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mattikake
22-09-2017, 01:27
Just been trying out the game for the first time in the last 2 hours since the download completed.

I'm really struggling with the force feedback on the G29. In PCARS 1 I had it set (will post up the settings later - off to bed now!) where I could feel the grip levels really well, particularly for when the traction goes on RWD cars. I've tried all the settings I can for PCARS 2 but I just can't get anywhere near the same feel. In PCARS 1 I could instantly feel when the traction is lost and correct. There is a distinct snap or lightness (depending on this issue) and I could correct it immediately. Very much like a real world go-kart.

But with PCARS 2 it's so numb by comparison. The steering is really light no matter what I try - currently I have it set to RAW having tried Informative and Immersive and almost everything set at 100 except FX which is at 50, which seems to be the most extreme setting for where I'm getting a slight feel yet nowhere near what I've been used to. I have no feel for the traction whatsoever. There's no snap, tug or sudden lightness from the wheel with loss of traction. I also have no real feel for running out of lateral grip either (understeer). Nor any feel for the fronts locking under braking. Everything seems like guesswork.

I'm spinning coming out, sliding wide going in, locking wheels. I'm all over the place and the only clues I'm really getting are visual not FFB.

I just reloaded PCARS 1 to see if I could work out what it is, but no luck so far. I've just been playing the IndyCar at Road America where I was lapping at a low 1:44s but on PCARS 2 I can't even complete a lap and potential says I'm heading for 1:50s!

At the moment I feel gutted. :(

Has anyone got any suggestions for the FFB settings to use? The Immersive and Informative options are too light. They feel like... I dunno... a Fiat Punto with city steering on.

Pink_650S
22-09-2017, 01:36
Hey!

I cant really help you, but l can confirm that my G29 feels off as well. I only bought it recently and l'm new to using a wheel, but something doesnt feel right.

The only car l felt comfortable pushing in was the 650S GT3.

Aldo Zampatti
22-09-2017, 01:46
Did not tried on PS4, but on PC my G2x runs immersive at 100/75/50 but is a matter of personal preference.

Pink_650S
22-09-2017, 01:54
Did not tried on PS4, but on PC my G2x runs immersive at 100/75/50 but is a matter of personal preference.

I will try these settings tomorrow, thanks :)

sirio994
22-09-2017, 02:46
Same problem for me. Light wheel even on extreme settings. Unresponsive (it seems like it has a huge dead zone even if i set at zero, central 90 degrees or so are almost no feedback). Brake pedals and clutch don't feel good too in default settings.

It sound absurd but this thread makes me happy. I though it was me, everyone is enjoying the game and loving the new force feedback (while i would take the old back).

Something is off...

Aizcold
22-09-2017, 08:55
I don't know if any of you guys adjusted the damper saturation setting, but that added some more weight to the wheel for me (I set it to 25 instead of the default 0). I also set speed sensitivity to 45. Combined with immersive FFB, 100 gain, and volume and tone set to about 70 that feels pretty good to me now. Probably still a bit light for some, but enjoyable for me.

I'm guessing the damper saturation could be used to further increase weight, at least that's what it says in the menus. I'm not sure if there are potential drawbacks to doing so, so I've been cautious about increasing it too much from the default value of 0.

mattikake
22-09-2017, 08:58
The feeling of wasting my cash and having my bubble burst doesn't make me happy! I can't see me ever getting used to this. Pcars 1 took time but at least the ffb was there. Atm thinking about how bad my ffb issue is makes me hope loads of people are still going to be playing pcars 1...

Why couldn't they just include the old ffb method as an option? Backwards compatibility, like when new versions of office applications come out. That's all they had to do - take the original version the add to it, not start from scratch. The ffb mechanics were never a complaint in PCARS 1, only the interface to set it up was.

I'll be having another go later but I'm not looking forward to it...

Aizcold
22-09-2017, 09:09
This video (also posted elsewhere on the forums here) helped me a lot with finding the right settings, maybe it'll be useful for you too:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gW5ESYLlNnk&t=634s

sirio994
22-09-2017, 11:01
The feeling of wasting my cash and having my bubble burst doesn't make me happy! I can't see me ever getting used to this. Pcars 1 took time but at least the ffb was there. Atm thinking about how bad my ffb issue is makes me hope loads of people are still going to be playing pcars 1...

Why couldn't they just include the old ffb method as an option? Backwards compatibility, like when new versions of office applications come out. That's all they had to do - take the original version the add to it, not start from scratch. The ffb mechanics were never a complaint in PCARS 1, only the interface to set it up was.

I'll be having another go later but I'm not looking forward to it...

No way this is the true force feedback. 100% sure it is a bug or a problem they are going to fix. But this isn't the true force feedback of tbe G29 on PS4.

The problem isn't the wheel weight. The wheel is not only light. It's unresponsive. Every single aspect of.the feedback feels off.

I refuse to even think this is the real feedback.

mattikake
22-09-2017, 12:54
I don't know if any of you guys adjusted the damper saturation setting, but that added some more weight to the wheel for me (I set it to 25 instead of the default 0). I also set speed sensitivity to 45. Combined with immersive FFB, 100 gain, and volume and tone set to about 70 that feels pretty good to me now. Probably still a bit light for some, but enjoyable for me.

I'm guessing the damper saturation could be used to further increase weight, at least that's what it says in the menus. I'm not sure if there are potential drawbacks to doing so, so I've been cautious about increasing it too much from the default value of 0.

According to the help, increasing the Tone will put more bias on tyre slip than road surfaces. I have set this many levels, even 100, but there is NO feedback for tyre slip under braking traction or acceleration traction. None. There no change in the behaviour of the wheel.

Do you actually get any feel for traction with it set to 70 or anything? This makes me believe this is simply not working.

I've managed to get the steering wheel to feel heavier, but speed (downforce) has no effect on this, it's permanently heavy. The more pressure going through the tyres should make the steering get heavier, but it just stays the same at high speed as it is as 1mph. I did this by increasing the damper settings on the controller setup to between 85 and 100 but you have to quit out of a session and restart for the changes to have any affect. That's a bit of a ballache.

sirio994
22-09-2017, 13:14
According to the help, increasing the Tone will put more bias on tyre slip than road surfaces. I have set this many levels, even 100, but there is NO feedback for tyre slip under braking traction or acceleration traction. None. There no change in the behaviour of the wheel.

Do you actually get any feel for traction with it set to 70 or anything? This makes me believe this is simply not working.

I've managed to get the steering wheel to feel heavier, but speed (downforce) has no effect on this, it's permanently heavy. The more pressure going through the tyres should make the steering get heavier, but it just stays the same at high speed as it is as 1mph. I did this by increasing the damper settings on the controller setup to between 85 and 100 but you have to quit out of a session and restart for the changes to have any affect. That's a bit of a ballache.

This! It's simply not working. You can clearly feel it. As i wrote it's hard to explain but it's not weight related. The weight is not the only problem. Feels like the feedback is light and goes on/off (llike it had a feedback deadzone) and it's heavily filtered.

It's really really hard to explain the feeling.

Settings can only make the wheel artificially less light but it's not the solution.

Assetto Corsa has the most light force feddback of the PS4/G29 combination (i've played every racing game or so: F12015-16-17, Dirt Rally/4, PC1, AC. The wheel might be a little light for some (me included) but the feedback is litterally perfect.

It's simply not working (there's nothing settings can do), we have to hope that the understanding and fixing process won't be long...

mattikake
22-09-2017, 13:53
It's definitely not working. The Tone option does nothing. I've tried it 0 to 100 now and it has no effect, from Informative to Raw.

Bumping over curbs, grass, dirt gets feedback so that works. I can set the steering heavy or light, so that works.

I notice the ffb on the motec HUD seems think feedback is happening. Interestingly I have a permanent full red bar on the right-most part of the graph yet all the other bars are registering small blue effects but they never go really high.

I do with the the opinion of more G29 users. There must be loads out there struggling with this.

sirio994
22-09-2017, 14:09
It's definitely not working. The Tone option does nothing. I've tried it 0 to 100 now and it has no effect, from Informative to Raw.

Bumping over curbs, grass, dirt gets feedback so that works. I can set the steering heavy or light, so that works.

I notice the ffb on the motec HUD seems think feedback is happening. Interestingly I have a permanent full red bar on the right-most part of the graph yet all the other bars are registering small blue effects but they never go really high.

I do with the the opinion of more G29 users. There must be loads out there struggling with this.

Loads...essentially anyone who has experience with racing, racing games and sims.

It's easy to understand it's not only weight related and it's not a new "handling model".

I'm 100% sure this is something new. I can't even think about the possibility that testers didn't see it.

The game went through long testing (beta, builds & co) and it took a couple of minutes to us to see it.

Must be a recent problem...

hkraft300
22-09-2017, 14:22
I wasn't running any SoP on PC1.
PC2 Raw, gain 100 volume 45 (rest default 50) and it feels same as PC1. Just the ffb I mean.

However, the tire model is different. The tires feel different. The grip->slip transition is less snappy - maybe that's why it feels less pronounced? Even cold tires you can skate about, catch it, drive reckless fast.

The front end grips better. The rear slides progressively and I can catch it much easier. I did increase caster angle by a few degrees.

I only had 1 hour to try the 720s, F50GT, Cayman GT4 and Ligier Judd. The Cayman did actually feel numb and slow.

I must try different cars. I have a feeling the Ffb will be very distinctive and unique to the different types of cars and tires.

Edit:



I notice the ffb on the motec HUD seems think feedback is happening. Interestingly I have a permanent full red bar on the right-most part of the graph yet all the other bars are registering small blue effects but they never go really high.
.

This doesn't sound right. The right bar = clipping. If that's constantly on means the wheel is overloaded, according to the YouTube pc2 ffb video.
With my settings the right bar barely moves.

mattikake
22-09-2017, 14:22
Well I've closed the game now. There's no point even trying to play it like this. :(

mattikake
22-09-2017, 14:33
btw my FFB settings on PC1 that work fine are:-

Master: 30
Fx: 80
Fy: 30
Fx: 70
Smoothing all set to 10

Sop
Scale: 30
Lateral: 80
Differential: 30
Damping: 70

All I'd want is a PC2 FFB setup that feels the same as this. The devs must know the PC1 to PC2 translation.

hkraft300
22-09-2017, 14:41
I think you want informative (off the top of my head. I won't get game time for another >12hours) but the volume will be <50 or the wheel will clip.

Raw has no SoP but at 50 volume the Ligier and F50 were clipping.

The tires do feel more... gooey. The game feels similar to pc1 but a little different. Better since installing the patch too.

sirio994
22-09-2017, 15:04
Honestly in these conditions it's really hard to even tell the difference between informative, immersive, and raw.

hkraft300
22-09-2017, 15:09
Honestly in these conditions it's really hard to even tell the difference between informative, immersive, and raw.

Have you downloaded and installed the patch?

Also check your telemetry screen for the ffb bar graph. The right bar should barely/rarely jump.

Also the DS4 may be messing with the wheel too, like PC1. So just to be sure, remember to turn off the ds4 controller and start the game with the wheel please.

If you're clipping the wheel goes limp.

zr1chris
22-09-2017, 15:26
I'm not using the G29 but my wheel is emulating one.

I'm using a Fanatec PWTS with the Drivehub. In Fanalogic mode it emulates a G29. That's also what the game recognizes it to be.

It was a bit light here as well to start. It was mainly just around the center and when I wasn't pushing the car much. I have switched to raw and bumped the volume up to 60 and I feel like it's perfect as can be. Zero complaints from me. Plenty of FFB and I still have plenty of room for more on the volume slider.

Hope you guys get your issues resolved.

mattikake
22-09-2017, 15:29
Patch? What patch and how do you get it on the ps4?

Martinbooker
22-09-2017, 16:44
Also the DS4 may be messing with the wheel too, like PC1. So just to be sure, remember to turn off the ds4 controller and start the game with the wheel please.



Now *thats* interesting.... Fellow G29 owner here having similar issues. First time on the game last night and had DS4 on and connected same time as the wheel.... I really hope this is the fix I've been looking for

DJBLITZKRIEG
22-09-2017, 16:57
T500rs user here on PS4. Same thing for me. Completely heavy, over sensitive, unresponsive. I am afraid I will have to shelf the game until a fix has been made.

sirio994
22-09-2017, 17:08
Now *thats* interesting.... Fellow G29 owner here having similar issues. First time on the game last night and had DS4 on and connected same time as the wheel.... I really hope this is the fix I've been looking for

Sadly, it won't work. I use the DS4 as imput for my headphones. Tried the game without controller. No difference at all....

Martinbooker
22-09-2017, 17:10
Sadly, it won't work. I use the DS4 as imput for my headphones. Tried the game without controller. No difference at all....

Poo

hkraft300
22-09-2017, 17:44
Patch? What patch and how do you get it on the ps4?

There's a ~12gb patch that should've auto downloaded when you installed the game. In the PS home screen, select pc2, hit options on the DS4 then check for updates.


Tried the game without controller. No difference at all....

In PC1 it used to interfere. So that rules out the DS4.

Martinbooker
23-09-2017, 00:51
Another evening of racing ends in frustration :-(

Been trying to calibrate both myself and my G29 using Imola and BAC mono as a test bed. its a track I know very well and my plan was to totally nail down one car to remove "different car" as a variable in getting the FFB somewhere near.

