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View Full Version : Recreating Long Beach - SMS vs Turn 10



breyzipp
12-05-2017, 20:11
When I was watching the Long Beach Jaguar XJR9 side-by-side comparison between FM6 and PCARS2 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EVLKeFoYl2E) I couldn't help but notice some differences in visual details around the track. I got curious to see which developer studio got it right and who was wrong. I grabbed a 2017 Long Beach on-board video from YouTube and initially thought Turn 10 made a lot of errors. But realizing their track initially appeared in FM5 in 2014 I decided to compare it with a Long Beach video from 2013.

What you see below is various screenshots of 3 Long Beach videos in total :
- top left: real life 2013 (the year which T10 most likely used as a reference for the track in FM5 & FM6) (reference video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hvWhnSjYkzk))
- top right: real life 2016 (the year which SMS most likely used as a reference for the track in PCARS2) (reference video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfrBIDf7cnA))
- bottom center: combined video of Turn 10 version in FM6 (left) and SMS version in PCARS2 (right) (reference video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EVLKeFoYl2E))



1 - The start finish bridge. Notice how it has different art in 2013 compared to 2016, both SMS and T10 did a great job in recreating the art for the bridge in their time.
2 - Notice the street lights over the circuit in the distance and even the red Toyota bridge further in the distance. Great detail.
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3 - Notice the big Toyota banner in front of the building, it was there in 2013 and gone in 2016. Also notice the great accurate detail of 2016 in PCARS 2 on those banners and tyre sections of the wall.
4 - There are 2 trees in 2013 and only 1 tree left in 2016. :)
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5 - Yellow rectangular "curbstones" in 2013 and red+white pyramid ones in 2016. Both studios did a great job here.
6 - Notice the different advertising on the back wall between 2013 and 2016 and how again each studio did a great job again.
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7 - Overhanging Verizon banner in 2016, not so in 2013.
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8 - When advertising is not censured or not left out due to licencing then both studios have it spot on.
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9 - Notice the accurate detail of the braking distance sign (the 200) and in 2016 the extra orange colour below it and the red/yellow striped thingy.
10 - Notice the extra trees in 2013 and the lack of those same trees in 2016.
237733



11 - Notice those 2 trees on the side on how the left one is bent, amazing how T10 recreated this in FM where SMS seems to have missed some accuracy here.
12 - Same for the patch of 3 trees on the right side, T10 reproduced this with better accuracy than SMS.
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I think in the end I have to give my kudos to both studios for some incredible accuracy on the visuals of this track, even more so when you realise that Long Beach is a very complex track for graphics artists with so much detail happening next to the track (compared to for example the Nordschliefe or Red Bull Ring where it's mostly just trees). This is the first time I take so much time to compare a real life track with an in-game track. T10 did an outstanding job with recreating the 2013 Long Beach in their virtual world and SMS again did an outstanding job with the 2016 version. I'll have to give an extra kudos for the accuracy of the trees to Turn 10 though, not just those from points 11 & 12 but at various places in the videos I noticed how spot-on they are. Almost the same for SMS though since their trees were most of the time spot-on as well (this 11 & 12 is the only error I found). And one other big kudos to SMS as well for having this level of detail in a complete dynamic weather environment with day/night cycles and different seasons. In FM6 I could only experience Long Beach as a "static" map with a sunny daytime. In PCARS 2 the track truly comes to life with the full day and night cycles as you can see in this video with a rapid time advancement (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=57e8jLjfC3k) and it looks absolutely gorgeous at night with the street lights on and decorative lights of the buildings around the circuit.



Warning!!! The following part is ment to be funny!!!

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Ooh, there is another advertising banner SMS seems to have failed to reproduce accurately. I'm sure each time I see those burgers advertised in PCARS 2 I'll have to giggle. ;) ;) ;)

FS7
12-05-2017, 20:22
And one other big kudos to SMS as well for having this level of detail in a complete dynamic weather environment with day/night cycles and different seasons.
This is the most important part imo. Both T10 & SMS did a great job with visuals but the fact that PCars2 version has dynamic weather & time of day puts it above the FM6 version.

RacingAtHome
12-05-2017, 20:25
Can't disagree on this at all. Great analysis.

breyzipp
12-05-2017, 20:29
The screenshots got reduced in size, probably due to the width. :( I uploaded them to dropbox as well, trying something to add the bigger screenshots.

Mahjik
12-05-2017, 20:31
Well, SMS is not going to put a Forza banner up in their sim.

breyzipp
12-05-2017, 20:41
Well, SMS is not going to put a Forza banner up in their sim.

Why so serious? :crushed: Didn't you see my smileys? :D

breyzipp
12-05-2017, 20:43
This is the most important part imo. Both T10 & SMS did a great job with visuals but the fact that PCars2 version has dynamic weather & time of day puts it above the FM6 version.

I absolutely agree with this! Gran Turismo 5 or 6 was my first racing game with dynamic weather and day/night cycles and once you have experienced that, IMO there is no way back to static maps. I think the seasons and livetrack 3.0 is just another step up that ladder, when we get used to that, there is no way back either. :)

Mahjik
12-05-2017, 20:48
Why so serious? :crushed: Didn't you see my smileys? :D

Since the smileys were after the second comment around the burgers, it's hard to understand from the internet the smileys are covering the entire comment versus the last part.

breyzipp
12-05-2017, 21:19
Since the smileys were after the second comment around the burgers, it's hard to understand from the internet the smileys are covering the entire comment versus the last part.

Very well, I made it id... fail safe now. :p

Got the images increased in size too by making them more narrow. How do I get rid of the "attached thumbnails"?

hkraft300
12-05-2017, 23:05
Nice breyzipp. Well done.


Well, SMS is not going to put a Forza banner up in their sim.

I think it would be funny if SMS did put Forza banners on the tracks :)

dault3883
13-05-2017, 00:11
Nice breyzipp. Well done.



I think it would be funny if SMS did put Forza banners on the tracks :)

they would have to pay Microsoft Royalties for using the brand in the game not likely to happen

Azure Flare
13-05-2017, 02:14
Well, SMS is not going to put a Forza banner up in their sim.

Sector 3 has Gran Turismo logos in theirs...

GenBrien
13-05-2017, 02:43
they would have to pay Microsoft Royalties for using the brand in the game not likely to happen

why
its an add to the track

do you think SMS has to pay to Verizon and allllllllll the ads around alllll the tracks to show them?
its part of the liscensing deal of the track

RomKnight
14-05-2017, 12:51
Actually you do have to pay for those, yes.

I'm not saying this type of banner needs to BTW. AFAIK it should be the same as having tyre brands written in the cars tyres... it's implicit on the license the same way a car does not run without tyres but the way things are nowadays... who knows.

/edit

Its more important that the markers are there like IRL but if they're painted in another colour it doesn't matter to me. It's impossible to keep track of everything and updating it starting with the tarmac :)

Ian Bell
14-05-2017, 14:08
We're clearly better.

And in a recent poll, most of our staff were voted better looking than Turn 10 staff.

seb02
16-05-2017, 07:06
When I was watching the Long Beach Jaguar XJR9 side-by-side comparison between FM6 and PCARS2 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EVLKeFoYl2E) I couldn't help but notice some differences in visual details around the track. I got curious to see which developer studio got it right and who was wrong. I grabbed a 2017 Long Beach on-board video from YouTube and initially thought Turn 10 made a lot of errors. But realizing their track initially appeared in FM5 in 2014 I decided to compare it with a Long Beach video from 2013.

What you see below is various screenshots of 3 Long Beach videos in total :
- top left: real life 2013 (the year which T10 most likely used as a reference for the track in FM5 & FM6) (reference video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hvWhnSjYkzk))
- top right: real life 2016 (the year which SMS most likely used as a reference for the track in PCARS2) (reference video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfrBIDf7cnA))
- bottom center: combined video of Turn 10 version in FM6 (left) and SMS version in PCARS2 (right) (reference video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EVLKeFoYl2E))



1 - The start finish bridge. Notice how it has different art in 2013 compared to 2016, both SMS and T10 did a great job in recreating the art for the bridge in their time.
2 - Notice the street lights over the circuit in the distance and even the red Toyota bridge further in the distance. Great detail.
237729



