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Stewy32
20-04-2017, 18:56
Hi guys, assuming Project CARS 2's Career Mode is similar to Project CARS 1, What series do you think will be in their? Please comment whether you think it will be a main Championship or invitational.

Main
Tier 1
Indycar
LMP1
FIA World Endurance Championship
Tier 2
Endurance
Formula A
LMP2
Tier 3
GT3
Formula B
Club Endurance
LMP3
Rallycross (Better than pro)
Formula Renault 3.5
Tier 4
GT4
Club Prototypes
Formula C
TC3
Rallycross (Pro)
Stockcar
Formula Renault 2.0
Tier 5
GT5
TC2
Formula Gulf
Rallycross (Pro-Am)
Tier 6
TC1
Formula Rookie
Rallycross (Am)
Tier 7
Superkart
Tier 8
Kart One

Invitational Events
Historics
Road Vehicles
One Off Events from other tiers

Other notes
●I would like it if all the championships lasted a full year with a realistic amount of rounds (15 for Indycar,10 for GT3 World Championship)
●I would also like it if you signed a contract for a series, not a category.
●Furthermore, I think that if you are doing well in a lesser category your team could promote you to a car ran by them in a blue - riband event for a different series (Le Mans, Spa)
●Finally, it would be nice if the AI had similar performance in each round (3rd,2nd,5th not 1st,7th,17th) and that the AI have a starting point and get promoted and demoted depending where they finish in the championship and/or get a new contract with a different team.Drivers would retire if they have been Racing for several years (back story required) and replaced by new drivers who start in karts (AI names that weren't used when the initial Standings were created.

snipeme77
20-04-2017, 20:49
Hi guys, assuming Project CARS 2's Career Mode is similar to Project CARS 1, What series do you think will be in their? Please comment whether you think it will be a main Championship or invitational.

Main
Tier 1
Indycar Series
Tier 2
World Endurance Championship
European Endurance Championship
American Endurance Championship
Tier 3
GT3 World Championship
Tier 4
Tier 5
Tier 6
Tier 7
Tier 8

Invitational Events

Personally I would like to see a Race Driver Pro/TOCA style story. But I doubt that's going to happen...

breyzipp
20-04-2017, 21:14
I'm sure Rallycross will be at least 1 serie as well.

FS7
20-04-2017, 23:17
Tier 1: FA, LMP1, Endurance
Tier 2: Indycar, FB, LMP2
Tier 3: FC, LMP3, GT3, RX
Tier 4: GT4
Invitationals: road cars, any race car that is more than a few years old and isn't racing in a current series, DLC cars that don't fit in main career events.

MillsLayne
20-04-2017, 23:28
Tier 1: FA, LMP1, Endurance
Tier 2: Indycar, FB, LMP2
Tier 3: FC, LMP3, GT3, RX
Tier 4: GT4
Invitationals: road cars, any race car that is more than a few years old and isn't racing in a current series, DLC cars that don't fit in main career events.

I like this tier system. Could probably fit stock cars (assuming we get them) in Tier 2 as well.

snipeme77
21-04-2017, 14:46
Personally I see
NOTE THIS IS A GUESS ON CAREER AND CONTENT

Normal in game at release
BOLD in possible DLC

Tier 1 FA, Endurance LMP1 and 2, LMP 1 Sprint races, Indycar, Rallycross, Super GT 500?

Tier 2 FB, Endurance GT2 and 3, LMP 2 Sprint races, Stock cars, Rallycross (with the super light cars) Time attack Hill climb?

Tier 3 FC, Endurance LMP 3, GT2 and 3 Sprint races, Touring Cars Class 2, Time Attack Class 2, Touge racing?

Tier 4 Formula vee/ford, LMP3 sprint races, GT4 Endurance (Doesn't race with other endurance classes), Touring cars class 1, Dirt ovals class 2, Time Attack Class 1, Drift?

Tier 5 Go Karts, Super carts, Dirt ovals class 1, Grass Roots Endurance (Doesn't race with other endurance classes, races on dirt and asphalt.), street racing (Point to point races with street cars)

Invitational. GTP/Gr-C, Gr-A, Gr-5, Vintage GT and LMP, GT1 and LMP 900, Vintage Stock cars, Historic Indy Cars, Vintage Rallycross, Historic F1 in the 60's 70's and 80's, Street cars, loony races...

joelsantos24
21-04-2017, 16:03
Personally I see
NOTE THIS IS A GUESS ON CAREER AND CONTENT

Normal in game at release
BOLD in possible DLC

Tier 1 FA, Endurance LMP1 and 2, LMP 1 Sprint races, Indycar, Rallycross, Super GT 500?

Tier 2 FB, Endurance GT2 and 3, LMP 2 Sprint races, Stock cars, Rallycross (with the super light cars) Time attack Hill climb?

Tier 3 FC, Endurance LMP 3, GT2 and 3 Sprint races, Touring Cars Class 2, Time Attack Class 2, Touge racing?

Tier 4 Formula vee/ford, LMP3 sprint races, GT4 Endurance (Doesn't race with other endurance classes), Touring cars class 1, Dirt ovals class 2, Time Attack Class 1, Drift?

Tier 5 Go Karts, Super carts, Dirt ovals class 1, Grass Roots Endurance (Doesn't race with other endurance classes, races on dirt and asphalt.), street racing (Point to point races with street cars)

Invitational. GTP/Gr-C, Gr-A, Gr-5, Vintage GT and LMP, GT1 and LMP 900, Vintage Stock cars, Historic Indy Cars, Vintage Rallycross, Historic F1 in the 60's 70's and 80's, Street cars, loony races...
Yeah, I agree.

dault3883
21-04-2017, 16:08
Yeah, I agree.

would be cool if they had the formula E cars too

joelsantos24
21-04-2017, 16:11
would be cool if they had the formula E cars too
Definitely. I think it's far more interesting than F1, anyway.

Stewy32
22-04-2017, 11:21
Personally I see
NOTE THIS IS A GUESS ON CAREER AND CONTENT

Normal in game at release
BOLD in possible DLC

Tier 1 FA, Endurance LMP1 and 2, LMP 1 Sprint races, Indycar, Rallycross, Super GT 500?

Tier 2 FB, Endurance GT2 and 3, LMP 2 Sprint races, Stock cars, Rallycross (with the super light cars) Time attack Hill climb?

Tier 3 FC, Endurance LMP 3, GT2 and 3 Sprint races, Touring Cars Class 2, Time Attack Class 2, Touge racing?

Tier 4 Formula vee/ford, LMP3 sprint races, GT4 Endurance (Doesn't race with other endurance classes), Touring cars class 1, Dirt ovals class 2, Time Attack Class 1, Drift?

Tier 5 Go Karts, Super carts, Dirt ovals class 1, Grass Roots Endurance (Doesn't race with other endurance classes, races on dirt and asphalt.), street racing (Point to point races with street cars)

Invitational. GTP/Gr-C, Gr-A, Gr-5, Vintage GT and LMP, GT1 and LMP 900, Vintage Stock cars, Historic Indy Cars, Vintage Rallycross, Historic F1 in the 60's 70's and 80's, Street cars, loony races...

I have changed mine slightly with some of your ideas.

breyzipp
22-04-2017, 22:22
GTE has already been confirmed as being a class by the way.

Stewy32
23-04-2017, 17:28
What do you guys think of my notes?

MillsLayne
23-04-2017, 23:54
Just a thought about IndyCar and stock car. I think they belong on the same tier, maybe tier 2. At the least, HIGH tier 3.

seb02
24-04-2017, 06:29
I hope a career that would look like this:

Endurance : Protoype, European Le Mans Series, Asian Le Mans Series, IMSA, WEC
Touring : Clio cup, Megane trophy, BTCC, TCR (maybe DLC), Race mixing GT and Touring (Pirelli World challenge, 24h series...)
GT : GT5, FIA Euro GT4, British GT, Adac GT, Blancpain GT
Open Wheel : Formula rookie, Formula C, Formula renault, Indycar, Formula A
Others : Rallycross, Ice race, Stockcar (Maybe DLC)

The best would be to have an offline custom championship.

OddTimer
24-04-2017, 16:18
I think career championships will try to emulate real life championships, imsa etc...hence the lack of a customisable offline championship mode...I think SMS wants championships in career mode to be the go to feature for offline players....

dault3883
24-04-2017, 16:24
I think career championships will try to emulate real life championships, imsa etc...hence the lack of a customisable offline championship mode...I think SMS wants championships in career mode to be the go to feature for offline players....

That would be wicked to have a full championship cover America, Asia, and Europe, instead of individual championships like we have now. If it included key races like 24 Rolex Daytona, 24 Le Mans, and 24 Spa it would be better. And if we could save mid game in the pits like the 24 Heures Du Mans game that would be even better.

snipeme77
25-04-2017, 16:13
GTE has already been confirmed as being a class by the way.

Yeah, still in the habit of calling GTE, GT2.

Mac1534
01-05-2017, 14:48
im actually curious what ovals will be in game i know daytona will but what others beside that. if your only gonna have a couple throw in bristol too. i want oval career mode with restarts and live pitstops.

breyzipp
01-05-2017, 16:27
That would be wicked to have a full championship cover America, Asia, and Europe, instead of individual championships like we have now. If it included key races like 24 Rolex Daytona, 24 Le Mans, and 24 Spa it would be better. And if we could save mid game in the pits like the 24 Heures Du Mans game that would be even better.

There can be multiple championships at the same time. You could for example run IMSA GT in the US and at the same time run Blancpain or WEC in Europe/Asia. Just like in real life. :) Besides, in PCARS1 several (regional) championships also ran at the same time and you just had to pick which one to go with.

I sure hope SMS will try to mimic the real life racing calendars as much as possible. And if a certain track is not in the game they replace it with something close in the area.

