PDA

View Full Version : Career Mode Survival.



rosko
14-08-2017, 21:38
I wish there was harcore career mode. Like you have finite money (based on details you give at the start to ascertain your social class)& then manage that money to spend on tires, promotion, fuel etc. Any damage would also cost you money as well as injury or death if severe enough. You would also lose your licence for stupid driving. You would be offered drives based only on your results. For most of us we will never go beyond club racing or maybe driving ring taxis round the Nords but some more talented or lucky may progress to the top tiers.

snipeme77
14-08-2017, 22:36
I wish there was harcore career mode. Like you have finite money (based on details you give at the start to ascertain your social class)& then manage that money to spend on tires, promotion, fuel etc. Any damage would also cost you money as well as injury or death if severe enough. You would also lose your licence for stupid driving. You would be offered drives based only on your results. For most of us we will never go beyond club racing or maybe driving ring taxis round the Nords but some more talented or lucky may progress to the top tiers.

Who knows, as raving games run out of tracks and cars to license and are in need of new gimmicks, you may get a RPG style career mode for racing games.

Personally I would like to see a narrative driven the story with all the politics, back door backstabing that you see in the real life. Although I doubt it's going to happen with license cars, I'd like to see a game with a permanent death aspect. Get involved the certain kind of crash, car burst's into flames, you have to quicky activate your fire retardation system, and get out of the car before you burn alive, possibly killing a driver and changing the story ark in a heavy rain sort of way. I really wish SMS had a pitching idea thread. I'd love to show this game that I created in my head that I'll never have the money or skills to make. It would be a racing game with Metal Gear Solid levels of detail and a heavy rain style story where every accident, decision, and action has consequences

Javaniceday
15-08-2017, 00:12
I wish there was harcore career mode. Like you have finite money (based on details you give at the start to ascertain your social class)& then manage that money to spend on tires, promotion, fuel etc. Any damage would also cost you money as well as injury or death if severe enough.

I dig this idea. Sounds really ambitious, but older games like Nascar Thunder 2003 had features like these. My wishes are more modest.

At the very least, I want the weather to not be scripted, so going through the same championship a 2nd time wouldn't be repetitive/predictable, and to be rewarded for doing well in races, not just winning the championship. That's how it worked in pcars1 and it killed immersion.

I've heard that getting top 3 in the champ is how you move up in tiers, which is... a lazy way of doing it but it might be good enough, but no confirmation from sms.

Ideally, each team would have rankings, and each would have their own requirements of what you have to accomplish before they offer you a ride. win 3 championships in the same tier, win % of races in a lower tier, do well in a slower team - It'd be complicated but with a good achievement system, these achievements would have real consequences in how you progress through the game.

Wishful thinking, at this point

FS7
15-08-2017, 01:13
When I read "career mode survival" the first thing that came to mind was a career mode with some sort of suicidal AI that tries to take out the player at all costs, and the player has to fight his way to the finish line. Based on player feedback on PCars2 AI I'd say this is unlikely to happen.

For something hardcore maybe SMS could implement some Hellblade-like feature where your save is deleted if you crash your car too many times. :P

snipeme77
15-08-2017, 01:34
When I read "career mode survival" the first thing that came to mind was a career mode with some sort of suicidal AI that tries to take out the player at all costs, and the player has to fight his way to the finish line. Based on player feedback on PCars2 AI I'd say this is unlikely to happen.

For something hardcore maybe SMS could implement some Hellblade-like feature where your save is deleted if you crash your car too many times. :P

I would be okay with that set all the assist to real tire wear and damage on and everytime you total the car you have a chance of losing your save file.

honespc
15-08-2017, 13:53
I remember old Liverpool Studio F1 games for the playstation had really cool career modes, where if you screwed it up too often, specially in the beginning when you were getting only contracts as trial driver for x manufacturer, then chances for not getting any contract for teams may lead you to a "Game Over" screen, which was something unprecedented in a racing game.