3 - Notice the big Toyota banner in front of the building, it was there in 2013 and gone in 2016. Also notice the great accurate detail of 2016 in PCARS 2 on those banners and tyre sections of the wall.
4 - There are 2 trees in 2013 and only 1 tree left in 2016. :)
237727



5 - Yellow rectangular "curbstones" in 2013 and red+white pyramid ones in 2016. Both studios did a great job here.
6 - Notice the different advertising on the back wall between 2013 and 2016 and how again each studio did a great job again.
237730



7 - Overhanging Verizon banner in 2016, not so in 2013.
237731



8 - When advertising is not censured or not left out due to licencing then both studios have it spot on.
237732



9 - Notice the accurate detail of the braking distance sign (the 200) and in 2016 the extra orange colour below it and the red/yellow striped thingy.
10 - Notice the extra trees in 2013 and the lack of those same trees in 2016.
237733



11 - Notice those 2 trees on the side on how the left one is bent, amazing how T10 recreated this in FM where SMS seems to have missed some accuracy here.
12 - Same for the patch of 3 trees on the right side, T10 reproduced this with better accuracy than SMS.
237734



I think in the end I have to give my kudos to both studios for some incredible accuracy on the visuals of this track, even more so when you realise that Long Beach is a very complex track for graphics artists with so much detail happening next to the track (compared to for example the Nordschliefe or Red Bull Ring where it's mostly just trees). This is the first time I take so much time to compare a real life track with an in-game track. T10 did an outstanding job with recreating the 2013 Long Beach in their virtual world and SMS again did an outstanding job with the 2016 version. I'll have to give an extra kudos for the accuracy of the trees to Turn 10 though, not just those from points 11 & 12 but at various places in the videos I noticed how spot-on they are. Almost the same for SMS though since their trees were most of the time spot-on as well (this 11 & 12 is the only error I found). And one other big kudos to SMS as well for having this level of detail in a complete dynamic weather environment with day/night cycles and different seasons. In FM6 I could only experience Long Beach as a "static" map with a sunny daytime. In PCARS 2 the track truly comes to life with the full day and night cycles as you can see in this video with a rapid time advancement (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=57e8jLjfC3k) and it looks absolutely gorgeous at night with the street lights on and decorative lights of the buildings around the circuit.



Warning!!! The following part is ment to be funny!!!

237725
Ooh, there is another advertising banner SMS seems to have failed to reproduce accurately. I'm sure each time I see those burgers advertised in PCARS 2 I'll have to giggle. ;) ;) ;)

Great job.
The track seems to me too dark compared to reality.

DinoM
16-05-2017, 08:13
Nice breyzipp. Well done.



I think it would be funny if SMS did put Forza banners on the tracks :)

It depends on what's in the license. ;)

breyzipp
16-05-2017, 10:06
Great job.
The track seems to me too dark compared to reality.

Take into account that PC2 has full range dynamic weather. The screenshots I took are all from a single lap, probably not the most sunny one.

seb02
16-05-2017, 10:14
Take into account that PC2 has full range dynamic weather. The screenshots I took are all from a single lap, probably not the most sunny one.

Yes, you are probably right. thanks

proterra1
16-05-2017, 11:53
I noticed the PCARS version has very visible road markings. In real life it looks like they have burned them off. I wonder if the live track feature could leave tyre markings and rubber down on these lines so they become less white and over a race weekend.

honespc
17-05-2017, 13:06
I didn't know the track looked that good in forza6 actually. We still need to see the final polished version of pc2 though under sunny conditions, with the subsequent heat distortion and blur effects as well plus some proper antialiasing. Only then we can compare with f6.

breyzipp
17-05-2017, 13:21
I didn't know the track looked that good in forza6 actually. We still need to see the final polished version of pc2 though under sunny conditions, with the subsequent heat distortion and blur effects as well plus some proper antialiasing. Only then we can compare with f6.

That's true but then you will also need to compare it with F7. :)

honespc
17-05-2017, 13:38
Fair enough. Project Cars has set the bar very high on the graphics department only in his first instalment though.

Blake-Lee43
27-05-2017, 01:08
We're clearly better.

And in a recent poll, most of our staff were voted better looking than Turn 10 staff.


Literally just lost it over this comment.