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View Full Version : Online Multiplayer - 2 to 16??!



Trippul G
27-06-2017, 14:27
Anyone else notice in the xbox store that it states "Online Multiplayer - 2-16"? I hope that's not official and is just some sort of placeholder information. If we're going to be limited to 16 players on console, that's some weak sauce.

RacingAtHome
27-06-2017, 15:01
Anyone else notice in the xbox store that it states "Online Multiplayer - 2-16"? I hope that's not official and is just some sort of placeholder information. If we're going to be limited to 16 players on console, that's some weak sauce.

Nothing official's been said so take that with a pinch of salt. I'd be amazed if it stayed at 16. That's only enough for Modern WTCC and that's not in game. :P

hkraft300
27-06-2017, 15:52
Don't hold out hopes for >16 on MP.
The base xb1 and ps4 are still current, so there's that hardware limitation.

Trippul G
27-06-2017, 15:58
FWIW, Forza 7's preorder page is showing 2-24 online. Just sayin'. :\

TexasTyme214
27-06-2017, 16:00
Don't hold out hopes for >16 on MP.
The base xb1 and ps4 are still current, so there's that hardware limitation.

I thought the limitation was server related, not hardware.

hkraft300
27-06-2017, 16:15
I thought the limitation was server related, not hardware.

Then the netcode will need a serious diet to accommodate the extra players.


FWIW, Forza 7's preorder page is showing 2-24 online. Just sayin'. :\

Throw in Dynamic weather, ToD, LiveTrack 3 and all the physics and tech going on in pcars.

I'm just saying: don't be surprised to see a 16 limit in MP for pc2. Believe me I'd love to see 30+ grids but it's unlikely.

Anyway, it's a good question for the development team and wmd.

Bankai_Bullett
27-06-2017, 16:20
16 players maximum on consoles isn't acceptable.
Especially as it's probably THE MOST REQUESTED ONLINE FEATURE since PCars.
Really disappointed if the number is legit to be honest.

breyzipp
27-06-2017, 18:40
If the 16 is right then I hope for the Pro and X1X it gets increased a bit, for example 20 Pro and 24 X1X. And that the more powerful consoles get to join both the standard console lobbies (16) and the ones specific for the Pro or X1X.

RacingAtHome
27-06-2017, 19:01
I thought the limitation was server related, not hardware.

That's exactly what I was thinking. If it was to do with cars on track, there are still a maximum of about 45 cars on track at circuits like Watkins Glen, Sonoma and Le Mans on console. PC have got many more on their platform so I have a feeling it could also be related to something with Microsoft and Sony.

DECATUR PLAYA
27-06-2017, 19:29
Don't hold out hopes for >16 on MP.
The base xb1 and ps4 are still current, so there's that hardware limitation.

This may be something that they are still working on. Better 16 working correctly than 24 playing glitched filled races.

Bankai_Bullett
27-06-2017, 19:31
Yeah I'm not buying the hardware limitation line AT ALL.
I remember someone from SMS saying that AI cars will be using the same physics as the player controlled car, which will obviously put the memory usage(?) or whatever, up. That said... if consoles are getting, what was it last time, 32 cars?, on single player on original spec PS4/XB1, then there is no reason why consoles shouldn't be able to produce 22+ car lobbies. Y'know, since that's a lot less than 32 and everyone is using the same physics.

I would really like a genuine reason as to why this choice was made.... and NOT the usual b.s line about "We had to make a choice and we feel blah blah blah".

Roger Prynne
27-06-2017, 20:31
Yeah I'm not buying the hardware limitation line AT ALL.
I remember someone from SMS saying that AI cars will be using the same physics as the player controlled car, which will obviously put the memory usage(?) or whatever, up. That said... if consoles are getting, what was it last time, 32 cars?, on single player on original spec PS4/XB1, then there is no reason why consoles shouldn't be able to produce 22+ car lobbies. Y'know, since that's a lot less than 32 and everyone is using the same physics.

I would really like a genuine reason as to why this choice was made.... and NOT the usual b.s line about "We had to make a choice and we feel blah blah blah".

Where did you hear that?

Bankai_Bullett
27-06-2017, 20:40
Where did you hear that?

Errr.... I cannot for the life of me remember. It was a while ago though, and I think it was an article, could've been a video, but I'm sure it was related to PCars 2.

Is this not the case then?

Roger Prynne
27-06-2017, 20:44
No it's not, you would need a super super duper duper computer to do that.

Mad Al
27-06-2017, 20:45
Errr.... I cannot for the life of me remember. It was a while ago though, and I think it was an article, could've been a video, but I'm sure it was related to PCars 2.

Is this not the case then?

No, it's not.. AC is supposed to use the same physics for AI and player (although that has also been called out as potentially being inaccurate)

To be blunt, the improvements between PC1 and PC2 will mean that some things need to get squeezed.. and if that happens to be that fewer online players on console, then I'm afraid that may be the compromise you have to live with.
The old expression, you can't fit a quart into a pint pot comes to mind...

