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mmaruda
19-04-2017, 21:02
Hi all, I have seen some promotional material about features in CARS2 and it got me quite excited, especially the online aspect looked interesting. However, while it all seems great, I have some thoughts about how this will reflect on the so called 'wide audience' aka the casuals.

CARS1 and Assetto as well paved the way for simracing on consoles and managed to attract a lot of people who have not been simracers before. And obviously that caused trouble, from people not understanding how to race, to people bashing the controls and all sorts of other drama. Realism is one thing, but a the "game aspect" is also very important.

So as far as I understand CARS2 is going to have a ranking system to keep good drivers clear from crash-kiddies. That is great, but I fear this will cause problems for new guys, if the game does not have some sort of feature to teach them how to drive in a safe manner. Because poor drivers will be matched with toxic drivers and this will only discourage them.

So numero uno is tutorials. GTR2 had them, Richard Burns Rally had them, and if this online esports thing is to have a large and healthy playerbase, CARS2 also needs them. So that the 'casuals' have something in there to help them stop being 'casuals' in the bad sense of the word. Ideally these should be interactive - learning by doing. Stuff like how to go into a corner, how to overtake, flag rules, when it's safe to make a move and when you should back off, and also something covering how to learn a track without that lame green line.

Number two would be good gamepad support. The game should be fully playable and enjoyable for those who don't have a wheel or are not sure they want one. No weird stability assists, no long hours spent finetuning deadzones. Just like that, out of the box, someone with a pad should be able to enjoy the game in every aspect. They will buy wheels eventually, if they like the experience on pad.

Last but not least is singleplayer for those who are not after online competition. That means AI. I think it's safe to say that the career will be good, since CARS 1 already has that. I am enjoying it very much and I have actually noticed some good things about the AI - they do fight the player and each other on the track, some are faster some are slower, they sometimes make mistakes and they do make it hard to overtake. It would actually be pretty brilliant, had it not been for the occasional rampage the go on. It seem they just are unable to back off, when they should. Anyway, this will probably be the most tricky part to do, no racing sim is perfect in this regard. However, one thing I think would help a lot with the frustration of sometimes being shunned off track by AI after like 20 laps, would be a rewind feature. Yeah, I know, sounds like heresy, but it's not like it's mandatory and in some situations, it would be better to have such a thing then restart the race.

So, three things to alleviate the human factor and maybe accommodate those who just want a new cool looking non-acrade car game.

dault3883
19-04-2017, 21:32
Hi all, I have seen some promotional material about features in CARS2 and it got me quite excited, especially the online aspect looked interesting. However, while it all seems great, I have some thoughts about how this will reflect on the so called 'wide audience' aka the casuals.

CARS1 and Assetto as well paved the way for simracing on consoles and managed to attract a lot of people who have not been simracers before. And obviously that caused trouble, from people not understanding how to race, to people bashing the controls and all sorts of other drama. Realism is one thing, but a the "game aspect" is also very important.

So as far as I understand CARS2 is going to have a ranking system to keep good drivers clear from crash-kiddies. That is great, but I fear this will cause problems for new guys, if the game does not have some sort of feature to teach them how to drive in a safe manner. Because poor drivers will be matched with toxic drivers and this will only discourage them.

So numero uno is tutorials. GTR2 had them, Richard Burns Rally had them, and if this online esports thing is to have a large and healthy playerbase, CARS2 also needs them. So that the 'casuals' have something in there to help them stop being 'casuals' in the bad sense of the word. Ideally these should be interactive - learning by doing. Stuff like how to go into a corner, how to overtake, flag rules, when it's safe to make a move and when you should back off, and also something covering how to learn a track without that lame green line.

Number two would be good gamepad support. The game should be fully playable and enjoyable for those who don't have a wheel or are not sure they want one. No weird stability assists, no long hours spent finetuning deadzones. Just like that, out of the box, someone with a pad should be able to enjoy the game in every aspect. They will buy wheels eventually, if they like the experience on pad.

Last but not least is singleplayer for those who are not after online competition. That means AI. I think it's safe to say that the career will be good, since CARS 1 already has that. I am enjoying it very much and I have actually noticed some good things about the AI - they do fight the player and each other on the track, some are faster some are slower, they sometimes make mistakes and they do make it hard to overtake. It would actually be pretty brilliant, had it not been for the occasional rampage the go on. It seem they just are unable to back off, when they should. Anyway, this will probably be the most tricky part to do, no racing sim is perfect in this regard. However, one thing I think would help a lot with the frustration of sometimes being shunned off track by AI after like 20 laps, would be a rewind feature. Yeah, I know, sounds like heresy, but it's not like it's mandatory and in some situations, it would be better to have such a thing then restart the race.

So, three things to alleviate the human factor and maybe accommodate those who just want a new cool looking non-acrade car game.

i totally agree with you except for one point i like the Green Preferred line

mmaruda
19-04-2017, 22:55
Well for me the line teaches the bad habit of paying attention to the line instead of corner markers and other objects acting as cues for braking, so if you get used to the line too much, it's difficult to find a good line without it. I'm not saying get rid of it, just teach people how to find the best line and speed around the corners without it.

dault3883
19-04-2017, 23:01
Well for me the line teaches the bad habit of paying attention to the line instead of corner markers and other objects acting as cues for braking, so if you get used to the line too much, it's difficult to find a good line without it. I'm not saying get rid of it, just teach people how to find the best line and speed around the corners without it.

i can agree with that but then again sometimes i even with the line on sometimes im so focused i dont even notice the line i just kind of ignore it

Roger Prynne
19-04-2017, 23:07
i can agree with that but then again sometimes i even with the line on sometimes im so focused i dont even notice the line i just kind of ignore it

Then why have it on at all :confused:

dault3883
19-04-2017, 23:10
Then why have it on at all :confused:

because i dont care if its on or not it doesnt bother me one way or another and it does help me when on a new track

hkraft300
20-04-2017, 00:59
I recommend not having the line. The first few laps is more tricky, but with the map hud on, it forces you to use your memory in better ways.
I think it's related that a study proved people reliant on GPS navigation take longer to learn a route than those using a map or landmarks.
Also the driving line is hideous.

DECATUR PLAYA
20-04-2017, 04:38
I recommend not having the line. The first few laps is more tricky, but with the map hud on, it forces you to use your memory in better ways.
I think it's related that a study proved people reliant on GPS navigation take longer to learn a route than those using a map or landmarks.
Also the driving line is hideous.

The line is hideous but I use my line. Originally I used it to help with new tracks an unfamiliar locations but then I found that the line is dynamic like the weather so now I use it to help with tuning. The line does not move but the braking zones, mid turn throttle points, and corner exit throttle points seem to change with cars abilities as you tune. Maybe I'm seeing things and I could be wrong but I believe it bad advice to tell a new guy not to use his driving line it can help him or her so much with cornering and learning new tracks. The driving line is a lot like the assist in PCARS it just works differently than other racing games and if you don't use it this is impossible to understand.

Back on subject as this thread is not about the driving line guys. It's about the game appealing to a wider audience. You should read up on the Pcars academy I think this feature should really help expand the audience if implemented correctly. I think for the sim crowd to expand that more guys have to learn tuning and race craft as this is what puts drivers directly into what real race teams go thru weekly. For the average guy to keep playing he or she has to be competitive and to be competitive in sim racing you have to tune and you have to know how to race. I think the pcars academy will go a long way towards this.

