it whenever you want )

That's all i can think of right now.

I don't expect to get any where with this because I'm debating with a person who has a vested interest in this game but you asked me to elaborate... so I did.

I expect the physics experts to reply to the physics points, but when it comes to gameplay, I can understand some of the developmental choices:

1) Player-controlled pitstops: I don't really mind those because, contrary to popular belief, they're really hard to simulate. IIRC F1 2010 had a terrible system: the car control was automatic but you had to brake before parking the car to avoid running over the mechanic and losing time. The only times I miss them are when racing on a track where the game controls the car where it shouldn't (like at Zolder).

2) Player-controlled formation laps: This would've been useful because in pCARS sometimes there's no advantage to starting on pole if the race has a rolling start. Especially problematic when driving cars with manual transmission. But it's not a game breaker to me.

3) Proper flag system: pCARS ships with many, many series. It's impossible to accurately simulate them all.

4) Safety car: Not as easy to add as you think. If you desire accuracy, you'll want the safety car to be the proper car used by the series. GTR2 simulated a real series and featured a Maserati lookalike safety car. pCARS would need to license quite a few different cars depending on the series, which would be a waste of resources IMO. Then again, it'd be nice to see in a sequel.

5) Different pitstops depending on the car: The main focus of the game is the WEC. Also, in the open wheel series you're not allowed to refuel your car anyway (Formula A uses the 2013 F1 rules which don't allow refueling).

6) Car-specific rules: DRS can't be properly simulated for a simple reason: this game is not an official F1 game! Formula A races in many, many tracks which are not part of the F1 calendar and do not have marked DRS zones. The system SMS adopted was a compromise, and a good one at that since you're not really supposed to happily use DRS whenever you want. Using DRS at Blanchimont in Spa for example is suicide (even though some F1 drivers have tried it with some success when DRS was free to use during quali).

Synystr
16-11-2016, 01:35
I expect the physics experts to reply to the physics points, but when it comes to gameplay, I can understand some of the developmental choices:

1) Player-controlled pitstops: I don't really mind those because, contrary to popular belief, they're really hard to simulate. IIRC F1 2010 had a terrible system: the car control was automatic but you had to brake before parking the car to avoid running over the mechanic and losing time. The only times I miss them are when racing on a track where the game controls the car where it shouldn't (like at Zolder).

2) Player-controlled formation laps: This would've been useful because in pCARS sometimes there's no advantage to starting on pole if the race has a rolling start. Especially problematic when driving cars with manual transmission. But it's not a game breaker to me.

3) Proper flag system: pCARS ships with many, many series. It's impossible to accurately simulate them all.

4) Safety car: Not as easy to add as you think. If you desire accuracy, you'll want the safety car to be the proper car used by the series. GTR2 simulated a real series and featured a Maserati lookalike safety car. pCARS would need to license quite a few different cars depending on the series, which would be a waste of resources IMO. Then again, it'd be nice to see in a sequel.

5) Different pitstops depending on the car: The main focus of the game is the WEC. Also, in the open wheel series you're not allowed to refuel your car anyway (Formula A uses the 2013 F1 rules which don't allow refueling).

6) Car-specific rules: DRS can't be properly simulated for a simple reason: this game is not an official F1 game! Formula A races in many, many tracks which are not part of the F1 calendar and do not have marked DRS zones. The system SMS adopted was a compromise, and a good one at that since you're not really supposed to happily use DRS whenever you want. Using DRS at Blanchimont in Spa for example is suicide (even though some F1 drivers have tried it with some success when DRS was free to use during quali).

1) Pitstops aren't hard to "simulate"... In Automobilista for example, you drive up to the pit limit line, brake, slap on the limiter, drive to your pit box, stop, the crew gets to work then drop you back on the ground, you leave and disengage the limiter. Easy.

2) Not a game breaker, no... but one thing rFactor does that this doesn't (which is what this post was originally about).

3) Proper flags like sector yellows, full course yellows, blues, slow car, and mandatory pit for damage is not impossible.

4) Safety Cars don't need to be licensed... They can just take a car they have and add lights. And at this point, I think you're making excuses on behalf of SMS. Plenty of games have safety cars.

5) You can refuel in Formula A pitstops... lol

6) DRS zones apply to the DTM Merc as well. The DRS in this game nulls out because everyone can use it whenever they want... defeating the purpose it was implemented for: A driver that is 1 second or less behind another can use it to pass lol.


Physics! That reminds me! Automobilista, which runs on a modified rFactor engine, uses a 720 hZ physics tick rate. The game checks what your tires are doing 720 times a second. This allows for smaller incremental movements of the rubber and the suspension which creates a smoother impact arc.... if that makes sense.

Basically, its the difference between 30 fps and 60 fps but coming up through your suspension. You can feel the grip much more and the tolerance between biting and spinning the wheel is much much smaller.

Synystr
16-11-2016, 01:54
So you are saying AC and iRacing are not sims. It's not really down to the features list, but how well you can implement those features. Codemaster's F1 series had flats and tire punctures, but they were random and not tied to anything related to driving. That's an example of simply listing features rather than how well they are implemented is not a good approach.

Nooo... omg. Clearly you don't understand...

At this point we are arguing semantics.

The FACT is that rFactor, iRacing, Grand Prix Legends and Automobilista SIMULATE more things than PCARS.

PCARS looks better.

True flatspotting:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZR2YRpTAp4



You can have an opinion or personal preference or whatever but you can't deny facts.

Synystr
16-11-2016, 01:56
Another fact:

AMS sounds better than all of them.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fuj91PS6X_k

Mahjik
16-11-2016, 01:58
The FACT is that rFactor, iRacing, Grand Prix Legends and Automobilista SIMULATE more things than PCARS.

So you are saying more features makes a better sim? Doesn't matter how well they implement those features, just the fact they they exist? Nice..



You can have an opinion or personal preference or whatever but you can't deny facts.

I never said my opinion. I'm trying to clarify how you are "judging" sims.

Zpectre87
16-11-2016, 02:14
1) Pitstops aren't hard to "simulate"... In Automobilista for example, you drive up to the pit limit line, brake, slap on the limiter, drive to your pit box, stop, the crew gets to work then drop you back on the ground, you leave and disengage the limiter. Easy.

2) Not a game breaker, no... but one thing rFactor does that this doesn't (which is what this post was originally about).

3) Proper flags like sector yellows, full course yellows, blues, slow car, and mandatory pit for damage is not impossible.

4) Safety Cars don't need to be licensed... They can just take a car they have and add lights. And at this point, I think you're making excuses on behalf of SMS. Plenty of games have safety cars.

5) You can refuel in Formula A pitstops... lol

6) DRS zones apply to the DTM Merc as well. The DRS in this game nulls out because everyone can use it whenever they want... defeating the purpose it was implemented for: A driver that is 1 second or less behind another can use it to pass lol.


Physics! That reminds me! Automobilista, which runs on a modified rFactor engine, uses a 720 hZ physics tick rate. The game checks what your tires are doing 720 times a second. This allows for smaller incremental movements of the rubber and the suspension which creates a smoother impact arc.... if that makes sense.

Basically, its the difference between 30 fps and 60 fps but coming up through your suspension. You can feel the grip much more and the tolerance between biting and spinning the wheel is much much smaller.

1) The thing is, pit stops in sim racing (and gaming in general) are still too "perfect". Lots of things can go wrong in a pit stop, and no game currently on the market simulates them all, because these are ultimately games, and people don't like the randomness that comes with the possibility of botched pit stops.

2) Which, in the grand scheme of things, is not as important as you're making it to be.

3) pCARS does have blues... Try racing a multiclass race in a slow class, you'll get them all the time. I don't have much experience with yellow flags in the game, but I do know there are at least sector yellows.

4) They must. And each series has their own. Either way, I think it wasn't until F1 2015 that the Codemasters F1 games had a safety car, so it's not "plenty" of games.

5) Nope, you cannot refuel in the Formula A career races. It's in the rules. You get disqualified if you do that. You can't even refuel during qualifying IIRC (as opposed to other series). With your know-it-all attitude, I'd expect you to know at least this much.

6) This is probably the point that makes the most sense. But then, Formula A is far from being a proper simulation of F1 anyways, and it's probably not even intended to be. Qualifying rules aren't the same (there's no Q1-Q2-Q3), tire choice isn't the same (you aren't forced to use primes/hards in the race), everyone races in equal cars, and the DRS is there more because the real cars have them than because of the actual rules. I'm not even sure how much of F1 can be simulated without raising legal concerns... Which has never been an issue with rFactor because the "customize, control, connect" aspect of the game has always been ISI's sly excuse to sidestep license requirements.

Bolded part because, if you're going to put it this way, then it's not worth arguing with you... I'm allowed to have a different opinion than you and support it with the arguments I feel are valid. Your kind of attitude is exactly what put me off rFactor and Assetto Corsa. I don't like the atmosphere and the elitism in their communities, simple as that.

Synystr
16-11-2016, 02:15
So you are saying more features makes a better sim? Doesn't matter how well they implement those features, just the fact they they exist? Nice..

For a mod, you like to troll. lol

Of course they implemented these features well... that's why I'm bringing them up.

Diamond_Eyes
16-11-2016, 15:00
I'm with you on 6) DRS

DRS should not able able to work unless 1 sec behind another car during a race.

HuntTheShunt
16-11-2016, 19:21
This is the type of rFactor 1 race I used to race in online.

I am not allowed to post links to content; therefore, instead of a link to the youtube here is the google search criteria to see what I am talking about :)
youtube Varjanta F1 1982 Round 01 South Africa GP - Kyalami Leonardo de souza

Synystr
16-11-2016, 19:34
4) They must. And each series has their own. Either way, I think it wasn't until F1 2015 that the Codemasters F1 games had a safety car, so it's not "plenty" of games.

5) Nope, you cannot refuel in the Formula A career races. It's in the rules. You get disqualified if you do that. You can't even refuel during qualifying IIRC (as opposed to other series). With your know-it-all attitude, I'd expect you to know at least this much.

Bolded part because, if you're going to put it this way, then it's not worth arguing with you... I'm allowed to have a different opinion than you and support it with the arguments I feel are valid. Your kind of attitude is exactly what put me off rFactor and Assetto Corsa. I don't like the atmosphere and the elitism in their communities, simple as that.

https://youtu.be/MChyGvAQhJ4?t=18m16s

Forgive this guy because he overtakes under yellows and its telling him to give the place back, but what automobilista did was take their licensed Camaro and slap lights on it. They use it for all classes.

Now, which is better? Not having a safety car because it would be a pain to license all the different safety cars? Or having ONE safety car that works for all the classes... I think you know which is the right answer and the fact that you think that you need to license every safety car to use for its specific class is insane lol. THAT'S why I'm saying you're making excuses that are ridiculous in order to NOT admit that SMS could easily implement a safety car.

Video argues all your other points.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CgNEeQuEwz4

C3PO
16-11-2016, 19:36
This is not true. While the isiMotor engine is sold to professional teams, it's used as a graphics engine with professional teams plugging in their own physics/tire simulations. That and F1 teams do not use rF Pro, but there are professional racing teams that do use the rF Pro framework. That is really a separate product from rFactor the PC sim.

As far as your original list, the only piece of software which has those is rF2 (even if it executes them poorly). So you are saying AC and iRacing are not sims. It's not really down to the features list, but how well you can implement those features. Codemaster's F1 series had flats and tire punctures, but they were random and not tied to anything related to driving. That's an example of simply listing features rather than how well they are implemented is not a good approach.

They do plug in their own data - but the physics engines are the same. Well, rF2 mainly it is anyway.

Having said that, some F1 teams build their own software from the ground up. The end result is not dissimilar to what we all enjoy every day.

Mahjik
16-11-2016, 22:19
Of course they implemented these features well... that's why I'm bringing them up.

I would disagree..

However, the way I judge sims is not based on how many features they implement, but how well they implemented what they attempted to... There are development teams who may only focus on one platform, small developers who don't have many resources, and large developers that have lots of money to spend. With this, you'll have varying "features" being implemented per release.

I prefer to judge on the behavior of the tires, suspension, chassis and aero models.

Mahjik
16-11-2016, 22:23
They do plug in their own data - but the physics engines are the same. Well, rF2 mainly it is anyway.

rF Pro is not the same product.

Zpectre87
16-11-2016, 22:44
https://youtu.be/MChyGvAQhJ4?t=18m16s

Forgive this guy because he overtakes under yellows and its telling him to give the place back, but what automobilista did was take their licensed Camaro and slap lights on it. They use it for all classes.

Now, which is better? Not having a safety car because it would be a pain to license all the different safety cars? Or having ONE safety car that works for all the classes... I think you know which is the right answer and the fact that you think that you need to license every safety car to use for its specific class is insane lol. THAT'S why I'm saying you're making excuses that are ridiculous in order to NOT admit that SMS could easily implement a safety car.

If they could implement it so easily then why has Codemasters always had huge trouble implementing it? You can find threads on the Codemasters forums detailing a variety of odd behavior with the SC in the games it appears in, to the point they removed it at some point and only brought it back in the latest game. Things don't just need to be there, they need to behave nicely as well. Therefore, I do believe Mahjik has a point.

I agree that one of the road cars in the game could serve as a stand in for the SC, though.


Video argues all your other points.

Firstly, I've never argued about the flat spotting. You're putting words in my mouth.

Second, sorry but you're being dishonest with your argument that you can refuel in the Formula A races... You can certainly do that... In Quick Race. In Quick Race you can do almost anything as there are no rules beyond warnings for corner cutting. Why don't you try doing that in the career mode instead where it says in the rules you can't refuel during the race nor qualifying? Nope, you sidestep and bend my words to suit your agenda. :)

Besides, why would I want to refuel during a Formula A race when it's based on post-refuel ban F1 rules? Aren't you so strict about simulation that you're overlooking this small detail? ;) You complain about the inaccuracy of DRS (which is indeed a valid complaint) but you also want F1 pit stops in the vein of pre-2010 rules when there's no applicable series in the game to use them with.

Of course, this game would greatly benefit from a custom championship tool you could establish the rules with, which some of its competitors do have. I know all gMotor2 sims (with the exception of GT Legends, which features a career mode) are particularly customizable when it comes to custom championships.

Synystr
17-11-2016, 02:28
If they could implement it so easily then why has Codemasters always had huge trouble implementing it? Things don't just need to be there, they need to behave nicely as well. Therefore, I do believe Mahjik has a point.

I agree that one of the road cars in the game could serve as a stand in for the SC, though.

Firstly, I've never argued about the flat spotting. You're putting words in my mouth.

Second, sorry but you're being dishonest with your argument that you can refuel in the Formula A races... You can certainly do that... In Quick Race. In Quick Race you can do almost anything as there are no rules beyond warnings for corner cutting. Why don't you try doing that in the career mode instead where it says in the rules you can't refuel during the race nor qualifying? Nope, you sidestep and bend my words to suit your agenda. :)

Besides, why would I want to refuel during a Formula A race when it's based on post-refuel ban F1 rules? Aren't you so strict about simulation that you're overlooking this small detail? ;) You complain about the inaccuracy of DRS (which is indeed a valid complaint) but you also want F1 pit stops in the vein of pre-2010 rules when there's no applicable series in the game to use them with.

Of course, this game would greatly benefit from a custom championship tool you could establish the rules with, which some of its competitors do have. I know all gMotor2 sims (with the exception of GT Legends, which features a career mode) are particularly customizable when it comes to custom championships.

So, because codemasters can't figure it out, everyone should just give up and not try to put in a safety car?

Flat spotting was for the people who said there was flat spotting.

Secondly, no one races career... lets get real. And I said originally that the F1 cars should be able to recieve tires and fuel at the same time. And fuel increases lap time so its quicker to run a light fuel load, and since there's no way to police it... my league just allowed fuelling. Plus, how can you not allow fuelling when race distance is variable?

hkraft300
17-11-2016, 05:16
On a positive note: look at the fine points we're nit-picking. All the titles are great in their own respect and they're only getting better. Let's keep up this squabbling and demand more realism from our favourite(s) SIM devs.
Competition breeds excellence :)



Secondly, no one races career... lets get real.

Ooo, get your flame suit on mate!
pcars has a big solo career Player base..

Roger Prynne
17-11-2016, 10:08
Secondly, no one races career... lets get real.

Where did you get this information?
There are loads of people using career mode.... you just have to search through the forums to see that it's a very popular part of the game.... trust me I'm a moderator, and I see it all the time.

Zpectre87
17-11-2016, 14:04
So, because codemasters can't figure it out, everyone should just give up and not try to put in a safety car?

Nope, I'm saying that Codemasters is a much larger and better funded studio than any of the big sim players currently in the market. If they can't get it right in what is the official F1 game, it must not be that easy to do so.


Secondly, no one races career... lets get real.

That's not true at all. The pCARS MP playerbase is significant, but the vast majority of the userbase focuses on singleplayer.

It's a bit unfortunate that this game doesn't allow you to create custom cups, though. That'd be the icing on the cake, as Quick Race is very customizable.

Mahjik
17-11-2016, 14:05
That's not true at all. The pCARS MP playerbase is significant, but the vast majority of the userbase focuses on singleplayer.

Yep! There definitely was not 2 million online pCARS players. I would wager MP was less than 30% of the total sales.

Rambo_Commando
17-11-2016, 14:38
Nope, I'm saying that Codemasters is a much larger and better funded studio than any of the big sim players currently in the market. If they can't get it right in what is the official F1 game, it must not be that easy to do

The problem with Codemasters is that they employ the racing rejects of the game development world. Who else in their right mind would think it's a great idea to "remove the HUD, turn off assist, up the difficulty and call it a separate game mode. To me that's called changing settings in the options, not championship mode.

While all the games mentioned in this post have their plus and minus, Pcars is still be far the best overall package. And from the way everyone is talking about Pcars 2, I think the competition really has to up their game.

Synystr
17-11-2016, 14:41
MAN you guys pounced on the slightest mistake... that was intentional. It was like I painted myself in cows blood and jumped into a piranha tank at the local aquarium.

Sarcasms a dangerous thing, guys.

Even though this game, much like Arma 3, is CLEARLY best experienced in leagues... when the game isn't crashing or getting people stuck in garages.

hkraft300
17-11-2016, 14:44
Safety cars would be a great thing in solo modes. Especially if there's oval racing. It's an immersion thing, and adds drama on track. In real life when there's a serious incident it takes time to clear the track. In a SIM, slap some debris delay and poof! It magically disappears.
Besides, its also handy for really bad weather like pcars has, like heavy fog where visibility is dangerously (lol) poor and storm when the rain tyres struggle for grip. In MP my buddy who runs a league (and as race director of another) just calls safety car and the leader becomes the "safety car".
Rolling starts are a bit jerky in pcars. So instead the same race director in multi-class races dictates a formation lap from a standing start and the leader is the safety car.
Works well as long as everyone plays by the book.
Safety cars being a crucial factor in judging the quality of a SIM? I'm not sure.
Personally I prefer more accurate physics, car models, tyres, aero etc.
As for vehicle models, I remember Casey's "Physics of" threads where, the TS040 for example had limited data available because Toyota can't be giving away their secrets. Some DLC had great cad data made available to Casey's team. What do you do, in such circumstances?

There's many "bells and whistles" we can argue about. Animated tyre flex for example: aside from slow-mo replays, would you notice? And if you do, I don't think you're driving fast enough.
On that note: the Momo Slow-mo clips on YouTube are beautiful.

Zpectre87
17-11-2016, 14:54
As for vehicle models, I remember Casey's "Physics of" threads where, the TS040 for example had limited data available because Toyota can't be giving away their secrets. Some DLC had great cad data made available to Casey's team. What do you do, in such circumstances?

This being exactly the problem with every rFactor F1 mod made since the 2006 version of CTDP F1, and perhaps even including it. At some point I just said "screw it" and decided to do most of my F1 racing in the Codies' F1 series, because a poorly calibrated rFactor is no more realistic than that regardless of the game's guts.

The secrecy of LMP cars is Mulsanne's Corner's biggest claim to fame! They always take great photos of the cars on race weekend and before. Everyone likes to have a sneek peek into the cars and speculate about the projects.

Synystr
17-11-2016, 15:07
At some point I just said "screw it" and decided to do most of my F1 racing in the Codies' F1 series, because a poorly calibrated rFactor is no more realistic than that regardless of the game's guts.

Lol I rest my case

Mahjik
17-11-2016, 15:20
Even though this game, much like Arma 3, is CLEARLY best experienced in leagues... when the game isn't crashing or getting people stuck in garages.

For your own specific use case, yes. Many people do not enjoy racing online. There is no right or wrong, it's each individual's preference.

Synystr
17-11-2016, 15:27
For your own specific use case, yes. Many people do not enjoy racing online. There is no right or wrong, it's each individual's preference.

I don't know how anyone can have any fun with AI...

Mahjik
17-11-2016, 15:33
I don't know how anyone can have any fun with AI...

While I agree that the AI cannot replace a good league, there are not always (good) leagues which fit everyone's schedules. AI fill that gap (as well as the gap for those that just don't want to play with others which allows more impromptu use).

Zpectre87
17-11-2016, 20:10
Lol I rest my case

That's fine. :) If you'd had the experience I had with poor modern F1 mods for rFactor, many of which based on illegal conversions from Codemasters, you'd think the same. Applies to GT3 and LMP as well.

Not to mention most F1 mods are league edition so only useful online.

hkraft300
17-11-2016, 23:45
I don't know how anyone can have any fun with AI...

The AI are pretty good in this game though. Give it a go sometime, even as a tyre test or warm up session :) GT1/3/4 cars at about 85-90% AI.

Dresden
22-11-2016, 03:57
Secondly, no one races career... lets get real.

I agree with many of your points, Synystr, but not this one.

I would not buy a racer if it was multiplayer only, no matter how good the game was. I will always love the option to play some offline racing, whether single session or career.

Wait, does that mean I am a 'no one' or the 'only one?' :listening_headphone

MrTulip
23-11-2016, 07:13
I mean... its true. PCARS doesn't have:

- A great tire model with animated deformation (you can't flat spot the tires (the vibrating you get when the tire is used up isn't flat spotting), tires stay hot for waaay to long, there isn't any graining)


PCARS has flatspotting. Try BMW 2002 Turbo or Mustang 2+2, do some heavy locking of tires while braking. Then drive slowly and you can see in the car telemetry HUD and in actual car travel how the flatspotted tire dips and how corner of the car shudders a bit. This happens immediately you have flatspotted the tire so it is not any static vibration variable tied to the general health of the tires.
You also get a lot of overheating from the flatspotted tire when you drive fast with them, and eventually the tire bursts because of heat and stress it causes.

It is too bad this probably happens only with Faretti Superbelt tires in pCARS (AFAIK). Semantics and Mahjik's point about that it is not about features but how well you implement them goes both ways, so of course you can claim that since the series you'd like to play in pCARS does not simulate it (visibly enough or at all), pCARS is a lesser sim for you.

But when we are talking about capabilities of the engine, pCARS supports and has flatspotting.

Zpectre87
23-11-2016, 09:37
rFactor 2 also a victim of its business model (letting the players fill in the gaps we won't/can't fill)... Recently Enduracers released their mod for rF2 and opinion on it has been quite controversial. :) This came as no surprise to anyone who didn't buy into the hype even back in rF1. It does not matter how many features the engine supports if you leave it to people who are completely clueless about how a real car works.

So ATM, if you want to have any decent endurance racing in rF2, you must pay a third-party unrelated to the game's developers (URD) for a bunch of "fictional" cars which so happen to be 1:1 the real thing with just the names changed and no logos... A poor and (dare I say) illegal practice which unfortunately many people support.

t0daY
23-11-2016, 10:40
No offense Synstr (we drove couple times together in the RSR vs Pak'Cafan events) but if you are so convinced about Automobilista and that pCars is so bad in so many things why are you still here? Was a pain to read this thread here... Most of the people still keep forgetting that pCars1 was build out of nothing and with a very very small budget. Everybody knows that the game has his flaws, many not solved bugs and so on. Still it is quite amazing and impressive what SMS did. More to follow in pCars2 :p :) :)

** Can't say shit sorry! :D **

SlowBloke
23-11-2016, 11:29
I don't know how anyone can have any fun with AI...

