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ElCid4300
17-03-2017, 16:21
Hello everyone,

Currently on a PS4 Pro but very interested in a PC for a few reasons. First, if I get a PC with a 1080 card and a I7-7700k will I have the "problem" with graphics I am having now in that sometimes trees/fences/walls kinda pop-up and disappear trackside and in the distance, also in the mirrors too. It seems maybe the PS4 isn't "drawing " the graphics correctly or able to keep up, hopefully that makes sense. Secondly, the car mods are really cool! Third, I can get a direct drive wheel!!

Hopefully someone can give me some input into the PC/graphics side of things.

Thanks

Ryzza5
18-03-2017, 04:23
Best idea would be to look at YouTube videos from PC players here - I'm pretty sure with the specs you mention that will not be an issue once you turn the visual settings up.

Mad Al
18-03-2017, 09:19
The PS4 version does have lower graphics settings than you can manage on a high end PC..

There will occasionally be a few odd pop ups even on PC, where the draw distance for a specific billboard or tree hasn't quite been sorted (or there aren't any low LODs), but generally you should get less of it on higher PC settings. There is also an enhanced mirror option which improves the quality and draw distance for the mirror.. a lot of people find reduced mirror quality annoying.
Of course once you have the PC and a decent GPU, you will then wonder if VR is worth a look (it is!)... and then you'll find out that a PC is just a pit to throw money into.. :)

ElCid4300
18-03-2017, 11:43
Thank you both! Now I just need to finalize my specs on my PC. I don't care about looks or getting extra stuff I don't need. I just want the basics that will give great performance without all the extra fluff like pretty cases or LEDs (not that I have anything against that, just not my thing)!

Thanks again!

F1aw1ess
24-03-2017, 10:30
Thank you both! Now I just need to finalize my specs on my PC. I don't care about looks or getting extra stuff I don't need. I just want the basics that will give great performance without all the extra fluff like pretty cases or LEDs (not that I have anything against that, just not my thing)!

Thanks again!

Spec it up here to make sure you're gunna have what you need first unless you know exactly what you're doing?

ElCid4300
24-03-2017, 11:08
Spec it up here to make sure you're gunna have what you need first unless you know exactly what you're doing?

Thanks. I am thinking of an I7-7700k and a 1080 or maaaaaybe a 1080ti (don't want to have to mess with this system for a very long time). I am unsure how important motherboards and memory impact gaming (I won't use this system for anything else) so I don't know if I can save a bit of money on those just yet. As for a case, it will be in my basement with my rig so dust could be an issue and I will need to look into that.

Is there much of a difference between the 1080 cards? I see them range from 500 to 600+ and don't want to spend extra if the difference is "blingy" or not worth it.

Also, I am using an LG 43" 4k tv and would like to continue using that for a while, although i will probably go triples once my wallet recovers! As long as I have HDMI 2 on my tv, I should be good for 4k at 60 herts, right?

Thanks for any input.

F1aw1ess
24-03-2017, 11:48
Thanks. I am thinking of an I7-7700k and a 1080 or maaaaaybe a 1080ti (don't want to have to mess with this system for a very long time). I am unsure how important motherboards and memory impact gaming (I won't use this system for anything else) so I don't know if I can save a bit of money on those just yet. As for a case, it will be in my basement with my rig so dust could be an issue and I will need to look into that.

Is there much of a difference between the 1080 cards? I see them range from 500 to 600+ and don't want to spend extra if the difference is "blingy" or not worth it.

Also, I am using an LG 43" 4k tv and would like to continue using that for a while, although i will probably go triples once my wallet recovers! As long as I have HDMI 2 on my tv, I should be good for 4k at 60 herts, right?

Thanks for any input.

yeah specs are about correct if you want to run 3x 1080p screens @ around 60fps with most of the bells and whistles on, one 4k screen or VR, ive not tried VR but heard only good things. Out of interest what fps does the PS4 Pro push out @ 4k and is it actually native 4k or just an upscaled image?

Obviously 1080Ti is quite a lot more powerful than the 1080 but you pay for it so it depends on budget.

Different between the 1080 cards are cooling design and some 3rd party iterations have slightly improved power delivery. The stock FE and Turbo cards have blower style fans which are generally louder and dont cool as well. I personally would pay the extra for a Gigabyte, EVGA, Asus etc etc. Especially if you go for a case that is nice and silent you dont really want to spoil it with a noisy GPU.

Case wise, have a look at Fractal Designs stuff, understated, super silent and decent build quality, most come with dust filters, the R5 would probably suit you nicely.

16gb DDR4 Ram, you could skimp on 8gb but i personally wouldnt not with the specs of the rest of the machine.

SSD - Samsung 850 EVO 512gb seems to be the sweet spot between size and performance.

Motherboard chipsets only really come into play when you're overclocking, the lower chipsets wont allow multiplyer overclocking so if you want to overclock then you'll need the higher chipsets otherwise its a couple of USB slots and Dual GPU capabilities you lose on the lower end ones. Very little in the way of stock performance.

and dont skimp out on the power supply!

ElCid4300
24-03-2017, 12:05
yeah specs are about correct if you want to run 3x 1080p screens @ around 60fps with most of the bells and whistles on, one 4k screen or VR, ive not tried VR but heard only good things. Out of interest what fps does the PS4 Pro push out @ 4k and is it actually native 4k or just an upscaled image?

Obviously 1080Ti is quite a lot more powerful than the 1080 but you pay for it so it depends on budget.

Different between the 1080 cards are cooling design and some 3rd party iterations have slightly improved power delivery. The stock FE and Turbo cards have blower style fans which are generally louder and dont cool as well. I personally would pay the extra for a Gigabyte, EVGA, Asus etc etc. Especially if you go for a case that is nice and silent you dont really want to spoil it with a noisy GPU.

Case wise, have a look at Fractal Designs stuff, understated, super silent and decent build quality, most come with dust filters, the R5 would probably suit you nicely.

16gb DDR4 Ram, you could skimp on 8gb but i personally wouldnt not with the specs of the rest of the machine.

SSD - Samsung 850 EVO 512gb seems to be the sweet spot between size and performance.

Motherboard chipsets only really come into play when you're overclocking, the lower chipsets wont allow multiplyer overclocking so if you want to overclock then you'll need the higher chipsets otherwise its a couple of USB slots and Dual GPU capabilities you lose on the lower end ones. Very little in the way of stock performance.

and dont skimp out on the power supply!

Wow, thanks for all of that info, it really helps me out!

I think the ps4 pro is limited to 30fps at 4k if the game is patched for 4k by the developer. If not, the new "boost mode" gives it a pretty steady 60fps at 1080p.

As for the mobo, I am not really sure I will overclock (might not get the K) as I might want to keep it more "simple" if the gains aren't worth the hassle. What type of mobo could I get away with in that case?

Thank you you again for your very helpful and detailed response!

F1aw1ess
24-03-2017, 12:29
I believe only the Z270 chipset supports 4K hardware content playback and as you already have a 4K TV i suspect you might probably use this so any Z270 chipset (I personally use Asus boards) this will also do overclocking if you want it.

I also think the non K version has a lower stock clock so maybe worth the extra anyway, especially if your trying to push 4k frames.

ElCid4300
24-03-2017, 12:43
Aha, well then that settles it!

Thank you for theinfo :encouragement:

konnos
24-03-2017, 16:03
If you want 60fps at 4k you have to look into the outputs of the gfxcard. The newer HDMIs will support output at 60fps 4k but the older ones only 30fps 4k. Displayport is generally free of these things and has 60fps 4k and so does DVI, which is the same digital signal with HDMI but without the sound. So check what versions of HDMI it puts out, most good card alse have Displayport anyway.

PS4 is not native 4k but it's a little better than 1080p (which it might not be a lot, but it is pretty good) and then it is upscaled to 4k to be shown better at the TVs native resolution.

ElCid4300
24-03-2017, 18:24
If you want 60fps at 4k you have to look into the outputs of the gfxcard. The newer HDMIs will support output at 60fps 4k but the older ones only 30fps 4k. Displayport is generally free of these things and has 60fps 4k and so does DVI, which is the same digital signal with HDMI but without the sound. So check what versions of HDMI it puts out, most good card alse have Displayport anyway.

PS4 is not native 4k but it's a little better than 1080p (which it might not be a lot, but it is pretty good) and then it is upscaled to 4k to be shown better at the TVs native resolution.

Wouldn't the GTX 1080 have the right HDMI for 60fps 4k? I think it's 2.0b.

F1aw1ess
24-03-2017, 18:41
Wouldn't the GTX 1080 have the right HDMI for 60fps 4k? I think it's 2.0b.

My 980ti does so in 99% sure all of them will

ElCid4300
24-03-2017, 18:51
My 980ti does so in 99% sure all of them will

Ok, great! Just worried that I get the PC and it won't look any better lol. Although I will still be able to get the DD wheel... and have the benefit of being able to add mods to the game.

Thanks

ElCid4300
29-03-2017, 17:09
Looks like I am getting a PC this weekend. There is a new prebuilt near me that has an I7-7700k, MSI z270 mobo, 16g DDR4-3000, GTX 1080 card, and 480g SSD, plus some other stuff like card reader, DVD drive etc for $1400. I priced it out and being as careful as possible picking out parts I could't get close to this price...plus I get a 1 year warranty, Windows, etc.

Sound pretty good?

bradleyland
29-03-2017, 18:50
Just to confirm, is this stuff all new, or is it used? If it's used, that's a totally different story. Assuming it's new...

That's around $1,130 (Newegg prices), just in core parts, not including power supply, case, cable mgmt etc. Keep in mind that MSI makes a ton of Z270 motherboards, so make sure you're not comparing an M3 to an M7 (for example). Between all the ancillary stuff, plus a Windows license, that's definitely worth $1,400. Another thing to consider is that if you've never built a PC before, it'd be worth it to buy a prebuilt that has been tested. There are plenty of opportunities to bone up a system build. Bending a pin, accidentally shorting the mobo to the case, or banging up a slot can get expensive real quick.

Price check:

$160 MSI M3 Z270 motherboard: https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130971&cm_re=msi_motherboard-_-13-130-971-_-Product

$350 Intel i7-7700K processor: https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819117726&cm_re=intel_i7_7700k-_-19-117-726-_-Product

$120 2x 8GB DDR4 3000 memory: https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820236039&cm_re=16gb_ram-_-20-236-039-_-Product

$500 EVGA GTX 1080 video card: https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814487278&cm_re=gtx_1080-_-14-487-278-_-Product

Total $1,130

This doesn't include a case, power supply, DVD drive, or any ancillary stuff like cable management, fans, etc. Figure on another $250 for that stuff, which would bring you to $1,280, without Windows.

For a prebuilt system, that's a good deal.

bradleyland
29-03-2017, 19:07
As far as performance goes, keep in mind that it's all about resolution and settings. When you get this PC and you load up pCARS, don't be surprised if you max all the visual settings, try to run full 4K resolution, and find that your framerate sucks, or you get pop-ins (when trees magically appear). You've got to spend a pile of money to get to a point where you can avoid any tweaking and crank everything to the max at 4K.

The key thing to understand is that the system you've got here will absolutely outperform a PS4 Pro. The PS4 Pro is equivalent to a (roughly) $700 gaming PC (https://www.gamespot.com/articles/we-built-a-pc-using-ps4-pro-specs-how-does-it-perf/1100-6443491/). Everything you've got here beats the PS4 Pro by a significant margin. You will be able to run more aggressive settings. How much more will depend.

The most important thing to keep in mind is that screen area scales at (approximately) a square of the linear resolution.

1080p: 1920x1080 = 2,073,600 pixels
4K: 3840x2160 = 8,294,400 pixels

That's four times the pixels that have to be rendered by jumping from 1080p to 4K. That's why the PS4 Pro resorts to some clever tricks (https://www.extremetech.com/gaming/235274-how-sonys-playstation-4-pro-does-4k-without-delivering-4k) to deliver 4K gaming.

Then there's the matter of the game quality settings. Resolution is just one setting of many that affect how the game looks. The PS4 (old version) could run pCARS at 4K if you were able to turn the settings down low enough. The complexity of the game's graphics have a lot to do with frame rates and drawing latency (pop-in).

You also need to understand that some of the "tricks" that the PS4 Pro uses to render at 4K aren't available on PC. Developers who release titles for the PS4 build them specifically for the PS4's hardware, including any clever hardware tricks required to output 4K resolution on inexpensive hardware.

All of this boils down to getting your expectations in the right place. I've seen a lot of people develop the expectation that by spending $1,400, they'll be able to run everything maxed out at 4K (or VR), and all their woes of performance limitations will be left in the past with their gaming console. The PC gaming experience is fantastic, and it far exceeds what you've seen on your gaming consoles, but you'll still need to be prepared to adjust your game settings in order to get the performance you're looking for.

I'm sure you're going to be thrilled. Enjoy it!

ElCid4300
29-03-2017, 19:56
Just to confirm, is this stuff all new, or is it used? If it's used, that's a totally different story. Assuming it's new...

That's around $1,130 (Newegg prices), just in core parts, not including power supply, case, cable mgmt etc. Keep in mind that MSI makes a ton of Z270 motherboards, so make sure you're not comparing an M3 to an M7 (for example). Between all the ancillary stuff, plus a Windows license, that's definitely worth $1,400. Another thing to consider is that if you've never built a PC before, it'd be worth it to buy a prebuilt that has been tested. There are plenty of opportunities to bone up a system build. Bending a pin, accidentally shorting the mobo to the case, or banging up a slot can get expensive real quick.

Price check:

$160 MSI M3 Z270 motherboard: https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130971&cm_re=msi_motherboard-_-13-130-971-_-Product

$350 Intel i7-7700K processor: https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819117726&cm_re=intel_i7_7700k-_-19-117-726-_-Product

$120 2x 8GB DDR4 3000 memory: https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820236039&cm_re=16gb_ram-_-20-236-039-_-Product

$500 EVGA GTX 1080 video card: https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814487278&cm_re=gtx_1080-_-14-487-278-_-Product

Total $1,130

This doesn't include a case, power supply, DVD drive, or any ancillary stuff like cable management, fans, etc. Figure on another $250 for that stuff, which would bring you to $1,280, without Windows.

For a prebuilt system, that's a good deal.

Yes sir, it's all brand new in a box, with a gaming mouse and keyboard too! If I hunted and poked for for a long time I could probably do better but not by much....and I don't think I could wait that long anyway ;)

I understand about the settings and such, and although I am expecting a lot, I am realistic in my expectations. I won't have a problem turning stuff down to meet my requirements. I did see a video on YouTube where a guy was getting about 60fps 4k with a 1070 card so I am hopeful that the 1080 will be able to pull it off.

Then there is the OSW wheel to look forward too.

Thanks for the input!

F1aw1ess
29-03-2017, 21:23
Yeah nice machine, without AA it should push 4K at decent frames with mostly high settings.

My 980Ti can do 5760x1080 (6,220,800) at a solid 60fps at mostly high/med settings with AA on. 4K is about 25% more pixels and the 1080 is about 20% faster than a 980Ti so i reckon you're right on the money performance wise. I cant really comment on pricing as im from the UK.

ElCid4300
30-03-2017, 12:21
OK, trying to get ahead of things for the big day any get a couple of games...but how? I guess CDs are a thing of the past with PCs? To be honest I am clueless on Steam, can you just download the games from there or is there more crap to it like having to be online, etc? I guess I just want the game on the PC and not have to be bothered with a bunch of other stuff. Is this possible?

Sorry for the TOTAL newbishness here! You guys have been so helpful so far!

F1aw1ess
30-03-2017, 13:30
DVD's arent really used much anymore, just set yourself up a Steam account and buy any games you like. They will go into a library but you dont have to install them if you dont want to.

If you fancy a few games it might be clever to setup Steam, buy the games and download them on your current PC (capacity allowing). Then when you have your new one, copy the steamapps\common folder from the old PC and move it to the same location on the new one. When you then install the game on the new one it will discover the already downloaded games so you dont have to download them again.

ElCid4300
30-03-2017, 14:50
DVD's arent really used much anymore, just set yourself up a Steam account and buy any games you like. They will go into a library but you dont have to install them if you dont want to.

If you fancy a few games it might be clever to setup Steam, buy the games and download them on your current PC (capacity allowing). Then when you have your new one, copy the steamapps\common folder from the old PC and move it to the same location on the new one. When you then install the game on the new one it will discover the already downloaded games so you dont have to download them again.

Those were my thoughts with getting the discs, but I guess this is how it's done now :). So I don't have to worry about being online and all that, correct? I don't have to sign into anything to play my games?

Thanks again for everything

F1aw1ess
30-03-2017, 15:55
You obviously have to be online to download the games initially and although there is an offline mode in Steam most games want you to be online as they save to the cloud and have multiplayer parts to each game.

I've never tried pCars in offline mode so someone else will have to confirm what is and isnt available whilst in this mode.

ElCid4300
30-03-2017, 15:58
Sounds good, guess I am just a little nervous about it all lol. Guess it isn't a big deal then.

Thank you

bradleyland
30-03-2017, 16:48
Heh, you used to be able to buy pCARS on DVD through Amazon, but it says unavailable now. Times, they are a changin'.

I've bought games through Steam, and overall, it's a pretty solid experience. The benefit of Steam is that you get access to their gamer network. It's similar to PSN or XBLive, where you can message people, build a friend list, join friend's games, etc.

Steam has had its ups and downs over the years, but on the whole, I really like it. Your game licenses are managed through a single login, so there are no more keys to keep track of, and you never have to worry about putting a game DVD in the drive again. You just launch and play. The down side is just like any other gaming network (PSN/XBL). When it goes down (and it will!), you're (sometimes) screwed.

This is something you'll want to confirm with other PC users, but some games use Steam network features for their online play, because Steam provides anti-cheat APIs, ban mechanisms, etc. So if a game uses those, you won't be able to play online when Steam is down. I don't know if pCARS on PC-Steam relies on these features, so it'd be nice if someone could confirm whether you can/cannot play the Steam edition of pCARS online when the Steam network is down.

Whether or not you can play the game when offline (no internet) depends on the title. I don't think pCARS has that restriction, but you should check with other PC guys to be sure.

konnos
30-03-2017, 17:40
Yes Steam has an offline mode and you can play games that don't require you to be online just fine. Obviously, in PCARS you can't do time trials and online races, but the other stuff works.

Once you have downloaded a game you can play it from steam in offline.

ElCid4300
30-03-2017, 17:53
Beautiful, thank you so much guys! Two more days!

ElCid4300
01-04-2017, 21:21
Welk, I got it! Set up Steam and all that jazz, things were going well.. and then the screen just started flashing on and off, on and off, over and over... Trying some windows updates to see if it fixes it... If not a drive back to Micro center. Crap

ElCid4300
01-04-2017, 22:59
Update didn't do anything but as a last ditch I tried a different HDMI port on the TV and presto, it works again.

Guess I am already learning about the PC "learning curve"
:p

F1aw1ess
02-04-2017, 10:23
Update didn't do anything but as a last ditch I tried a different HDMI port on the TV and presto, it works again.

Guess I am already learning about the PC "learning curve"
:p

Haha yes you will spend more time tweaking than playing on a PC.

Have you gone through all of the settings and made sure you have maxed as many as you can whilst still maintaining around 60FPS? I dont think pCars has a built in FPS counter (correct me if im wrong) so you can use either NVidia ShadowPlay (now called share) within the GeForce Experience which you probably already have installed if you have the latest NVidia drivers plus its also a very good gameplay recording program or if you want something with a bit more info I personally use MSI Afterburner which can be downloaded here http://www.guru3d.com/index.php?ct=files&action=download&

Its mainly a graphics card overclocking tool but it has a very nice on screen overlay that can display all sorts of information about both your processor and graphics cards, like usage, temperature, FPS, frametime, VRAM usage, CPU usage, fan speeds etc etc.

If you go into the settings under monitoring and select the items you would like to see in the OSD then go to On-Screen-Display tab and set a specific button to turn it on and off whilst in game. This means you can tinker with all of your settings whilst in game and monitor the effect it has on your FPS. You might also want to read up on what Frametime is as that is also very important but coming from a PS4 you possibly havent heard about it?

As a starting point I on settings I would suggest;

Resolution: 3840x2160@60hz
Vsync - On
Render Ahead Frames - 2
Texture - High
AA - off (might cause shimmering on some straight edges off but its quite hard on the system with it on)
FXAA - off (causes a soft almost blurry look to the game)
SMAA - Off (same as above)

The others would probably need to be around the medium mark to ensure you can push decent fps @ 4k but it gives you a good starting point.

Enjoy :)

http://personal.chandlerit.co.uk/pCars/1.png

http://personal.chandlerit.co.uk/pCars/2.png

http://personal.chandlerit.co.uk/pCars/3.png

ElCid4300
02-04-2017, 21:46
Haha yes you will spend more time tweaking than playing on a PC.

Have you gone through all of the settings and made sure you have maxed as many as you can whilst still maintaining around 60FPS? I dont think pCars has a built in FPS counter (correct me if im wrong) so you can use either NVidia ShadowPlay (now called share) within the GeForce Experience which you probably already have installed if you have the latest NVidia drivers plus its also a very good gameplay recording program or if you want something with a bit more info I personally use MSI Afterburner which can be downloaded here http://www.guru3d.com/index.php?ct=files&action=download&

Its mainly a graphics card overclocking tool but it has a very nice on screen overlay that can display all sorts of information about both your processor and graphics cards, like usage, temperature, FPS, frametime, VRAM usage, CPU usage, fan speeds etc etc.

If you go into the settings under monitoring and select the items you would like to see in the OSD then go to On-Screen-Display tab and set a specific button to turn it on and off whilst in game. This means you can tinker with all of your settings whilst in game and monitor the effect it has on your FPS. You might also want to read up on what Frametime is as that is also very important but coming from a PS4 you possibly havent heard about it?

As a starting point I on settings I would suggest;

Resolution: 3840x2160@60hz
Vsync - On
Render Ahead Frames - 2
Texture - High
AA - off (might cause shimmering on some straight edges off but its quite hard on the system with it on)
FXAA - off (causes a soft almost blurry look to the game)
SMAA - Off (same as above)

The others would probably need to be around the medium mark to ensure you can push decent fps @ 4k but it gives you a good starting point.

Enjoy :)

http://personal.chandlerit.co.uk/pCars/1.png

http://personal.chandlerit.co.uk/pCars/2.png

http://personal.chandlerit.co.uk/pCars/3.png

Hey there, been having some fun with the new PC. Everything seems to be finally stable and working ok, fingers crossed! I obviously have a ton to learn, but I am poking around and learning as I go. I am just happy that I can play without issues at the moment. Everything seems clearer and smoother than on the PS4, and that's with everything turned up almost to the max, quite happy. The only thing I notice is say I go through a quick esse (left/right turn) the picture seems almost "choppy" , but I think that might be related to the TV, although I don't really know lol.

Just wanted to say a BIG thank you again to you for all the help, it's much appreciated.

F1aw1ess
02-04-2017, 21:57
That choppiness is exactly what getting your settings right will eliminate, have fun tinkering ��

bradleyland
03-04-2017, 00:24
Not sure what kind of TV you have, but many have a setting specifically for gaming that will eliminate input lag, and turn off processing. A lot of it is personal preference when watching TV/movies, but for gaming, you really want all that stuff turned off. Things like "motion smoothing" can make your game look funky.

Look for a "game mode" setting in your TV's manual. Most manufacturers make the manual available for download as a PDF on their website, so you can even use search within the PDF to find it quick :)

ElCid4300
03-04-2017, 00:43
The TV that I have does in fact have a game mode and I already have it on my friend. Thank you for the input. Now I have my eye on an Acer 43 inch 4k monitor.

I think I am in trouble!