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Javaniceday
22-02-2017, 23:44
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LMo1vgxA6OQ

He makes a lot of good points. Ian addressed similar questions so I think chances are good that these issues will be taken care of. Let's remain hopeful.

Mahjik
23-02-2017, 03:15
There a lot of things that person doesn't understand about tires...

Alan Dallas
23-02-2017, 06:43
Who and why should I care about his thoughts?

honespc
23-02-2017, 12:39
Because he does make a couple of good points, like the AI not struggling on wet races hence making racing under heavy rain conditions pointless; then the intermediate tyres issue too; hard and medium compunds = pointless against softs; and etc many other issues found in pc1.

That's why it's very important for everyone to have these things fixed in pc2, so the tracklive feature isn't rendered as useless because the tyre model isn't working as expected, specially some compounds

If tyre model has been fixed, and the different compounds are now worth the use, then the tracklive thing will be an absolute game changer, of course

Mahjik
23-02-2017, 13:11
Everyone should understand that for the time being (i.e. given current home-based processing power), the AI will always have a little different behavior in any condition than the player car. They are not running the exact same tire models due to processing power. The goal is to get them close but there will always be "some" differences.

Fun fact, during WMD1 when the SETA tire model was introduced, SMS was trying to find the right blend of performance and fidelity of the model. For a test, they increased the fidelity of the model for a build and it brought every PC out there down to a crawl. Having said that, the tire model is pretty complex and as CPU processing continues to grow, they can increase the fidelity of the model to unlock more potential. However, trying to run that level of fidelity for all of the AI cars is just not possible today.

honespc
23-02-2017, 14:08
Indeed, but making the AI slower on wet on purpose to just have behave more realistic (and more playable against) shouldn't take any cpu resources.

Everybody knows you can't simulate all cars but just the player without burning any cpu. Then, you can just make it slower on purpose when on wet races (to simulate their struggling against the rain just as player does too) and that's all.

And what about the compund issues (inters; etc) in pc1?. That's far from being cpu issues. This all must be fixed in pc2 so the tracklive feature is worth it. Otherwise it will be pointless

Mahjik
23-02-2017, 14:22
And what about the compund issues (inters; etc) in pc1?. That's far from being cpu issues. This all must be fixed in pc2 so the tracklive feature is worth it. Otherwise it will be pointless

Some of the "issues" he mentions, as I said, he doesn't understand tires. Yes, there were a handful of "issues" but I do understand why SMS went with a more cautious approach. Sure, everyone wants everything perfect and likely SMS attempted to do too much with pCARS1 which left some areas exposed. However, just because someone can post a video on Youtube doesn't make them an expert (nor right).

OddTimer
23-02-2017, 14:44
Indeed, but making the AI slower on wet on purpose to just have behave more realistic (and more playable against) shouldn't take any cpu resources.

Everybody knows you can't simulate all cars but just the player without burning any cpu. Then, you can just make it slower on purpose when on wet races (to simulate their struggling against the rain just as player does too) and that's all.

And what about the compund issues (inters; etc) in pc1?. That's far from being cpu issues. This all must be fixed in pc2 so the tracklive feature is worth it. Otherwise it will be pointless

You should have a look at Ian's Q&A at GT Planet there is some clarification on the work they've being doing on tires...when it comes to different compounds things are looking promising. Fingers crossed.

Javaniceday
23-02-2017, 17:06
Some of the "issues" he mentions, as I said, he doesn't understand tires. Yes, there were a handful of "issues" but I do understand why SMS went with a more cautious approach. Sure, everyone wants everything perfect and likely SMS attempted to do too much with pCARS1 which left some areas exposed. However, just because someone can post a video on Youtube doesn't make them an expert (nor right).

He's not an expert, but you can still give him credit for correctly pointing out problems that can be fixed, instead of dismissing him outright. Softs are not supposed to be so good that they make all other tires useless. FB Mediums are not supposed to be faster than softs. Wet tires in Clios aren't supposed to be faster when cold, and be at their best when completely worn down (my observation)

I think he's just concerned because we all want the game to succeed. These issues are just the core that all other features will depend on.

Ian has said that quality assurance is a much much bigger aspect of production for pCARS2 than pCARS1, so there's reason to be hopeful.

breyzipp
23-02-2017, 20:47
Everyone should understand that for the time being (i.e. given current home-based processing power), the AI will always have a little different behavior in any condition than the player car. They are not running the exact same tire models due to processing power. The goal is to get them close but there will always be "some" differences.

Fun fact, during WMD1 when the SETA tire model was introduced, SMS was trying to find the right blend of performance and fidelity of the model. For a test, they increased the fidelity of the model for a build and it brought every PC out there down to a crawl. Having said that, the tire model is pretty complex and as CPU processing continues to grow, they can increase the fidelity of the model to unlock more potential. However, trying to run that level of fidelity for all of the AI cars is just not possible today.

I understand that not every AI driver can behave with the same complexity as the car/tyre/handling model of the player. But as has been said before here, it would be nice to see the AI also suffer from rain races. Also, judging from PCARS1 AI drivers, they never seem to make a mistake or do anything out of the ordinary. Not that the following game is any sort of useful reference for PCARS but in FM6 at least AI drivers occasionally also make mistakes and end up off the track. In PCARS the AI drivers feel a bit sterile and lifeless, they constantly seem to be doing the same thing over and over again. Also, they seem very much glued to the ideal racing line as well, often simply pushing me off the track.

If for PCARS2 the AI suffers (in their own way) from bad weather / bad track condition, if they feel a bit more alive and "human" (including the occasional error but without making those errors feel scripted as in FM6) and if they give a bit more room to the player instead of pushing us off then I will be a happy singleplayer racer in PC2.

Schnizz58
23-02-2017, 21:28
I'm not trying to defend the AI as I agree with you for the most part. However I have seen the AI make mistakes. There are certain locations that seem to be more problematic for the AI than others. For example at Donnington, the last turn before the straight I see the AI run off into the gravel a lot. That said, they don't really lose much speed when they do run into the gravel.

Azure Flare
23-02-2017, 21:30
I don't trust any Youtube "personality" unless they actually are "in the know" of what exactly is going on with PCars 2.

hkraft300
23-02-2017, 21:52
FB tyres aren't exactly "medium" and "soft", they're of same performance but behave differently. Think of them like Bridgestone v Michelin in F1.
Worn wet tyres can really grip up on a dry-ish track. Again watching F1 often worn wets are faster than inter. I'm not sure how the compound works though.

Softs aren't entirely invincible. I've beaten guys who are 3+ seconds faster per lap, but destroyed tyres and had to box for mediums and lost the speed advantage :D

It's all possible.

However I should note: I did set the lobby tyre wear at 2X lol.
From a gaming perspective: FB tyres shouldn't have been labeled medium/soft. Confuses people.

TexasTyme214
23-02-2017, 22:57
With x2 wear and faster, things definitely change, but I'd love to see all three compounds work in real tire wear settings.

hkraft300
23-02-2017, 23:33
With x2 wear and faster, things definitely change, but I'd love to see all three compounds work in real tire wear settings.

Rumour has it flash heating is back like patch 6 + whatever tyre model improvements they've made.
So get yourself a wheel Tex or I'll be leaving you behind :p

Mahjik
24-02-2017, 14:48
He's not an expert, but you can still give him credit for correctly pointing out problems that can be fixed, instead of dismissing him outright. Softs are not supposed to be so good that they make all other tires useless. FB Mediums are not supposed to be faster than softs. Wet tires in Clios aren't supposed to be faster when cold, and be at their best when completely worn down (my observation)

I think he's just concerned because we all want the game to succeed. These issues are just the core that all other features will depend on.

Ian has said that quality assurance is a much much bigger aspect of production for pCARS2 than pCARS1, so there's reason to be hopeful.

As hkraft300 has mentioned, wet/rain tires are designed to work at lower temperatures since water cools tires. His comparison of cold rain tires to cold dry tires is uninformed. As I said, he doesn't understand racing tires. Now, the cool dry tire performance may be a bit on the extreme but there is a reason F1 teams are able to and do use tire warmers. In general, any tire that is design work in cooler temperatures will be an overall "softer" compound.

I do racing in NASA and the competition wet tires are rated the exact same as the competition dry tires (when both used in the dry). It's because the wet tire given it's soft compound can produce a similar if not a faster lap time. The main thing here is the overall ambient temperature as the softer compound will overheat quickly with normal to higher ambient temps.


But as has been said before here, it would be nice to see the AI also suffer from rain races.

They do in pCARS1. It's subjective to the driver if the AI is affected "enough" by the weather. There is no good balance. If SMS makes them slower than they are in the rain, then there will be some who are already fast in the rain saying the AI is too slow. Ideally, SMS is able to continue to make advancements in the AI tire so there doesn't need to be an artificial and objective "slow down" for non-sunny weather. This would make it more natural.

EHM
24-02-2017, 15:39
I see the videos bring up the grass and astroturf grip argument.

Myself I don't have real racing experience or enough understanding of the physics to say who is right or wrong, I'd be interested to hear from some guys here who do race in real life.

I've heard from some on the forums that grass isn't that slippery when it's dry, while others seem to think it's impossible to touch it without spinning out and dieing in a fiery wreck.

Mahjik
24-02-2017, 16:08
I see the videos bring up the grass and astroturf grip argument.

Myself I don't have real racing experience or enough understanding of the physics to say who is right or wrong, I'd be interested to hear from some guys here who do race in real life.

I've heard from some on the forums that grass isn't that slippery when it's dry, while others seem to think it's impossible to touch it without spinning out and dieing in a fiery wreck.

Grass is slippery to slicks. It's not like ice, but it's definitely slick but it's speed and density related. i.e. most tracks the grass isn't really manicured like a lawn so it looks full from a distance, but it's not really that full. With that, the tires are also interacting with just raw dirt as well. This why you'll see some races where drivers do take a trip off track through a chicane or turn and not completely crash.

As for astroturf, same thing. It's not as sticky as rubbered in tarmac, but it's not ice. You can find videos online of track days and races were people go wide at Imola (which at least used to have turf) and cars are not spinning like they are on ice. AC over does this one too much.

Roger Prynne
24-02-2017, 18:00
AC over does this one too much.

You got that right.

honespc
26-02-2017, 12:59
I do racing in NASA and the competition wet tires are rated the exact same as the competition dry tires (when both used in the dry). It's because the wet tire given it's soft compound can produce a similar if not a faster lap time. The main thing here is the overall ambient temperature as the softer compound will overheat quickly with normal to higher ambient temps.
1.16 onwards:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3tQ8FdykaIk

poirqc
26-02-2017, 14:32
1.16 onwards:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3tQ8FdykaIk

Great vid, great music, thanks!

bmanic
26-02-2017, 15:25
That's quite a dramatic video yes. However he did clearly say "they overheat in just a few laps" which can potentially mean that the first flying lap could theoretically be very fast but the heat buildup would be so extreme that it's useless going any further.

poirqc
26-02-2017, 16:00
That's quite a dramatic video yes. However he did clearly say "they overheat in just a few laps" which can potentially mean that the first flying lap could theoretically be very fast but the heat buildup would be so extreme that it's useless going any further.

Also, it's an F1, with alot more power and DF to burn them than other class.

Dnns84
26-02-2017, 17:43
A while ago I was doing an endurance race on the Nordschleife and at a point I decided to take a little break and hand the car over to the AI driver (I had enough of a lead, so he wouldn't run into any trouble). After a couple of laps, just as 'my' car passed the pits and started a new lap and it started raining. I wasn't doing a full 24h race, so the weather also progressed very fast and after a couple of corners the track was soaking wet. I was curious to see how the AI driver would handle that, so I kept watching and he had absolutely no problems driving the car, on slicks at a very wet Nordschleife and he even drove faster than his previous laps (no traffic or issues in those previous laps). By the end of the lap the rain stopped, so there was no need to switch to rain tires now, so I let the AI do a few more laps (also in times very close to the wet lap) before I got in the car again. This just doesn't make any sense at all.

Also the his comments on certain tires (that I have personal experience with) are on point. Take the Formula B car, where you can run your mediums about as hot as you want without consequence and they last way too long. We're doing a league season with the FB, we drive 40% of the length of an official formula 1 race, and even with tire wear set to 4x, you can still manage a 0 stop on some tracks (I did it on Imola, 25laps) and because of the way the medium works, the soft is obsolete, even in qualifying.

Mahjik
26-02-2017, 18:55
1.16 onwards:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3tQ8FdykaIk

Again, you don't understand... As mention, also depends on the ambient track temp. However, F1 tires are a different breed. If you really believe that all tires in the world are like F1 tires, I have a bridge to sell you...

Zpectre87
26-02-2017, 19:30
AI wet performance I believe depends on the car... They're quite fast with prototypes and since they're dumb robots they aren't susceptible to night and fog. But the other day I ran a GT4 career race at Oschersleben and I was faster relative to the AI in the wet than in the dry... Laguna Seca, same story. So I find it very questionable to say that AI will be superhuman in the wet, period. There are lots of variations in the game.

Roger Prynne
26-02-2017, 19:55
Again, you don't understand... As mention, also depends on the ambient track temp. However, F1 tires are a different breed. If you really believe that all tires in the world are like F1 tires, I have a bridge to sell you...

I already sold that one :rolleyes:

bghorn55
27-02-2017, 03:47
I do racing in NASA and the competition wet tires are rated the exact same as the competition dry tires (when both used in the dry). It's because the wet tire given it's soft compound can produce a similar if not a faster lap time. The main thing here is the overall ambient temperature as the softer compound will overheat quickly with normal to higher ambient temps.

You can't compare NASA sanctioned tires (street-legal Toyo Proxes) with true racing tires used in other higher racing series (cup, GTE/GT3 etc)
All DOT competition Toyo Proxes with exception of RR (lack of true thread) are designed for "wet and dry" conditions and use very similar rubber compounds. Your RA1 tire is not much softer than RR, if at all. That's why you can run around the dry track with your wet RA1 tire all day long. There's not much difference in contact patch either due to very simple RA1 thread design and RR having grooves.

Step up to something like Porsche cup or similar, where compound difference between wet and dry, (lets say Michelin p2g vs s8l for example) is rather larger in comparison to Proxes (but not nearly as in f1), and it will be another story, yet slick tire will still outperform wet tire in dry conditions for a whole lot of other reasons besides compound.

Mahjik
27-02-2017, 04:18
The Continental series uses rebadged Hoosier so I am referring to those slicks and wets. Yes, a RA1 is just an unshaved lower rcomp and Toyo's in general are a hard tire but there are plenty of other more competitive tires at that level. Aside from the upper echelon of motorsports, the tires aren't that different (I have use several take offs from pro teams).

SlowBloke
27-02-2017, 07:41
1.16 onwards:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3tQ8FdykaIk

Road tyres are wet tyres - they dont overheat in the dry.....

It all depends on the compound used and design.

breyzipp
27-02-2017, 08:03
A while ago I was doing an endurance race on the Nordschleife and at a point I decided to take a little break and hand the car over to the AI driver (I had enough of a lead, so he wouldn't run into any trouble). After a couple of laps, just as 'my' car passed the pits and started a new lap and it started raining. I wasn't doing a full 24h race, so the weather also progressed very fast and after a couple of corners the track was soaking wet. I was curious to see how the AI driver would handle that, so I kept watching and he had absolutely no problems driving the car, on slicks at a very wet Nordschleife and he even drove faster than his previous laps (no traffic or issues in those previous laps). By the end of the lap the rain stopped, so there was no need to switch to rain tires now, so I let the AI do a few more laps (also in times very close to the wet lap) before I got in the car again. This just doesn't make any sense at all.

Also the his comments on certain tires (that I have personal experience with) are on point. Take the Formula B car, where you can run your mediums about as hot as you want without consequence and they last way too long. We're doing a league season with the FB, we drive 40% of the length of an official formula 1 race, and even with tire wear set to 4x, you can still manage a 0 stop on some tracks (I did it on Imola, 25laps) and because of the way the medium works, the soft is obsolete, even in qualifying.

Yeah the AI on rain races needs a lot of work. I even "exploited" what you described on a very though race on Sakitto in career mode where weather conditions were flipping around like mad. The first 15 minutes it was dry -> wet -> dry. The last 15 minutes all hell broke loose and staying on slicks was suicide (I could barely even move the car out of the grass - impossible to stay on the road). If I was on wet tires then I was still spinning out a lot and hard to drive so slow that AI drivers cought up with me. So the way to win this was do the first 15 minutes of racing myself and pit twice, first from slicks to wet, then back to dry. During that 2nd pit stop I let Bob drive and he had no problem at all driving through those thunderstorms and soaking wet track.

AI & rain conditions (both competing AI and your own Bob fella) sure need work in PCARS2 (if compared to PCARS1).

OddTimer
27-02-2017, 08:58
Grass is slippery to slicks. It's not like ice, but it's definitely slick but it's speed and density related. i.e. most tracks the grass isn't really manicured like a lawn so it looks full from a distance, but it's not really that full. With that, the tires are also interacting with just raw dirt as well. This why you'll see some races where drivers do take a trip off track through a chicane or turn and not completely crash.

As for astroturf, same thing. It's not as sticky as rubbered in tarmac, but it's not ice. You can find videos online of track days and races were people go wide at Imola (which at least used to have turf) and cars are not spinning like they are on ice. AC over does this one too much.

Good info, thanks! Do you know if this level of detail will be in PCars2?

hkraft300
27-02-2017, 13:14
Good info, thanks! Do you know if this level of detail will be in PCars2?

I'm betting the answer is yes.
Considering the rallyX stuff, as well dirt/mud on the track simulated by Live track 3.0, I'd say it'll be close.

Mahjik
27-02-2017, 13:16
You can't compare NASA sanctioned tires (street-legal Toyo Proxes) with true racing tires used in other higher racing series (cup, GTE/GT3 etc)
All DOT competition Toyo Proxes with exception of RR (lack of true thread) are designed for "wet and dry" conditions and use very similar rubber compounds. Your RA1 tire is not much softer than RR, if at all. That's why you can run around the dry track with your wet RA1 tire all day long. There's not much difference in contact patch either due to very simple RA1 thread design and RR having grooves.

Step up to something like Porsche cup or similar, where compound difference between wet and dry, (lets say Michelin p2g vs s8l for example) is rather larger in comparison to Proxes (but not nearly as in f1), and it will be another story, yet slick tire will still outperform wet tire in dry conditions for a whole lot of other reasons besides compound.


The Continental series uses rebadged Hoosier so I am referring to those slicks and wets. Yes, a RA1 is just an unshaved lower rcomp and Toyo's in general are a hard tire but there are plenty of other more competitive tires at that level. Aside from the upper echelon of motorsports, the tires aren't that different (I have use several take offs from pro teams).

Just to make a point, here are points allocated for tire usage with the NASA rules:



1) The following DOT-approved R-compound tires: BFG R1S, Goodyear Eagle RS AC (auto-
cross), Hoosier A7, Hankook Z214 (C90 & C91 compounds only), Hoosier Wet DOT (if
used in dry conditions—see section 5.6) +22
2) The following DOT-approved R-compound tires: Hoosier A6 +17
3) The following DOT-approved R-compound tires and those with a UTQG treadwear rating of
40 or less not listed otherwise in these rules: BFG R1, Goodyear Eagle RS, Hankook Z214
(C71, C70, C51, C50), Hoosier R7, Kumho V710 +10
4) The following DOT-approved R-compound tires: Hoosier SM7 +9
5) The following DOT-approved R-compound tires: Hoosier R6, Hoosier SM6 (note:
Continental Tire Sportscar Challenge EC-Dry tires (225, 245, 275) OK) +8
6) The following DOT-approved R-compound tires: Toyo Proxes RR, Hankook TD,
Pirelli Trofeo R +5
7) The following DOT-approved tires and those R-compound tires with a UTQG treadwear
rating over 40: BFG Rival S, Bridgestone RE071-R, Maxxis RC-1 (examples: Kumho V700,
Kumho V720, Michelin Pilot Sport Cup & MPS Cup 2, Nitto NT01, Pirelli PZero Corsa,
Toyo R888, Toyo RA-1, Yokahama A048, etc.) +4
8) DOT-approved (non-R-compound) tires with a UTQG treadwear rating of 120-200
(examples: BFG g-Force Rival, Toyo R1R, Dunlop Direzza Sport Z1 Star Spec,
Bridgestone Potenza RE070, Kumho Ecsta XS, Yokohama Advan A046 & Neova AD08,
Hankook R-S3) +2
9) Non-DOT-approved racing slicks +30


As you can see, they do rate the Hoosier Wet tire in the dry as much as Hoosier's stickiest compound, the A7. Granted, it's mainly for Time Trials that it's an issue but you can be sure that someone in the past threw those on for a single hot lap which required them to be pointed that high. I'm not saying you could run a full race on them, but you can get a fast lap out of them.

As you can see, the RA1's which you mentioned are rated much lower (so yes, they can be used in the dry without too much of an issue).

Also, for those who have never driven on slicks verses normal tries with tread patterns, what happens is that as the tire warms up the tread block begins to "squirm" while driving. Typically, track drivers who use treaded tires will have them shaved down so the tread blocks are not as thick which helps with that issue. However, during wet driving, you want to have as much tread as possible to cut through the water.


Good info, thanks! Do you know if this level of detail will be in PCars2?

I can't say for sure, but I would say that SMS's work on non-tarmac behavior should influence all aspects (i.e. those who love tarmac racing but don't care about rallycross will still benefit from the knowledge gained learning how tires behave on non-tarmac surfaces.

OddTimer
27-02-2017, 13:55
Cheers guys!

breyzipp
28-02-2017, 19:51
His latest video, mainly about curb stones. Again some valid points. :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJyJQlzJunw

Mahjik
01-03-2017, 01:42
Click bait...

blowfishrulez
01-03-2017, 04:56
Only valid point is this one Kerbstone in Snetterton. I'd be surprised if it really is of a similar size as a LMP1 car.

Javaniceday
01-03-2017, 17:25
Click bait...

To be fair, I did think this specific video by Dyr_gl_PSN was rather petty.

Chimildo
10-03-2017, 11:36
Have you watched dyr vids on the things wrong with AC, it's quite funny when he seems very petty with PC and the only thing he seems to like about AC is the physics.

breyzipp
10-03-2017, 13:44
Have you watched dyr vids on the things wrong with AC, it's quite funny when he seems very petty with PC and the only thing he seems to like about AC is the physics.

Is there something more to like about AC then? It has outstanding fysics but the rest of the game is rather dull. Still a must-have experience for a racing game/sim fan IMO.

Doge
26-03-2017, 15:38
As hkraft300 has mentioned, wet/rain tires are designed to work at lower temperatures since water cools tires. His comparison of cold rain tires to cold dry tires is uninformed. As I said, he doesn't understand racing tires. Now, the cool dry tire performance may be a bit on the extreme but there is a reason F1 teams are able to and do use tire warmers. In general, any tire that is design work in cooler temperatures will be an overall "softer" compound.


Just seen this thread. May you elaborate about how exactly is it uninformed? Are you saying itīs OK that ambient temp wets on a completely flooded track are several seconds faster than ambient temp slicks on a bone dry track, in a high performance single seater???

Also, from where exaxtly you gather I donīt know wets are supposed to work at lower temperatures? Itīs not me who helped shape a game where the wets and inters perform their best at 100cš :rolleyes:


FB tyres aren't exactly "medium" and "soft", they're of same performance but behave differently. Think of them like Bridgestone v Michelin in F1.

Thatīs simply not true. The mediums are better at everything by huge margins.

hkraft300
26-03-2017, 23:03
Just seen this thread. May you elaborate about how exactly is it uninformed? Are you saying itīs OK that ambient temp wets on a completely flooded track are several seconds faster than ambient temp slicks on a bone dry track, in a high performance single seater???

Also, from where exaxtly you gather I donīt know wets are supposed to work at lower temperatures? Itīs not me who helped shape a game where the wets and inters perform their best at 100cš :rolleyes:
.

He meant wets (softer compound) tyres are designed to work in cooler track and ambient temperature. Tyres work better when the compound itself is hot: they get softer when hot and deform and flex to grip the road better up to a point. Too hot and the compound is too soft, shears off instead of gripping the road etc too much and get slippery.
Cold wet tyres on a wet track could well be faster than cold slicks on dry in an open wheel car.

If you find the Faretti "mediums" are faster, fine. What I'm saying is don't go by the "soft" and "medium" name for the Fb tyres they're named wrong and really are just tyres that behave differently. Have you specifically tried to tune the car for the "soft"?

honespc
27-03-2017, 12:23
Have you specifically tried to tune the car for the "soft"?Yes, a hundred times already. It won't make any difference vs the medium compound, even if this last used on a default setup. If that wasn't enough, inters are useless, and the wet tyres not overheating and totally wearing out on dry is another also known bug to FB.

FB is bugged to the core when it comes to tyres. Unfinished work that is. Everybody knows. You may keep your delusional attitude, but please don't make the rest take communion with a grindstone for a host.

We expect FB to have been fixed this time, for the simply fact it's one of the best categories in the game, way more fun than FA. People know this too, but because it's so bugged then FA is preferred.

hkraft300
27-03-2017, 12:55
He meant wets (softer compound) tyres are designed to work in cooler track and ambient temperature. Tyres work better when the compound itself is hot: they get softer when hot and deform and flex to grip the road better up to a point. Too hot and the compound is too soft, shears off instead of gripping the road etc too much and get slippery.
Cold wet tyres on a wet track could well be faster than cold slicks on dry in an open wheel car.

If you find the Faretti "mediums" are faster, fine. What I'm saying is don't go by the "soft" and "medium" name for the Fb.


You may keep your delusional attitude, but please don't make the rest take communion with a grindstone for a host.

We expect FB to have been fixed this time, for the simply fact it's one of the best categories in the game, way more fun than FA. People know this too, but because it's so bugged then FA is preferred.

:applause:

Because FB is so bugged it's completely unusable...
I didn't know I couldn't race the FB on "mediums" because they're faster than "softs" :rolleyes:

bmanic
27-03-2017, 22:36
One of the Formula B tires IS bugged.. doesn't keep you from racing of course but lets not deny facts please. I've written a very detailed post about some serious FFB issues and weird physics behavior of one of the tires (if I remember correctly it was the Yiro one). What's frustrating is that this was already mentioned [u]before release of the game[/b] and nothing was ever done to it.

If it wasn't one of the best cars in the game (very fun combination of power + downforce) I wouldn't care one bit.. but it just happens to be one of my favorites and it pains me that it never got fixed.

hkraft300
28-03-2017, 00:56
I'm not denying the odd behaviour of the fb tyres but calling the car completely unusable is proper bs.
Not sure of the ffb behaviour of the yiro tyres (aka soft), I haven't spent the time. The slip behaviour is odd and it's snappy. The balance of the car changes dramatically between the tyres, I can't remember which gives more understeer/oversteer.
I'll have to do some laps in it to be more precise.
Definitely one of the best cars in the game. It's not so intense fast-forward-Meth-binge like the fa. Not a fan of the heavy rear (I'm clumsy with brakes) and still need to learn the Aero better.

Javaniceday
28-03-2017, 01:04
I'm not denying the odd behaviour of the fb tyres but calling the car completely unusable is proper bs.


no one said the car is completely unusable. People are pointing out the issues with it (as an example) and hoping they fix it for pCARS2 because we all want the game to succeed. You can't fix a problem if you don't recognize it as one.

wet tires not wearing out within 2 or 3 laps due to overheating in hot and dry Dubai is a problem - you don't need to be an expert in tire physics to know this.

hkraft300
28-03-2017, 01:22
If you follow pc2 news there's big updates to the tyre and track physics.
So I'm confident these problems will be gone :)

I haven't commented on fb wet tyres driving in dry because I haven't done it.

honespc
28-03-2017, 12:27
If it wasn't one of the best cars in the game (very fun combination of power + downforce) I wouldn't care one bit.. but it just happens to be one of my favorites and it pains me that it never got fixed.That's exactly how I feel about FB.

Of course it's not an unusable category in the game. No one ever said that.

Now on a side note, when I hear people saying FormulaRenault is better than FB..., everyone to his own colour, but to me FB is way better and challenging when you push the car to the limit.

FB also allows you for a wider range of different setups. The Renault..., you either down the back just as much as you can compared to the front, and increase the dec. diff to 60% at the very least, or you will be running into a world of pain the moment you release the throttle at low speed. With FB you can fly even with default setup with just rasing a little bit the dec diff, and of course the zero camber exploit, as we could not have it any other way


no one said the car is completely unusableyup. Well said
_________________________________________

edit: So, can anyone confirm the FB will be rocking as much as it deserves this time in pc2?. Were all these issues dealt with?

Bealdor
28-03-2017, 13:06
...So, can anyone confirm the FB will be rocking as much as it deserves this time in pc2?...

No, because we're not even allowed to confirm (or deny) that the FB will make a return in PCARS 2 at all...

hkraft300
28-03-2017, 13:12
I thought Bell has confirmed the return of SMS Formula A/B/C (plus some) over on gtplanet!
If so, since he's confirmed it, are you bound by nda or can you spill some (if not all) the beans?

Zpectre87
06-04-2017, 15:58
If I had my way I'd make the FA cars similar to how the 3.5L era used to be, with different engine configurations. But they'll probably go with the current regs.

I'd also get rid of the DRS because, truth be told, we don't have the F1 license and therefore we have to "make up" DRS zones in many tracks. That's not too difficult to do, but it takes away from simulation a bit, just because you don't have the (admittedly convoluted) full F1 ruleset.

If FA was balls out, pure racing, IMO it would be more entertaining. :D

hkraft300
06-04-2017, 22:18
Not a fan of drs. SMS can do away with them.

Rambo_Commando
07-04-2017, 01:08
I don't use drs as much as I should and truth is I don't really care for it. But it's FA, so if SMS decides to keep drs then I hope they implement drs zones and not make the entire track a drs free or all. If drs infringes on f1 copyrights then I'm sure they can get away with changing the drs detection zones. Liberty media is a lot more friendlier than previous Bernie days.