PDA

View Full Version : How does Project Cars 2 compare to other sims?



rosko
22-07-2017, 08:45
So strictly talking about physics & FFB is it in anyway similar to anything else out there including pcars1?

Fanapryde
22-07-2017, 09:15
So strictly talking about physics & FFB is it in anyway similar to anything else out there including pcars1?

I read a quote saying pCars 2 is a more polished RF2 with much better FFB...
If that is correct, it will be the ultra sim for me...
To top it off, R3E sounds would be welcome too... :barbershop_quartet_

Roger Prynne
22-07-2017, 09:49
So strictly talking about physics & FFB is it in anyway similar to anything else out there including pcars1?

Nope, it's miles better, but then I'm biased.

Mad Al
22-07-2017, 10:42
So strictly talking about physics & FFB is it in anyway similar to anything else out there including pcars1?

That depends entirely on if, "can I get it to feel like AC" is your definition of similar, or if you trust the devs to get real life drivers opinion of cars and then try (as bloody difficult as that is) to get every wheel to at least give a sense of that feedback (for obvious reasons, there are massive differences in the characteristics of different wheels, so a gear drive feels different to belt to DD, etc.).
FFB is, to a large extent, personal taste (it really shouldn't be and you should just have to learn to live with the feel of each car, not try to make them all feel the same)
I'll also add, how much of the "added extras" you have in something like AC will define that as PC2 may not have all those (having seen people insist on turning slip effects to 100 and tick enhanced understeer and swear blind that somehow that's how they think it feels IRL?!?...)

Overall, will you like the FFB, I've no idea... will it feel like a.n.other game/sim.. yes/no/maybe.. depends on how you have the other game/sim setup and if you can match that with a few adjustment to the few sliders in game, or by using custom FFB, which is still available and I'm sure Jack Spade will come up with some stuff to satiate those who crave whatever it was they liked about previous versions for PC1.

Physics wise, it's fine.. some of the stuff is carried over from PC1 in terms of the maths and solvers used (chassis), but there are changes in plenty of areas (dampers, drivetrain and tyres immediately spring to mind) that will make everything feel better and react more accurately to setup changes (as well as removing as many exploits as it's humanly possible to find...)

All I can say is, buy it, try it.. give it a fair crack of the whip..


Maybe I should add the disclaimer.. SMS have given me money.... and I have two Project CARS shirts..

Roger Prynne
22-07-2017, 10:53
I think my reply was better :moody:

Not really.

rosko
22-07-2017, 12:05
I read a quote saying pCars 2 is a more polished RF2 with much better FFB...
If that is correct, it will be the ultra sim for me...
To top it off, R3E sounds would be welcome too... :barbershop_quartet_

Oh yeah sure that would be the ultimate, but I only read that from PRC contributors who happen to be SMS employees.

rosko
22-07-2017, 12:38
That depends entirely on if, "can I get it to feel like AC" is your definition of similar, or if you trust the devs to get real life drivers opinion of cars and then try (as bloody difficult as that is) to get every wheel to at least give a sense of that feedback (for obvious reasons, there are massive differences in the characteristics of different wheels, so a gear drive feels different to belt to DD, etc.).
FFB is, to a large extent, personal taste (it really shouldn't be and you should just have to learn to live with the feel of each car, not try to make them all feel the same)
I'll also add, how much of the "added extras" you have in something like AC will define that as PC2 may not have all those (having seen people insist on turning slip effects to 100 and tick enhanced understeer and swear blind that somehow that's how they think it feels IRL?!?...)

Overall, will you like the FFB, I've no idea... will it feel like a.n.other game/sim.. yes/no/maybe.. depends on how you have the other game/sim setup and if you can match that with a few adjustment to the few sliders in game, or by using custom FFB, which is still available and I'm sure Jack Spade will come up with some stuff to satiate those who crave whatever it was they liked about previous versions for PC1.

Physics wise, it's fine.. some of the stuff is carried over from PC1 in terms of the maths and solvers used (chassis), but there are changes in plenty of areas (dampers, drivetrain and tyres immediately spring to mind) that will make everything feel better and react more accurately to setup changes (as well as removing as many exploits as it's humanly possible to find...)