As far as single player goes I'm not a single player guy but what little bit I have done the A.I. seems to be ultra-competitive which I like depending on what skill level you put them. I think SMS should leave them that way because there is nothing worst than getting fast on racing game and then racing A.I. that can't keep up. A lot of guys get mad about getting driven off the track but they should follow the model of real race car drivers. If you can't keep a guy off of your rear bumper you should probably get out of his way because in real life if you continue to block a faster guy eventually he or she is going to drive you off the track.

From what Pcars has shown so far it really looks like this game will appeal to a very wide audience and remember guys this forum has helped a lot of people myself included. A strong community will also help a lot of guys transition to sim racing as well.

honespc
20-04-2017, 05:15
It's very important to turn off the line. Even for newbies

DECATUR PLAYA
20-04-2017, 05:32
It's very important to turn off the line. Even for newbies

That's your opinion and the opinion of most but I ran a public room nightly for the first 8 months after Pcars came out and I met a lot of these newbies that you guys speak of and these guys were struggling really bad. A lot of these guys just quit in frustration thinking Pcars was the worst game they ever played and I have seen the line save a lot of guys. Why did SMS put it in the game maybe just for kicks. I'm not saying that it is the optimal way to race and I normally keep my racing line opinion to myself as it is not popular here but in a thread that talks about the game appealing to a wider audience I couldn't.

honespc
20-04-2017, 05:35
People leaving in frustration might not be game's fault at all

DECATUR PLAYA
20-04-2017, 05:56
People leaving in frustration might not be game's fault at all

Game designed to make money. People leaving in frustration may not be good for bottom line.

honespc
20-04-2017, 06:08
Those who enjoy the game and want to improve over time are the ones we should focus on and try helping out as much as we can.

People leaving in frustration day one or the week after release aren't worth either devs effort or community help time. The lazy ain't worth anyone's time. Project Cars is a good game that requieres effort regardless it also tries to obviously cater a wider audience.

breyzipp
20-04-2017, 06:08
The driving line is useful if you are in a new car and/or on a new track. I am currently speeding through the PCARS1 career mode to have it finished before PCARS2 gets released and therefore I drive the shortest amount of laps and I skip practicing (and sometimes qualifying) completely. So I tend to jump in and out different car/track combinations a lot and I don't even bother tuning the cars.

It does help if you are not familiar with a car and only spend a short amount of time in it. However I fully realize the driving line certainly is not the optimal cornering line.

Also without the driving line I often do mistakes on national circuits thinking I'm on the GP circuit which results in smashing into a corner on the national circuit where the GP circuit would continue in a straight line. :D Oulton Island vs Oulton International comes to mind, without that driving line it's often a brutal crash before I go "ooh yeah, it's the shorter version xD"

Zpectre87
20-04-2017, 06:29
I don't like using the driving line, but it can be useful. Becoming overly dependent on it is not a big problem because your visual memory should help you even after you turn the line off.

DECATUR PLAYA
20-04-2017, 06:35
Those who enjoy the game and want to improve over time are the ones we should focus on and try helping out as much as we can.

People leaving in frustration day one or the week after release aren't worth either devs effort or community help time. The lazy ain't worth anyone's time. Project Cars is a good game that requieres effort regardless it also tries to obviously cater a wider audience.

To a certain degree I agree with you but I think it's a major difference between lazy and struggling. Anything that helps a struggling driver is good. I don't support lazy and I'm glad this isn't a game for the lazy because it's depth is what gives it such a long life span. With that said Pcars is hard for a racing enthusiasts try to imagine what it's like for a guy who just wants to jump in the car and go fast. If that guy or girl wants to put in the work they shouldn't be left out of the party.

DECATUR PLAYA
20-04-2017, 06:39
The topic guys the topic. Expanding the audience. We have had these debates on the driving line but that's not the topic of this thread. I think this topic is worth discussing not the driving line.

Pisshead30
20-04-2017, 06:49
I recommend not having the line. The first few laps is more tricky, but with the map hud on, it forces you to use your memory in better ways.
I think it's related that a study proved people reliant on GPS navigation take longer to learn a route than those using a map or landmarks.
Also the driving line is hideous.

I find it more fun turning the line and the map off plus its less distractions on screen

Konan
20-04-2017, 06:52
The topic guys the topic. Expanding the audience. We have had these debates on the driving line but that's not the topic of this thread. I think this topic is worth discussing not the driving line.

^ this expresses exactly what i was thinking...so move on please guys...

Konan
20-04-2017, 06:52
The topic guys the topic. Expanding the audience. We have had these debates on the driving line but that's not the topic of this thread. I think this topic is worth discussing not the driving line.

^ this expresses exactly what i was thinking...so move on please guys...

DECATUR PLAYA
20-04-2017, 08:04
It was one thing I forgot to respond to from the original post and that was gamepad support. I think the UI has been changed in a major way or at least I hope it has. The UI was a major weakness in PCARS 1 and I think a redo in this area would be really good. How many post have you seen here where a guy says hey how do you see the rest of your setup I can only see my tires and brakes. For me outside of being rather boring the UI didn't bother me much because I would rather have the deep sophisticated game that we have versus having a fancy interface and a lackluster game. However I think that the UI can go a long way to helping the game be a game. It can go a long way towards making the game fun.

As far as controller play is concerned I'm a controller player and the design for the xbox controller is actually quite good what could make it better is this. A better starting place or default controls for the controller which SMS has already said that it has reworked. A better UI towards finding controller options and tuning controller options. Lastly I think that what SMS has said about driving the car past its grip limits will also help controller users. On PCARS 1 it was normally all or none when driving close to your grip limits. Not being able to get the car sideways in given situations was especially frustrating for lots of us controller users. Once again SMS has already stated that this has been addressed.

hkraft300
20-04-2017, 08:31
Struggling and frustrated players giving up on the game is a result of inexperienced drivers jumping straight into an LMP1, GT3 or FA/FB and expecting to be competitive, not knowing the track or the car, or tweak their wheel or gamepad settings. I still, after countless hours of practice and tuning, often struggle to keep a fast car on its limits. Still a lot to learn. Having had the experience in racing games, even on rf1, I thought I had some skills but got a rude awakening when I first turned on pc1.
Tuning isn't a critical skill to be competitive, but for an average driver like myself with minimal talent, it's a tool to maximise my chances of a good finish. I've raced guys in default setup lapping 5 seconds faster than me with a tuned car.
I warn against the driving line because not only does it hinder learning a track, it's not the optimal/fastest racing line. It can also hide potential markers that are on the road such as bumps. With the coming of LT3, it may even hide puddles and wet patches that might throw you out.
Gamepad presets have been improved for pc2 and that's great news: it should encourage some to get a wheel to really experience a sim at its fullest.
Things like LT3 will certainly throw a spanner at newbies to this genre/title.

