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ossyoscar
17-07-2017, 16:33
Hello pro drivers!

After buying a wheel and a having a lot of practice, my still bad laptimes just hit a wall. I'm still 10s worse than best drivers and i have no idea how to improve them.
I know its not car setup, I'm just... not the best driver yet.
I need suggestions - how did you boost your times? Are there people or clans willing to help novice driver?

*UPDATE* - Best suggestions of PC community and my experience

1. THEORY
- Watch this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQRmYMlmdqM
https://www.youtube.com/user/SAFEisFAST/videos
- Read this: https://learn.speedsecrets.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/Performance-Driving-Illustrated-ebook_Ross-Bentley_-1.pdf
- And this: Driving On The Edge: The Art and Science of Race Driving
- Leave racing aids (ABS, ESP, Stability control) OFF - if you'll learn to race without them, later with some of them in extreme time of need, you'll be a "DRIVING GOD" (Richard Hammond (tm)
- Check your Force Feedback settings. You need to know exactly whats happening with your car, and steering wheel is the only instrument that can tell you that.
- inthebagbud completed a wonderful database of resources for PC - USE IT http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?38864-Forum-Resources-for-Pcars

2. PRACTICE
- First of all - SLOW DOWN - Theres no point of starting your adventure with racing games in Pagani Zonda Revolucion, and expect good results. What's the point of driving at 300 km/h if you don't know how to use that speed in the corner? Yes, LMP and FA cars have massive amount of grip that make you think you are driving fast, but first online race will shatter your dreams.Start with cars like BMW 1-Series, BAC Mono, KTM X-bow, Lotus Type 25 Climax, Lotus 49C Cosworth. Those cars won't let you go too fast so you'll have TIME TO THINK, find best brake points, best line to take corner. Later get ones with more horsepower Ė Road B, GT4, GT3 ETC.
- "Slow is smooth, smooth is fast." - late braking is for crucial overtaking ONLY - time will come to master that skill. Now lift the brake pedal waaay before the corner, FOCUS ON THE RACING LINE and taking the turn (outside apex, inside apex, outside apex) precisely with no power. Later, use this http://www.drivingfast.net/tackling-corners/
Use every inch of the track. SLOW IN, FAST OUT.
- While practicing, concider each turn individually while practicing the racing line. Master each one at a time, later connect the dots on the whole racetrack.
- If you canít keep up online, race with AI drivers and simply follow them, copy their moves. Later up their skill level by 15% and start over.
- Be patient and make no mistakes. Many other drivers ahead of you will make mistakes and you will beat them. BE CONSISTENT.

Are there some important points to be made? WRITE THEM DOWN, post will be updated later

dault3883
17-07-2017, 16:43
Hello pro drivers!

After buying a wheel and a having a lot of practice, my still bad laptimes just hit a wall. I'm still 10s worse than best drivers and i have no idea how to improve them.
I know its not car setup, I'm just... not the best driver yet.
I need suggestions - how did you boost your times? Are there people or clans willing to help novice driver?

Practice practice practice

start out slow around a circuit and gradually go faster and dont over drive the corners

Mahjik
17-07-2017, 16:46
Take a look at this thread:

http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?50802-Analysing-my-own-efforts

Also, if you are new to racing/performance driving, this video will give you a little jump start (it's old, but the concepts are still taught the same today):


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQRmYMlmdqM

Schnizz58
17-07-2017, 16:48
Agreed....practice. Just run laps and you'll start to develop more feel. Also play around with the FFB settings until you can feel understeer and oversteer and you can catch an oversteer before it becomes a spin. A good telemetry program such as vrHive can help you find out where you're losing time as well.

ossyoscar
17-07-2017, 17:46
Which track is best for practice, short with all types of corners?

dault3883
17-07-2017, 18:01
Which track is best for practice, short with all types of corners?

i practice on the stock car layout at watkins glen and Laguna seca but i wouldnt recomend the latter unless you can get through the cork screw

sonoma is a good track its got lots of area you could end up going off but its really momentem based

if you want a fairly good test track like you are describing the Mohave test track has tons of configurations you could do

its kinda hard to say different people like different tracks depending on their driving style

Mahjik
17-07-2017, 19:12
Which track is best for practice, short with all types of corners?