All I can say is, buy it, try it.. give it a fair crack of the whip..


Maybe I should add the disclaimer.. SMS have given me money.... and I have two Project CARS shirts..

Well AC is quite distinctive in its FFB & handling like all sims feel different to me so i wondering it has any similarities not really if it is better. I guess what Austin says about the FFB got me wondering if anyone else shared those thoughts.

Do i trust the devs to get it right? tbh no. :) Thats not to say i think they are not putting a huge effort into getting it right they clearly are, I just didn't rate the first game & they did the same with pro driver & complex tyre model that time so there is no guarantee based on that for me.

The changes made to the tyre model & drive train sounds like the right improvement to take things forward & could make all the difference. I expect it to have more grip levels than other sims & that's fine as long as the lap times are not way too fast like in the first game.

FFB in pcars one i declared broken in the end as i just couldn't get what i thought felt normal. I would say most of my 400 hours in pcars 1 was endlessly trying to get the ffb to work. Something was always missing or just felt odd. Most of the issues were around how grip was portrayed or simply wasn't which is very important in a simulator. This to me is why rfactor2 ffb is above the rest as you feel you can use the limit more, in pcars the limit is a murky place. So i hope this is addressed although i understand there are no changes to the ffb engine so i hope i'm wrong about it being broken.:eek:

Mahjik
22-07-2017, 13:19
At the end of the day, no matter what anyone writes in this thread, you are going to have your own opinion when it's released. Someone could tell you it's the best thing since time travel, but maybe to you, it's not.

Mad Al
22-07-2017, 13:36
Well AC is quite distinctive in its FFB & handling like all sims feel different to me so i wondering it has any similarities not really if it is better. I guess what Austin says about the FFB got me wondering if anyone else shared those thoughts.

Do i trust the devs to get it right? tbh no. :) Thats not to say i think they are not putting a huge effort into getting it right they clearly are, I just didn't rate the first game & they did the same with pro driver & complex tyre model that time so there is no guarantee based on that for me.

The changes made to the tyre model & drive train sounds like the right improvement to take things forward & could make all the difference. I expect it to have more grip levels than other sims & that's fine as long as the lap times are not way too fast like in the first game.

FFB in pcars one i declared broken in the end as i just couldn't get what i thought felt normal. I would say most of my 400 hours in pcars 1 was endlessly trying to get the ffb to work. Something was always missing or just felt odd. Most of the issues were around how grip was portrayed or simply wasn't which is very important in a simulator. This to me is why rfactor2 ffb is above the rest as you feel you can use the limit more, in pcars the limit is a murky place. So i hope this is addressed although i understand there are no changes to the ffb engine so i hope i'm wrong about it being broken.:eek:

That's where a distinction between FFB and the way the tyre gives up grip can be very confused...

Take a vehicle and drive it on two different makes of tyre, one may feel really edgy on the limit, the other may just go into a gentle slide as it goes over the limit and you really can't tell where the limit is.. in the end potentially the exact same maximum grip in the same conditions.. but feel wise they can be a mile apart.

And can I ask if you had to dig under the hood to get AC feeling how you wanted it to... and do you wind up any of the sliders for the "extras" (and please don't tell me you've ticked the understeer fade ;))

rosko
22-07-2017, 13:50
That's where a distinction between FFB and the way the tyre gives up grip can be very confused...

Take a vehicle and drive it on two different makes of tyre, one may feel really edgy on the limit, the other may just go into a gentle slide as it goes over the limit and you really can't tell where the limit is.. in the end potentially the exact same maximum grip in the same conditions.. but feel wise they can be a mile apart.

And can I ask if you had to dig under the hood to get AC feeling how you wanted it to... and do you wind up any of the sliders for the "extras" (and please don't tell me you've ticked the understeer fade ;))

No understeer in ac. road effects 0%. Slip 20%.

