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Foofer37
04-12-2016, 15:37
Hi All, perhaps some are already doing this/have tried this, but here goes. For me, it has made the game actually way more realistic and more to scale as it would be racing in the real world. Personally, I feel that many of the standard cars are set up (when you first install game), to have too much grip and go too fast to be realistic. (Just watch the replay before and after these settings.) And, this leads to a lack of realism and over time, boredom. Not putting PCars down, just my thoughts after playing this game for at least a solid year now on both PC and PS4.
For a new experience, try this:

Pick a car, preferably a GT3 car (for starters) such as the BMW M3 GT and remove ALL downforce, front and rear. Install Hard compound race tires. Set your braking force to 70%.
Set Limited Slip Acceleration Lock to 0%. Set your fuel as low as you can for the amount of laps you know you'll be running. When racing against AI, set the AI to somewhere around 20 on the difficulty scale, for starters, say at Brands Indy. Do a short 4-5 lap race, starting in a random starting position.

I've been running the game this way for some time now and have never had so much fun to be honest. It makes the game a real challenge, while at the same time, I think anyway, more realistic. That's the beauty of PCars. The entire simulation is customizable to fit your preferences.

Give it a go and post your thoughts. Keep in mind, these setting will depend on the car you're running. For example. an F1 car might be a disaster with no downforce, so this might not work. Street cars, this works as well, removing all rear downforce and using the settings I mentioned, again, depending on the car.

The RUF RGT8, this works as well, but I feel there is something strange about the way the car drives. It's very twitchy, bottoms out a lot and when the car loses grip, it's gone, in the gravel. Still, if you get used to it it's still a lot of fun. The BMW Z4, the BMW M3 GT, can be slid out of corners with great control and are a total blast to drive this way. So they are great cars to start with. They drive in a very natural way.

Now, when you set up the car this way, you're running no downforce, just like the old days, but I think the cars drive like the real race cars do now WITH downforce. Anyway, your cars will have more top end and acceleration. So you may think you won't fair well in multiplayer, but you will be surprised how competitive you can be after you get used to it. Go racing!! Cheers!

Foofer37
04-12-2016, 15:48
Also need to mention: Make sure traction control is off! How could I forget that one?!? You will need to work on short-shifting, as revving out every gear will certainly have you in a cloud of tire smoke frequently. Short-shifting allows you to get the power down more smoothly. Also, these settings depend on whether you are using a game pad or wheel. If you're using a wheel/pedals, you will have better throttle control and may be able to set your AI higher even at the outset. Again, depends on the track etc. Have fun!

hkraft300
04-12-2016, 16:03
So what you're saying is: just drive the 80's cars instead? :rolleyes:
Lol jk. You have a point. The soft tyres on GT3 are only supposed to be run at night/cold track.
I think the grip isn't far different between the compounds, but the hard tyres do need much more finesse. Soft tyres are more forgiving, like you can abuse them, drive poorly and rough and get away with it. This behaviour will change with pcars2, fingers crossed :)

Rambo_Commando
04-12-2016, 19:42
Op, instead of handicapping yourself with the above why not just up the difficulty?

Jussi Karjalainen
04-12-2016, 21:16
Now, when you set up the car this way, you're running no downforce, just like the old daysFWIW the cars will still develop downforce, the setting 0.0 just means they develop the least amount of DF that they can. It'll still be hundreds of kilograms for GT3 cars even with those settings.

Foofer37
04-12-2016, 22:41
FWIW the cars will still develop downforce, the setting 0.0 just means they develop the least amount of DF that they can. It'll still be hundreds of kilograms for GT3 cars even with those settings.

Yeah, no doubt. But the point is you are reducing it as much as possible. Makes for a better sim :D

hkraft300
05-12-2016, 00:38
Yeah, no doubt. But the point is you are reducing it as much as possible. Makes for a better sim :D

Check out Jussi's thread on in-game GT3 BoP.
RL GT3 pretty much run the hard compound that's in the game. Therefore: more realistic.

Foofer37
05-12-2016, 01:22
Op, instead of handicapping yourself with the above why not just up the difficulty?

