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Neilly
10-12-2016, 09:06
Hi
I've made myself a H-shifter for my 2 main driving games - pCars and eurotruck simulator. Its based on a design I found online. Can't post the link here but if you want to see it just google "$20 diy h shifter" and there is a youtube link and a hackaday page.

The way it works is by using switches which are held down when the gearstick is in that position, and register the car as being in that gear. When the gearstick is moved, that switch is no longer pressed and the car returns to neutral. Now, this works fine in ETS2, where you can hold down the gear buttons and it will stay in that gear, and once you release the button it will return to neutral, but in pCars, it doesn't work this way. In pCars the gears act as toggles, so if I move the gearstick to position 1, it will shift to gear 1. If I move the gearstick, it stays in gear 1.

Does anyone know if I can change pCars to be like ETS2, where you hold a gear down instead of toggling it? Please let me know if I haven't explained very well, and I'll try and explain better.
Thanks!

Jussi Karjalainen
10-12-2016, 10:58
What cars did you try it with? The behavior you're describing sounds like a sequential shifter car, but all of the H-gate cars I've tried do actually go into neutral when you take the shifter out of gear.

Neilly
10-12-2016, 12:22
What cars did you try it with? The behavior you're describing sounds like a sequential shifter car, but all of the H-gate cars I've tried do actually go into neutral when you take the shifter out of gear.

I tried it with a lykan hypersport which I believe was a h gate car but it was over a week ago that i tried so I could be wrong. I'm getting home in a few hours so I'll try with a variety of cars and let you know.

Roger Prynne
10-12-2016, 13:03
So the way you are describing it, is that you have to have your hand on the gearshift all the time?

Mad Al
10-12-2016, 15:05
So the way you are describing it, is that you have to have your hand on the gearshift all the time?

Google dear boy.. ;)

http://forums.hackaday.com/viewtopic.php?p=3124

has clasps to hold the gear

Neilly
10-12-2016, 15:11
Mad Al is correct. The clasps hold the gear stick against the switches and also help simulate the feeling of a proper gearstick

MaximusN
10-12-2016, 15:32
Wikipedia says the Lykan has a 6-speed Sequential manual transmission or 7-speed Dual-clutch transmission. Neither of those would go to neutral between gears if I'm correct. And for both you shouldn't be able to skip gears too if I'm correct. So I'd test with another car which has a manual. Like the 1M.

Roger Prynne
10-12-2016, 22:23
Google dear boy.. ;)

http://forums.hackaday.com/viewtopic.php?p=3124

has clasps to hold the gear

Ah Ha :rolleyes:

DreamsKnight
10-12-2016, 23:44
I tried it with a lykan hypersport which I believe was a h gate car but it was over a week ago that i tried so I could be wrong. I'm getting home in a few hours so I'll try with a variety of cars and let you know.

you build yourself h shifter and then you try it with a modern hyper car. are you kidding me? :D

use the ktm x bow to do your test. easy to drive, and manual transmission. :D

Jussi Karjalainen
10-12-2016, 23:45
Lykan in-game is a paddleshifter to my knowledge. Try it with the BMW 1M Coupe, that is for 100% certain an H-gate.

poirqc
11-12-2016, 03:43
Lets say you want to go from 2nd to 5th:

if a car uses sequencial, it'll go like 2-3-4-5. If it uses a h-pattern box, it'll go from 2nd to 5th righ away. Whenever i op into a car, it's the first thing i check. If it's the former, i use my paddles. If it's the latter, i use my h-pattern shifter.

So this means i always pick car that fits the later! ;) :D

DreamsKnight
11-12-2016, 11:35
Lets say you want to go from 2nd to 5th:

if a car uses sequencial, it'll go like 2-3-4-5. If it uses a h-pattern box, it'll go from 2nd to 5th righ away. Whenever i op into a car, it's the first thing i check. If it's the former, i use my paddles. If it's the latter, i use my h-pattern shifter.