3 hours of messing around with sliders and I'm just nowhere near still. Getting no surface feedback at all and at this point in time the much hyped progressive traction loss is nowhere to be seen, just the same old sudden spit you out. I don't doubt the tyre model is good but there's no point it being there if there's no communication as to what it's doing.

At this point I gave up and went for the new algarve track with the little Honda prototype track day car. This combo does seem a little better but it's introduced a new problem in so much as the wheel weight is now constantly changing! If I go off track, when I rejoin, the steering goes light until I run over the rumble strips which then sends it heavy again.

I'm gutted

Aldo Zampatti
23-09-2017, 01:30
Another evening of racing ends in frustration :-(

Been trying to calibrate both myself and my G29 using Imola and BAC mono as a test bed. its a track I know very well and my plan was to totally nail down one car to remove "different car" as a variable in getting the FFB somewhere near.

3 hours of messing around with sliders and I'm just nowhere near still. Getting no surface feedback at all and at this point in time the much hyped progressive traction loss is nowhere to be seen, just the same old sudden spit you out. I don't doubt the tyre model is good but there's no point it being there if there's no communication as to what it's doing.

At this point I gave up and went for the new algarve track with the little Honda prototype track day car. This combo does seem a little better but it's introduced a new problem in so much as the wheel weight is now constantly changing! If I go off track, when I rejoin, the steering goes light until I run over the rumble strips which then sends it heavy again.

I'm gutted

have you tried Jack's config?
http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?51628-Jack-Spade-Custom-FFB-Files

hkraft300
23-09-2017, 01:34
...currently I have it set to RAW having tried Informative and Immersive and almost everything set at 100 except FX which is at 50...

I'll bet your wheel is clipping.
Have you looked at the ffb graph in telemetry?

Ease up on the settings. My wheel was clipping at raw 100/50.
Try Raw Gain 100, volume 45 and the rest default 50.
The other "flavours" may actually need lower volume, because SoP and "road feel" etc all are extra work for the G29 that it can't handle all that well.

Also, try a race car. An older (pre-2000) one maybe. The F50GT at Imola was incredible last night.

sirio994
23-09-2017, 01:41
Another evening of racing ends in frustration :-(

Been trying to calibrate both myself and my G29 using Imola and BAC mono as a test bed. its a track I know very well and my plan was to totally nail down one car to remove "different car" as a variable in getting the FFB somewhere near.

3 hours of messing around with sliders and I'm just nowhere near still. Getting no surface feedback at all and at this point in time the much hyped progressive traction loss is nowhere to be seen, just the same old sudden spit you out. I don't doubt the tyre model is good but there's no point it being there if there's no communication as to what it's doing.

At this point I gave up and went for the new algarve track with the little Honda prototype track day car. This combo does seem a little better but it's introduced a new problem in so much as the wheel weight is now constantly changing! If I go off track, when I rejoin, the steering goes light until I run over the rumble strips which then sends it heavy again.

I'm gutted

There is no way to fix via settings. It's such a complex mix of problems. I gave up already, i'm not going to play the game until they'll fix it.

I spent a couple of hours yesterday doing the same. Usually when a new racing game is released, the first days are almost fully dedicated to testing: cars, track, settings and AI.

But that testing is usefull to the future experience, this is not. In this situation is a waste of time. It's only frustrating.

Project Cars was my number one racing game. I love to play endurance races. A patch is coming to fix the AI and from what i'm seeing difficulty levels are different.

I know i'll have to test the AI, its aggressiveness, the AI co-driver, the penalty system and the high number of new settings that affect strategy and fuel/tyre consumption.

At the moment i can't even test the AI since the car is so frustrating to control. I can't even think about lap times.

Racing games are hard to get right at the release. They tend to be full of bugs and we are accustomed to it. A lot of times we hear the word "broken". It is largely abused, but in this case it fits the situation.

Rarely there are real game breaking problems. This is one of those. At the moment the game isi litterally unplayable with the combination PS4-G29.

I'm already in a "hope it won't take months" kind of mentality...

sirio994
23-09-2017, 01:48
I'll bet your wheel is clipping.
Have you looked at the ffb graph in telemetry?

Ease up on the settings. My wheel was clipping at raw 100/50.
Try Raw Gain 100, volume 45 and the rest default 50.
The other "flavours" may actually need lower volume, because SoP and "road feel" etc all are extra work for the G29 that it can't handle all that well.

Also, try a race car. An older (pre-2000) one maybe. The F50GT at Imola was incredible last night.

From what i saw doing my tests. The more you get closer to a open wheel the more the problem is pronounced...

RacedriverTim
23-09-2017, 01:50
Same problem for me. Light wheel even on extreme settings. Unresponsive (it seems like it has a huge dead zone even if i set at zero, central 90 degrees or so are almost no feedback). Brake pedals and clutch don't feel good too in default settings.

It sound absurd but this thread makes me happy. I though it was me, everyone is enjoying the game and loving the new force feedback (while i would take the old back).

Something is off...


No way this is the true force feedback. 100% sure it is a bug or a problem they are going to fix. But this isn't the true force feedback of tbe G29 on PS4.

The problem isn't the wheel weight. The wheel is not only light. It's unresponsive. Every single aspect of.the feedback feels off.

I refuse to even think this is the real feedback.


It's definitely not working. The Tone option does nothing. I've tried it 0 to 100 now and it has no effect, from Informative to Raw.

Bumping over curbs, grass, dirt gets feedback so that works. I can set the steering heavy or light, so that works.

I notice the ffb on the motec HUD seems think feedback is happening. Interestingly I have a permanent full red bar on the right-most part of the graph yet all the other bars are registering small blue effects but they never go really high.

I do with the the opinion of more G29 users. There must be loads out there struggling with this.


Loads...essentially anyone who has experience with racing, racing games and sims.

It's easy to understand it's not only weight related and it's not a new "handling model".

I'm 100% sure this is something new. I can't even think about the possibility that testers didn't see it.

The game went through long testing (beta, builds & co) and it took a couple of minutes to us to see it.

Must be a recent problem...

Same here, I have exactly the same issue with Logitech G29 and I'm really glad to see, that I'm not the only one. I did a race with my friends, many with other wheels than a G29 on PS4 but those who have a G29 said the same to me. It's like you would steer with the wheel but through your controller... The input is, no matter how I change my settings, still the same. It's like you have dead zone on 70 and just want to steer 30 degrees and NOTHING happens. And then suddenly at 180 degrees left turning you steer like 70 percent. So to speak from 0 to 70 in 1 second and then from 70 to 100 in another second.
As a real world racing driver I'm clearly confused about that and I hope that this is just a temporary problem because it will not connect to me as if this was the "new FFB". It's way worse than PC1 and all the other players didn't really have to meet this issues.
And yes, I think it's a problem which occured just after release. And only on PlayStation. There would be NO sim racer in the world who wouldn't think: "wtf is this about?" Even if it's worse on some cars than others. Try the current community event on COTA with the IndyCar, that is horrible.

Eventually, I want to utilize 100% of my wheel and of PCARS2, but yeah, we can just hope that SMS will fix this very soon. Don't blame SMS for it though, it can happen but now my wrists hurt LUL :confused:

Edit: sorry for long post ;)

mattikake
23-09-2017, 01:53
I'll bet your wheel is clipping.
Have you looked at the ffb graph in telemetry?

Ease up on the settings. My wheel was clipping at raw 100/50.
Try Raw Gain 100, volume 45 and the rest default 50.
The other "flavours" may actually need lower volume, because SoP and "road feel" etc all are extra work for the G29 that it can't handle all that well.

Also, try a race car. An older (pre-2000) one maybe. The F50GT at Imola was incredible last night.

Thanks for the input but it's futile.

I've been fiddling long enough to try almost every single combination at 15# increments from raw to informative. The only way I could get realistically heavy steering was to put the settings high on raw with the dampers to 85+. Immersive and Informative are pathetic. As implied, it's like driving a city supermini with OAP power steering. - Light, feel-less and useless with humongus central deadspots of 15 degrees or more. I was hammering down the main straight at Road American in an IndyCar at 170mph and I could wobble the steering with two fingers. A disgusting "feel".

According to the motec ffb graph it was clipping horribly but I didn't feel a thing. Nothing. It's clear it's not been programmed and isn't working.

I'm also not remotely interested in road cars, gt cars etc. Single seaters are my interest. Indeed, my experience.

PC1 seemed to have no trouble giving me the info I needed to set very fast times in a lot of cars with sop set on my G29. I don't believe it can't handle it for moment. All it has to do is go light at times when traction is slipping away and go heavier when downforce increases in high downforce cars. Any FFB wheel should be able to do that.

sirio994
23-09-2017, 02:09
Same here, I have exactly the same issue with Logitech G29 and I'm really glad to see, that I'm not the only one. I did a race with my friends, many with other wheels than a G29 on PS4 but those who have a G29 said the same to me. It's like you would steer with the wheel but through your controller... The input is, no matter how I change my settings, still the same. It's like you have dead zone on 70 and just want to steer 30 degrees and NOTHING happens. And then suddenly at 180 degrees left turning you steer like 70 percent. So to speak from 0 to 70 in 1 second and then from 70 to 100 in another second.
As a real world racing driver I'm clearly confused about that and I hope that this is just a temporary problem because it will not connect to me as if this was the "new FFB". It's way worse than PC1 and all the other players didn't really have to meet this issues.
And yes, I think it's a problem which occured just after release. And only on PlayStation. There would be NO sim racer in the world who wouldn't think: "wtf is this about?" Even if it's worse on some cars than others. Try the current community event on COTA with the IndyCar, that is horrible.

Eventually, I want to utilize 100% of my wheel and of PCARS2, but yeah, we can just hope that SMS will fix this very soon. Don't blame SMS for it though, it can happen but now my wrists hurt LUL :confused:

Edit: sorry for long post ;)

I agree. You can feel the deadzone (even if it's not the only problem). A deadzone is there and that's the reason why it is more pronunced on open wheels or cars with a reduced wheel in terms of degrees.

Yeah there's no way to even think this is the true ffb. Racing and driving experience tells this is not the real force feedback, sim racing experience tells this is not settings-related...

At the moment there's not a lot we can do. We cannot even describe the problem, it's simply impossibile to describe.

SMS devs can only sit, play with a G29 on PS4 and feel it themselves...

RacedriverTim
23-09-2017, 02:14
(Two posts above) I can only underline this statement, I will expand it with roadcars and gt cars because I have the most relation to them: On Roadcars it still feels strange. The same feeling that you cannot steer until you steer way too much. In GT Cars it differs from car to car. BMW M6 GTLM is a great example for complete garbage, I wouldn't have to buy a wheel for it, I just could use the DS4. In Porsche GT1 of 1998 it's more like on the roadcars and yeah: IndyCar is just complete WTF???

BUT: I'm confident we will have a hotfix for that Soon™ and till then I won't play PCARS2 anymore because it's currently unplayable and I want to keep my wrists :D

Edit: sirio994: Exactly my feeling, yeah, there are more in depth problems with ffb in general. Really nothing is coming through to my wheel, but there are more detailed posts 1 and 2 pages before. Yeah, I think it's the problem because on PS4 it wasn't tested through WMD pre-season so to speak. On PC G29 apparently work as it should! :thinking:
Edit No.2: But I excuse SMS and BN because they really did make a great simracing title and that there will be bugs was like written on paper. Maybe they learn of this and get things better in PC3 ;) It still remains probably the best racing game on the market. In the end it will be a great experience for us as well !!!

sirio994
23-09-2017, 02:35
I remember reading something like this. Devs and testers only operated on PC. They had the console version at very end. Bugs are always there. That's the reality of racing games when they are released. Obviously it's a bit scaring when they affect the handling model or the force feedback. But as long as it's working on PC, we're not in trouble. Plus the G29 is a commercial wheel (like the T300). We are not talking about a rare hardware...

VVVKahless
23-09-2017, 03:43
I don't think this is only a problem on PS4. I am using a G25 on PC and having very similar issues. The FFB feels dead. Have tried many different settings and can't get it to feel anywhere near as responsive as it was in PC1. I've been following this thread hoping someone would know a solution but it's seeming more and more that we'll just have to wait for them to fix it. Very disappointing, I've been looking forward to this game for quite a while and now that it's here, I can't play it.

sirio994
23-09-2017, 04:01
It's really hard to tell. For sure the G29 on PS4 is the most affected wheel. It could sound like a Logitech thing but there's a thread about the T300 ffb deadzone.

G29 on PS4 for sure
Logitech on different platforms (still not clear)
Ffb in general (there are signs but i don't think so)

Martinbooker
23-09-2017, 09:22
have you tried Jack's config?
http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?51628-Jack-Spade-Custom-FFB-Files

Thank you, I'll give that a whirl :)

AceVice
23-09-2017, 10:49
Me too with problems... it is difficult to explain, some kind of erratic behaviour. Sometimes it seems to be working in a decent way, but others no

Martinbooker
23-09-2017, 11:21
With the bac mono and other short wheelbase stuff, you put steering input in and it suddenly seems to "snap" to that steering angle almost like, as others have described, there's a deadzone that once breached will suddenly react rather than it progressively matching your steering input. Like a lag that misses some frames and suddenly skips to catch up.

in high speed corners this then either ends in either chronic understeer or sudden snap oversteer, in low speed stuff I'm finding not enough not enough not enough suddenly WAY too much and veering sharp left or right.

This also appears to be independent from the other FFB issues, lack of track feel etc

Martinbooker
23-09-2017, 11:26
To expand.. it feels like a deadzone that where it should start from steering angle zero once breached, suddenly goes from zero to like 15 degree steering angle as if I'd suddenly yanked the wheel round which has, well, exactly the effect you'd expect in real life and more pronounced on small flickable cars.

I'm rambling now :-)

luv2drive
23-09-2017, 13:45
I just wanted to say that I have a G29 and the "out-of-the-box" experience seems very realistic to me, and I haven't felt the need to tweak the FFB settings at all.

That being said, every car is going to handle differently - that's the point of the game.

For example, the McLaren that is the default for your first "custom race", is very squirrelly and may seem "uncontrollable". One of the issues is braking and I saw in another thread the suggestion to increase the brake force for the pedals. Maybe brake balance changes might help as well. Presumably this is just the way that car handles in its default config.

Try a GT3 car, like the Ferrari 488 GT3, which I'm just loving BTW! Much easier to control with OOB settings. I didn't touch one setting and I'm having a blast.

If you still can't control that car, then maybe there's some other issue - but it doesn't pass the reasonable man test that they would release a game that didn't work well with one of the most prevalent wheels out there. From my impression, and many others that I've read, the physics in PC2 are a definite improvement over PC1.

Also, I'm thinking for tweaking the car's handling, much more focus should be spent on all of the myriad of car tuning parameters, rather than FFB settings, which I would think would only need minor tweaks to adjust to personal preference.

Just my 2 cents

RacedriverTim
23-09-2017, 14:26
I just wanted to say that I have a G29 and the "out-of-the-box" experience seems very realistic to me, and I haven't felt the need to tweak the FFB settings at all.

That being said, every car is going to handle differently - that's the point of the game.

For example, the McLaren that is the default for your first "custom race", is very squirrelly and may seem "uncontrollable". One of the issues is braking and I saw in another thread the suggestion to increase the brake force for the pedals. Maybe brake balance changes might help as well. Presumably this is just the way that car handles in its default config.

Try a GT3 car, like the Ferrari 488 GT3, which I'm just loving BTW! Much easier to control with OOB settings. I didn't touch one setting and I'm having a blast.

If you still can't control that car, then maybe there's some other issue - but it doesn't pass the reasonable man test that they would release a game that didn't work well with one of the most prevalent wheels out there. From my impression, and many others that I've read, the physics in PC2 are a definite improvement over PC1.

Also, I'm thinking for tweaking the car's handling, much more focus should be spent on all of the myriad of car tuning parameters, rather than FFB settings, which I would think would only need minor tweaks to adjust to personal preference.

Just my 2 cents

No, no, no. The interesting problem is, that a part of G29 users are experiencing this issue and others like you apparently don't. If you want to assume that we all are unsensitive drivers then please read the four pages before. You'll see that we are not complete idiots driving a race sim.

I drove the McLaren and I could drive it but it wasn't the best experience. A BMW M6 GTLM is indeed much more like it but wtf are you saying? That we need to drive other cars and it will be better? I drove a variety of cars and there are always the same symptoms. Sometimes more, sometimes less worse.

In conclusion every FFB setting I tried it was always the same and it won't change unless they fix that. If you're not sophisticating these problems, congrats and please don't try to justify SMS and BN's failure with the G29. The FFB will be really good but we cannot enjoy its beauty until they fix it.
It is fact, there is a huge problem with some user's wheels. With every car and every setting. Even stock setup.

"That being said, every car is going to handle differently - that's the point of the game." I had to extract this, that statement is highly insulting for all who have this issue and you want to say that it's all deliberate and we are complete noobs. Sure, I would invite you to me (if you wouldn't live in murica) to test it and then you would see the difference and overthink your naive statement.

hkraft300
23-09-2017, 14:29
Somebody sticky that post ^

sirio994
23-09-2017, 15:31
The feeling is different from car to car. We all agree with it, but if you look at our reports you will find detailed feelings. This is a mid-high level sim. Plus the G29 is involved.

The G29 is not a casual wheel. The G29 and T300 are good wheels. Usually people who buy a G29 are amateur racers, hardcore sim racers or hardcore racing fans in general. So they are supposed to have an idea of driving a race cars. Plus anyone who has the simple driving license can compare the feeling of a road car to the real counterpart. Experienced sim racers use to play other and more accurate sims (iracing, rfacotr, assetto corsa).

The less experienced player has a driving license or is a kid who at least once has driven a go kart.

Plus many of us have driven some exact car models of the game...

I think we can't even say it refering to open wheels since many of us know the type of feeling.

Racers and simracers who try for the first time a formula 1 professional simulator tend to say the same exact thing (the feedback from the wheel is brutal).

Indy cars drivers and oval racers use to tell that oval racing is all,about feeling the tyre grip every moment.

Anyway, the wheel, itself is not the problem. The G29 is kwnown to be a light wheel. Its fffb is lighter compared to a fanatec or a T300/500. But we are not talking about a wheel a little light. Many of mentioned the word "deadzone" which tells everything since it's non exhistant in real life.

Tyre grip feedback in a real car tends to reduce in,small degrees but in this game is litterally at zero...

luv2drive
23-09-2017, 17:04
@RaceDriverTim, so sorry I didn't mean to be insulting. I was just putting force a couple of ideas.

Having not experienced this myself, I have no idea what you and others may be going through. Seems weird that it would work for some wheels and not others, but some bugs are just weird.

Very sorry you and others are having that experience - given how you've described it I guess I'll just count myself lucky that whatever the issue is, it isn't affecting me. Believe me I know how it is to be on the other end of "weird issues".

Apologies again. I hope that SMS can identify the problem here and fix it for you and others ASAP!

Martinbooker
23-09-2017, 17:37
Right, so watching this video review here:

https://youtu.be/Dl3xS6PcOks

The dude reckons the Honda 2&4 concept is one of the very best physics wise in the game and virtually indistinguishable from the assetto corsa version (scrub to 2:40 if you wanna skip straight to it). I have AC but not that particular car unfortunately but have been solid hotlapping in it pretty much since it launched so I reckon I have a good idea in my head what this particular car would feel like to drive with my G29.

So, I fired up PC2, grabbed the Honda and tried oulton park on time trial. Oulton is definitely laser scanned (unlike Imola I've since discovered) so should be a good test.

Went for FFB settings as follows:
Flavour RAW
Gain 100.
Volume / tone / fx all 50

I gotta say, MUCH better feeling now. Can feel the track, caught a few massive slides, clicked with the car generally and am currently 3rd on the leaderboard with a 1:43.

Other people struggling, fire up that specific combination and settings, turn a few laps and report back. Be interested to see what people come back with

Edit: default setup for the Honda also I should mention

Shogun613
23-09-2017, 18:24
Just a thought for my fellow G29 users who are having issues - have you connected to a PC and calibrated the hardware with the Logitech software? Also, you may be able to see if your wheel might have issues using the PC's device manager...

Martini Da Gasalini
23-09-2017, 18:34
My FFB settings (im still fine tuning)
Raw 99, Volume 55, Tone 55, FX 60

The feel weight and resistance feels very good, only thing I'm not really feeling are the small things like tge rummble strips, I think i feel some tire slip but where i would like it to be

SnowLeopard
24-09-2017, 03:13
Have you all seen this video about FFB:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gW5ESYLlNnk
If it isn't an official video, it's an insider video. Granted it's made on pre-release PC version, and uses a T300, but that hardly makes it irrelevant. It recommends Knockhill International as a good track to test FFB thanks to it's bumpiness and elevation change in the curves. Among the cars it recommends for FFB testing is the McLaren that is among the tops times in community time trial. I was already using both of those for my tests before finding this video.
It goes into detail explaining each of the force feedback settings and also the new telemetry graphs. The description has a link to a google docs spreadsheet of all cars and tracks with a rating of how good the FFB is.

At 10:15 of the video, the Damper Saturation setting is discussed. It's quite straightforward, but it does not seem to have any effect for me... I've tried it at 100 and at 0 and the wheel weight is not noticeably different. Can anyone confirm whether it has any effect for them or not?
(Side note, the Menu Spring Strength does change the wheel resistance when in menus)

At 21:50 the FFB telemetry graphs are discussed and shown while on track. If I'm not mistaken, what is shown has a little bit of clipping, correct? It was hard to watch my own graphs while driving (I'll save a video later), but my bar graphs were less than half what's in the video and I did not get any clipping, and I had not really noticed the horizontal bar graph that indicates overall FFB strength!

Overall, I get plenty of feedback when going around Knockhill, but the wheel just has very little resistance and nothing I've tried changing affects it in any way (increase or decrease).

Civic
24-09-2017, 06:20
EDIT:My settings have changed now and you can find them here http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?51439-Help-struggling-with-FFB-on-G29&p=1362969&viewfull=1#post1362969 There also seems to be a speed related bug in the FFB.

This will be my exhaustive guide and following this I will post an abbreviated guide for those whose head hurts reading this.

EDIT: Don't adjust your FFB in the wet only in the dry as there is less FFB strength in the wet.

I have a G29 and I'm getting great FFB in most cars on the PS4. I'll go as far as saying in the right cars PCARS2 has my favourite FFB of any sim I have tried recently and often beats AC but sometimes falls short in certain cars. I'm primarily a PC Sim racer and this is the first time I've really tried a sim on the PS4. I'll list my settings below but first I'll address a few things I have seen in other posts in this thread.

That video is terrible, if people try to learn how to set a G29 from that video they will only be learning bad habits that will prevent them from any type of good result.

To the guy trying to tune FFB using the BAC Mono, don't. There is an issue with that car where the FFB is inconsistent with other cars, the FFB is bad with the BAC Mono no matter what you do and the best setting with it will not be enjoyable in other cars as it will result in very weak FFB in other cars.


have you tried Jack's config?
http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?51628-Jack-Spade-Custom-FFB-Files

This is the PS4 forum. The Jack Spade settings are PC only unfortunately.


Okay I'll list my settings first but keep in mind that these are set to my preference and do not work with every car, you may have a different preference and I'll tell you how to find that from my settings. I'll also tell you how to tweak these for different cars and explain why certain universal settings don't work for every car and why SMS made a mistake by not allowing the option of setting FFB per car.

But the biggest disclaimer is that I have not yet made my mind up completely about where I prefer them to be dialled in exactly. I'll point out my rough range for each after the settings and what each do, the compromises you must choose and why I prefer the settings there.

My starting G29 settings for most cars that I enjoy driving.

Flavour = Informative
Gain = 100 but I will reduce it between 70 and 100 for some cars like the BAC Mono otherwise it will result in clipping and a clunky wheel around the centre.
Volume = 35...ish but you will most likely need a different setting due to the inconsistency in the hardware FFB curve of G29 wheels.
Tone = 20...ish
FX = 20...ish
The menu setting is partly important and I'll come back to that.

Also these settings have been made without adjusting the other wheel settings such as sensitivity. If you followed the video restore those to the default otherwise you will not get the same result as me. Don't muck around with sensitivity as suggested, that effects the steering curve not FFB. Dampening is an artificial dampening effect, it gives the weighted feeling of a real steering wheel at the expense of detail. Most people do not like dampening and if you feel like detail is missing in the FFB you should probably not run dampening. If you would like to add some feeling of weight while turning down some of the detail you might like a bit of dampening. If you want to mess with dampening only do so after everything else.

Flavour

On the PS4 with the G29 I find Immersive to be a broken setting and recommend against using it, I'm not sure if it effects all wheels the same way and is by design but it breaks the FFB for me.

As a preference I try to dial my FFB in for a realistic and informative feel. If two settings result in a similar feeling but one results in more crashing because I feel like there wasn't enough warning as the prior I pick the more informative. For me some of my settings have been chosen over others that I think feel better or more immersive because the settings I have result in better performance and are still very good. So you can see I have a preference to informative FFB over immersive FFB when it results in better performance due to the increased information. This should not be confused with the names of the flavours even though I find Informative to be the most informative flavour. I do not find Immersive to actually be Immersive however. I find Immersive to be rubbish.

RAW. You might like this setting as an alternative to Informative. It is possible to get a very good feeling with RAW but you will need to experiment more with the sliders from the settings I have above. This setting can be the most like iRacing but can be tuned to be more like AC.

Immersive. The reason I find Immersive broken is because it adds a spring effect and a strong tyre tyre effect even with 0 settings for Volume and Tone. Not only do I find the feeling very unrealistic I find that the information suppresses real information and the car is harder to drive. If I had to compare Immersive to a FFB of another Sim series it is reminiscent of the Simbin series FFB.

Informative. I find this one to be the most like AC out of the box. As above it is my flavour of choice.

Gain

What it says on the tin. For the most part I have this set to 100 but that setting sometimes results in clipping depending on other settings so in some cars you can use this as a quick tune without the need to change any other setting. In some cars i run this setting as low as 70.

Volume

The higher you have this set the lower you must set gain otherwise you will get clipping. If you feel like the FFB always just feels dead and heavy no matter what flavour you select you are most likely experiencing clipping and need to reduce either this or Gain.

Clipping

Lets talk about clipping for a moment before we get back to Volume. Unfortunately our G29 wheels are very weak and the downside is that we are trying to squeeze a wide range of forces into a much smaller working range. This is called compression and unfortunately with the low resolution of a G29 wheel it can result in different signals by the game feeling the same at the wheel. To deal with this smaller range you can do two things, you can compress all the telemetry into the working range of the wheel or you can set the ceiling lower and clip some unimportant signals. For optimal FFB with a G29 ideally you want a small amount of clipping so all the important information has a wider working range. Another way of dealing with this is with a non linear force curve (which our wheels are plagued with from standard anyway) but because of the small working range of our wheels this ends up feeling very similar or the same as clipping. I personally think it is preferable to compensate for the force curve of our wheels to bring the forces back to linear and not add to the force curve but this tends to be a prefernce that can vary widely from person to person.