For example, below are 2 racing series calendars with the tracks in bold being tracks we already have confirmed in PCARS2. (Spa and Monza still missing from that track picture but I assume they will make a return)

2017 WEC calendar (my favorite series in real life) :

1) 6 Hours of Silverstone (16 April)
2) 6 Hours of Spa-Francorchamps (6 May)
3) 24 Hours of Le Mans (17–18 June)
4) 6 Hours of Nürburgring (16 July)
5) 6 Hours of Mexico (3 September) => could be replaced by Road America (or Interlagos if it makes it in time) if the track won't be in the game.
6) 6 Hours of Circuit of the Americas (16 September)
7) 6 Hours of Fuji (15 October)
8) 6 Hours of Shanghai (5 November) => could be replaced by Zhuhai International Circuit (also in China)
9) 6 Hours of Bahrain (18 November) => could be replaced by Dubai Autodrome (closest circuit to UEA we have and also located in middle east)

The 2017 Blancpain GT series calendar looks like this :

1) Misano (01st-02nd April) (sprint) => could be replaced by Imola (also in Italy)
2) Monza (22nd-23rd April) (endurance 3h)
3) Brands Hatch (06th-07th May) (sprint)
4) Silverstone (13th-14th May) (endurance 3h)
5) Zolder (02nd -04th June) (sprint)
6) Paul Ricard (23rd-24th June) (endurance 1000km) => could be replaced by Bugatti Circuit (also in France)
7) Spa (27th-30th July) (endurance 24h)
8) Hungaroring (25th-27th August) (sprint) => could be replaced by Brno or Red Bull Ring (both closest to Hungary)
9) Nürburgring (15th-17th September) (sprint)
10) Barcelona (30th Sept-01st October) (endurance 3h)


Make no mistake though, I would absolutely LOVE to see those missing tracks in the game, Bahrain, Shangai, Hungaroring, Paul Ricard, etc are all amazing circuits. But as you see we already have 6 out of 9 tracks from the WEC calendar confirmed to be in the game and 7 out of 10 of the Blancpain series. If licencing prohibits the official championship names to be used then I'm sure they can come up with some similar names, they sure did the same with the fake sponsors in PCARS1.

With a track roster as big as the one from PCARS 2 (largest on console ever) being able to have about 70% of the tracks in the game as well is a big advantage to mimic the real life championships.

PCARS 2 just screams for real life championships to be recreated in the game so I hope it's either implemented in the career mode or else we will be able to create them ourselves.

And in addition to the real life championships they could also create a couple of fictional ones, they would need to include the circuits or configurations of tracks that are not used much in the other championships. One thing I disliked a bit in PCARS 1 career mode is that I barely raced on Zhuhai Circuit while at the same time I got bored to the back of my teeth with Oulton and Donington. A better spread of circuit usage (without compromising real life championships) would be welcome. They can always use invitational races to rebalance this as well.

Mattze
20-05-2017, 00:41
I hope all the championships will go over a full season. It is much more fun to have one champinonship with 7, 8 (maybe double) races instead of 3 championships with 2 races in one season. By the way, this is much more realistic too. For example, in your first season, you go for a regional championship. After that you can either go to the next tier or stay on the same tier but now go for a continental or world championship.

RacingAtHome
20-05-2017, 00:59
I hope all the championships will go over a full season. It is much more fun to have one champinonship with 7, 8 (maybe double) races instead of 3 championships with 2 races in one season. By the way, this is much more realistic too. For example, in your first season, you go for a regional championship. After that you can either go to the next tier or stay on the same tier but now go for a continental or world championship.

Yeah. I agree with this. It was one of my annoyances with the career mode too. For the British GT3 championship you had 2/3 rounds where the real British GT has many with a variance of rounds too. It's only one example but it's definitely a valid one. Adding to round variance, there are different types of races with the Endurance races and the Sprint races with the GT4 class. I think they could add even more variance by taking advantage of multiclass more.

seb02
20-05-2017, 06:10
I hope all the championships will go over a full season. It is much more fun to have one champinonship with 7, 8 (maybe double) races instead of 3 championships with 2 races in one season. By the way, this is much more realistic too. For example, in your first season, you go for a regional championship. After that you can either go to the next tier or stay on the same tier but now go for a continental or world championship.

i totally agree with you

dault3883
20-05-2017, 11:35
I hope all the championships will go over a full season. It is much more fun to have one champinonship with 7, 8 (maybe double) races instead of 3 championships with 2 races in one season. By the way, this is much more realistic too. For example, in your first season, you go for a regional championship. After that you can either go to the next tier or stay on the same tier but now go for a continental or world championship.

agreed that would be perfect go for reginal then id go for american then european then asian then WORLD

KANETAKER
21-05-2017, 03:37
Tier 1: WEC (Endurance with LMP1 or GTE Pro), LMP1, FA (F1).

Tier 2: Indycar, FB (GP2), LMP2, IMSA, ELMS, GTE, WEC (Endurance with LMP2 or GTE Am).

Tier 3: Nascar, FC (GP3), LMP3, GT3 (Blancpain Series), ALMS (Asian Lemans Series), Formula E.

Tier 4: Formula Renault, GT4, V8 Supercar, Club Prototypes (Radical, Palmer Jaguar, Caterham).

Tier 5: Formula Rookie, GT5, Clio Cup, Stockcars.

seb02
21-05-2017, 07:26
tier 1 open wheel : formula rookie, formula c, formula renault, formula A and indycar
tier 2 endurance : Prototype, IMSA, European Le Mans Series, Asia le Mans series, WEC
tier 3 GT : GT5, British GT, Euro Gt4, Blancpain GT3, Pirelli World Challenge
tier 4 Touring : Clio cup, Megane trophy, BTCC, V8 supercars, TCR international
tier 5 Other : Rally cross, Nascar, race on snow

with longer championship than PC1

dault3883
21-05-2017, 10:44
Tier 1: WEC (Endurance with LMP1 or GTE Pro), LMP1, FA (F1).

Tier 2: Indycar, FB (GP2), LMP2, IMSA, ELMS, GTE, WEC (Endurance with LMP2 or GTE Am).

Tier 3: Nascar, FC (GP3), LMP3, GT3 (Blancpain Series), ALMS (Asian Lemans Series), Formula E.

Tier 4: Formula Renault, GT4, V8 Supercar, Club Prototypes (Radical, Palmer Jaguar, Caterham).

Tier 5: Formula Rookie, GT5, Clio Cup, Stockcars.

i like that format

Mattze
30-06-2017, 20:31
Today, I've played PC1 career mode once again and finished the championship in 2nd place. It's so frustrating that you must win the championship to get a contract for the next tier in your disciplin. Yeah, you can scale the AI strength, but then I win each race. It would be nice if you can risk something without thinking "Oh, I must slow the AI otherwise I won't reach the next tier". These utopian goals kill the career mode completely, sorry. By the way, which driver in real life won all championships in his career?
I hope for the career mode in PC2 that the goals are downgraded, so you can get the next tier even if you reach 4th place or something similar. It will be so much more fun (and much more realistic too)!

breyzipp
30-06-2017, 20:40
Today, I've played PC1 career mode once again and finished the championship in 2nd place. It's so frustrating that you must win the championship to get a contract for the next tier in your disciplin. Yeah, you can scale the AI strength, but then I win each race. It would be nice if you can risk something without thinking "Oh, I must slow the AI otherwise I won't reach the next tier". These utopian goals kill the career mode completely, sorry. By the way, which driver in real life won all championships in his career?
I hope for the career mode in PC2 that the goals are downgraded, so you can get the next tier even if you reach 4th place or something similar. It will be so much more fun (and much more realistic too)!

Agree with this, a podium finish should be sufficient.

FS7
30-06-2017, 21:07
Today, I've played PC1 career mode once again and finished the championship in 2nd place. It's so frustrating that you must win the championship to get a contract for the next tier in your disciplin. Yeah, you can scale the AI strength, but then I win each race. It would be nice if you can risk something without thinking "Oh, I must slow the AI otherwise I won't reach the next tier". These utopian goals kill the career mode completely, sorry. By the way, which driver in real life won all championships in his career?
I hope for the career mode in PC2 that the goals are downgraded, so you can get the next tier even if you reach 4th place or something similar. It will be so much more fun (and much more realistic too)!
Agreed.
My workwaround was to "cheat": start in karts, work my way up until LMP1 on the easiest difficulty/shortest length in order to unlock all tiers, then go back and play the disciplines I'm interested in with the proper difficulty & length settings.

snipeme77
15-07-2017, 15:10
So I've been snooping around the dark web portion of Da youtubes, and I came across a video about the career mode. Here's some notes I made...

1. It's very clean. The UI and menu system looks very Battlefield inspired and looks and operates great.
2. 6x6 career tiers. It's 6 tiers wide (Progression) and 6 tiers down (Different racing disciplines) It goes from top to bottom Open wheel, LMP/Endurance, (Two progression tracks lead to) GT, Touring cars, Rallycross
3. Officially licensed series. Kind of a no duh, but there's a couple of surprise inclusions you may not expect.
4.______________ Revival class. Racing old cars in career mode.
5. All and all it looks very cool.

amazed
15-07-2017, 15:12
I think you'll find showing menus okay now, look in the PC2 videos threads.....

breyzipp
15-07-2017, 15:38
Can relink it here as well since it might get lost in all the WMD video posts soon. :)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Au_98motkI8

I think it looks great to be honest. Also invitational events are now pulled out of the career and are in a separate list (as you can see from the tabs on the top and as Stephen Viljoen already said in interviews a while ago). Absolutely love this since often in PCARS1 they come in the way, you start doing them and then get distracted from your main career if they take long.

snipeme77
15-07-2017, 15:41
I'm so pumped for the World Challenge class. I'm guessing it GT and Touring car mixed class?

Also why if FX under Indy car?

GenBrien
15-07-2017, 16:29
still not sure as to why there is things locked in the career?
I thought the goal was to have all unlocked from the start and play as you want?

Bealdor
15-07-2017, 17:11
still not sure as to why there is things locked in the career?
I thought the goal was to have all unlocked from the start and play as you want?

PCARS 1 was praised for having everything available from the beginning but was also criticised for its lack of achievements/goals.
As a compromise all cars and tracks are still available in the other game modes but some career series (and factory drives) have to be unlocked.