So this means i always pick car that fits the later! ;) :D

i simply try to change gears with paddle. if don't work it is a h shifter. :D

poirqc
11-12-2016, 12:57
i simply try to change gears with paddle. if don't work it is a h shifter. :D

On my setup, both inputs works all the time.

Jussi Karjalainen
11-12-2016, 16:34
Lets say you want to go from 2nd to 5th:

if a car uses sequencial, it'll go like 2-3-4-5. If it uses a h-pattern box, it'll go from 2nd to 5th righ away. Whenever i op into a car, it's the first thing i check. If it's the former, i use my paddles. If it's the latter, i use my h-pattern shifter.

So this means i always pick car that fits the later! ;) :DDepending on the shift timing it might not show the gears engaging when going from 2->5, but you can still hear the multiple shift clunks. =)

poirqc
11-12-2016, 18:30
Depending on the shift timing it might not show the gears engaging when going from 2->5, but you can still hear the multiple shift clunks. =)

I'm not sure i understand what you mean.

Not show on a manual or it's going really fast on a sequential?

Jussi Karjalainen
11-12-2016, 19:23
I'm not sure i understand what you mean.

Not show on a manual or it's going really fast on a sequential?Going really fast on sequential, it'll just show the N but you'll hear it going through the gears usually. =)

DreamsKnight
12-12-2016, 00:43
On my setup, both inputs works all the time.

Never happen to me. Tried again today. Do you use autoclutch?

poirqc
12-12-2016, 02:19
Never happen to me. Tried again today. Do you use autoclutch?

No auto-clutch.

Neilly
12-12-2016, 07:06
Update - tried with 1M and Focus RS. Neither work, they all act as toggles. A friend of mine asked why it needed to go back to neutral and I guess it doesn't really, but I'd still like it to. So if anyone knows how to make it do it, I'd appreciate the help. If not, I'll make do without :)

DreamsKnight
12-12-2016, 08:31
Update - tried with 1M and Focus RS. Neither work, they all act as toggles. A friend of mine asked why it needed to go back to neutral and I guess it doesn't really, but I'd still like it to. So if anyone knows how to make it do it, I'd appreciate the help. If not, I'll make do without :)

so the point is: if you insert the 1st the 2nd etc, everything works. but you can't go to N.

how do you control switches? do you have soldered them to keyboard or a numpad?

Neilly
12-12-2016, 08:33
Yeah it's micro switches soldered to a game controllers pcb

DreamsKnight
12-12-2016, 10:59
Yeah it's micro switches soldered to a game controllers pcb

have you soldered them where in the pad? i never done the work but i read about it. if you use the arrows (up down/left right) which provide 8 controls for microsoft windows (up, up+right, right, etc etc) i think the neutral position of arrows in gamepad became the neutral position also for the gearbox you build.

It is a hypothesis!

edit: for arrow i mean the direction control of this, just cause i am not sure about my english. :D

http://www.themarysue.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/playstation-controller.jpeg

Haiden
12-12-2016, 11:27
Never happen to me. Tried again today. Do you use autoclutch?

Same. Paddles and H-shift buttons are mapped separately. Not sure how they would respond the same as paddles if you've mapped them. TBH, I like that they don't, because I don't show the wheel or driver arms, and I'm not always sure which transmission types some cars have.

Sequential and paddles are the same, though, but only because I linked them in the Fanatec driver control panel. Otherwise, I don't think they would be interchangeable.

Jussi Karjalainen
12-12-2016, 11:49
Really weird, because the cars definitely should go back to neutral on a properly set up controller. All of the shifters (Logitech, Thrustmaster and Fanatec) I've tried so far work properly in this situation.

Mad Al
12-12-2016, 11:53
Simple question... what are you using other than the shifter, as you never actually mentioned anything?

Neilly
12-12-2016, 15:52
I've got a logitech driving force gt.