When clipping occurs it means you have reached the max force the wheel can produce and any signal higher than this will feel exactly the same. Unfortunately this results in heavy steering with no ability to feel variations to forces.

At the other extreme in an effort to avoid clipping you can go too far in the other direction and waste part of the working range. Because of the strength of Direct Drive wheels many users do this intentionally but with our wheels this is not a luxury we can afford as due to the low resolution of our wheels turning down the FFB results in different forces all feeling the same at each step of resolution.

Back to Volume

Volume directly effects the force curve of our wheels but G29 wheels are very inconsistent and the right force curve setting in sim for my wheel will not be the right every G29 wheel and have a different result. For this reason only use my setting as a starting point and go from there. Generally I prefer as linear as possible force response so there is a chance you might prefer a stronger setting in combination with a lower gain setting but keep in mind that the more Volume you dial in the more compression there will be in the critical areas of FFB resulting in a loss of detail perception with our low resolution G29 wheels.

You may like a setting above 50 in combination with a lower Gain setting but keep in mind that Volume adjustments are very sensitive and small changes result in bigger adjustments required to Gain to avoid clipping.

Interestingly this is one of the most important settings for the feeling of details and lower means more detail so you might find even 35 too high but unfortunately anything below 35 results in a very weak FF for most cars. Refer again to the section on clipping to understand why we want to avoid too low of a setting with a G29. Also as we are talking about the FFB response curve too low of a setting will eventually result in too big of a scoop which may also be undesirable.

Honestly I think that 30 can feel more informative than 35 with my wheel but it just feels too weak at times.

That said in some cars even 35 result in too weak FFB but I tend to just put up with it and pretend the car has very strong power steering. This can be immersion breaking because it tends to happen in cars that have very strong steering forces in real life.

The volume setting is a compromise of Strength vs Immersion. The stronger you set it the weaker the immersive details are and the more dead it feels. At the other end with our weak wheels turning it down gives you more important information until the FFB just gets too weak to work with our wheels.

Tone

This one is an interesting setting. Based on the description you might imagine that this setting is very similar to the setting from other sims that blends the FFB input from rack to tyres however it behaves differently to that setting in other sims. In other sims this is a setting I tend to have closer to zero but in this sim this is one of the most important settings to why PC2 FFB feels better than other sims to me however I think it is closely related to the superior tyre model. Of course the disclaimer is PC2 is far too inconsistent and while some cars feel incredible some feel like we are still driving the Simbin games.

One of the reasons this setting is interesting is because of the effect it has in making the FFB inconsistent and I suspect this in large an issue with the effect tyre stiffness has on FFB in combination with the tone setting. The settings I have given seem to work poorly with some cars that I suspect have stiffer sidewall modelled or a poorly modelled tyre because my suspicion is the tyre model implementation in PC2 is incomplete.

Another reason this setting is so interesting is because this setting forces you to compromise between feeling loss of grip from the rear end of the car vs loss of grip from the front of the car.

The further right you set it the more front end tyre slip you will feel but you will find it harder to identify rear end slip early.

My preference for this setting seems to be in the 15-20 range. Anything above 20 seems to result in spins that I feel I was unable to anticipate.

Tone and Volume are interactive in that both settings effect your perception of tyre slip and you may want to play with each to dial in your preference. If you are using something other than a G29 with more force available you might be able to run less Volume and more Tone for a more immersive feeling without compromising performance but I have not been able to test this.

FX

This setting is so disappointing. I think the reason it is disappointing is because I have a feeling that this does not provide simple canned effects like other sims but rather effects the tuning of various FFB settings in relation to feeling details. That's not to say the FFB does not have canned FFB FX, clearly it does because some ripple strips vibrate the steering in a way that just is not possible if you understand how game physics and FFB works but that is irrelevant for this conversation.

In case you are confused I should explain the reason I am disappointed is this setting doesn't work intuitively in a way where you can simply blend in FX like you can in AC. Instead this setting does odd things which can have a masking effect on the great FFB so an ideal setting with this can never be strong enough to dial in strong FX.

On the plus side a low Volume setting is great for contributing to the feeling of curbs and details that you would normally associate with FX so in combination with the other settings the low settings here don't result in a terrible FFB experience.

Again this setting is a compromise. The higher you set it the more it enhances the feeling of bumps and vibrations but at the expense of all other FFB details with a setting that is too high.

If you make the mistake of selecting Immersive as your flavour the FX setting will increase the flop of the wheel and the spring of the tyre effect and the dampening effect. All of these feel terrible. I guess it is trying to be similar to AC but it fails and just feels far too exaggerated. And I feel you can get the FFB more like AC or even better using Informative anyway but that might be a preference thing and if you still think Informative isn't like your setting in AC perhaps you want to try Immersive and add more FX.

But for me a too high setting of FX is the second most critical thing to a poor experience of FFB after clipping.

Menu Spring

Interestingly this might be an important setting for immersion depending on other settings because this setting effects the spring effect applied to your wheel when the car is on auto-drive such as you might experience in the pits depending on your settings. I prefer a light setting as i don't like a heavy menu spring but too light of a setting here will make your steering feel unpleasantly light if you have auto-drive on in the pits and too high a setting will make your steering feel too heavy.

Interactivity

I've brought this up multiple times so by now you should be well aware that each setting can effect various perceptions in the FFB and if you lose something with one setting you may be able to bring it back with another. That also means when you experiment from my settings which I recommend you do especially in dialling in the Volume curve to your preference this may effect other settings.

But your Gain should always be set to achieve as much force as possible without clipping which will be effected by all the other setting but especially volume.

Volume will effect the linearity or compression you feel which can result in the loss of detail and I have a hunch that the flavours all have a different base curve which you will be altering.

Tone will effect where the details come from which effects the perception of events and will may result in the loss of certain details.

FX effects certain details such as bumps, vibrations and steering feel but at the expense of masking other details.

So every setting effects the details from other settings and it is both a balance of taste and balancing the settings in a way that doesn't adversely effect something else you might like.

Tweaking inconsistent FFB

Unfortunately the cars are inconsistent and depending on your FFB setting especially in regards to tone your FFB experience can go from good to too weak or way too strong just by switching cars.

PC2 as it is really need for us to be able to tweak and save FFB per car. Because we can't save and because I'm lazy I prefer to leave my settings alone and only tweak Gain down. This results in some cars feeling too weak but I just live with it. You may prefer more Volume with less Gain but I don't like the loss of detail perception this setting produces.

Conclusion

Something I hate are FFB guides that dictate exact settings. As one of the first people to own a G29, I am aware of the variation that exists in these Logitech wheels especially regarding the Force Curve but I've also seen some testing variations in other areas and these tend to be some of the most inconsistent of all Logitech wheels (I still think they are the best wheel Logitech has made). But the biggest reason is I am very aware of how widely individual preference can vary and although I have always set my Logitech wheels to act as linear as possible in sims I know others often prefer a more aggressive force curve. I have always felt the compression that an aggressive force curve adds doesn't work with the low resolution of our logitech wheels which results in the loss of information regarding important FFB details. I think that is what is happening with the Volume setting here and may be why a lower setting works better as I mentioned earlier.

I think the FFB and tyre model in PC2 in many cars is the best I have experience in any Sim when it is dialled in even with my G29 so I hope I have helped you understand the FFB a bit so that you are able to experience a similar result to me.

The cons are the cars are inconsistent as mentioned and as a result this results in the constant need to tweak FFB not to mention that while some cars feel incredible and are the best sim driving experience I have had other cars are so bad they have me relating them to driving old Simbin games. That's too great of a variation. And of course unlike other sims because we can't save FFB per car it means we will need to be constantly tweaking.

I've been writing this for a while as you can imagine and I've gone back and changed things and edited and at this point can't remember what I have written or left out so there may be errors, there may even be parts that don't make sense but I'll post it unedited, then post the TLDR version then I might come back and read this for mistakes.

Civic
24-09-2017, 07:11
EDIT:My settings have changed now and you can find them here http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?51439-Help-struggling-with-FFB-on-G29&p=1362969&viewfull=1#post1362969 There also seems to be a speed related bug in the FFB.

As promised incase that post above hurt your head here is the TLDR version. But I really recommend reading the post above and skipping this one. I've done this in 2 halves, the first half is the TLDR version, the second half is for those who want some explanation but don't want to read the exhaustive post above and is a supplement to the first half to be read together.

Due to the inconsistency in modelling in PC2 there is no one size fits all approach to FFB settings and there are some terrible cars like the BAC Mono so you will need to tweak your settings for those. Do not use that car to set your FFB up, that will result in frustration.

Ideally you want to set up your FFB to work for the majority of cars and I'd recommend using Gain to tweak for various cars that are clipping with your base setting.

Do not adjust your Dampening or Steering Sensitivity as suggested in the video earlier as my suggestions will not work. Dampening should only ever be adjusted after you dial in you FFB to preference and Dampening is used to add weight to the steering at the expense of losing detail in the FFB. This is why generally most perople run no dampening in FFB although some people like the feeling of weight it adds. Steering Sensitivity does not effect your FFB, it changes your steering response curve, do not touch it. Really don't touch it and if someone tells you otherwise don't listen. If you have your steering wheel turned on in game and you change your steering sensitivity the movements in game will no longer match your wheel movements.

Do not adjust FFB in the wet. Because of the Tone setting FFB is weaker in the wet, set it in the dry to avoid frustration.

My Settings for you to start from.

FLAVOUR = Informative
GAIN = 100 - 70 Depends on the but start at 100 for most and reduce when you experience clipping or a clunky feeling at the center of the steering.
VOLUME = 35 Your wheel will most likely need a slightly different setting because this is the force curve and G29's vary wheel to wheel.
TONE = 20 Right gives more front end feel, left gives more rear end feel. Turn it up as much as you like but if you spin in corners unexpectedly turn it down for a better sense of the rear end.
FX = 20 A higher setting here may give you more road feel of bumps and steering wheel feel at the expense of details from other settings. If you can't feel front end slip it might not be your Tone setting, your FX might be too high.
MENU to taste, it's just how heavy your steering is when on auto drive in the pits and when you are in menus as the description says.


CLIPPING Is where your settings are too high and forces exceed the strength of your wheel. This results in a heavy feeling with no ability to feel details. This is what a lot of G29 users in this thread seem to be experiencing.

FLAVOUR Pick Informative for a G29. You might also like RAW but you will need to experiment more to find an optimal setting. I think Immersive is rubbish as it adds an exaggerated steering weight spring effect and tyre flop effect but some people might like this. My settings will most likely not work with Immersive.

GAIN Ideally you should be able to set it to 100 for the weaker cars and reduce the setting as the primary tweak for cars with stronger FFB that produce clipping. Because we use weak G29's in any sim that provides something like realistic FFB you will need to tweak from car to car and this is the main reason why SMS decision to not allow us to save FFB to each car as an option is a bad idea. We should be at least able to save a Gain setting per car with the ability to go over 1.

VOLUME I like this around 35. Because of the variation in G29's chances are my setting will not work for your wheel but use it as a starting point. This setting is also a matter of preference.

Volume effects the Linearity or Force Curve of the FFB. G29's have a positive hump in the force curve before any force is applied. Some people like this and some people even like to add to this but I think it negatively impacts FFB definition in a G29 or any logitech wheel due to the low force and low resolution of these wheels.

The higher you set this the lower your Gain setting will need to be to avoid clipping.

But Volume directly effects compression and details so experiment and if your FFB feels weak add more Gain but only add volume until you start to lose details. If you think you are missing details then perhaps your Volume is too high. Unfortunately the best setting for Volume in G29's can sometimes feel too weak.

TONE I have this set to 20 but like it as low as 15. Tone effects your feeling of the front wheels at the expense of understanding what the rear of the car is doing. Need my front end feel go right. Can't feel what the rear of the car is doing, go left. If you run a low Volume you should not require a high tone setting. Feeling FFB from the tyres is a very strange and artificial setting. 20 is actually pretty high IMO and I think this can be directly related to the excellent tyre model on most cars.

If one of your favourite cars is one that is what I would describe as the lesser models in PCAR2, you might need to experiment with Tone but keep in mind that if you alter tone you might also prefer a different Volume setting and will absolutely need to adjust your Gain setting and tweak you Gain setting more often.

FX FX is a compromise of the feeling of bumps, vibrations and steering feel at the expense of masking details. I have mine set at 20 but a lower setting of 15 may be preferable. If you choose Immersive this setting only amplifies the negatives I mentioned.

MENU This will effect the weight of your wheel on auto-drive in the pits.

Martinbooker
24-09-2017, 08:57
Epic postage Civic thank you!

Sooo, I went with a broken car FFB wise on a non laser scanned track trying to tweak with a flavour that doesn't work well with my wheel as my first toe in the water when the game came out. Sounds like I literally couldn't have started with a worse combination lolz.

To be fair, I think I'm starting to get it now. Can't get enough of the Honda 2&4 and now I'm hitting the properly laser scanned tracks, suggestions in post like the above are finally starting to make sense and represent what I'm seeing / feeling.