RacingAtHome
15-07-2017, 17:48
What would improve the immersion a bit is if the PWC liveries are in PWC and Blancpain GT liveries are in GT3.

snipeme77
15-07-2017, 17:55
PCARS 1 was praised for having everything available from the beginning but was also criticised for its lack of achievements/goals.
As a compromise all cars and tracks are still available in the other game modes but some career series (and factory drives) have to be unlocked.

Can you explain what a factory Drive is? what makes it different from an Invitational event?

breyzipp
15-07-2017, 17:55
PCARS 1 was praised for having everything available from the beginning but was also criticised for its lack of achievements/goals.
As a compromise all cars and tracks are still available in the other game modes but some career series (and factory drives) have to be unlocked.

I personally really like full career unlock structures like in GT6, Dirt 4 or FM6 for example. It also allows you to keep good track of what you already played through and what not. However I don't like the "grind for credits" thing because then the mathematics-person in me wakes up and I start driving the cars that are best for farming credits, instead of driving the cars I would like to drive.

So in PCARS 2 I wouldn't even mind being forced to start in a kart and having to unlock everything else since I plan to do everything from career anyway. Actually can't we have a "full locked career" option for that? of the screen where you fill in your name, initials and choose your country? :P

But I can understand people getting used to PC1 prefer everything available from the start. So without an option switch to have career branches locked or not, the current table is a bit of a weird move, like trying to take the best of both worlds but I wonder if the compromise will satisfy many players from either side.



Can you explain what a factory Drive is? what makes it different from an Invitational event?

I was wondering this as well. Maybe the factory drives are just 1 round races and the invitationals are like 3-round mini championships with race weekend structure?

snipeme77
15-07-2017, 17:56
238768

FS7
15-07-2017, 20:27
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Au_98motkI8
Nice!
Can we choose race length in career?

RacingAtHome
15-07-2017, 21:47
Nice!
Can we choose race length in career?

I think it would be similar to PC1.

FS7
15-07-2017, 21:57
I think it would be similar to PC1.
I'd expect that too but I didn't see any sliders to adjust session length in the video.

Mahjik
16-07-2017, 03:26
Nice!
Can we choose race length in career?


It's just like in PC1 where you can set the percentage for the races.

Cholton82
16-07-2017, 06:54
Has Lmp1 and Lmp2 single class races had the race length increased ? Short 15 minute races in these cars made no sense to me .

OddTimer
16-07-2017, 09:56
Has Lmp1 and Lmp2 single class races had the race length increased ? Short 15 minute races in these cars made no sense to me .


I'd like to know that as well....these classes should run at least 2hr races (full length race I mean)

Rodgerzzz
16-07-2017, 10:13
Im intrigued by the video mrsteeljockey posted on YT about being able to pick any car and livery from the championship you choose to start in. I'm guessing specific teams will offer you drives as you progress and you won't be able to pick which livery you want every time you move into a new championship?

RacingAtHome
16-07-2017, 15:09
I'd like to know that as well....these classes should run at least 2hr races (full length race I mean)

We're not seeing LMP1 and LMP2 on the career tree. So I'm expecting these to be in the Endurance and other aspects of the tree.

Mattze
16-07-2017, 15:49
It's nice that we can choose between short and long versions of a season, so the times of two race championships are over. But I don't understand why they don't implement the full series if they are able to do this. For example the GT5 Challenge from the video. In reality, Brands Hatch Indy + GP are part of the calendar, they drive Snetterton 300 instead of 200 and the whole series is a 2-race-format. We don't have either Rockingham, Thruxton or Croft, but the rest should be simulated as accurately as possible imo. Hope that the details still change.

Davidiano
17-07-2017, 19:09
Hi guys,no coop career mode? Thanks for answering in advance.

hkraft300
18-07-2017, 08:07
Hi guys,no coop career mode? Thanks for answering in advance.

There's a Co-driver mode getting patched in after release. Not sure what you mean by Co-op career mode.

Davidiano
18-07-2017, 14:51
There's a Co-driver mode getting patched in after release. Not sure what you mean by Co-op career mode.

Coop career like a Codemasters F1,two friends playing in one team on different cars (sorry for my bad English)

GenBrien
19-07-2017, 00:27
There's a Co-driver mode getting patched in after release.
source?
more details?

Javaniceday
19-07-2017, 01:19
Anybody know how new contracts are working pCARS2?

In pCARS1, using GT4, as an example, at first you get to choose the BMW or the Mustang team, which are slower than the teams using the Ginetta or the Aston Martin. So you do super awesome considering the slower cars your driving, season ends, you expect a faster team to offer you a deal, but no new offers.

So you figure you have to win the championship to get a new offer, but its impossible in a slower car. So you lower the AI speed, you win, and immediately you get offers from ALL the GT3 teams.

In other words, kinda lame. Artificial.

Has this changed?

I hope they make it team-centric, instead of tier-centric. And I hope the requirements are interesting for different teams. Some teams in your same tier will offer you a contract if you're competitive in a slower car. Some teams in higher tiers will want you if you win 3 championships in the same, lower tier. Some teams like it if you show loyalty to the same team.

Anybody know?

snipeme77
19-07-2017, 03:21
Anybody know how new contracts are working pCARS2?

In pCARS1, using GT4, as an example, at first you get to choose the BMW or the Mustang team, which are slower than the teams using the Ginetta or the Aston Martin. So you do super awesome considering the slower cars your driving, season ends, you expect a faster team to offer you a deal, but no new offers.

So you figure you have to win the championship to get a new offer, but its impossible in a slower car. So you lower the AI speed, you win, and immediately you get offers from ALL the GT3 teams.

In other words, kinda lame. Artificial.

Has this changed?

I hope they make it team-centric, instead of tier-centric. And I hope the requirements are interesting for different teams. Some teams in your same tier will offer you a contract if you're competitive in a slower car. Some teams in higher tiers will want you if you win 3 championships in the same, lower tier. Some teams like it if you show loyalty to the same team.

Anybody know?

Well you get to chose the car your team drives when you enter the class now so... Watch Steel's video a few pages back

hkraft300
19-07-2017, 03:38
source?
more details?

Last year it was on the pc2 feature list.
The way I understood it: in an endurance race, instead of having an AI Co-driver, you could have a human Co-driver take the next stint. But it was removed from the site.
I know someone who knows someone who robbed someone read it on the gtplanet thread.

Javaniceday
19-07-2017, 04:46
Well you get to chose the car your team drives when you enter the class now so... Watch Steel's video a few pages back

Well, you're right. Well then, they're undermining their own vision doing it that way, then. If you get to pick the car, the livery, etc, what's the point of of going through the career mode? :/

honespc
19-07-2017, 06:47
Road Cars invitational only?, now with the new handling?. Why?

RacingAtHome
19-07-2017, 10:56
Well you get to chose the car your team drives when you enter the class now so... Watch Steel's video a few pages back

I have a feeling that might just be for the very first career event and then on it's contract based. Although we don't know.

Mahjik
19-07-2017, 14:17
Well, you're right. Well then, they're undermining their own vision doing it that way, then. If you get to pick the car, the livery, etc, what's the point of of going through the career mode? :/

There were a lot of complaints from users since they couldn't use their favorite liveries during career. SMS is trying to balance their vision of a career mode with what the majority wants. The majority doesn't want "exactly" what its like to be a real racer, but just "sort of" what its like.

RacingAtHome
19-07-2017, 15:26
There were a lot of complaints from users since they couldn't use their favorite liveries during career. SMS is trying to balance their vision of a career mode with what the majority wants. The majority doesn't want "exactly" what its like to be a real racer, but just "sort of" what its like.

Ah ok. Do we get car contracts for series with multiple cars and choose from liveries?

Mahjik
19-07-2017, 15:34
Ah ok. Do we get car contracts for series with multiple cars and choose from liveries?

I haven't played hardly any of the career so someone else will have to comment. I *think* you get a contract for a series and you pick which skin you want to use.

snipeme77
19-07-2017, 15:40
There were a lot of complaints from users since they couldn't use their favorite liveries during career. SMS is trying to balance their vision of a career mode with what the majority wants. The majority doesn't want "exactly" what its like to be a real racer, but just "sort of" what its like.

I mean, if a hotshot driver joins a team, they may fork over the cash for a new ride. Plus there's sponsorships and works teams, plenty of reasons or ways a team would get a new car with a new driver.

Mahjik
19-07-2017, 15:45
^ did you quote the right post?

honespc
19-07-2017, 16:29
Mahjik is it possible to confirm whether Road Cars will be a category this time?.

You developers can not let the epic races in the club sections many tracks feature that should be achievable now with the new handling, pass this time.

I can not be the only one that really enjoys quick 10 laps club races with road cars even in pc1, and with weather. I understand not everybody might do because of not having a wheel, which "unfortunately" is mandatory for road cars in pc1 for factory units, but now that in pc2 the handling seems to be meant for everyone, pad players too?. With those drifting shows we see in some videos?. Come on say there's at least one big road car model league at all club sections in career.

banner77amc
19-07-2017, 16:37
Only complaint I ever had about the Career mode was that my wife was jealous of me getting messages from fans like @HotRacerGirlWMD. I believe I lost 10 minutes of the game explaining to her it wasn't real. (or was it?)

Mahjik
19-07-2017, 16:44
Mahjik is it possible to confirm whether Road Cars will be a category this time?

There isn't really categories so to speak. The cars are broken up into classes of similar performance so you'll be able to say for this race you only want cars of Road A, B & C for example.

Fight-Test
19-07-2017, 16:57
Well, you're right. Well then, they're undermining their own vision doing it that way, then. If you get to pick the car, the livery, etc, what's the point of of going through the career mode? :/

The racing

banner77amc
19-07-2017, 17:14
The racing

I will pile on with saying its the racing

Javaniceday
19-07-2017, 17:19
The racing

yeah... that's fine... no doubt the racing will be great.

But you can get that in a single race, or a custom season, or even better, online, which at this point is what I'll be getting the game for. (if weather is scripted and new contracts are artificial, I'll be skipping the career mode)

The career mode should be something special.

RacerDude
19-07-2017, 19:26
238768

Can someone please post what each of these are? Some I cannot make it what it is. Is Formula A to the right mean that is the highest Tier?

Mattze
19-07-2017, 20:08
Can someone please post what each of these are? Some I cannot make it what it is. Is Formula A to the right mean that is the highest Tier?

Tier 6: Formula Rookie, Kart One, Ginetta Junior Challenge
Tier 5: Formula C, Sportscar Lites, Ginetta GT5 Challenge, Clio Cup UK
Tier 4: Formula Renault 3.5, Prototypes C, GT4, Cayman Cup, Group A, RX National Lites
Tier 3: Formula A, LMP3, Super Trofeo, Rennsport Revival (maybe Group 5?), R.S. 01 Cup, RX International Lites
Tier 2: Formula X, WSCR (LMP1 and 2, I guess), GT3, Touring Cars (cannot see which one), some RX championship
Tier 1: Indycar, Endurance Series, Pirelli World Challenge, another Touring Cars Series, RX International

This table looks very random for me. The classes within the tiers are not comparable, for example Formula A and LMP3! Moreover, the R.S.01 is a GT not a Touring Car. Some classes such as Touring Cars and RX are splitted because of the lack of other classes. Historic championships are mixed with modern unlike in PC1, so it seems that the Lotus Series are invitationals but Group A is a main part. LMP1 and 2 together? Why is the Cayman part of the main career but the 911 (aka Porsche Supercup) not? What are Prototypes C? Aren't they track day cars and should invitationals?

Hope, that this is not the final result. It seems that they absolutley want to fit this static table, what isn't really necessary imo. Why the career mode cannot be more dynamic with more branches among each other? This looks neither realistic nor fun (yeah I always know what comes next).

ramm21
19-07-2017, 20:11
Mahjik is it possible to confirm whether Road Cars will be a category this time?.

You developers can not let the epic races in the club sections many tracks feature that should be achievable now with the new handling, pass this time.

I can not be the only one that really enjoys quick 10 laps club races with road cars even in pc1, and with weather. I understand not everybody might do because of not having a wheel, which "unfortunately" is mandatory for road cars in pc1 for factory units, but now that in pc2 the handling seems to be meant for everyone, pad players too?. With those drifting shows we see in some videos?. Come on say there's at least one big road car model league at all club sections in career.

Do you mean road cars should have their own tier in career mode? I like racing road cars a lot as well. If they have their own tier thats fine for me, but I also don't mind them being invitational only events in career mode. I just wish we had a bit more traditional rivalry in the road classes, like a Camaro and Mustang in the same class.

honespc
19-07-2017, 20:24
There isn't really categories so to speak. The cars are broken up into classes of similar performance so you'll be able to say for this race you only want cars of Road A, B & C for example.Sorry my bad. I meant in career mode. A road car tier, based on club races mostly


Do you mean road cars should have their own tier in career mode? ^


I just wish we had a bit more traditional rivalry in the road classes, like a Camaro and Mustang in the same class. Yeah. Face off stages or invitational events of this kind would be a killer, in tracks like the Scottish one and the like

CassielLight
20-07-2017, 09:33
I can kinda see why players want a bit more control over how their car looks than they'd get IRL. On the other hand, there's something to be said for a semi-realistic lack of driver-level choice. On the OTHER other hand, some teams can be awfully micromanaging with their drivers; that's not at all fun, and doesn't really belong in the medium.

So, valid points all around. I think the overall experience for longitudinal games--career modes, sandboxes, and the like--should be one of, "Let me experience something big, that I otherwise can't." Thus, the recent push for more outside-the-lines features in sports games generally: we all see what happens on the field, but what about the rest of it?

And I think a lot of the disappointment about some of these titles, essentially comes down to misuse of the medium. For a video game, that really boils down to letting the player do what's fun; most of the letdowns in the longitudinal genre tend to be "not enough doing," or "doing too much tedious stuff," and occasionally, "capriciously not letting the player do something."

Skyrim really set the bar high for the genre: lots of different stuff to do, nearly complete freedom of action, and no tedium for tedium's sake. And on the sports side, MLB The Show 17 seems to have hit on something with this year's iteration of Road To the Show.

Meanwhile, one reason Gran Turismo lost me, was because it forced me to do a lot of tedious stuff before I could even get behind the wheel of the better cars, and then demanded I spend an excessive amount of time under the hood before I could be competitive with the cars I'd already done all that tedious stuff to get.

honespc
20-07-2017, 11:15
^What you refer to as tedious stuff in games like Gran Turismo, was precisely what others found so enjoyable, like beginning by buying a used Nissan Primera or a Supra turbo; entering a race; realizing your car not powerful enough; do some races; install your first turbo; tyres..., etc a climbing process.

It's the only aspect I don't like about project cars. The vision of "here, have everything at your disposal from the beginning because I have no time to unlock because I have a hard job and wife and kids and I have no time and blahblah I'm a lazy ****"..., your concern.

I think Project Cars could have benefited from a rewarding system for those who play the game more and put a effort into it, such as locked content, in other words cars that you have to win by winning or achieving things

RacingAtHome
20-07-2017, 11:37
^What you refer to as tedious stuff in games like Gran Turismo, was precisely what others found so enjoyable, like beginning by buying a used Nissan Primera or a Supra turbo; entering a race; realizing your car not powerful enough; do some races; install your first turbo; tyres..., etc a climbing process.

It's the only aspect I don't like about project cars. The vision of "here, have everything at your disposal from the beginning because I have no time to unlock because I have a hard job and wife and kids and I have no time and blahblah I'm a lazy ****"..., your concern.

I think Project Cars could have benefited from a rewarding system for those who play the game more and put a effort into it, such as locked content, in other words cars that you have to win by winning or achieving things

What you don't like about this series is more about what the series is than a specific issue with the game. The game isn't a car collecting and customising experience like Forza and GT. It's where you simulate motorsport events and earn contracts etc. Unlocking things by winning things will only work if SMS go down the team ownership side like DiRT 4.

honespc
20-07-2017, 14:11
Never referred to as an issue.

Just saying that unlocking cars through for instance playing career and achieving some certain goals online would have get along perfectly well with the "simulate motorsports and eran contracts" philosophy, which to be honest and in my humble opinion is just smoke for the sad and so common now a days culture that stands for "Have everything from the beginning. You have no time we know. Or worse you're lazy, but we love you too".

Just my two cents on the subject.

hkraft300
20-07-2017, 15:02
Just saying that unlocking cars through for instance playing career and achieving some certain goals ...

Start with karts and "unlock" the next tier of cars and invitational events by achieving good results...?
Sounds familiar ;)

honespc
20-07-2017, 15:22
The self-delusion methodology didn't quite work through pc1 career : - D

I was just making the observation that locking, not just some but a lot of stuff in a video game that must be dealt with through the very enjoyment of playing, is or should never be seen from a negative perspective, and work along with any other system just fine.

That way you reward everybody, not just the lazy.

breyzipp
20-07-2017, 15:27
This table looks very random for me. The classes within the tiers are not comparable, for example Formula A and LMP3! Moreover, the R.S.01 is a GT not a Touring Car. Some classes such as Touring Cars and RX are splitted because of the lack of other classes. Historic championships are mixed with modern unlike in PC1, so it seems that the Lotus Series are invitationals but Group A is a main part. LMP1 and 2 together? Why is the Cayman part of the main career but the 911 (aka Porsche Supercup) not? What are Prototypes C? Aren't they track day cars and should invitationals?

Hope, that this is not the final result. It seems that they absolutley want to fit this static table, what isn't really necessary imo. Why the career mode cannot be more dynamic with more branches among each other? This looks neither realistic nor fun (yeah I always know what comes next).

Judging by what I marked in bold, I think you are reading the table the wrong way. :) It's best to look at the table horizontally as being 5 different motorsport branches. Then you start low in each one of them at tier 6 and you end with the strongest ones in tier 1.

* The first one (red outline) = obviously open wheeler. I'd put both karting and formula rookie as the real tier 6 preludes one for that line, then it continues as formula C, Renault 3.5, A, Indycar and X.

* The second one (yellow outline) focusses on prototypes, supercar lites (tier 2) are some of the tracktoys like that Radical and Caterham, then it continues with group C, LMP3, LMP1 & 2, endurance. Don't focus too much on LMP1 & 2 being together, you can probably pick which you want at the start and to complete all races you will have to do both anyway. Maybe the races in there are LMP1 & LMP2 multi-class already.

* The third one (green outline) = GT racing for which IMO the tier 1 Ginetta junior is the prelude. Then it continues with GT5, GT4 & Cayman Cup, Super Trofeo & Group5, then GT3 and Pirelli (probably multi-class including GTE). Nothing wrong IMO in using the Porsche Cayman GT4 Clubsport as a "Cup car", it's a beautiful car and a championship I'm for sure looking forward to.

* The 4th line (blue) = touring cars. It starts with the clio cup, then group A, the RS01 trophy (a bit weird this is not the Megane V6, not that it matters much), Touring cars and then another one for touring cars (I assume one of them is for vintage Touring-GT). Touring cars is also the least populated class in the game (while GT is most populated) so yeah content might be a bit thinner here than in other branches, which is why that RS01 pops up probably.

* The 5th and final line (purple) focusses on rallycross. I assume all 3 classes (historic TX, RX lites and supercars) are represented in these tiers, maybe with a final grand championship to finish it off.

Some other things you posted:
1) Historic championships are mixed with modern unlike in PC1 => With "mixed" I assume in career mode there are both championships for modern and historic cars? I like this, it spices up things a bit. But you can always skip them if you don't like them I assume.
2) What are Prototypes C? Aren't they track day cars and should invitationals? => I assume it's the group C prototypes so I expect some great fun retro Le Mans action there. :) In PC1 I think track day cars were called prototype C yes but those are now in the Sportscar Lites.

But I can understand your point of view, I think all 5 motorsport branches maybe have been "forced" a bit into this 6 tier structure. I think both Formula racing and GT racing could have easily had a few more tiers whereas rallycross and touring could be a bit lower. It could have looked a bit more clear if done that way but alas, it is what it is.

I want to start out my career in GT racing and will do it like this :
Ginetta Junior => GT5 => GT4 => Cayman Cup => Super Trofeo => etc.

For me Karting is the start of open wheelers so once I get to the point of open wheelers I will start that branch like this :
Kart One => Formula Rookie => Formula C => Renault 3.5 => etc

In the end it's also just career mode, if you plan to race about everything in the game anyway then I don't really think it matters how it's all connected via branches and unlock-able content. I just hope track diversity is a bit better in career than it was in PC1 since over there I feel I visited places like Donington and Oulton Park a bit too much while tracks like ZIC, Willow Springs or even Cadwell in the UK were barely used.

Schnizz58
20-07-2017, 15:43
The self-delusion methodology didn't quite work through pc1 career : - D

I was just making the observation that locking, not just some but a lot of stuff in a video game that must be dealt with through the very enjoyment of playing, is or should never be seen from a negative perspective, and work along with any other system just fine.

That way you reward everybody, not just the lazy.
Since you can't race for a team until you earn a contract from them, isn't that a form of locking? I enjoyed the career mode in PC1 much more than (say) Forza because it seemed much more realistic. How many professional race car drivers are out there spending their own money buying new turbos for their team's car?

breyzipp
20-07-2017, 15:58
^^ Hmm I think there are 2 different things :

1) You could lock content behind races and career progression. For example the game could force you to start in Tier 6 in a kart. Once you have completed (with or without podium finish), successive tiers could be unlocked one at a time.

2) You could also lock content behind a credit/money system in the game. For example in GT6 you start with a weak low tier road car, you start earning money to upgrade this car and buy new cars which can then be used in new championships.

I'm personally a big fan of both these kinds of unlockable singleplayer content. I enjoyed it a lot in GT6, all Forza's on XBox One and Dirt 4.

However given the nature of Project CARS 2, there is absolutely no place whatsoever for a credit/money system in the game, period. But we have that situation so all good there. I also think for multiplayer / esports all cars should be immediately available in the game from the start for multiplayer and quick races, which is also the case in Project CARS 2. However, for singleplayer career I would much rather have seen the entire career schedule being locked without the 3 starter championships in Tier 6. This does not bother players who don't care about career at all, but it gives those that have an interest in career a better sense of progression.

So if career stays as it is shown in that video, I will just "pretend" that everything from tier 5 and up is locked, and I will follow my branches in motorsport correctly from tier to tier, starting in the karts. I hope though that once you finish a career segment (finished ALL championships behind it since there are often more than one) then it gets marked on that overview screen as well (golden circle around it or something if you got all golden trophies from it, silver and bronze for the other podium places). That also gives a good indication of progression (on top of unlocking content, you would also see "completed" content being marked). Dirt 4 (and many other games, even Assetto Corsa) also uses a similar way of marking career completion.

Again, it is what it is. Even with half the tiers already unlocked (unfortunately), I'm sure the career purists among us will find their way. ;)

Schnizz58
20-07-2017, 16:03
1) You could lock content behind races and career progression. For example the game could force you to start in Tier 6 in a kart. Once you have completed (with or without podium finish), successive tiers could be unlocked one at a time.
With the exception of forcing you to start in a kart (which I'm thankful the designers didn't opt to do) isn't this what we have?

breyzipp
20-07-2017, 16:06
With the exception of forcing you to start in a kart (which I'm thankful the designers didn't opt to do) isn't this what we have?

Well if you add an extra option before those 2 I previously mentioned...

0) everything is available from the start (this was Project CARS 1 way btw)


Then PCARS 2 will be the middle of the road between option 0) and option 1). So we'd have 0.5) :P

Schnizz58
20-07-2017, 16:09
The point I'm making is that everything is not available from the start. You can start in any tier but you have to earn your way up the ladder from there.

Mattze
20-07-2017, 21:24
Judging by what I marked in bold, I think you are reading the table the wrong way. :) It's best to look at the table horizontally as being 5 different motorsport branches. Then you start low in each one of them at tier 6 and you end with the strongest ones in tier 1.

* The first one (red outline) = obviously open wheeler. I'd put both karting and formula rookie as the real tier 6 preludes one for that line, then it continues as formula C, Renault 3.5, A, Indycar and X.

* The second one (yellow outline) focusses on prototypes, supercar lites (tier 2) are some of the tracktoys like that Radical and Caterham, then it continues with group C, LMP3, LMP1 & 2, endurance. Don't focus too much on LMP1 & 2 being together, you can probably pick which you want at the start and to complete all races you will have to do both anyway. Maybe the races in there are LMP1 & LMP2 multi-class already.

* The third one (green outline) = GT racing for which IMO the tier 1 Ginetta junior is the prelude. Then it continues with GT5, GT4 & Cayman Cup, Super Trofeo & Group5, then GT3 and Pirelli (probably multi-class including GTE). Nothing wrong IMO in using the Porsche Cayman GT4 Clubsport as a "Cup car", it's a beautiful car and a championship I'm for sure looking forward to.

* The 4th line (blue) = touring cars. It starts with the clio cup, then group A, the RS01 trophy (a bit weird this is not the Megane V6, not that it matters much), Touring cars and then another one for touring cars (I assume one of them is for vintage Touring-GT). Touring cars is also the least populated class in the game (while GT is most populated) so yeah content might be a bit thinner here than in other branches, which is why that RS01 pops up probably.

* The 5th and final line (purple) focusses on rallycross. I assume all 3 classes (historic TX, RX lites and supercars) are represented in these tiers, maybe with a final grand championship to finish it off.

Some other things you posted:
1) Historic championships are mixed with modern unlike in PC1 => With "mixed" I assume in career mode there are both championships for modern and historic cars? I like this, it spices up things a bit. But you can always skip them if you don't like them I assume.
2) What are Prototypes C? Aren't they track day cars and should invitationals? => I assume it's the group C prototypes so I expect some great fun retro Le Mans action there. :) In PC1 I think track day cars were called prototype C yes but those are now in the Sportscar Lites.

But I can understand your point of view, I think all 5 motorsport branches maybe have been "forced" a bit into this 6 tier structure. I think both Formula racing and GT racing could have easily had a few more tiers whereas rallycross and touring could be a bit lower. It could have looked a bit more clear if done that way but alas, it is what it is.

I want to start out my career in GT racing and will do it like this :
Ginetta Junior => GT5 => GT4 => Cayman Cup => Super Trofeo => etc.

For me Karting is the start of open wheelers so once I get to the point of open wheelers I will start that branch like this :
Kart One => Formula Rookie => Formula C => Renault 3.5 => etc

In the end it's also just career mode, if you plan to race about everything in the game anyway then I don't really think it matters how it's all connected via branches and unlock-able content. I just hope track diversity is a bit better in career than it was in PC1 since over there I feel I visited places like Donington and Oulton Park a bit too much while tracks like ZIC, Willow Springs or even Cadwell in the UK were barely used.

You argue some good points, but these don't solve the problem imo. From all that I have seen and heard so far, the career mode doesn't feel like a career in real-life. It seems like a completly static plan which also contains some weird decisions to obscure obvious deficits. I'm disappointed because there is so much potential which isn't used due to narrow-minded thinking.

I have following in mind. Starting in a class of your choice, you work your way up the ladder they have shown. You can choose various invitationals over time to get some variety. But each decision should influences your way. You drive Formula Renault in your main career and winning a Group C invitational? Okay, you receive a contract of a LMP2 team in the next season. There are so many historic and side classes in the game to vary your way. And if you rarely see the finish, okay, maybe this is the wrong class for you. Your contract won't be extended and you receive only offers of different branches or lower tiers (so nobody can complain about too less incentive).

Another thing are the historic championships in main career. Yeah, Lewis Hamilton had to overcome the Lotus 98T before he gets a cockpit for McLaren :rolleyes: I think the more realistic way would be to make them invitational only (but why not with many races over a full season). It would deal with the issue in a more realstic way without restricting the fun. Even more, your main career isn't artifically expanded.

BTW, same argument for the stretched Rallycross and Touring Car championships. Why not only 5 or 4 Tiers? That leads me to another question. Why are RX splitted in national and international but GT3 not eg? Let beginners of the GT3 class start in national series for the first season. In the second season, maybe they switch to another class or drive european and world GT3 championships. But please, not all in one season with two races for each championship. I will never understand this design choice in PC1.

You see there are so many options to create a dynamically and lively career mode. It's sad to see how SMS is neglecting the career in the whole series.


Edit: All these thesis based on the shown material so far. If these are only fillers, I said nothing.

snipeme77
20-07-2017, 21:30
^^ Hmm I think there are 2 different things :

1) You could lock content behind races and career progression. For example the game could force you to start in Tier 6 in a kart. Once you have completed (with or without podium finish), successive tiers could be unlocked one at a time.

2) You could also lock content behind a credit/money system in the game. For example in GT6 you start with a weak low tier road car, you start earning money to upgrade this car and buy new cars which can then be used in new championships.

I'm personally a big fan of both these kinds of unlockable singleplayer content. I enjoyed it a lot in GT6, all Forza's on XBox One and Dirt 4.

However given the nature of Project CARS 2, there is absolutely no place whatsoever for a credit/money system in the game, period. But we have that situation so all good there. I also think for multiplayer / esports all cars should be immediately available in the game from the start for multiplayer and quick races, which is also the case in Project CARS 2. However, for singleplayer career I would much rather have seen the entire career schedule being locked without the 3 starter championships in Tier 6. This does not bother players who don't care about career at all, but it gives those that have an interest in career a better sense of progression.

So if career stays as it is shown in that video, I will just "pretend" that everything from tier 5 and up is locked, and I will follow my branches in motorsport correctly from tier to tier, starting in the karts. I hope though that once you finish a career segment (finished ALL championships behind it since there are often more than one) then it gets marked on that overview screen as well (golden circle around it or something if you got all golden trophies from it, silver and bronze for the other podium places). That also gives a good indication of progression (on top of unlocking content, you would also see "completed" content being marked). Dirt 4 (and many other games, even Assetto Corsa) also uses a similar way of marking career completion.

Again, it is what it is. Even with half the tiers already unlocked (unfortunately), I'm sure the career purists among us will find their way. ;)


Or you could have a Heavy Rain styled storyline where you performance behind the wheel and your decisions behind the desk effect the story and thus lock and unlock new opportunities.

I wish SMS had a idea pitching portion of the forum. Would love a story driven Pcars spin off title.

honespc
21-07-2017, 06:44
The point I'm making is that everything is not available from the startJust in terms of contracts and teams, not cars which are all available. That was the point.

CassielLight
21-07-2017, 07:34
^What you refer to as tedious stuff in games like Gran Turismo, was precisely what others found so enjoyable, like beginning by buying a used Nissan Primera or a Supra turbo; entering a race; realizing your car not powerful enough; do some races; install your first turbo; tyres..., etc a climbing process.

It's the only aspect I don't like about project cars. The vision of "here, have everything at your disposal from the beginning because I have no time to unlock because I have a hard job and wife and kids and I have no time and blahblah I'm a lazy ****"..., your concern.

I think Project Cars could have benefited from a rewarding system for those who play the game more and put a effort into it, such as locked content, in other words cars that you have to win by winning or achieving things

I had no issue with "start in low-end car, and work your way up." For the record, all my toons on PCARS started in Kart One. I also took no issue with upgrading parts: obviously, better gear means better times. That's not tedium: there's a point to that, and it's rewarding.

Where I took issue, was having to race, and re-race, and re-re-re-race, the license exams, which (in most iterations) are mandatory, and which (on more than one iteration) require near-perfection just to get a passing score. That's frustrating, not rewarding. When it's a RELIEF, not a REWARD, to finish a section of a video game, I must respectfully contend that's an error of the medium.

I also took issue with having to either a, spend quality time doing lots of trial-and-error mucking about in the suspension settings menu; or b, looking around online to find tip sheets to tame all the extra hardware. Is this racing, or is it a research project? Again, arguably an error of the medium.

Call me lazy if you like, but if I'm playing a racing game, I'd rather be, you know, RACING. Not spending time in-game on test session guesswork every time I get a new car, and DEFINITELY not exiting the game to search the internet for setup sheets.

hkraft300
21-07-2017, 08:29
Is this racing, or is it a research project? Again, arguably an error of the medium.

Call me lazy if you like, but if I'm playing a racing game, I'd rather be, you know, RACING. Not spending time in-game on test session guesswork every time I get a new car...

There's nothing in sim racing stopping you from just racing.
But if you want to compete in sim racing (or Real racing for that matter) at the top levels, you want to do the research to maximise every tool at your disposal. Find every increment of performance.

Even the most basic league race to be competitive you need at least practice ND familiarity of a car and track. Watch track guides, study and practice to find the best line, research and test setups to maximise the cars performance, practice pit stops and work out your strategy...
Leave no stone unturned.
Part and parcel.
In saying that, nothing stopping you being competitive on default setups online. I just lack the talent :)

honespc
21-07-2017, 12:10
Call me lazy if you like, but if I'm playing a racing game, I'd rather be, you know, RACING. Not spending time in-game on test session guesswork every time I get a new car, and DEFINITELY not exiting the game to search the internet for setup sheets.You can go racing perfectly fine after installing stuff/tunning your car. Any of these two are far from stealing someone's thunder or making things tedious but pretty much the opposite, by adding a whole lot to the experience and also refining it.

CassielLight
21-07-2017, 12:36
@hkraft I wasn't even talking about online: that's how Gran Turismo plays OFFLINE in the higher leagues, and why I've pretty much sworn off the series.

CassielLight
21-07-2017, 13:44
@honespc Um, no. Just slapping parts on does NOT suffice in Gran Turismo.

I was playing GT5, and was in one race where I had a Bugatti...Veyon, I think it was?, maxed out on parts, putting down something over 1200 HP, I think. And I just couldn't get that thing to handle predictably. At all. I'd correct for oversteer on entry, only to end up with understeer on exit; trying to correct that counterintuitively gave me global understeer; correcting for that gave me understeer on entry, with oversteer on exit, and so on. After three hours plus of fiddling with, eventually, every setting on the suspension kit, and several different gearing setups, and STILL not being able to get that Bugatti around an empty Brickyard without spinning around like a top, I finally threw in the towel. At that point, I couldn't tell if Polyphony wanted GT5 to be a game, or an automotive engineering textbook.

And that was the very last time I ever played a Gran Turismo game. I didn't even bother with GT6, even after it hit the discount rack, and GT Sport is a nonstarter for me. Perspective: this was after being there on launch day for GT 2, 3, 4, and 5.

So, yeah...I just recoil at pointless/repetitive minutia in video games generally. I despise "quests" (broadly speaking) that have narrow success conditions which require either grinding, excessive trial and error, or an out-of-game lookup, to complete. I don't care if it's forcing me to run test laps until I'm bored off my exhaust manifold, or making me traipse ten miles through the boondocks to find that one teensy-weensy mountain pass I need to reach the objective that started out ten feet in front of me (Dragon Age: Inquisition, I'm looking at you). If it's frustrating, and not fun, it's an error of the medium.

I'm old enough to remember when there was no internet, and forcing the user to simply guess blindly at a solution, was considered poor game design. One writer for one of COMPUTE!'s books in the mid-1980s put it so memorably that I remember it to this day: If the only way to summon a genie is to kiss a coconut, then make sure you give the player a clue to do that!

Designers don't bother with that nowadays, much to the industry's detriment. Ah, but listen to my mouth run.

Schnizz58
21-07-2017, 14:25
Just in terms of contracts and teams, not cars which are all available. That was the point.
The only cars that are available are the ones run by the teams for which you have contract offers. You can't race an Aston Martin GT3 unless you have been offered a contract from a team that runs Aston Martin GT3s.

The point that I'm making is that this constitutes a form of locking to provide incentive for the player to climb the ladder and "unlock" other cars. Your contention was that the game doesn't offer this incentive but in fact it does. And it does it in a more realistic way in the form of contract offers instead of forcing the driver to go out and buy his own cars and upgrades.

Besides all that, we already have games that work the way you're describing. We don't need another one. PCars is trying to fill a different niche.

banner77amc
21-07-2017, 18:05
I wonder is Ben Collins still going to encourage me through my career? (mentor in my ear)

Konan
21-07-2017, 22:56
I wonder is Ben Collins still going to encourage me through my career? (mentor in my ear)

Yes...along with a spotter (depending on what class you race in)

Trippul G
21-07-2017, 23:16
I'm wondering if the whole fake social media thing is going to be included again? Between them and the emails that I'd get from my team, it seemed like no one was capable of counting higher than 3...lol

Seemed no matter how many races in a row I'd *actually* won, I'd constantly be congratulated for winning 3 in a row... o_O

CassielLight
21-07-2017, 23:29
Yes...along with a spotter (depending on what class you race in)

PLEASE tell me you gave him more material to work with this time? E.g., when it starts raining, I REALLY would have liked to hear something like, "Okay, we've got wets ready for you when you want to come in."

RacingAtHome
21-07-2017, 23:35
PLEASE tell me you gave him more material to work with this time? E.g., when it starts raining, I REALLY would have liked to hear something like, "Okay, we've got wets ready for you when you want to come in."

Something like that would only work when you select wets and I assume your strategy wouldn't have had wets in it and you'd only hear that line in pitlane so it would be pretty useless.

Konan
21-07-2017, 23:37
All i know (since i can't test the game and don't know exactly what they say) is that it's a major improvement from Pcars1...

hkraft300
22-07-2017, 00:33
@hkraft I wasn't even talking about online: that's how Gran Turismo plays OFFLINE in the higher leagues, and why I've pretty much sworn off the series.

That's a compliment PD doesn't deserve :glee:




I was playing GT5, and was in one race where I had a Bugatti...Veyon, I think it was?, maxed out on parts, putting down something over 1200 HP, I think. And I just couldn't get that thing to handle predictably. At all.


The older part is your problem :rolleyes:
I played it and GT6. Which was same as GT5 but ruined by Vision GT.

Having played pc1 though, you'll notice the difference in tuning, thereby making it rewarding.

CassielLight
22-07-2017, 04:28
Something like that would only work when you select wets and I assume your strategy wouldn't have had wets in it and you'd only hear that line in pitlane so it would be pretty useless.

Um, no...

When the weather is transitioning to wet, "Current Weather" does not change over until the "Light Rain" (or whatever is incoming) fully takes hold. I have my tires "based on weather," and if you pit in too early--i.e., before it's "officially" raining--your crew will give you a dry set. And editing it on the way in is a global edit for the setting. So, I either have to pause and manually eyeball the conditions each time I enter Sector 3, or make the edit and hope I don't have a senior moment and end up starting my next session on the wrong tires. That particular "wets ready" callout would be most appreciated in that circumstance, no?

honespc
22-07-2017, 07:08
The only cars that are available are the ones run by the teams for which you have contract offers. You can't race an Aston Martin GT3 unless you have been offered a contract from a team that runs Aston Martin GT3s.

The point that I'm making is that this constitutes a form of locking to provide incentive for the player to climb the ladder and "unlock" other cars. Your contention was that the game doesn't offer this incentive but in fact it does. And it does it in a more realistic way in the form of contract offers instead of forcing the driver to go out and buy his own cars and upgrades.
I have all cars available out of career mode. I might not be able to run the Aston in career until I sign a contract, but I can right away online, practice, weekend race, etc.

There's no actual car lock anywhere.

Konan
22-07-2017, 07:22
I have all cars available out of career mode. I might not be able to run the Aston in career until I sign a contract

Sooo...it is actually locked until you get there...which you have to do so through your achievements...different approach,same outcome...

honespc
22-07-2017, 08:49
Nice try

hkraft300
22-07-2017, 09:48
There's no actual car lock anywhere.

Thank you SMS for that.

Schnizz58
22-07-2017, 13:22
I might not be able to run the Aston in career until I sign a contract, but I can right away online, practice, weekend race, etc.
The discussion here is about career mode, not QRW, online, etc.


There's no actual car lock anywhere.
As has already been demonstrated, effectively there is due to the contract offers.

breyzipp
22-07-2017, 13:36
All i know (since i can't test the game and don't know exactly what they say) is that it's a major improvement from Pcars1...