Jussi Karjalainen
13-12-2016, 06:07
Can you take a screenshot of your controller settings (the screen where you can select the preset and then the assignments screen) and post them here? That could potentially help us figure out what's going on.

Neilly
13-12-2016, 07:32
236477236478
I like the Lykan ( ͡ ͜ʖ ͡)

DreamsKnight
13-12-2016, 07:56
if you have a driving force gt, which is a wheel. why do you have selected the profile of a joypad?

Neilly
13-12-2016, 11:37
Because I don't have the wheel plugged in right now. I'm just testing the gear shifter as a game pad. Once I know it works I can just reset the preset to the dfgt

Mad Al
13-12-2016, 11:56
Because I don't have the wheel plugged in right now. I'm just testing the gear shifter as a game pad. Once I know it works I can just reset the preset to the dfgt

Then test it with the correct controller.. it's highly possible that the way a game pad is coded is entirely different to a wheel.. in fact I have no idea why they even allow for having separate gear selection buttons in the game pad settings

cluck
13-12-2016, 13:12
I think, in answer to your original question, it is not possible to change the way gear change triggers are handled by the game. I thought this had come up before? Unless it has since been patched, I thought it worked that pCARS expects to receive a traditional quick "click on/click off" type signal from the shifter to say "that's x gear engaged". What your type of shifter does is permanently send the x gear signal to pCARS.

The only solution I can think of is to find some way of holding the shifter a few mms back from the switch after it has 'engaged' a gear. Possibly some type of 'gate' within the shifter's path, that can swing both ways (careful now!) that is on a spring strong enough to stop the shifter opening it by itself but opens with a small amount of force whilst you move the shifter.

Haiden
13-12-2016, 13:25
Then test it with the correct controller.. it's highly possible that the way a game pad is coded is entirely different to a wheel.. in fact I have no idea why they even allow for having separate gear selection buttons in the game pad settings

^^ This. It's impossible to troubleshoot something when you're not using the actual configuration/setup the device is meant for. It's like using a Logitech driver for a Kensington mouse. :)

Sankyo
13-12-2016, 13:36
I think, in answer to your original question, it is not possible to change the way gear change triggers are handled by the game. I thought this had come up before? Unless it has since been patched, I thought it worked that pCARS expects to receive a traditional quick "click on/click off" type signal from the shifter to say "that's x gear engaged". What your type of shifter does is permanently send the x gear signal to pCARS.

The only solution I can think of is to find some way of holding the shifter a few mms back from the switch after it has 'engaged' a gear. Possibly some type of 'gate' within the shifter's path, that can swing both ways (careful now!) that is on a spring strong enough to stop the shifter opening it by itself but opens with a small amount of force whilst you move the shifter.


My Fanatec shifter does exactly the "hold button until disengaged from gear" thing you're describing, so this cannot be the issue.

cluck
13-12-2016, 13:39
My Fanatec shifter does exactly the "hold button until disengaged from gear" thing you're describing, so this cannot be the issue.Ah, OK, thanks for clearing that up Remco :). I thought I'd read that problem existing in the past but I am either mistaken (highly likely) or it was pre-release maybe?Or maybe it was for a different game entirely :o.


EDIT : I wonder then if the problem is simply down to configuration in pCARS and the h-shifter's driver. Having done a very quick read, it appears that you have to assign specific keys as the 'gears' in the driver and match those in-game. Assuming they are all set up correctly, I don't know what to suggest other than messing with settings in the shifter's driver to see if something in there needs changing to make it work with pCARS?


EDIT : From the hackaday web-site, assuming you are using the same driver that they show screenshots from, have you tried both the 'Include Neutral' and 'Exclude Neutral' to see if one of those maybe solves the problem?

Mad Al
13-12-2016, 14:29
Ah, OK, thanks for clearing that up Remco :). I thought I'd read that problem existing in the past but I am either mistaken (highly likely) or it was pre-release maybe?Or maybe it was for a different game entirely :o.


EDIT : I wonder then if the problem is simply down to configuration in pCARS and the h-shifter's driver. Having done a very quick read, it appears that you have to assign specific keys as the 'gears' in the driver and match those in-game. Assuming they are all set up correctly, I don't know what to suggest other than messing with settings in the shifter's driver to see if something in there needs changing to make it work with pCARS?


EDIT : From the hackaday web-site, assuming you are using the same driver that they show screenshots from, have you tried both the 'Include Neutral' and 'Exclude Neutral' to see if one of those maybe solves the problem?

A lot of the older titles had a tick box to hold button for gear, so when not engaged they would drop to N. The other option is to have a separate key for N (which PCars doesn't have anyway, otherwise I would have suggested a NOR gate and some extra wiring :))

Jussi Karjalainen
13-12-2016, 15:47
[SIZE=1][SIZE=2]I think, in answer to your original question, it is not possible to change the way gear change triggers are handled by the game. I thought this had come up before? Unless it has since been patched, I thought it worked that pCARS expects to receive a traditional quick "click on/click off" type signal from the shifter to say "that's x gear engaged". What your type of shifter does is permanently send the x gear signal to pCARS.G25 and TH8A shifters have the button pressed down all the time the gear is in. That's how the game knows when you go into neutral, the buttons stops being pressed.

Jussi Karjalainen
13-12-2016, 15:49
You really should set it up fully for the screenshot, so that the wheel is the primary controller you set up for and the shifter is just the secondary (or tertiary). In that screen you don't even have a clutch button set up so you'll obviously be stuck on automatic clutch.
[SIZE=1][SIZE=2]I think, in answer to your original question, it is not possible to change the way gear change triggers are handled by the game. I thought this had come up before? Unless it has since been patched, I thought it worked that pCARS expects to receive a traditional quick "click on/click off" type signal from the shifter to say "that's x gear engaged". What your type of shifter does is permanently send the x gear signal to pCARS.G25 and TH8A shifters have the button pressed down all the time the gear is in. That's how the game knows when you go into neutral, the buttons stops being pressed.

Neilly
13-12-2016, 15:56
This seems like its getting way too complicated for me lol. To be honest, the shifter works perfectly and I'm happy with it as it is, so I'm not going to mess around with stuff I don't know about just to fix a small thing which doesn't actually cause any problems. When I posted the thread, I thought maybe it would be as simple as changing a config file or a setting in the game, but obviously not. But thanks anyway to all of you who tried to help! :D

Mad Al
13-12-2016, 18:38
This seems like its getting way too complicated for me lol. To be honest, the shifter works perfectly and I'm happy with it as it is, so I'm not going to mess around with stuff I don't know about just to fix a small thing which doesn't actually cause any problems. When I posted the thread, I thought maybe it would be as simple as changing a config file or a setting in the game, but obviously not. But thanks anyway to all of you who tried to help! :D

Well as a quick test, I tried assigning the buttons on an old joystick as gears and tried with an xbox controller and a wheel (actually I tried it with both my wheels).. result, on the pad, it acted as a latched control (i.e. once pressed it stayed in gear after being released) on the wheels it acted as expected and only stayed in gear when the button was held, going to N when released..

in other words, it should work as you expected when used with a wheel, not with a gamepad

Neilly
13-12-2016, 19:11
Ok you've now made me feel like a moron. I plugged in my wheel, set the presets up, configured the shifter in settings, jumped into a game in a 1M, and voila - it works. Its now shifting back to neutral when the gear is released. I feel like an idiot for not trying this before, but I'd made my shifter from a controller, so I thought it made sense to use a controller preset when testing it out. It seems the answer was staring me in the face with a nice big neon sign to tell me it was there, and I still ignored it. Feel free to laugh at my dumbassery :)

But thanks Mad Al, you win (づ ͡ ͜ʖ ͡)づ

Jussi Karjalainen
14-12-2016, 09:21
Great to hear you got it working, enjoy the fruits of your labor. =)