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View Full Version : Way to know target tire and break temp/pressure ranges?



Javaniceday
15-09-2017, 18:18
So, every car is gonna have different temp and pressure ranges for peak performance. Formula cars have a much higher temperature target than, say GT3 or road cars.

So, other than the in-game icon showing you the temp in form of a color, will each car come with some sort of.... info graphic or explanation when you select it telling you, "these are your target tire temps and pressures"? Same with breaks. Different cars will have different targets.

Topsie
15-09-2017, 19:11
This would be very handy to know

Purg
15-09-2017, 19:34
Probably going to be trial and error until someone tests them and posts their findings..

z3r0cool77
15-09-2017, 19:45
I dont know how accurate it is, but I've been checking the temps at a race start when tires and brakes always start in the green. Then I plug those numbers into my dashboard app.

Javaniceday
15-09-2017, 19:53
Probably going to be trial and error until someone tests them and posts their findings..

can't they just... include these numbers as part of the car description?

transfix
15-09-2017, 20:17
A good tool aside from the in-game telemetry is the use of UDP Apps such as PCars Dash and the likes of which will give you plenty detailed info.

fuschs
15-09-2017, 20:30
In short, no. You must test to find out for each car, but for GT3 cars it's often 2.0-2.10 bar
With the new tyre model pressures will be key. Pracrice and note down grip and wear in given conditions.

ramm21
15-09-2017, 20:59
can't they just... include these numbers as part of the car description?

They can't tell you target temps/pressures because they don't know what your target is. Are you racing during the day or night? Rain? All of those will have different temps/pressures for peak performance.

What is peak performance though? Are you qualifying? Racing? 10 lap race? 1 hour endurance? All of those matter when choosing what tire temps/pressures to run..

Javaniceday
15-09-2017, 22:12
They can't tell you target temps/pressures because they don't know what your target is. Are you racing during the day or night? Rain? All of those will have different temps/pressures for peak performance.

What is peak performance though? Are you qualifying? Racing? 10 lap race? 1 hour endurance? All of those matter when choosing what tire temps/pressures to run..

maybe I know less about racing than I think I do.

Don't tires have a temperature range where they'll be at peak performance, generally speaking? Same with tire pressures and break temperatures. And you work within those ranges depending on conditions/goals (quali vs endurance)?

hkraft300
16-09-2017, 14:28
maybe I know less about racing than I think I do.

Don't tires have a temperature range where they'll be at peak performance, generally speaking? Same with tire pressures and break temperatures. And you work within those ranges depending on conditions/goals (quali vs endurance)?

Correct, but question still stands: what is peak performance? Maybe you achieve peak lap times (for qualifying) at 105℃ but because of the conditions and compound you're using, the tire dies quick, so it's no good at that temp during an endurance race where you have to conserve but still be quick.

Just going to put it out there: 95-110℃ is what I've found best for GT(1/3/4/E) and LMP1/2/3/900 cars. FA worked better 100-120℃. Steel brakes were good at Max 650℃ for modern cars and carbon brakes were effective above 550℃.

The high end of the temperature is a little less forgiving to abuse/mistakes/over-driving.

I'd like to see how this translates in PC2. Also there are so many different cars and tyre compounds! Part of the fun will be discovering the performance range of the tires :)

Trippul G
16-09-2017, 14:55
This may be a dumb question, but was there an easy way (in PCARS1 or 2) to tell whether a particular car used steel or carbon brakes? Do any cars in game use ceramic brakes? If so, how would they react compared to steel or carbon?

honespc
16-09-2017, 15:08
Tyres is one fo the topics devs want to talk the less about. They just state behaviour has been improved in what it comes to controlling the car when you lose control, and little more.

We still don't have a clue about the following:

a) Will different slick compounds have some use this time?, in pc1 only soft slicks had. Medium and hard were useless.
b) Will softs finally wear out as quickly as they should, even under non sunny conditions?. Nothing has been said on this too.
c) What about intermediate tyres for dry/soft rain. Will they be usable this time?. This is now very important because of livetrack 3.0
d) With road tyres, when you see they have been worn completely, you still got plenty of grip in pc1. Was this fixed?, we dont know yet. Similar with slicks.
d) Tyres don't seem to overheat in pc2, just like they don't in pc1 after the last patch.
e) Tyre hot pressure didn't matter just one bit in pc1, only temps and very little too. There seemed to be one optimal cold pressure range for each tyre were neither hot pressure nor excessive temps deserved much concern from the player, and that was about all to be worried about tyre pressure and temps. Has this been improved?, not word from devs as of yet too.

hkraft300
16-09-2017, 15:57
This may be a dumb question, but was there an easy way (in PCARS1 or 2) to tell whether a particular car used steel or carbon brakes? Do any cars in game use ceramic brakes?

There's a list on the forum somewhere.
The way for me to tell is a) Google, b) if the brake temp was >650℃ steel brakes lost their bite but carbon brakes, when cold (<500℃) don't have any bite.

Edit: carbon brakes are only on GT1+X, LMP1+2+900, FA, FR3.5 and I think Renault RS01. Also some exotic road cars like the McLaren P1 and Huayra.



We still don't have a clue about the following:

b) Will softs finally wear out as quickly as they should, even under non sunny conditions?


How fast should they wear out? My wife will get much more further from a set of soft slicks than I would.
SMS collaborated heavily with Pirelli for the tire model this time.



d) Tyres don't seem to overheat in pc2, just like they don't in pc1 after the last patch.

That's your assumption based solely on: "the tires don't turn red when drifting".
Until you play yourself and over-drive a particular compound for long enough to notice overheating characteristics, how would you know?



e) Tyre hot pressure didn't matter just one bit in pc1, only temps and very little too.

That's also completely wrong, for PC1. Lap times jumped by 2-5 seconds/lap with the tires being in ~85℃ or 100℃. The pressures correlated with the temperature.
If the tires were under-pressured, they rise in temperature, which increased its pressure, to reach a balanced state.
If the tires were over-pressured, they cool in temperature, which reduces pressure, until equilibrium.

A little thermodynamics goes a long way.

honespc
16-09-2017, 17:16
How fast should they wear out? Fast. Very fast. Softs are meant for qualifying basically. This is another well known issue to pc1, so needless to continue the debate but just to make the question that whether it was fixed or not, giving the rest of the compounds a meaning to be there and to be used.




That's your assumption based solely on: "the tires don't turn red when drifting"Don't put words on my mouth I have not spoken, please. But now that you said it, yeah, even at drifting they don't go the red. Every single type of compund should burn when drifting persistently, and once again we don't have this in pc1 since patch 1.6. What's left to know here is whether or not we are also returning to this, but sadly based on videos seen, we are definitely going there again, which is bad news.

How would I know until I over-drive them?, because I do already in pc1 and nothing happens, and seems to be the case in pc2 by the looks of it based on the many videos already watched.




That's also completely wrong, for PC1. Lap times jumped by 2-5 seconds/lap with the tires being in ~85℃ or 100℃ The pressures correlated with the temperature.Yeah, which is wrong. They should correlated to the internal hot pressure which is capital for a perfect tyre behaviour in most conditions, and this doesn't happen in pc1. Also, very low tyre pressures should lead to lower hot pressures (non-optimal inner pressure in other words), and higher cold to higher hot. In project cars 1 is represented only the external carcass temps when it comes to temps, and still we see the tyres in the green zone even if very hot. Another well known issue introduced in the last patch, and that it all points out we continue the same route in pc2 tyre temps.

Furthermore, when you go very low on pressures making the carcass go really hot (and it will still stay in the green zone even at 110 and even if they are street tyres, which is completely crazy), there seems to be no correlation between the stupid low pressure you have gone with and the wear. Another issue introduced in the last patch, for never again be talked about.

Also, now that you mention it, tyres here don't go even brown colour when reaching the 105-110 mark, which is completey wrong and introduced introduced in pc1 patch 1.10 for some reason, when the tyre temps in patch were already perfect, and tyres entered the red range by just about those marks. In pc2 it seems we return to this instead of to the goodness of patch 1.6, which is completely wrong too.

And to make things even more crazy in pc1, put street tyres in the 110 mark in pc1 and witness how they stay in the green without any grip loss copnsequence (they should be burning to the core under these conditions in real life), which is laughable to say the least. Was this fixed in pc2?, no word on this too as of yet. And what about street tyres completely worn and not losing grip?, another issue that never got fixed. Do we expect a return to this in pc2?, we don't know, but...



If the tires were under-pressured, they rise in temperature, which increased its pressure, to reach a balanced state.
If the tires were over-pressured, they cool in temperature, which reduces pressure, until equilibrium.Which is also totally wrong. IRL, when you lower the pressure a lot, what It gets hot is the carcass due to friction, but the core ends up running under a a non-optimal low cold pressure (hot pressure that ends up being very low) making you lose grip. Overdone it by going the opposite way and the carcass will stay "cold", but the hot inner pressure will go too high, also making the tyre not behaving properly and making you lose grip, just as if you go too low with cold pressure. That, is what actually happens in real life.


A little thermodynamics goes a long way.Refer to the last paragraph to understand a little bit more about how thermodynamics goes their long way regarding tyres.

Mahjik
16-09-2017, 17:19
Fast. Very fast. Softs are meant for qualifying basically. This is another well known issue to pc1, so needless to continue the debate but just to make the question that whether it was fixed or not, giving the rest of the compounds a meaning to be there and to be used.

That is not true in all disciplines. For example, in GT, the tire compounds are based on temperature. They use a hard compound for warmer temperatures and a softer compound for cooler temps. If the temperature is going to be 100 degrees F, they will qualify on their hard compound.

hkraft300
16-09-2017, 17:39
Fast. Very fast. Softs are meant for qualifying basically.

GT and LMP cars do double stints on soft compound tires. How's that for very fast?



But now that you said it, yeah, even at drifting they don't go the red. Every single type of compund should burn when drifting persistently, and once again we don't have this in pc1 since patch 1.6. What's left to know here is whether or not we are also returning to this, but sadly based on videos seen, we are definitely going there again, which is bad news.

What game are you playing? I just had a couple of low-speed (Mercedes arena) spins in the Bentley GT3 at Nur GP and the temps shot up by 8-10℃ each time. Core temps. The surface temps must have been much higher but that's never displayed.


Also, very low tyre pressures should lead to lower hot pressures ...

Depends on how much the temperature increases, which depends on how much load you are putting on the tires. Because very basic thermodynamics.


... it will still stay in the green zone even at 110 and even if they are street tyres, which is completely crazy....

Also, now that you mention it, tyres here don't go even brown colour when reaching the 105-110 mark, which is completey wrong ... which is completely wrong too.

And to make things even more crazy in pc1, put street tyres in the 110 mark in pc1 and witness how they stay in the green without any grip loss copnsequence (they should be burning to the core under these conditions in real life)...

:hopelessness:

honespc
16-09-2017, 18:35
^:hopelessness:

edit:

That is not true in all disciplines. For example, in GT, the tire compounds are based on temperature. They use a hard compound for warmer temperatures and a softer compound for cooler temps. If the temperature is going to be 100 degrees F, they will qualify on their hard compound.and you see what happens in pc1 when 100 or little higher on softs. Nothing.

Same for streets, which is way worse

Mahjik
16-09-2017, 18:40
and you see what happens in pc1 when 100 or little higher on softs. Nothing.


FWIW, I'm not commenting on PC1. Just commenting about how the pros use tires today. Softer is not always the fastest tire.

TexasTyme214
16-09-2017, 20:26
Tyres is one fo the topics devs want to talk the less about. They just state behaviour has been improved in what it comes to controlling the car when you lose control, and little more.

We still don't have a clue about the following:

a) Will different slick compounds have some use this time?, in pc1 only soft slicks had. Medium and hard were useless.

On GTPlanet, one of the devs stated that someone was hired specifically to balance all the try compounds and they are a stickler for multi-stinting strategies.


b) Will softs finally wear out as quickly as they should, even under non sunny conditions?. Nothing has been said on this too.

With Pirelli having real data applied to the tires, we should get realistic wear rates. For endurance tires specifically, a full fuel stint is not out of the question.


c) What about intermediate tyres for dry/soft rain. Will they be usable this time?. This is now very important because of livetrack 3.0

Again, real Pirelli data will help with this. Ian Bell on GTP has talked about how this is greatly improved.

d) With road tyres, when you see they have been worn completely, you still got plenty of grip in pc1. Was this fixed?, we dont know yet. Similar with slicks.

Tire wear meter only tracks the tread on the tire, which makes of 50% of the total wear on the tire. Grip will run out usually when the tread is gone, but you can still drive on the carcass if you'd like. In other words, there's nothing here to fix.

d) Tyres don't seem to overheat in pc2, just like they don't in pc1 after the last patch.

Watch the gameplay with the Clio Cup at Oulton Park (couple months old) or the Formula A at Spa that starts in the dry but goes into a storm. The latter has the driver starting on non-dry tires and they overheat.


e) Tyre hot pressure didn't matter just one bit in pc1, only temps and very little too. There seemed to be one optimal cold pressure range for each tyre were neither hot pressure nor excessive temps deserved much concern from the player, and that was about all to be worried about tyre pressure and temps. Has this been improved?, not word from devs as of yet too.

I think real Pirelli data will take care of this too.

Answers in quotes.