The fact that the difficulty was really high in this career modes made it even better as a whole, as chances for failing and having to start a new career were actually many.

I don't understand why Devs are so worried now a days to punish players when it comes to these little details. Things like a "Game Over" screen only added to the fun, and to put more effort on next attempt.

Bealdor
15-08-2017, 13:59
I wish there was harcore career mode. Like you have finite money (based on details you give at the start to ascertain your social class)& then manage that money to spend on tires, promotion, fuel etc. Any damage would also cost you money as well as injury or death if severe enough. You would also lose your licence for stupid driving. You would be offered drives based only on your results. For most of us we will never go beyond club racing or maybe driving ring taxis round the Nords but some more talented or lucky may progress to the top tiers.

If you're going down the injury and death route you can say goodbye to your PEGI 3 rating (and a lot of manufacturer licences too) though.

SenorPez
15-08-2017, 14:20
To be fair, while it won't be coded in the game, the very nature of Project CARS (no progression gates, configurable settings, etc.) would make this a snap to write your own ruleset and basically make this happen with a series of Quick Race Weekends and external tracking. It could even be multiplayer.

For example, you could say you have $75k in liquid cash to join the Ginetta Jrs. series. Each race you run obviously costs you some money: Transport costs, crew costs, tyres, fuel, etc. Hopefully you can make it back with your race results. If you crash, well, that's going to cost you.
Add in a third party or web-based random "horseman of the apocalypse" to toss occasional wrenches into your carefully crafted plans (something breaks in the gearbox in quali so you don't have the top gear, your crew chief quits, etc.), and you've your game.

snipeme77
15-08-2017, 14:22
If you're going down the injury and death route you can say goodbye to your PEGI 3 rating (and a lot of manufacturer licences too) though.

Manufacturer licences would be the biggest problem with any story driven or RPG styled racing game. Car manufactures don't want to see drivers get burnt alive or pit crews being run over by their cars. (Despite the fact they were fine with it back in 2001 with Toca Pro Race Driver, and any movie ever.) So I'm sure the first few games made in this way will be dumbed down so characters can't die or be injured.

As for PEGI scores, who really cares? Here in the US, if a 10 year old wants a rated M game, all he has to do is buy a $____ gift card for amazon from a store, set up a account and just buy the dang thing, or buy a Xbox, PlayStation or Steam card and buy it that way. I'm sure it's mostly the same in Europe.

snipeme77
15-08-2017, 14:23
To be fair, while it won't be coded in the game, the very nature of Project CARS (no progression gates, configurable settings, etc.) would make this a snap to write your own ruleset and basically make this happen with a series of Quick Race Weekends and external tracking. It could even be multiplayer.

For example, you could say you have $75k in liquid cash to join the Ginetta Jrs. series. Each race you run obviously costs you some money: Transport costs, crew costs, tyres, fuel, etc. Hopefully you can make it back with your race results. If you crash, well, that's going to cost you.
Add in a third party or web-based random "horseman of the apocalypse" to toss occasional wrenches into your carefully crafted plans (something breaks in the gearbox in quali so you don't have the top gear, your crew chief quits, etc.), and you've your game.

D&D meets project cars lol

Mattze
15-08-2017, 17:05
I don't like the idea of a RPG-driven career mode in PCars. SMS should focus on things the driver doing and leave out the managing part to avoid an overkill. I understand that these options could be fun, but PCars is the wrong kind of game to realize this. I agree with the suggestions from Javaniceday. The players should motivated from the driver perspective to achieve new contracts and invitationals including a realistic reward system. The better your results are, the better the offers from faster teams you get. Otherwise your team should terminate your contract at the end of season if the results were too bad.

