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Cuba
09-03-2017, 14:17
Since pCARS2 will be the next big sim title to come out, I was wondering what we know about improvements to VR (HTC Vive), if any. I've looked around the forum but may have missed info related to VR support/improvements. Thanks!

RomKnight
09-03-2017, 15:19
Let's just say, along with everything else wrt to pC2 that you won't be disappointed.

Cuba
09-03-2017, 15:44
Glad to hear that! I've managed to get pCARS looking good in VR but still mostly playing AC since it has the best VR experience for me (visually and performance)... but how I miss pCARS AI, tracks, weather etc!!! I feel pCARS2 will be a great indicator as to what we can expect for VR for the next year or so.

RomKnight
09-03-2017, 16:13
Well, I could write ( i just did but deleted ) and develop on the subject. I'll just say that AC is still my last choice for a sim, even if we speak VR only.

But to hopefully avoid flaming, it's probably due to revive. I just can't get rid of the microstutter even alone at the track. There are other issues but this alone is a game breaker because it does not help *me* with nausea and headaches.

Cuba
09-03-2017, 16:22
I've not had issues with mircostutter, been successful at keeping between 80-88 fps for the most part. Even then it looks good graphics wise. It's the rest of the issues (AI, tracks, no weather etc.) that bore me. If I had VR issues, I'd abandon it quickly.

Hobbs77
09-03-2017, 16:32
Well, I could write ( i just did but deleted ) and develop on the subject. I'll just say that AC is still my last choice for a sim, even if we speak VR only.

But to hopefully avoid flaming, it's probably due to revive. I just can't get rid of the microstutter even alone at the track. There are other issues but this alone is a game breaker because it does not help *me* with nausea and headaches.

I'm with as far as AC concerned. It's my least favorite of all of them. I've got hundreds and hundreds of hours in on all the simbin titles, rfactor, dirt rally series ect., but can't get into AC. I have less than 200 hrs in with AC and most of that was fiddling with the settings and then quitting with disappointment with the car sounds, lack of track and cars, weather ect. The game never felt right to me, even in VR.

Oh well....at least I have all the others to play and I'm really looking forward to pCARS2!

Cuba
09-03-2017, 16:35
AC is my last choice of the sims I play, I left it for pCARS and R3E a while ago. To be honest, the only reason I got back on it was due to VR. For some reason, it works very well for me. I can run hours on it with no problem in VR. And graphics wise, it really does a great job, even running through Revive. Let's just say that I'll be a happy man once pCARS2 comes out. Even if VR is improved 10-20%, It'll be the only sim title I'll load up. Looking forward to what Sector 3 Studios has in store for R3E too; they seem very proactive and have a great sim in my opinion.

MaximusN
09-03-2017, 16:45
Well, I could write ( i just did but deleted ) and develop on the subject. I'll just say that AC is still my last choice for a sim, even if we speak VR only.

But to hopefully avoid flaming, it's probably due to revive. I just can't get rid of the microstutter even alone at the track. There are other issues but this alone is a game breaker because it does not help *me* with nausea and headaches.

AC doesn't have that problem on my PC(pretty similar to yours including Vive), but I still prefer PCars especially because of the day/night(godrays!!) transition and weather among other things. AC tends to feel bland and unengaging(to me). If I'm multiplaying with my friends at my home we tend to switch from time to time, but that's 95% down to AC having mods. So we can race on tracks like Assen.

RomKnight
09-03-2017, 16:46
Well, just sitting in the pitlane, stoped and no AI it's visible for me by just moving my head :(

/edit

Let me rephrase this one. It's worse when stopped at pit lane. Start moving and it'll turns into micro-stutter. Masked by the speed things are passing by, probably.

Cuba
09-03-2017, 16:51
AC doesn't have that problem on my PC(pretty similar to yours including Vive), but I still prefer PCars especially because of the day/night(godrays!!) transition and weather among other things. And the rain!!! OMG. I ran the Mercedes Sauber C9 in the rain and it was great! FPS took a hit, but pCARS manages low frame rates very well in VR! Gotta love a true Vive support! Well done SMS!

Cuba
09-03-2017, 16:53
^^Well, just sitting in the pitlane, stoped and no AI it's visible for me by just moving my head


That's weird. I'd have to really turn things up like AA to get that. I did mess with some settings in my NVidia Control Panel the other day and it caused some strange stutter in AC. I reset it to default and it went away.

beetes_juice
09-03-2017, 17:11
Well, I could write ( i just did but deleted ) and develop on the subject. I'll just say that AC is still my last choice for a sim, even if we speak VR only.

But to hopefully avoid flaming, it's probably due to revive. I just can't get rid of the microstutter even alone at the track. There are other issues but this alone is a game breaker because it does not help *me* with nausea and headaches.

Hope to avoid flaming also, but honest question, why the last choice for sim?

I've seen that thrown around here and other sites and have always wondered why. Tbh, since I've put down pcars1 I have about 500 hrs in AC vs a measly 75 in pcars2. VR experience has been great in AC and the overall experience has been smooth. A lot of that is due to league admins running top notch stuff but really don't get whats so wrong with AC. :confused:

Cuba
09-03-2017, 17:14
I have about 500 hrs in AC vs a measly 75 in pcars2.

You mean 75 hrs on pCARS1, right?

MaximusN
09-03-2017, 17:34
I have about 500 hrs in AC vs a measly 75 in pcars

With me it's the other way around 300something + at least 200 before it was on Steam for PCars. I don't even remember if the counter reset when it went gold on Steam and we used our code. AC has 150 hours even though I have all DLC minus Japanese. Starting to sound expensive when I put it this way.....

RomKnight
09-03-2017, 19:39
Nearly 1000h on pC1 and still not half some others have. And this is just after being on steam, obviously.

/edit because I missed Beetes_juice post

Let's just say personal preference. I don't want thread to derail plus, you know, simworld, expectations and all that. Too much debate and in the end we'll just agree to disagree :) Got better with v10 on ALL cars though.

@Cuba
Now that you mention it I THINK I've changed the v-sync to fast... but still... in all games (not just sims) in VR it's the only one that does this :(
And to me and my eyes it really is a pain, literally.

Cuba
10-03-2017, 12:50
@Cuba Now that you mention it I THINK I've changed the v-sync to fast... but still... in all games (not just sims) in VR it's the only one that does this :(
And to me and my eyes it really is a pain, literally.

I don't limit any frames and disable "Interleaved Reprojection" in SteamVR. I disable Post Processing (some people say they can run with PP, I can't, makes things blurry and drops FPS) and I set AAx2. Turn "Anisotropic filtering" all the way up x16 (no big hit on FPS/performance), makes long distance objects cleaner. I'm hitting a fairly constant 87 FPS with good graphics. Not trying to push you to AC, but really confused as to why you are having such a hard time with the VR, looking at your rig, you and I should be seeing similar performance. In the end, it probably won't matter since you don't play AC much, but It'd be nice for you to get a comparison between AC (which most agree is the best sim experience performance wise in VR) to pCARS1 and 2.

RomKnight
10-03-2017, 16:16
I had fast-vsync enable for triple-screen. I just don't know if I ever disable it. Been a few updates of drivers and I do clean installs but might have kept the habit of enable that.

Again though... just AC. no other game (even with revive) does this. I don't run PP either... seriously, I can't even see with that enabled (don't know if it changed by now).

I don't recall other settings though.

For quite a while though, it's more that I don't play at all (when I do I want to test pC2, OBVIOUSLY :D )

BTW, ist there a way to see the FPS in VR now? I recall I've struggled to find an answer before. I can tell you if there's even a hint of stutter though as in VR is quite noticeable and not just on the eyes (for me).

Cuba
10-03-2017, 16:31
I had fast-vsync enable for triple-screen. I just don't know if I ever disable it. Been a few updates of drivers and I do clean installs but might have kept the habit of enable that.

Again though... just AC. no other game (even with revive) does this. I don't run PP either... seriously, I can't even see with that enabled (don't know if it changed by now).

I don't recall other settings though.

For quite a while though, it's more that I don't play at all (when I do I want to test pC2, OBVIOUSLY :D )

BTW, ist there a way to see the FPS in VR now? I recall I've struggled to find an answer before. I can tell you if there's even a hint of stutter though as in VR is quite noticeable and not just on the eyes (for me).

Completely understand spending your time on pCARS2, lucky dog! WRT FPS in VR, the Vive has some funky "Frames Missed" graph that is confusing as $h!t. You can activate it to show on the right hand Vive controller. You have to actually twist the controller to see the graph (it's on the outside edge of the controller, when viewed through headset obviously :)). Great idea, but sucks for driving games. I use MSI Afterburner and just pull the headset down to do a quick check on the monitor. Fortunately, I have it all dialed in now so I don't have to check FPS unless I make a change to settings or try a different track which may seem like a performance hog.

Cuba
10-03-2017, 16:41
BTW, if SMS needs more VR testers for pCARS2 I'll gladly sacrifice my time :)

RomKnight
10-03-2017, 17:41
The missed frames showed up directly in the HMD. Never used the controller for it... maybe it has changed. I also don't remember seeing FPS there.

But if I have to use that I rather call my daughter so she tells me the FPS on the monitor with MSI:A

wrt to pc2, you're late BUT don't despair... I'm sure we'll have the opportunity to pC3. I know i'll be there if so :)

Cuba
10-03-2017, 17:47
LOL! At first, I had my son holding the dumb controller while I drove. It mush have looked ridiculous, me driving with VR gear on and him holding a controller in front of me...oh the workarounds we come up with!!!! LOL. I'll def be in on the next project. Thx!

sherpa25
11-09-2017, 10:54
Around 6 months since the last post, so can anyone share how the VR interface is w/in the Rift? I heard good things from the PC2 series vid (ie. controls available, adjustable) but not much details. Will the UI/menu settings in main screen and pits be controllable already w/in the Rift? Is a mouse needed for the HMD pointer, or will the pointer follow the movement of the HMD, and if the latter, how is a selection made?

John Hargreaves
11-09-2017, 11:45
Think of PC2 VR as similar but improved on the PC1 VR. You have the HMD controlled cursor, which you can line up and then click with a button on your wheel or controller (basically the normal 'select' button). If you move your mouse, that then takes priority and you can move and select with the mouse until you stop and after a few seconds of staring still, the HMD cursor appears again. It will also do that thing where holding it over something will auto select after about five seconds.
Like I said, it's similar to PC1, but it works well overall and is a slick and seamless process. You can pretty much control everything in the game with the headset and your hands on the wheel, you never need to come out of VR at all.

sherpa25
11-09-2017, 12:05
Think of PC2 VR as similar but improved on the PC1 VR. You have the HMD controlled cursor, which you can line up and then click with a button on your wheel or controller (basically the normal 'select' button). If you move your mouse, that then takes priority and you can move and select with the mouse until you stop and after a few seconds of staring still, the HMD cursor appears again. It will also do that thing where holding it over something will auto select after about five seconds.
Like I said, it's similar to PC1, but it works well overall and is a slick and seamless process. You can pretty much control everything in the game with the headset and your hands on the wheel, you never need to come out of VR at all.

Though I don't have PC1, nor have I seen it in VR, that sounds great! So this control is available at the very start of the UI?

Further, can you elaborate a bit re VR control of HUD's when on pits or on track, like what adjustments can (or cannot) be made w/ them? Thanks.

John Hargreaves
11-09-2017, 12:38
Yes the HMD cursor works from the moment you boot up the game, it's basically like a mouse cursor but you control its position with your head, it's very quick and efficient. The HUD control is as normal, so you cycle through the various screens with D-pad Left and they kind of float in space in the cockpit in front of you. To be honest, I always turn all HUD screens off in VR, it's much more immersive for me, but I might have a quick scroll through to check tyre temps, race position etc now and then if I need to.

jpmmuc
11-09-2017, 14:26
Think of PC2 VR as similar but improved on the PC1 VR. You have the HMD controlled cursor, which you can line up and then click with a button on your wheel or controller (basically the normal 'select' button). If you move your mouse, that then takes priority and you can move and select with the mouse until you stop and after a few seconds of staring still, the HMD cursor appears again. It will also do that thing where holding it over something will auto select after about five seconds.
Like I said, it's similar to PC1, but it works well overall and is a slick and seamless process. You can pretty much control everything in the game with the headset and your hands on the wheel, you never need to come out of VR at all.
The UI in the VR implementation from Project Cars 1 was already good and it's even more polished in Project Cars 2.

sherpa25
11-09-2017, 16:09
Yes the HMD cursor works from the moment you boot up the game, it's basically like a mouse cursor but you control its position with your head, it's very quick and efficient. The HUD control is as normal, so you cycle through the various screens with D-pad Left and they kind of float in space in the cockpit in front of you. To be honest, I always turn all HUD screens off in VR, it's much more immersive for me, but I might have a quick scroll through to check tyre temps, race position etc now and then if I need to.

Can the HUD positions be adjusted (ie. Left/right, and nearer/farther from view), or are they in fixed positions? Thanks.

John Hargreaves
11-09-2017, 18:05
That's a good question. I haven't tried that exact thing, but you can certainly alter the positions of HUD elements in 2D, so I can't see how it would be any different in VR. Trouble is we can't test any more as the WMD2 Steam keys have been revoked in preparation for release. I guess we'll all have to wait for the 22nd to find out for definite.

I don't think anyone will be disappointed in PC2 VR implementation though, it's overall an extremely slick experience and as good as any game out there that isn't designed primarily as a VR title, so IMO it is the best racing title I have tried in VR (AC, LFS, rFactor) and better implemented than say DCS or X-Plane 11 + flyinside. One of the top devs on the team is a big fan of VR, so he made sure they did a good job. It is noticeably improved from PC1 in every way I can think of.

born2bslow
11-09-2017, 21:14
You can position the HUD elements anywhere on the screen but not distance (far/near) as far as I'm aware.

I second what John H said above. Of all the current racing sim VR implementations PC1 was slicker than most, PC2 is just click go and it works from the first screen. No messing about whatsoever.

Purg
12-09-2017, 06:22
The career mode video released recently had a small section with VR improvements. Being able to move UI elements or have them off to the side so they're not visible while looking ahead (as I do with AC) was mentioned. Being able to adjust mirrors which I've not seen in any other game was another.

IB has mentioned several times that he wants to be at the forefront of new tech incorporated into pC2 and it looks like they've thought a lot about VR and are set to deliver the best experience yet.

sherpa25
12-09-2017, 11:06
The career mode video released recently had a small section with VR improvements. Being able to move UI elements or have them off to the side so they're not visible while looking ahead (as I do with AC) was mentioned. Being able to adjust mirrors which I've not seen in any other game was another.

IB has mentioned several times that he wants to be at the forefront of new tech incorporated into pC2 and it looks like they've thought a lot about VR and are set to deliver the best experience yet.

Right! That's also where I heard about that, but I can no longer find which specific time it was mentioned. That's why I asked here to check for more details about it from backers who may have seen/used it. :)

But @born2bslow, being part of WMD, how come you're not aware of it (ie. HUD repositioning be distance), as it was mentioned in that #4 career video? Didn't you have access to previous builds? Just curious.

Sounds great, if this is included. :)

John Hargreaves
12-09-2017, 12:02
You would not believe how many different aspects of the game had subforums and feedback discussions; most of us tended to stick to areas we were familiar with - AI, physics, art etc It was impossible to keep up with everything. For instance, testing in VR, you would also be looking for art issues around the track, UI functionality, physics and tyre issues, vehicle art, general performance and framerate issues etc, and each item that came up needed a written feedback and often a video to reproduce the issue. This really is a massive game with so many different permutations. There will surely be things we missed, and there will be patches incoming, but we definitely did the best we could between us before first release..

sherpa25
18-09-2017, 02:56
BTW (couldn't find info, pardon if asked already), is there a function(s)/setting for 'lock to horizon', especially useful for VR? Not familiar w/ the PC1 'head movement functions', so if these are similar and used to address this, perhaps someone can elaborate a bit. Thanks.

Cuba
22-09-2017, 14:35
Well...how is PCars2 in VR? Any HTC Vive users out there that can share their first-hand experience with PCars2 in VR. Thx!

mr_belowski
22-09-2017, 14:39
PCars2 + Vive is slightly better than PCars1 + Vive for me. Not the night and day difference some folks have reported. Supersampling doesn't work (at all - makes no difference whatsoever) but MSAA on High does a decent job. Performance is OK - a slight improvement but still relies on reprojection for anything more than minimal settings (i5 4690k@ 4.4GHz / nVidia 1080GTX). The exposure issues from PCars1 appear to have been fixed, but there's still a lot of glare which really washes the image out

Chin
22-09-2017, 14:41
BTW (couldn't find info, pardon if asked already), is there a function(s)/setting for 'lock to horizon', especially useful for VR? Not familiar w/ the PC1 'head movement functions', so if these are similar and used to address this, perhaps someone can elaborate a bit. Thanks.

"World Movement" is how you control the car vs. world movement. It is continually adjustable between 0-100. There are also settings for the helmet cam/VR that allow additional camera movement (look to apex, leaning, etc), is you are so inclined.

Hipor
23-09-2017, 16:02
PCars2 + Vive is slightly better than PCars1 + Vive for me. Not the night and day difference some folks have reported. Supersampling doesn't work (at all - makes no difference whatsoever) but MSAA on High does a decent job. Performance is OK - a slight improvement but still relies on reprojection for anything more than minimal settings (i5 4690k@ 4.4GHz / nVidia 1080GTX). The exposure issues from PCars1 appear to have been fixed, but there's still a lot of glare which really washes the image out

yes same here had expected more with the HTC VIVE I7-4770k 4.5HGz and 1080gtx

Mad Al
23-09-2017, 16:05
You would not believe how many different aspects of the game had subforums and feedback discussions; most of us tended to stick to areas we were familiar with - AI, physics, art etc It was impossible to keep up with everything. For instance, testing in VR, you would also be looking for art issues around the track, UI functionality, physics and tyre issues, vehicle art, general performance and framerate issues etc, and each item that came up needed a written feedback and often a video to reproduce the issue. This really is a massive game with so many different permutations. There will surely be things we missed, and there will be patches incoming, but we definitely did the best we could between us before first release..

Damn.. I knew I must be doing something wrong for the last two years, I was trying to read everything.. ;)