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MannyPakkuiao
23-05-2017, 06:08
I'm throwing in the towel after scouring the internet for the days- I need help.

Wheel: T150
Console: PS4
Set and calibrated to 900 degrees.
Using the settings by Marvsche97 on page two and Jack Spade's classic setup.

Here's the problem, most likely a glitch;
I cannot feel understeer at all. Nor can I feel driving into the wall at any speed. The steering wheel is just tight and there is no feedback on the road. I get feedback when I drive over kerbs and grass but that's the only time I feel it.

Here's the kicker- in my roughly 20 hours of playing the game, there have been two instances, completely random where it was working how it's intended. The steering went light as I went around a turn and understeered, it vibrated with the intensity of the slipping- almost felt like AC. I was getting so much more feedback that I shaved 2.1 seconds off my lap at Laguna Seca in a Gumpert Apollo. I also got the feedback randomly on California highway once and I felt like a driving God. I was getting all types of feedback and not crashing into barriers because I finally could feel when I was slipping.
Otherwise I have to listen closely to the tires to see if they're squealing and that's the only way I know to back off the throttle.

Now if these breakthroughs happened more often, I may be able to pin point what exactly it is that induces them but since they've only happened twice, completely randomly, I have no idea.

Please help �� those two times were a JOYFUL experience and I need more of it in my life!

hkraft300
23-05-2017, 09:04
What would be really useful is a video with your telemetry screen. It'll show what the wheel ffb is doing.
From the sound of it: you're just clipping so it's all overloaded and feeling heavy with no feedback (because the feedback oscillation is beyond the limit of the wheel). Jack Spade's settings are done on a Fanatec AFAIK, so it'll roast a T150.
I have a G29 which is about the same level as a T150 and I'm getting plenty of feedback once I stopped the clipping. You could copy and try my relative adjust settings to your wheel and see how that feels.
That said, I don't often drive road cars, but I did 30 minute race in the Zonda roadster on the weekend, and the ffb felt distinctly blunt compared to a race car.

I run default in-car ffb (no Jack Spade) with ~40 MS. The relative adjust gain/bleed/clamp may apply to your wheel, it just stops clipping.

Olijke Poffer
23-05-2017, 10:29
Where stands ~40 MS for?
I have a T150 as well and I would love to try your settings despite you have a G29.

MannyPakkuiao
23-05-2017, 11:49
What would be really useful is a video with your telemetry screen. It'll show what the wheel ffb is doing.
From the sound of it: you're just clipping so it's all overloaded and feeling heavy with no feedback (because the feedback oscillation is beyond the limit of the wheel). Jack Spade's settings are done on a Fanatec AFAIK, so it'll roast a T150.
I have a G29 which is about the same level as a T150 and I'm getting plenty of feedback once I stopped the clipping. You could copy and try my relative adjust settings to your wheel and see how that feels.
That said, I don't often drive road cars, but I did 30 minute race in the Zonda roadster on the weekend, and the ffb felt distinctly blunt compared to a race car.

I run default in-car ffb (no Jack Spade) with ~40 MS. The relative adjust gain/bleed/clamp may apply to your wheel, it just stops clipping.

The settings by Marvsche97 are for a T150 and everyone that replied to his thread using a T150 is thoroughly happy with those settings. But like I said, there have been two random instances where I didn't change the settings at all and the feel was exactly how it should be and then when I restarted, it was gone so I think this is more a glitching problem. Regardless, I will try your settings.

Also, I'm a complete newbie to Sim racing... How exactly do I go about capturing my telemetry screen?

Mad Al
23-05-2017, 12:10
Sounds to me like this is the canned effects coming through, which shouldn't ever happen but seems to be most prevalent on console.. They are supposed to be off as they can hide information from the raw FFB.

If you run AC with high value for the slip setting, then you will probably miss that in PC as it's not there.. likewise if you have the enhanced fade for understeer.. (assuming the PS4 version has both of those in AC!)