DECATUR PLAYA
20-04-2017, 08:54
Struggling and frustrated players giving up on the game is a result of inexperienced drivers jumping straight into an LMP1, GT3 or FA/FB and expecting to be competitive, not knowing the track or the car, or tweak their wheel or gamepad settings. I still, after countless hours of practice and tuning, often struggle to keep a fast car on its limits. Still a lot to learn. Having had the experience in racing games, even on rf1, I thought I had some skills but got a rude awakening when I first turned on pc1.
Tuning isn't a critical skill to be competitive, but for an average driver like myself with minimal talent, it's a tool to maximise my chances of a good finish. I've raced guys in default setup lapping 5 seconds faster than me with a tuned car.
I warn against the driving line because not only does it hinder learning a track, it's not the optimal/fastest racing line. It can also hide potential markers that are on the road such as bumps. With the coming of LT3, it may even hide puddles and wet patches that might throw you out.
Gamepad presets have been improved for pc2 and that's great news: it should encourage some to get a wheel to really experience a sim at its fullest.
Things like LT3 will certainly throw a spanner at newbies to this genre/title.

Tuning is not critical to skill agreed. Tuning breeds practice. Practice breeds skill.

hkraft300
20-04-2017, 09:12
Tuning is not critical to skill agreed. Tuning breeds practice. Practice breeds skill.

That's essentially how I got better at pc1. Watch, read, research, practice, practice, practice.
What I see a lot in MP lobbies is, although someone is clean and actually holding it together, racing well and relatively quick: they struggle to defend. I'll take an alternate line, sneak past and they're left playing catch up.
But a sim is A LOT to take in. Even on console it's tricky for a noob to get their controller, car and game settings right, before they even get out to the track. So many settings. For many it's overwhelming. For that, a streamlined UI is all the more difficult but welcome. There are so many options that it'll get buried in screen after screen. For those of us that like to tweak and tinker, tune and what not, we find our way however inconvenient.
I see pc2 being more accessible to a newcomer to the genre having expanded on pc1 and ironed out its shortcomings. It's still going to be bloody complicated. Pick up and play it certainly is not, and shouldn't try to be.

Zpectre87
20-04-2017, 09:41
The controller support in the first pCARS was pretty good, at least after all the patches. It was quite possible to drive fast, and it took me some time to beat my controller times with my wheel.

The problem is that it required a lot of fine tuning to get it right. This should not be a problem to the enthusiast, but enthusiasts are more likely to use wheels, which require even deeper fine tuning. And the "out of the box" experience in pCARS was bad for wheel users, too.

If you release a game without easy controller setup, you risk the same failure of Assetto Corsa on consoles. Now, I consider Assetto Corsa a bad game for various reasons, but the main reason why it failed on console was the poor controller support. It came to the Xbox One and the PS4 under the pretense of being the simulator to end all simulators, then people pick it up and they can't keep the car on the track, while it's much easier for them in Forza and GT. And, no, it's not because of Assetto Corsa being more "realistic"... pCARS is more realistic than those two games and controls just fine with a controller, but, again, it requires fine tuning.

The standard setup should be a good one and the custom setups should be for people who want that extra edge. This also applies to car setups. The biggest problem with the various games the SMS staff has been involved in has always been that many cars are nowhere near their full potential out of the box. Standard setups are hit or miss: some cars drive great, others are horrible. M1 for example, one of the best cars I've ever driven in any sim when tuned to my liking, but the standard setup is extremely loose. This sort of inconsistency shouldn't happen, and it shouldn't be the community's role to provide a good base setup for a car.

And hkraft is spot on, a simulator requires much investment. My problem has always been that I want to watch and play a little bit of everything, but with simulators this is simply not possible. I doubt anyone has mastered all the various mods that exist for rFactor, for example, or even the cars in pCARS which seem few until you take up the task of trying to be good in all of them. :D

OddTimer
20-04-2017, 10:17
Good, no Great, pad support is a must and it can make or brake pcars2...On Ps4 and xbox One (especially the one!) controller support was pretty bad...many Forza players gave PCars 1 a try when it came out, but gave up as the game's controller was broken...what I find funny about pcars2 and the new controller story is that SMS says the controller has been much improved this time around. Ian has said that and there is a presentation by Andy Tutor on YouTube where says it as well, but all the recent videos showing gameplay on pad seem pretty poor...VVV has a couple of videos on his channel and the game seems to be 'undrivable', especially on high speed corners....things like that keep me from jumping on the hype train, even if the game has a lot of features that get me excited...I know there's another 4 months of development and polishing ahead (assuming the game comes out in Sept.) so I will wait and see....

mmaruda
20-04-2017, 11:07
About the controller, last Forza I played was Forza 4, it had some driving model choices. I started out with the most realistic one and quickly found it a bit too twitchy, so I took it down a notch and all the characteristics of a believable handling model were still there, but the car seemed less erratic to control. I think I finally switched to most difficult setting, but I think this was kind of an elegant solution. One important thing to note is that in neither of the console big car game titles, did I have to tune my controller settings - that is what console players are used to. Some games have the options to set axis sensitivity, but I have never seen anyone touch this, apart for competitive Gears of War players.

Now for a full blown sim, simplifying the handling for controller user is probably not be an acceptable solution, but if it just added some dampening of the controls, that could work. Assetto Corsa takes a different route - I'm sure it wasn't there in the beginning, but now, when you use the pad, the game has some sort of stability assist no matter what you set in the options, and this makes drifting with a controller utter rubbish. I used to drift in Assetto with a pad, when I felt like just fooling around and relaxing, without having to get my wheel out and now it's not an option any more. So however SMS tackle this, it should be a priority to have tight handling on the controller at least for the console versions.

Mahjik
20-04-2017, 13:24
I think the UI has been changed in a major way or at least I hope it has.

Completely new UI...


So however SMS tackle this, it should be a priority to have tight handling on the controller at least for the console versions.

If you look at some of the posts on GTP, SMS has already commented on the work they have done around controllers. The "out of the box" experience will be much improved.

hkraft300
20-04-2017, 14:31
Forza and GT made no difference if you tried to tweak the gamepad, but pcars can be as direct as a wheel, or as numb as Forza 5. Lots of options and little guidance to what it does. Overwhelming, and the presets for the 3 modes aren't great (why is the mode at the bottom of the page, not the top?!).
It's only after I got a wheel I realised mode 3 with sensitivity 50 is 1:1. I praise SMS for the directness and accuracy of gamepad control, but I had the patience to tweak it.
If they sort out the presets it'll be greatly accommodating to the uninitiated.
Also I'm interested to see what they do with default setups. In pc1 some cars are incredibly difficult with a pad (they're difficult on default setup with a wheel too). Some are super understeery, some are really loose (M1 as mentioned and the Lotus 78). Some have a great balance. Also there were several updates to tyre behaviour which made some cars more driveable, also the buggy release was a major downer. Significant updates to tyre model I think should be left to the next iteration. The initial release was unfinished and SMS did a great job to iron out almost all the issues in the first 12-13 months. By then a few racers may have given up on the game, but I'm confident pc2 won't have the same problems, hence no announcement on the release date. They have time on their hands and better resources to get it right on release.

DECATUR PLAYA
20-04-2017, 15:08
Completely new UI...



If you look at some of the posts on GTP, SMS has already commented on the work they have done around controllers. The "out of the box" experience will be much improved.

Mahjik is the Project Cars Academy like a big secret or something. It's like a secret that everybody knows about but nobody talks about. When I read it the first time it felt really good to know this is coming to the game. They announced this like 2 years ago and no one talks about it. I don't care what they add to this game the Project Cars Academy will be the biggest and best feature added and nobody talks about it. Why. If implemented correctly it will solve most of the problems we are talking about here. You guys got Jussi working on it huh and it's all top secret.