VelvetTorpedo
15-08-2017, 17:32
TOCA/Pro Race Driver had a pretty wild career mode from what I remember. This is from the wiki page:

"The game took a new direction, since the main game mode featured a plot (leading to the game being labelled as a "Car-PG") where the user took on the role of a fictional race driver called Ryan McKane, trying to make a name for himself in a multitude of car championships, all the while under the shadow of his more successful older brother and haunted by the death of his father on the racetrack (as witnessed by Ryan as a child)."

snipeme77
15-08-2017, 18:00
TOCA/Pro Race Driver had a pretty wild career mode from what I remember. This is from the wiki page:

"The game took a new direction, since the main game mode featured a plot (leading to the game being labelled as a "Car-PG") where the user took on the role of a fictional race driver called Ryan McKane, trying to make a name for himself in a multitude of car championships, all the while under the shadow of his more successful older brother and haunted by the death of his father on the racetrack (as witnessed by Ryan as a child)."

Yep, first moments after booting up the game. Ryan's dad crashes and his car explodes... couldn’t get away with that today! Lol.

Also Ryans crew chief gets run over. You know, normal stuff...

VelvetTorpedo
15-08-2017, 20:05
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZS07KZ1qGk

snipeme77
15-08-2017, 20:29
Thanks VelvetTorpedo! Good old 2000 era graphics!

Fight-Test
15-08-2017, 20:31
Motorsport Manager is a pretty good game to get the Racing Business fix. If your into race strategy and things like managing budgets, scouting for drivers, engineers, designers, building new buildings and building new parts and designing your car for the next season than its for you. When the race is going on you tell the drivers how to manage tires and fuel and its on the workshop with some great mods. It has 5 series (with dlc) and each series has a set of rules that covers around 25 things from width of tires(affects cost of tires for each race), layouts for tracks and swapping tracks out all together, how many crew member for pits stops (affects price and if you can pit 2 cars at once during race) to just about anything you can think of. Right now the series I'm in has practice and then the race. Grid order is determined by standings in reverse but we are voting later in season on to complete random start order. Hopefully next year we can vote in full qualifying sessions. I was 100% surprised by this little gem. Its very very good and still being updated. Its the other side of the coin to racing games like we all play but if your into the business side or strategy side of racing you will love it.

Javaniceday
15-08-2017, 20:38
I remember old Liverpool Studio F1 games for the playstation had really cool career modes, where if you screwed it up too often, specially in the beginning when you were getting only contracts as trial driver for x manufacturer, then chances for not getting any contract for teams may lead you to a "Game Over" screen, which was something unprecedented in a racing game.

The fact that the difficulty was really high in this career modes made it even better as a whole, as chances for failing and having to start a new career were actually many.

I don't understand why Devs are so worried now a days to punish players when it comes to these little details. Things like a "Game Over" screen only added to the fun, and to put more effort on next attempt.

I absolutely love this idea. So simple. Screw up so bad, do badly in races, get a game over. Try again. Elegant in its simplicity, yet changes the game dramatically for the better without altering what the game is trying to be. At the least you would get demoted to a lower tier.

I do agree trying to be motorsports manager would be a bit too much, too diluted when the focus should be on the driver's career.

CassielLight
15-08-2017, 21:28
Good ideas all round, but there's a point where more is less, and too much is simply too much.

I read something recently about good narratives being, in essence, the best compression of time and space. In other words, there's no need for EVERY detail in a story; you just need to give enough specifics to get the reader to fill in the rest.

The trick with the gaming medium is, which time and space do you compress? What does the user get to play, watch, choose to do? The artistry in longitudinal mode design, is finding that "sweet spot" where there's enough detail to satisfy the most users, but not such an overwhelming amount of detail that new players are scared off.

So, by all means, details matter; but the ticklish part is integrating those details, and not leaving them feeling "tacked on" or even "details for their own sake."

Javaniceday
15-08-2017, 21:51
Good ideas all round, but there's a point where more is less, and too much is simply too much.

I read something recently about good narratives being, in essence, the best compression of time and space. In other words, there's no need for EVERY detail in a story; you just need to give enough specifics to get the reader to fill in the rest.

The trick with the gaming medium is, which time and space do you compress? What does the user get to play, watch, choose to do? The artistry in longitudinal mode design, is finding that "sweet spot" where there's enough detail to satisfy the most users, but not such an overwhelming amount of detail that new players are scared off.

So, by all means, details matter; but the ticklish part is integrating those details, and not leaving them feeling "tacked on" or even "details for their own sake."

Very true. I think it's a lot better when the game lets you experience your own story through its mechanics. That's why that idea of a penalty for doing poorly in races in the form of demotion down the tiers, or even a game over are rather cool. Simple to implement, with big impacts on player experience

cxMilk
16-08-2017, 01:32
Very true. I think it's a lot better when the game lets you experience your own story through its mechanics. That's why that idea of a penalty for doing poorly in races in the form of demotion down the tiers, or even a game over are rather cool. Simple to implement, with big impacts on player experience
Being demoted is one thing, there's a realism there. Game over - if I was playing an arcade racer (and I'm talking Burnout type stuff here), whatever. For a game that's a sim, or even a soft sim like GT or FM, if I saw a game over screen pop up halfway through my career mode, I can say with certainty that game would no longer be among my played games. It'd be shelved and never touched again.

honespc
16-08-2017, 06:55
if I saw a game over screen pop up halfway through my career mode, I can say with certainty that game would no longer be among my played games. It'd be shelved and never touched again.Sad. Very sad

Mahjik
16-08-2017, 12:54
Something similar was brought up during PC1. There was a mod for Sports Car GT back in the day that was similar. It never made it too far as most people didn't want that level of "realism". I doubt we'll ever see something like that in a commercial product; a mod to a sim maybe.

Fanapryde
16-08-2017, 13:13
Sad. Very sad
Why is this sad ?

I read @cxMilk post and I agree.
"Game over" has no place in a sim.

Or did you mean something different ?

rosko
16-08-2017, 21:38
Motorsport Manager is a pretty good game to get the Racing Business fix. If your into race strategy and things like managing budgets, scouting for drivers, engineers, designers, building new buildings and building new parts and designing your car for the next season than its for you. When the race is going on you tell the drivers how to manage tires and fuel and its on the workshop with some great mods. It has 5 series (with dlc) and each series has a set of rules that covers around 25 things from width of tires(affects cost of tires for each race), layouts for tracks and swapping tracks out all together, how many crew member for pits stops (affects price and if you can pit 2 cars at once during race) to just about anything you can think of. Right now the series I'm in has practice and then the race. Grid order is determined by standings in reverse but we are voting later in season on to complete random start order. Hopefully next year we can vote in full qualifying sessions. I was 100% surprised by this little gem. Its very very good and still being updated. Its the other side of the coin to racing games like we all play but if your into the business side or strategy side of racing you will love it.

I guess the idea was not so much about management but to add consequences beyond just restarting the race, the racing itself would become much more exciting imo. If you have to pay to replace your car or fix damage or even a bad crash could end your career how would that affect your driving would you take the same risks? or maybe you can only afford tyres that have to last over several events & how would that affect the race. Having a career that is just a sequence of races in a set order isn't that different from a quick race, career should present something more unique imo.

Mattze
16-08-2017, 23:03
I guess the idea was not so much about management but to add consequences beyond just restarting the race, the racing itself would become much more exciting imo. If you have to pay to replace your car or fix damage or even a bad crash could end your career how would that affect your driving would you take the same risks? or maybe you can only afford tyres that have to last over several events & how would that affect the race. Having a career that is just a sequence of races in a set order isn't that different from a quick race, career should present something more unique imo.

If the AI runs more consistantly, any accident could cost you the championship (and precious points). Maybe, with the new penalty system, you will even disqualify for the next race or something similar. I think that's motivation enough to avoid too much risk. The presence of in-game money aren't really necessary, since it gets worked up over a new dimension playing the career, which has nothing to do with the actual focus of PCars.

honespc
17-08-2017, 06:50
Having a career that is just a sequence of races in a set order isn't that different from a quick race, career should present something more unique imo.Ditto. Not to mention the "have everything from the beginning and choose whatever you want, brah" nowadays philosophy isn't any good regardless some wanna put as the pinnacle of the solution for those who don't have time and blahblah (their problem), when in fact is just the dream of the lazy made manifest, and also doesn't do much good to the overall experience,but pretty much the opposite since the feeling of effort + unlocking is simply non-existent.

Sankyo
17-08-2017, 08:19
Ditto. Not to mention the "have everything from the beginning and choose whatever you want, brah" nowadays philosophy isn't any good regardless some wanna put as the pinnacle of the solution for those who don't have time and blahblah (their problem), when in fact is just the dream of the lazy made manifest, and also doesn't do much good to the overall experience,but pretty much the opposite since the feeling of effort + unlocking is simply non-existent.
I feel quite the opposite :) The content unlocking, the gathering 'XP' points for everything, the 'oh wow here's a gazillion credits for driving through that corner without ending up in the tyre stack' type of rewards-for-nothing in a racing game/simulation to me are symptomatic of a passive wanting-to-be-entertained attitude :) Why isn't the internal motivation of becoming better and trying to win every race good enough anymore? Racing is about concentration, focus, consistency, split-second tactical decisions, improving oneself in all those aspects. Yes, it's a game, but also a computer game can be about those things IMO and that can be just as entertaining. It just requires a different attitude. Nice article showing what I'm talking about (https://ar12gaming.com/articles/preview-project-cars-2).

There certainly are things to be improved on pC1's career mode (and pC2 does that), but racing still is about racing and all its aspects and not about collecting imaginary points or unlocking cars. IMO :) To me, there's nothing worse than wanting to drive/race a particular car or track, and first have to grind through umpteen races to be able to do so. Racing should be the goal, not the means to get content.

Anyway, +1 for a hardcore career mode. As long as the AI are bound by the same rules :)

honespc
17-08-2017, 11:17
That's precisely why the added factor of having some pressure = punishment in case of not doing things well, combined with the particular characteristic of Project Cars being a game about feeling every single lap you are making (pure feeling of racing), could make of Project Cars the true ultimate racing game. I mean being punished even online, further than a bad reputation through the new ranking system.

Imagine the experience we already have in pc1 of feeling each lap with the car (worried of not spinning out and pushing as much as you can, etc); then being rewarded after finishing one of these intense amazing races in a good position( = double satisfaction), or punished if failure, even after the joy of the driving this game naturally offers. This should motivate the player to continue playing way more, and with double enthusiasm.

There's nothing wrong on punishing the player when he's not doing things right. Pretty much the opposite. It would only add to the excitement of going throughout something.

Isn't that the philosophy behind Project Cars?. I understand, but don't share the same feeling.

Forget about XP grinding, etc. Not the point.

Fight-Test
17-08-2017, 17:05
If you spin out in a good competitive race/league then you will feel plenty of punishment. If you finish with a top 5 in a high level league you will feel so much more enjoyment knowing that your practice/strategy/skill payed off in the end and there is no game mode that manufacture that enjoyment or heart break that comes from leaving it on the tarmac with top level racers and friends. I think that is the philosophy behind Project Cars. NO, punishment is not the games philosophy.

Everything you are looking for is there in a league or a group of guys to test your skills against. Many leagues long races with weather and top drivers with multiple stops and that should get the blood pressure up if you are a racer. You need to create your own story in the real sim racing world not have a game artificially create one for you as it will never live up to real competition. The camaraderie alone is a great reason to be in leagues as the fact you will be online every night with buddies getting better and working harder and trying to keep up with the pack. I would spend 15 to 20 hours a week running one tract practicing for the weekend race. Testing tire wear, running in different weather, working on qualification setups. That is the work, that is the fun because when it pays off there is a sense of accomplishment that is unmatched. At least if your a racing guy.

Dresden
20-08-2017, 03:07
I like all the ideas in this thread, but honestly, we have enough trouble getting the game to have AI cars travel across grass at the same speed we can.

Imagine what would happen if they implemented off-track RPG stuff. The whole damn game would explode. :D