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JAG ReDDoG
10-09-2017, 19:24
Hello everyone,been playing Forza off and on thru the years.Decided to get back in the console fun with the XBX coming out soon.First thing im not that guy that says this is better and your game sucks.Having never played PC(really excited about PC2),i have a few questions.(1)Im mostly a campaign lover but online can be fun.-I know theres info everywhere on the game but for the people that have played both PC and Forza,or just PC,Did you enjoy the career mode?Unlocks rewards ect.(2)Is it easy to setup custom online games?Forza seems to not want to do this,unless its private lobby.(3)And this is my loaded question-How is it playing online?1st turn crashers with no kick penalty?Or does PC have built in penalties?Like tires-sand -slow grass for curb jumpers.Hows the online community?

Once again im all in on what ive seen so far,variety is the spice of life.Please dont take this as a Forza bash thread or a PC bash thread.Even if you have never played Forza you input is great appreciated.They both offer alot.I have just a few concerns that wont stop me from enjoying both games.Thanks - keep on keeping on...

RacingAtHome
10-09-2017, 20:39
Don't have Forza. But to prevent T1 noobs, there's a CRL which has Cleanliness to prevent those from being able to join your lobbies. In terms of corner cutting, there's no slow grass, sand, tyres but there are penalties and a reduction of grip off circuit because that's how it's done IRL.

breyzipp
10-09-2017, 21:35
I played FM5, FM6, FH2, FH3 and PC1, mostly focussing on singleplayer career in each game. :)

About campaign:

The Forza campaign system is the classic one that you find in so many games, you start out in a rather simple car, you race to collect credits so you buy more and better cars to drive in better championships.
PC1 and PC2 don't have a credits system. You sign a contract for a team for a car in a racing series and if you win the championship at the end you get a trophy. Play multiple championships to collect all trophies.
Do I like the Forza campaign? Sure, I'm okay with that kind of credits system. Do I like the PCARS campaign? Hell yes!!! It feels a lot more realistic and because of that you also play it for the fun of it where in Forza your main motivation is unlocking things.
Here is an awesome live stream from this week about the singleplayer campaign, I'm absolutely pumped about it, many great improvements compared to PCARS1:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FIsh1sdPa0I

About online features:

I'm not so much an online player myself so I will just direct you to the online features developer stream: ;)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3B5JKMpPiU

breyzipp
10-09-2017, 21:43
Aah yes about penalties in online races.

Forza does it really lame. In FM5 there was this magical 2-component superglue grass (TM) nonsense which absolutely took away from the experience. In FM6 (and FM7) there are tons of fictional barriers over all the tracks. Not only does it look completely rediculous and unrealistic, if you race with sim damage on and you get pushed against such a tire barrier, not fun to damage and handicap your car against a tire that shouldn't have been there in the first place...

PCARS 2 will have a MUCH better system. A race director keeps track of corner cutting and if you cut a corner you have a certain amount of time to give the position back (in case you overtook someone) or slow down and give the time back (in case of time gains). If you fail to do so I believe you get a drive through penalty.

PCARS 2 really has a much more mature online audience than Forza IMO. Forza is a game that attracts the kids, PCARS is a game that more attracts the adults and sim racing enthousiasts. There is no turn 1 carnage the way you see it in about every Forza online game. But that is half the Forza community to blame for, both also the devs IMO as the slighest car contact in FM5/FM6 slingshots your car off the track taking everything in its path with you. PCARS1 has much more realistic car contact physics and I assume that carries over to PCARS2.

hkraft300
11-09-2017, 01:28
A quick look at the PC2 penalty system, as breyzipp describes it:


http://youtu.be/7SBjdJuGTpI

PC1 custom public lobbies are easy enough. Lots of options to set it up just the way you like. Host has a kick option, and other lobby participants have a vote to kick option too.

PC2 from what I've heard takes it all a big step further. The custom MP lobby has up to 4 favourite presets. The UI is better. There's also multi-class racing and custom championships.