All I can say is PHEW and glad I stuck with it :-)

sirio994
24-09-2017, 10:26
Honestly settings are far away from being the problem. I don't know what kind of cars you are driving but i've tested them all (at one for class). Some cars might feel ok and only light by default or by accident (settings). The more you go closer to a open wheel the more it becomes clear that something is not working properly in the ffb system.

The wheel almost turns off at times in open wheels. Monza and Spa are two good tracks to test open wheels. The Eau Rouge is so emblematic with an open wheel. Monza makes thing even more clear. I can feel the feedback on the Parabolica (final turn). But the wheel turns off and on in slow turns and through the Lesmos.

So it's Spa. You can feel the ffb in and out of the deadzone....

Civic
24-09-2017, 13:07
Epic postage Civic thank you!

Thanks but I've gone through and done more testing and settled on different settings than I had. My new settings are slightly less informative but a little more immersive and I'll be sticking with them.... I think.

These settings should work for most G29 wheels. If it is too clunky reduce Volume and/or Tone slightly. If it is too light increase Volume until it gets clunky and drop it back down so it is no longer clunky. A good test is flat out at Indy in an open wheel in 4th gear and saw at the wheel. Don't go to a higher gear, more on this after the second quote.

These settings wont be ideal for someone wanting to run open wheel cars at high speed.

Flavour = Informative.
Gain = 100 but reduce in cars that experience clipping or are clunky through the dead zone at low speeds. More on this further down after the second quote.
Volume = 38 Starting point but tweak to personal taste.
Tone = 38 On my wheel this is my max setting before FFB starts to adversely effect the handling of the car. Reduce this setting if you want more rear end awareness.
FX = 45. 50 is the max setting I will run. It is a compromise as this setting does dampen other settings. 20 is the minimum I would run but you lose a lot of detail.

The settings in the earlier posts are too weak and not very immersive but I'm a better driver with them. I've compromised performance for Immersion with these settings.


Honestly settings are far away from being the problem. I don't know what kind of cars you are driving but i've tested them all (at one for class). Some cars might feel ok and only light by default or by accident (settings). The more you go closer to a open wheel the more it becomes clear that something is not working properly in the ffb system.

The wheel almost turns off at times in open wheels. Monza and Spa are two good tracks to test open wheels. The Eau Rouge is so emblematic with an open wheel. Monza makes thing even more clear. I can feel the feedback on the Parabolica (final turn). But the wheel turns off and on in slow turns and through the Lesmos.

So it's Spa. You can feel the ffb in and out of the deadzone....

Yes I don't spend much time in open wheel cars. The ones I drove were cars I considered to be some of the inferior cars. To test what you said I just jumped in the Formula A at Spa and I see this might be an issue with open wheel cars or ground effect cars or maybe it has something to do with speed.

So the issue I have noticed is the faster you go the stronger the FFB. At slow speeds the FFB feels almost no existent and at high speeds the FFB gets much stronger but for some reason it seems to be Volume that is effected not gain and for some strange reason Volume also seems to effect the minimum force setting which is something we can't adjust ourselves any other way. So what I have found is any combination of settings that is too high results in clunky FFB in and out of the deadzone. But as you point out you can set your FFB so that this clunkiness isn't an issue most of the time but in open wheel cars at high speed it comes back.

I'm curious to test other flavours and see what happens.

It does seem like an issue with the FFB. It is present in other slower cars as well but up until now I thought it was a bug in the low speed code as many sims have a different code for low speed. Now I think there seems to be a bug that causes FFB to increase with speed. For me in the cars I am enjoying I think it is a case that the way I set the FFB it is great at the speeds I am doing in those cars.

I thought I had it worked out but it seems it was only working most of the time for what I enjoyed. There still is a disappointing variation in the quality of modelling. But the FFB is looking to have a Bug at least in informative and most likely also Immersive as I always thought that was broken. I'm curious to test RAW more. I have been focusing on Informative because in my initial testing it seemed better to me than RAW.

Martinbooker
24-09-2017, 14:15
Even though raw was supposedly for direct drive wheels, it's definitely the flavour I've had the most success with

Civic
24-09-2017, 14:26
I've just tried RAW and it had the same issue with the Formula A at Spa so I assume that the issue will be the same with all. Interestingly setting tone very high gave me the best results when I switched back to informative. But I wouldn't call any FFB in that car great. It did however have an iRacing type of feel to it but that different FFB at different speed issue is a serious issue.

It's interesting how the FFB can at times feel better than I have ever experienced but then it is let down by an issue like this and in cars like the Formula A is some of the worst FFB I have ever experienced.

With all the issues, I have been thinking about taking the game back to the shop and getting the PC version. I'm worried from what I'm reading about how they have treated PC1 on the console that they might not ever fix some of these issues for the console users.

Civic
24-09-2017, 14:53
Well for what it's worth in certain cars you can feel the tyres much better and in some not so much. Of course I would never expect to be drifting a ground effect car so in that regard I mostly haven't encountered an issue in my testing yet with not being able to at least identify what the cars I've tested are doing to a realistic level that I'd expect.

On the other hand there is some serious inconsistency with cars and although inconsistency in cars seems to be common to other sims, I have never really seen it this bad or this widespread before. And I've already said somewhere else that when some cars i enjoyed in PC1 are bad in PC2 that's very disappointing.

But broken game is broken and the issues with the FFB feel terrible. I wonder if every console player got a refund if they would take fixing this game seriously. I keep thinking I should probably take my game back to the store.

I see people are reporting FFB improvements with the Jack Spade files on the PC so I assume the PC version does not have this FFB speed:strength issue.

sirio994
24-09-2017, 15:10
The good news is that there's a clear trend.

Type of car (->open wheel)
Speed (->unnatural way at lower speeds)
Degree of steering (->closer to the center)

We don't know, but it could be an easy problem to fix for the devs (maybe just the autotune that kicks in too much in certain conditions).

Raw is better at the moment, but i feel that informative is a lot better (it's weak, filtered by a deadzone, but feels great in those rare moments/cars/combinations that allow you to feel it)

Martinbooker
24-09-2017, 15:23
A few times I've had the distinct impression that the actual physics engine may be dropping processing frames as well leading to some FFB / handling inconsistencies. Heavily cpu based calculations like this will always be weaker on the consoles as this generation was all about nailing gpu performance at 1080p with the cpu being the bottleneck in most cases. Pure speculation on my part of course but I'm wondering if in the pc space, the guys complaining about poorer FFB performance are the ones rocking i5's instead of i7's.

Edit: that said, AC nails it albeit with less cars on track and no dynamic weather

Martini Da Gasalini
24-09-2017, 16:21
I'm trying your settings civic, although i do feel the rummble strips, the feeling of the wheel seems too soft or light compared to my settings, also I feel like there is a noticable deadzone now compared to my original settings even though i have steering deadzone set to zero

Martinbooker
24-09-2017, 17:37
The settings in the earlier posts are too weak and not very immersive but I'm a better driver with them. I've compromised performance for Immersion with these settings

I've tried both now and agree entirely with your findings. The settings in the earlier post, though weak, give amazing feedback. To the point where it's now possible to throw that little Honda around like a total loon Chris Harris style and if I do end up backwards in a hedge I know it's entirely my fault! Night and day to where I was on launch night with it.

understeer or fronts locking under heavy braking translate nicely, rear end on the edge and about to start coming round I can feel now as well with oversteer of both power out and lift off varieties coming through loud, clear and catchable. I'm reacting instinctively to each event which is the best indication that things are nicely set as it means the skills I've picked up with other sims now apply directly rather than learning to drive "the project cars way".

When i power out of a corner with the rear end not quite settled and squirming trying to bite the road for grip is now absolutely spot on where you know precisely where you are with whether to keep it nailed or lift slightly to get it settled.
Where before I was still getting the oscillation in the wheel with the squirming back end through ok but this more often than not would turn into an uncontrollable tank slapper.

Happy days. Civic, massive thanks for your really helpful posts on this. It's not an overstatement to say it's saved the game for me :-)

RacedriverTim
24-09-2017, 18:03
Thank you for the settings Civic, I highly appreciate your commitment, and I can confirm that it feels alot better now! Though I wonder if the FFB now is too light ;D But that's the tradeoff I have to go with apparently :D
Thank you again and I hope that works for others as well. I drove the BMW M3 DTM and it felt better than before. The "feeled" deadzone is not that big anymore and I can save the car from oversteer. That's more like it.

Eventually, I can only agree with Martinbooker, it saved the game :) Although I think it could be better, it's good now :)

Edit: I will test the game with the cars I drove before and will report if it's better with the cars as well...

Martini Da Gasalini
24-09-2017, 18:56
So i touched the settings a bit civic, I'm at Laguna Seca in The Benz e190 Evo, and clocked a time of 1:43.261 with
Informative
G 100
V 36
T 20
FX 24

The fx added that bit of weight i was looking for

Civic
24-09-2017, 21:03
The good news is that there's a clear trend.

Type of car (->open wheel)
Speed (->unnatural way at lower speeds)
Degree of steering (->closer to the center)

We don't know, but it could be an easy problem to fix for the devs (maybe just the autotune that kicks in too much in certain conditions).

Raw is better at the moment, but i feel that informative is a lot better (it's weak, filtered by a deadzone, but feels great in those rare moments/cars/combinations that allow you to feel it)

I don't think it is limited to open wheel cars. I think it applies to all cars but is more pronounced in very fast cars or maybe more pronounced in fast high downforce cars. But I think it is there in every car.

The reason I say this is because I drive out of the pits myself and if I stick to the Pit speed limit in any car the FFB in the pits is horribly weak in any car but once you go faster the FFB becomes is nice. That is why the earlier suggestion of testing at Spa is a great suggestion as Turn 19 at the Chicane and Turn 1 (La Source or the Hairpin) highlight the issue where the FFB goes very light but by the time you pass Raidillon FFB is at it's strongest during the fastest part of the track and it is stronger in all the faster corners than those very slow corners. Spa really highlights the issue of FFB changing with speed.

Generally in Sims there is a different code for Slow tyre physics/FFB VS the regular physics/FFB and some sims simply swap at a preset speed. Perhaps PC2 doesn't do it like this and has some type of transitional code and perhaps there is an issue with that.

If you want a great test of how the transition is currently working (incorrectly) go into a Indy or Formula A car at Indy Oval. Go flat out in each gear and hold it in each gear for a while and turn your wheel from side to side. Repeat this test in each gear and you will see the FFB gets stronger the faster you go. This is present in every car it's just less of an issue in cars that have a smaller average speed window. The Problem with ground effect cars is they still go very slow in very slow corners but they also go very fast and have a much wider operational speed window which is making the FFB:Speed bug more pronounced.

sirio994
24-09-2017, 21:20
I suggested Spa for its variety of corners and elevation changes or bumps. It's probably the single track that contains the most. At Spa you can experience almost everything from one corner to another without having to change track.

Yeah i was about to test ovals, since it's the best environment to get a constant feedback of tyre grip. I'll test it with and without your settings to see the difference.

Civic
24-09-2017, 21:49
My setting won't help the FFB:Speed issue. I'm about to test a theory about using more Volume and less Gain to reduce the impact of the FFB:Speed bug.

The theory is that more Volume will increase the Force Curve creating a compression that makes low medium forces feel stronger compared to high medium forces. The weakest forces and the strongest forces will still be terribly different so driving slow in the pits will feel like FFB is set too low and top speed in a ground effect car will be as strong as you set it. But I think by using and agressive Volume setting with less Gain it will be possible to compress the FFB into an area where everywhere but driving very slow feels more consistent. This will result in FFB sometimes disappearing but being consistently better feeling.

Unfortunately if this test works it will still suffer the issues of compression that I talked about earlier. It will most likely also suffer from that clunky feeling in and out of the centre of FFB because I suspect the Volume setting also effects minimum force. That is why I doubt my settings will universally work for all G29 users since the required minimum force setting for a G29 varies form as little as 4% to as much as 20% with most falling into the 12%-16% range. My wheel falls on the high side of average requiring about 14.5% minimum force with settings of 15%+ starting to feel clunky in and out of the deadzone. Turning Volume up to 39 or higher has a similar effect to adjusting my minimum force to 15% or higher in other sims. That is why I settled at 38 for Volume in my settings earlier.

Civic
24-09-2017, 21:53
Can anyone who knows please respond to this.

Is there a setting I have missed? Where can I find this "steering deadzone" setting?

Or is Martini using a Fanatec wheel with this setting on the wheel?


I'm trying your settings civic, although i do feel the rummble strips, the feeling of the wheel seems too soft or light compared to my settings, also I feel like there is a noticable deadzone now compared to my original settings even though i have steering deadzone set to zero

RacedriverTim
24-09-2017, 22:40
Can anyone who knows please respond to this.

Is there a setting I have missed? Where can I find this "steering deadzone" setting?

Or is Martini using a Fanatec wheel with this setting on the wheel?

Above the setting of "steering sensitivity" ;) At least on console, not sure if it's a thing on PC as well.

I tried the other cars and I have to say that you cured the disease I had in the game the last two days, thank you so much! :love_heart:

sirio994
24-09-2017, 22:57
Steering deadzone won't help with ffb deadzone though. I'm loving this thread. It gives more than enough informations to the devs.

Now i would be very courious to test the game on PC.

Did anyone test it? It seems like a platform related issue.

I tried the steering deadzone at zero yesterday, it didn't change anything. Basic wheel settings are ok on default (except for the brake sensitivity). The G29 is perfect with it at 50 (1:1 ratio). The brake pedal is already stiff by its own...