The best idea is to start with one of the short variations of one of the tracks. Why? More repetitions in a shorter amount of time. Being able to get 20 laps in within 20 minutes verses 9-10 laps in 20 minutes gives you more chances evaluate and adjust things. Look at tracks like Oulton Park Foster, Snetterton 200, Catalunya National.

dault3883
17-07-2017, 19:20
The best idea is to start with one of the short variations of one of the tracks. Why? More repetitions in a shorter amount of time. Being able to get 20 laps in within 20 minutes verses 9-10 laps in 20 minutes gives you more chances evaluate and adjust things. Look at tracks like Oulton Park Foster, Snetterton 200, Catalunya National.

agreed i stick to the longer ones like laguna seca and watkins glen and sonoma because im familiar with the tracks layout and turns from other games. so i have a good idea on how the course is going to run and how i like the car its one less variable for me

Schnizz58
17-07-2017, 19:46
Somebody gave me a good piece of advice one time. They said just concentrate on one or two turns per lap. Don't worry about all the other ones, just focus on one turn and try to get it right. Then when you have it down reasonably well, move on to another corner and work on it. Also don't be afraid to experiment. Sometimes a little serendipity works in your favor and you can learn something from what you thought was a mistake.

Alfisti
17-07-2017, 19:52
At 10 seconds a lap I doubt it's just your driving, it suggests you need to ensure the wheel settings are right.

I use a controller and for the first few days i was a million miles off but when i got the controller settings right i started improving. I am now maybe 3 seconds off the absolute fastest guys, which is a lot but means I can race online and fight at least.

inthebagbud
17-07-2017, 20:10
From a complete rookie when the game came out


1. Patience, patience
2. Don't over drive - take stints of half an hour or so , then have a break or come back the next day - its amazing how many times you throw the towel in thinking your rubbish come back next day and nail it
3. Make sure wheel is set up right globally and individually for the cars

My signature has a link to a resources page with all sorts of good advice

4. Ignore the videos of guys they call aliens( fast oh fast) they have been doing it years there is always going to be better guys just like reallife
5. Run the career - this gives a good grounding in lesser cars - jumping in an LMP straight off is going to hack you off, make sure career ability of AI suits your style doesn't matter if its 30/40/50/60 % if its good for you then go with it
6. Decrease fuel load from default so you only run number of laps you need - default fuel is way too much and adds seconds to your times
7. Run the default tunes to get a feel and if you don't want to tune then don't until you feel comfortable - I was 12 months before I started tuning
8. Practice Practice Practice - I can practice for a career race for days sometimes as each track is new - pick your AI level and when you can get in top 10 get ready to race - note AI level can vary from track to track

9. ENJOY ENJOY ENJOY

yes it can be frustrating but so rewarding - I raced the game every day near enough for 6 months and now still do 3/4 times a week :yes::encouragement:

hkraft300
18-07-2017, 01:55
http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?28168-Develop-Your-Skills-Safe-is-Fast&highlight=Safe+fast

I think you should watch watch the Scott Mansell (driver61.com) guide to donington national and take the Ginetta G40 or Formula Rookie round it.

If you're 10 seconds off, it's not settings. It's track knowledge and driving technique. If you're well within the limits of the car (no over/understeer) you'll still get within ~5 seconds with everything default, if you know the track and drive a basic line.

Synystr
18-07-2017, 03:21
Hello pro drivers!

After buying a wheel and a having a lot of practice, my still bad laptimes just hit a wall. I'm still 10s worse than best drivers and i have no idea how to improve them.
I know its not car setup, I'm just... not the best driver yet.
I need suggestions - how did you boost your times? Are there people or clans willing to help novice driver?