This is why learning to tune is so important because you have to learn to customize the game for yourself. This is why it's important to have a fun UI that leads you to tinker with the game. It's important for the newbies to understand that in your hands that you have a game that you can play for years not a game that your going to play for 6 months and then take to a local game stop and trade it in.

hkraft300
20-04-2017, 15:10
Mahjik is the Project Cars Academy like a big secret or something. It's like a secret that everybody knows about but nobody talks about. When I read it the first time it felt really good to know this is coming to the game. They announced this like 2 years ago and no one talks about it. I don't care what they add to this game the Project Cars Academy will be the biggest and best feature added and nobody talks about it. Why. If implemented correctly it will solve most of the problems we are talking about here. You guys got Jussi working on it huh and it's all top secret.

This is why learning to tune is so important because you have to learn to customize the game for yourself. This is why it's important to have a fun UI that leads you to tinker with the game. It's important for the newbies to understand that in your hands that you have a game that you can play for years not a game that your going to play for 6 months and then take to a local game stop and trade it in.

News to me!
GT academy who?

Edit: tuning does add a big layer to this game. Just consider the different Aero behaviour of some cars: DW12 and FRenault 3.5 (both Dallara cars!) Vs the Formula A/B. Sauber C9 and BMW LMR vs other LMP cars. Mercedes vs McLaren GT1. The hybrid systems of the LMP1H cars. Just a pressure tweak makes some cars so much faster and driveable compared to default! Nerdgasmic.

DECATUR PLAYA
20-04-2017, 15:19
News to me!
GT academy who?

Kraft I edited that last post.

DECATUR PLAYA
20-04-2017, 15:22
It seems to be a forgotten feature but it's one that I'm looking forward to.

hkraft300
20-04-2017, 15:26
Kraft I edited that last post.

So did I!

Mahjik
20-04-2017, 15:27
Mahjik is the Project Cars Academy like a big secret or something.

I don't have any details around an Academy.

DECATUR PLAYA
20-04-2017, 15:34
I don't have any details around an Academy.

Gotcha. Let's see how this thread unfolds. The academy was announced.

RacingAtHome
20-04-2017, 15:48
Gotcha. Let's see how this thread unfolds. The academy was announced.

Any sources? I have no idea about one either.

DECATUR PLAYA
20-04-2017, 16:54
Any sources? I have no idea about one either.

I don't know how to pull that stuff and link it here but when they launched info for the crowd source funding for Pcars 2 and everybody got in an uproar it was listed on their main page. I will look it up and come back because I think it's still there but nobody looks there for information.

DECATUR PLAYA
20-04-2017, 17:59
I don't know how to pull that stuff and link it here but when they launched info for the crowd source funding for Pcars 2 and everybody got in an uproar it was listed on their main page. I will look it up and come back because I think it's still there but nobody looks there for information.

Google Project Cars Academy and go down 2 or 3 links to a article by Car Throttle called "Why you need to start getting super excited for Pcars 2" it mentions it there. March 23 2016. I can't find it right now but the information they talk about was listed on PCARS main page for Pcars 2.

gregc
20-04-2017, 18:16
I think it was mentioned in the original "things we aim to include" type piece. That was never a feature list, more of a wishlist, and several things that were listed there didn't make the cut. Given that it's not on the feature list that's there now, it looks like this was one of them.

DECATUR PLAYA
20-04-2017, 21:13
I think it was mentioned in the original "things we aim to include" type piece. That was never a feature list, more of a wishlist, and several things that were listed there didn't make the cut. Given that it's not on the feature list that's there now, it looks like this was one of them.

Shame. It would have been a great feature.

Mad Al
20-04-2017, 21:21
Good, no Great, pad support is a must and it can make or brake pcars2...On Ps4 and xbox One (especially the one!) controller support was pretty bad...many Forza players gave PCars 1 a try when it came out, but gave up as the game's controller was broken...what I find funny about pcars2 and the new controller story is that SMS says the controller has been much improved this time around. Ian has said that and there is a presentation by Andy Tutor on YouTube where says it as well, but all the recent videos showing gameplay on pad seem pretty poor...VVV has a couple of videos on his channel and the game seems to be 'undrivable', especially on high speed corners....things like that keep me from jumping on the hype train, even if the game has a lot of features that get me excited...I know there's another 4 months of development and polishing ahead (assuming the game comes out in Sept.) so I will wait and see....

The pad is fine, I use a 360 controller which is supposed to be worse than the one controller.. but I can post pretty competitive (and consistent) lap times on a controller without spending half my life making weird fish tailing moves as per the VVV videos.
It's a shame I can't post the last three laps from a 40 minute test session I did for an MP test race a while back.... it shows the pad control in a much better light (unfortunately if for no other reason than it's in an unannounced car)

The only cars I've had issues with, have also been a handful with a wheel.. and this time around I'm basically able to use the pad defaults (and changes make sense, too)

Don't forget the original release on the One actually had a bug in the controller code.. which really didn't help things... and nor did the choice for the default on any platform (and making it not very obvious that mode 2 was your friend!)

snipeme77
20-04-2017, 23:00
The pad is fine, I use a 360 controller which is supposed to be worse than the one controller.. but I can post pretty competitive (and consistent) lap times on a controller without spending half my life making weird fish tailing moves as per the VVV videos.
It's a shame I can't post the last three laps from a 40 minute test session I did for an MP test race a while back.... it shows the pad control in a much better light (unfortunately if for no other reason than it's in an unannounced car)

The only cars I've had issues with, have also been a handful with a wheel.. and this time around I'm basically able to use the pad defaults (and changes make sense, too)

Don't forget the original release on the One actually had a bug in the controller code.. which really didn't help things... and nor did the choice for the default on any platform (and making it not very obvious that mode 2 was your friend!)

I didn't have any luck with mode 2 in pcars 1 to be honest. But again, I'm glad to hear there is at least some improvements. As I said in the tread I started, no doubt Team VVV played a older build that what you as a beta tester are getting to work with now.

Bliman
20-04-2017, 23:57
I find Project Cars 2 very interesting but I fear for the controls with the controller.
I can also post competitive times with the controller with Project Cars, the problem for me is that the controls are so sensitive that you don't feel one with the car. I know it's a whole other game but to give you a example the original colin mcrae game on the Playstation has this as many others. You just connect with the car and from then out you just attack the circuit or stage and you can follow your instinct.
That to me is a great downside for Project Cars because you never feel 100% in control with the controller no matter how much you practice.

poirqc
21-04-2017, 02:16
No "in your face" bugs.
Finely tuned controller(Wheels and pads)
Good, out of the box, experience.



Speaking of witch, how's QA going?

Thanks,

DECATUR PLAYA
21-04-2017, 05:57
No "in your face" bugs.
Finely tuned controller(Wheels and pads)
Good, out of the box, experience.



Speaking of witch, how's QA going?

Thanks,

^ Good point. How is QA going.

GenBrien
21-04-2017, 07:06
if people would stop driving doing TAP TAP they would enjoy racing sims more.....

hkraft300
21-04-2017, 08:17
if people would stop driving doing TAP TAP they would enjoy racing sims more.....

Oh snap.