Martini Da Gasalini
24-09-2017, 23:12
Above the setting of "steering sensitivity" ;) At least on console, not sure if it's a thing on PC as well.

I tried the other cars and I have to say that you cured the disease I had in the game the last two days, thank you so much! :love_heart:

Yes correct on PS4, the dead zone kinda went away when i raised FX to 24. And i have the g29

Civic
24-09-2017, 23:15
Above the setting of "steering sensitivity" ;) At least on console, not sure if it's a thing on PC as well.

I tried the other cars and I have to say that you cured the disease I had in the game the last two days, thank you so much! :love_heart:

Cheers, I already found it. Of course I couldn't see it before, it was right at the top and I subconsciously ignored it because it isn't related to FFB, SMH. I was hoping there was some type of minimum force setting we had control over but there isn't. Deadzone is a different thing, it is the amount you can move an input before it registers movement in the game.

The clunky movement of a Logitech wheel in and out of the deadzone is related to FFB and directly related to minimum force. Logitech wheels require a minimum force of approximately 12%-15% to move. Any force sent to your wheel is between 0-1, 0 being no force and 1 being max force. Due to the design a Logitech wheel does not move at all when a small force is applied. So if your minimum force required is 12% what this means is your wheel will not move until the input it receives is above 0.12. It isn't constant and minimum force required does fluctuate. It isn't that your wheel isn't trying to move, the problem is due to internal resistance the wheel simply will not move until the force is strong enough to overcome internal resistance and that is why it can fluctuate.

Logitech wheels also seem to have a hardware FFB deadzone for some reason and this is not related to the deadzone setting but I did momentarily confuse it in my head when I read it earlier and that is why I asked the question. I guess part of me really wants us to have a minimum force setting independent of The Volume setting as we should and I was dreaming that perhaps I missed such a setting. No joy.

sirio994
24-09-2017, 23:58
"Flavour = Informative.
Gain = 100 but reduce in cars that experience clipping or are clunky through the dead zone at low speeds. More on this further down after the second quote.
Volume = 38 Starting point but tweak to personal taste.
Tone = 38 On my wheel this is my max setting before FFB starts to adversely effect the handling of the car. Reduce this setting if you want more rear end awareness.
FX = 45. 50 is the max setting I will run. It is a compromise as this setting does dampen other settings. 20 is the minimum I would run but you lose a lot of detail."

Are still these the newest settings? I didn't remember if i tested them or the previous values. Dampers and other settings at defaulf?

Civic
25-09-2017, 05:10
"Flavour = Informative.
Gain = 100 but reduce in cars that experience clipping or are clunky through the dead zone at low speeds. More on this further down after the second quote.
Volume = 38 Starting point but tweak to personal taste.
Tone = 38 On my wheel this is my max setting before FFB starts to adversely effect the handling of the car. Reduce this setting if you want more rear end awareness.
FX = 45. 50 is the max setting I will run. It is a compromise as this setting does dampen other settings. 20 is the minimum I would run but you lose a lot of detail."

Are still these the newest settings? I didn't remember if i tested them or the previous values. Dampers and other settings at defaulf?

The settings below work on my wheel for me and my taste. They are sometimes too strong in some cars but I'm at the point where I don't want to tweak the FFB constantly so I'm just driving now.

Gain =100. You might want to reduce gain if some cars feel clunky but others are good.
Volume = 38. You may want to adjust Volume slightly to either reduce clunk or increase force depending on your wheel.
Tone = 37. Reducing Tone as far as 20 or anywhere in between might give you a better perception of details and the cars behaviour but make FFB weaker.
FX = 45. This is another setting that you might want to reduce to as far as 20 to improve perception of details and the behaviour of the car but it comes at the cost of bumps and road feel. 40 is a good compromise as I find it doesn't give up too much FX.

This is what I'm currently running as it feels a little better to me and doesn't give up too much to the earlier more informative setting. I went down 1 click with tone from the setting you quoted because I think it feels better with my wheel.

No setting works well with high downforce cars. If you primarily drive high downforce cars RAW might work better for you but you'll need to experiment with settings and I advise adjusting Volume up to 50 as a starting point with RAW. I still prefer my settings above with high downforce cars and they are now my one size fits all compromise settings for the broken FFB we have.

At this point I am pretty sure that the bug in the FFB is mostly contributed to by poor settings which we can't change. I'm sure there is more than one issue but for some reason vertical load has too much effect on FFB force and seems to be a significant contributing factor. Perhaps they were trying to give us some feeling of the front unloading but it is seriously exaggerated and causes the FFB to be broken with downforce.

That said it still does not explain why all cars have very weak FFB when you are going slow.

Martinbooker
25-09-2017, 07:29
"That said it still does not explain why all cars have very weak FFB when you are going slow."

Would this not be down to downforce coming off at low speed though? You've mentioned a few times that the FFB force seems to increase with speed but, to my novice understanding, that would appear natural especially with high downforce cars?

Ciccina2016
25-09-2017, 07:47
Guys, I believe this therad is very useful, I believe anyone is trying to tweak the settings to get the most from the G29,however has anyone raised a bug with Slightly MAD studios on the FFB with G29?

The fact we are trying to workround the issue is a synthom this is a bug, isn't it?

So, has anyone raised it ? If no, do we know how to raise it?

Cheers

sirio994
25-09-2017, 07:50
"That said it still does not explain why all cars have very weak FFB when you are going slow."

Would this not be down to downforce coming off at low speed though? You've mentioned a few times that the FFB force seems to increase with speed but, to my novice understanding, that would appear natural especially with high downforce cars?

This is true, but it seems like the ffb is cut by a threshold. The lesser the degree of steering/the speed the lesser the force feedback but in this case it seems like cut by a threshold...

sirio994
25-09-2017, 07:52
Guys, I believe this therad is very useful, I believe anyone is trying to tweak the settings to get the most from the G29,however has anyone raised a bug with Slightly MAD studios on the FFB with G29?

The fact we are trying to workround the issue is a synthom this is a bug, isn't it?

So, has anyone raised it ? If no, do we know how to raise it?

Cheers

Yes, it is a bug. As i wrote, it's not settings related. Settings can only allow us to survive since we don't know when this is going to be fixed. Devs are in the forum, they have seen the thread (at least people who works for SMS).

I believe this is the biggest thread on PC2. Plus they know the release state of console versions...

Pink_650S
25-09-2017, 07:56
Thanks to Martini and Civic for posting their settings. I was struggling a lot and was super frustrated with the game.
I found that your settings work especially well with Touring and GT Cars. I've yet to figure out a way to make the IndyCars work.

Thanks again, guys :)

hkraft300
25-09-2017, 08:14
I found that your settings work especially well with Touring and GT Cars. I've yet to figure out a way to make the IndyCars work.

Thanks again, guys :)

Try the same settings but Gain -10 to avoid clipping, see how that plays?
That's what I've done for GT1 and LMP2 cars to get more high load feel. Otherwise I lose all feedback in high speed corners in the clip zone.

Pink_650S
25-09-2017, 08:17
Try the same settings but Gain -10 to avoid clipping, see how that plays?
That's what I've done for GT1 and LMP2 cars to get more high load feel. Otherwise I lose all feedback in high speed corners in the clip zone.

Yea, l'll mess with Gain here and there. I just wish you didnt have to go through the slow menus everytime you want to make a subtle change.

hkraft300
25-09-2017, 08:22
Yea, l'll mess with Gain here and there. I just wish you didnt have to go through the slow menus everytime you want to make a subtle change.

Better than PC1 having to quit and reload :rolleyes:
But yes, the menus are really slow.

Martinbooker
25-09-2017, 08:34
Yea, l'll mess with Gain here and there. I just wish you didnt have to go through the slow menus everytime you want to make a subtle change.

You can map FFB slider settings to buttons so you can adjust them dynamically while on track rather than going back through the menus.
Unfortunately this doesn't give any on-screen indication of what the new values are as you're changing them

Pink_650S
25-09-2017, 08:43
You can map FFB slider settings to buttons so you can adjust them dynamically while on track rather than going back through the menus.
Unfortunately this doesn't give any on-screen indication of what the new values are as you're changing them

You mentioned one issue with this. Then there's the issue that l've already struggled with mapping all the important buttons to the wheel. Unfortunately this is not an option for me as it stands. I'd much rather make space so l can look to the left and right. :(

Jack Spade
25-09-2017, 08:57
Try the same settings but Gain -10 to avoid clipping, see how that plays?
That's what I've done for GT1 and LMP2 cars to get more high load feel. Otherwise I lose all feedback in high speed corners in the clip zone.

The FFB histogram shows you the real FFB output, with Volume you can reduce it to avoid clipping. Gain even at zero will show you no difference on the FFB histogram but on the monitor.
In this game the FFB monitor is post Gain, so only Gain at 100 shows a comparable signal on the monitor and histogram.

Civic
25-09-2017, 09:02
"That said it still does not explain why all cars have very weak FFB when you are going slow."

Would this not be down to downforce coming off at low speed though? You've mentioned a few times that the FFB force seems to increase with speed but, to my novice understanding, that would appear natural especially with high downforce cars?

You have misunderstood what I tried to say. All cars including cars with no downforce have weak FFB when they are going slow. Any setting of FFB that doesn't result in clipping with the G29 results in almost non existent FFB at slow speeds in any car. So what I am saying is a vertical load bug doesn't explain why cars that have no downforce or might even experience lift at speed have comparitively no FFB at speeds up to above 100km/hr.

Ciccina2016
25-09-2017, 09:45
Yes, it is a bug. As i wrote, it's not settings related. Settings can only allow us to survive since we don't know when this is going to be fixed. Devs are in the forum, they have seen the thread (at least people who works for SMS).

I believe this is the biggest thread on PC2. Plus they know the release state of console versions...

Well, I don't think we can assume this will be fixed based on the number of comments we raise into this thread.

Is there any official support case website where we can raise the issue?

Civic
25-09-2017, 11:09
Two posts above you Jack Spade posted. I'm just guessing here but I'm assuming if he posted here it is an indication that either the developers are already aware of this thread or will be.

That said I wasn't a fan of his settings files for PC1 and I only used the FCM app to help me find linear settings for my G29. The way he dials in FFB is not to my taste and seeing him post here instead of a Dev does make me a little afraid the settings we end up with might also not be to my taste.

My hope is that he has read enough to at least understand what I hope for in an informative setting and to be honest I'll be happy with the FFB if it doesn't have the speed bug and as long as there is a more consistent FFB that allows me to get a similar feeling to what I am currently getting with my G29 in the DBR1/300 and a few other low downforce cars with my settings of Informative, Gain 100, Volume 38, Tone 37 and FX 45.

If I get slightly improved from that in every car without the speed issues I'll be very happy with the FFB and I'm sure a lot of other people will be as well. Well at least us G29 users will be happy until we upgrade our wheels... eeep.

DaveDemonDriver
25-09-2017, 11:24
Hey all. Been watching this thread.

Ffb is definitely 100% bugged as is steering itself. Check out this chain of events:-

Trying the Ginetta G55 GT4 a car I had raced for hours in pc1. After playing around with the light steering with huge deadzones, and getting times of around 2:14 it seemed to go down a black hole of instability where I couldn't even walk round a corner without it spinning. I'm talking a full gear lower than I was taking corners a few minutes before. If I could get round a lap my time was closer to 3 minutes! It was like I was missing a rear wheel. Restarted the session and it was the same. Went back to default setup and still the same. Completely unplayable. It was odd too. Not like my steering input was too much or too little. It was like the car was suddenly on ice or was a car weighing 5 times as much.

So somewhat annoyed at this I was in the process of making a video of PC1 no assists with the G55 v's PC2 G55 no assists and the problems I had getting it round a lap... *and having tried PC1 first, PC2 is now ok!* The steering was heavy, FFB was working, the car was driveable! I even set a record lap time on the TT!

Very bizarre but obviously bugged. Pc1 must be sending correct reset data or even different data entirely to the wheel that pc2 doesn't. The issue we are having is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with ffb settings and wheel config.

I only wished I was recording the whole sequence of events.

DeviousDoley
25-09-2017, 11:24
m running a new t300rs and find the feedback weak on pj2, as soon as the tyres warm up it goes to light and lacks feel and feedback can’t even feel kerbs, currently on informative and default. When tyres are cold it’s fine bit heavy but add temperature and it’s extremely light, you can one hand most of the cars and the Indy car tyres must be filled with helium, disappointment so far with this game. Pj1 felt fine with this wheel.

davidt33
25-09-2017, 12:31
Hi Civic. Many thanks to your contributions for Force Feedback settings. It's been a Godsend because I'd also been having some problems out of the box. You've become my go-to man for settings as I also have the G29 wheel. You mentioned earlier "not to adjust Dampening or Steering Sensitivity as suggested in video earlier" (which is under the "Configuration" section). Thing is I may have adjusted one or more of them before seeing your post/s and can't remember what default values they were at. I would greatly appreciate if you would include both "Configuration" and "Force Feedback" settings you currently use in one post for easy reference. Thanks in advance.

Jack Spade
25-09-2017, 12:54
Two posts above you Jack Spade posted. I'm just guessing here but I'm assuming if he posted here it is an indication that either the developers are already aware of this thread or will be.

That said I wasn't a fan of his settings files for PC1 and I only used the FCM app to help me find linear settings for my G29. The way he dials in FFB is not to my taste and seeing him post here instead of a Dev does make me a little afraid the settings we end up with might also not be to my taste.

My hope is that he has read enough to at least understand what I hope for in an informative setting and to be honest I'll be happy with the FFB if it doesn't have the speed bug and as long as there is a more consistent FFB that allows me to get a similar feeling to what I am currently getting with my G29 in the DBR1/300 and a few other low downforce cars with my settings of Informative, Gain 100, Volume 38, Tone 37 and FX 45.

If I get slightly improved from that in every car without the speed issues I'll be very happy with the FFB and I'm sure a lot of other people will be as well. Well at least us G29 users will be happy until we upgrade our wheels... eeep.

I posted here to clarify something about the FFB system which hopefully prevents some of you drawing wrong conclusions. No reason to be afraid custom stuff
doesnīt work on consoles.

RacedriverTim
25-09-2017, 13:02
Cheers, I already found it. Of course I couldn't see it before, it was right at the top and I subconsciously ignored it because it isn't related to FFB, SMH. I was hoping there was some type of minimum force setting we had control over but there isn't. Deadzone is a different thing, it is the amount you can move an input before it registers movement in the game.

The clunky movement of a Logitech wheel in and out of the deadzone is related to FFB and directly related to minimum force. Logitech wheels require a minimum force of approximately 12%-15% to move. Any force sent to your wheel is between 0-1, 0 being no force and 1 being max force. Due to the design a Logitech wheel does not move at all when a small force is applied. So if your minimum force required is 12% what this means is your wheel will not move until the input it receives is above 0.12. It isn't constant and minimum force required does fluctuate. It isn't that your wheel isn't trying to move, the problem is due to internal resistance the wheel simply will not move until the force is strong enough to overcome internal resistance and that is why it can fluctuate.

Logitech wheels also seem to have a hardware FFB deadzone for some reason and this is not related to the deadzone setting but I did momentarily confuse it in my head when I read it earlier and that is why I asked the question. I guess part of me really wants us to have a minimum force setting independent of The Volume setting as we should and I was dreaming that perhaps I missed such a setting. No joy.

I think the deadzone of the G29 is clear to everyone here. It wasn't only 12-15% - it was more like 30%...

Jack Spade... Civic does a great job, I'm sorry but I'm not getting smarter through your post #86. Little bit redundant imo.

Civic
25-09-2017, 14:53
Hi Civic. Many thanks to your contributions for Force Feedback settings. It's been a Godsend because I'd also been having some problems out of the box. You've become my go-to man for settings as I also have the G29 wheel. You mentioned earlier "not to adjust Dampening or Steering Sensitivity as suggested in video earlier" (which is under the "Configuration" section). Thing is I may have adjusted one or more of them before seeing your post/s and can't remember what default values they were at. I would greatly appreciate if you would include both "Configuration" and "Force Feedback" settings you currently use in one post for easy reference. Thanks in advance.

Steering sensitivity should be 50. Any controller sensitivity setting will be linear or 1:1 at 50, a higher number will cause the in game input to be initially greater than your controller input and under 50 does the opposite where you controller input is initially less than your input. Sensitivity adjusts the response curve up or down.

Set Dampening to zero.

Set steering deadzone to zero.

But while you are on that page I'll tell you about sensitivity settings that might help. If you lower the number for brake sensitivity it reduces the brake force curve, that means you can push it more without lockups. As a G29 user this can be very handy, you can set up your brake force curve to match the feeling of the G29 pedal so that when you hit the rubber you are near the ideal braking point, this allows you to easily hit your ideal brake pressure every time.

The clutch sensitivity can also be handy if you want you clutch to engage without needing to push your pedal all the way in. If you combine that with short calibrating your clutch pedal it makes quick shifting much easier and more consistent.

sirio994
25-09-2017, 15:08
Steering sensitivity should be 50. Any controller sensitivity setting will be linear or 1:1 at 50, a higher number will cause the in game input to be initially greater than your controller input and under 50 does the opposite where you controller input is initially less than your input. Sensitivity adjusts the response curve up or down.

Set Dampening to zero.

Set steering deadzone to zero.

But while you are on that page I'll tell you about sensitivity settings that might help. If you lower the number for brake sensitivity it reduces the brake force curve, that means you can push it more without lockups. As a G29 user this can be very handy, you can set up your brake force curve to match the feeling of the G29 pedal so that when you hit the rubber you are near the ideal braking point, this allows you to easily hit your ideal brake pressure every time.

The clutch sensitivity can also be handy if you want you clutch to engage without needing to push your pedal all the way in. If you combine that with short calibrating your clutch pedal it makes quick shifting much easier and more consistent.

Exacly, everything should be at 0 deadzone and 50 sensitivity to keep the 1:1 ratio with the game and the car you're driving. Then you can adjust things to your preferences. I never touch settings in general.

Different games have different calibrations but i prefer to adjust my self to the game more than the opposite.

Sensitivity is there for perfonal preferences, pedal deadzones are there to fix issues (spikes, unwanted imputs).

Pedals dedazones are also usefull if you play with shoes and you want to keep your foot on the pedal without unwanted imputs)

SnowLeopard
25-09-2017, 17:12
Guys, I believe this therad is very useful, I believe anyone is trying to tweak the settings to get the most from the G29,however has anyone raised a bug with Slightly MAD studios on the FFB with G29?
The fact we are trying to workround the issue is a synthom this is a bug, isn't it?
So, has anyone raised it ? If no, do we know how to raise it?

I've yet to find a "submit bug report" button or link. It appears you report bugs by posting in these forums.

The are two types of officials on these forums, SMS and Moderators. By clicking on the SMS link (above private messages at top of screen), I found posts acknowledging FFB issues (http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?52204-Ian-Bell-statement-re-G920-FFB-issue&p=1364550&viewfull=1#post1364550) (in the xbox section for g920) among others.
It would be nice if "officials" were easier to recognize -- put a big fat icon next to their names or prefix all their names with "SMS - ".
Also, it would be nice to have official acknowledgement of specific issues so we can stop struggling hopelessly trying to fix things through settings when certain settings are currently broken in some way.

Shogun613
25-09-2017, 17:38
Quick question for my fellow G29 users who are having issues:
Are you using manual pit control?
I'm asking because a friend of mine who doesn't is also having issues (he describes it as vibration), and as I use manual pit control, I don't. My question is could there be something bugged with manual takeovers after exiting the pits and/or rolling starts?

RacedriverTim
25-09-2017, 18:27
Quick question for my fellow G29 users who are having issues:
Are you using manual pit control?
I'm asking because a friend of mine who doesn't is also having issues (he describes it as vibration), and as I use manual pit control, I don't. My question is could there be something bugged with manual takeovers after exiting the pits and/or rolling starts?

I used manual pit control and despite had the problem. Maybe for all those who the problem still occurs, this could be a suggestion to try indeed.

VVVKahless
25-09-2017, 19:23
Steering deadzone won't help with ffb deadzone though. I'm loving this thread. It gives more than enough informations to the devs.

Now i would be very courious to test the game on PC.

Did anyone test it? It seems like a platform related issue.

I tried the steering deadzone at zero yesterday, it didn't change anything. Basic wheel settings are ok on default (except for the brake sensitivity). The G29 is perfect with it at 50 (1:1 ratio). The brake pedal is already stiff by its own...

I have been having a very similar issue on PC. G25 wheel is like a wet noodle. Can't seem to find any setting that improve it more than just a little. Wheel still works find in PC1 but PC2 it feels almost as if the power isn't even plugged in.

sirio994
25-09-2017, 19:24
I play with everything on manual. I don't understand how people doesn't experience it. Maybe didn't try enough cars or cars with wider speed gaps.

Just to check...which is your PS4?

I'm on Pro...i ask because to me it's impossibile having a ffb that works perfectly for some and doesn't for others...

Civic
25-09-2017, 20:42
I'm currently on Manual pit control but I've tried all configs. I haven't seen any odd behaviour that I'd attribute to this setting.

Hot Tip. Set pit control to manual and assign a button to pit speed limiter to be able to speed out of the pits in private testing. Slowly driving out of the pits is one of the most tedious parts of the game and there is no penalty for speeding in the pits in private practice.

ShneebnaMRR108
25-09-2017, 21:14
Thanks Civic for all your investigations! That was a long 11 pages for sure, but worth it. I spent a while getting it even working, and then after it felt pretty good (given it's bugged) I also noticed as I dive into a speed corner the clipping bar comes on, so yes it appears that speed and force are effecting the curve. Not going to really being overly concerned about it because I should be looking at the track, not that minuscule little graph. And it's missing the waveform that we all came to love in pC2. Kind of like that way better since it was real time reactive. WMD should have just let us test the game! (like we are doing right now for free.)
Waiting for the patch now....... Can't start league racing until it is fixed. Thanks again to everyone who has contributed to this thread!!

SnowLeopard
25-09-2017, 21:33
On the topic of telemetry graphs, it is nearly impossible to watch them and drive at the same time, considering any clipping will occur when hitting the curbs hard in tough corners.
Luckily, our consoles can easily record gameplay video which is what I've been doing -- record one or two laps than watch the video to look for clipping. TBH, I didn't realize how much clipping I was getting before doing this. Seems setting anything much over 50 will give clipping at some point.
Also, I cannot find it now, but I read a reply from SMS official that said the Gain is applied after the graphs are rendered (obviously paraphrased).

sirio994
25-09-2017, 21:38
Hope to see the patch as soon as possibile. The good thing is that i'm having other problems with the game (mainly about the AI balance and aggressiveness). I'm sure the first patch will fix both main problems (FFB and AI).

For those who asked, Devs are monitoring the forum. Yesterday, o the day before, Ian Bell himself answered to a thread. Both moderators and devs are active. It's not a good sign they answered to many questions and bugs except this...maybe cause they are already working on it...

Martini Da Gasalini
25-09-2017, 22:33
Hope to see the patch as soon as possibile. The good thing is that i'm having other problems with the game (mainly about the AI balance and aggressiveness). I'm sure the first patch will fix both main problems (FFB and AI).

For those who asked, Devs are monitoring the forum. Yesterday, o the day before, Ian Bell himself answered to a thread. Both moderators and devs are active. It's not a good sign they answered to many questions and bugs except this...maybe cause they are already working on it...
Actually it is good sign that Ian and the devs are active on here it means they're about their game and truely care about their product.

Madwak55
25-09-2017, 23:01
I don't know if this will work for you G29 users but it might be worth a try? I'm using a Fanatec wheel and was suffering the same huge dead zone on the steering so I turned the steering sensitivity up to 95 and played with it like that for a bit and it totally transformed the feel and the dead zone disappeared, the strange thing is that when I set the sensitivity back to 50 so I could check how bad it used to feel the deadzone didn't come back and still hasn't come back - weird?

ShneebnaMRR108
25-09-2017, 23:25
..... old info not valid anymore

Civic
26-09-2017, 01:27
The FFB histogram shows you the real FFB output, with Volume you can reduce it to avoid clipping. Gain even at zero will show you no difference on the FFB histogram but on the monitor.
In this game the FFB monitor is post Gain, so only Gain at 100 shows a comparable signal on the monitor and histogram.

I've just tested this and although I don't pay attention to the histogram and can't speak to it, Gain does effect the readings on the waveform. If you reduce Gain to zero the waveform will flatline. So Gain can be used as an effective method to reduce or dial out clipping which can be monitored on the waveform on the PS4. This means a one size fits all approach can be applied to all other settings with only Gain required to be adjusted by car.

Civic
26-09-2017, 03:10
I've found my final settings. These are now my universal settings that I will no longer tweak until either an update comes to fix the FFB or I come across a car that really doesn't work but these settings seem to be working for every car I try.

Informative
Gain 97
Volume 37
Tone 35
FX 43
Menu Irrelevant but I run mine at 0.25

Steering Deadzone 0
Dampening 0
Sensitivity 50 DON'T CHANGE THIS

Keep in mind no setting will fix the speed vertical load FFB bug, only an update will fix that. But these settings seem to minimise the effect without the need for constant tweaking.

I'd appreciate if people test these setting to give me feedback especially if you find a car/track/conditions combo that doesn't work well with these setting.

davidt33
26-09-2017, 03:19
I've found my final settings. These are now my universal settings that I will no longer tweak until either an update comes to fix the FFB or I come across a car that really doesn't work but these settings seem to be working for every car I try.

Informative
Gain 97
Volume 37
Tone 35
FX 43
Menu Irrelevant but I run mine at 0.25

Steering Deadzone 0
Dampening 0
Sensitivity 50 DON'T CHANGE THIS

Keep in mind no setting will fix the speed vertical load FFB bug, only an update will fix that. But these settings seem to minimise the effect without the need for constant tweaking.

I'd appreciate if people test these setting to give me feedback especially if you find a car/track/conditions combo that doesn't work well with these setting.

Thanks for the update Civic. I'll note and recheck mine tomorrow when I fire up the console again. Cheers.

Shogun613
26-09-2017, 04:26
I play with everything on manual. I don't understand how people doesn't experience it. Maybe didn't try enough cars or cars with wider speed gaps.

Just to check...which is your PS4?

I'm on Pro...i ask because to me it's impossibile having a ffb that works perfectly for some and doesn't for others...
I play on a standard PS4. This whole thing has me scratching my head because usually if there's a problem with a certain game and peripheral combination, it's across the board.
But when you actually think about it, it's pretty difficult to establish a baseline with everyone because there are so many variables at play here:
1. Console variation (standard or pro)
2. Game format (disk or download)
3. Full installation vs play while installing
4. Was calibration done prior to hitting the track

I think for those having problems, those things need to be taken into consideration, just as a way of further isolating the cause.