Well, you're missing the point of my post. Because I don't feel that you wind up with results that are real. You're just increasing difficulty and going faster.

Charger
05-12-2016, 10:57
Well, you're missing the point of my post. Because I don't feel that you wind up with results that are real. You're just increasing difficulty and going faster.

Eh? 20% AI, where is the challenge in that, I could do that with 3 wheels in reverse, the challenge is to go as fast as you can regardless of settings, it's more fun being beat by the AI at 100% and trying to beat them.

Basically what you have done is turn the cars into drift cars, maybe fun but not realistic or more 'sim', sliding is not faster, better traction is.

hkraft300
05-12-2016, 11:39
If the sole aim and "go faster" = more fun, why bother with driving anything but the fastest cars? Why would you drive anything besides the P30/TS040, FA...? Why bother with classic cars?
Been racing some of the Lotus Classics tonight with a few buddies. On the classic hard tyres. Bloody brilliant.

Driving on hard tyres is a different challenge. Maybe you're fast, so race the AI at 100% and drive on hard tyres.

Roger Prynne
05-12-2016, 13:20
OP are you using a wheel or a pad?

Foofer37
05-12-2016, 13:32
Right now I'm using a pad, but expect to be using a T150 here by Christmas. :)

Mahjik
05-12-2016, 13:41
No harm in finding new ways to enjoy a sim. Heck, I get most of my enjoyment just but setting up long practice sessions on race weekends and driving laps with the AI (without actually doing a race). ;)

Roger Prynne
05-12-2016, 14:35
^ yep me too.

Haiden
05-12-2016, 14:47
^Same. And sometimes, I actually forget it's practice and not an actual race...LOL

Charger
05-12-2016, 14:54
If the sole aim and "go faster" = more fun, why bother with driving anything but the fastest cars? Why would you drive anything besides the P30/TS040, FA...? Why bother with classic cars?
Been racing some of the Lotus Classics tonight with a few buddies. On the classic hard tyres. Bloody brilliant.

Driving on hard tyres is a different challenge. Maybe you're fast, so race the AI at 100% and drive on hard tyres.

Fast as in faster than the equivalent car that the AI is driving, assume 100% is the benchmark that you need to beat then tune the car to beat it, doesn't matter on car choice, fun is the challenge of catching up and passing.

I think the OP might find with a wheel things change, using the word more realistic does not apply though, that was my point.

FS7
05-12-2016, 14:59
Heck, I get most of my enjoyment just but setting up long practice sessions on race weekends and driving laps with the AI (without actually doing a race). ;)
To me that's an interesting way to setup track days with road cars: practice, max number of AI opponents, multiclass.
Doing that on Monaco at night is really fun, both driving & watching the replay aftewards:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F5blWyd5o0k

Foofer37
05-12-2016, 15:49
Fast as in faster than the equivalent car that the AI is driving, assume 100% is the benchmark that you need to beat then tune the car to beat it, doesn't matter on car choice, fun is the challenge of catching up and passing.

I think the OP might find with a wheel things change, using the word more realistic does not apply though, that was my point.

Not sure what you mean that 'realistic does not apply though'. Can you clarify? If you're saying that the point is simply to beat the AI at 100% no matter the realism, then that's an interesting point of view. Because then you are taking the sim at it's word that at 100% it is 'real'. That's my point. I don't think it is. I think there is enough 'arcade' built into this sim to appeal to the masses across a broad range of interests. If it was 100% pure sim/real, then a lot of people would be bored with it. And by your comments, what I'm saying is correct. And that's totally fine, no offense intended at all.

All I'm saying is, the 'sim' part, for me, is at the settings I mentioned in my OP. When I compare driving in this game to the real world, I believe this is where they line up. I have driven on track in real race cars. GT3 cars are obviously outstanding nowadays. But they are not F1 cars. They are not Red Bull fan cars as in Gran Turismo. They have clear limits that match the speeds that I'm running at in my settings mentioned above. That's all I'm saying. :)

To elaborate a little further: In a particular car, at a particular track, you can assign a speed to each corner. You can say 'turn 1' is a 90mph corner in a BMW M3 GT. That's what it is then. You can't exceed that speed by much without taking the corner incorrectly which either wears your tires excessively, causes your overall lap time to actually be slower, or puts you in the gravel. If PCars allows you to get through that corner at say 120mph, that's when it becomes arcade. Obviously in an F1 car, that corner can be taken much faster, etc. Anyway, just my thoughts. Hopefully others can have some fun from a different perspective. One that I think is more in line with the real world. But I believe PCars has built into it a wide range of 'simulations' for the masses. They obviously want to sell it to enough people. That's smart and I totally get that. They have to, to do well. It's very well done I think, how they pulled it off.

hkraft300
05-12-2016, 19:03
Fast as in faster than the equivalent car that the AI is driving, assume 100% is the benchmark that you need to beat then tune the car to beat it, doesn't matter on car choice, fun is the challenge of catching up and passing.

I think the OP might find with a wheel things change, using the word more realistic does not apply though, that was my point.

What if you're so fast that starting from the back with a 100% AI isn't much a challenge? Then you quickly get bordd, no? Using a harder tyre compound (or make it a wet race!) increases the challenge. So that's a different way to look at it again. "More realistic" certainly does apply to many of the car classes. Using hard tyres the GT3 cars post more realistic lap times than using soft tyres. Also using period correct tyres for classics (68 tyres on a 68 car, for example), and "all weather" tyres on some road cars instead of the track tyres on some road cars.
For reference check out Jussi's threads on the balance of GT3 and road b class performance comparison threads.

@OP: we'll see what you think of pcars "simulation" when you get that wheel ;)

Foofer37
05-12-2016, 19:20
@OP: we'll see what you think of pcars "simulation" when you get that wheel ;)

Absolutely! Can't wait. I can really anticipate it. I don't think it will become easier, but it will be more like the real thing. :)

hkraft300
05-12-2016, 21:17
Absolutely! Can't wait. I can really anticipate it. I don't think it will become easier, but it will be more like the real thing. :)

It actually becomes easier to tune the cars and conserve tyres.
I found on the gamepad I could only really enjoy the high downforce race cars. Now everything from the Lotus 25 to FA is a blast.
Be sure to try all the cars. They're all amazing.
You really start to appreciate the car list, the nuances of the physics and the ffb.

Grijo
06-12-2016, 01:04
Absolutely! Can't wait. I can really anticipate it. I don't think it will become easier, but it will be more like the real thing. :)

Believe me, Pcars with a wheel it's another game, for better of course. I played about 600 hours with a gamepad and I never liked the road cars feel, bit now it's a completly different story. That's me enjoying a race with Ruf RGT8 at Road America with AI in 100% using my brand new wheel. I'm having so much fun with it...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jM9dcwXmwFo

kevin kirk
06-12-2016, 17:30
I like to run with o downforce. Tire wear off and fuel off on the gt3 with empty tanks verses AI set to about 80 or 85. Force me to ease on the throttle on corner exit unlike just pounding it down in regular gameplay. I like the fun of having to focus on every imput I make

hkraft300
06-12-2016, 19:24
Try the same with fuel and accelerated tyre wear! That'll teach you to be kind to the tyres.

TopAirspace
03-01-2017, 03:47
I dont think OP actually realises that real life GT3 Cars are massively over rubbered, Create loads of aero, Run Traction Control, Run ABS systems, Run Stability Control etc.... nothing you have stated is making the GT3 class any more realistic. It would honesty be quite a challange for a competent driver who at least can generate heat in the tyres to spin in a GT3 Racecar unless you were really hitting towards the limit

hkraft300
25-01-2017, 12:31
Racing the hard tyres on GT3 would be more realistic. Everything else eg 0 wing, 0 diff etc I'm not so sure.
Making your car a pig to drive then racing it?

wolowizzard
26-01-2017, 11:34
The whole discussion is pointless. Using a pad and then judging realism? Come on...

konnos
26-01-2017, 12:24
Race with 0 fuel, now that's something.