I run a LUT file that i manually edited although i'm thinking of ditching it.

breyzipp
22-07-2017, 14:51
So many racing games and they all have something great IMO. If I just go through my collection of racing games on my XBox and I name the biggest strength of each one it goes like this :

Project CARS : best motorsport immersion
Assetto Corsa : best handling with a wheel
Dirt series : rally / rallycross immersion
F1 2016 : those expensive 10+ tracks not in any other racing game
Forza Motorsport series : high level of polish
Forza Horizon series : musical festival atmosphere
Need for Speed 2015 : visual car customization
The Crew : it was free!
World of Tanks : you can race AND shoot at stuff! ;)


Won't comment on all of them but that "best motorsport immersion" behind Project CARS is really what does it for me. It's IMO also the greatest compliment I gave to any of those games on that list since immersion means that everything feels right and authentic. And a lot of things contribute to that like graphics, sound, environment, handling, career mode, cars, tracks... everything.

When PCARS 2 comes out it will mainly be a better game than PCARS 1 but it won't change anything on that list to be honest. But for sure it will be my most favorite racing game (by a large margin) for a long time to come.

Mad Al
22-07-2017, 15:04
The Crew : it was free!


That sounds familiar...

rosko
22-07-2017, 15:09
When PCARS 2 comes out it will mainly be a better game than PCARS 1 but it won't change anything on that list to be honest. But for sure it will be my most favorite racing game (by a large margin) for a long time to come.

So this from experience playing it?

RoccoTTS
22-07-2017, 16:15
So many racing games and they all have something great IMO. If I just go through my collection of racing games on my XBox and I name the biggest strength of each one it goes like this :

Project CARS : best motorsport immersion
Assetto Corsa : best handling with a wheel
Dirt series : rally / rallycross immersion
F1 2016 : those expensive 10+ tracks not in any other racing game
Forza Motorsport series : high level of polish
Forza Horizon series : musical festival atmosphere
Need for Speed 2015 : visual car customization
The Crew : it was free!
World of Tanks : you can race AND shoot at stuff! ;)


Won't comment on all of them but that "best motorsport immersion" behind Project CARS is really what does it for me. It's IMO also the greatest compliment I gave to any of those games on that list since immersion means that everything feels right and authentic. And a lot of things contribute to that like graphics, sound, environment, handling, career mode, cars, tracks... everything.

When PCARS 2 comes out it will mainly be a better game than PCARS 1 but it won't change anything on that list to be honest. But for sure it will be my most favorite racing game (by a large margin) for a long time to come.
I'm going to add just 1 pc only game :
Raceroom Racing Experience : Best sound and exclusive DTM and WTCC license.

Fanapryde
22-07-2017, 20:45
I'm going to add just 1 pc only game :
Raceroom Racing Experience : Best sound and exclusive DTM and WTCC license.
I'll add two more for PC:
rF2 and AMS, both with proper triple screen support...
R3E has the best sound, no doubt, but that is less important for me since I am driving in cockpit view (which is supposed to have muffled sound due to helmets and ear protection).
R3E indeed has DTM (which is not what it used to be), and WTCC, but sadly lacks the tracks to replicate the series. It lacks several other fearures (tire pressure adjustment), it has no night racing, UI is really not the best to say the least, no info about the cars, very limited liveries (that need to be bought seperately), the shop is a complete mess, though the game is free to play, it can get pretty expensive, you can't play offline, not a great choice of tracks, mostly poorly detailed car interiors (maybe therefor you can't look up or down), poor HUD...
New cars were promised over a year ago, still no sign of them (not talking about the new Porsche license).
And I can go on for a while...

Vettel-ish
03-08-2017, 15:59
I think F1 16 does a better job with the F1 stuff, however to be fair to PC they only really need 10 cars and 20 tracks. Not 150 and 80 or so. Project cars is very good. GT6 will be interesting though. I find that the single player was better with GT and the online was better with PC

banner77amc
03-08-2017, 19:22
I think I need to add two more to Brey's list because of my PS4

GranTurismo 6 - best automotive immersion (lacks proper sound, many cars lack interiors, but has 1000+ cars, photo mode is good)
Dirt Rally / Dirt 4 - best rally racing game (hard but fun)

honespc
03-08-2017, 20:29
Assetto Corsa : best handling with a wheel
No way. That goes to Project Cars too. Perhaps you were referring to the force feedback effects on assetto if you play with a wheel. Then yes, but little else than that.

Also, Dirt rally with physics V1 has the best handling off road ever. Richard Burns rally was another game made difficult just for the sake of making things unrealistically difficult, like assetto does with most of the cars it features, and the immense unfixable broken mess its tyre model is.

Dirt rally was indeed one of the greatest surprises ever, and more coming from the Codemasters we have been suffering since they adopted the ego engine and began with Dirt.


I think F1 16 does a better job with the F1 stuff, however to be fair to PC they only really need 10 cars and 20 tracks. Not 150 and 80 or so. Project cars is very good. GT6 will be interesting though. I find that the single player was better with GT and the online was better with PCThey still use same outdated engine and physics. Birmingham Studio is just..., a disgrace in all terms. And have you seen '17? Of course more of the same, even with the new Evolution Studios guys lurking around in there now.

lol Project Cars FB physics already put to shame almost all open wheel racing you may find in any game. Codemasters F1 games are totally outdated.

BTW I still find hard to believe FB got ditched in pc2. Literally, best open wheel physics in the entire game and they cut it, and for Formula Renault?. Unbelievable.

hkraft300
03-08-2017, 22:53
GranTurismo 6 - best automotive immersion (lacks proper sound, many cars lack interiors...

Contradicting yourself aren't you? :p



BTW I still find hard to believe FB got ditched in pc2. Literally, best open wheel physics in the entire game and they cut it, and for Formula Renault?. Unbelievable.

The FR3.5 grew on me faster than the FB.
The huge difference in handling between the tyre compounds made the FB interesting.

The FR3.5 is a tuners delight though. Get the Aero right and it sticks.

VelvetTorpedo
04-08-2017, 12:20
For those who have not tried Automobilista, the FFB and sound are out of this world. I'd put it way ahead of Assetto Corsa personally.

banner77amc
04-08-2017, 12:42
[QUOTE=hkraft300;1348906]Contradicting yourself aren't you? :p

Well GranTurismo is a world of contradiction... best contradictory immersion into automobilia should be what I said

Fanapryde
04-08-2017, 12:48
For those who have not tried Automobilista, the FFB and sound are out of this world. I'd put it way ahead of Assetto Corsa personally.
FFB: :yes: (though rF2 even does a slightly better job).
Sound: :no: It does not even have surround at the moment (though my Logitech Z906 is doing its utmost best to replicate surround sound in AMS and I do hear different sounds through the different speakers, be it sometimes from the wrong one ... :highly_amused:

If you want sound like it is supposed to be, try R3E. Nothing can top these car sounds atm... The environment sound is already really good in pCars, same level as R3E.

RaceNut
07-08-2017, 17:24
FFB: :yes: (though rF2 even does a slightly better job).
Sound: :no: It does not even have surround at the moment (though my Logitech Z906 is doing its utmost best to replicate surround sound in AMS and I do hear different sounds through the different speakers, be it sometimes from the wrong one ... :highly_amused:

If you want sound like it is supposed to be, try R3E. Nothing can top these car sounds atm... The environment sound is already really good in pCars, same level as R3E.

I think Dirt Rally has audio that surpasses R3E by quite a bit; it has detail and polish well beyond R3E. Not only are the samples (most) more accurate and better quality but, the environmental aspects like interior resonance, approach / departure and overall exhaust effects (exterior resonance / backfires, etc.) are superior IMO.

Fanapryde
07-08-2017, 17:42
I think Dirt Rally has audio that surpasses R3E by quite a bit; it has detail and polish well beyond R3E. Not only are the samples (most) more accurate and better quality but, the environmental aspects like interior resonance, approach / departure and overall exhaust effects (exterior resonance / backfires, etc.) are superior IMO.
Could be, I don't have DR, nor have I tried it.
But from pCars, AC, RF2, AMS, R3E (the five sims I use) R3E is a clear winner as far as sound goes...