OddTimer
21-04-2017, 09:46
The pad is fine, I use a 360 controller which is supposed to be worse than the one controller.. but I can post pretty competitive (and consistent) lap times on a controller without spending half my life making weird fish tailing moves as per the VVV videos.
It's a shame I can't post the last three laps from a 40 minute test session I did for an MP test race a while back.... it shows the pad control in a much better light (unfortunately if for no other reason than it's in an unannounced car)

The only cars I've had issues with, have also been a handful with a wheel.. and this time around I'm basically able to use the pad defaults (and changes make sense, too)

Don't forget the original release on the One actually had a bug in the controller code.. which really didn't help things... and nor did the choice for the default on any platform (and making it not very obvious that mode 2 was your friend!)

that sounds promising, thanks for the input! still about the controller...it is not only about being fast, but it is about having the confidence it will respond accordingly to the player's input....kinda it needs to feel natural for someone that normally plays with a pad.

OddTimer
21-04-2017, 09:49
if people would stop driving doing TAP TAP they would enjoy racing sims more.....

yeah....spend two years making a game, release it and then tell customers that they have been playing past games 'wrongly' and they need to adapt to a new control system which does not allow them to play the game they want to = comercial success....nah..

hkraft300
21-04-2017, 11:29
if people would stop driving doing TAP TAP they would enjoy racing sims more.....


yeah....spend two years making a game, release it and then tell customers that they have been playing past games 'wrongly' and they need to adapt to a new control system ... = comercial success....nah..

He's not wrong.
And the customer isn't always right.
pc1 has been a commercial success.
Pc2 will appeal to a wider audience. Core fan base is repeat business.
I wouldn't worry too much about it. I think pc2 will be OK :o

snipeme77
21-04-2017, 14:20
if people would stop driving doing TAP TAP they would enjoy racing sims more.....

Although I agree with you, not everyone has the gear to do smooth steering or the time to relearn how to drive like that.

Also note I got some control freaks and it made a big difference.

DECATUR PLAYA
21-04-2017, 15:10
if people would stop driving doing TAP TAP they would enjoy racing sims more.....

I think this where the controller issues come into focus. Guys who's methods produced good results think that controller worked just fine for Pcars 1. Guys who's methods produced bad results think that the controller was broken. Some of the fastest guys on the game use a controller this proves that there is nothing really wrong with controller functionality that's why this conversation is so complicated. I'm not going to knock a guys methods because it just leads to a bigger argument. I think Mr. Bell has stated that he is a tap tapper so I'm not going to knock that method. I just think if this discussion revolved around method and not controller functionality that this conversation would go a lot further towards solving the problem for those who are struggling.

On my old Nascar games I used a push the stick forward and drive around the top of the ring method. That method did not work for me with PCARS and I changed to a more smooth side to side method for PCARS. It took some time to learn to smooth out my inputs but I learned and it has produced awesome results. I still struggle with keeping the car centered in long sweeping turns but I found that my struggles in those turns are directly influenced by my inputs and not controller functionality.

There is no way for SMS to make a setting that works for everyone it is impossible. The only thing they can do is create enough options so that you can make the controller feel good for you. If guys are not willing to change the presets to something comfortable for them then that is totally on the player. Imagine being tall and sitting in the driver seat of a car you like and the seat is setup for a short person and saying im not buying this car because its setup for a short person and all you had to do is move the seat back.

dault3883
21-04-2017, 15:12
I think this where the controller issues come into focus. Guys who's methods produced good results think that controller worked just fine for Pcars 1. Guys who's methods produced bad results think that the controller was broken. Some of the fastest guys on the game use a controller this proves that there is nothing really wrong with controller functionality that's why this conversation is so complicated. I'm not going to knock a guys methods because it just leads to a bigger argument. I think Mr. Bell has stated that he is a tap tapper so I'm not going to knock that method. I just think if this discussion revolved around method and not controller functionality that's this conversation would go a lot further towards solving the problem for those who are struggling.

On my old Nascar games I used a push the stick forward and drive around the top of the ring method. That method did not work for me with PCARS and I changed to a more smooth side to side method for PCARS. It took some time to learn to smooth out my inputs but I learned and it has produced awesome results. I still struggle with keeping the car centered in long sweeping turns but I found that my struggles in those turns are directly influenced by my inputs and not controller functionality.

There is no way for SMS to make a setting that works for everyone it is impossible. The only thing they can do is create enough options so that you can make the controller feel good for you. If guys are not willing to change the presets to something comfortable for them then that is totally on the player. Imagine being tall and sitting in the driver seat of a car you like and the seat is setup for a short person and saying im not buying this car because its setup for a short person and all you had to do is move the seat back.

correct because EVERY single person has a different driving style no two people drive exactly the same just like no two people play the guitar the same way its like a finger print its unique

DECATUR PLAYA
21-04-2017, 15:17
Just wanted to add thats what the 3 presets are for under the controller tuning options. I cant remember which is which but one was for driving around the top of the ring. One was for the tap tappers. The last preset was for side to side steering.

DECATUR PLAYA
21-04-2017, 15:21
correct because EVERY single person has a different driving style no two people drive exactly the same just like no two people play the guitar the same way its like a finger print its unique

^ Exactly. Well said.

dault3883
21-04-2017, 15:24
^ Exactly. Well said.

well ill have to give credit where credit is due the guitar bit is from the movie Eddie and the cruisers 2 Eddie Lives LOL but it is a good analogy my driving style is a rare one i change the way i drive depending on what the car is willing to give me and then i push it to its limits and try not to go over the edge LOL

DECATUR PLAYA
21-04-2017, 15:52
well ill have to give credit where credit is due the guitar bit is from the movie Eddie and the cruisers 2 Eddie Lives LOL but it is a good analogy my driving style is a rare one i change the way i drive depending on what the car is willing to give me and then i push it to its limits and try not to go over the edge LOL

The guitar is a great analogy because no guitarist goes to the store buys a guitar and then walks out on stage and just starts playing it. They tune the guitar first to the way they like it then they got out and play. This again is why a fun interactive UI that leads to tinkering is necessary. Tuning is so important to the a player getting this game because before you ever tune a car on this game you will have to tune your input device wheel or controller before you start playing.

Secondly the whole idea of this being a sim is that sim racing requires precision. Precision braking. Precision steering. Precision throttle inputs. The whole idea of precision is that it is not easy. This is what s eperates Pcars from other games especially at the console level. I'm not a wheel user but I know PCARS and I have read the ordeals of many wheel users here on this forum and even on a wheel precision is not easy.

dault3883
21-04-2017, 16:03
The guitar is a great analogy because no guitarist goes to the store buys a guitar and then walks out on stage and just starts playing it. They tune the guitar first to the way they like it then they got out and play. This again is why a fun UI that leads to tinkering is necessary. Tuning is so important to the a player getting this game because before you ever tune a car on this game you will have to tune your input device wheel or controller before you start playing.