FS7
26-01-2017, 12:58
Race with 0 fuel, now that's something.
That's actually a good idea, you run out of fuel you have to push your car across the finish line, real drivers have tried it.

Mascot
26-01-2017, 13:14
One thing I can heartily recommend (if you have the patience) is to start a career and run full-length practice, qualifying and race sessions - but do them on the actual days, real time. So if it's Friday in the 'real world', you'll be practicing, then qualifying on the Saturday, then running the sprint and main races on the Sunday. You can obviously exit career between times and do other stuff in the game, but try to keep the discipline of using those days for the career.

The sense of anticipation builds between races, and if you stuff up in the main race after being in a good position (important - no cheating or restarts allowed!) you have to stew on it for a week before trying to claw back some ground. Similarly, if you nail a podium then you have a week before you can try to maintain the momentum. Running full practice and quali sessions makes the actual races incredibly tense, and because of the time invested, makes them actually mean something. And the points system means that getting a DNF isn't the end of your season. Getting any points at all still feels like an achievement against tough opposition if you set AI correctly so you aren't just placing top three every race. I actually took great satisfaction finishing in the top ten at the end of the season.

Running career like this in the GT classes (where the AI is superb) and with full damage on (remember, no restarting - take the loss like a man and learn from it, even if you go out on the first corner) is incredibly rewarding.

bmanic
26-01-2017, 17:33
One thing I can heartily recommend (if you have the patience) is to start a career and run full-length practice, qualifying and race sessions - but do them on the actual days, real time. So if it's Friday in the 'real world', you'll be practicing, then qualifying on the Saturday, then running the sprint and main races on the Sunday. You can obviously exit career between times and do other stuff in the game, but try to keep the discipline of using those days for the career.

The sense of anticipation builds between races, and if you stuff up in the main race after being in a good position (important - no cheating or restarts allowed!) you have to stew on it for a week before trying to claw back some ground. Similarly, if you nail a podium then you have a week before you can try to maintain the momentum. Running full practice and quali sessions makes the actual races incredibly tense, and because of the time invested, makes them actually mean something. And the points system means that getting a DNF isn't the end of your season. Getting any points at all still feels like an achievement against tough opposition if you set AI correctly so you aren't just placing top three every race. I actually took great satisfaction finishing in the top ten at the end of the season.

Running career like this in the GT classes (where the AI is superb) and with full damage on (remember, no restarting - take the loss like a man and learn from it, even if you go out on the first corner) is incredibly rewarding.

Now that's some hardcore gaming right there. Respect!

.. and I can see how it would enhance the immersion a lot. You've basically recreated a realistic reason for getting nervous. All that work and preparation, which can be instantly taken away from you if you are not careful.

Unfortunately the slightly crazy and reckless AI can make this kind of experience frustrating.

Mascot
26-01-2017, 17:44
Now that's some hardcore gaming right there. Respect!

.. and I can see how it would enhance the immersion a lot. You've basically recreated a realistic reason for getting nervous. All that work and preparation, which can be instantly taken away from you if you are not careful.

Precisely - the stakes are raised and the consequences are real. It's amazing how intense the atmosphere is, especially towards the end of a long race.


Unfortunately the slightly crazy and reckless AI can make this kind of experience frustrating.

That's why I do it in the GT classes where the AI is pretty well behaved.

Doing the career this way will make you drive a lot more defensively, and make you choose your attacks with great care. I know a lot of people will struggle with this method, especially in this internet age of instant gratification and cheat-to-win, but give it a go. it's incredibly rewarding.

poirqc
26-01-2017, 19:30
Precisely - the stakes are raised and the consequences are real. It's amazing how intense the atmosphere is, especially towards the end of a long race.



That's why I do it in the GT classes where the AI is pretty well behaved.

Doing the career this way will make you drive a lot more defensively, and make you choose your attacks with great care. I know a lot of people will struggle with this method, especially in this internet age of instant gratification and cheat-to-win, but give it a go. it's incredibly rewarding.

I'm not a GT3 guy. I drive mostly stick shift stuff.