I suppose these improvements are mostly more voice lines? I think one of the new ones I already heard in videos was the warning for nightfall and to pick out new visual queues for braking points, I liked that one. Good stuff!

However, what I don't like at all about the radio messages is the high pitch / high tone effects filter applied over it. I understand SMS wants to filter out the deep tones and keep the high pitch tones to mimick old school style radio communication but honestly in modern day telecommunication the quality of the spoken voice is much better than what SMS is trying to achieve in PCARS 2.

For example, below is a short clip of a ""great job" sent from the Mercedes engineer to Bottas last weekend at Silverstone. The quality of that audio message is way higher than what SMS is mimicking in PCARS2. So I hope all these messages get improved still because I actually find the high pitch Ben Collins messages a bit disturbing because of this reason (it annoyed me in PCARS 1 as well).

https://streamable.com/daxz9

Also funny how Bottas says "thanks" to his race engineer in that video. :P

wicken
22-07-2017, 20:17
We now know that instead of having Historic Goals like in PC1, we will get Lifetime Goals. There are 7 of them, and they replicate real world motorsport achievements.

"Dominate the same championship year-on-year, win three blue riband events on the motorsport calendar such as the Indy 500 and Le Mans 24 Hours, become a factory driver for elite brands such as Ferrari and Porsche, or seal immortality with wins in three different motorsport disciplines."

banner77amc
24-07-2017, 12:16
I do like that there is an option to become a factory driver... It was one thing I felt was missing from the first career mode.

snipeme77
24-07-2017, 15:10
We now know that instead of having Historic Goals like in PC1, we will get Lifetime Goals. There are 7 of them, and they replicate real world motorsport achievements.

"Dominate the same championship year-on-year, win three blue riband events on the motorsport calendar such as the Indy 500 and Le Mans 24 Hours, become a factory driver for elite brands such as Ferrari and Porsche, or seal immortality with wins in three different motorsport disciplines."


I really like the idea of the blue ribbon events, but my only complaint is it wants to complete 3 of 3. I wish it had more options.

For example, right now you need to win Monaco Grand Prix, Indy 500, 24 hours of LeMans

Why isn't the the following considered blue ribbon
24 hours of Daytona
the biggest races of the stock car calendar Daytona, and the Brickyard,
24 hours of Dubai,
Spa 24h

Note I left out the nurburg 24 hours I think that should be an achievement all on itself.

amazed
24-07-2017, 16:48
For example, right now you need to win Monaco Grand Prix, Indy 500, 24 hours of LeMans.

Surely this should be the "Over the Hill" achievement? ;)

RacingAtHome
24-07-2017, 19:05
I really like the idea of the blue ribbon events, but my only complaint is it wants to complete 3 of 3. I wish it had more options.

For example, right now you need to win Monaco Grand Prix, Indy 500, 24 hours of LeMans

Why isn't the the following considered blue ribbon
24 hours of Daytona
the biggest races of the stock car calendar Daytona, and the Brickyard,
24 hours of Dubai,
Spa 24h

Note I left out the nurburg 24 hours I think that should be an achievement all on itself.

There's a thing called the motorsport triple crown. It involves the Indy 500, 24h Le Mans and Monaco Grand Prix.

Trippul G
24-07-2017, 22:00
So looking through Steeljockey's career video, it looks like Formula A is in tier 3 (along with LMP3 and the RS01 Trophy), while it seems GT3 is in tier 2 and Indycar is up in tier 1. Does this all seem a bit screwy to anyone else besides me?

I thought FA = F1, which is supposed to be the pinnacle of open-wheel racing, and some would argue to be the pinnacle of motorsport, period. Even with older 2011-spec cars, I feel FA should be in the same tier as Indy, and certainly at least in the same tier as GT3, if not higher.

I suppose ultimately it doesn't matter much, as long as they're all in the game. Just seems like some curious design choices...I'd be curious to know the thought processes that went into this.

RacingAtHome
24-07-2017, 22:02
So looking through Steeljockey's career video, it looks like Formula A is in tier 3 (along with LMP3 and the RS01 Trophy), while it seems GT3 is in tier 2 and Indycar is up in tier 1. Does this all seem a bit screwy to anyone else besides me?

I thought FA = F1, which is supposed to be the pinnacle of open-wheel racing, and some would argue to be the pinnacle of motorsport, period. Even with older 2011-spec cars, I feel FA should be in the same tier as Indy, and certainly at least in the same tier as GT3, if not higher.

I suppose ultimately it doesn't matter much, as long as they're all in the game. Just seems like some curious design choices...I'd be curious to know the thought processes that went into this.

I'd say Formula X now replicates F1 more than Formula A. They did what they wanted. I'd have done it differently. Maybe put FX in the top tier and FA and IndyCar in Tier 2.

breyzipp
24-07-2017, 22:42
I'd say Formula X now replicates F1 more than Formula A. They did what they wanted. I'd have done it differently. Maybe put FX in the top tier and FA and IndyCar in Tier 2.

Yep, here is how I would do it, quickly drew something in Paint. :)

238988

comments :
* Karts in tier 1 (IMO karts should be the prereq. for open wheelers)
* The top horizontal line is from karts all the way to Formula X and IMO the main thread of the open wheelers career.
* An arrow between 2 championships means you need to complete the left one before you can start the right one. So both vintage formula are linked together. And both Indycar (modern) are linked together.
* I think there should be a main championship for Vintage Formula and Vintage Indycar as well, I'd go even as far as splitting vintage formula into 2 championships as I listed here.
* Since Indycar is such a big thing for PC2 (entire license) I wouldn't just leave it at 1 championship. Tier 5 is the normal Indycar Championship all in the US. Tier 6 is Indycar racing on the entire world (US + EU + Asia) :)
* Tier 6 is somewhat fantasy/future tier for open wheelers. Formula X is what Formula racing *could* be. Well Indycar world tour is also what IndyCar *could* be might it grow outside of the US. :)


Note - this is just for the open wheelers but it would be one of the biggest of the 5 motorsport branches I think (open wheelers, touring, GT, prototype, rallycross being the 5 main sections). Maybe GT would come close. Touring and Rallycross would be the shortest ones, certainly not spanning 6 tiers IMO.

Rallycross could be :
Tier 1 - 1 championship : RX lites
Tier 2 - 2 championships : RX supercars and vintage RX

I don't think we have much more for rallycross so stretching it out to 6 tiers is IMO just doing it for the sake of reaching 6 tiers. However, one thing you could do if you want to spice up RX a bit :
Tier 1 - 1 championship : RX lites
Tier 2 - 3 championships : RX GRC supercars (US tracks and cars only), RX WRX supercars (Euro tracks and cars only) and vintage RX
Tier 3 - 1 championship : RX supercars global tour (all tracks and cars)
I would then make RX GRC and RX WRX both a prereq. to unlock RX global tour.

Trippul G
24-07-2017, 23:10
@breyzipp I get what you're saying, but I think your outline and descriptions are a bit unnecessarily complicated due to how you're labeling the tier numbers. You're starting with low numbers and working your way up to higher tier numbers as you progress, while the game appears to be sticking to a similar format to what we saw in PCARS 1, where higher numbered tiers are "entry level", and you move up to lower-numbered tiers as you progress.

Personally, I feel like the second method makes the most sense, as it maintains consistency with categories such as GT5 -> GT4 -> GT3 signifying an upward progression in level of competition, required skill, and difficulty.

breyzipp
24-07-2017, 23:13
@breyzipp I get what you're saying, but I think your outline and descriptions are a bit unnecessarily complicated due to how you're labeling the tier numbers. You're starting with low numbers and working your way up to higher tier numbers as you progress, while the game appears to be sticking to a similar format to what we saw in PCARS 1, where higher numbered tiers are "entry level", and you move up to lower-numbered tiers as you progress.

Personally, I feel like the second method makes the most sense, as it maintains consistency with categories such as GT5 -> GT4 -> GT3 signifying an upward progression in level of competition, required skill, and difficulty.

Uh oops I messed that up indeed. Yeah Tier 1 can be the highest one (most right on the drawing) and tier 6 the starting one (most left on the drawing). Whichever way doesn't really matter IMO, what's in a name. :)

RacingAtHome
24-07-2017, 23:15
This is how I would have properly done it by car instead of Endurance etc.

Tier 1: Formula X, IndyCar World Series, LMP1
Tier 2: Formula A, IndyCar, NASCAR, LMP2, GTE, V8SC, RX Supercar International
Tier 3: Formula Renault 3.5, LMP3, GT3, TCR/Super2000, RS01 Series, RX Supercar Regional
Tier 4: Formula C, GT4, Megane Trophy, RX Lites International
Tier 5: Formula Rookie, GT5, RX Lites Regional
Tier 6: Ginetta Junior, Clio Cup
Tier 7: Karting

Keep the Historics to Invitationals and Manufacturer Events.

Trippul G
24-07-2017, 23:28
This is how I would have properly done it by car instead of Endurance etc.

Tier 1: Formula X, IndyCar World Series, LMP1
Tier 2: Formula A, IndyCar, NASCAR, LMP2, GTE, V8SC, RX Supercar International
Tier 3: Formula Renault 3.5, LMP3, GT3, TCR/Super2000, RS01 Series, RX Supercar Regional
Tier 4: Formula C, GT4, Megane Trophy, RX Lites International
Tier 5: Formula Rookie, GT5, RX Lites Regional
Tier 6: Ginetta Junior, Clio Cup
Tier 7: Karting

Keep the Historics to Invitationals and Manufacturer Events.

I agree and rather like that layout. Although I'm curious about V8SC and NASCAR...do we know that those are going to be available as actual career events requiring contracts? (As opposed to one-off or invitational events?) Doesn't seem to me like there's enough content for either of those series (at least not that I'm aware of) to warrant a full season?

CassielLight
25-07-2017, 06:30
I agree and rather like that layout. Although I'm curious about V8SC and NASCAR...do we know that those are going to be available as actual career events requiring contracts? (As opposed to one-off or invitational events?) Doesn't seem to me like there's enough content for either of those series (at least not that I'm aware of) to warrant a full season?

Oh, please, *not* NASCAR. I enjoy the series, and I'll defend it from naysayers all day long. But if you're a completist, that series would be a slog and a half in a multidisciplinary game, and then some. A slog and a three quarters? Maybe even a slog and seven eighths?

You figure 36 events, each of which would run 3 hours or so, is about 108 hours plus, assuming the user don't scale it. Perspective: that's double the length of the entire WEC series in PC1.

The Coca Cola 600, by itself, would be equivalent to a Tri-Nations 1000 event from PC1. And NASCAR doesn't race in the wet, so if the dynamic weather kicks in, would the red-flag portion be simulated, or waited out?

Don't get me wrong: NASCAR gets a lot of things right in real life, and it's arguably the most quintessentially American racing series. And note that that's coming from a guy who practically lives just up the street from where they run the St. Pete GP. But AS GAME, NASCAR is arguably a bit much to be featuring in a multidisciplinary title. Even its "playoff" format--an innovation for motor sports which may well be as American as it gets--is something that may not integrate well with all the other formats.

Again, I do appreciate NASCAR for what it is. Stock car racing is about as American as racing gets, and maybe I'm waving Old Glory a bit too much in saying it would be more than a little nifty to see stock car racing get its due in this series.

HOWEVER, I'm not sure if NASCAR, or even a facsimile of it, with all of its quirks--lots of ovals, elimination playoffs, grueling schedule, etc.--fit the format, so to speak, for Project CARS.

banner77amc
25-07-2017, 11:50
Yep, here is how I would do it, quickly drew something in Paint. :)

238988

comments :
* Karts in tier 1 (IMO karts should be the prereq. for open wheelers)
* The top horizontal line is from karts all the way to Formula X and IMO the main thread of the open wheelers career.
* An arrow between 2 championships means you need to complete the left one before you can start the right one. So both vintage formula are linked together. And both Indycar (modern) are linked together.
* I think there should be a main championship for Vintage Formula and Vintage Indycar as well, I'd go even as far as splitting vintage formula into 2 championships as I listed here.
* Since Indycar is such a big thing for PC2 (entire license) I wouldn't just leave it at 1 championship. Tier 5 is the normal Indycar Championship all in the US. Tier 6 is Indycar racing on the entire world (US + EU + Asia) :)
* Tier 6 is somewhat fantasy/future tier for open wheelers. Formula X is what Formula racing *could* be. Well Indycar world tour is also what IndyCar *could* be might it grow outside of the US. :)


Note - this is just for the open wheelers but it would be one of the biggest of the 5 motorsport branches I think (open wheelers, touring, GT, prototype, rallycross being the 5 main sections). Maybe GT would come close. Touring and Rallycross would be the shortest ones, certainly not spanning 6 tiers IMO.

Rallycross could be :
Tier 1 - 1 championship : RX lites
Tier 2 - 2 championships : RX supercars and vintage RX

I don't think we have much more for rallycross so stretching it out to 6 tiers is IMO just doing it for the sake of reaching 6 tiers. However, one thing you could do if you want to spice up RX a bit :
Tier 1 - 1 championship : RX lites
Tier 2 - 3 championships : RX GRC supercars (US tracks and cars only), RX WRX supercars (Euro tracks and cars only) and vintage RX
Tier 3 - 1 championship : RX supercars global tour (all tracks and cars)
I would then make RX GRC and RX WRX both a prereq. to unlock RX global tour.

I'm already sad about MSPaint going away... great tribute to it there Zipp

cxMilk
25-07-2017, 17:50
I know this is a few days old now and off topic, but only just saw it today.


@honespc Um, no. Just slapping parts on does NOT suffice in Gran Turismo.

I was playing GT5, and was in one race where I had a Bugatti...Veyon, I think it was?

I'd say that was your problem right there.


I'm old enough to remember when there was no internet, and forcing the user to simply guess blindly at a solution, was considered poor game design. One writer for one of COMPUTE!'s books in the mid-1980s put it so memorably that I remember it to this day: If the only way to summon a genie is to kiss a coconut, then make sure you give the player a clue to do that!

Designers don't bother with that nowadays, much to the industry's detriment. Ah, but listen to my mouth run.
Seriously? Before internet, that's what games were all about. Obfuscate the heck out of everything. PC games were especially notorious; built around the notion of throwing the player out in the wild with zero help from anyone or anything. Players would swap rumored hints and/or untested strategies because none of us had a freakin' clue what to do in anything. Don't know what games you're playing nowadays that are doing as you claim, but in my experience, hand-holding has been the name of the game for the past 10-15 years.

/offtopic


WRT career. I'm curious if tier unlocks are solely based on previous season championship win or if it's a little more real to life where a top three could net you a advancement. I'm assuming season win only. Don't think I saw this answered as of yet, but it's possible it was and I glossed over it.

Mattze
25-07-2017, 18:26
WRT career. I'm curious if tier unlocks are solely based on previous season championship win or if it's a little more real to life where a top three could net you a advancement. I'm assuming season win only. Don't think I saw this answered as of yet, but it's possible it was and I glossed over it.

WORD! A designing failure which crashed the career mode in PC1 completely imo. Hope this has changed otherwise the career in PC2 has died for me.

CassielLight
31-07-2017, 03:55
I know this is a few days old now and off topic, but only just saw it today.



I'd say that was your problem right there.


Seriously? Before internet, that's what games were all about. Obfuscate the heck out of everything. PC games were especially notorious; built around the notion of throwing the player out in the wild with zero help from anyone or anything. Players would swap rumored hints and/or untested strategies because none of us had a freakin' clue what to do in anything. Don't know what games you're playing nowadays that are doing as you claim, but in my experience, hand-holding has been the name of the game for the past 10-15 years.

/offtopic


WRT career. I'm curious if tier unlocks are solely based on previous season championship win or if it's a little more real to life where a top three could net you a advancement. I'm assuming season win only. Don't think I saw this answered as of yet, but it's possible it was and I glossed over it.

Going to betray my age ever so slightly, and say that my first console was a Tandy TV Scoreboard around age 8 or so, and my first computer was a Commodore VIC 20, when I was about 11. Went from Commodores straight to consoles, and generally use PC's for just the casual stuff. If I have to ask what the system recommendations are, it probably won't run, KWIMJB?

And in those days, on the Commodores at least, the documentation was so voluminous that it was sometimes part of the copy protection (see, e.g., "Mean Streets" by Access, which used a sort-of Ottendorf Cipher: what's the Xth word in Section Y on page Z?) Heck, there were some games that shipped with honest-to-goodness novellas: "Weird Dreams" was one, and then, of course, there was Robert Holdstock's "The Dark Wheel" as a pack-in with the original "Elite."

As for hints: in the Infocom version of "Hitchhiker's Guide," when you hitch a ride, you're in "Dark." It tells you, "You can see nothing, hear nothing, smell nothing, feel nothing, taste nothing, and you don't even know who you are." Eventually, after you Wait a few turns, something will change, which you might miss if you're feeling impatient. And if you keep Waiting, the game eventually says, "When, oh when, will you come to your senses and solve this puzzle?" At which point, you read the text again, you see what you missed, you groan, you solve it, and on with the game you go.

Back in the early days of the industry--this is late 1970's to roughly mid 1980's I'm talking about--everything you needed to know was either self-evident, discoverable, or explained, and games mostly boiled down to execution and memory. There wasn't much room in-game for exposition or narration: why exactly WAS Pac-Man so hungry? Why WAS Q*Bert hopping around on a pyramid floating in...where was it? Why WERE you trying to destroy the Dark Tower in "Stealth"? And so on.

And with the limited RAM in those days--the Commodore 64 meant 64K, and 25K was in ROM--every "Easter egg" came at the expense of something else. And when you lost, you knew why. The idea that a single video game's strategy guide might one day be as thick as a small city's phone book, was flat-out unthinkable.

Now contrast this with...let me pick on Dragon Age Inquisition because this was a recent sore spot. Exalted Plains, new to the area, trying to go northeast to do part of Cassandra's quest. Okay, mountains, mountains, where's the freaking pass?! Oh, great, shore line, just around this outcropping... nope, sorry Charlie, water's too deep, and you're not allowed to swim because we said so. :confused: Well, look again from the south side, looks like a way I can climb up these rocks here...nope, sorry Charlie, there's an invisible wall up there, and you can't go that way because we said so. :mad:

And with no in-game help available--no NPC's to ask for directions, and no equivalent of Skyrim's "Clairvoyance"--I had no recourse beyond "The Four Evil G's." (I.e., Grinding, Guesswork, Guidebook, or Google.) I either have to a, temporarily leave the game, and search for a solution outside it, or b, spend hours galavanting around in circles hoping to stumble onto that one teensy weensy passageway I need to find in order to continue.

One of those ruins immersion, the other one ruins the fun: errors of the medium, both, I respectfully contend.

Is that what a lot of titles do these days? Yes, but--heavy emphasis here--JUST BECAUSE IT'S A WIDESPREAD PRACTICE, DOES NOT MEAN IT IS A GOOD PRACTICE.

Road To The Show can be as easy or as hard as you want it to be: it's all about execution, and the user has the freedom to set the bar as low or as high as they like. You don't need to Google anything, you just have to play good baseball. No evil G's: good design. Skyrim has user-selectable difficulty settings, multiple ways to resolve most situations, and enough ways to get help in-game that the Evil G's are, if not banished, at least infrequent. Good design.

And, coming back home, Project CARS lets you start where you want, set the difficulty and realism as you see fit, and leaves you free to focus on racing, if that's all you're interested in. If you want to get under the hood, you can, but--hey, Yamauchi-sama, are you taking notes?--you're not FORCED to do any of that as a prerequisite. It's all right there, so it's ready for you when you want to spread your wings, BUT IT'S OPTIONAL. The user gets to have a say. Good design.

Ultimately, I think it comes down to how much game developers trust their players. SMS evidently trusts its Career players completely. And in the current state of the industry, that may very well be "slighty mad"--but I think the mode is that much better for it as a result.