JAG ReDDoG
11-09-2017, 18:03
Thanks everyone for your input.Im really excited to play both games and enjoy them for what they bring to the table.From watching these videos(thanks gj)PC2 seems to listen and make improvements and hopefully make a better game.At the end of the day - lets have fun.Sneak in a final ?...Im on the fence for the Deluxe or standard.Seems like a good deal with all the cars.Only bring this up because of past regret.Is it something you can grind to earn or be rewarded later?Thanks

Mahjik
11-09-2017, 18:12
No, you cannot earn/grind for DLC cars and/or tracks.

John Hargreaves
11-09-2017, 18:42
Is it something you can grind to earn or be rewarded later?Thanks

If you think of it as putting in hours of practice in order to feel that rare sense of being completely at one with the car and controlling it with your thoughts (just before you think about what you are having for tea, then crash) then yes, I think there is a great reward there to be had for the time you put in. I just think it's a different mindset to get into, 'grinding' for pure satisfaction rather than ingame credits.
I've done the GT style grinding for credits, and I much prefer the pCARS way.

Konan
11-09-2017, 19:20
Indeed...i used to love GT....owned them all...untill Pcars came out...never looked back since then and now i think i never will either...:cool:

JAG ReDDoG
11-09-2017, 19:26
Refreshing to hear.My happy level just keeps rising.Time to dust off my Microsoft wheel!

Alfisti
11-09-2017, 19:40
I fell out of love for the GT series because of the need to unlock this and graduate that ana 2 hour pointless race to get to the "next stage", honestly just loathed it, so much wasted time.

PCARS is about the racing, get in and drive whatever you like.

GTsimms
11-09-2017, 20:46
Hello everyone,been playing Forza off and on thru the years.Decided to get back in the console fun with the XBX coming out soon.First thing im not that guy that says this is better and your game sucks.Having never played PC(really excited about PC2),i have a few questions.(1)Im mostly a campaign lover but online can be fun.-I know theres info everywhere on the game but for the people that have played both PC and Forza,or just PC,Did you enjoy the career mode?Unlocks rewards ect.(2)Is it easy to setup custom online games?Forza seems to not want to do this,unless its private lobby.(3)And this is my loaded question-How is it playing online?1st turn crashers with no kick penalty?Or does PC have built in penalties?Like tires-sand -slow grass for curb jumpers.Hows the online community?

Once again im all in on what ive seen so far,variety is the spice of life.Please dont take this as a Forza bash thread or a PC bash thread.Even if you have never played Forza you input is great appreciated.They both offer alot.I have just a few concerns that wont stop me from enjoying both games.Thanks - keep on keeping on...

Well, you have to look at this way. Most of the guys saying, "this is better and your game sucks." They have not put time in behind a wheel of a vehicle long enough to know specific things. The call into question some of the professional drivers SMS uses. My job as a Law Enforcement Officer for 11+ years and current age 39, I can respond daily to things well exceeding +100 mph(excluding rain). What I will tell you, every game has it's positives and negatives. One is not just completely superior to the other or the sim to end all sims. When, I made the decision to jump into WMD 2 two years ago after all of the initial negativity of the first title. I did not expect the final ride with WMD2. Since May, I have helped at the WMD2 forums. It has been something, that I will look forward to at WMD 3 and it is something just to be able to help SMS out with the experience. Maurice Boeschen and I were able provide values for a late tweak to something in the ffb that made it into the day one patch. The reply about the adjustment was very positive from the SMS Physics side, since it affected the handling of the vehicles. So, I think out of the box you will enjoy Project CARS 2. It's not perfect, but dang close!

Well FORZA, I have played 1-4, & 6 Apex (not 5 or 6 on consoles). I did not enjoy the grind in FORZA's for the 20,000,000 or + cars, but I did enjoy different aspects of the game and the same for the Gran Turismo Series. I have been looking at FORZA 7, but I'm still unsure atm. But, I have always wanted a GT(which will probably never happen, now it will after posting this probably) or FORZA title on PC, Apex was not enough.


Copied from some of Cluck's posts at gtplanet (hope you don't mind!),

"The biggest problem is, we all have our own subjective opinion of which sim feels 'right'. In reality, none of them have actually got it right but, some of them have got a lot closer than others. Personally, I used to be a big fan of Live For Speed (I still have it on my PC, with the S2 license bought heaven only knows how many years ago) but I simply cannot drive it now. The main reason is the same as I have for a lot of sims in that I know I'm playing a sim.

Let me put it another way.

I was in the last MP test for pCARS2 last night, that our league organised as the official testing league during development and I was driving the 488 GT3 in quali. After 2 or 3 laps of getting the tyres up to temp, something clicked, the car came alive, it felt 100% natural, 100% perfect and for the next 4 or 5 laps I was in an almost trance-like state. I wasn't thinking about driving, I was simply driving. No other sim has ever given me that same feeling, the one where you lose all sense of "I'm driving a game here". I'm sure my words will be discarded by many as "paid shill" (oh, if only I was paid!) but I can honestly say that it was a joy, a pleasure, a delight, a wonderful thing, to be driving that car right then. The only reason I stopped was because I ran out of fuel and, by the time I had got the tyres up to temp again, the quali session was over.

When you have a game/sim that lets you completely forget you're driving a game, you know you're playing something very special indeed. And last night was not an isolated incident, the same thing happen a couple of weeks ago when a 'quick play with the McLaren 650 GT3' turned into 2 hours of "lost in the moment" joy of racing.

Is pCARS2 perfect? No. No sim ever will be. But at it's best, there is nothing to touch it, nothing to recreate that "I am at one with this car right now" feeling.


So, for the record, I stand by everything I have posted with regards car behaviour. I rarely stick my head about the parapet, to discuss car behaviour (let alone physics or FFB) because I cannot express it in language that the sim-experts want to read. Even less so can I express my feelings based on first-hand experience of the cars in the game (for which I have none). I can only tell you how it feels to me, as a driver. A driver that regularly tracked a 300 - 350 hp, RWD, car around most of the well known circuits in the UK. A driver that exceeded the UK speed limits by far more than the UK speed limit in the first place on an almost daily basis (not that I am proud of it, I simply had the car and the roads around me to make that possible). In short, I know what it feels like to drive fast (very fast) both on the road and on the track. Therefore, I can 'only' express my feelings of a sim from that experience, not from the experience of A N Other sim. To me, right now, I get a massive kick out of driving in pCARS2. Well, I did. Like the rest of us at WMD2, I've got to wait until release day now before I can play it again."

breyzipp
11-09-2017, 21:54
Refreshing to hear.My happy level just keeps rising.Time to dust off my Microsoft wheel!

GT is GT, Forza is Forza, when you play both the cars all feel pretty much generic if you ask me. Sure a hot hatch is different from a classic muscle car and a supercar, but within a certain class it's all pretty much generic with some minor differences.

I can't speak for PCARS 2 yet but only PCARS 1 - Over there the game was not too kind on the controller. But, after following a YouTube guide for generic XBox controller settings and a Polish website for individual car settings the controller was much improved. Sure the older cars like that vintage NASCAR still felt like crap, classic race cars were meh and the supercars were a bit too difficult to keep under control. But some cars, especially the hot hatches, the sports cars and the modern racecars felt great! At some point I was driving the Toyota GT-86 around Oulton Park, the car felt absolutely awesome in the corners, unlike any car I felt in GT or Forza before. So much more feedback of what the car was doing and it felt great just pushing it to the limits in a corner, again that was with just with the controller on my XBox, arguably the worse input device on the worse platform. :) Another great moment was the Rocket Bunny Toyota GT86 at the Mullenbachschleife of the Nurburgring, or the Audi A1 and Renault Megane hot hatches at the Ruapuna circuit, the RUF GT3 at so many circuits: All great feelings! In PCARS 1 some of the cars really have a soul, you can really appreciate and enjoy individual cars, connect with them. In Forza you just drive a generic handling model covered in the shell of your favorite car.

Now for PCARS 2 about 4 key elements have been improved that make me believe the game will be even much better on the XBox with a controller:
1) Much better controller input and filtering.
2) Much better tire models where if a car starts to snap over the limit in corners, you can much easier regain control.
3) Ice racing and rallycross are in. If your car/tire handling model sucks, you just don't put these modes in the game.
4) There are plenty of controller input videos out there (even on the slippery surfaces) and I can already see some of the "problems" of PCARS 1 are fixed in PCARS 2.

In the end it all boils down to what your interest is.

For me Forza is a fun arcade game, it's a rat race from place 24 to the podium in 3-4 laps. It has all the nifty tools for the modern YouTube generation like a credits system, mod packs (AKA loot crates now), driver suites, best played from chase cam view, etc etc. Sadly it also misses a LOT of features from the more serious sim racers like tire strategies, practice and qualifying laps, proper car classes (in Forza LMP1, LMP2, DP, LMP900 and even Group C are all racing in the same "endurance prototypes" class which is very unrealistic, but it's simple to understand for the kids - one of the main target audiences for the game) etc.

Project CARS on the other hand feels much more real. That already starts from the driving, you just want to drive it in cockpit or helmet camera view, the speeds and handling feel more realistic and everything around the racing like the singleplayer career mode, the race engineer, formation laps, manual pitstops, practice, qualifying, etc all feel much more realistic.

In the end they are 2 completely different games though. IMO FM is MUCH more like FH than it is like Project CARS but just the fact that it's a game on circuits instead of open world make people compare it easier to PCARS2 and G:Sport.

Bottom line:
* If you want a fun arcade circuit game you mainly play with a controller from chasecam view and you enjoy a credits based system then FM is your thing.
* If you want a serious sim circuit racer you mainly play from cockpit view (either with wheel and controller, both are fine) and you enjoy a more realistic career experience without a credits system to keep your attention away from the real game then PCARS is your thing.

hkraft300
12-09-2017, 00:53
Forza is more: burn through the traffic, grind some credits... it also appeals to a much wider automotive enthusiast audience. The livery edit community, the modders/"tuners", the car collectors, the trophy hunters...

Project cars is almost entirely motorsport focused. It's all about the nerdy motor racing details, from pit stops to tyre compounds, race car tuning...

You'd get confused by the titles.

And... oh man... do the cars feel different and unique in PC1!

ironik
12-09-2017, 09:19
Is it something you can grind to earn or be rewarded later?Thanks

There is definitely something to grind for (except pleasure ^^) : there is a new racing license system for online racing.
So you could start to grind for the "S" license and then try to improve your rating. ;)

Cheesenium
12-09-2017, 11:04
I was in the last MP test for pCARS2 last night, that our league organised as the official testing league during development and I was driving the 488 GT3 in quali. After 2 or 3 laps of getting the tyres up to temp, something clicked, the car came alive, it felt 100% natural, 100% perfect and for the next 4 or 5 laps I was in an almost trance-like state. I wasn't thinking about driving, I was simply driving. No other sim has ever given me that same feeling, the one where you lose all sense of "I'm driving a game here". I'm sure my words will be discarded by many as "paid shill" (oh, if only I was paid!) but I can honestly say that it was a joy, a pleasure, a delight, a wonderful thing, to be driving that car right then. The only reason I stopped was because I ran out of fuel and, by the time I had got the tyres up to temp again, the quali session was over.

I think one thing that made me really enjoy about pcars 2 is the driving of the game. You do not really fight with the car's handling (unless you pushed it over the limit or some of those more quirky cars like Group 5), you tend to work with the car to go where you want it to go where it felt like an extension of yourself into the virtual world. Also, I love that feeling of trying to push the car as close to the limit without it snapping off suddenly where you constantly trying to brake as late as you can or accelerate as fast as you can. Then, you felt like you are in the car driving it in a very natural and intuitive way that you felt when you are driving your road car, in full control of the vehicle. Except you are speeding down the straights in probably a very expensive car in the virtual world.

GMAK2442
15-09-2017, 03:40
Forza, for now, is a console game and a console game is control with the controller. Compare to Project Car that can be control with the mouse and keyboard, the advantage to manage everything is much better.

JAG ReDDoG
15-09-2017, 19:49
Lots of great facts and opinions.Im starting to look at things different, thou i havent played pc since i only have a 360.I enjoy not grinding just to earn this car or that car.Im really excited about the online ratings system.I wont be at the top of the rankings but i wont be that 1st turn rammer with a bad rating that gets you kicked from a lobby.Its going to be pretty clear about your skills and overall ratings.I do find i odd that Pc and Pc2 both have custom online lobby systems that everyone can join,but f7 still cant or wont get this fixed.But thats on them.Hope this turns out like i think it will.Im about sick of watching youtube videos.LOL.But it will do for now.Thanks everyone for your feedback and thoughts.

CassielLight
15-09-2017, 23:25
From a reformed Gran Turismo junkie:

The career mode in PC1 is good, if you're self-directed. It doesn't have the cute outside-the-lines cut scenes like, say, Road to the Show in MLB The Show 17. (Come to the dark side...we have cookies. :friendly_wink:)

What it DOES have, is a racing experience that you can set up as you see fit, and doesn't seem designed to frustrate. No license tests, you can make the game as easy or hard as you like, and there's a bunch of different stuff to do. (And even more in the sequel! :eek-new:)

The deliverable in entertainment, generally speaking, is emotion. You want the reader/viewer/user to feel something: that FEELING, is what makes or breaks the experience. So, in a video game, you can have photo realistic graphics, an epic soundtrack, and the most pick up and play controls in the industry, but if the experience is an emotionless grind (EA Canada, I'm looking at you), the game will still be a dud.

What SMS did with the career mode on PC1, was let you feel what you want. You want a realistic pressure cooker of a career? Go for it. You want the thrill of victory on every race you run? You can do that, too. Love getting under the virtual hood, and get a thrill when you find that perfect setup? Have at it. Just want to get behind the wheel and race? Well, here are the virtual keys.

There are, admittedly, a couple of events and vehicles that can be annoying for some. Personally, I don't much care for the Renault Clio or Caterham Seven. But you don't HAVE to finish the invitationals to get HOF, just unlock them. And to get all eight sponsors, you only need to finish 16 of 20 eligible events.

Contrast this with Gran Turismo: unforgiving learning curve, mandatory license tests that are the very opposite of fun, and a progression system that requires you to do more grinding than a Starbucks barista. No thanks. I've found my new racing home, and the sequel is out next week. :cool:

GTsimms
16-09-2017, 00:15
From a reformed Gran Turismo junkie:

The career mode in PC1 is good, if you're self-directed. It doesn't have the cute outside-the-lines cut scenes like, say, Road to the Show in MLB The Show 17. (Come to the dark side...we have cookies. :friendly_wink:)

What it DOES have, is a racing experience that you can set up as you see fit, and doesn't seem designed to frustrate. No license tests, you can make the game as easy or hard as you like, and there's a bunch of different stuff to do. (And even more in the sequel! :eek-new:)

The deliverable in entertainment, generally speaking, is emotion. You want the reader/viewer/user to feel something: that FEELING, is what makes or breaks the experience. So, in a video game, you can have photo realistic graphics, an epic soundtrack, and the most pick up and play controls in the industry, but if the experience is an emotionless grind (EA Canada, I'm looking at you), the game will still be a dud.

What SMS did with the career mode on PC1, was let you feel what you want. You want a realistic pressure cooker of a career? Go for it. You want the thrill of victory on every race you run? You can do that, too. Love getting under the virtual hood, and get a thrill when you find that perfect setup? Have at it. Just want to get behind the wheel and race? Well, here are the virtual keys.

There are, admittedly, a couple of events and vehicles that can be annoying for some. Personally, I don't much care for the Renault Clio or Caterham Seven. But you don't HAVE to finish the invitationals to get HOF, just unlock them. And to get all eight sponsors, you only need to finish 16 of 20 eligible events.

Contrast this with Gran Turismo: unforgiving learning curve, mandatory license tests that are the very opposite of fun, and a progression system that requires you to do more grinding than a Starbucks barista. No thanks. I've found my new racing home, and the sequel is out next week. :cool:

Might be the wrong thread, but as my racing game past has been extensive. GT/FORZA/Etc., you are all welcome here! I have played 1-6 and still have a working PS1 and PS2!

hkraft300
16-09-2017, 00:34
Project cars: Rumble in the Jungle.

Forza: got touched by his uncle.