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mbercot
04-08-2017, 01:57
As somebody coming from Forza, I would like to know from who have already tested PCARS 2: does it have the braking line just like in Forza? For what I see in YouTube videos the line does not give enough information for one to drive solely based on it, but I don't know what settings the guys were using. Here both my stepfather and I play Forza (I used to play PC sim racing games from GPL to rFactor 2 in the past too, but sold my wheel), we are in doubt whether to get Forza 7 or Project CARS 2. For what I've seen so far on the internet, PC2 is a very easy choice for me, once as it's perfectly playable with a controller I have no problems [edit: in relation to the first Project CARS], but since my stepfather is much more of a casual gamer than I am, I'm pretty sure the lack of a braking line that works like in Forza would drive him away from the game, and given the huge game prices in my country (Brazil, btw sorry for the terrible english) that is something I really do not want to happen.

Oh, another question I would have is about how are the most powerful race cars of the game feeling with a controller. I know it's a lot subjective though. Actually, the more details as how the game handles in a controller when compared to Forza would make my choice much easier.

Thanks :).

Cheesenium
04-08-2017, 03:33
The gamepad input is much improved for me in my honest opinion. Cars feel less twitchy to control compared to Pcars 1 while you get more finer level of controls too. There are some physics improvements that I personally find it more manageable for some cars to push it near the limit.

Regarding your second question, I still have trouble with some of the most powerful cars in the game but that is expected because they are known to be difficult to drive. Most of them are vintage vehicles, like Group Cs that I find it hard to drive or you need some finesse in controlling the throttle and sticks. Most road cars and GTs are generally quite easy for me.

I only test Pcars 2 with Real Assists setting so if you turn on the assists in Pcars 2, I think even the difficult cars is manageable if not easy.

I doubt it will be as easy as Forza as Forza is designed to be pickup and play. However, I find Forza's handling on the edge tend to be a bit more snappy than Pcars if you push the car to the edge.

Trippul G
04-08-2017, 05:00
I'm actually curious to know more about the braking line as well. In most other similar games I've played (GT, Forza, F1, etc), if you've got it set to braking only, the line will fade in and start to change color (e.g. from orange to a darker red), signifying the need for heavier braking. It'll start to show slightly as you approach the braking zone, stay on fully visible through the zone, and then change color and fade out as you exit and get back on the throttle.

The few PC2 videos I've seen which do show the line, it doesn't really seem to behave like I've just described. Would be nice to get some clarification on this.

GenBrien
04-08-2017, 11:57
Back in the days when I was playing Forza4(last Forza I played), I was racing with only the braking line ON.
It was nearly perfect. You could be sure that if you missed the red braking line by just a couple of feet you would miss the turn, but if you nailed it and stayed on the RED/YELLOW limit you were at optimum speed and were able to make some good lap times.

I dont know how they made the line in Pcars2, but in Pcars1 it was a big let down. The red zone was way too soon(so not very good to establish good braking point reference), and it was not very good at giving you optimal speed during the turn.
I hope they improved it for Pcars2

breyzipp
05-08-2017, 21:21
I don't have access to Project CARS 2 but I played in Project CARS 1 with the braking line for a while. I think you could set it to always on, always off or during braking. There is also colour variations from green to red so I would not see why this would be changed for Project CARS 2.

However, what I absolutely love in Project CARS 1 is the coloring arrows on screen and I believe I have seen gameplay footage from Project CARS 2 as well with those arrows (can anyone from WMD2 confirm this?). If you approach a corner in a speed that is becoming a bit high, you get a small arrow on screen that could be orange or red, in case it's red you better start braking really soon. :) And if you go into a corner where your speed is fine then there is no arrow. You can see this in the following video from PCARS1 (at Nurburgring) where I start braking a bit too late at the first corner and this red arrow shows up on screen. I react to that arrow and still manage to brake in time to make the corner.

http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/Breyzipp/video/33982655

By the way that is me playing PCARS 1 with a controller on my XBox, this is supposed to be the worse platform and worse input device, I think I'm not doing that bad huh, it sure is fun and that is all that matters. Knowing that for PCARS 2 the controller usage is even vastly improved over the original I'm confident it will work just fine.

You can use that arrow (turn indicator) together with the braking line as well or just the way I do, only the arrow. I only stopped using the braking line myself earlier this year and that arrow indicator really helps me getting used to not having the braking line anymore. If you stepfather needs it, just let him (on a second profile). But for you, I really urge you to try to drop the braking line, the game feels a lot more fun that way! Of course in the beginning you need to lower AI difficulty as well but you will get used to not having the line quite fast and you wouldn't want to have it back anymore. :)

As far as Project CARS 2 vs Forza 7 goes. If you already own Forza 6 then for sure don't get Forza 7 since that is just lame copy/paste from Turn 10 from one game to another. Forza 7 is also more an arcade game where Project CARS is more a simulation. Some key differences :

Assists: In Forza assists are generic. So you pick auto/manual, ABS, TC, ESP etc on a game-wide level and then just drive all the cars with it. It's so silly. In Project CARS you can do that as well BUT you can also put all these settings to 'REAL'. In real life GT3 cars for example have ABS on them, but GTE cars don't. And if you set ABS to 'REAL' then it will be on or off depending on which car you pop in. This is honestly THE MOST ANNOYING feature in Forza, it goes hand in hand with THE MOST RETARDED feature in Forza as well which is the rewind button.