Check your wheel settings and under edit assignments, see what is set for Cycle Hud (probably left on the D Pad as default)

MannyPakkuiao
23-05-2017, 13:12
Sounds to me like this is the canned effects coming through, which shouldn't ever happen but seems to be most prevalent on console.. They are supposed to be off as they can hide information from the raw FFB.

If you run AC with high value for the slip setting, then you will probably miss that in PC as it's not there.. likewise if you have the enhanced fade for understeer.. (assuming the PS4 version has both of those in AC!)

Check your wheel settings and under edit assignments, see what is set for Cycle Hud (probably left on the D Pad as default)

Yes, the Cycle Hud is left on the D pad, how does this come into play? What is the canned effect and how do I make it come through more often if that's what it takes to get the proper feel of the steering wheel?

hkraft3000 I tried your wheel settings and although I got even more feel on the straight, my main problem is still there- a very, very stiff steering wheel on turns regardless of speed, no understeer feel at all and no feel at all when there's a crash.

hkraft300
23-05-2017, 14:08
To me it seems it's still clipping and/or my settings combined with your in-car ffb settings isn't quite working. I use default (Fx /y/z etc all 100)
In race cars, you can get slightly more understeer feel with increased caster angle (in car tuning, alignment) but that also makes the wheel stiff on straights due to heavy self-centering. It's a car suspension physics effect, and some cars can have a lot of caster angle and some cars very little.
Keep pressing D-pad to cycle through the HUD til you see telemetry. That's your tyre pressure/temperature, brake temperature, throttle/steering/brake inputs at top centre of the screen. The graph on the top left corner is your ffb meter. If it's flat-lining at the top or middle/bottom of the graph, then it's overloaded aka "clipping".

I highly recommend you tune/test ffb in a race car. Lotus 49 on hard/medium tyres, or FRookie, GT4... road cars inherently won't have as much feel/ffb activity as a race car.

Also might help to post your global (aka ffb calibration) settings here.


Where stands ~40 MS for?
.

Master scale (in car ffb settings) = 40.

Olijke Poffer
23-05-2017, 14:46
Master scale (in car ffb settings) = 40.

Of course... duhhh feeling stupid now. :stupid:
Thanks, will try your settings tonight.

hkraft300
23-05-2017, 14:54
Of course... duhhh feeling stupid now. :stupid:
Thanks, will try your settings tonight.

Don't feel stupid.
There are too many acronyms and internet words for me to keep track.

MannyPakkuiao
23-05-2017, 15:25
To me it seems it's still clipping and/or my settings combined with your in-car ffb settings isn't quite working. I use default (Fx /y/z etc all 100)
In race cars, you can get slightly more understeer feel with increased caster angle (in car tuning, alignment) but that also makes the wheel stiff on straights due to heavy self-centering. It's a car suspension physics effect, and some cars can have a lot of caster angle and some cars very little.
Keep pressing D-pad to cycle through the HUD til you see telemetry. That's your tyre pressure/temperature, brake temperature, throttle/steering/brake inputs at top centre of the screen. The graph on the top left corner is your ffb meter. If it's flat-lining at the top or middle/bottom of the graph, then it's overloaded aka "clipping".

I highly recommend you tune/test ffb in a race car. Lotus 49 on hard/medium tyres, or FRookie, GT4... road cars inherently won't have as much feel/ffb activity as a race car.

Also might help to post your global (aka ffb calibration) settings here.



Master scale (in car ffb settings) = 40.

Oh that telemetry, yes it's definitely flat lining often at the top. I have a couple of exams coming up Thursday so I won't be able to reply but good news- I've made some progress.

I dialed down the SoP Scale (not exactly sure what it does) and that made a huge difference! The steering goes relatively light now when I understeer but doesn't vibrate as much as I'd like and it's a little too light under full throttle (stiffer than when turning though). I think I'm getting close to the solution but will probably have to play around with it for a few more hours. In the mean time, anything you guys suggest would be much appreciated.

Also, does Master Scale always have to match SoP scale?

