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View Full Version : NEW PATCH PS4- Why there are still some issues with PC-PS4 not solved? - (ESL Racer)



Interneti
02-01-2017, 11:12
Dear PC-SMS-Team!

For me Project Cars is actually the best racing simulation I have ever played, but till the last PS4 patch, which was on the 24.3.2016 (Long time) ,I am a bit disappointed, that the last steps were not done, to solve some very annoying mistakes. Specially as ESL-Racer we have every week this issues which I want to highlight now:

1. Wrong sequence after finish line
Happens always when two drivers are very close together when crossing the finish line. Specially when they fight against each other to reach the next qualification phase.
Always long discussions and frustrated drivers.

2. Sector times
It´s still not possible to see the sector times in the result list. (qualifying, race). With many PC apps I can get the sector times of all racers. Why does it not work on your lists. There is even written S1,S2. I do not understand, why this was not completed.

3.Delta Time
In some races It´s not possibel to see the ongoing delta time. Only after passing the sector line. I have some host players, where I always have this issue when I join his races.

4. FFB - changed steering
You join a race and the steering is much less than before. One good sample is the first chicane in Monza and the lap times. Yesterday we had this issue again. Bad steering and lap times which where fare away from our normal lap times in Monza. Than we jumped to another host and the steering worked pefect and the lap times were much better.
We didn´t calibrate the steering between this host change so that we can 100% say that this issue comes from the game itself.

5. Penalties
When someone kicks you out of the track and you get a penalty for this, it´s a very bad situation for everybody.
Why can´t this be solved?

6. Ghost-cars
In the last time it sometimes happens that there are ghost cars on the track. I had this issue last sunday during ESL. I wanted to start after green light but something which was not visible stopped me. After I have seen the saved race, there was a ghost car, which was only standing in front of me and has stopped me.

I am sure that I am not the only one who has this issues during racing of this almost perfect simulation and I hope that there can be find a programmer, who can finish the last step.

Best regards
Interneti

PS: If you want, we can make videos from most of this issues, so that you can see them live.

BigAlex
02-01-2017, 12:58
I wouldn't expect any fixes. The crew is focused on Pcars 2....

gotdirt410sprintcar
02-01-2017, 15:03
They know about everything you said and are probably on it. But number 5 if this happens to you in a group you race with it's probably how your racing . Give space and this will never happen IMO I might had this happen before but never with a clean group of drivers.

Interneti
02-01-2017, 17:00
As you can see. Two answers with different information - yes, no, maybe!
Thats why I am asking the SMS-Team.
Hopefully they can give a clear answer to the community.
It would be great to have a clear NO or YES ( will be fixed within that time).

Many thanks.

Konan
02-01-2017, 17:41
They will just say what i'm telling you now:support is still ongoing be it at a slower pace and only for gamebreaking issues...like it has been stated before,concentration has shifted to Pcars2...:cool:

gotdirt410sprintcar
02-01-2017, 18:05
And the problems you are talking about they All ready know about so they will try harder this time for you lol ;) they will not put the bugs in pcars2 it has it's on bugs!! RELAX RACE AND WAIT!

Give information of New bugs so they can respond too it so it won't be in pcars2. Andy and Ian aren't stupid pcars2 hmm and way before ps4. I

Interneti
02-01-2017, 18:11
Thank you, Konan!

That means that none of my topics will be solved, because there is no gamebreaking issue there.
Clear statement.

hkraft300
03-01-2017, 04:54
3 I've noticed happens if you go a little bit off track. Even if you don't get a cut track penalty/invalid lap, it still throws off the live split time. It comes back on the next lap usually.

DreamsKnight
03-01-2017, 11:17
cause if they update they are obliged to destroy fanatec support for ps4 decided by sony. this is also the motivation why ps4 have one patch less than pc and xbox if i'm not wrong.

Konan
03-01-2017, 11:21
cause if they update they are obliged to destroy fanatec support for ps4 decided by sony. this is also the motivation why ps4 have one patch less than pc and xbox if i'm not wrong.

This has never been officially aknowledged though...just speculations after Sony's announcement...

Haiden
03-01-2017, 15:14
They know about everything you said and are probably on it. But number 5 if this happens to you in a group you race with it's probably how your racing . Give space and this will never happen IMO I might had this happen before but never with a clean group of drivers.

Not even. I've been pushed wide off track so many times I can't even remember. It's not my driving, because I clearly stick my line and leave space for the other car. When driving with a good group, it's never a problem. Had a race last week where I went 8 consecutive corners wheel-to-wheel with another car at Spa. But, eventually, you end up in a corner with an idiot that has zero spacial awareness and doesn't use crew chief or bother to check his mirrors. You give them space to take the inside, and they just track out wide on corner exit, like you weren't even there and push you off track. Then, there's also the type of arsehole that actually knows you're there, and pushes you wide on purpose. Don't know how to solve the issue, other than making it so that hard contact prior to track violations (without a certain, small time window) negate the penalty.

But it would be nice if something could be done in PCars2, because PCars MP is getting really bad on PC. There aren't that many servers sessions to choose from, so it's getting harder and harder to avoid the idiots, and, lately, I've just been choosing to play something else. It used to be that if you qualified in the upper grid, you could have a clean race, provided you got a good start and survived the first corner. But X-mas seems to have introduced a whole new crowd of idiots. They're so slow, you end up lapping them, and then they either don't realize they are being lapped and try to race you (mostly blocking you instead of defending) or they just try to crash you out.

I tried iRacing over the holiday break, and I can see the appeal of having a MP structure with a rating system. It would be nice if SMS could create a license structure for PCars2 that would maintain a driver's etiquette rating, and then allow hosts to select a minimum rating requirement for their sessions. For example, everyone starts off with an MP rating of 5 (the highest). Then, based on MP performance--track cutting, contact, quitting sessions mid-race, etc.), they get a score at the end of the race, which is averaged into their profile rating. Lap time would not be a factor in your rating, only etiquette based things.

It won't fragment the MP base, because the higher the hosts sets their rating, the less drivers they will get, so they'll always have to set rating low enough to attract a decent grid. But at least the crashers and idiots will be regulated to crap sessions, because if you follow etiquette, you'd be hard pressed to fall below a 2.

FS7
03-01-2017, 15:25
It would be nice if SMS could create a license structure for PCars2 that would maintain a driver's etiquette rating, and then allow hosts to select a minimum rating requirement for their sessions.
I made a post about online driver rating system 2 years ago in another forum but I think it could be applied to other games too:

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/online-driver-rating-system.316969/#post-10074528

Haiden
03-01-2017, 15:58
I made a post about online driver rating system 2 years ago in another forum but I think it could be applied to other games too:

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/online-driver-rating-system.316969/#post-10074528

Yeah... something like that would be nice. I wouldn't try to measure overtakes, though, because then you're excluding clean drivers just because they can't pass. Eventually, if the MP base is large enough, that might be able to be implemented. But I'd just like to see something that regulates the idiots and encourages/rewards clean racing. I don't think it needs to be complex, either. A simple one scale setting, 1-5, that hosts can use to set the bar for the race. The factors that go into that rating are multi, just decide how many points each factor is worth (very small increments, since the final score maxes at 5). You start with 5 for each race, and then incidents are deducted. The final score is then averaged into your current rating. That simple addition would make a world of difference. Instead of admins having to spend their time watching the grid, to see who's being an idiot and needs to be kicked, it would just sort itself out.

The only thing I would add is a minimum hours played to get your ratings, or a single player season that needs to be run. You can still play MP without a rating, but you'd be limited to servers that don't have a rating limit. The purpose of this would be to discourage people from deleting their profiles and starting again when they get a bad rating. Sure, it won't be 100% effective. The bigger the idiot, the more likely they are to keep grinding to circumvent it. But, if it requires a few hours to achieve, then it will be an obstacle that most won't want to have to repeat.

DreamsKnight
03-01-2017, 18:01
This has never been officially aknowledged though...just speculations after Sony's announcement...

yes. people likes more speculations.

hkraft300
03-01-2017, 22:28
I don't pass on the outside unless I trust the guy I'm passing or I'm super confident/ have the pace to zip by before they react. Or do the over/under, or they make a mistake.
Clean drivers make mistakes too. Worn tyres, damage, pressure etc.

Haiden
04-01-2017, 00:23
I don't pass on the outside unless I trust the guy I'm passing or I'm super confident/ have the pace to zip by before they react. Or do the over/under, or they make a mistake.
Clean drivers make mistakes too. Worn tyres, damage, pressure etc.

Yeah... I agree. I try not to. Sometimes, I don't have a choice, when it's either pass him or let the cars ahead of him get away. :(

hkraft300
04-01-2017, 11:51
Yeah... I agree. I try not to. Sometimes, I don't have a choice, when it's either pass him or let the cars ahead of him get away. :(

True. Can't wait forever. The overzealous blockers don't make it any easier.

Diamond_Eyes
04-01-2017, 12:07
said it many times before:

need 'option' in MP to race in ghost mode :ghost:

Cars can look solid but there is no contact so you'll sail through opponents as if they're not there or vice-versa. Removes all problems with idiots camping out in MP lobbies looking to spoil the racing and the "glued together" issue if/when you rub an opponents cars.

Removes the fun of the overtake I admit (like a race in time trial mode) but a workable compromise especially for public MP, selected by the host

FS7
04-01-2017, 12:21
need 'option' in MP to race in ghost mode :ghost:
Agreed. Option to turn collisions off is nice to have.

Roger Prynne
04-01-2017, 12:51
said it many times before:

need 'option' in MP to race in ghost mode :ghost:

Cars can look solid but there is no contact so you'll sail through opponents as if they're not there or vice-versa. Removes all problems with idiots camping out in MP lobbies looking to spoil the racing and the "glued together" issue if/when you rub an opponents cars.

Removes the fun of the overtake I admit (like a race in time trial mode) but a workable compromise especially for public MP, selected by the host

The trouble is that this will make races totally unrealistic..... and very strange.

Diamond_Eyes
04-01-2017, 14:20
Well, as it stands online MP can be pretty 'unrealistic' for the reasons pointed out......

Unless of course you get in with a group of pro's which is quite rare for me.

Haiden
04-01-2017, 14:41
If they just ghosted cars with obviously troubling speed variances, that would be great. When a car is sitting still on a straight, or moving extremely slowly, that's a sign something is wrong and that car should be ghosted. Same for cars that are approaching another car from behind at a ridiculous speed. Ghost the car in front, so he can make his corner without being rear ended. Let the idiot sail through him and into the wall. :)

But I think a rating system and being forced to go through some sort of simple proving ground before getting access to MP would be best. Racing sims aren't like shooters. When you suck at a shooter, you're more fodder for the enemy and less disruptive to the team you're on. It's also easier for admins in shooters to pause and kick a fool. You can't do that while in a race, without ruining your race.

FS7
04-01-2017, 14:53
The trouble is that this will make races totally unrealistic..... and very strange.
Not really, as long as collisions off is optional one can still choose to join lobbies with collisions on (and damage on, penalties on, etc) and the realism will still be there.
Collisions off is a good option for people who don't have time to commit to leagues and want to be able to jump in online whenever they have free time and have a few decent races, without being bullied around by bad players.

Roger Prynne
04-01-2017, 17:04
So when you are rubbing paint with each other in a tight corner for example.... there is the possibility of the two cars merging?

FS7
04-01-2017, 17:23
So when you are rubbing paint with each other in a tight corner for example.... there is the possibility of the two cars merging?
If you want to rub paint with other people you can restrict yourself to "collisions on" lobbies.
In a lobby with collisions off if somebody tries to take you out his car will ghost through yours. May not be the most realistic thing ever but it's better than having strangers crashing on my car on every corner. Again, this is mainly an option for people who can't commit to leagues and simply want to jump in online at random days/times and play a few races without being taken out by strangers.

DreamsKnight
04-01-2017, 17:32
Not really, as long as collisions off is optional one can still choose to join lobbies with collisions on (and damage on, penalties on, etc) and the realism will still be there.
Collisions off is a good option for people who don't have time to commit to leagues and want to be able to jump in online whenever they have free time and have a few decent races, without being bullied around by bad players.

honestly, the core of motorsport is the overtake. ghost mode is not a solution, is putting the dust under the carpet.

and don't forget the large majority of iusses in online is dependant of a bad collision system, with always on gluemode® and casualdamagesystem®

FS7
04-01-2017, 18:08
honestly, the core of motorsport is the overtake. ghost mode is not a solution, is putting the dust under the carpet.

and don't forget the large majority of iusses in online is dependant of a bad collision system, with always on gluemode® and casualdamagesystem®
Like I said before, collisions off is just an option, nobody is forced to use it. If I'm playing against people I know obviously I'll choose to have collisions on, but if I'm playing at random times against strangers having the option to turn collisions off can make the game less frustrating.
PCars already has option to turn damage off, penalties off, tyre wear off, aids on... I don't see why having one more option would be so bad. More options is a good thing.

Haiden
04-01-2017, 18:43
Like I said before, collisions off is just an option, nobody is forced to use it. If I'm playing against people I know obviously I'll choose to have collisions on, but if I'm playing at random times against strangers having the option to turn collisions off can make the game less frustrating.
PCars already has option to turn damage off, penalties off, tyre wear off, aids on... I don't see why having one more option would be so bad. More options is a good thing.

Agreed. Overtaking is the core of motorsport, but public servers aren't even close to representing motorsport. Half the idiots on the grid don't even know there is such a thing as race etiquette. You wouldn't turn ghosting on in a private session or league race, but it would nice to have the option for public sessions.

eracerhead
04-01-2017, 21:33
So when you are rubbing paint with each other in a tight corner for example.... there is the possibility of the two cars merging?

Have had that happen in the pits; your view forward can get blocked completely by the interior of AI's car (fenders, headrest, etc.). In the middle of a corner? No thanks...

Haiden
04-01-2017, 21:41
honestly, the core of motorsport is the overtake. ghost mode is not a solution, is putting the dust under the carpet.

and don't forget the large majority of iusses in online is dependant of a bad collision system, with always on gluemode® and casualdamagesystem®

^^This. This turns a what should be no more than slight, barely felt bump into a disaster, especially at the start before the grid can spread out. Don't know how this got into the physics model or why/how it made it through to release.

hkraft300
04-01-2017, 22:34
If you're doing public MP, set 15-20+ lap race. Wreckers and bad drivers are gone by lap 5.

Konan
04-01-2017, 22:45
If you're doing public MP, set 15-20+ lap race. Wreckers and bad drivers are gone by lap 5.

...and if you qualified between them so are you...:cool:

hkraft300
04-01-2017, 22:56
...and if you qualified between them so are you...:cool:

Host kick function ;) few minutes in monitor mode gets that kick button active.

FS7
04-01-2017, 23:10
If you're doing public MP, set 15-20+ lap race. Wreckers and bad drivers are gone by lap 5.
Or you can enable full damage & penalties and ban driving aids, that keeps most of the bad drivers out.
Occasionally there's that 1 bad driver who joined the lobby and didn't pay attention to the driving aids restriction, race starts, he doesn't move because he doesn't know how to drive manual, he gets really angry, calls the host bad names then leaves, and all the good drivers who are still racing have a good laugh.

Haiden
05-01-2017, 00:32
If you're doing public MP, set 15-20+ lap race. Wreckers and bad drivers are gone by lap 5.

Yeah... after they've taken out half the grid...LOL. I was in a race last week. Qualified 2nd, about .200 behind another driver. Everyone else was a second behind. I thought it would be a good race, because me and P1 had been running laps together during quali. Race started, and he got taken out by an idiot before the first turn. I pulled away from the chaos, and then spent the whole race alone. Would have been an awesome race. Should have been. :)


Host kick function ;) few minutes in monitor mode gets that kick button active.

A lot of crashers don't show their colors until the race starts. They get pissed when they ruin their own race, then stick around to spread the misery. A host shouldn't have to pull over and abandon their race/position to kick an idiot. If they don't catch them in quali, they usually don't kick them until the race is over. But by then, you've already lost a lot of drivers to the fool, and the session dies after the checkered flag. :(

Idiots ruin MP. There's no way around it. And it's been worse these past few weeks with all the new players coming to the game.

hkraft300
05-01-2017, 00:49
There has been an influx on PS4 lately! I wonder why. I've met a few new lads myself. Some of them are trying to get a handle on racing.
I'm optimistic.

DreamsKnight
05-01-2017, 02:16
First point for pc users, join rsr. They are a great group, great organisation, 3-4 races each week, forum users, and great racers.

Guys, it's almost a year we read each other so exactly like I recognize you I think you recognize me. So I think I don't have to explain how much I love pcars.

Here I meet an Italian guy, he introduced me in his league, and day after day a great friendship is born with him and other guys. For sure, no language barriers helped :D

So I joined a championship of 7 race. My memory, without a check, say
-Strnage glued contact each race, the start is always messed up
- a guy destroyed the car in a wall which was the lag of another one who started also 3 second before
- a light contact in first gear launched the hitted car in the sky and race finished upside down
- I suddendly lost the rear tyre during an overtake for a light contact in the straight
-Race start destroyed by a disconnection iusse of a guy and is car launched in the first turn without control
-a qualify and a race destroyed for half grid with wheel at 1080° in a formula car.

I spent 16000km (tre zero, no error) in this championship. And each race had stupid problems.
The online code in pcars is bad. The contact physics is bad. This is the 70℅ of the problem.

After this, a good license system, ban mode player ranking could solve the 30℅.

Inside the league I joined two assetto corsa races. With a worse graphics, the worst force feedback of the planet, a doubtful physics, I enjoyed the two greatest races I ever made. Solid online, side by side fight without gluemode, personal livery, perfect replay, YouTube streaming and comment, modded tracks for drs use and box places...

I feel more excited by two fun races without training, than a full championship leaded until two races left (the tyre lost....)

So again, this is why I think the ghost mode is not the solution in a SIM. We want immersion and a proper simulation of a race, the game must provide us this. I want to be satisfied for the fight, side by side or about tenths. Not for a contemporary leaderboard challenge.

;)

Konan
05-01-2017, 04:40
There has been an influx on PS4 lately! I wonder why.

...presumably a lot of Pcars copy's went over the counter as Christmas presents....:cool:

FS7
05-01-2017, 10:19
this is why I think the ghost mode is not the solution in a SIM.
I think you're misunderstanding the point, nobody here is suggesting collisions off as a solution to online, collisions off is just an option mainly aimed at people who can't commit to playing at specific days/times.
Obviously improving online code & collision physics should be priority but having collisions off as an option (in addition to all other aids/options that are already available) would be nice imo.

Diamond_Eyes
05-01-2017, 11:32
So again, this is why I think the ghost mode is not the solution in a SIM. We want immersion and a proper simulation of a race, the game must provide us this. I want to be satisfied for the fight, side by side or about tenths. Not for a contemporary leaderboard challenge.

;)

Agree with you on the immersion and that is the goal. How you do write a code for MP collisions, rubs and nudges plus take account of any lag and such must be the ultimate coding challenge? Yes, ghost mode is a poor solution but takes away these problems.

DreamsKnight
05-01-2017, 13:22
I think you're misunderstanding the point, nobody here is suggesting collisions off as a solution to online, collisions off is just an option mainly aimed at people who can't commit to playing at specific days/times.
Obviously improving online code & collision physics should be priority but having collisions off as an option (in addition to all other aids/options that are already available) would be nice imo.

No no, simply I don't like "lazy" solutions. I think the day you'll have a great online code you'll never search a ghost mode. This is my point.

Haiden
05-01-2017, 15:07
No no, simply I don't like "lazy" solutions. I think the day you'll have a great online code you'll never search a ghost mode. This is my point.

No one likes lazy solutions. But this isn't lazy. The ability of programming/code is limited to the platform it runs on and development constraints, like time and money. Sims already demand a lot from the systems they run on. It simply might not be possible to create a system like that right now for a variety of reasons. So, in the mean time, the options are, let public MP continue to suffer from idiots, or add small fixes (completely optional in their application) to help ease the pain. I'd love the perfect solution, as well. But, until it can be developed and implemented, I'd gladly take ghost option to make public MP a little more fun. If you want full damage, then fine. You can still run a full damage server, or limit yourself to league play. I don't see how a ghosting option affects people that don't want to use it. Just don't use it. :) I also haven't heard any other viable options for dealing with scourge of crashers in MP. If you've played in public sessions more than a few days, you quickly realize Avoid Them isn't really a realistic option.

DreamsKnight
05-01-2017, 17:11
No one likes lazy solutions. But this isn't lazy. The ability of programming/code is limited to the platform it runs on and development constraints, like time and money. Sims already demand a lot from the systems they run on. It simply might not be possible to create a system like that right now for a variety of reasons. So, in the mean time, the options are, let public MP continue to suffer from idiots, or add small fixes (completely optional in their application) to help ease the pain. I'd love the perfect solution, as well. But, until it can be developed and implemented, I'd gladly take ghost option to make public MP a little more fun. If you want full damage, then fine. You can still run a full damage server, or limit yourself to league play. I don't see how a ghosting option affects people that don't want to use it. Just don't use it. :) I also haven't heard any other viable options for dealing with scourge of crashers in MP. If you've played in public sessions more than a few days, you quickly realize Avoid Them isn't really a realistic option.

-i've played public sessions and quickly my option was "avoid them". :D
-play in a legue is another "lazy" solution given here, (also by myself). it can prevent from idiots (not ever..) but not from the netcode.
-there are other sims on the market, with a far better netcode. and crashing system (i repeat it, it is 40-50% of the problem imho)
-the limited platform is false. i experienced all the problems above with a pc. the op has a ps4. and there are other sims on the market without these problems (but others :S )
-player rankings, license system, ban mode temporary or definitive. it's plenty of games with user actions controlled by the software house. and i call marketing the option to give to users the best online mode

i hope it's clear i'm propositive. :D it is a few days I'm thinking and I realize that I actually prefer large organized events. so i prefer to compromise on other aspects rather than on netcode.

at the end, i read pcars2 and esl integration, so i have great expectations for the future.

Haiden
05-01-2017, 17:52
-i've played public sessions and quickly my option was "avoid them". :D
-play in a legue is another "lazy" solution given here, (also by myself). it can prevent from idiots (not ever..) but not from the netcode.
-there are other sims on the market, with a far better netcode. and crashing system (i repeat it, it is 40-50% of the problem imho)
-the limited platform is false. i experienced all the problems above with a pc. the op has a ps4. and there are other sims on the market without these problems (but others :S )
-player rankings, license system, ban mode temporary or definitive. it's plenty of games with user actions controlled by the software house. and i call marketing the option to give to users the best online mode

i hope it's clear i'm propositive. :D it is a few days I'm thinking and I realize that I actually prefer large organized events. so i prefer to compromise on other aspects rather than on netcode.

at the end, i read pcars2 and esl integration, so i have great expectations for the future.

I was referring to the technical limitations, meaning... there's a limit to how resource intensive a sim can be, if you want to attract a wide audience. Regardless of the platform (console or PC), developers have to balance complexity with system requirements. Sure you can program whatever you want, but the more complex it gets, the less people you'll find with a PC capable of running the game. The limitations are even greater on console, where devs are working to manufacture specs.

Anyway... the other solutions you mentioned have already been discussed in the thread and everyone agrees that they would be better solutions. Seeing the complexity involved in implementing some of those solutions, ghosting was recommended as one option. Sure, iRacing has a great ranking and licensing system. They also have a pay-to-play model and sponsorships that most other sim developers don't have. This provides them with the steady flow of capital they need to develop and implement these things. Which brings me back to my original point, developers have no choice but to work within their limits and the limits of the platforms they working with. :)