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View Full Version : Found out about the camber problem with pCars... haven't played since



guybo
18-04-2017, 09:48
For a while I really liked pCars- the AI is the best among sims out there. But once I read about the issues with camber (less camber=more grip and 0 camber seems to be the fastest setup in all cars) I lost interest. How can a sim racing platform dev team miss such a fundamental flaw in the game's physics? I tried to over-look it and just play anyway but this has taken all the wind from my sails.

Mahjik
18-04-2017, 12:53
To be honest, every racing title out there today has "flaws" which can be exploited. For instance, in all of the older isiMotor engine games (rFactor, GTR, etc) your best setup is the lowest the car allows regardless of scrapping since it doesn't cause damage or slow the cars. You can also run full braking pressure and lock up ever turn as it doesn't wear or heat the tires more... I could go on....

What I'm getting at is enjoy the sims for what they are... If you are competing, then yes you will have to use the exploits as someone else will. However, the issue you mentioned really has no bearing on enjoying offline/AI racing.

guybo
18-04-2017, 13:13
Yeah, that's true. I've also found a lot of AI strength balance issues. I have to work up a track to figure out if the AI is insanely fast on this track or insanely slow. There was one offline race I did where the only way to get my times even close to how slow the AI was was to use street tires and 100% difficulty because the AI got out of corners like they were in mud. There are some races I do where even if I turn the AI way down they have magical acceleration.

On some tracks the AI is SO GOOD it's like racing online with a group that know how to race (which is rarity!)

hkraft300
18-04-2017, 13:37
0 camber exploit may get you a banger qualifying lap or TT. But there's problems with it and the advantages of that exploit disappear in an endurance race where tyre life becomes a factor.

Mahjik
18-04-2017, 13:47
Yeah, that's true. I've also found a lot of AI strength balance issues. I have to work up a track to figure out if the AI is insanely fast on this track or insanely slow. There was one offline race I did where the only way to get my times even close to how slow the AI was was to use street tires and 100% difficulty because the AI got out of corners like they were in mud. There are some races I do where even if I turn the AI way down they have magical acceleration.

On some tracks the AI is SO GOOD it's like racing online with a group that know how to race (which is rarity!)

To be honest, this is somewhat realistic in a different way... In racing disciplines outside of F1, there are tracks where car/driver combinations do well and where they don't do well. I get it that in some cases, the AI is just slow at some tracks but I always tune the AI to be competitive at a track I know really well. So what happens is that I'm not that competitive with the AI at a track I don't know well (which is what I would expect).

Zpectre87
18-04-2017, 14:41
To be honest, this is somewhat realistic in a different way... In racing disciplines outside of F1, there are tracks where car/driver combinations do well and where they don't do well. I get it that in some cases, the AI is just slow at some tracks but I always tune the AI to be competitive at a track I know really well. So what happens is that I'm not that competitive with the AI at a track I don't know well (which is what I would expect).

At Imola my M3 had zero traction out of Tosa, the Ginettas magically had the edge there.

Too bad the Ginetta is gutless on the straight. :D

DECATUR PLAYA
18-04-2017, 19:30
0 camber exploit may get you a banger qualifying lap or TT. But there's problems with it and the advantages of that exploit disappear in an endurance race where tyre life becomes a factor.

^Great point

redrick
24-08-2017, 09:33
0 camber exploit may get you a banger qualifying lap or TT. But there's problems with it and the advantages of that exploit disappear in an endurance race where tyre life becomes a factor.

That makes sense even if the game doesn't. & I find it hard to believe this is something all the king's horses and all the king's men couldn't fix. But more to the point, how DO you set camber? Just leave it at the default?

Regards, -Rick

hkraft300
24-08-2017, 11:31
... But more to the point, how DO you set camber? Just leave it at the default?


By feel. I'll increase the camber higher* from default by 0.5 steps and feel for more mid-corner stability.
Am I finding more stability if I throw the car rough into a corner? Yes - increase. No - Is it hurting my braking? Yes - decrease. No - is it hurting tyre wear?

That's all after I've sorted out suspension, Aero, gears etc.
If you find you can't go up on front camber but want more turn-in/entry response, you can try a bit of rear toe out (-0.2 to -0.3).

Edit:
* in magnitude, so more camber angle.

PS I'm talking about in-game. IRL there are much more things to consider. The methods may be different. You'd have to ask a real racer like Mahjik to get a better insight.

First question you need to ask is: why are you adjusting camber? What is the problem and what are the potential solutions?

blinkngone
31-08-2017, 02:03
Games have flaws. I am sorry that out of 12,500 possible car and track combinations in this game you couldn't find any that you enjoyed enough to play it. I don't know what platform you are on but on PC you can find car/track combinations where some camber actually helps you make good times, at least in TT.