Without sounding like a corporate public relations bot, we at PRD offer a race academy focusing on a wide range of subjects. http://pantheracingdivision.com/

But if I had to nail down one thing that will make you better? Consistency. You could be fast as hell over one lap... but if you aren't consistent, its pointless. Focus on mirroring you lap times. You should be able to do 10 laps within two tenths of a second of each other, no problem. Get out there and practice. Pick brake markers and stick to them, remember what gear you need to be in, and always look where you want to go. Once you're lined up for an apex, look for the next one.

hkraft300
18-07-2017, 03:55
we at PRD offer a race academy focusing on a wide range of subjects. http://pantheracingdivision.com/



Sounds like a good corporate public relations bot ;)

Synystr
18-07-2017, 06:12
Sounds like a good corporate public relations bot ;)

use promo code "Syn" for 10% off

ossyoscar
18-07-2017, 07:25
Now THATS a helpful community :D
Special thanks to Mahjik (watch a chapter on yt, alt tab to practice, watch a chapter) dault3883 (that damn corkscrew!) Schnizz58 (installing vrHive now) inthebagbud (thats a damn good database you've got) Synystr (then we'll see later on panther forum :)

Biggest problem is finding best brake point (I used to brake much much much too late) and KEEPING MOMENTUM with a good line

If you'll see a guy with ossy in ID ramming into your bumper, be kind; I'm not a dickhead, I'm just looking for a good place to slow down :D

Thanks a lot!

racesafegrandad
18-07-2017, 10:46
[1] Set your steering speed to around 9.1 [you can't do this after joining the race as the slider looks like its moving but does nothing, only by setting up the car before you join. Select car, press triangle, then set steering speed, then join the race] You will catch the slide almost before it starts and have much more feel for the car.
[2] Always finish your breaking before turning into the corner to avoid pushing the car into understeer. This way you can brake much much later and still make the apex.
[3] slow in, fast out.
[4] Learn every track and use every inch of the track.
[5] Make no mistakes. Many other drivers ahead of you will make mistakes and you will beat them.

All this is because I was shown how to drive by my son [Magician99] and at the ripe old age of 72 I now win one in five races in P.Cars.
Hope this helps?

Mahjik
18-07-2017, 13:13
Biggest problem is finding best brake point (I used to brake much much much too late) and KEEPING MOMENTUM with a good line

When working on braking, you have two things to play with:


When you start braking
How hard you brake


Pick a pressure say full braking is at a 10, start at a 7. You are breaking hard, but not all the way hard. Next, pick your braking point. With this combination, see where you end up.


Did you not make the corner because the car didn't slow down fast enough? If so, keep the same pressure, but move your braking point back.
Did you slow down way too soon so you had to get back on the throttle? If so, keep the same pressure but move your braking point forward.


Once you are good with the pressure and braking point getting you into the corner at the right speed and placement, now increase your brake pressure and do it all over again. Eventually, you want to brake as hard as you can and still make the corner with good speed and this is how you work your way to it.

ShneebnaMRR108
18-07-2017, 19:32
Watch all of the Scott Mansell (driver61.com)
Site is full of great stuff. Watch a section, then try it out, then keep going.

Fight-Test
18-07-2017, 19:50
Great stuff in this thread for new drivers. Can't add much that hasn't been covered but you can take a look at this book.

https://www.amazon.com/Driving-Edge-Science-Revised-Updated/dp/191058407X

Still my go too real life racing. Has some amazing stuff in here. I have the app also for quick reference. When I heard about this book it was around $400 second hand on ebay before the second edition came out. I waited of course but probably the bible of racing if there ever was one.

Practice, Practice, Practice

poirqc
19-07-2017, 00:52
When working on braking, you have two things to play with:


When you start braking
How hard you brake


Pick a pressure say full braking is at a 10, start at a 7. You are breaking hard, but not all the way hard. Next, pick your braking point. With this combination, see where you end up.


Did you not make the corner because the car didn't slow down fast enough? If so, keep the same pressure, but move your braking point back.
Did you slow down way too soon so you had to get back on the throttle? If so, keep the same pressure but move your braking point forward.


Once you are good with the pressure and braking point getting you into the corner at the right speed and placement, now increase your brake pressure and do it all over again. Eventually, you want to brake as hard as you can and still make the corner with good speed and this is how you work your way to it.

I would add 1 tiny thing to this already good advice. The transition from 0 input to full input is also important. A smooth build up of your brake input will also help you break harder. Helps the tire absorb the load from going foward to slowing the car down.

I started to practice it in pCars and i translated well when i went rent-a-karting couple days ago.

DECATUR PLAYA
19-07-2017, 03:55
Somebody gave me a good piece of advice one time. They said just concentrate on one or two turns per lap. Don't worry about all the other ones, just focus on one turn and try to get it right. Then when you have it down reasonably well, move on to another corner and work on it. Also don't be afraid to experiment. Sometimes a little serendipity works in your favor and you can learn something from what you thought was a mistake.

I just thought that this was a really good piece of advice. It's pretty much how I work on a track.

VonSchwerin
19-07-2017, 18:38
You probably need a plan, and to make a plan you have to undestand what to work on. There is no shortcuts.
Read Speed secrets, Ross Bentley, Mansell is good also like someone said but Ross gives you more of the fundamental stuff.
Find your own style to drive and work on the setup for your style, everyone is different, if you copy a setup and the guy drives differently it wont help you more than in the beginning.
Driving fast is so much more than line and breakingpoint, if it was easy everyone could do it. Work on one particular part of your driving every time you are on track, dont just drive around.
I could give you lots of advise but its better if you understand it yourself, but if i shall Point at only one thing that betters your laptime i would be DONT BRAKE SO DAMN LATE!
Make it two, use telemetry.
Good luck!

dault3883
19-07-2017, 18:42
agreed every one's driving style is like a finger print. every one's driving style is different no two the same just like no two people play the guitar the same exact way (which iv used this analogy before too) so you have to find a way that suits you and set up the car to work with that driving style

DECATUR PLAYA
19-07-2017, 20:14
agreed every one's driving style is like a finger print. every one's driving style is different no two the same just like no two people play the guitar the same exact way (which iv used this analogy before too) so you have to find a way that suits you and set up the car to work with that driving style

^So true.

ossyoscar
19-07-2017, 20:48
agreed every one's driving style is like a finger print. every one's driving style is different no two the same just like no two people play the guitar the same exact way (which iv used this analogy before too) so you have to find a way that suits you and set up the car to work with that driving style

Right now it's absolutely unique, there's no one else trying to come out of sneaking back of a car with so many overcorrections :D

dault3883
19-07-2017, 21:06
Right now it's absolutely unique, there's no one else trying to come out of sneaking back of a car with so many overcorrections :D

you just have to find your own rythem like iv said before start off going slow around the circuit and just gradually increase the speed

Alfisti
20-07-2017, 13:40
Really feel you guys are taking him to the next level, even basic "turn the car when i see a corner" will result in faster times than he is doing. i reakon his controller/wheel settings are miles off.

dault3883
20-07-2017, 14:22
Really feel you guys are taking him to the next level, even basic "turn the car when i see a corner" will result in faster times than he is doing. i reakon his controller/wheel settings are miles off.

maybe but the help we are giving him will help in the long run too

VonSchwerin
20-07-2017, 16:04
I have no assist, no force feedback, minimum strength on the wheel and 7,5 turningrate" And i still beat most guys on timetrial in the Radical, its not about wheelsettings, its about what you are used to.

Alfisti
21-07-2017, 01:46
Not sure about wheels but on the controller there were two or three settings in relation to sensitivity that until changed were just near undriveable.

hkraft300
21-07-2017, 07:26
Not sure about wheels but on the controller there were two or three settings in relation to sensitivity that until changed were just near undriveable.

Steering sensitivity
Speed sensitivity
Controller filtering
And possibly steering ratio in car setup (could also be placebo!)

They're also critical on wheels, to get 1:1 rotation/linear response.
For that you want mode 3, steering 50, filtering and speed 0. Then adjust steering ratio to your liking. Assuming your wheel is calibrated as per on screen instructions and not artificially reduced to fool the steering ratio.

dan2312
21-07-2017, 12:34
My idea to help you would, if you still have cash, purchase the book called "the perfect corner" from amazon, that lays out the basics for cornering. Its book one of three.
Another good book that i bought aswell is "how to drive by ben collins"

Quick Guide;
Also try the slow in fast out on the corners, also try to stay on the outside of the straight on the approach to a corner, turn in try and touch the inside of the corner (apex) then aim your car for the outside of the next straight whilst trying to either floor it or gradually accelerate. dependent upon car and settings.

Its best to find videos of drivers on you tube or download ghosts in project cars and try and follow their racing line.

But some peeps have already given good advice, start slow and gradually pick up speed try and do faster lap times find your racing line.

Also another pro tip i would consider, and this is from the ben collins book, you only ever have maximum grip on all 4 tyres when your foot is not on the accelerator or the brake pedal. something to think about when going into or around a corner. ;)

Best i can do over the internet for any and all given tracks.

Mancunain
23-07-2017, 17:37
Its good to aspire to those top times, but believe me,there are some awesome drivers in the game.. a bit like saying you'll match hamiltons time after a few guidelines in his car... its possible, but not very probable :)
Like everyone said, practice is key.. learn the tracks.. and some tuning will improve your time.. but i dont know tuning well enough to teach you either, sorry. I have to read them over & over, i understand why some dont bother.. yet... If you like the timetrials, then learning some tuning is essential if you want to be on that top page ( imo )

For extra help, this game (on pc) also allows upto 3 ghosts in the timetrials... you can then choose ghosts from the top ten somewhere, then a bit slower, and finally someone around your current laptimes.. the ghosts can help with different approaches on certain corners etc.. its surprising how a slight change of habit can make you faster in some areas of some tracks.. try various ghosts if you struggle on one track more than others etc.. and swap the slowest when you beat that ghost. It will push you up the leader-board.
you can even pit in and 'change driver' and sit in car and see what revs he is in/gears he uses when you struggle on a new track.. (if AI is set to 100 he will be fast enough to learn a few things from.. like higher gears than normal on some bends.. i noticed that, thought wtf!! tried it and it does work for the better at the right speeds in certain cars in some places.. gears/speeds being the key obviously as im sure you know...) AI is not the best to learn from, but on some bends its good to see other tactics.
But we are not robots, even in timetrial when its just you (& ghosts), its very difficult to be the exact same on each bend.
Frame of mind can also help, just enjoy it, calm & focused works for me when i can be that way :) but i get mad with myself so many times due to my 'mistakes'... its hard to stay in the right frame for long in my house... i blame my pedals for little feedback.. but i know its me :)

but thats just all the personal fine-tuning that comes after knowing a track & car well enough to concentrate on times.
Nothing helps more than enjoying it tho, so have fun :)

blinkngone
25-07-2017, 02:03
You might want to consider one of the fast road cars to start with. The Audi R8 V10 Plus, The Vantage GT12, or the Mercedes SLS AMG ,some of the settings are locked so you could focus on your driving and learning the tracks more. When you start adjusting you could work on the springs first and then go to the damper page. These cars are almost as quick as the GT4's and when you get comfortable with these you could try the Ruf Rt12(really fun but you have to power slide it). The GT3's are the most popular cars but they are really complicated to set up to get the fast times at most tracks. There are also hundreds of really good people driving these and some have have had over 2 years practicing their set ups/driving and combined with the track knowledge moving up the leaderboard is going to challenge you. The Gumpert Apollo S is really fast, near GT3 fast but much more complicated to set up and run than the other road cars. For me the Audi is the most forgiving of mistakes while the Ruf and Apollo will punish you for errors. I would also practice at one track, make this your home track and when you have mastered it move on to another. Some of your settings will transfer to other tracks and then you could fine tune them for that particular track. The Bentley Speed 8 is a good car when you want to try a prototype.