Most of the time, the AI behave correctly. But what has burnt the AI experience for me is that on different tracks, there's always a spot where the AI will be easier to pass. Where it get really slower than the rest of the track. This predictability takes away the mind game i can find in online races.

Do they behave similarly in the GT3 class or the passing opportunity are more random?

Thanks,

hkraft300
26-01-2017, 21:50
The whole discussion is pointless. Using a pad and then judging realism? Come on...

I played for >1 year before getting a wheel. You are confusing immersion with realism, and judging the accuracy of a SIM by its ffb.
With a gamepad I knew how real pcars is in the first half lap. Because for every input I made to the game, with my trusty little DualShock4, I received a realistic output from the game, on and off track (ie driving and tuning).
Yes, ffb brought an extra dimension to the game. Massive fun factor aside, I can now feel much better soft vs hard suspension tunes, for example.
So yes, realism can very well be judged on a gamepad.

Cumulonimbus
27-01-2017, 10:12
One thing I can heartily recommend (if you have the patience) is to start a career and run full-length practice, qualifying and race sessions - but do them on the actual days, real time. So if it's Friday in the 'real world', you'll be practicing, then qualifying on the Saturday, then running the sprint and main races on the Sunday. You can obviously exit career between times and do other stuff in the game, but try to keep the discipline of using those days for the career.

The sense of anticipation builds between races, and if you stuff up in the main race after being in a good position (important - no cheating or restarts allowed!) you have to stew on it for a week before trying to claw back some ground. Similarly, if you nail a podium then you have a week before you can try to maintain the momentum. Running full practice and quali sessions makes the actual races incredibly tense, and because of the time invested, makes them actually mean something. And the points system means that getting a DNF isn't the end of your season. Getting any points at all still feels like an achievement against tough opposition if you set AI correctly so you aren't just placing top three every race. I actually took great satisfaction finishing in the top ten at the end of the season.

Running career like this in the GT classes (where the AI is superb) and with full damage on (remember, no restarting - take the loss like a man and learn from it, even if you go out on the first corner) is incredibly rewarding.

Yes this is excellent. Actually planning to do this with Formula 1 this year, per grand prix choosing the best fitting (or if possibe the same) circuit and after finishing watching Formula 1, do it yourself. So sunday afteroon 14-16 formula 1, 16-18 formula A :-) 100% difficulty, 100% length, full damage.

Mascot
27-01-2017, 11:27
Yes this is excellent. Actually planning to do this with Formula 1 this year, per grand prix choosing the best fitting (or if possibe the same) circuit and after finishing watching Formula 1, do it yourself. So sunday afteroon 14-16 formula 1, 16-18 formula A :-) 100% difficulty, 100% length, full damage.

Good man! It really gets the butterflies going if you qualify in pole position then have a whole day of nervous anticipation before the actual race. Similarly if you cock up qualifying and are starting way down the grid, you have a whole day of regret to think about your mistakes and plan a way to rectify them in the race.

It does take discipline and you have to be totally honest with yourself but everyone should at least try it, even if it's only for one week. There's even a certain level of satisfaction in manning up and retiring from a race after one lap because of a bad crash, even if you qualified in pole. It makes the next race even more important.

F1_Racer68
05-02-2017, 19:42
Not criticizing OPs idea of "fun", but I will respectfully disgree with the OPs definition of "real".

When I tune my GT3 car using all of the tools available to me and the race a field of 20 drivers online in 5 different makes of car and we are all within 1 second of each other in lap times and also right in line with real world GT3 lap times at that same track, THAT is what I call real.

This whole idea that the sim isn't real because the GT3s don't spin every lap drives me batty. The thing most people seem to forget (or not realize in the first place) is that real GT3 cars are DESIGNED TO BE EASY TO DRIVE!! They are built for, and targetted at gentlemen drivers. In other words amatuer drivers, not pros. Yes, most GT series are now using the standard, but the original concept by SRO was to create a race car based on a production model that would be manageable by a gentleman driver. That is why they have TCS, ABS and SC. That is also what differentiates them from GTE (which your M3 GT is BTW). GTE does not have ABS or SC.