Olijke Poffer
23-05-2017, 16:10
Keep us informed about your progress and settings.
And yes those 2 need to have the same value..

wyldanimal
23-05-2017, 16:12
There are THREE distinct types of FFB signals in pCars
1 the Main FFB Settings for Just the Wheel - The Natural Response of your Brand of Wheel.
2 the Spindle - This is the Front Suspension, What is Happening to the Wheels Felt in the Drivers Arms.
3 the "G" forces - Seat of Pants, Sop, What is happening to the Drivers Body.

we can sort of think of these as VOLUME settings. How LOUD is the FFB being sent to the Wheel.

Main FFB Strength is the Over All Volume of the FFB signal sent to the Wheel.
Master Scale or Spindle Master defaults to 26, It is the Final Volume setting of All the Combined Suspension movements.
SoP Scale Defaults to 0, is the Final Volume setting of the "G" force movements.

The Output sent to your wheel is the Mathematical Combination of these All together.
And that is what you See on the FFB HUD.

The Yellow Graph, represents the Combined FFB signal that is being sent to the Wheel.
If Combined they are too LOUD, then All you Get is a FLAT LINE at the Top, or Bottom, called Clipping.



The real Answer to your Question Does SoP always have to Match Master Scale is NO.
But to get an Equal MIX, in General, you would Keep them the Same.

The MASTER VOLUMES just need to be set so you minimize the Clipping.



Each Wheel, has it's own Inertia Characteristics.
The Master FFB settings, are First used to Tune Out the Wheels Mechanical and Inertia Characteristics.

So Ideally, Before Doing Any Other FFB settings.
you Want to make the Main FFB adjustments, so you have a Wheel that Isn't Loaded up, or Oscillating on It's Own.

Then After the Wheels Characteristics are Tuned.

You can Tweak the Cars FFB characteristics

But I found with my G29. Once I had the Wheel Tuned.
All of the Default Car FFB settings Felt very Good.

The ONLY per Car Adjustment I make, is the Spindle Master or Master Scale.

Get the Wheel Tuned Right, and everything else falls into place.


Ideally, One G29 should be very close to Another G29, so the Main Wheel Tune should be the same for All G29 Users.
In realality, that's not Perfect. Each G29 wheel is just a bit different.
This is Why pCars has so much Flexibility for the FFB adjustments.

The same goes for a T150,
The Same Main FFB setting should be the same for Most T150's

And for the T300's
once One Person has gotten the Main FFB Tune
Most other users can Use it, or Start with that same Tune.

What isn't really a Good Idea, Is to take a T300 tune, and try to use it on a G29 or a T150
It just Won't be correct for your Wheel.

Olijke Poffer
23-05-2017, 16:53
Thanks for the info... although I really don't know what is a good main FFB setting for my T150

VelvetTorpedo
23-05-2017, 17:12
this site has a ton of wheel settings made by users. here are the t150 ones for ps4


http://pcars.oscarolim.pt/wheel-settings/browse/ps4-14

Olijke Poffer
23-05-2017, 17:59
Yeah I know thanks. But so many different settings. Will fiddle some more with the settings.

For those who is willing to take a look at this couple of laps and help me to kill the clipping. I really don't know which setting to alter to reduce the clipping.

Underneath the vid and my FFB settings.

https://youtu.be/bHivOeYj4J8

237830 237831
237832 237833
237834

hkraft300
23-05-2017, 20:51
Steering gain = 1.0
That will help. Also if you increase relative adjust bleed it might give you a little better detail on the high end forces. RAB 0.1, I find, kills the ffb forces too abruptly.
Tyre Force, Master Scale, ffb strength, steering gain are all "volume" controls.

I highly advise against SoP. You don't feel rear wheel slip through the steering wheel of a real car. What you do feel is self-centering caster effect, that is, the front wheels track towards the direction of travel.
Set SoP = 0, you get better detail on what the front wheels are doing, and get plenty of counter steer effect when the rear slides.



The MASTER VOLUMES just need to be set so you minimize the Clipping.

This is the only statement I don't agree with. Everything else is spot on.
After discussing with Grimeydog and having a play with it, I've found the relative adjust parameters are the best way to stop clipping. They contain the forces within the working range of your wheel, regardless of high your MS, TF etc are set.
You've seen my settings: no SoP, TF 100, ffb 100, SG 1.0 still no clipping because of where my RAG and RAC are set. I use MS to adjust the wheel "weight" in a straight line, which is almost always set at 40. From there I'll adjust caster angle, then MS if I'm wanting more "weight".

wyldanimal
23-05-2017, 22:34
Since I don't have access to a T150,
I can't offer any Tune Data or Numbers the I know would work.
For that, I hope there is another member who has gone through the process to
1) tune out the Wheels Characteristics and inertia
2) create a good Basic tune for the T150 so that the Car Default values Feel about right.

I have a set of Video's that I made for the G29.
I'll share this one here again.

This is what Step 1 looks like after you have the Wheels Characteristics and inertia tuned.
The Wheel has very little resistance to turning it.
It has just a bit of drag to slow it down.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2HXRAyuGT3g

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2HXRAyuGT3g

These are two examples of Bad Basic Wheel tunes.
Too much resistance, it Oscillates, or Accelerates on it own.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7M-oQrYJws

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YEeIpfLx8Cw

hkraft300
24-05-2017, 00:05
I might have to steal some of your settings!

Mahjik
24-05-2017, 01:53
For me, too high Scoop settings hide the feeling in the braking zones. I have a much better feel in the braking and turn in zones with Scoop Knee at around 50 (and Scoop Reduction at around .10).

Olijke Poffer
24-05-2017, 05:09
Thank you all so much. Very appreciated. Will start altering the settings confirm your findings and preferences.
Will report back once done.. for now, drink a beer on my account.. bottoms up.

Olijke Poffer
24-05-2017, 09:11
Well I put it to the test and indeed no more clipping after I changed the settings as you told..
great stuff guys.

morpwr
24-05-2017, 10:50
Well I put it to the test and indeed no more clipping after I changed the settings as you told..
great stuff guys.

I don't know if it will be the same for the t150 but I found with the t300 any much above .03 for rab would make the wheel grab. Its an odd feeling but really noticeable if you brake hard going into a corner or if youre trying to save the car after the rear stepping out. So something you might want to watch for.

Olijke Poffer
24-05-2017, 12:57
What do you mean with "make the wheel grab". as English is not my native language I have a problem to understand the context. :rolleyes:

morpwr
24-05-2017, 13:24
What do you mean with "make the wheel grab". as English is not my native language I have a problem to understand the context. :rolleyes:

It may not apply to your wheel but it did on the t300. Its sort of hard to explain but it more noticeable in quick high load situations. If you turn it up to like 1.0 and turn it down to .03 youll probably notice it if it affects your wheel. Its like the strong forces stay too long and it feels like the wheel grabs for second.

Olijke Poffer
24-05-2017, 13:34
Will test that.. ;)

MannyPakkuiao
29-05-2017, 00:47
Update: There is definitely a glitch.

The same settings that work one second, stop working the next. I then have to open up the settings screen, move a few sliders away then back to the settings I started with and then it fixes it. Hella annoyed at this point because I can't adjust them in rolling start races.

hkraft300
29-05-2017, 04:22
Could you be specific?

morpwr
29-05-2017, 15:33
Update: There is definitely a glitch.

The same settings that work one second, stop working the next. I then have to open up the settings screen, move a few sliders away then back to the settings I started with and then it fixes it. Hella annoyed at this point because I can't adjust them in rolling start races.


Every time I had weird stuff like that on the ps4 it was usually because something was corrupted. Id reinstall the game and see if that takes care of it.

dault3883
29-05-2017, 15:37
Every time I had weird stuff like that on the ps4 it was usually because something was corrupted. Id reinstall the game and see if that takes care of it.

just out of curriosity would that affect his career files

morpwr
29-05-2017, 20:30
just out of curriosity would that affect his career files

After having to do it after the first couple updates I never bothered starting one again because I knew id be doing it again. The worst part was reinstalling jacks settings over and over on console. I honestly have no idea if its constantly playing with settings or the updates that do it but it happened to most of us pretty frequently. I'm guessing youll lose everything unless someone knows how you can save it without reinstalling the corrupted data.

hkraft300
29-05-2017, 22:55
I'm guessing youll lose everything unless someone knows how you can save it without reinstalling the corrupted data.

I've turned auto-backup off just for pcars and do it manually.
So if I get another profile corrupt, I might lose a little but it'll mostly be there.

MannyPakkuiao
30-05-2017, 00:05
Could you be specific?

For example,

When I go around a turn, the wheel goes light, there's vibration to indicate that grip has been lost. This is how I like it.

Then, randomly, it'll stop doing that. Wheel will go stiff. Won't go light around turns anymore, won't vibrate to indicate grip has been lost anymore.

So I open up the car settings, move the Fy from 8 to 10 then back to 8 again and voila. Back to how I like it. Or sometimes it won't go back to how I like it. I haven't started the campaign yet so reinstalling isn't the biggest issue, but will that fix it?

hkraft300
30-05-2017, 04:07
Same corner, same car?
Because I'll get a different feel in the same car, same settings, but different corners at a track.
Depending if it's gripping/sliding/ high speed/low speed/ bumpy /smooth.
Ffb is very dynamic.

morpwr
30-05-2017, 10:44
For example,

When I go around a turn, the wheel goes light, there's vibration to indicate that grip has been lost. This is how I like it.

Then, randomly, it'll stop doing that. Wheel will go stiff. Won't go light around turns anymore, won't vibrate to indicate grip has been lost anymore.

So I open up the car settings, move the Fy from 8 to 10 then back to 8 again and voila. Back to how I like it. Or sometimes it won't go back to how I like it. I haven't started the campaign yet so reinstalling isn't the biggest issue, but will that fix it?

That sounds like what happens with corrupted data. Used to happen to me if I made an adjustment then the ffb would be all screwed up. Then id make another one and it would work. One thing that helps is wait for the screen to finish saving before backing out of it when you change something. Grimey figured that one out and it seemed to help or at least limit it getting corrupted.

MannyPakkuiao
12-06-2017, 15:10
That sounds like what happens with corrupted data. Used to happen to me if I made an adjustment then the ffb would be all screwed up. Then id make another one and it would work. One thing that helps is wait for the screen to finish saving before backing out of it when you change something. Grimey figured that one out and it seemed to help or at least limit it getting corrupted.
I'll give that a shot. I am extremely disappointed with this game. It could have been a masterpiece if they had just put some decent pre-programmed settings for FFB for different wheels in. As you can tell from my slow replies, time is a rare commodity to me and I do not have time to sit down for a few days and figure this nonsense out.



Same corner, same car?
Because I'll get a different feel in the same car, same settings, but different corners at a track.
Depending if it's gripping/sliding/ high speed/low speed/ bumpy /smooth.
Ffb is very dynamic.

Same corner, same car, within minutes of each other.

hkraft300
12-06-2017, 16:35
time is a rare commodity to me and I do not have time to sit down for a few days and figure this nonsense out.




Rare to us all.
I'd rather be racing than screwing about on this forum.
But it's also good for new guys to have people like morpwr and many others here.
You ask, you receive.
Or at least get pointed in the right direction :)

MannyPakkuiao
14-06-2017, 01:33
Rare to us all.
I'd rather be racing than screwing about on this forum.
But it's also good for new guys to have people like morpwr and many others here.
You ask, you receive.
Or at least get pointed in the right direction :)

Welp. I tried. I tried everything. It worked properly today for a glorious 15 minutes till I went to the next car. Garbage. Went back to the first car. Garbage. I'm throwing in the towel.

Thank you all so much for your help. And **** you very much to slightly mad studios.