Roger Prynne
27-06-2017, 20:47
No, it's not.. AC is supposed to use the same physics for AI and player (although that has also been called out as potentially being inaccurate)

To be blunt, the improvements between PC1 and PC2 will mean that some things need to get squeezed.. and if that happens to be that fewer online players on console, then I'm afraid that may be the compromise you have to live with.
The old expression, you can't fit a quart into a pint pot comes to mind...

That's a load of bull's droppings.

GenBrien
27-06-2017, 21:25
No it's not, you would need a super super duper duper computer to do that.

IIRC Ian said that 3 cars with the same tire model as humain would max consoles hardware capability

TexasTyme214
27-06-2017, 21:53
I don't think it's hardware related at all. We had 16 cars on PS3/X360. The console shouldn't have to calculate physics for every car on track. If so, that's 16 consoles trying to each calculate physics for the whole grid, which wouldn't make sense.

DECATUR PLAYA
28-06-2017, 05:28
I thought the limitation was server related, not hardware.

Maybe server related for PC. Peer to peer for console. I have never seen peer to peer do more than 16. This is the first peer to peer that I have actually seen do 16. NASCAR 09 was 14 players and it worked better with 12.

Stewy32
28-06-2017, 06:15
X box probably will not allow 24 as it will put us with FM7.

honespc
28-06-2017, 06:25
16 players maximum on consoles isn't acceptable.
Without dedicated server support?. Certainly not. p2p listen servers should never go up the 8 players mark regardless it's on PC, console, and the host sporting a god-like connection.
______________________________________

Any news on the online performance area?. PC1 netcode was a obviously unfinished stuff, and worked only "good" on dedis in most situations. And what about all the problems in the steam version with players getting auto-kicked?. And the game crashing to desktop when someone makes the lobby crash? (64bit version)?. Is all this stuff sorted?

hkraft300
28-06-2017, 08:30
Without dedicated server support?. Certainly not. p2p listen servers should never go up the 8 players mark regardless it's on PC, console, and the host sporting a god-like connection.


Eh...
I don't see much lag and usually race US/Eu/UK based guys and can get real close without lag and contact in a full lobby.
You can see who's lagging and give them a bit of space.

Sankyo
28-06-2017, 09:53
I remember someone from SMS saying that AI cars will be using the same physics as the player controlled car, ...
As stated above already, this is not correct. The AI do use a more advanced tyre model in pC2, but not the player tyre model as not even the baddest PC you can get now would be able to handle that.

As for the MP limitations, AFAIK consoles are still much more limited in this than PC but I forgot where the limitation is (it was stated a long time ago by SMS somewhere).

honespc
28-06-2017, 11:54
Eh...
I don't see much lag and usually race US/Eu/UK based guys and can get real close without lag and contact in a full lobby.
You can see who's lagging and give them a bit of space.There's a lot of synch problems going on in the background, as you could not have it any other way on listening servers anyway.

Then we have to add the problem when anyone with a harsh NAT configuration joins and others get kicked due to the server/host inability to negotiate the new player incoming with the ones already present; the latency, etc..., many things that having dedicated server support even on console could be spared quickly. Btw in the Steam version, which is why I asked in the other post to devs how were things going on in this area for pc2, the game usually freezes and you get a direct crash to desktop. A very annoying thing.

You can see it on Steam on PC. Dedicated servers (as long as the host ain't playing in his own server, which is lol btw when that happens). They can get up to 24 players perfectly well even with the terribly sub-par pc1 net-code performance. No NAT trouble, and when a lagger joins he is the one and only lagging, without having the same tremendous impact a client like that always causes on p2p servers. Just switch to listening server, and worse set it above the 8 players mark, and the issues begin to show up and being felt. Like in any other game.

DECATUR PLAYA
28-06-2017, 18:58
There's a lot of synch problems going on in the background, as you could not have it any other way on listening servers anyway.

Then we have to add the problem when anyone with a harsh NAT configuration joins and others get kicked due to the server/host inability to negotiate the new player incoming with the ones already present; the latency, etc..., many things that having dedicated server support even on console could be spared quickly. Btw in the Steam version, which is why I asked in the other post to devs how were things going on in this area for pc2, the game usually freezes and you get a direct crash to desktop. A very annoying thing.

You can see it on Steam on PC. Dedicated servers (as long as the host ain't playing in his own server, which is lol btw when that happens). They can get up to 24 players perfectly well even with the terribly sub-par pc1 net-code performance. No NAT trouble, and when a lagger joins he is the one and only lagging, without having the same tremendous impact a client like that always causes on p2p servers. Just switch to listening server, and worse set it above the 8 players mark, and the issues begin to show up and being felt. Like in any other game.

I think we need info somewhere on how to open up your NAT. Guys get really insulted by this because they think they have boss internet and don't realize that their internet provider has them restricted. P2p works so much better when everybody has a open NAT.

I'm sure some of you guys can explain this better.

hkraft300
29-06-2017, 01:59
Boss internet but your NAT is just 2?
Amateur :rolleyes: