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Ulti
20-12-2016, 14:17
I would like to know if there are any other people out there that feels like ditching Project Cars for GT Sport... Like that game looks like what a racing sim should look like. Project Cars was personally a very fun game, but after about 50 hours of playing I kinda got bored due to the open server being full of total idiots so the only way to enjoy the game is with other proper racers and scheduled events.

Also...

GT Sport has pit crews and safety cars. YES... this is a big thing for me and only that can make me swap over to it. Don't get me wrong... PCars is a good game, but IMO I don't think its worth the money. It feels rushed off... It feels unfinished. I hope they shine and polish PCars 2 a bit more.

Well thats my 2 cents.

Tell me yours :)

Grijo
20-12-2016, 14:22
236531

Sankyo
20-12-2016, 14:23
Not going into the other points of your posting, but what makes you think that the GT Sport open servers will not be full of idiots? :)

Ulti
20-12-2016, 14:30
1. Well it will probably will, but it looks like a very solid game. I've played all GT's except GT6. The campaigns are quite fun specially since I like grinding game. Start all the way at the bottom. No cars and have to work for your cars. I think PCars Multiplayer needed that... Start from the bottom like the campaigns so that noobs can get some insight on how to drive.

2. The graphics... That game looks stunning. PCars does too, but GT takes the cake by far with the 4K and insane HDR. It looks inviting.

Leper Messiah
20-12-2016, 14:38
Not had a GT since the abomination that was gt5......no interest at all in Kaz's "vision" anymore and with the likes of PCARS/AC/AMS/RF2/RRE I have no need.

SlowBloke
20-12-2016, 15:10
If its anything like normal GT - then not in the slightest.

They are investing in sooo many pointless cars. The upgrade system does nothing for me. Constant screeching tyres fraying my nerves.

I could not care less about photo modes.

The handling is meh... ffb more meh....

They have been rehashing since the mid 90s and it never feels like it really moves forward with real impact where it counts - on the track.

In terms of your reasons for giving up on Project Cars......

50 hours... you have not even skimmed the surface.

Im close to 1000 hours played and there is still so much to learn and enjoy - so in terms of value for money - by far the most cost effective game I have every purchased (and been buying triple A games since the SNES/Megadrive days).

There are more ways to enjoy the game than just organised races - although I agree they add a lot of longevity. Time trials, Race AI and my fav pick up and play with AI for 5/10 laps for 20 mins before bed :)

Pit crews and safety cars although a nice add on - I would not swap them for another 5 or 10 really nice tracks.

Mind you - nothing wrong with not being into Project Cars anymore or even ever... Theres a bunch of games I dont enjoy others do.

Just really dont buy into GT offering anyone who is remotely into SIM racing anything beyond a quick blast arcade game on the PS4. They have soooo much to invest but they put it in all the wrong areas for me.

Konan
20-12-2016, 15:38
Well now...i bought every GT game that has been released so far thinking i bought the cream of the crops of racing games....until Pcars came out...man! What an eye opener that was! Never looked back since...
As a console player only,i can truthfully say:best sim since TOCA...
Just my two cents...

Grijo
20-12-2016, 16:02
I will never understand some things:

1 - Why people care that much about animated pit crews? I know, itīs cool but, I saw some videos of the F1 2016 game and, sometimes, the animation is so bad that is better to not have one. Besides that, Project Cars is a great game in various aspects, but them come somebody and tell "No animated pit crews? Thatīs it for me.". In other words, they ignores every good aspect of the game, physics, great selection and number of cars and tracks, weather and time options...but it donīt have animated pit crews...this game sucks lol.

2 - Why people want to elect ONE GREAT GAME. I play Dirt and Sebastien Loeb Rally Evo for different reasons and I like both because of it. Same for Project Cars and Assetto Corsa. Both games have your strong points and weaknesses but, in the end of the day, those games have something good to offer and thatīs why I play. And if Gran Turismo Sport turn into a good simulator, probably I will play too. Thatīs it, why choose if I can play all? I can understand a people that do not like a game, but why this comparision, especially when you use to compare two simulators, the fact that one have animated pit crew, and the other not?

DreamsKnight
20-12-2016, 16:40
I would like to know if there are any other people out there that feels like ditching Project Cars for GT Sport... Like that game looks like what a racing sim should look like. Project Cars was personally a very fun game, but after about 50 hours of playing I kinda got bored due to the open server being full of total idiots so the only way to enjoy the game is with other proper racers and scheduled events.

Also...

GT Sport has pit crews and safety cars. YES... this is a big thing for me and only that can make me swap over to it. Don't get me wrong... PCars is a good game, but IMO I don't think its worth the money. It feels rushed off... It feels unfinished. I hope they shine and polish PCars 2 a bit more.

Well thats my 2 cents.

Tell me yours :)


uff, console players. :cower:

I'm still praying for the day when you'll know that simulators and gt/forza are two very different types of games, not comparable and the only thing in common is the presence of cars.

You are comparing tomb raider (the old and true one) with COD.

pcars is comparable with other sims, like: assetto corsa, raceroom, automobilista, rfactor.

someone who knows what is a simulator and expects to play a simulator searchs for:

-a realistic physics model
-a not grinding career.
-the way to do a 100laps race from free praticse to the race itself.
-tyre management
-brake management
-track management
-immersion in the most realistic way (including night
-adjustable Fov and adjustable cockpit view
-mods.

no one of the sims i writed above have all of this things together, but each one has the most of them.

GT or FORZA don't have one single point above.

and just to be clear, i bought a 360 years ago just to play FORZA4 and the first time i tried Pcars i was expecting a game like Forza, not a sim. so mine it's not hate, simply consciousness. :)

Haiden
20-12-2016, 16:45
I really don't care how it looks, as long as it's not garage. The physics and the FFB are far more important, and neither GT or Forza has ever done better than PCars in those areas. Also, the constant delays with GT should tell you something. Basically, don't get your hopes up.

Also, are you sure it 4K, and not upscaled 1080 graphics? Because that's the typical norm for PS4.

Jezza819
20-12-2016, 17:29
There are more ways to enjoy the game than just organised races - although I agree they add a lot of longevity. Time trials, Race AI and my fav pick up and play with AI for 5/10 laps for 20 mins before bed :)



That's all I've been doing since PCars came out and even after all this time I still get a thrill out of it every time I play. I'll run 2 or 3 10 lap races across three different classes, random starting position, race only with no practice or qualifying, time progress set to x10, varying starting times of the day. I can't ever recall any two races being identical after all of this time. Sometimes I can start in the back and barely squeak out a win, sometime I win pretty handily, or sometimes I can start towards the front and I get my butt handed to me.

That's all I want out of the game and it delivers. I don't do multiplayer or career. I just run my little 10 lappers and I'm as happy as I can be. I've played every GT game since GT4 and I just can't see the new one being that much better than the previous ones to make me want to abandon PCars.

Konan
20-12-2016, 17:30
Just a comment on the "rushed of" part...Pcars was a totally new concept which was never seen before in the gaming industry...
With that came a lot of "problems" as it isn't easy to try and satisfy a community you invited yourself.
SMS tried it's hardest to give everyone (not only WMD members) what they wanted...some features made it...some didn't.
For those features that didn't make it an explanation has been given...the one you're talking about was left out because of the fact SMS DIDN'T want to RUSH by putting half finished features into the game...
Instead of delaying the game any further (which is what GT up to now is doing) they decided to release the game without animated pitcrews...

FS7
20-12-2016, 17:50
... ditching Project Cars for GT Sport...
It sounds like you haven't been following the news about GTS.

-Graphics look nice on trailers, but is the gameplay going to look any good? GT6 also looked great in trailers but the actual game had issues with screen tearing, Bathurst had flickering issues that were never fixed.
-GTS might have animated pticrews & SC, but how about mechanical damage? Fuel & tyre wear in all game modes? Full race weekends in all game modes? Decent AI to compete against? So far I haven't seen any indication of any of those features being available in GTS.
-PCars has 35 track locations with dynamic weather & time change & 125 cars across several different classes, most of them are cars that are interesting to drive. GTS iirc will have 19 track locations (you set weather & time of the day before race starts but no dynamic weather or time change) & 140 cars, and based on what we've seen in previous games there will be a good amount of clones, not as many car classes as PCars & classes will most likely be unbalanced.
-There's no indication of GTS having a proper career mode, the screens & videos shown so far indicated that the offline campaign will be simply a series of tests/time trials, no actual races against AI. Races against AI are only available in arcade mode, only quick races, no full race weekends, only 3 levels of difficulty (AI still sucks even on the highest one), no multiclass racing.

There's nothing wrong with buying multiple games, I just don't see anything that GTS does better than PCars in terms of actual sim racing experience.
I spent hundreds of hours playing GT3-GT6, but eventually got tired of the same problems game after game and the lack of basic features most other sims had, so I sold all my console stuff and moved to PC sims. I bet GTR is better than GTS in terms of actual racing.

BTW, there's already a GTS thread:

http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?47125-GT-Sport

Konan
20-12-2016, 17:59
Those were two of the things i really hated in the games:no challenging AI and non existent damage model...and so far i haven't seen any evidence this is going to improve in GTS

DECATUR PLAYA
20-12-2016, 20:18
The fact that PCARS is almost 2 years old and your comparing a brand new game to it answers many questions in this thread. I'm not ditching PCARS just waiting patiently on PCARS 2.

Ulti
20-12-2016, 23:49
uff, console players. :cower:

I'm still praying for the day when you'll know that simulators and gt/forza are two very different types of games, not comparable and the only thing in common is the presence of cars.

You are comparing tomb raider (the old and true one) with COD.

pcars is comparable with other sims, like: assetto corsa, raceroom, automobilista, rfactor.

someone who knows what is a simulator and expects to play a simulator searchs for:

-a realistic physics model
-a not grinding career.
-the way to do a 100laps race from free praticse to the race itself.
-tyre management
-brake management
-track management
-immersion in the most realistic way (including night
-adjustable Fov and adjustable cockpit view
-mods.

no one of the sims i writed above have all of this things together, but each one has the most of them.

GT or FORZA don't have one single point above.

and just to be clear, i bought a 360 years ago just to play FORZA4 and the first time i tried Pcars i was expecting a game like Forza, not a sim. so mine it's not hate, simply consciousness. :)

I'm on PC mate

Ulti
20-12-2016, 23:57
Just a comment on the "rushed of" part...Pcars was a totally new concept which was never seen before in the gaming industry...
With that came a lot of "problems" as it isn't easy to try and satisfy a community you invited yourself.
SMS tried it's hardest to give everyone (not only WMD members) what they wanted...some features made it...some didn't.
For those features that didn't make it an explanation has been given...the one you're talking about was left out because of the fact SMS DIDN'T want to RUSH by putting half finished features into the game...
Instead of delaying the game any further (which is what GT up to now is doing) they decided to release the game without animated pitcrews...

I hope then that PCars 2 comes at as a superior racing sim over the others. Atm i still think its the best by some margain. Age doesnt really matter. There are loads of oldies that still outshine newer games that can't match their features.

Thing is we all have our things we like and I remember growing up and play GT on a PS2... I loved looking at the pit crews go to work. It just feels satisfying. Thus i wished it could be part of PCars.

I think it would be best for SMS to take their time on PCars 2. Push it to its full potential.

Haiden
21-12-2016, 00:48
I'm on PC mate

If you're on PC. I honestly don't know how you can be so entrenched with GT. On console, it's probably one of the top sim titles. But in the PC space, it wouldn't even be an honorable mention. There are just too many good sims on PC. GT might look prettier than most PC sims, but when it comes to physics and feel, even old PC sims are better.

Zpectre87
21-12-2016, 03:20
1 - Why people care that much about animated pit crews? I know, itīs cool but, I saw some videos of the F1 2016 game and, sometimes, the animation is so bad that is better to not have one. Besides that, Project Cars is a great game in various aspects, but them come somebody and tell "No animated pit crews? Thatīs it for me.". In other words, they ignores every good aspect of the game, physics, great selection and number of cars and tracks, weather and time options...but it donīt have animated pit crews...this game sucks lol.

This was axed because the variety of cars in the game made it too difficult to create glitchless animation for every car... This is an interesting feature but it's not as important as people think because it's mostly just for show.

I'd be personally more interested in manual pit control myself, but, considering I was terrible at that in F1 2010, I'm not looking forward to it. :D

hkraft300
21-12-2016, 06:21
If you're on PC. I honestly don't know how you can be so entrenched with GT.



Thing is we all have our things we like and I remember growing up and play GT on a PS2...
.

There it is mate. Nostalgia. Rose tinted glasses and what not.
Thing is: GT wasn't ground breaking by any means even in its prime. Because TOCA. However it did have a massive road car list. And that's about it.
Honestly, aside from graphics updates, GT has hardly moved forward.

On console we now have pcars and AC. Both will be 1+ year old when GTS comes out and still be far better. By the time GT7 comes out, the PS5 will be due so it'll be behind yet again. Will it be able to compete against pcars3? Not a chance.
If you're missing the grind, start career mode from karts in pcars. I quite felt the first few seasons to be a grind.

Grijo
21-12-2016, 10:40
Those were two of the things i really hated in the games:no challenging AI and non existent damage model...and so far i haven't seen any evidence this is going to improve in GTS

+1. AI in GT was (or is) so dumb. The AI in Pcars, in my opinion, itīs great! Sometimes you see one AI fighting against another one and they do not give up, sometimes they fight so hard that eventually one of them goes out of the track.

Grijo
21-12-2016, 10:48
uff, console players. :cower:
...


Another thing that I do not understand: why some people like to divide a group that likes the same thing (Pcars or simulators in general in this case)? And they put in a way like if all console users are dumb or something like that and PC users know all. The worst part is that the "console user label" gone to a person whoīs gaming on PC. In my opinion, thatīs why people starts war, instead of dividing groups, why not unite the group? Thatīs a opinion from a dumb console user...

Bultaco85
21-12-2016, 11:33
I actually think that PCARS looks better for what iīve seen.

Bultaco85
21-12-2016, 11:34
+1. AI in GT was (or is) so dumb. The AI in Pcars, in my opinion, itīs great! Sometimes you see one AI fighting against another one and they do not give up, sometimes they fight so hard that eventually one of them goes out of the track.



Completely agree, PCARS AI isnīt perfect but is the best of the racing games in cosole...by far!

Konan
21-12-2016, 11:34
Another thing that I do not understand: why some people like to divide a group that likes the same thing (Pcars or simulators in general in this case)? And they put in a way like if all console users are dumb or something like that and PC users know all. The worst part is that the "console user label" gone to a person whoīs gaming on PC. In my opinion, thatīs why people starts war, instead of dividing groups, why not unite the group? Thatīs a opinion from a dumb console user...

I'm sure he didn't mean it that way bro...

Haiden
21-12-2016, 11:36
There it is mate. Nostalgia. Rose tinted glasses and what not.
Thing is: GT wasn't ground breaking by any means even in its prime. Because TOCA. However it did have a massive road car list. And that's about it.
Honestly, aside from graphics updates, GT has hardly moved forward.

On console we now have pcars and AC. Both will be 1+ year old when GTS comes out and still be far better. By the time GT7 comes out, the PS5 will be due so it'll be behind yet again. Will it be able to compete against pcars3? Not a chance.
If you're missing the grind, start career mode from karts in pcars. I quite felt the first few seasons to be a grind.

Honestly, the grind is one of the thing I hate about console racers. I don't buy sims to grind my time away in cars that I don't give two craps about. I buy sims to race. PCars, AMS, AC, rF2, and the like acknowledge an important thing. Sim enthusiast just want to race, at least the majority do. We've been playing racing titles so long that the grind is just an annoyance. It's mind numbingly repetitive, because regardless of how the developer tries to dress it up. It's the same thing in every single title. Doesn't matter how the system works. It's just a forced contest of short mad-dash sprint races that you have to ignore just about all race etiquette to win. The races aren't fun, but I have to do them to unlock the cars I want. Now consider that... I have to unlock the cars that I just paid for. Hell...why do you it's called a grind?

IMO, the concept of grind away to unlock items is a legacy relic from gaming's history, back before sim racing could even be considered a hobby. People did have experience in racers, so being forced to try all the cars and tracks was actually a good thing. It didn't feel repetitive, because the cars and tracks were new, like gaming in general, and leveling up had always been the model. And open platform wouldn't have worked back then, because there was little complexity to those games, not enough options and variety to really be able to setup good sessions. Without the grind, old school games would have been boring. Fast forward to today. That's not the case. The problem is some developers on the console side are still caught in the old school mentality/model, and even the ones that realize things have changed are caught between a rock and hard place, because they're straddling the line with their audience, trying to move into to sim, but still forced to cater to casual racers that find real sims to difficult to drive. These types of players need the grind, and that's why it will probably always exist in one form or another in the console space and more sim-cade titles.

Bultaco85
21-12-2016, 11:37
Man, you are spot on. People always need to choose sides, they donīt need to.

Iīm playind PCARS and AC , love both, they are great games!

Haiden
21-12-2016, 11:43
Another thing that I do not understand: why some people like to divide a group that likes the same thing (Pcars or simulators in general in this case)? And they put in a way like if all console users are dumb or something like that and PC users know all. The worst part is that the "console user label" gone to a person whoīs gaming on PC. In my opinion, thatīs why people starts war, instead of dividing groups, why not unite the group? Thatīs a opinion from a dumb console user...

I think it's because if you play, as I do now, you can't ignore the fact that there's a major difference in the experience. Some people can play both. Personally, I can't. I stopped racing on console as soon as I switched to PC. I mean seriously... what's the point? Why would I play PCars or AC on console when I have them both on PC, and in both cases, the PC version is better. Sure, I had a lot of friends on console, but I made new friends on PC.

I think the reason the debates get riled up is because there shouldn't be a debate. PC sims are better than console. That's not to say consoles can't be fun. And if you're fine with that experience--whether it be due to convenience, low complexity of use, or budget--there's nothing wrong with that. But PC does off sim racers more options and a richer overall experience. And that's only debatable if you've never played sims on a decent PC. Or, if you're just in denial. I never realized how underutilized my racing hardware was, until I switched to PC.

FS7
21-12-2016, 11:46
If you're missing the grind, start career mode from karts in pcars. I quite felt the first few seasons to be a grind.
Imo there are more interesting ways to grind in PCars's career even if one chooses to start somewhere other than the bottom tier.

Some disciplines have multiple regional championships, in order to play all of those regional championships one has to play multiple seasons in that discipline.
For disciplines that have different cars like GT4, GT3, LMP1, etc, one can play multiple seasons using a different car each season. Endurance tier has 4 different classes so one can play multiple seasons using a different car/class each season.
Certain invitationals allow one to use different cars/classes. For instance: one can play the Audi Ruapuna invitational every season and use a different class each season, same goes for Renault Masters Trophy, Le Mans 24hr, Lotus Vintage F1, etc.

Haiden
21-12-2016, 11:59
Imo there are more interesting ways to grind in PCars's career even if one chooses to start somewhere other than the bottom tier.

Some disciplines have multiple regional championships, in order to play all of those regional championships one has to play multiple seasons in that discipline.
For disciplines that have different cars like GT4, GT3, LMP1, etc, one can play multiple seasons using a different car each season. Endurance tier has 4 different classes so one can play multiple seasons using a different car/class each season.
Certain invitationals allow one to use different cars/classes. For instance: one can play the Audi Ruapuna invitational every season and use a different class each season, same goes for Renault Masters Trophy, Le Mans 24hr, Lotus Vintage F1, etc.

You're right there being more interesting options, but that's not really a grind, because all the class are available from the start. That's just a championship/season...LOL. If it were a grind, my only options at the start would be a few crap-arse road cars. :)

FS7
21-12-2016, 12:11
.. that's not really a grind, because all the class are available from the start.
Yes, all cars & classes are available from the start at anytime in solo mode, and all classes are available from the start when you start career. What I'm saying is that one has the option of ignoring solo mode and limiting themselves to using specific cars in a specific order in career if they feel like it so that they can mimic the "GT experience".

Personally I find it more rewarding to setup custom races in solo mode, though.

hkraft300
21-12-2016, 12:13
. If it were a grind, my only options at the start would be a few crap-arse road cars. :)

Like GT/FM.
You're right can't do that in pcars.
There aren't any crap arse road cars.

Grijo
21-12-2016, 12:16
I think it's because if you play, as I do now, you can't ignore the fact that there's a major difference in the experience. Some people can play both. Personally, I can't. I stopped racing on console as soon as I switched to PC. I mean seriously... what's the point? Why would I play PCars or AC on console when I have them both on PC, and in both cases, the PC version is better. Sure, I had a lot of friends on console, but I made new friends on PC.

I think the reason the debates get riled up is because there shouldn't be a debate. PC sims are better than console. That's not to say consoles can't be fun. And if you're fine with that experience--whether it be due to convenience, low complexity of use, or budget--there's nothing wrong with that. But PC does off sim racers more options and a richer overall experience. And that's only debatable if you've never played sims on a decent PC. Or, if you're just in denial. I never realized how underutilized my racing hardware was, until I switched to PC.

That I understand. But youīre talking about a richer experience that you can have in a PC simulator. I totally agree and Iīm not in denial, a Ferrari will always be better than my 2012 Fiat (my real car). I recently bought my very first wheel and I have to say: itīs a completely different experience (for better of course) and more, I donīt even know how I played so many years in a gamepad. But if you read carefully what I wrote, I never said anything about the experience. Itīs about how some people try to divide groups using the label "console user" in a bad way, like if all console users are dumb. And like I said, that label was used, in this case, for a person whoīs gaming in PC.

But I will not create a discussion, doesnīt worth it. I only wrote a thing that bothers me for a long time, people against people who have the same (or almost) interests.

DreamsKnight
21-12-2016, 13:49
Those were two of the things i really hated in the games:no challenging AI and non existent damage model...and so far i haven't seen any evidence this is going to improve in GTS

+1. AI in GT was (or is) so dumb. The AI in Pcars, in my opinion, itīs great! Sometimes you see one AI fighting against another one and they do not give up, sometimes they fight so hard that eventually one of them goes out of the track.

cause you're doing the wrong comparison between a simulator (pcars) and a more casual player oriented racing games (gt). speaking about one of the most important thing which make a racing game a simulator.


I'm on PC mate

i hope i helped to explain better differences between apple and carrots. :D and if you can, play both. i have a ps4 and could be a day i'll spend some time with gt, which seems to be a great game.


If you're on PC. I honestly don't know how you can be so entrenched with GT. On console, it's probably one of the top (sim titles) racing games. But in the PC space, it wouldn't even be an honorable mention. There are just too many good sims on PC. GT might look prettier than most PC sims, but when it comes to physics and feel, even old PC sims are better.
fixed.


I think it's because if you play, as I do now, you can't ignore the fact that there's a major difference in the experience. Some people can play both. Personally, I can't. I stopped racing on console as soon as I switched to PC. I mean seriously... what's the point? Why would I play PCars or AC on console when I have them both on PC, and in both cases, the PC version is better. Sure, I had a lot of friends on console, but I made new friends on PC.

I think the reason the debates get riled up is because there shouldn't be a debate. PC sims are better than console. That's not to say consoles can't be fun. And if you're fine with that experience--whether it be due to convenience, low complexity of use, or budget--there's nothing wrong with that. But PC does off sim racers more options and a richer overall experience. And that's only debatable if you've never played sims on a decent PC. Or, if you're just in denial. I never realized how underutilized my racing hardware was, until I switched to PC.

wrong. console have only two simulator titles, which are pcars and assetto corsa, and they are the same of the pc version.


Another thing that I do not understand: why some people like to divide a group that likes the same thing (Pcars or simulators in general in this case)? And they put in a way like if all console users are dumb or something like that and PC users know all. The worst part is that the "console user label" gone to a person whoīs gaming on PC. In my opinion, thatīs why people starts war, instead of dividing groups, why not unite the group? Thatīs a opinion from a dumb console user...


cause in italy gt sports (which is the topic) is an exclusive for ps4, which in italy is a console. i don't know if in your country you call ps4 PC, or if you have special crossplatform edition for gt sport. are you sure the problem is not yours and you are trying to read things i haven't writed? in friendship. :)

all the post i quoted above show you the error, common in console or ex-console users cause marketing call gt/forza simulator, but they aren't. in pc world (i could say in amiga also) is at least 20 year we have simulators, in console world is something new with pcars which broke the wall.

racing games and simulators are not synonyms, simulators are part of the largest family of racing games.

men and apes are primates, humans and apes have both hands, but men are not the same species. primates are racing games, hands are cars, man and apes are gt/forza and simulator (in the order you prefer or you call me racist.)

Grijo
21-12-2016, 14:07
cause you're doing the wrong comparison between a simulator (pcars) and a more casual player oriented racing games (gt). speaking about one of the most important thing which make a racing game a simulator.
...
wrong. console have only two simulator titles, which are pcars and assetto corsa, and they are the same of the pc version.
...
cause in italy gt sports (which is the topic) is an exclusive for ps4, which in italy is a console. i don't know if in your country you call ps4 PC, or if you have special crossplatform edition for gt sport. are you sure the problem is not yours and you are trying to read things i haven't writed? in friendship. :)

all the post i quoted above show you the error, common in console or ex-console users cause marketing call gt/forza simulator, but they aren't. in pc world (i could say in amiga also) is at least 20 year we have simulators, in console world is something new with pcars which broke the wall.

racing games and simulators are not synonyms, simulators are part of the largest family of racing games.

men and apes are primates, humans and apes have both hands, but men are not the same species. primates are racing games, hands are cars, man and apes are gt/forza and simulator (in the order you prefer or you call me racist.)

236539

Bealdor
21-12-2016, 14:18
Please don't turn this into another PC vs. console user debate guys.

Thanks.

DreamsKnight
21-12-2016, 14:20
Please don't turn this into another PC vs. console user debate guys.

Thanks.

in which way? simply explaining differeces between two different kind of games? sorry but it is not my attempt.

I am open to reading what part I'm wrong.

hkraft300
21-12-2016, 14:37
Language barrier.
Consoles are behind PC. There's no arguing that.
GT Sport will be PS4 exclusive. It's still going to be the same thing they've hashed for the last 15 years.

Haiden
21-12-2016, 14:47
That I understand. But youīre talking about a richer experience that you can have in a PC simulator. I totally agree and Iīm not in denial, a Ferrari will always be better than my 2012 Fiat (my real car). I recently bought my very first wheel and I have to say: itīs a completely different experience (for better of course) and more, I donīt even know how I played so many years in a gamepad. But if you read carefully what I wrote, I never said anything about the experience. Itīs about how some people try to divide groups using the label "console user" in a bad way, like if all console users are dumb. And like I said, that label was used, in this case, for a person whoīs gaming in PC.

But I will not create a discussion, doesnīt worth it. I only wrote a thing that bothers me for a long time, people against people who have the same (or almost) interests.

I know you didn't mention the experience. But I think not taking the overall experience into account is why these debates pop. Up they are not the same animal. And that's why they are grouped differently. PC players know this. Many console players want to believe they are on equal or semi-equal ground and that the difference between platforms isn't that much. I know, because I used to be one of them. It took all of ten minutes playing PCars on PC to realize I had been wrong. My wheel never felt so good on PC. And that was just the tip of the iceberg in terms of differences.


wrong. console have only two simulator titles, which are pcars and assetto corsa, and they are the same of the pc version.

The console version of both PCars and AC are not the same as the PC versions. AC's console version is a stripped down version of the PC sim. I remember listening to console players talk about their issues and such when it released, and I honestly couldn't believe they were talking about the same game. People I know that have played the console version, then switched to PC, all say the same thing--the console version is a weak attempt at a platform port, missing a lot. With PCars the FFB is way better on the PC side. The game itself is more stable and less buggy. And, as long as you have a decent CPU, the AI is better and seems far more intuitive, because, although they are using the same behavioral algorithms as the console, the PC CPU is more powerful and processes the calculations faster. Yes. The titles may be multi-platform, but, IMO, they are not the same.

FS7
21-12-2016, 14:55
console have only two simulator titles, which are pcars and assetto corsa, and they are the same of the pc version.
PCars, maybe. AC, not really.
PC version = Assetto Corsa.
Console version = Assetto half Corsa

There's several features missing in the console version afaik, no custom controller setup, no custom grids against AI, short replays, no photo mode, console versions are considerably behind with DLC content (they still haven't got Red Pack DLC iirc), and console versions don't support mods which considerably increase the game's replay value imo.

Haiden
21-12-2016, 15:13
PCars, maybe. AC, not really.
PC version = Assetto Corsa.
Console version = Assetto half Corsa

There's several features missing in the console version afaik, no custom controller setup, no custom grids against AI, short replays, no photo mode, console versions are considerably behind with DLC content (they still haven't got Red Pack DLC iirc), and console versions don't support mods which considerably increase the game's replay value imo.

Also, comparing feature to feature is misleading, a little apples to oranges. Because if you let someone play the console and PC versions of those games on the same rig/hardware setup, and then asked them which was the better experience, it's pretty obvious which one they'd choose. And the experience is why we play these games. Features are just a part of the experience. But a title could have the longest list of mouth-watering features you've ever seen, but if the physics and feel aren't up to par, that list won't matter.

Konan
21-12-2016, 15:24
cause you're doing the wrong comparison between a simulator (pcars) and a more casual player oriented racing games (gt). speaking about one of the most important thing which make a racing game a simulator.



i hope i helped to explain better differences between apple and carrots. :D and if you can, play both. i have a ps4 and could be a day i'll spend some time with gt, which seems to be a great game.


fixed.



wrong. console have only two simulator titles, which are pcars and assetto corsa, and they are the same of the pc version.




cause in italy gt sports (which is the topic) is an exclusive for ps4, which in italy is a console. i don't know if in your country you call ps4 PC, or if you have special crossplatform edition for gt sport. are you sure the problem is not yours and you are trying to read things i haven't writed? in friendship. :)

all the post i quoted above show you the error, common in console or ex-console users cause marketing call gt/forza simulator, but they aren't. in pc world (i could say in amiga also) is at least 20 year we have simulators, in console world is something new with pcars which broke the wall.

racing games and simulators are not synonyms, simulators are part of the largest family of racing games.

men and apes are primates, humans and apes have both hands, but men are not the same species. primates are racing games, hands are cars, man and apes are gt/forza and simulator (in the order you prefer or you call me racist.)

Mate...i don't mind being quoted....if it's for the right reasons that is...
I never compared GT with project cars because imo indeed it's comparing apples and pears...
The only thing i tried to explain is that (IIRC)while the game is actually called "the real driving simulator" by their developers,it actually doesn't come near it....we console players thought it was for years (not having any other options) until Pcars came out...

DreamsKnight
21-12-2016, 15:39
The console version of both PCars and AC are not the same as the PC versions. AC's console version is a stripped down version of the PC sim. I remember listening to console players talk about their issues and such when it released, and I honestly couldn't believe they were talking about the same game. People I know that have played the console version, then switched to PC, all say the same thing--the console version is a weak attempt at a platform port, missing a lot. With PCars the FFB is way better on the PC side. The game itself is more stable and less buggy. And, as long as you have a decent CPU, the AI is better and seems far more intuitive, because, although they are using the same behavioral algorithms as the console, the PC CPU is more powerful and processes the calculations faster. Yes. The titles may be multi-platform, but, IMO, they are not the same.


PCars, maybe. AC, not really.
PC version = Assetto Corsa.
Console version = Assetto half Corsa

There's several features missing in the console version afaik, no custom controller setup, no custom grids against AI, short replays, no photo mode, console versions are considerably behind with DLC content (they still haven't got Red Pack DLC iirc), and console versions don't support mods which considerably increase the game's replay value imo.

lol, my point was not literally. the core of the games, simulation physics etc is the same. :D They have not become arcade on consoles. :D

Zpectre87
21-12-2016, 15:50
Honestly, the grind is one of the thing I hate about console racers. I don't buy sims to grind my time away in cars that I don't give two craps about. I buy sims to race. PCars, AMS, AC, rF2, and the like acknowledge an important thing. Sim enthusiast just want to race, at least the majority do. We've been playing racing titles so long that the grind is just an annoyance. It's mind numbingly repetitive, because regardless of how the developer tries to dress it up. It's the same thing in every single title. Doesn't matter how the system works. It's just a forced contest of short mad-dash sprint races that you have to ignore just about all race etiquette to win. The races aren't fun, but I have to do them to unlock the cars I want. Now consider that... I have to unlock the cars that I just paid for. Hell...why do you it's called a grind?

IMO, the concept of grind away to unlock items is a legacy relic from gaming's history, back before sim racing could even be considered a hobby. People did have experience in racers, so being forced to try all the cars and tracks was actually a good thing. It didn't feel repetitive, because the cars and tracks were new, like gaming in general, and leveling up had always been the model. And open platform wouldn't have worked back then, because there was little complexity to those games, not enough options and variety to really be able to setup good sessions. Without the grind, old school games would have been boring. Fast forward to today. That's not the case. The problem is some developers on the console side are still caught in the old school mentality/model, and even the ones that realize things have changed are caught between a rock and hard place, because they're straddling the line with their audience, trying to move into to sim, but still forced to cater to casual racers that find real sims to difficult to drive. These types of players need the grind, and that's why it will probably always exist in one form or another in the console space and more sim-cade titles.

The grind is there because of the RPG crap that has infested gaming like a disease so in every freaking game you need to earn experience points/cash/whatever to unlock new powers. It's absolute crap.

Anyway, it'd be nice to see Gran Turismo turn out to be a half-decent game for once, because they do have the resources and the migration of racing simulations like pCARS and AC to the consoles has considerably raised the bar for the genre in these platforms.

Konan
21-12-2016, 16:01
Answer to the thread title (and to make a long story short)...i'm affraid you are...:cool:

Haiden
21-12-2016, 16:07
Mate...i don't mind being quoted....if it's for the right reasons that is...
I never compared GT with project cars because imo indeed it's comparing apples and pears...
The only thing i tried to explain is that (IIRC)while the game is actually called "the real driving simulator" by their developers,it actually doesn't come near it....we console players thought it was for years (not having any other options) until Pcars came out...

The long spanning lack of sim competition in console space allowed Turn10 and Polyphony to market their titles as sims for a decade. And it's one of the reasons why Forza and GT fans are almost incapable of accepting/admitting their favorite racing titles actually fall more on the sim-cade side of the spectrum. It's not easy realizing you've been lied to for years. :rolleyes: And I put myself in that category. I was a die-hard Forza fan since the first release, then PCars opened my eyes, and then sims on PC opened them even wider.

DreamsKnight
21-12-2016, 16:10
The grind is there because of the RPG crap that has infested gaming like a disease so in every freaking game you need to earn experience points/cash/whatever to unlock new powers. It's absolute crap.


ahahhha I make these words tattooed on my arm. and i love RPG games. :D

Haiden
21-12-2016, 16:13
lol, my point was not literally. the core of the games, simulation physics etc is the same. :D They have not become arcade on consoles. :D

So, you're saying the braking in AC is the same on console as it is on PC? And the FFB in PCars is just as detailed/dynamic on console as it is on PC?

These are just two aspects. But I think they illustrate that the cores are not the same. If they are, then they are being rendered differently between platforms.



The grind is there because of the RPG crap that has infested gaming like a disease so in every freaking game you need to earn experience points/cash/whatever to unlock new powers. It's absolute crap.

Anyway, it'd be nice to see Gran Turismo turn out to be a half-decent game for once, because they do have the resources and the migration of racing simulations like pCARS and AC to the consoles has considerably raised the bar for the genre in these platforms.

IDK.... I'm pretty sure the grind model was in place in video games before RPGs made the leap to the digital space.

Konan
21-12-2016, 16:15
Yep...already present on SEGA...

Haiden
21-12-2016, 16:47
Also... it makes sense in RPGs, where the whole point is to build/evolve you character. That evolution is a major aspect of the game. Without it, there's no role to play and you don't have an RPG.

Sim racing is different. I don't buy racing sims to unlock or find stuff. If I want to have an evolution type experience in a sim, I play career mode. But I don't want to be forced to start in Karts if I don't like them. Let me start my career wherever I want.

In fact, take RTS titles for example. Most allow you to start your journey anywhere in the chain, because they know not everyone wants, or has the time, to start off primitive and play through the future. The same way PCars let's you pick where you want to start your career and decide when you want to advance to the next level. Being forced to grind, and locking content behind achievements in a sim is just an archaic was of development. And a way to cover up/mask a lack of depth in the content that is actually offered.

hkraft300
21-12-2016, 20:02
Anyway, it'd be nice to see Gran Turismo turn out to be a half-decent game for once, because they do have the resources and the migration of racing simulations like pCARS and AC to the consoles has considerably raised the bar for the genre in these platforms.

I'm all for this. If PD and T10 decide to make proper SIM off shoots of GT and FM it'd be great for the SIM genre to expand on console while still catering to their existing fan base.
Forza Motorsport, please :)
I'd like them to give it a good go.

Haiden
21-12-2016, 22:01
I'm all for this. If PD and T10 decide to make proper SIM off shoots of GT and FM it'd be great for the SIM genre to expand on console while still catering to their existing fan base.
Forza Motorsport, please :)
I'd like them to give it a good go.

Yeah... and it'd also be nice for MS and Sony to actually make use of that hardware they talk so much about. :) If SMS was able to push the systems as far as they did with PCars, then there absolutely no reason for T10 and PD (both of whom have far more access and help from MS and Sony than SMS did) to produce lack luster sims. Forza6, regardless of whether you like it or not, didn't push things as far as gamers expected. If these studios can't do better, then they need to get out of the way.

DreamsKnight
21-12-2016, 23:39
So, you're saying the braking in AC is the same on console as it is on PC? And the FFB in PCars is just as detailed/dynamic on console as it is on PC?

These are just two aspects. But I think they illustrate that the cores are not the same. If they are, then they are being rendered differently between platforms.




IDK.... I'm pretty sure the grind model was in place in video games before RPGs made the leap to the digital space.

I'm saying AC and pcars are true Sims also in console. I can't speak about features like you, i don't have them for ps4. :)

For ffb in pcars, i think the problem is in ps4 you don't have TM control panel (if i'm not wrong) which is a good tool to manage ffb , and drivers are different.

Edit: tm for me, fanatec fir you etc obviously ;)

Haiden
21-12-2016, 23:57
I'm saying AC and pcars are true Sims also in console. I can't speak about features like you, i don't have them for ps4. :)

For ffb in pcars, i think the problem is in ps4 you don't have TM control panel (if i'm not wrong) which is a good tool to manage ffb , and drivers are different.

I think they're the only sims on console. PCars on console is the same feature-wise. The feel is better on PC, though. I understand the lack of a driver control panel on console, however, I don't think that's the issue, because I was using a Fanatec wheel with @wheel gain controls just like the control panel. I always ran the @wheel gain at 100, and continued to do so on PC (wheel and control panel). I ported my global and in-car settings as-is from console to PC, and they felt totally different.

AC's console version is short features. I never played AC on console, so I'm not sure about the feel. I've only heard it's not the same.

hkraft300
22-12-2016, 02:01
Yeah... and it'd also be nice for MS and Sony to actually make use of that hardware they talk so much about. :) If SMS was able to push the systems as far as they did with PCars, then there absolutely no reason for T10 and PD (both of whom have far more access and help from MS and Sony than SMS did) to produce lack luster sims. Forza6, regardless of whether you like it or not, didn't push things as far as gamers expected. If these studios can't do better, then they need to get out of the way.

They have their target market though don't they?
Sims may just be too complicated for the average gamer. There's times I'll bang on a different game and lie on the couch with the gamepad and zombie out. Pcars takes brain power and concentration!

cxMilk
22-12-2016, 04:29
uff, console players. :cower:
Not trying to drag this out any more than necessary, but want to point out that statements like this, even with a smiley tacked on, comes off as nothing more than negative and condescending.* I believe that's what Grijo was trying to get across.


The long spanning lack of sim competition in console space allowed Turn10 and Polyphony to market their titles as sims for a decade. And it's one of the reasons why Forza and GT fans are almost incapable of accepting/admitting their favorite racing titles actually fall more on the sim-cade side of the spectrum. It's not easy realizing you've been lied to for years. :rolleyes: And I put myself in that category. I was a die-hard Forza fan since the first release, then PCars opened my eyes, and then sims on PC opened them even wider.
This! This is the issue with us...uff, console players. We've been misled for years as to what a sim should be. They've marketed they're games as simulators and still do. I recall GT2 or GT3 having an arcade disc and a simulation disc. Who were we to think the simulation disc was equatable to just more arcade or "sim-cade" racing by PC sim standards?

As a console gamer, I'm well aware PC gamers have far superior options when it comes to sims. If I had the funds to put together a proper rig, I'd love to give pCars or even Automobilista on PC a go. Meanwhile, I'm more than satisfied with what pCars has given me on a console. Does it make me a lesser sim enthusiast or dense when it comes to understanding what a sim is because I'm still puttin' around on a console? I'd like to think not, but statements like, "uff, console players," tend to have that effect. Thing is, I'm playing the best damn sim to exist on console, which also happens to be the best or one of the best on PC as well if we're to believe what all the PC users have to say. Let us all just be pCars enthusiasts and be happy, except for the OP who'd rather be a GT Sport enthusiast.


*To DreamsKnight's credit, I understand where he's coming from in terms of how the OP is expressed. As hkraft300 said, language barrier is an issue here as it's been an issue in the past as well. Just unfortunate that that's the case on what can be a sensitive subject to some. Personally, I don't care or can easily shrug it off, but there's been enough PC/console banter to prove it can ignite a fire quite easily.

Konan
22-12-2016, 06:18
...wise words my friend...

FS7
22-12-2016, 10:37
Sims may just be too complicated for the average gamer. There's times I'll bang on a different game and lie on the couch with the gamepad and zombie out.
Although wheel is better sims are playable on a gamepad if you're precise with your inputs, I play all of my PC sims using a Xbox360 controller (I often refer to myself as an average guy with a controller).
Turn10 & PD could very well make a proper sim without scaring the casuals away, it's just a matter of being open-minded and including lots of options to make the game fun and accessible to as many people as possible. Include multiple controller presets & explanations of all the controller options, driving aids, good AI & good range of difficulty options, tutorials, and design a single player career & online modes that encourages proper clean racing (full race weekends, credit bonuses for clean passes/laps/races, credit bonuses for enabling damage & deduct credits to pay for damage, penalties & credit fines for collisions and/or going offtrack, etc).

Grijo
22-12-2016, 10:58
Not trying to drag this out any more than necessary, but want to point out that statements like this, even with a smiley tacked on, comes off as nothing more than negative and condescending.* I believe that's what Grijo was trying to get across.


This! This is the issue with us...uff, console players. We've been misled for years as to what a sim should be. They've marketed they're games as simulators and still do. I recall GT2 or GT3 having an arcade disc and a simulation disc. Who were we to think the simulation disc was equatable to just more arcade or "sim-cade" racing by PC sim standards?

As a console gamer, I'm well aware PC gamers have far superior options when it comes to sims. If I had the funds to put together a proper rig, I'd love to give pCars or even Automobilista on PC a go. Meanwhile, I'm more than satisfied with what pCars has given me on a console. Does it make me a lesser sim enthusiast or dense when it comes to understanding what a sim is because I'm still puttin' around on a console? I'd like to think not, but statements like, "uff, console players," tend to have that effect. Thing is, I'm playing the best damn sim to exist on console, which also happens to be the best or one of the best on PC as well if we're to believe what all the PC users have to say. Let us all just be pCars enthusiasts and be happy, except for the OP who'd rather be a GT Sport enthusiast.


*To DreamsKnight's credit, I understand where he's coming from in terms of how the OP is expressed. As hkraft300 said, language barrier is an issue here as it's been an issue in the past as well. Just unfortunate that that's the case on what can be a sensitive subject to some. Personally, I don't care or can easily shrug it off, but there's been enough PC/console banter to prove it can ignite a fire quite easily.

236544

Rodders
22-12-2016, 11:44
pcars is comparable with other sims, like: assetto corsa, raceroom, automobilista, rfactor.



Coming from Grid Autosport using a controller to Project Cars and my first wheel, I thought I'd moved from the arcade racer side and was finally playing a real full racing simulation. Then I played Automobilista.

I've not played the other games you mentioned either at all or enough to comment but Project Cars is no where near as much a proper sim as AMS. It's as far removed from it as Grid AS is to Project Cars.

I class Project Cars as an almost sim. Don't get me wrong it's really good fun but it's not in the same league as AMS in being a simulation of real racing.

Haiden
22-12-2016, 11:59
Coming from Grid Autosport using a controller to Project Cars and my first wheel, I thought I'd moved from the arcade racer side and was finally playing a real full racing simulation. Then I played Automobilista.

I've not played the other games you mentioned either at all or enough to comment but Project Cars is no where near as much a proper sim as AMS. It's as far removed from it as Grid AS is to Project Cars.

I class Project Cars as an almost sim. Don't get me wrong it's really good fun but it's not in the same league as AMS in being a simulation of real racing.

And AMS doesn't have the best graphics, either. but the physics, FFB, AI, and overall racing experience are more than enough to carry it to the top 3 of any list (although, it's currently #1 on mine). The first time I tried AMS, I laughed, because the setup curve was a little more than I was willing to invest in, and I had other sims to play. About a month ago, I found out, I was so wrong. With just a little tweaking, the game came alive. And the FFB feels like absolute butter. I own PCars, AC, rF2, R3E, and F1 2016. I haven't played anything but AMS since I bought it...LOL Every single class of car, from historics to modern F1 are just amazing to drive! And it's all running on an updated/patched up, but still years old, graphics and physics engine. I cannot wait to see where the studio goes from here. If they take what they currently have and move to DX12 with a new graphics and physics engine, I'd probably be fighting back an orgasm every time I got behind the wheel. :)

Rodders
22-12-2016, 12:56
And AMS doesn't have the best graphics, either. but the physics, FFB, AI, and overall racing experience are more than enough to carry it to the top 3 of any list (although, it's currently #1 on mine). The first time I tried AMS, I laughed, because the setup curve was a little more than I was willing to invest in, and I had other sims to play. About a month ago, I found out, I was so wrong. With just a little tweaking, the game came alive. And the FFB feels like absolute butter. I own PCars, AC, rF2, R3E, and F1 2016. I haven't played anything but AMS since I bought it...LOL Every single class of car, from historics to modern F1 are just amazing to drive! And it's all running on an updated/patched up, but still years old, graphics and physics engine. I cannot wait to see where the studio goes from here. If they take what they currently have and move to DX12 with a new graphics and physics engine, I'd probably be fighting back an orgasm every time I got behind the wheel. :)

lol well said Haiden :)

Maybe catch you on track sometime soon. It's my clubs main racer now with our first full league half way through. Utterly intoxicating stuff.

Rodders
22-12-2016, 13:05
And I'll just add (since this is a Project Cars forum after all lol), that Project Cars is still a better jump in and hammer a few races for the hell of it type of game. AMS is exhausting lol.

Haiden
22-12-2016, 14:40
And I'll just add (since this is a Project Cars forum after all lol), that Project Cars is still a better jump in and hammer a few races for the hell of it type of game. AMS is exhausting lol.

With the AI aggression set to high, racing in AMS is an insane, and demands a high level of focus to be consistent and compete. The race of and quali times for the AI are very well balanced and close, just like RL. So when you get the difficulty set right, you will yourself seriously challenged. You're constantly being pressed from behind, while trying to stay with the cars ahead. But not too close, if you're running high DF class, because the turbulent dirty air will eat your front tires, and you'll find yourself struggling. You have to maintain a certain distance, plan your attack, and only close in when you're ready to overtake. The AI doesn't just run fast either, so, assuming you have the difficulty set right, you don't have to worry about them running into your rear. Instead, you have to keep an eye on your mirrors, because they will attack and press you, forcing you to stop focusing on the gap ahead and defend your position. That being said, that doesn't mean you won't get a love tap every now and then from the car behind. But it will be exactly that, the rubbing is racing kind of contact that only deepens the immersion. There's no crazy corner cutting either to maintain position. The AI yields when it knows it's beat and doesn't just run through grass to regain or maintain position. :)