dault3883
25-07-2017, 02:12
You might want to consider one of the fast road cars to start with. The Audi R8 V10 Plus, The Vantage GT12, or the Mercedes SLS AMG ,some of the settings are locked so you could focus on your driving and learning the tracks more. When you start adjusting you could work on the springs first and then go to the damper page. These cars are almost as quick as the GT4's and when you get comfortable with these you could try the Ruf Rt12(really fun but you have to power slide it). The GT3's are the most popular cars but they are really complicated to set up to get the fast times at most tracks. There are also hundreds of really good people driving these and some have have had over 2 years practicing their set ups/driving and combined with the track knowledge moving up the leaderboard is going to challenge you. The Gumpert Apollo S is really fast, near GT3 fast but much more complicated to set up and run than the other road cars. For me the Audi is the most forgiving of mistakes while the Ruf and Apollo will punish you for errors. I would also practice at one track, make this your home track and when you have mastered it move on to another. Some of your settings will transfer to other tracks and then you could fine tune them for that particular track. The Bentley Speed 8 is a good car when you want to try a prototype.

agreed and the McLaren Mp4-12C GT3 car is really fast right out of the box too

hkraft300
25-07-2017, 08:25
The Bentley Speed 8 is a good car when you want to try a prototype.

I'd choose GT4 over road A cars. Road A cars have too much power, not enough brakes and tyres. I find the GT4 cars easier to drive. Or go to Road B/C cars.

I'd also recommend an LMP2 car over the Bentley 8 to start prototypes. Oreca is much easier and comes with warmed tyres, where the 626HP Bentley on cold tyres is a handful. The Bentley 8 is a great car to drive once you've done a few warm up laps though. In saying that: if you throw yourself in the deep end and get comfortable with the Bentley Speed 8, you'll be quick in all the prototypes.

VelvetTorpedo
25-07-2017, 12:37
the GT4 Ginetta is a dream to drive. The FFB is great and you know you hit a corner well when you have a smile on your face.

Alfisti
25-07-2017, 13:09
agreed and the McLaren Mp4-12C GT3 car is really fast right out of the box too

That's my go-to car, lots of grip, good balance and responds to changes. Not the absolute fastest in a straight line though.

Alfisti
25-07-2017, 13:10
For a good car to start with I highly recommend the BMW touring car, 320 or something it is called with about 300HP. Fast enough but slow enough.

dault3883
25-07-2017, 14:46
That's my go-to car, lots of grip, good balance and responds to changes. Not the absolute fastest in a straight line though.

maybe not but shes pretty good out of the box and a good car to get used to gt3 cars with

ossyoscar
26-07-2017, 07:08
FIRST POST HAS BEEN UPDATED with your recommendations - check it out, review it, write down the things I forgot about and tell me is it any good :)

Also, I just won my first nordschleife race in Sierra Cosworth :D

racesafegrandad
26-07-2017, 12:31
Also, I just won my first nordschleife race in Sierra Cosworth :D

That Champaign must have tasted sweet!

ossyoscar
26-07-2017, 12:35
That Champaign must have tasted sweet!

Don't know really, after crossing the line I fainted from exhaustion

VonSchwerin
28-07-2017, 16:48
FIRST POST HAS BEEN UPDATED with your recommendations - check it out, review it, write down the things I forgot about and tell me is it any good :)

Also, I just won my first nordschleife race in Sierra Cosworth :D

Well done! You are on your way!!
The book that i refered to by Ross Bentley is "Ultimate speedsecrets" 336 pages, the one on the net is a quickfix if you dont have the patience :)

ossyoscar
08-08-2017, 10:57
the one on the net is a quickfix if you dont have the patience :)

Exactly :D

While online, a question came up about good startup cars - anymore suggestions? Here I found BAC, M1, Audi r8 (pfff debateble), gt4 is absolute max for a rookie. Need cars that are easy to control, and cars with very particular yet managable specifics like Mercedes-Benz 300SL.

As of track - My favorite is easy brno - best for apex to apex driving

MULTIVITZ
12-08-2017, 20:53
Personally, I only enjoy a car if it has been tuned well. All the cars in the game are magic, but it's a stimulator, so just take some of the guys car choice suggestions and drive. Changing the steering ratio to a slower setting has a massive effect on the cars turn in rate and may stop you overdriving the tyres. Not nice when they're cold, tyre graining is a possibility, not that anyone notices!

Shogun
11-09-2017, 08:31
Realy goods advices, thank you for the link