Car classes: Project CARS 2 has all the car classes right. There is a difference between LMP1, LMP2, LMP3, LMP900. In Forza this is just 1 mixed bag called "endurance prototypes" so all the races are unrealistic. For the GT cars you have the classes GT1/GTE/GT3/GT4/GT5/GT Junior/RS01/Super Trofeo all as separate classes. This is again in Forza just 1 class called "modern GT". In Project CARS 2 you can properly set up realistic multiclass races like Le Mans for example: LMP1, LMP2 and GTE. In Forza that is simply not possible since there might be old LMP900s, a Super Trofeo and heck even a lost GT500 car in the mix as well.

Project CARS 2 also has DOUBLE the amount of locations (60+ is advertised and correct if you separate historical circuits or rallycross circuits, the sticky tracks thread here has 52 real geographic locations (for example Hockenheim modern GP/national/short Hockenheim classic GP and Hockenheim rallycross all just count as 1 geographic location on that list). There will be at least 4 track expansions as DLC as well, I think FM7 will have maxiumum 2. Ooh and it launches with only 30+ locations.

The one selling point for Forza though is it's 700+ car list, but realistically it's probably closer to 500 since they count every racing livery as a car. 10 Formula E cars which are exact copy/paste of one another (=Forza way) instead of just 1 car with 10 liveries (= Project CARS 2 way of doing it). 25 or something NASCAR cars which should have only been 3 as well. And there are so many race cars with 2 or 3 liveries counting as cars. Nevertheless, the car count is still bigger in Forza.

Project CARS to me feels like I'm being part of a realistic race. Forza to me feels like I'm playing an arcade game that want to look like a sim (but fails badly).

IMO get Project CARS 2 now and if a year later you feel like more of an arcade game then buy Forza Horizon 4 in 2018. The Horizon spin-off from Forza Motorsport is IMO a lot better than Motorsport itself.

Anyway, as someone who owns FM5, FM6, FH2, FH3 and Project CARS 1, these are my 2 cents on the choice of the game.

And remember, even though Project CARS 2 is a simulation with realistic handling, you can still choose to switch on all assists, driving line, skip practice and qualifying sessions, switch off penalties and damage etc. If you want you can dub it down to the level of Forza. But in Forza you cannot improve the settings to make it a realistic game. :)

If you want some more info on the career mode, this is also a really nice info video :


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CC9OvVob9e4

And as far as gameplay videos go, there is a sticky thread here with tons of videos.

Trippul G
06-08-2017, 01:33
^^Never used the Turn Indicators...to me, it seems more arcadey having a graphic of a sign pop up in your face. But to each his own.

As far as the braking line in PCARS2, I haven't seen anything that looks like Forza's line (or even the implementation from PCARS1, for that matter). All I've seen are some very faint arrows on the ground which only seem to show up once you're already in the corner (so, not sure how that's supposed to help), and it looks like they're either a shade of blue or red (going too slow / fast, I would assume), or they don't show up at all (going the correct speed). I'm really hoping the option is there for something similar to Forza's or at least PCARS1's line, or I think a lot of potential buyers are going to be put off.

I agree with most of your assessment of PCARS vs Forza, however I do have to disagree about the rewind feature. A lot of people view it as lame, a cheat, a safety net, etc. I don't view it that way, because I don't use it that way. I never use it in a race, but where I find it useful is when I'm tuning a car or trying to learn a specific section of track (or both)...I can for example soften my springs to better attack a particular high-curbed chicane, run through, see how it feels, rewind, make another adjustment, run it through, rewind, etc. It becomes merely a tool to speed up the feedback loop so that I can get back to doing what I really want to be doing, which is racing.

mbercot
06-08-2017, 02:58
Thank you for the answers guys, I'm surely taking all of them into consideration.

About my personal approach, I'm honestly a huge Gran Turismo fan (although most of my history is with rFactor and equivalents), since Forza 4 I try to find this feeling with Forza, but it always misses something, and when they fix one thing, they break another. For Forza 5 and 6 they fixed the crazy slides but ruined the behavior of the brakes for controller -- I even wrote a post in Forza's forum about it today. It's terrible to have to "moderate" the brake in a trigger like the XB1's controller and the ABS is realistic enough to destroy my immersion, an ABS which I could just slam the button and see the braking happening like in F1 Challenge '99-'02 or Gran Turismo 4 would already make me happy like a kid in a toy store. Also, Forza is slowly losing its "car encyclopedia" feel.

I can't go back to GT itself because the series changed a lot its approach :( -- besides I already have the XB1. I don't feel like going back to a gaming wheel and hardcore sim racing again either, although I still appreciate it. I want a game where I could replicate Gran Turismo (or even F1C '99-'02 which I truly loved) gameplay in a controller and driving aids on, but that if needed (if someday I change my mind about the wheel) could act as a strong simulator, and of course, that my stepfather who is a very casual gamer can play and enjoy (as stated in the first post). Here is when Project CARS 2 comes into play.

Right after its release, I had a chance of playing the first Project CARS in a friend's house a few times, with a wheel, really liked the game, best career mode I've ever seen by far, although the AI was insane (well, I play a game with that damn Drivatars so I can't say much, LOL), I never played it with the braking line though. All of this make my expectations for PC 2 very clean: I want a GT gameplay once I turn the driving aids on but with PC 1 career mode.

For the answers + videos, it seems like PC 2 will be my choice, the Forza developers have a lot of work to do and it doesn't seem to have evolved much from Forza 6 judging from the few videos avaliable, and in the things that it did, Project CARS also did.

Again, thanks for the answers, I'll still wait for more before I decide, but there is a big chance you guys just sold me Project CARS 2.

breyzipp
06-08-2017, 08:08
Hey Trippul, using the rewind button for tuning, never thought about it since I'm not a tuner myself but yeah I can see some benefit in there. :) I'll be honest and admit I used it in Horizon 3 for example to get a 3 star rating on a danger sign jump (if the approach or landing went wrong) or a drifting zone when I did a good first part but screwed up the last part (since I'm so bad and inconsistent at drifting). But in the Motorsport series I never used it, it's switched off from day one and then in FM6 you can use one of these permanent bonus cards to get some extra credits or something (don't even remember which one exactly) but where one of the requirements was to switch rewind off. :) Or the one for cockpit view was also an easy one since I always played that way.

Trippul G
06-08-2017, 14:45
Hey Trippul, using the rewind button for tuning, never thought about it since I'm not a tuner myself but yeah I can see some benefit in there. :) I'll be honest and admit I used it in Horizon 3 for example to get a 3 star rating on a danger sign jump (if the approach or landing went wrong) or a drifting zone when I did a good first part but screwed up the last part (since I'm so bad and inconsistent at drifting). But in the Motorsport series I never used it, it's switched off from day one and then in FM6 you can use one of these permanent bonus cards to get some extra credits or something (don't even remember which one exactly) but where one of the requirements was to switch rewind off. :) Or the one for cockpit view was also an easy one since I always played that way.

Yeah, rewind can be very handy, it's got a bad rap from a lot of the "hardcore" crowd, but it's all in how (and when) you use it.

I was never a fan of those "mod cards" where you get like "+8% engine power at Road America" or whatever. One, they just felt super cheap and gimmicky to use, and two, if you used them, your time would be counted as a "dirty lap" on the leaderboards. For me, that's half the fun, trying to climb to the top amongst my friends.

Forza Motorsport honestly has felt stagnant to me for a while now. Same content, same cars, same format of having to start out in some mediocre hatchback, win a bunch of three lap sprint "races" where you always start either mid pack or dead last, because qualifying isn't even a thing...all work your way up to the next group of slightly better cars, where you lather, rinse, repeat.

PCARS1 has been a breath of fresh air to me, as someone who has been wanting a (console) game that takes racing more seriously and doesn't treat us like children. The idea of "here's everything, it's all unlocked, go nuts!" is very appealing to me. Plus the fact that PCARS (and soon, PCARS2) have full practice and quali sessions, you have to worry about things like fuel loads, pit strategies, changing weather and track / atmospheric conditions, not to mention proper race cars broken up into proper racing classes as opposed to Forza where you could be racing a hodgepodge of GT1, GT2, GT3, GTE, JGTC, and who knows what else, all in the same class. Plus Forza has a tendency to like to include oddball vehicles like a Ford Pinto or a Pontiac Aztec in their lineup, especially in their DLC packs. Stuff like that is fine in a less serious game like Horizon, but I don't want it in my "big boy" racing game lol.

All these things considered, I'm so glad SMS have come along and given enthusiasts of real racing something to get excited about. Roll on, September 22nd! :cool:

breyzipp
06-08-2017, 20:00
Yeah agree on the mod cards, I like the challenging ones that doesn't give a benefit (like assists off, damage on, cockpit view etc) or just give a credit or reputation boost but the bonus ones are indeed lame. And fully agree on the dirty lap nonsense from the cards, it was supposed to be fixed if you didn't use an enhance mod card that the lap wasn't dirty but i don't know if that all worked. But the leaderboards there doesn't interest me much since you can't see them for bare bone stock cars, only class-upgraded monstrosities. :)

Fully agree on the Motorsport series being stagnant, that's also why I recommended our friend here if he has FM6 already there is little to no point in getting FM7. You get a few new cars and tracks but you loose Toyota road cars. :P

Agree 100% on what you said about PCARS 1 as well, feels exactly the same here for me and indeed I'm fed up with Turn 10 babysitting the community with all their hand holding assists and features. They got so much potential with that car roster but these hundreds of cars sit there just captured in this dull shell of a game. Or well, it's fun to start out with but once you are interested in some more serious racing, Forza's limitations become very obvious and annoying. And those devs not communicating at all with the community is not making things better.

Can't wait for september 22th!

FS7
07-08-2017, 00:33
Rewind is a great tool to learn tracks in time trial, it saves a lot of time imo.