Just some reasons that might apply to people that spring to mind:

Non reliable / poor internet connection
Driving standards not compatible for online (and before you say skill up some people have slower reaction time / eye sight / age / physical restriction issues)
Inability to concentrate for typical league race times
Lack of confidence to get involved
Inability to dedicate to the time slots
Desire to just pick up and play for 10 minutes

I could go on the point though is this product has options for many people and although none apply to you collectively they may impact sales significantly.

I would not be surprised if the minority are online league racers.

Doge
24-11-2016, 22:41
PCARS has flatspotting. Try BMW 2002 Turbo or Mustang 2+2, do some heavy locking of tires while braking. Then drive slowly and you can see in the car telemetry HUD and in actual car travel how the flatspotted tire dips and how corner of the car shudders a bit. This happens immediately you have flatspotted the tire so it is not any static vibration variable tied to the general health of the tires.
You also get a lot of overheating from the flatspotted tire when you drive fast with them, and eventually the tire bursts because of heat and stress it causes.

It is too bad this probably happens only with Faretti Superbelt tires in pCARS (AFAIK). Semantics and Mahjik's point about that it is not about features but how well you implement them goes both ways, so of course you can claim that since the series you'd like to play in pCARS does not simulate it (visibly enough or at all), pCARS is a lesser sim for you.

But when we are talking about capabilities of the engine, pCARS supports and has flatspotting.

That´s like saying I have a Ferrari because nothing stops me from somehow earning a ton of money and going to buy it.

I have played Project CARS since day 1 and at no point of no race/qualifying/practice session in all this time, with any car, in any track, I have picked a flatspot. All this talk of "grab this car, turn the wear multiplier to nine-thousand and then lock the brakes all the way from top speed to a stop, then you´ll notice a slight vibration" is nonsense. If you don´t get flatspots in normal conditions, that´s exactly the same as not having flatspots at all.

Mahjik
24-11-2016, 22:48
......

Different cars have different tires so he's explaining that flatspotting is enabled on the vintage sports car tires (which is correct). Originally, all of the tires had it during development but there was a late change that altered it (IIRC, it was a performance related change for the tire sampling level). It seems some of that crept in late on the vintage sports car tires with the Stanceworks cars.

poirqc
25-11-2016, 03:42
That´s like saying I have a Ferrari because nothing stops me from somehow earning a ton of money and going to buy it.

I have played Project CARS since day 1 and at no point of no race/qualifying/practice session in all this time, with any car, in any track, I have picked a flatspot. All this talk of "grab this car, turn the wear multiplier to nine-thousand and then lock the brakes all the way from top speed to a stop, then you´ll notice a slight vibration" is nonsense. If you don´t get flatspots in normal conditions, that´s exactly the same as not having flatspots at all.

It may have to do with my custom FFB settings, but i always run tire wear to real. On some cars, i have to babysit the tire so much it's not even funny. The bmw 2002, the ecort 1600, they'll flatspot almost right away. It's so disruptive on the steering wheel i need to change them or close the race altogether...

I almost posted a video once, to report a bug. I was wondering if i was driving too harshly or not. But i have to agree that it may happend to easily on some cars and not enough on others... It's a balancing act i guess.

hkraft300
25-11-2016, 06:18
Was there talk of flatspotting reduced in the WMD1 days because the ffb was getting a bit violent and worrysome on some people's wheels?

Synystr
25-11-2016, 08:06
No offense Synstr (we drove couple times together in the RSR vs Pak'Cafan events) but if you are so convinced about Automobilista and that pCars is so bad in so many things why are you still here? Was a pain to read this thread here... Most of the people still keep forgetting that pCars1 was build out of nothing and with a very very small budget. Everybody knows that the game has his flaws, many not solved bugs and so on. Still it is quite amazing and impressive what SMS did. More to follow in pCars2 :p :) :)

** Can't say shit sorry! :D **

A couple races? I got stuck in the garage at Le Mans remember (Thanks PCARS).

And I know how much you love to argue Manu, hope you liked the Toyota vs P30 result :).

But this thread was about how PCARS compares to other Sims. Being on the PCARS forum, we all know how that was gonna turn out if, like me, someone spoke out against the game. Bias is bias, especially coming from WMD members who have a vested interest in the game. I have upwards of 1000 hours in PCARS so I can criticise it if I want and as my league looks to the future, our time in PCARS is surely coming to an end. There are better sims out there in terms of game mechanics, even if they don't look as nice.

I didn't realize building a game from scratch was such a big deal. Jeez I wonder how everyone else does it.

The WMD model is fine idea but it creates a community, that when anything is criticized about their "perfect" game, you get replies filled with vitriol, piss, and vinegar, one could think that one took offence to their mother.

Synystr
25-11-2016, 08:09
Was there talk of flatspotting reduced in the WMD1 days because the ffb was getting a bit violent and worrysome on some people's wheels?

That isn't flattspotting. That's "mythical-end-of-tire-life" vibrations that has no base in reality. There is no flat spotting modelled in this game.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ZWeEoOxKKw This is flat spotting and proper tire wear (it is accelerated 100x)

https://youtu.be/CgNEeQuEwz4?t=2m48s Proof that flat spotting doesn't exist.

cluck
25-11-2016, 09:06
Being on the PCARS forum, we all know how that was gonna turn out if, like me, someone spoke out against the gameThe same is true of every other driving sim forum. The people that tend to stick around are the ones that like the game, most of the people that don't like the game just move on and play something else they enjoy.


(video removed to save space) Proof that flat spotting doesn't exist in the Formula A tyresAdded a very important caveat to your post.

Flat spotting categorically DOES exist in Project CARS but only on the vintage tyres.


If your time has come to an end with Project CARS then just leave. People saying "I've had enough" and then popping back to remind people that they've had enough, are like those people in real life that have a bit of a huff and say to their friends "OK, I'm going home", then slowly leave the room saying "I'm going, I'm not coming back". Then, after closing the door, and hearing everybody sigh with relief, they walk back in and say "I'm really going, don't try and stop me" :p

Mad Al
25-11-2016, 09:56
Was there talk of flatspotting reduced in the WMD1 days because the ffb was getting a bit violent and worrysome on some people's wheels?

Simple answer, yes..

flat spots are there, they are just toned down (a lot).. when a tyre locks the temperature at the sliding surface should go up considerably (flash heating) and the associated wear should go through the roof.. but the flash heating wear was toned down to stop the very major effects on FFB wheels. Now that is off the top of my head without going back and trying to find the discussion in amongst hundreds if not thousands of threads on the PC1 dev site (and I haven't had enough coffee yet).
There is no visual indication (same as there is no visual wear indication, no grass pickup and various other things that due to time/money/cpu/gpu constraints got dropped or never implemented)
So those saying the tyre can't do it, wrong.. there is a difference between unable to and reduced to the point of not being easily noticed.



That isn't flattspotting. That's "mythical-end-of-tire-life" vibrations that has no base in reality. There is no flat spotting modelled in this game.

....

No, that's what happen during DEVELOPMENT, when the doors were closed and not everyone got to see all the capabilities of the tyres, same as now when you may have no clue as to what is going on with PC2 development..
Flat spotting isn't "modelled" it's JUST a facet of tyre wear, and more specifically the very high wear rates on generally softer rubber in a race tyre, seen under the specific circumstance of a locked wheel and the associated high temperature at the tyre surface. If a tyre doesn't have extreme wear rates at high temperatures it won't flat spot.. in the same way an average road tyre doesn't turn into a threpenny bit if you lock up on the road..

At the end of the day, this is a game, it isn't perfect.. and frankly if you really need to argue the toss about one game against another, just play the other one.. if it's so much better.

LukeC
25-11-2016, 10:08
A couple races? I got stuck in the garage at Le Mans remember (Thanks PCARS).

And I know how much you love to argue Manu, hope you liked the Toyota vs P30 result :).

But this thread was about how PCARS compares to other Sims. Being on the PCARS forum, we all know how that was gonna turn out if, like me, someone spoke out against the game. Bias is bias, especially coming from WMD members who have a vested interest in the game. I have upwards of 1000 hours in PCARS so I can criticise it if I want and as my league looks to the future, our time in PCARS is surely coming to an end. There are better sims out there in terms of game mechanics, even if they don't look as nice.

I didn't realize building a game from scratch was such a big deal. Jeez I wonder how everyone else does it.

The WMD model is fine idea but it creates a community, that when anything is criticized about their "perfect" game, you get replies filled with vitriol, piss, and vinegar, one could think that one took offence to their mother.

I think its a mistake to think that anything can be perfect. Nothing is, including rfactor2, AC, iRacing and even Pcars.

I think everybody, or most people, know that, and that's one of the reasons why Pcars 2 is being developed with a lot of rewrites in the physics and rendering departments.

Personally I don't possess a personality type that easily gives in to fundamentalist type thinking, and I'm therefore able to enjoy many different sims for what they are.

I will say this though: there is something almost intangible about Pcars that really appeals to me. For example, yesterday I took the Aston martin lmp1 car for a spin at the old hockenheim and I somehow managed to hypnotise myself into thinking that I was driving it in real life, and I scared myself. I was literally scared for a few seconds before I told myself that what I was doing wasn't real. I never experienced this to this extent in any other sim. That really is something, isn't it? After all a sim needs to be able to evoke the exhilaration and fear that these cars bequeath on their drivers in real life.

hkraft300
25-11-2016, 12:20
The WMD model is fine idea but it creates a community, that when anything is criticized about their "perfect" game, you get replies filled with vitriol, piss, and vinegar, one could think that one took offence to their mother.

That's a bit over the top, isn't it?
You list the things you don't like about pcars, some members provide a rebuttal/explanation/positives that this title does do well. Has there been any personal attacks towards you?
Who is the "vitriol, piss and vinegar" coming from?


That isn't flattspotting. That's "mythical-end-of-tire-life" vibrations that has no base in reality. There is no flat spotting modelled in this game.


I should've made clear my question was about something during development I thought I read on this forum.
I'm not affiliated with SMS or WMD so I have no access or "vested interest."
Actually, I lie. I do have "vested interest" as this is the only good SIM I'm enjoying on console, and I'd like it to get better.


Simple answer, yes..

flat spots are there, they are just toned down (a lot).. when a tyre locks the temperature at the sliding surface should go up considerably (flash heating) and the associated wear should go through the roof.. but the flash heating wear was toned down to stop the very major effects on FFB wheels.

I thought the flash heating was reduced due to the Patch 6 debacle :o

Mad Al
25-11-2016, 13:08
.....


I thought the flash heating was reduced due to the Patch 6 debacle :o

I seem to recall flat spotting "improved" with patch 6..... wear certainly increased on overheated tyres (again, I'm living on memory here as I have better things to do than go back and try and find references.... a new build is begging for my attention to test some revised tyres ;))

BCJM76
25-11-2016, 13:19
That's a bit over the top, isn't it?
You list the things you don't like about pcars, some members provide a rebuttal/explanation/positives that this title does do well. Has there been any personal attacks towards you?
Who is the "vitriol, piss and vinegar" coming from?
To be fair, the "attitude" from the pcars community is pretty well documented by other members of the sim racing community. There are plenty examples on youtube, of sim racing personalities who have reviewed and critiqued pcars only to have their accounts here, banned.

I'm not saying WMD is the only community that does this but, in my experience it does seem like people try to go above and beyond to defend this game, even when it comes to the indefensible.

SlowBloke
25-11-2016, 15:32
To be fair, the "attitude" from the pcars community is pretty well documented by other members of the sim racing community. There are plenty examples on youtube, of sim racing personalities who have reviewed and critiqued pcars only to have their accounts here, banned.

I'm not saying WMD is the only community that does this but, in my experience it does seem like people try to go above and beyond to defend this game, even when it comes to the indefensible.

It seems to me a fair few of those critiquing have done so in an incredibly rude, argumentative and non-productive manner. Thats well documented too ;)

Those same people then get called out for their approach with consequences (ie the bans where applicable) and then spent the next year+ trying their hardest to repeat their vitriolic message wherever they think people will listen because they had their feathers ruffled.

Anyone with half a brain can list the shortcomings in Project Cars - and Im sure SMS are more critical about it than people give them credit for.

Ultimately when all is considered which sim do you still prefer - people here tend to prefer Project Cars. other places people tend to prefer other sims.. its all good either way!

Synystr
25-11-2016, 15:53
To be fair, the "attitude" from the pcars community is pretty well documented by other members of the sim racing community. There are plenty examples on youtube, of sim racing personalities who have reviewed and critiqued pcars only to have their accounts here, banned.

I'm not saying WMD is the only community that does this but, in my experience it does seem like people try to go above and beyond to defend this game, even when it comes to the indefensible.

Yep, and the DayZ community. Tread lightly there, man... foamy saliva covered fanboys are everywhere, like landmines in Cambodia.

Synystr
25-11-2016, 16:00
Ultimately when all is considered which sim do you still prefer

Which is what we are discussing here, no? How this compares to other sims.

I guess I'm so critical about this sim compared to others because I've played it for so long and I only experience the bugs and other BS over and over and over and over and over and over.

Stuck in the garage, calibrating the wheel every time I launch the game, wheel is unresponsive on the grid, the sound of the other cars degrades into stuttery messes, when someone leaves during a time accelerated race it causes people to crash to desktop etc.

The glossy-eyed wonder has long since worn off and all that's left is a jaded shell of a human being holding a G27 on his desk.

SlowBloke
25-11-2016, 16:04
Which is what we are discussing here, no? How this compares to other sims.

I guess I'm so critical about this sim compared to others because I've played it for so long and I only experience the bugs and other BS over and over and over and over and over and over.

Stuck in the garage, calibrating the wheel every time I launch the game, wheel is unresponsive on the grid, the sound of the other cars degrades into stuttery messes, when someone leaves during a time accelerated race it causes people to crash to desktop etc.

The glossy-eyed wonder has long since worn off and all that's left is a jaded shell of a human being holding a G27 on his desk.

Total understand - from my experience when that happens and your just going through the motions because you are but are frustrated / not enjoying / not able to see the good - is just to either leave it be or take a break and it may remind you of why you liked it in the first place when you come back. It may also reinforce why you got peed off in the first place.

Either way the fact you were hooked for so long has to mean theres something good going on - roll on PC2 maybe in that case ?

Synystr
25-11-2016, 16:07
Actually, I lie. I do have "vested interest" as this is the only good SIM I'm enjoying on console, and I'd like it to get better.


I didn't realize I was discussing AMS and rFactor2 with someone that cannot play them... I keep forgetting PS4 carries this game.

I haven't played a console racer in a while but I remember it being pretty biased towards analog sticks. I used to play Forza 2 with the Xbox wheel and pedals. It was pretty good, I don't know why they discontinued that.

Mahjik
25-11-2016, 17:15
I keep forgetting PS4 carries this game.

Huh? How many copies has rF2 sold on the PC?

Synystr
25-11-2016, 17:41
Huh? How many copies has rF2 sold on the PC?

Google is your friend.

Jynn
25-11-2016, 17:53
bought PC today on sale. After playing a lot of RF2, I have to be honest and say the the handling just feels dumbed down and very unsatisfying. Just not in the same league. Requested a refund as I just can't imagine myself when I have some driving time, starting PC over RF2 or automobilista.

Roger Prynne
25-11-2016, 18:08
So you bought today and decided it wasn't for you so quickly?

Have you even tried some of the excellent information on this site, have you set up your pad/wheel correctly, have you tried altering the car set ups?

What controller are you using?

And why did you post this http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?29379-r18-rear-breaks-away&p=963734&viewfull=1#post963734 when you only bought the game today?

Jynn
25-11-2016, 18:48
I took a 'try before you buy approach' back then. Played a couple hours and then left it. Was hoping I would have a better feel this time around but not to be. I have a T300 and used Jack spades files etc. There's a good chance I would have enjoyed this if it was my first sim but now that I know what RF2/AMS feel like it's impossible to settle for this. Don't wanna rain on your guys parade, but honestly if you tried RF2's new USF2000 you would likely p*$$ yourself with how real it feels compared to PC.

Mahjik
25-11-2016, 19:00
Google is your friend.

Technically, "Google" only has Steam sales and there are sales outside of Steam for rF2. Either way, if you want to say PS4 is "carrying" the pCARS sales; using Steam numbers only there is no comparison between the two.

Mahjik
25-11-2016, 19:08
Don't wanna rain on your guys parade, but honestly if you tried RF2's new USF2000 you would likely p*$$ yourself with how real it feels compared to PC.

Everyone will have opinions. Everyone is entitled to them. As much as you enjoy that car, there are people out there already poking holes in it. Given there are still technical limitations in place for all developers, no one title will make everyone happy. When the hardware is no longer the limitation, the various sims will have a lot less differences.

Zpectre87
25-11-2016, 20:30
It is in no way a measure of the quality of either game, but, if you bring the sales numbers, then rFactor 2, for all intents and purposes, has been a failure so far, considering the huge userbase of the first title. Main reasons from what I've read since a couple years ago were stability, difficulty to mod compared to rF1 (and to Assetto Corsa), and arguably ISI's asinine choice to stick with DX9 for graphics. It also does not help that, compared to Project Cars and Assetto Corsa, it is by far the most dependent on modded content to be successful (much like how rF1 was pitiful without even basic modding; the FFB for example was a joke without RealFeel). ISI could not handle developing the game by themselves anymore, so they associated with another studio now to try and boost it again, but it will be difficult when pCARS 2 is already in development and Assetto Corsa has a huge lead on it as well as being in continuous development.

Jynn
25-11-2016, 21:05
It is in no way a measure of the quality of either game, but, if you bring the sales numbers, then rFactor 2, for all intents and purposes, has been a failure so far, considering the huge userbase of the first title. Main reasons from what I've read since a couple years ago were stability, difficulty to mod compared to rF1 (and to Assetto Corsa), and arguably ISI's asinine choice to stick with DX9 for graphics. It also does not help that, compared to Project Cars and Assetto Corsa, it is by far the most dependent on modded content to be successful (much like how rF1 was pitiful without even basic modding; the FFB for example was a joke without RealFeel). ISI could not handle developing the game by themselves anymore, so they associated with another studio now to try and boost it again, but it will be difficult when pCARS 2 is already in development and Assetto Corsa has a huge lead on it as well as being in continuous development.

Agreed. The thing that frustrates me so much about RF2 is that aside from quickraces there's nothing to do. It's up to you to create challenges and goals for yourself. Somehow it loses it's appeal when it's on an excel spreadsheet. On top of that multiplayer is dead as a doornail unless you're in a league. In terms of mods, lately there's been some crackers, the new caterham is off the charts fun and as mentioned previously, the usf 2000 is fantastic.
btw I cancelled the refund, £9 is not going to break the bank and I'll likely be in the mood for some lighthearted multiplayer sprints I see multiplayer is hopping in PC, which nice. and perhaps doing some career mode will be fun.

BCJM76
25-11-2016, 22:01
It seems to me a fair few of those critiquing have done so in an incredibly rude, argumentative and non-productive manner. Thats well documented too ;)

Those same people then get called out for their approach with consequences (ie the bans where applicable) and then spent the next year+ trying their hardest to repeat their vitriolic message wherever they think people will listen because they had their feathers ruffled.

Anyone with half a brain can list the shortcomings in Project Cars - and Im sure SMS are more critical about it than people give them credit for.

Ultimately when all is considered which sim do you still prefer - people here tend to prefer Project Cars. other places people tend to prefer other sims.. its all good either way!

While I'm sure that may be the case with some people being banned, there are other reputable people who have been banned as well. Matt Orr (Emptybox) comes to mind.

I've watched a lot of his videos and I think he's pretty fair with his opinions. They guy stopped doing Pcars videos primarily because of some in the community and some in the hierarchy at SMS who seem to not be able to take any criticism.

Zpectre87
25-11-2016, 22:30
While I'm sure that may be the case with some people being banned, there are other reputable people who have been banned as well. Matt Orr (Emptybox) comes to mind.

I've watched a lot of his videos and I think he's pretty fair with his opinions. They guy stopped doing Pcars videos primarily because of some in the community and some in the hierarchy at SMS who seem to not be able to take any criticism.

There's no right or wrong side in this quarrel. I remember watching the video where Empty Box said he wouldn't be covering pCARS anymore and IIRC in the description to the video he linked to a blog maintained by a person whose hate for the game was every bit as obnoxious as some of the investors' support of it. So I unsubbed from his channel and would indeed take his opinions on pCARS with a grain of salt, because it seemed to me that he was clearly on a mission to make SMS look bad without any reason and was just on the other side of a very ugly argument, which is far from how I'd expect a "reputable" source with some 40,000+ subs on YT to behave.

(especially after he sang the praises of the recent Enduracers' release on rF2, which many people dedicated to that game and who are in the know concerning its physics are slamming)

Mahjik
25-11-2016, 23:26
I see multiplayer is hopping in PC, which nice. and perhaps doing some career mode will be fun.

There are two main things I really like about what SMS did with the career mode:


It's designed to represent what real life drivers go through. i.e. you do well one season and get offers for other teams/cars. You can't pick your livery as you just drive what you got offered.
It presents car/track combinations I likely would have never driven without going through career mode

BCJM76
25-11-2016, 23:33
There's no right or wrong side in this quarrel. I remember watching the video where Empty Box said he wouldn't be covering pCARS anymore and IIRC in the description to the video he linked to a blog maintained by a person whose hate for the game was every bit as obnoxious as some of the investors' support of it. So I unsubbed from his channel and would indeed take his opinions on pCARS with a grain of salt, because it seemed to me that he was clearly on a mission to make SMS look bad without any reason and was just on the other side of a very ugly argument, which is far from how I'd expect a "reputable" source with some 40,000+ subs on YT to behave.

(especially after he sang the praises of the recent Enduracers' release on rF2, which many people dedicated to that game and who are in the know concerning its physics are slamming)

I don't see a link to a blog in that video so i really can't comment on it. Personally, I don't think he was on a mission to make SMS look bad, seeing as he made positive comments about the game in previous videos.

In the end you're right, there is no right or wrong in this argument.

Dresden
26-11-2016, 00:13
There are two main things I really like about what SMS did with the career mode:


It's designed to represent what real life drivers go through. i.e. you do well one season and get offers for other teams/cars. You can't pick your livery as you just drive what you got offered.
It presents car/track combinations I likely would have never driven without going through career mode


Yes, one of the neat things is that SMS have at least tried to simulate the race driver experience with signing contracts and changing teams. It is really only the scripted weather that stops me from playing it more. These days I just use a site like http://www.myweather2.com/motor-racing.aspx to find the lastest real world conditions and then plug them in solo session.

Pcars career is still heaps better than the other racers I have tried recently (Forza/AC) which have no real career mode at all.

Mad Al
26-11-2016, 00:23
While I'm sure that may be the case with some people being banned, there are other reputable people who have been banned as well. Matt Orr (Emptybox) comes to mind.

I've watched a lot of his videos and I think he's pretty fair with his opinions. They guy stopped doing Pcars videos primarily because of some in the community and some in the hierarchy at SMS who seem to not be able to take any criticism.

http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/member.php?48956-Empty-Box

does that look like the account of a banned forum member...
his WMD forum account is equally not banned.....

lets just say, it's pretty easy to make a youtube video that focuses rather heavily on one aspect that he didn't like and ignore large swathes of the good work.. in his case it was his dislike of the AI....which is his right not to like, but many people found it very realistic (which begs the question, who's really at fault if you spend all your time crashing into the AI)

BCJM76
26-11-2016, 02:31
http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/member.php?48956-Empty-Box

does that look like the account of a banned forum member...
his WMD forum account is equally not banned.....

lets just say, it's pretty easy to make a youtube video that focuses rather heavily on one aspect that he didn't like and ignore large swathes of the good work.. in his case it was his dislike of the AI....which is his right not to like, but many people found it very realistic (which begs the question, who's really at fault if you spend all your time crashing into the AI)

I did a search and didn't find his account. My apologies, I figured his account was suspended. Although, where are all his posts? I do know he did make some posts here because I remember reading a few of them after I bought the game, last year.

Some people like the AI, which is fine. I've watched his videos and at no point have I seen him crashing into the AI. I would also agree with him that the AI is horrendous. Racing at Bathurst is a prime example. How many cars drive straight through Hell corner on the first lap? I get shit happens on opening laps but not to that extreme. Get in the draft on any course and get on the AI's bumper; they drive themselves off onto the grass. How is that realistic?

As said, this is an argument that will never be won by anyone because there are different thoughts on the game. Some consider it a sim, others a simcade. I'm still able to have some fun with the game, despite it's warts but it frustrates the hell out of me that the game wasn't even finished, still isn't finished and SMS moved on to Pcars 2. I picked the game up for $22 last year, figuring they had everything sorted out and, even to this day, that is not the case. Maybe my standards are too high but I'm pissed at myself for giving them $22 for a game that was never finished and is the reason why I refuse to pick up Assetto Corsa until that game is fixed.

Zpectre87
26-11-2016, 03:06
Some people like the AI, which is fine. I've watched his videos and at no point have I seen him crashing into the AI. I would also agree with him that the AI is horrendous. Racing at Bathurst is a prime example. How many cars drive straight through Hell corner on the first lap? I get shit happens on opening laps but not to that extreme. Get in the draft on any course and get on the AI's bumper; they drive themselves off onto the grass. How is that realistic?

I could write an essay on this game's AI... The team made the conscious decision to make them aggressive with their offensive and defensive maneuvers as opposed to other games where they simply give way at the slightest chance of contact, but this comes with terrible consequences as well. It's hard to attempt clean passes on the AI because they simply do not yield. I've been successful many times, but the AI will turn onto you very often and, when they don't, they liberally use the runoff areas without being penalized for it (even when going over gravel).

Although, to be fair, most people I've seen on YT (as opposed to Empty Box who is a seasoned racer) who race offline on pCARS are butchers with no regards for the bogeys' safety... They attempt suicidal moves all the time and try to plow their way through the AI as if it was, indeed, an arcade game.


As said, this is an argument that will never be won by anyone because there are different thoughts on the game. Some consider it a sim, others a simcade. I'm still able to have some fun with the game, despite it's warts but it frustrates the hell out of me that the game wasn't even finished, still isn't finished and SMS moved on to Pcars 2. I picked the game up for $22 last year, figuring they had everything sorted out and, even to this day, that is not the case. Maybe my standards are too high but I'm pissed at myself for giving them $22 for a game that was never finished and is the reason why I refuse to pick up Assetto Corsa until that game is fixed.

Sometimes I feel that, for every amount of crap SMS gets, Kunos gets a pass instead. I remember the FMOD hype very well. Every time people pointed out Assetto Corsa's engine sounds sucked, Kunos supporters told us to wait for FMOD. Well, FMOD came and the engine sounds in AC kept sounding like synthetic, muffled crap. Accurate, no doubt, but low quality. Likewise, Kunos keeps mesmerizing the userbase with new licensing deals and DLC, but the core game remains as arid as it has always been.

It seems to me that SMS has neverending issues with quality control as well, because pCARS was indeed delayed twice and, when released, was still plagued by many bugs. I haven't really experienced many bugs, but there are many people who have...

Synystr
26-11-2016, 06:42
Technically, "Google" only has Steam sales and there are sales outside of Steam for rF2. Either way, if you want to say PS4 is "carrying" the pCARS sales; using Steam numbers only there is no comparison between the two.

Carrying as in supplying. IE. "The grocery store carries milk."

Synystr
26-11-2016, 06:43
So you bought today and decided it wasn't for you so quickly?

Have you even tried some of the excellent information on this site, have you set up your pad/wheel correctly, have you tried altering the car set ups?

What controller are you using?

And why did you post this http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?29379-r18-rear-breaks-away&p=963734&viewfull=1#post963734 when you only bought the game today?

No self respecting sim racer uses a game pad...

cluck
26-11-2016, 09:39
Oh, you're "one of them" :rolleyes:

Project CARS is a game. rFactor 2 is a game. iRacing is a game. Automobilista is a game. Assetto Corsa is a game. RaceRoom Racing Experience is a game. Everything you do on a computer or console is a game and they are made so that we can all find some sort of enjoyment out of them. If you want to mimic real life a bit more accurately, then you can use a wheel but at no point should any of us kid ourselves that we're not playing computer games.

Not every game is produced for every single person and there is absolutely nothing wrong with not liking a game. What IS wrong is trying to tell other people that their choice of entertainment is bad.

Mad Al
26-11-2016, 09:55
Oh, you're "one of them" :rolleyes:

Project CARS is a game. rFactor 2 is a game. iRacing is a game. Automobilista is a game. Assetto Corsa is a game. RaceRoom Racing Experience is a game. Everything you do on a computer or console is a game and they are made so that we can all find some sort of enjoyment out of them. If you want to mimic real life a bit more accurately, then you can use a wheel but at no point should any of us kid ourselves that we're not playing computer games.

Not every game is produced for every single person and there is absolutely nothing wrong with not liking a game. What IS wrong is trying to tell other people that their choice of entertainment is bad.

Well said that man..


and congrats on the Most Vocal Poultry 2016 award ;)

hkraft300
26-11-2016, 11:10
No self respecting sim racer uses a game pad...

I used a gamepad until recently but my self respect is questionable.
Seriously, try telling that to some of the proper SIM racers on consoles I've raced with. Some have an incompatible wheel collecting dust or for use in older SIM titles on their PC, some don't have the means. Regardless, race them and the last thing you'd guess is gamepad.


What IS wrong is trying to tell other people that their choice of entertainment is bad.

Acid is amazingly entertaining. Some would argue otherwise.
Disclaimer: don't do drugs, kids. Not until you're older, at least ;)

DreamsKnight
26-11-2016, 11:28
fun part: this topic is a copy/past topic for each game, sim or not.

Mahjik
26-11-2016, 13:54
Carrying as in supplying. IE. "The grocery store carries milk."

At this point, you are just looking silly. You post snide comments, and then try to sluff them off when you are confronted (and proven incorrect) on said comments.

If you don't have facts, then say "IMO" or something similar. This way people won't need to attempt to challenge anything as it's just your opinion. But when you attempt to post your opinion as fact; you are going to be challenged on it.

Mahjik
26-11-2016, 14:02
I did a search and didn't find his account. My apologies, I figured his account was suspended. Although, where are all his posts? I do know he did make some posts here because I remember reading a few of them after I bought the game, last year.

He never made any posts on this site (the public pCARS forum). He did make a few posts during WMD (private forum) but to be honest, they aren't note-worthy... He only commented on the AI, then went on tirades when people disagreed with him. Then he would start on his "this is a cult" kick and stop posting.

BCJM76
26-11-2016, 15:05
He never made any posts on this site (the public pCARS forum). He did make a few posts during WMD (private forum) but to be honest, they aren't note-worthy... He only commented on the AI, then went on tirades when people disagreed with him. Then he would start on his "this is a cult" kick and stop posting.
I could have sworn I read a few of his posts. It was just after I subbed to his channel and I was cruising through the forums and saw his handle.

Dresden
26-11-2016, 22:32
I used a gamepad until recently but my self respect is questionable.
Seriously, try telling that to some of the proper SIM racers on consoles I've raced with. Some have an incompatible wheel collecting dust or for use in older SIM titles on their PC, some don't have the means. Regardless, race them and the last thing you'd guess is gamepad.


Racing with a wheel and seat set-up is certainly better but in some strange way it actually requires more skill to drive fast with a control pad. Years ago I remember watching a friend of mine playing some late 1990's rally game on playstation, and he held the game pad in one hand while twisting his right hand over the x and o buttons. He would tap each button as needed and drove some of the fast rally laps I have ever seen. I could not even hold it that way let alone drive fast.

I am still using Xbox control pad now and it is only because the current lay out of my small place does not suit buying anything new. When I move house I am bound to step up and be a part of the 'self respecting gamers'. Lol.

Thankfully SMS does not have a narrow view of the world around them and they have greatly improved the game pad controls since day 1. For that I am thankful.

Zpectre87
26-11-2016, 22:53
I used to play GT Legends with a pad... Pretty good control as well.

hkraft300
26-11-2016, 22:58
There are some that are injured and can't use pedals. There's at least 1 guy who rigged the throttle+brake to his wheel. And he's fast.

I think the gamepad implementation in the game is excellent: the settings can alter it significantly so it's a matter of finding what works for you.

Synystr
27-11-2016, 00:39
At this point, you are just looking silly. You post snide comments, and then try to sluff them off when you are confronted (and proven incorrect) on said comments.

If you don't have facts, then say "IMO" or something similar. This way people won't need to attempt to challenge anything as it's just your opinion. But when you attempt to post your opinion as fact; you are going to be challenged on it.

Here. Facts.


First, PCARS.
Pros ---- Cons
Looks Great. ---- BUGS BUGS BUGS (wheel, time progression crashes, stuck in the garage, sound bug with the other cars)
Beautiful day/night transitions and weather diversity ---- Penalty system (time penalties are dangerous)
Pretty good physics. ---- Scripted track progression
Decent and diverse car list. ---- Modding is almost nonexistent
Decent engine sounds. ---- Broken and limited replay system
Diverse track list with different layouts ---- Laggy "displayed" physics for the people you are racing against. (Its kinda hard to explain, but if you ever see anyone oversteer off the track it just looks like they drive off, instead of slide)
The game runs well ---- You can't share setups and its difficult to save and load your own.
Developers are interacting with fans regularly ---- Track conditions change way to quickly. (Wet to dry within a lap with no drying line and vice versa).
the FFB and tire model is kinda spongy. Its passable.
There isn't any driver control when entering or leaving the pits, no formation laps.

Now for PCARS2... quite frankly I haven't heard much about it.

Automobilista Motorsport Simulator. (rfactor 1.5)

Pros ---- Cons
Driving feels amazing. ---- Graphics look dated.
One of the highest, if not THE highest physic tick rates. ---- Still some minor bugs that need to be worked out. But they aren't game breaking.
Full manual pit access, formation laps, and rolling starts. ---- No host migration for servers.
Full penalty system. Stop/Go, DSQ, multi warning cut tracks.---- While AMS has a diverse car list, there are no multi classes like you'd get in the WEC. (LMP1, LMP2 etc). There are multi CAR classes but these are competitive with each other like how GT3 is.
Real flag system with full course cautions and safety cars. ---- While the FFB feels great, there isn't any real options to tweak other than choosing a preset and sliding a scale.
Best Formula 1 cars of any sim
Full mod support with a growing community.
Steam is not the server hub so when it goes down, all of AMS's servers work.
Great replay system that includes trackside user controllable cameras.
Full spectator system with the cameras. (near jayden )
The ability to switch drivers during a pitstop.
The game SOUNDS fantastic. I think they actually recording real engines for the outboard sounds.
A kinda small one, but AMS allows you to name your profile, it then takes your first and last name (if you chose to) and abbreviates appropriately for the replay HUD.
AMS is also cheap. Its $43.99 Canadian whereas PCARS was $64 when it came out.

LogRoad
27-11-2016, 06:44
I believe this thread is about ready for the Off Topic bin, no? Just my opinion, not to be confused with fact.

t0daY
27-11-2016, 10:10
Here. Facts.


First, PCARS.
Pros ---- Cons
Looks Great. ---- BUGS BUGS BUGS (wheel, time progression crashes, stuck in the garage, sound bug with the other cars)
Beautiful day/night transitions and weather diversity ---- Penalty system (time penalties are dangerous)
Pretty good physics. ---- Scripted track progression
Decent and diverse car list. ---- Modding is almost nonexistent
Decent engine sounds. ---- Broken and limited replay system
Diverse track list with different layouts ---- Laggy "displayed" physics for the people you are racing against. (Its kinda hard to explain, but if you ever see anyone oversteer off the track it just looks like they drive off, instead of slide)
The game runs well ---- You can't share setups and its difficult to save and load your own.
Developers are interacting with fans regularly ---- Track conditions change way to quickly. (Wet to dry within a lap with no drying line and vice versa).
the FFB and tire model is kinda spongy. Its passable.
There isn't any driver control when entering or leaving the pits, no formation laps.

Now for PCARS2... quite frankly I haven't heard much about it.

Automobilista Motorsport Simulator. (rfactor 1.5)

Pros ---- Cons
Driving feels amazing. ---- Graphics look dated.
One of the highest, if not THE highest physic tick rates. ---- Still some minor bugs that need to be worked out. But they aren't game breaking.
Full manual pit access, formation laps, and rolling starts. ---- No host migration for servers.
Full penalty system. Stop/Go, DSQ, multi warning cut tracks.---- While AMS has a diverse car list, there are no multi classes like you'd get in the WEC. (LMP1, LMP2 etc). There are multi CAR classes but these are competitive with each other like how GT3 is.
Real flag system with full course cautions and safety cars. ---- While the FFB feels great, there isn't any real options to tweak other than choosing a preset and sliding a scale.
Best Formula 1 cars of any sim
Full mod support with a growing community.
Steam is not the server hub so when it goes down, all of AMS's servers work.
Great replay system that includes trackside user controllable cameras.
Full spectator system with the cameras. (near jayden )
The ability to switch drivers during a pitstop.
The game SOUNDS fantastic. I think they actually recording real engines for the outboard sounds.
A kinda small one, but AMS allows you to name your profile, it then takes your first and last name (if you chose to) and abbreviates appropriately for the replay HUD.
AMS is also cheap. Its $43.99 Canadian whereas PCARS was $64 when it came out.

Again, if AMS is so much better just go there and leave us alone here^^ Nobody is forcing you to stay here :p

It is getting tired when people come to the Official Project Cars forum and talking non-stop about how "bad" actually pCars is and how much better iRacing/AC/RRE/rF1/rF2/AMS/Forza/GranTurismo/Farming Simulator 2017 is. Everybody knows the failures/mistakes in the game. Guess why they are currently working on a second game rather than patching everything into pCars1... Patching such a big amount would rather destroy the game than anything else. Thats why a Sequel is much better in this case.

Now haters going to say "But RRE or iRacing do not need a Sequel and every SIM is going with 1 game" - Yeah, true that but the progress of those games are hilariously slow. Just one example, iRacing had no DX11 support like 3-4 month ago. We are in 2016, nearly 2017 and the game was still running at DX9. iRacing is out since 2003 and still (after 13 years) no rain, no day/night circle nothing. 1 tire compound thats it, no variety nada. Trust me, going the way of having 1 game constantly updating and patching makes the progess of the tech and the game itself very very slow. Will be nice to see how much pCars2 will be different than pCars1, and we are talking here about a dev time of 2-3 years.

My 2 cents about it, I hope Synstr can now stop arguing here to death, if you are happy about AMS go to their forum ;)

Synystr
27-11-2016, 14:36
Again, if AMS is so much better just go there and leave us alone here^^ Nobody is forcing you to stay here :p

It is getting tired when people come to the Official Project Cars forum and talking non-stop about how "bad" actually pCars is and how much better iRacing/AC/RRE/rF1/rF2/AMS/Forza/GranTurismo/Farming Simulator 2017 is. Everybody knows the failures/mistakes in the game. Guess why they are currently working on a second game rather than patching everything into pCars1... Patching such a big amount would rather destroy the game than anything else. Thats why a Sequel is much better in this case.

Now haters going to say "But RRE or iRacing do not need a Sequel and every SIM is going with 1 game" - Yeah, true that but the progress of those games are hilariously slow. Just one example, iRacing had no DX11 support like 3-4 month ago. We are in 2016, nearly 2017 and the game was still running at DX9. iRacing is out since 2003 and still (after 13 years) no rain, no day/night circle nothing. 1 tire compound thats it, no variety nada. Trust me, going the way of having 1 game constantly updating and patching makes the progess of the tech and the game itself very very slow. Will be nice to see how much pCars2 will be different than pCars1, and we are talking here about a dev time of 2-3 years.

My 2 cents about it, I hope Synstr can now stop arguing here to death, if you are happy about AMS go to their forum ;)

Again. What is this thread called? Is this not a discussion about how this sim compares to rFactor 1.5 (AMS)?

I'm comparing it and since I have extensive experience with both, I'm confident with my comparison.

And we most likely WILL be leaving after a couple more seasons.

Did a 36 lapper in the 95 V12 F1s (with modded historically accurate skins) at the old Barcelona track (that we modded) and it was a fantastic race. Safety car came out and we all pitted for fresh tires... in a player controlled pits. I left my box, full opposite lock and came out side by side with another guy and had to cede the position due to safety car conditions.

Synystr
27-11-2016, 14:37
I believe this thread is about ready for the Off Topic bin, no? Just my opinion, not to be confused with fact.

I believe it is incredibly ON TOPIC for once. Look at what this thread is called lol.

"How does this simulator compare with rFactor and rFactor2?"

Zpectre87
27-11-2016, 15:08
AMS is also cheap. Its $43.99 Canadian whereas PCARS was $64 when it came out.

"When it came out"

Again, twisting facts. Compare prices today. AMS is more expensive than next gen sims today and simply not worth it considering it's just an rFactor mod, if I want I can get rF1 for dirt cheap and add great (and free!) content to it that shames what AMS has to offer when it comes to quantity and possibly even quality. The modding "support" of AMS is the modding support of rF1 (and GTR2, and any game based on gMotor2 like GSC) which is just convenient.

I could even compare to GTR2 which has fantastic vanilla content (in fact there is no good Spa track with sportscar pits for rFactor that wasn't illegally nicked from GTR2), simulates a full season of FIA GT with all cars and tracks, great modding support as well (with historic Power and Glory mod whose physics guy is now part of Assetto Corsa's team, and other extensive content), rain, different tire compounds, full day/night transition, fully animated pitstops, runs on the same engine as AMS and costs less than 10% of its price. How can you justify paying premium price for AMS after you learn what its guts are? It's silly.

DerrellBiffle
27-11-2016, 20:49
It is really hard to have an honest debate when the topic is centered on opinion. It like arguing over which is the prettiest girl if they are both pretty, some will pick one some the other. No one sim has all the answers you have to pick your favorites and enjoy, there is no wrong one as long as YOU enjoy it. Just my humble opinion. :p

FS7
27-11-2016, 21:57
AMS is also cheap.
AMS cheap? Afaik AMS is more expensive than every other PC sim out there.


... if I want I can get rF1 for dirt cheap...
True, it costs only US$2.49.

LukeC
27-11-2016, 22:23
It is really hard to have an honest debate when the topic is centered on opinion. It like arguing over which is the prettiest girl if they are both pretty, some will pick one some the other. No one sim has all the answers you have to pick your favorites and enjoy, there is no wrong one as long as YOU enjoy it. Just my humble opinion. :p

But if the discussion is about which one has the bigger breasts...

Still, some people may actually prefer the smaller ones, whilst others just can't live with small ones.

So to sum up:

The size can be quantified, but the preference is pure opinion.

Now the thread is seriously off- topic and can go to the off-topic section.;)

hkraft300
28-11-2016, 00:03
I think we're very on-topic. We are comparing pcars breasts with AMS/rF breasts :D

Do the PC guys really miss/crave modding on pcars, considering its official content is so big?
How big a difference is there between 600Hz tyre model vs 720Hz (a simplistic question for a simplistic comparison)? Would you really notice the difference?
Does AMS have dynamic ToD/track temp? If not, the setup/driving/track temp is "set and forget".
In pcars as the sun sets the track cools, tyres and brakes cool. You're doing a long stint and you have to nurse the car on cold tyres and brakes til you box: a great simulation of what RL endurance racers have to deal with.
Or maybe you prepared for it boxed early, so you're nursing the car on hot tyres until the track cools...

There are things different titles can learn from each other.

t0daY
28-11-2016, 06:53
Again. What is this thread called? Is this not a discussion about how this sim compares to rFactor 1.5 (AMS)?

I'm comparing it and since I have extensive experience with both, I'm confident with my comparison.

And we most likely WILL be leaving after a couple more seasons.

Did a 36 lapper in the 95 V12 F1s (with modded historically accurate skins) at the old Barcelona track (that we modded) and it was a fantastic race. Safety car came out and we all pitted for fresh tires... in a player controlled pits. I left my box, full opposite lock and came out side by side with another guy and had to cede the position due to safety car conditions.

You just trying with your comments to make pcars look bad. I think everybody knows ur opinion now. AMS is brilliant with their 720hz tire model and SMS with their 600hz tire model is rubbish. I do not even think you would notice the difference but whatever.

I think we are running in circles here. Your pros and cons are subjective points, for me as an example is modding a con rather a pro. But whatever, going to leave the thread here, we are really off topic here xd

t0daY
28-11-2016, 06:58
I believe it is incredibly ON TOPIC for once. Look at what this thread is called lol.

"How does this simulator compare with rFactor and rFactor2?"

AMS is not rF1 nor rF2. All we keep talking here about ams and automobilista. Definitely off topic lol

Synystr
28-11-2016, 08:12
AMS is not rF1 nor rF2. All we keep talking here about ams and automobilista. Definitely off topic lol

AMS is Automobilista Motorsports Simulator lel

It uses the same engine as rFactor 1 but with some upgrades put in by Reiza. Its jokingly called rFactor 1.5 by its community.

Synystr
28-11-2016, 08:15
AMS is brilliant with their 720hz tire model and SMS with their 600hz tire model is rubbish. I do not even think you would notice the difference but whatever.

So you haven't played then? How can you know that AMS doesn't do somethings better than PCARS if you haven't played?

And I'm not trying to make PCARS look bad.

What is this thread called? Stop taking offence to discussion.

Synystr
28-11-2016, 08:25
I think we're very on-topic. We are comparing pcars breasts with AMS/rF breasts :D

Do the PC guys really miss/crave modding on pcars, considering its official content is so big?
How big a difference is there between 600Hz tyre model vs 720Hz (a simplistic question for a simplistic comparison)? Would you really notice the difference?
Does AMS have dynamic ToD/track temp? If not, the setup/driving/track temp is "set and forget".
In pcars as the sun sets the track cools, tyres and brakes cool. You're doing a long stint and you have to nurse the car on cold tyres and brakes til you box: a great simulation of what RL endurance racers have to deal with.
Or maybe you prepared for it boxed early, so you're nursing the car on hot tyres until the track cools...

There are things different titles can learn from each other.

Modding isn't just about adding content. Its about adding personalized touches as well. Force feedback tweeks like realfeel, UI changes, sound changes etc. Modding also guarantees long game life because fresh content is always being added by the community. Skyrim is 5 years old but is still one of the most played games on steam.

I can feel a difference. Go play AMS and compare how the road and curbs feel up through the wheel compared to PCARS. It also makes the line between the tire gripping and slipping much smaller.

Yes AMS has dynamic time of day and track temp:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ndDjGFXSDlY

Watch near the end of this video, the sun goes down and the lights on the track slowly turn on. The car is also slipping around alot more. 15:29 to be precise.

It also has a real dynamic track depending on where you drive, where you brake etc. Rubbering in wherever the traffic is, as well as marbles off the racing line that are deadly.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8po4XyUyRDs

It is also the best F1 simulator... Hands down. But that's just bonus points.

SlowBloke
28-11-2016, 08:39
No VR support - irrelevant to me and a growing community.

It also looks like it 2/3 generations ago.

I know graphics shoudnt be everything but - but a simulation is a mix of all things - and what something looks like is important. Those saying gfx are nothing - would you go back to sprites if it felt amazing ?

Im not a fan of the rFactor feel at all - hence if it is anything like that - Im not sold either.

LukeC
28-11-2016, 08:59
Modding isn't just about adding content. Its about adding personalized touches as well. Force feedback tweeks like realfeel, UI changes, sound changes etc. Modding also guarantees long game life because fresh content is always being added by the community. Skyrim is 5 years old but is still one of the most played games on steam.

I can feel a difference. Go play AMS and compare how the road and curbs feel up through the wheel compared to PCARS.

Would you say Automobilista feels closer to Assetto Corsa in terms of feel/physics/car behaviour than it does to pcars?

FS7
28-11-2016, 09:46
Do the PC guys really miss/crave modding on pcars, considering its official content is so big?
Yes, there's a good amount of official cars & tracks in PCars, but modding would make the game even better imo. PCars has a really good track selection when compared to console games but it doesn't come even close to the track selection available in PC games that support mods.

t0daY
28-11-2016, 10:08
So you haven't played then? How can you know that AMS doesn't do somethings better than PCARS if you haven't played?

And I'm not trying to make PCARS look bad.

What is this thread called? Stop taking offence to discussion.

I played all Sims and own all mentionable ones. IRacing ac pcars rrre rF2 automobilista pCars2 and dirt rally if that counts xd

I am not talking anything bad here, but again (do not know how often I have to repeat myself) where is the sense of this thread? Are you trying to get people into Automobilista? Is it that? Because the only thing I see all the time from you are video links from AMS and comments like "yeee so amazing, we have this and that. And pcars hasn't got that. And bla and blub".

What do you expect if u are approaching an official forum from one game and you just constantly talking about another game. As I said, I am pretty sure they have their own forum, go there and be happy there about AMS.

Sankyo
28-11-2016, 10:45
... Modding also guarantees long game life because fresh content is always being added by the community.
Long game life for the people who play it, yes. But how interesting is that for a developer who wants to introduce a much improved version of the game? Long life because of modding does not mean many sales/much income for the devs for a long time. As much as I like long game life through constantly added content (played GTL for a long time,so I know all about it), it still stays the same game all that time so if you want something really fresh/new/improved, you won't get it through modding.


Skyrim is 5 years old but is still one of the most played games on steam.
It's a bit thin to state that that's only because of modding IMO. It's a different type of game that attracts a much larger crowd than race sims. And perhaps it's still a unique game, or the only real choice in its particular game segment?

Mahjik
28-11-2016, 12:44
Yes AMS has dynamic time of day and track temp

Yep, those were added to the isiMotor engine by who? Blimey (GTR2)... ;)

hkraft300
28-11-2016, 12:51
How much licensed official content with manufacturers backing do those titles have? If SMS were to do the same, how would that impact on its licensing agreements? Not very kindly, I believe. In any case, the modding is a PC only thing that would leave the console player base very much lacking for content. AC, anyone?



I can feel a difference. Go play AMS and compare how the road and curbs feel up through the wheel compared to PCARS. It also makes the line between the tire gripping and slipping much smaller.

I can see how the bolded part can have an affect, but that's milliseconds difference.
In any case, how do you differentiate between ffb implementation and physics tick rate?

Synystr
28-11-2016, 14:04
Would you say Automobilista feels closer to Assetto Corsa in terms of feel/physics/car behaviour than it does to pcars?

I havent played AC, but the feel/physics/car behaviour is superior to PCARS if that helps...

Zpectre87
28-11-2016, 14:16
Long game life for the people who play it, yes. But how interesting is that for a developer who wants to introduce a much improved version of the game? Long life because of modding does not mean many sales/much income for the devs for a long time. As much as I like long game life through constantly added content (played GTL for a long time,so I know all about it), it still stays the same game all that time so if you want something really fresh/new/improved, you won't get it through modding.

Some people do want the same game forever, though. Especially in the sim community where some people would dare argue that a game from 1999 (GPL) is more realistic than the sims we have today... :D Even the conversion of GPL content to rFactor was such a heated argument that the conversion was banned...

Synystr
28-11-2016, 14:17
Long game life for the people who play it, yes. But how interesting is that for a developer who wants to introduce a much improved version of the game? Long life because of modding does not mean many sales/much income for the devs for a long time. As much as I like long game life through constantly added content (played GTL for a long time,so I know all about it), it still stays the same game all that time so if you want something really fresh/new/improved, you won't get it through modding.


It's a bit thin to state that that's only because of modding IMO. It's a different type of game that attracts a much larger crowd than race sims. And perhaps it's still a unique game, or the only real choice in its particular game segment?

Sure you will! And modding allows for the community behind the game to grow and flourish, attracting new buyers, giving the devs feedback etc. I guarantee you a dev with a loyal community of modders is better off because its like having a bunch of part time staff who know the inner workings of their games. The argument that a modding community doesn't mean many sales is completely ludicrous... Look at the elder scrolls and fallout, every game from Valve, look what DayZ did for Arma 2 and Arma 3, look at the new XCOM games... Come on man, you're a super moderator... they don't promote stupid people to super moderators XD

Would you rather a PCARS release mod tools and have it easier to mod? Or would you rather have it stay the way it is?

Ok................. Arma 3 (a military sim) was released in 2013 and it is one of the most played games on steam still. Because of modding...

Synystr
28-11-2016, 14:19
Some people do want the same game forever, though. Especially in the sim community where some people would dare argue that a game from 1999 (GPL) is more realistic than the sims we have today... :D Even the conversion of GPL content to rFactor was such a heated argument that the conversion was banned...

AND PEOPLE STILL PLAY GRAND PRIX LEGENDS... including yours truly. Why? Its a damn good sim that can be freshened up with mods... Come on people! SEE THE LIGHT!

Synystr
28-11-2016, 14:20
By the way, you're welcome for arguing a topic that is creating heavy forum traffic. I'm not losing or gaining anything from being here, (except pleasure from some butthurt, which sounds hella dirty), but we're 12 pages in and multiple thousands of views and growing.

SlowBloke
28-11-2016, 14:32
By the way, you're welcome for arguing a topic that is creating heavy forum traffic. I'm not losing or gaining anything from being here, (except pleasure from some butthurt, which sounds hella dirty)

Thats the very definition of trolling Syn.

Synystr
28-11-2016, 14:39
Thats the very definition of trolling Syn.

Ehhh... at this point I felt like throwing in a smart ass answer. Its not hurting anyone is it? lol I mean, if it is hurting people, they are delicate snowflakes anyways.

We aren't getting anywhere here as a group so that's me committing seppuku to maintain my honour in defeat.

https://i.makeagif.com/media/9-14-2015/vyNnjt.gif

Sankyo
28-11-2016, 14:49
Sure you will! And modding allows for the community behind the game to grow and flourish, attracting new buyers, giving the devs feedback etc. I guarantee you a dev with a loyal community of modders is better off because its like having a bunch of part time staff who know the inner workings of their games. The argument that a modding community doesn't mean many sales is completely ludicrous... Look at the elder scrolls and fallout, every game from Valve, look what DayZ did for Arma 2 and Arma 3, look at the new XCOM games... Come on man, you're a super moderator... they don't promote stupid people to super moderators XD

Would you rather a PCARS release mod tools and have it easier to mod? Or would you rather have it stay the way it is?

Ok................. Arma 3 (a military sim) was released in 2013 and it is one of the most played games on steam still. Because of modding...

Again you're taking games that have a much, much larger player base to start with because they're much more popular games. By your reasoning, rFactor would still sell by the bucketload and ISI were millionaires already. But they're not, so something doesn't really add up with the 'modding = more customers' argument.

Personally I'd rather have pCARS to stay closed for modding so that it will still be usable for eSports, for example. The only thing I would really like is lots of community-made tracks. For the rest, I'm looking forward to all the improvements that pCARS2 will bring and that cannot simply be modded into pCARS1.

Synystr
28-11-2016, 15:12
Personally I'd rather have pCARS to stay closed for modding so that it will still be usable for eSports, for example. The only thing I would really like is lots of community-made tracks. For the rest, I'm looking forward to all the improvements that pCARS2 will bring and that cannot simply be modded into pCARS1.

eSports? I did one of those ESL races back in the day. The drivers were exploiting track limits where you don't get a penalty and when I brought it up to the admin, he said "You know you can do it too, right?" It was embarrassing...

Modding is a choice, though. You don't have to partake.

Roger Prynne
28-11-2016, 15:35
That's enough OT now Synystr, give it a rest please.

Synystr
28-11-2016, 15:41
That's enough OT now Synystr, give it a rest please.

That was the plan, but people keep discussing.

Roger Prynne
28-11-2016, 15:45
Just don't respond... easy :rolleyes:

Synystr
28-11-2016, 15:52
Just don't respond... easy :rolleyes:

I'm just surprised at how immovable these people are in their unending love for this game. Its cult-like.

I'm staying away from any Kool-aid you're handing out. (merciless Jonestown reference)





But in all seriousness... I'm just surpised the people involved in this debate don't want PCARS to be more simmy than it already is. Its almost like that they think that if they admit to it, they will be turning against the very core of their being and be cast out onto the street with any belongings they once had claimed by the State.

beetes_juice
28-11-2016, 16:08
Had a good laugh reading this.

konnos
28-11-2016, 16:31
I'm just surprised at how immovable these people are in their unending love for this game. Its cult-like.

You can say that for any of the sim's fanbase. You will of course always find people that enjoy all the sims, each for their strong points, but you won't see that many bothering to type things out in a forum. Also just because some people are willing to overlook some of the things that are bothering you, it doesn't mean that they have been dragged into the cult and can't see their own noses. Just, most of these bugs you are talking about, I haven't encountered them once. Or, some of them don't matter to me, because I don't use them. I of course recognise glaring issues, like the mad AI, the replay issues when people d/c mid-race etc etc, but I can't see myself stopping playing just for these, I don't even bother looking at replays and I rarely play with AI. The thing about AI is that it varies from track to track and class to class, and you can't have a satisfying race if you don't match your times with the AI times, just like in a proper race. And I have only dced once in multiplayer, however i do see a lot of people complaining from time to time, so i guess that is an issue.

To the average player looking to get into sims, this is a great game. We can't know all the tech, details and ups and downs of all the tire models in the market. If you think a tire is heating or cooling too fast, that's great that you can tell the difference, I can't though and I just play what the devs are giving me. Flatspotting, I guess that's a fail there for not being able to better implement it, it's a pain in the butt for historic cars if you are not careful with the brakes, but you can't expect too much from mediocre pedal sets.

As for AMS and rF2, they ve got really nice FFB, but after having played PCars for so long, i can say that it's marginally better in AMS. And the only thing I think they have gotten better is the wheel weight, but to me it doesn't provide the same grip levels PCars provide. Then again, I have tweaked PCars FFB to great extends and know what to correct when I encounter it. Also, I do prefer that the car models/physics are not completely open to modding, it will certainly lead to lackluster mods, like in AC. Again though, it seems to take too much effort to mod a car as it is now, it's certainly something to improve, as now you are keeping out the great effort some people would surely pour into this game.

SlowBloke
28-11-2016, 17:40
But in all seriousness... I'm just surpised the people involved in this debate don't want PCARS to be more simmy than it already is. Its almost like that they think that if they admit to it, they will be turning against the very core of their being and be cast out onto the street with any belongings they once had claimed by the State.

I don't think anyone thinks its perfect as is - plenty to improve on (same can be said for all sims) - but there is also a lot of things thatare being done very very well and obviously floats boats - certainly has mine to the tune of almost 1000 hours so far.

That is despite the known issues / limitations that get under most peoples skin whether they like PC or not.

Even then I still rate this easily as my best sim experience ever in 20 years of doing this on and off. That they managed it with the extremely limited budget bodes very well for PC2 imo.

Cut people some slack - its natural to defend a thing you love no ?

Haiden
28-11-2016, 19:06
I love PCars, and I've spent a lot of time in the FFB settings and forums, trying various tweaks and tips. When I got it dialed in PCars' FFB felt pretty amazing, and it was definitely the best I had ever felt on console. Prior to PCars, I had only played Forza and GT on console, so that was my reference. A few months ago, I switched to PC and have since been trying other sims. In that time, my opinion about PCars' FFB has changed. It's still pretty amazing, but no longer stands quite so high above some of the others. R3E and AC, both have great FFB. Last week, I bought rFactor2 and was shocked that there are basically only two FFB settings to dial in--Global FFB and the Car-Specific FFB. That's it. Set those two dials, and the FFB feels like absolute butter with full dynamic range. I spent the weekend trying various cars and tracks, and I have to say, I prefer rFactor's FFB to PCars.

What I love about PCars is the overall package--graphics, weather and time transitions, etc. I think SMS did a much better job of balancing the game elements--graphics, FFB, physics, AI, GUI, etc. But, as for which title is the best, I think that depends on the things you value most in your sims. If graphics are extremely important to you, or the most important element, then you're not going to like rFactor2 more than PCars. But if you value FFB and ease of setup more, then you might like rFactor2 more. If you need real triple screen support, because your side monitors are angled, then you're going to be frustrated with PCars. If your setup doesn't have the screens at a sharp angle, then that's probably not a concern. Basically, debating which sim is better is pointless, because it depends on so many personal and individual factors. It's a bit like arguing your brand new BMW is better than your neighbor's brand new Lexus or Mercedes. Who cares? If you're both happy with your new cars, then stop talking about them and go drive them. :) It's way more fun to drive. :)

hkraft300
28-11-2016, 21:05
I havent played AC, but the feel/physics/car behaviour is superior to PCARS if that helps...

Ffb preference or racing is your day job?



Would you rather a PCARS release mod tools and have it easier to mod? Or would you rather have it stay the way it is?
...

Neither. It's why we're eagerly anticipating the new and improved sequel.


I'm just surprised at how immovable these people are in their unending love for this game. Its cult-like.

I'm staying away from any Kool-aid you're handing out. (merciless Jonestown reference)

But in all seriousness... I'm just surpised the people involved in this debate don't want PCARS to be more simmy than it already is. Its almost like that they think that if they admit to it, they will be turning against the very core of their being and be cast out onto the street with any belongings they once had claimed by the State.

Oh look there's some AMS kool-aid!
See above answer.
We know pcars is flawed. It has bugs. The tyres aren't quite where we'd like it to be. We want more features. We want more licensed cars and tracks. Pcars1 has limitations. SMS has a budget.
Then there's the weak console hardware.
Anyway. Pcars2.

Zpectre87
28-11-2016, 21:09
Again you're taking games that have a much, much larger player base to start with because they're much more popular games. By your reasoning, rFactor would still sell by the bucketload and ISI were millionaires already. But they're not, so something doesn't really add up with the 'modding = more customers' argument.

Personally I'd rather have pCARS to stay closed for modding so that it will still be usable for eSports, for example. The only thing I would really like is lots of community-made tracks. For the rest, I'm looking forward to all the improvements that pCARS2 will bring and that cannot simply be modded into pCARS1.

The thing with modding is that, over time, development of scratch made content for rFactor has slowed down to a point where it's very rare to see a completely new, fully scratch made, high quality mod for it. Last big one I remember was the GrC mod from Virtua LM. The reason for it is competition. Even if rFactor was the only sim on the market, ISI couldn't stop competition from surfacing and offering a newer, better product. When Assetto Corsa was announced with the promise of a new path in physics and graphics, people started to make the move and rFactor lost its appeal, prompting ISI to develop its sequel.

Another thing that surfaced in the meantime were paid mods. Reiza started as modders, then decided to go commercial like SimBin once did, but their first efforts (GSC series) were very barebones, and now they price and position AMS as a next gen sim when it really isn't. The guts are all rFactor. It's as if Ferrari introduced the 458 Speciale today to compete against the McLaren 650S and the Lamborghini Huracán and priced it the same or higher than these two cars just because it's last gen's top of the line compared to next gen's early steps. Conveniently, Synystr side-stepped my question of whether it wouldn't be better then to simply stay with rFactor and/or get GTR2 for a fraction of the price of AMS, because he knows it's simply not worth the price.

If SMS can get both Porsche and Ferrari licenses, there's no need for modding at all. The main reason for modding these days is to sidestep licensing requirements. rFactor built its name on that. ISI paid zero for licenses over the years and profitted immensely from it as the dominant sim racing platform on PC. Is it ethical? You be the judge.

That's not even getting to the point where the vast majority of modding activity these days is based around illegal conversions from other games supported by hastily-made physics. The meaning of "real" is lost when the physics engine is poorly calibrated. rFactor's underlying gMotor2 engine won't magically turn wrong data from a crappy Codemasters F1 conversion into sheer realism. Brains are meaningless without data.

Synystr
28-11-2016, 22:45
So, whens PCARS 2 coming out? Haven't heard anything...........

Roger Prynne
28-11-2016, 22:49
Probably near the end of next year..... but don't quote me.

Mad Al
29-11-2016, 00:26
Probably near the end of next year..... but don't quote me.

There.. consider yourself quoted.. ;)

Sankyo
29-11-2016, 07:54
So, whens PCARS 2 coming out? Haven't heard anything...........
It will come out when it's done, SMS is in no rush and want it to be great.

Synystr
29-11-2016, 09:04
It will come out when it's done, SMS is in no rush and want it to be great.

Lol marketing at its finest.

Sankyo
29-11-2016, 09:21
Lol marketing at its finest.
I think it would do you a lot of good to be less cynical to the people here when they're giving honest answers to your questions.

t0daY
29-11-2016, 09:22
Lol marketing at its finest.

You at your finest lol. Can we just close this thread? I think it got answered by Synystr, only his opinions matters here and he stated that AMS is damn amazing. He is like the ambassador for AMS trying to catch new people in other sims forum :D I start looking at the iRacing forum, maybe I can find him there aswell :D :D

Question answered -> Let's move on :)

Synystr
29-11-2016, 09:25
Conveniently, Synystr side-stepped my question of whether it wouldn't be better then to simply stay with rFactor and/or get GTR2 for a fraction of the price of AMS, because he knows it's simply not worth the price.


I... I can't even begin to contemplate what upside down, backwards deductive reasoning you went with to get THAT cantankerous conclusion.

I started skipping your novellas because, quite honestly, I am not the one shortening my simulator horizons by covering my ears and going "NANANANANANANANANANA!". I am trying to inform people that you don't have to flock to ONE sim only and fuckin pledge your soul to it. There are other sims out there that do things better than this and that you should try it.

AMS is on sale. Go buy it and drive the V10 Formula 1 at 2001 era Imola. Don't be scared. Shh shhhhh.... its ok. PCARS will still love you. Shhhh.

Synystr
29-11-2016, 09:27
You at your finest lol. Can we just close this thread? I think it got answered by Synystr, only his opinions matters here and he stated that AMS is damn amazing. He is like the ambassador for AMS trying to catch new people in other sims forum :D I start looking at the iRacing forum, maybe I can find him there aswell :D :D

Question answered -> Let's move on :)

This is what the PCARS community is infamous for. Right here.

t0daY
29-11-2016, 09:28
This is what the PCARS community is infamous for. Right here.

If I look at your behaviour and how you answer questions and comment stuff what do you expect? In all seriousness. Just sad if I am honest.

Synystr
29-11-2016, 09:28
I think it would do you a lot of good to be less cynical to the people here when they're giving honest answers to your questions.

Compare your answer to Roger's and get back to me with that.

Synystr
29-11-2016, 09:30
If I look at your behaviour and how you answer questions and comment stuff what do you expect? In all seriousness. Just sad if I am honest.

What, you mean discussing the original topic of this thread?

t0daY
29-11-2016, 09:32
You are not getting it mate, oh man...

Synystr
29-11-2016, 09:34
Guys, take the blinders off and enjoy other sims as well as PCARS. That's the entire point.

And you don't sell a game you are talking about by listing mediocre things about it. You say what's good about it so people give it a try. SMS already has your money... they don't need your undying loyalty lmao

t0daY
29-11-2016, 09:35
Guys, take the blinders off and enjoy other sims. That's the entire point.

And you don't sell a game you are talking about by listing mediocre things about it. You say what's good about it so people give it a try. SMS already has your money... they don't need your undying loyalty lmao

Yes you are right. Thanks for enlighten us.

Synystr
29-11-2016, 09:35
Yes you are right. Thanks for enlighten us.

BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM VICTORY

t0daY
29-11-2016, 09:36
BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM VICTORY

I am so happy about that. Many thanks Synystr, I try out AMS tonight :)

Synystr
29-11-2016, 09:37
*Wipes sweat from my brow*

Fucksake people... why'd you make it so hard? Jeeeeeeez

t0daY
29-11-2016, 09:37
*Wipes sweat from my brow*

Fucksake people... why'd you make it so hard? Jeeeeeeez

Because we got paid by SMS to be loyal. But I had to break that deal and opened my eyes. You are so right!

Synystr
29-11-2016, 09:38
I am so happy about that. Many thanks Synystr, I try out AMS tonight :)

Nah, you won't lol

But I appreciate the smoke and mirrors to make me feel like I achieved something.

t0daY
29-11-2016, 09:39
Nah, you won't lol

But I appreciate the smoke and mirrors to make me feel like I achieved something.

You did Synystr. I do own AMS it is not like that. I will add you in steam and ask you tonight about good FFB settings and where to start :)

t0daY
29-11-2016, 09:41
Maybe we should create here a AMS sub forum to get things better sorted. Like important mods and good FFB settings.

Synystr
29-11-2016, 09:44
You did Synystr. I do own AMS it is not like that. I will add you in steam and ask you tonight about good FFB settings and where to start :)

I told you, Formula V10 at the 2001 Imola track.

The FFB settings are personal preference.... you know that Manu lol

Synystr
29-11-2016, 09:45
I told you, Formula V10 at the 2001 Imola track.

The FFB settings are personal preference.... you know that Manu lol

*DING* We have a winner.

t0daY
29-11-2016, 09:47
I told you, Formula V10 at the 2001 Imola track.

The FFB settings are personal preference.... you know that Manu lol

Many thanks. Will post my new unloyal view tonight, catch you later guys!

Sankyo
29-11-2016, 09:47
I started skipping your novellas because, quite honestly, I am not the one shortening my simulator horizons by covering my ears and going "NANANANANANANANANANA!". I am trying to inform people that you don't have to flock to ONE sim only and fuckin pledge your soul to it. There are other sims out there that do things better than this and that you should try it.

AMS is on sale. Go buy it and drive the V10 Formula 1 at 2001 era Imola. Don't be scared. Shh shhhhh.... its ok. PCARS will still love you. Shhhh.


Guys, take the blinders off and enjoy other sims as well as PCARS. That's the entire point.

And you don't sell a game you are talking about by listing mediocre things about it. You say what's good about it so people give it a try. SMS already has your money... they don't need your undying loyalty lmao


*Wipes sweat from my brow*

Fucksake people... why'd you make it so hard? Jeeeeeeez

That's enough now with the sweeping insults of fanboyism, insults of SMS only being interested in the money and the unneccessary swearing. One more posting like this and you can enjoy 2 weeks off.

Synystr
29-11-2016, 09:48
That's enough now with the sweeping insults of fanboyism, insults of SMS only being interested in the money and the unneccessary swearing. One more posting like this and you can enjoy 2 weeks off.

Oh my god... Lighten up. It was humour.

Synystr
29-11-2016, 09:52
You guys should really just delete any other discussion that arises about how PCARS compares to _________ . You guys can't handle it.

t0daY
29-11-2016, 09:54
You guys should really just delete any other discussion that arises about how PCARS compares to _________ . You guys can't handle it.

Thanks for your advice. The moderators appreciating your opinion and how to handle things. Although I am still for the AMS Subforum here :)

Sankyo
29-11-2016, 09:57
You guys should really just delete any other discussion that arises about how PCARS compares to _________ . You guys can't handle it.
If you'd read this forum and how many people here discuss the good things of other race games and criticize pCARS as well, you'd know it's not true. But you're already stuck in your preconceived opinion of the people here it seems. Pot and kettle.

Synystr
29-11-2016, 10:03
If you'd read this forum and how many people here discuss the good things of other race games and criticize pCARS as well, you'd know it's not true. But you're already stuck in your preconceived opinion of the people here it seems. Pot and kettle.

It wasn't preconceived up until recently lol

I originally LIKED this community.

konnos
29-11-2016, 10:04
I am trying to inform people that you don't have to flock to ONE sim only and fuckin pledge your soul to it. There are other sims out there that do things better than this and that you should try it.

If you have noticed, most of us play other sims as well, iracing probably the less played in the forum since it requires heavy investment in time and money. So you are kinda preaching to the choir really.

Roger Prynne
29-11-2016, 10:52
Thread Closed.... if any of the other Mods want to open it again then feel free..... but I've personally had enough of this rubbish :mad-new:

Konan
29-11-2016, 19:48
...rubbish is too good a word for it mate...:rolleyes: