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View Full Version : pCARS 2 - lots new features - but have they polished what was there?



Javaniceday
14-02-2017, 04:12
I've waited a long, long time to make this post. I wonder if it'll get any attention. So the league I race at, PRL, dropped pCARS due to the fear of bugs - some legitimate, a lot not, but nonetheless the game got this somewhat unfair reputation and people just didn't want to deal with it anymore. People were afraid of turning on Time and Weather progression for fear of crashing the game, for instance. I always pushed to keep the game, but I wasn't able to keep a positive attitude around the game and everyone migrated to AC or iRacing.

The reason I appreciate the game, and put up with things not quite working 100% correct, is because of how ambitious it was. Weather, single player career, tons of cars on track, etc, etc. And compared to other games, it was a complete experience. AC, for instance, doesn't even have in-menu music - it feels like a beta game.

Regardless, probably due to the vastness of the game, some features just didn't work they way they should have. A few examples -
- Inters were useless 'cuz when it started raining, no matter intensity, the track would be 100% wet within a lap.
- FB wet tires worked quite well and would last quite a while in a dry track. And the Medium tires were FASTER than the softs.
- Clip cup rain tires worked better when cold, and even better when they were worn down to nothing.
- Navigating menu options was super twitchy - you're hitting down on the dpad, but a tiny glance on left or right would be detected as a full press - so when you're in the pits, it was super easy to accidentally put on wets without noticing when you just wanted to navigate down. So people would pit, and come out with Wet tires, and they would scream out "BUGGGG!!"
- Single player weather was scripted
- In single player you couldn't get a new contract offer from a better team in the same championship - and a really strong opponent in one race might be awful in the next race - so you could win championships rather easily just be doing ookay. winning wasn't necessary.

Then there's stuff that other racing sims have done well that pCARS could just do the same way because it works, but it doesn't. Like a pit menu while out on track the way codemasters does it. Or having refueling and changing tires happen at the same time like AC does it. Or the most facepalm thing, the player names while out on track - the text was super tiny b4 so it was useless, so months later they fix it.... by increasing the font size, but it scales up as the cars get closer to you so they look HUGE - again useless. Look at how F12016 does it! Just do it that way, it works! Same font size that fades in and out with distance! jeesh.

So none of these were legitimate bugs, they were design choices, or overlooked design choices, that nonetheless felt like bugs to a lot of people. Then there were the legitimate bugs, being upside down on the grid b4 the race, going to the pits and never being allowed to go out again, the car exploding hitting invisible walls.

So I hope that since there will be so many new features in pCARS2, I sure hope more importantly than the new features, they made sure that existing features worked better.

We'll see....

Ian Bell
14-02-2017, 04:31
Who are 'they'? You know you're on our forum right?

Call us 'you' :)

Javaniceday
14-02-2017, 04:33
Who are 'they'? You know you're on our forum right?

Call us 'you' :)

Hi Ian! Big Fan. I'm so rooting for you guys. Can't wait for the game :D I just wanted to addresses these issues I've been worried about 'cuz I wanna be able to play it with the league. Thanks for reading!

Ian Bell
14-02-2017, 05:29
Hi Ian! Big Fan. I'm so rooting for you guys. Can't wait for the game :D I just wanted to addresses these issues I've been worried about 'cuz I wanna be able to play it with the league. Thanks for reading!

Short answer for you is that we've went hell for leather to make pCARS2 a great option for leagues and esports. Probably 95% of the customer requested features have been and are being worked on.

In terms of bugs specifically, pCARS1 was a very special case of development with 80,000 people inputting, little funds available for QA and a crazy ongoing monthly feature and asset update.

It's all different this time.

BulletEyeDK
14-02-2017, 06:38
@Ian Bell
I read somewhere that pCARS2 for PC will have some kind of race result export for use for ex. league admins... Since im on console this caught my attention, as this feature would be awesome, maybe export options for console user could be via UDP ? we saw with pCARS1 that there is a lot of really great app developers out there....

Could you shed any light on the possibilities for a feature of this kind ? could be really cool with a pCARS2 api for extracting this type of information, maybe SMS could store all the needed information for a shorter period of time (24 hours or a couple of days) - just so the league admin could have enough time to extract the information for use...

What's the status for dedicated servers making it into the game for console users ? - i've mentioned it way back that SMS could look in the direction DICE went with Battlefield4 and now BF1 for renting servers... :)

Ian Bell
14-02-2017, 06:45
@Ian Bell
I read somewhere that pCARS2 for PC will have some kind of race result export for use for ex. league admins... Since im on console this caught my attention, as this feature would be awesome, maybe export options for console user could be via UDP ? we saw with pCARS1 that there is a lot of really great app developers out there....

Could you shed any light on the possibilities for a feature of this kind ? could be really cool with a pCARS2 api for extracting this type of information, maybe SMS could store all the needed information for a shorter period of time (24 hours or a couple of days) - just so the league admin could have enough time to extract the information for use...

What's the status for dedicated servers making it into the game for console users ? - i've mentioned it way back that SMS could look in the direction DICE went with Battlefield4 and now BF1 for renting servers... :)

It will. http://www.projectcarsgame.com/onlinechampionships.html

I can't give any specifics on anything beyond that and this: http://www.projectcarsgame.com/esports.html

BulletEyeDK
14-02-2017, 07:13
@Ian Bell - thanks for taking time to answer.... and WOW this is looking simply amazing for us league admins, thanks for the link :)

seb02
14-02-2017, 10:15
hello Ian, I hope you are fine. Thank you again for taking the time to talk about Project Cars 2. It is a rare practice coming from a studio manager and it is very appreciated.

236976

I noticed the box below "ShoutCast feed". The fact of writing "Incident on Turn 10" is indeed a coincidence, nothing to do with another studio for example? I liked this trait of humor.
Can you tell us a bit more about the solo mode: custom championship, career with ability to change date, time, weather ...?, Quick race ...? Will the option mandatory Pitstop be available on solo mode ?

Thanks

Dakpilot
14-02-2017, 11:14
Talking of "polishing what was already there"

Has the issue of changing contrast in cockpit with different FOV and variations with different cars had some attention

I am greatly impressed with what was achieved with Pcars 1 but this was a constant irritation more than it would seem when hopping from one car to another to find either the road and sky 'blown out' to white or visibility very reduced compared to looking out the rear view

It could all be sort of corrected with ingame settings but was time consuming and annoying, with a low "realistic" FOV in an Aston GT3 compared to a BMWZ4 GT3 a lot of lighting change had to be done to make it playable and then changing to open cockpit would require re setting again

I think at default 80 field of view these issues were not so noticeable

hope to see some advances in this area, very much looking forwards to Pcars 2 and happy to see your input here again on the forums

Cheers Dakpilot

F1_Racer68
15-02-2017, 00:24
I've waited a long, long time to make this post. I wonder if it'll get any attention. So the league I race at, PRL, dropped pCARS due to the fear of bugs - some legitimate, a lot not, but nonetheless the game got this somewhat unfair reputation and people just didn't want to deal with it anymore. People were afraid of turning on Time and Weather progression for fear of crashing the game, for instance. I always pushed to keep the game, but I wasn't able to keep a positive attitude around the game and everyone migrated to AC or iRacing.

The reason I appreciate the game, and put up with things not quite working 100% correct, is because of how ambitious it was. Weather, single player career, tons of cars on track, etc, etc. And compared to other games, it was a complete experience. AC, for instance, doesn't even have in-menu music - it feels like a beta game.

Regardless, probably due to the vastness of the game, some features just didn't work they way they should have. A few examples -
- Inters were useless 'cuz when it started raining, no matter intensity, the track would be 100% wet within a lap.
- FB wet tires worked quite well and would last quite a while in a dry track. And the Medium tires were FASTER than the softs.
- Clip cup rain tires worked better when cold, and even better when they were worn down to nothing.
- Navigating menu options was super twitchy - you're hitting down on the dpad, but a tiny glance on left or right would be detected as a full press - so when you're in the pits, it was super easy to accidentally put on wets without noticing when you just wanted to navigate down. So people would pit, and come out with Wet tires, and they would scream out "BUGGGG!!"
- Single player weather was scripted
- In single player you couldn't get a new contract offer from a better team in the same championship - and a really strong opponent in one race might be awful in the next race - so you could win championships rather easily just be doing ookay. winning wasn't necessary.

Then there's stuff that other racing sims have done well that pCARS could just do the same way because it works, but it doesn't. Like a pit menu while out on track the way codemasters does it. Or having refueling and changing tires happen at the same time like AC does it. Or the most facepalm thing, the player names while out on track - the text was super tiny b4 so it was useless, so months later they fix it.... by increasing the font size, but it scales up as the cars get closer to you so they look HUGE - again useless. Look at how F12016 does it! Just do it that way, it works! Same font size that fades in and out with distance! jeesh.

So none of these were legitimate bugs, they were design choices, or overlooked design choices, that nonetheless felt like bugs to a lot of people. Then there were the legitimate bugs, being upside down on the grid b4 the race, going to the pits and never being allowed to go out again, the car exploding hitting invisible walls.

So I hope that since there will be so many new features in pCARS2, I sure hope more importantly than the new features, they made sure that existing features worked better.

We'll see.... Just want to point this one out..... The game's core seemed to be focused around Sportscar racing. In Sportscar racing, most series do not allow refuelling and tire changing at the same time. It's part fo the rule set.

With that said, I know pCARS 1 had multiple disciplines, but I doubt that it would have been possible to change the core mechanics of the game to reflect pit stop rules for each series (someone from SMS please feel free to correct me here).

Even the "almighty iRacing" has some ridiculous NASCAR induced limitations on non-NASCAR cars, such as not being able to adjust certain tuning aspects of GT3s because they cannot be adjusted on NASCAR cars because the core platform originated with NASCAR Racing from Papyrus.

Schadows
15-02-2017, 12:21
236976

I noticed the box below "ShoutCast feed". The fact of writing "Incident on Turn 10" is indeed a coincidence, nothing to do with another studio for example? I liked this trait of humor.Ah ah ah, I didn't notice at first, but indeed, this is quite hilarious n__n

Ian Bell
16-02-2017, 00:31
hello Ian, I hope you are fine. Thank you again for taking the time to talk about Project Cars 2. It is a rare practice coming from a studio manager and it is very appreciated.

236976

I noticed the box below "ShoutCast feed". The fact of writing "Incident on Turn 10" is indeed a coincidence, nothing to do with another studio for example? I liked this trait of humor.
Can you tell us a bit more about the solo mode: custom championship, career with ability to change date, time, weather ...?, Quick race ...? Will the option mandatory Pitstop be available on solo mode ?

Thanks

Good spot :) I'm sure it's accidental.

Ekay.jay
16-02-2017, 00:42
Accidentally on purpose?;)

Ian Bell
16-02-2017, 01:03
Huge crash in Sector 3?

Sorry.

Dakpilot
16-02-2017, 01:06
Any info on the points from post #9

Cheers Dakpilot

Ian Bell
16-02-2017, 01:14
Any info on the points from post #9

Cheers Dakpilot

Yes, we've completely rewritten the rendering system. It now has more dynamic range and I fully assume we'll be able to get the interior to exterior lighting balance better this time.

I have to say though that it's not a simple task when you have infinitely varied lighting on every track. Add in snow now and it gets even more complicated. It's very easy to nail this perfectly with fixed lighting.

BullWinkle
16-02-2017, 01:33
Yes, we've completely rewritten the rendering system. It now has more dynamic range and I fully assume we'll be able to get the interior to exterior lighting balance better this time.

I have to say though that it's not a simple task when you have infinitely varied lighting on every track. Add in snow now and it gets even more complicated. It's very easy to nail this perfectly with fixed lighting.

I have the utmost confidence you won't disappoint.:)

Schadows
16-02-2017, 09:02
What's with the insane posting time for your replies?! You better get some sleep before you finish in the barrier >__<

Mascot
16-02-2017, 09:32
What's with the insane posting time for your replies?! You better get some sleep before you finish in the barrier >__<

Ian doesn't live in the UK timezone.
Southeast Asia, I think..?

Ryzza5
16-02-2017, 10:08
Singapore, so I've heard.

BigDad
16-02-2017, 10:18
So hows the performance this time round ?
With pCars (1) i can run with pretty high settings @ 4k (all high but with AA at DS2X) . Will i still be able to play with these type of settings and maintain 60fps in the dry ?
GPU : GTX 1070
CPU : I5 6600k .

Konan
16-02-2017, 11:27
Singapore, so I've heard.


Didn't he say he needed to spend a couple of weeks in Hawai? (Something about nailing a scan... :p )

Schadows
16-02-2017, 12:33
So hows the performance this time round ?
With pCars (1) i can run with pretty high settings @ 4k (all high but with AA at DS2X) . Will i still be able to play with these type of settings and maintain 60fps in the dry ?
GPU : GTX 1070
CPU : I5 6600k .

From what Ian already said over GTP, the performances should be around the same than pcars1. The engine is more efficient and they used the spare power to add new things so in the end, performances should be the same as before, except AMD card works apparently great this time.

On my side, since I only play pcars in VR since I got the Vive, I think the game would really benefit from not displaying assets known to bring a lot of shimmering (because of the low resolution per eye and the screen door effect), like the fences for example. I already asked if it was possible for pcars1 when the official support for Vive came in, but since these assets where not flagged specifically, it couldn't be done.

BigDad
16-02-2017, 12:51
From what Ian already said over GTP, the performances should be around the same than pcars1. The engine is more efficient and they used the spare power to add new things so in the end, performances should be the same as before, except AMD card works apparently great this time.

On my side, since I only play pcars in VR since I got the Vive, I think the game would really benefit from not displaying assets known to bring a lot of shimmering (because of the low resolution per eye and the screen door effect), like the fences for example. I already asked if it was possible for pcars1 when the official support for Vive came in, but since these assets where not flagged specifically, it couldn't be done.

Good to know , Thanks .
The shimmering also kills it even at 4k with my settings so i too would like to have all those assets removed or improved .

Schadows
18-02-2017, 20:51
Just saw Ian answered my question on the GTP thread (https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/project-cars-2-general-discussion-thread.342814/page-50#post-11712686) (frankly I lost hope but it would have been understandable considering the amount of questions asked there).

In a nutshell, no fences won't be removed in VR, but they have worked on the shimmering issues.

I'm glad to know this time, kerbs and astroturf will be slippery in wet conditions (the amount of grip in these conditions were almost silly in pcars1), and i'm overly excited about what pcars2 might announced as a driving-school-ish feature.

So, when does the pre-order start? ^^

DinoM
28-02-2017, 11:29
Project CARS 2, DX12 will be coming in? Or will it be available?