Secondly the whole idea of this being a sim is that sim racing requires precision. Precision braking. Precision steering. Precision throttle inputs. The whole idea of precision is that it is not easy. This is what s eperates Pcars from other games especially at the console level. I'm not a wheel user but I know PCARS and I have read the ordeals of many wheel users here on this forum and even on a wheel precision is not easy.

no its not its an absolute night mare i hate the force feedback jerking the wheel all over the place so have it turned way down and then the only way i got the wheel to turn right for me was having the assisted steering on cause other wise it feels to loose and snappy

DECATUR PLAYA
21-04-2017, 16:09
no its not its an absolute night mare i hate the force feedback jerking the wheel all over the place so have it turned way down and then the only way i got the wheel to turn right for me was having the assisted steering on cause other wise it feels to loose and snappy

If you put the force feedback to 100 on the xbox one controller the controller (expletive) jumps out of your hands and it will kill a set a batteries in like 3 hrs. I play around 50 force feedback.

dault3883
21-04-2017, 16:11
If you put the force feedback to 100 on the xbox one controller the controller (expletive) jumps out of your hands and it will kill a set a batteries in like 3 hrs. I play around 50 force feedback.

i tryed that and it was still horrible i had to put it down to 10% and with the steering assist just to tighten up the wheel i dont mind how tight it is under the high force feedback i dont like the jerking

DECATUR PLAYA
21-04-2017, 16:18
i tryed that and it was still horrible i had to put it down to 10% and with the steering assist just to tighten up the wheel i dont mind how tight it is under the high force feedback i dont like the jerking

It's been a fun conversation. Got to go to work.

Bliman
21-04-2017, 16:37
I am reluctant when I hear about finetuning the controller settings.
To me it is very important they nail the controls with only a few presets and that they explain what each does.
If not then for me it get's to confusing then you have to change the controller settings and the car set up and it get's confusing between the two.
The other race games I played you don't have to tweak the controls and most of the time everything feels fine.
The thing that can help if you have tutorials to let you feel what every controller setting does and also what everything in the car set up does.
They can look at flight sims where there are many tutorials that explain everything and let you feel the difference.
I also don't like there is no demo coming because controls are crucial in a race sim and you can only learn so much from a video.

dault3883
21-04-2017, 16:42
I am reluctant when I hear about finetuning the controller settings.
To me it is very important they nail the controls with only a few presets and that they explain what each does.
If not then for me it get's to confusing then you have to change the controller settings and the car set up and it get's confusing between the two.
The other race games I played you don't have to tweak the controls and most of the time everything feels fine.
The thing that can help if you have tutorials to let you feel what every controller setting does and also what everything in the car set up does.
They can look at flight sims where there are many tutorials that explain everything and let you feel the difference.
I also don't like there is no demo coming because controls are crucial in a race sim and you can only learn so much from a video.

i agree whole heatedly i got cars over a year ago and because i couldnt get the controls set up right at first i let it sit for a almost a year because i got so frustrated with trying to get my BRAND NEW G29 Wheel to work with it

GenBrien
21-04-2017, 18:19
if you were playing a high fidelity Flight Simulator (DCS/FSX/BMS) and you have to land a F-18 on a carrier, but only using full/no throttle and only full/no joystick deflection, would you blame the sim because you're always crashing or would you adapt?

Pcars is not NFS
I agree it needs to be easier for controller (I myself play only with a controller) but dont be surprised if you go only full steering/no steering, that the car on the edge of grip, is behaving not as expected....

snipeme77
21-04-2017, 18:34
I also don't like there is no demo coming because controls are crucial in a race sim and you can only learn so much from a video.

I'm with you here, I really want a demo...

DECATUR PLAYA
21-04-2017, 20:00
I am reluctant when I hear about finetuning the controller settings.
To me it is very important they nail the controls with only a few presets and that they explain what each does.
If not then for me it get's to confusing then you have to change the controller settings and the car set up and it get's confusing between the two.
The other race games I played you don't have to tweak the controls and most of the time everything feels fine.
The thing that can help if you have tutorials to let you feel what every controller setting does and also what everything in the car set up does.
They can look at flight sims where there are many tutorials that explain everything and let you feel the difference.
I also don't like there is no demo coming because controls are crucial in a race sim and you can only learn so much from a video.

I wish there was a beta or demo to but oh well.

As far as finding balance between controller settings and car setups. Driving a different car in PCARS should not affect your controller settings. This is huge because a lot of guys would change controller settings to match a given car. Once you find a sweet spot with controller settings you should not change them to match a car that's what the cars setup is for. Change the car not the settings or change the way you drive the car not the settings.

Example: I just did a community event about a month ago with the BMW 320 group 5 car at Zolder. I was really struggling with snap oversteer with the car. So I went and read some info on the car. It was a bunch of technical mumbo jumbo about the car and after 2 paragraphs I kind of lost interest and although I finished reading I really didn't get it. So then I talked to a buddy that's into racing and he explained with hands showing me how on this particular car the way the rear axle is designed that when you let out of the throttle for long the rear wheels gives themselves camber through the design of the rear axle. This is what was causing the snap oversteer. Once I realized this I was able to knock about 2 seconds of my time just by driving the car differently.

Pcars didn't give us a game with a 100 different cars. They gave us a 100 different video games that's how much information is in just 1 of these cars. 1 car or 1 car group could have been an entire game.

dault3883
21-04-2017, 20:40
I wish there was a beta or demo to but oh well.

As far as finding balance between controller settings and car setups. Driving a different car in PCARS should not affect your controller settings. This is huge because a lot of guys would change controller settings to match a given car. Once you find a sweet spot with controller settings you should not change them to match a car that's what the cars setup is for. Change the car not the settings or change the way you drive the car not the settings.

Example: I just did a community event about a month ago with the BMW 320 group 5 car at Zolder. I was really struggling with snap oversteer with the car. So I went and read some info on the car. It was a bunch of technical mumbo jumbo about the car and after 2 paragraphs I kind of lost interest and although I finished reading I really didn't get it. So then I talked to a buddy that's into racing and he explained with hands showing me how on this particular car the way the rear axle is designed that when you let out of the throttle for long the rear wheels gives themselves camber through the design of the rear axle. This is what was causing the snap oversteer. Once I realized this I was able to knock about 2 seconds of my time just by driving the car differently.

Pcars didn't give us a game with a 100 different cars. They gave us a 100 different video games that's how much information is in just 1 of these cars. 1 car or 1 car group could have been an entire game.

correct they essentially gave us iracing in a condensed console version without the monthly payments a lot more than i ever expected from Bandai

Konan
21-04-2017, 20:59
I'm with you here, I really want a demo...

...here you go...

237478

dault3883
21-04-2017, 21:03
...here you go...

237478

Konan thats funny have you tried standup comedy LOL

Konan
21-04-2017, 21:07
Nah...having too much fun over here...:p

hkraft300
21-04-2017, 22:14
I don't understand the want for demo.
If you don't like it: refund!
It's not complicated. Unless you buy digital from psn lol

dault3883
21-04-2017, 22:24
I don't understand the want for demo.
If you don't like it: refund!
It's not complicated. Unless you buy digital from psn lol

true i did that with a formula one game i didnt like

Azure Flare
21-04-2017, 22:37
So numero uno is tutorials. GTR2 had them, Richard Burns Rally had them, and if this online esports thing is to have a large and healthy playerbase, CARS2 also needs them. So that the 'casuals' have something in there to help them stop being 'casuals' in the bad sense of the word. Ideally these should be interactive - learning by doing. Stuff like how to go into a corner, how to overtake, flag rules, when it's safe to make a move and when you should back off, and also something covering how to learn a track without that lame green line.

Number two would be good gamepad support. The game should be fully playable and enjoyable for those who don't have a wheel or are not sure they want one. No weird stability assists, no long hours spent finetuning deadzones. Just like that, out of the box, someone with a pad should be able to enjoy the game in every aspect. They will buy wheels eventually, if they like the experience on pad.

Last but not least is singleplayer for those who are not after online competition. That means AI. I think it's safe to say that the career will be good, since CARS 1 already has that. I am enjoying it very much and I have actually noticed some good things about the AI - they do fight the player and each other on the track, some are faster some are slower, they sometimes make mistakes and they do make it hard to overtake. It would actually be pretty brilliant, had it not been for the occasional rampage the go on. It seem they just are unable to back off, when they should. Anyway, this will probably be the most tricky part to do, no racing sim is perfect in this regard. However, one thing I think would help a lot with the frustration of sometimes being shunned off track by AI after like 20 laps, would be a rewind feature. Yeah, I know, sounds like heresy, but it's not like it's mandatory and in some situations, it would be better to have such a thing then restart the race.

So, three things to alleviate the human factor and maybe accommodate those who just want a new cool looking non-acrade car game.



Practice. Practice. Practice. I'm not the best in the world, but I can get on just fine without any tutorials.
I can't answer this one since driving with a controller as opposed to a wheel feels wrong.
Good AI is a great thing to have. It's one of the reasons rFactor 2 is my go-to sim for AI racing. If ISI can program AI well, then others should be able to follow suit. (Looking at you Kunos.)

dault3883
21-04-2017, 23:33
Practice. Practice. Practice. I'm not the best in the world, but I can get on just fine without any tutorials.
I can't answer this one since driving with a controller as opposed to a wheel feels wrong.
Good AI is a great thing to have. It's one of the reasons rFactor 2 is my go-to sim for AI racing. If ISI can program AI well, then others should be able to follow suit. (Looking at you Kunos.)


see i can see it from the other end. This is only the second game iv ever used a wheel on. The other one was need for speed pro street, and it was a cheap mad cats wheel. Iv always, before pc1, used controller. So it is a learning curve, and while you are right practice is the most important tutorials couldnt hurt too. You can always learn more, there is always ways to become better. Look at the codemasters F1 games they have tutorials too, in fact its a pretty large part of the game. Fact is Cars has to apply to more than just the sim racer. They have to apply to the casual console player too, and they have to draw fans from the already successful Gran Turismo brand by sony, and the Forza brand by Microsoft. Infact if it hadn't of been for the fact that my computers video card wasn't good enough to download forza motorsport i never would of gotten project cars, but im glad i did its a wonderfull game. I love it now the way i used to love Gran Turismo when i first started playing Gran Turismo 2 when i was in Elementry school around the age of 11 or 12.

Azure Flare
22-04-2017, 00:02
see i can see it from the other end this is only the second game iv ever used a wheel on the other one was need for speed pro street and it was a cheap mad cats wheel iv always before pc1 used controller so it is a learning curve and while you are right practice is the most important tutorials couldnt hurt too you can always learn more there is always ways to become better and look at the codemasters F1 games they have tutorials too in fact its a pretty large part of the game fact is Cars has to apply to more than just the sim racer they have to apply to the casual console player too and they have to draw fans from the already successfule Gran Turismo brand by sony and the Forza brand by Microsoft infact if it hadnt of been for the fact that my computers video card wasnt good enough to download forza motorsport i never would of gotten project cars but im glad i did its a wonderfull game and i love it now the way i used to love Gran Turismo when i first started playing Gran Turismo 2 when i was in Elementry school around the age of 11 or 12

OK seriously, try to use punctuation and capital letters. Your posts are very hard to read.

dault3883
22-04-2017, 00:18
OK seriously, try to use punctuation and capital letters. Your posts are very hard to read.

Fixed it i write like i talk long winded its not intentional im a very hyper person

Bliman
22-04-2017, 00:25
To me it is easy to see why a demo is helpful.
And it helps both sides. Look at the Forza Horizon 3 demo on Xbox One, it was a great demo and anyone who just dipped in felt it was a great game and the fans were reassured. So you could get a taste of the full game.
Do you really think that some new customers come in if they have to ask for a refund (which with digital buy isn't easy, if at all) just to see if the game from which they heard had so many complaints about the controls has good controls now?
Also do you think that someone who bought Project Cars and didn't like it because of the controls that they will risk buying the game when refunding isnt that easy (at least here)?
I have no problem if they want to make it a hardcore sim but then they also have to take into account that not everyone knows everything about car setup and if the methods used in other race games don't apply here and they have to learn how to drive, and important in the end it has to be fun (and realistic) but not only for the one who drives with a wheel.
Like I already said I can also set respectable times, but that's beside the point if you don't feel one with the car and you (me) can't ride more then 10 laps with some cars without going off the track.
Maybe it's just the learning curve that is to great?

dault3883
22-04-2017, 00:32
To me it is easy to see why a demo is helpful.
And it helps both sides. Look at the Forza Horizon 3 demo on Xbox One, it was a great demo and anyone who just dipped in felt it was a great game and the fans were reassured. So you could get a taste of the full game.
Do you really think that some new customers come in if they have to ask for a refund (which with digital buy isn't easy, if at all) just to see if the game from which they heard had so many complaints about the controls has good controls now?
Also do you think that someone who bought Project Cars and didn't like it because of the controls that they will risk buying the game when refunding isnt that easy (at least here)?
I have no problem if they want to make it a hardcore sim but then they also have to take into account that not everyone knows everything about car setup and if the methods used in other race games don't apply here and they have to learn how to drive, and important in the end it has to be fun (and realistic) but not only for the one who drives with a wheel.
Like I already said I can also set respectable times, but that's beside the point if you don't feel one with the car and you (me) can't ride more then 10 laps with some cars without going off the track.
Maybe it's just the learning curve that is to great?

I can agree to that, i just hope they have the assists like they did in pc1. The steering assists, brake assists, traction control and so forth. The casual gamers (like me) will need them. Im not experienced enough to do straight up sim, and if im not having fun due to immense frustration im not playing i play to have fun its how i relax.

DECATUR PLAYA
22-04-2017, 00:40
I don't understand the want for demo.
If you don't like it: refund!
It's not complicated. Unless you buy digital from psn lol

I'm buying Pcars 2 regardless. I wanted a demo just for a early chance to play. The wait is torture. I trust their QA process.

dault3883
22-04-2017, 01:34
I'm buying Pcars 2 regardless. I wanted a demo just for a early chance to play. The wait is torture. I trust their QA process.

im with you on that you can pre order it now on amazon then now for xbox 1

hkraft300
22-04-2017, 02:43
I'm buying Pcars 2 regardless. I wanted a demo just for a early chance to play. The wait is torture. I trust their QA process.

Lol only reason I want a demo so I can get in on that action.
I missed out on wmd2.

dault3883
22-04-2017, 03:10
Lol only reason I want a demo so I can get in on that action.
I missed out on wmd2.

what is WMD and just out of curriosity how do people get into it (im just a very curious person picture a little kid who always asks questions LOL)

cxMilk
22-04-2017, 03:37
I understand both sides of the demo argument though I tend to sympathize with SMS's/Bandai's viewpoint. Myself, I'm really not into demos, but the few demos that I have tried over the years have led to me passing on the game. The last demo I tried was for FM6, mostly because of the debacle that was FM5. Everything about the demo was off putting and they lost a sale as a result. If, on the other hand, they had foregone putting out a demo, I would have bought the game. Essentially, Turn 10 offered me the chance to verify my misgivings given the previous title without having to put down dollar one.

Problem was, as it is with demos in general, they're typically unique builds and are stripped of a number of features. The only demo that instantly comes to mind, if memory serves, where this wasn't the case was Crash Bandicoot - it was the full game with a lockout after the first stage. Demos aren't necessarily made to show off the nitty-gritty details but are meant to be flash. Unfortunately, this can further preconceived biases. People who felt shafted by the first game probably won't find retribution in a demo as a lot of their issues likely wouldn't even be addressed in a demo. They would need to take a crack at a full build. People on the fence - eh, it's a 50/50 chance. Likely, the only people demos are winning over are the people who had a good probability of buying the game in the first place, not necessarily as a pre-order or even day one, but somewhere down the line. A demo's probably just speeding up that process. Ok, and some of those on-the-fence stragglers as well.

DECATUR PLAYA
22-04-2017, 04:50
I understand both sides of the demo argument though I tend to sympathize with SMS's/Bandai's viewpoint. Myself, I'm really not into demos, but the few demos that I have tried over the years have led to me passing on the game. The last demo I tried was for FM6, mostly because of the debacle that was FM5. Everything about the demo was off putting and they lost a sale as a result. If, on the other hand, they had foregone putting out a demo, I would have bought the game. Essentially, Turn 10 offered me the chance to verify my misgivings given the previous title without having to put down dollar one.

Problem was, as it is with demos in general, they're typically unique builds and are stripped of a number of features. The only demo that instantly comes to mind, if memory serves, where this wasn't the case was Crash Bandicoot - it was the full game with a lockout after the first stage. Demos aren't necessarily made to show off the nitty-gritty details but are meant to be flash. Unfortunately, this can further preconceived biases. People who felt shafted by the first game probably won't find retribution in a demo as a lot of their issues likely wouldn't even be addressed in a demo. They would need to take a crack at a full build. People on the fence - eh, it's a 50/50 chance. Likely, the only people demos are winning over are the people who had a good probability of buying the game in the first place, not necessarily as a pre-order or even day one, but somewhere down the line. A demo's probably just speeding up that process. Ok, and some of those on-the-fence stragglers as well.

I think they know that they got a good product so why deal with bs and ridicule until Showtime. We don't even have a solid release date and won't until QA is done.

Look at it this way they showed one guy play on a controller at an event. CONTROLLERS ARE STILL BROKEN!!!!!! That happens with this game a lot for some reason. How can controllers be broken on game that does not have a release date.

Azure Flare
22-04-2017, 04:58
what is WMD and just out of curriosity how do people get into it (im just a very curious person picture a little kid who always asks questions LOL)

Think of it as Early Access on Steam, but we paid to have exclusive access to daily builds and a forum. You could've gotten in from May-July (I think) back in 2015. A few others have gotten in afterwards as partners.

DECATUR PLAYA
22-04-2017, 05:02
what is WMD and just out of curriosity how do people get into it (im just a very curious person picture a little kid who always asks questions LOL)

They are the people who help make the game. Lots of people have input into the game. The people who's name show up here in yellow and orange are members they have input into the game in various ways. Just picture them as Santa's elves.

Konan
22-04-2017, 06:50
They are the people who help make the game. Lots of people have input into the game. The people who's name show up here in yellow and orange are members they have input into the game in various ways. Just picture them as Santa's elves.

...but watch out for the orange ones...they can really ruin your day...LOL

DECATUR PLAYA
22-04-2017, 07:46
...but watch out for the orange ones...they can really ruin your day...LOL

Yeah pay close attention to the Orange ones. Their instructions can be critical to further participation.

dault3883
22-04-2017, 13:06
Think of it as Early Access on Steam, but we paid to have exclusive access to daily builds and a forum. You could've gotten in from May-July (I think) back in 2015. A few others have gotten in afterwards as partners.


They are the people who help make the game. Lots of people have input into the game. The people who's name show up here in yellow and orange are members they have input into the game in various ways. Just picture them as Santa's elves.


...but watch out for the orange ones...they can really ruin your day...LOL


Yeah pay close attention to the Orange ones. Their instructions can be critical to further participation.

ok thanks i was just wondering thats cool that you guys make the game i just didnt know what the designation meant

BullWinkle
22-04-2017, 13:16
ok thanks i was just wondering thats cool that you guys make the game i just didnt know what the designation meant

WorldMassDevelopment
http://www.wmdportal.com
:)

Bliman
22-04-2017, 14:19
I also want to say that I will buy Project Cars 2.
And that I support the whole team because I think they are on the right track.
I just have fear for the controls because I want to see them succeed, because they have the right mindset what a simulator has to be.

dault3883
22-04-2017, 15:19
I also want to say that I will buy Project Cars 2.
And that I support the whole team because I think they are on the right track.
I just have fear for the controls because I want to see them succeed, because they have the right mindset what a simulator has to be.

agreed especially without the monthly fees like IRacing i just like the whole thing especially that they try to make it enjoyable for every one not just the sim racers but the casual racers too i got a buddy who strictly loves Grid autosport and iv been trying to get him to try PCars

Roger Prynne
22-04-2017, 15:33
WorldMassDevelopment
http://www.wmdportal.com
:)

When there, check out the About (http://www.wmdportal.com/about/) link.

DECATUR PLAYA
22-04-2017, 16:17
ok thanks i was just wondering thats cool that you guys make the game i just didnt know what the designation meant

Also you should know that by posting here in this forum that you are also helping make the game in a small way. They come here and read these opinions. The Boss even pops in on us occasionally and talks with us.

DECATUR PLAYA
22-04-2017, 17:07
I just wanted to add that if you can get the average guy going in the right direction the rest will happen on its on. If you can get him or her to just stick their hand in the rabbit hole it's over they will be hooked. Once some of these concepts start to sink in a guys mind will explode. It's getting past the first few hurdles that's the toughest part.

You ever watch that show Naked and Afraid where they throw people in the middle of some crazy jungle butt naked and see if they can survive. Early on a lot of guys didn't survive the PCARS jungle. They just needed a few survival techniques and they would have been fine.

dault3883
23-04-2017, 00:10
Also you should know that by posting here in this forum that you are also helping make the game in a small way. They come here and read these opinions. The Boss even pops in on us occasionally and talks with us.

thats cool id rather not know who he is though sometimes ignorance is bliss LOL


I just wanted to add that if you can get the average guy going in the right direction the rest will happen on its on. If you can get him or her to just stick their hand in the rabbit hole it's over they will be hooked. Once some of these concepts start to sink in a guys mind will explode. It's getting past the first few hurdles that's the toughest part.

You ever watch that show Naked and Afraid where they throw people in the middle of some crazy jungle butt naked and see if they can survive. Early on a lot of guys didn't survive the PCARS jungle. They just needed a few survival techniques and they would have been fine.

agreed

Azure Flare
23-04-2017, 00:16
thats cool id rather not know who he is though sometimes ignorance is bliss LOL


Let's just say you just let him win.

dault3883
23-04-2017, 00:44
Let's just say you just let him win.

how did you put ur steam id down in the bottom signature without having the whole url listed there