Shogun613
26-09-2017, 04:33
On a side note, the cars I've tested so far include every GT3 and GTE car, the Caterham SP300R, the Formula X, the Ferrari F50, the Audi R18 eTron Quattro, the AMG C63, and the Maclaren 720s. So far, My ffb is good with all of those. My only complaint is that some circuits feel too smooth. Maybe in reality the tarmac really is that well maintained at those places.

Martinbooker
26-09-2017, 07:51
On a side note, the cars I've tested so far include every GT3 and GTE car, the Caterham SP300R, the Formula X, the Ferrari F50, the Audi R18 eTron Quattro, the AMG C63, and the Maclaren 720s. So far, My ffb is good with all of those. My only complaint is that some circuits feel too smooth. Maybe in reality the tarmac really is that well maintained at those places.

How did you find the F50? It's always been my favourite pin up car so I was a happy boy when I saw it had made the cut in the new game when they acquired the Ferrari license but it felt a little "on rails" for my taste.

Jack Spade
26-09-2017, 08:16
I've just tested this and although I don't pay attention to the histogram and can't speak to it, Gain does effect the readings on the waveform. If you reduce Gain to zero the waveform will flatline. So Gain can be used as an effective method to reduce or dial out clipping which can be monitored on the waveform on the PS4. This means a one size fits all approach can be applied to all other settings with only Gain required to be adjusted by car.

You donīt seem to understand. In this game the waveform monitor is NOT the true FFB level monitor anymore, it was in PC1. The calculated output now is shown in the histogram.
Again, this is because that the waveform monitor now is post Gain, Gain as such does not affect the FFB calculation, itīs a substitute for the missing wheel driver on consoles and its
only there because of consoles, AJ himself claimed it to redundant on PC. Even if this is at zero the calculated FFB could clip like hell.

Shogun613
26-09-2017, 09:37
How did you find the F50? It's always been my favourite pin up car so I was a happy boy when I saw it had made the cut in the new game when they acquired the Ferrari license but it felt a little "on rails" for my taste.
It's definitely not as lively as I expected it to be once the tires were nice and warmed up. It's easier to throw around than I expected. It does like to push a little wide in the high speed turns.

Civic
26-09-2017, 09:58
You donīt seem to understand. In this game the waveform monitor is NOT the true FFB level monitor anymore, it was in PC1. The calculated output now is shown in the histogram.
Again, this is because that the waveform monitor now is post Gain, Gain as such does not affect the FFB calculation, itīs a substitute for the missing wheel driver on consoles and its
only there because of consoles, AJ himself claimed it to redundant on PC. Even if this is at zero the calculated FFB could clip like hell.

You're right I really don't understand how this statement can be accurate if simply reducing gain and nothing else reduces the waveform and removes clipping indicated by the waveform. I also don't understand how this is the case when the waveform accurately matches what I am feeling as a graphical representation.

Remember we are discussing PS4 here not PC.

Jack Spade
26-09-2017, 13:19
You're right I really don't understand how this statement can be accurate if simply reducing gain and nothing else reduces the waveform and removes clipping indicated by the waveform. I also don't understand how this is the case when the waveform accurately matches what I am feeling as a graphical representation.

Remember we are discussing PS4 here not PC.

Last try
There may be differences on PC/Consoles, this part of the game structure is basically identical.
Signal flow simplified:
car physics > FFB department > Volume, Tone, FX > FFB histogram levels > Gain > waveform monitor > output to wheel

Everything blue calculates the FFB signal, following stuff doesnīt, could lead to this extreme --- Volume 100 + Gain 0 = Massive calculated clipping histogram and no FFB signal on the wheel and waveform monitor.

Iīve been thru the same issue and discussions in PC1 over and over, back in the day it was the so called FFB Master now itīs Gain. To make it clear, itīs physically impossible to avoid clipping with Gain.
In PC1 itīs Tire Force here in PC2 itīs Volume to adjust the calculated FFB level on Consoles and PC.

RacedriverTim
26-09-2017, 13:56
I don't think how the FFB is depicted will help anyone to understand how to clearly set up your FFB to git a gud feeling. Someone on the official part of the game should say either there is a problem with the FFB on the PS4 (maybe XBOX as well) or they should say you have to run settings like Civic already said... For me it's fixed. Danke...

SnowLeopard
26-09-2017, 16:00
Last try
There may be differences on PC/Consoles, this part of the game structure is basically identical.

This discussion wouldn't be happening if it were identical! Maybe it's supposed to be identical, but it is NOT right now (PC vs PS4 thread (http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?52726-PS4-VS-PC-version)).

I've concluded it is fruitless to attempt to adjust FFB on PS4 until a patch is released. My problem is not that I don't get FFB, it's that it is too weak -- I can drive using only two fingers on each hand.

ShneebnaMRR108
26-09-2017, 18:06
Last try
There may be differences on PC/Consoles, this part of the game structure is basically identical.
Signal flow simplified:
car physics > FFB department > Volume, Tone, FX > FFB histogram levels > Gain > waveform monitor > output to wheel

Everything blue calculates the FFB signal, following stuff doesnīt, could lead to this extreme --- Volume 100 + Gain 0 = Massive calculated clipping histogram and no FFB signal on the wheel and waveform monitor.

Iīve been thru the same issue and discussions in PC1 over and over, back in the day it was the so called FFB Master now itīs Gain. To make it clear, itīs physically impossible to avoid clipping with Gain.
In PC1 itīs Tire Force here in PC2 itīs Volume to adjust the calculated FFB level on Consoles and PC.

Agree with Jack 100% on this. I also think that the pC2 "Gain" is in fact the same as pC1 Master, and pC2 "Volume is in fact the same as pC1 Tyre Force. I only base my opinion on the way it operates and feels. Until the patch is out I can live with a little wobble (although it is annoying) Just for my two cents, here's my G920 final set for now.
G920 (on most cars)
INF
84~87
33~39
35~37
41~48
0

Indy car
Inf
85
75
35
5
0

Daley87
26-09-2017, 21:02
I've found my final settings. These are now my universal settings that I will no longer tweak until either an update comes to fix the FFB or I come across a car that really doesn't work but these settings seem to be working for every car I try.

Informative
Gain 97
Volume 37
Tone 35
FX 43
Menu Irrelevant but I run mine at 0.25

Steering Deadzone 0
Dampening 0
Sensitivity 50 DON'T CHANGE THIS

Keep in mind no setting will fix the speed vertical load FFB bug, only an update will fix that. But these settings seem to minimise the effect without the need for constant tweaking.

I'd appreciate if people test these setting to give me feedback especially if you find a car/track/conditions combo that doesn't work well with these setting.

Settings feel good mate, cheers for those. One thing I love about PCars 2 FFB is the way the wheel self aligns, makes catching the car miles easier and more realistic.

Civic
26-09-2017, 21:25
Signal flow simplified:
car physics > FFB department > Volume, Tone, FX > FFB histogram levels > Gain > waveform monitor > output to wheel

Hang on I just re read this part. This doesn't contradict what I have been saying, this is effectively what I have been saying. I can't see the problem if this part of your post is correct.

Lastritez
26-09-2017, 21:28
I have to say that while I do love the game , it is seriously floored on PS4 right now.

I stream daily on twitch with my BIG game of 2017 being PC2 and at the minute there are so many issues i encounter daily from the unbelievable lag everyone gets in the lobby when a user connects / disconnects to the cars generally handling like crap. I used a controller from day 1 after having issues with my G29 not connecting and i was impressed with the controller handling since the terrible PC1 with controller. I played the game when i visited i61 in Birmingham at easter at told my viewers how different the game was this year with the controller. Since Saturday my G29 started working but i was appalled by how bad the game feels with a wheel , there seems to be NO WEIGHT at all to the car. I've tweeked the settings here and there and watched all the youtube videos i could find in relation to this problem , all i read or hear about is PC options and tweeks but the console users are left in no mans land. The day one patch for me was just over 10Gb with other viewers saying theirs were more or less than that size which is odd.

The licenses are another issue , there stands a large amount of confusion regarding what the coding is on it as if you get hit by another person you spin out and try and get back on the track safely , does this take points away etc. I understand the letter before the number is your safety rank etc thats fine but people are losing points even if they never caused any issues , so the rewards for "clean" racing are being thrown into doubt.

The online "Leagues" are not around unless i'm mistaken. As a twitch streamer i would love to setup leagues / tournys and atm we dont know where to go and what to do.

If anyone out there has any settings for the Logitech G29 please let me know , cause i'm lost and i really love this game.

If there are any competitive racers out there be sure to stop by the stream , look on twitch for my username. Also check out the community on PS4 "The Racing Line"

Cheers

Martinbooker
26-09-2017, 22:00
If anyone out there has any settings for the Logitech G29 please let me know , cause i'm lost and i really love this game.


reading the rest of the thread first is always a good start ;-)

Civic
26-09-2017, 22:34
My setting have been quoted to posts above yours, try those.

scudfaldon
27-09-2017, 00:00
Even after these configurations, I still don't feel any g29 vibration when I go over the kerbs, etc. My wheel is fine, it works perfect on F1 2017, but I can't get it to vibrate. Is this happening to anyone else??

sirio994
27-09-2017, 01:02
Even after these configurations, I still don't feel any g29 vibration when I go over the kerbs, etc. My wheel is fine, it works perfect on F1 2017, but I can't get it to vibrate. Is this happening to anyone else??

It's happening on PS4. To everyone, in particular with some cars. If you play F12017 i suppose you tested and played with a lot of open wheels/high downforce/high disparity of speeds cars (where the situation is litterally the same with every combination).

Settings can help but can't fix it...

hkraft300
27-09-2017, 01:34
The licenses are another issue , there stands a large amount of confusion regarding what the coding is on it as if you get hit by another person you spin out and try and get back on the track safely , does this take points away etc. I understand the letter before the number is your safety rank etc thats fine but people are losing points even if they never caused any issues , so the rewards for "clean" racing are being thrown into doubt.

The online "Leagues" are not around unless i'm mistaken. As a twitch streamer i would love to setup leagues / tournys and atm we dont know where to go and what to do.



Safety rank is also tied to a performance rank. If you get beaten by someone of lower rank, you lose points. If you beat someone of higher rank, you gain points.

There are leagues around on PS4, but the game is very new.

There are Civic's settings above. Mine are Raw 90 40 50 50. I'm still tweaking mine though.

Civic
27-09-2017, 02:33
Even after these configurations, I still don't feel any g29 vibration when I go over the kerbs, etc. My wheel is fine, it works perfect on F1 2017, but I can't get it to vibrate. Is this happening to anyone else??

Vibration over things like ripple strips is a fake effect that some games include. In a realistic sim you will only sometimes feel that effect depending on the situation, the car, the setup and the FFB settings. There are a number of reasons for this but one of the biggest is the frequency of the physics calculations. Another major factor is FFB represents rotational force not vibrations. The Thrustmaster T-GT will be the first wheel on the market specifically designed to produce vibrations in addition to rotational force as it has a secondary FFB system similar to Simvibe. Unfortunately that vibration feature is exclusive to GT Sport and might never come to other games on the PS4. I imagine someone in PC land will work out how to get it working on PC's though. The big question will be how many people want to pay that much for that wheel considering what else you can buy.

ShneebnaMRR108
27-09-2017, 02:52
.... old info not relevant
Latest set up is:
G920
INF
86
38
35
41

Of course varies a bit per car/track

rizental
27-09-2017, 03:45
thank you ShneebnaMRR108 this thread is helpful a lot, i was strugglin with my g29 too, these settings are matching here

daarsk
28-09-2017, 02:12
The main problem I have is the lack of feel for tyre slip. IMO, in a racing game/sim, understeer should be represented by a wheel going light and oversteer should be represented by a wheel going heavy. So far with many tweaks, I cant get that representation. Full lock in a corner, the wheel has the same weight. The back end steps out, the wheel has the same weight. Unfortunately, I have no idea how to play a guitar, so I have no idea what gain, volume and tone have to do with FFB in a racing game/sim. IMO, the settings should be simple and something like this...

Master weight - scale how heavy you want the wheel to feel over all
Understeer weight - scale how much you want to feel the wheel go light for understeer
Oversteer weight - scale how much you want to feel the wheel go heavy for oversteer
Effects - scale how much you want to feel the effects like bumps, curbs, etc.

Everythings else should work from algorithms from the programming. Car weight and spring stiffness versus weight shifting (under acceleration/braking, over crest, sudden incline, etc)

BTW, I assigned buttons to change the tone and volume. Lets say I set the volume to 0. When I changed it on the fly, I could feel it was making a difference, even though I had no idea what I was changing it to. When I go back to the settings menu, volume was still set to 0?? Who tested this game? Countless bugs that people, including myself, found in only a matter of hours... Makes you wonder...

Civic
28-09-2017, 02:32
I'm feeling like an idiot. I no longer think the system has a bug, I'm pretty sure it just needs to be tweaked.

Informative and RAW actually do work as I'd expect them to on a G29 considering how weak and low res this wheel is. It's just that although I know it should feel like this I have never really felt it like this and I think I know why now.

The problem was when I tried Immersive it felt weird to me, nothing like I expected but today I had another play around with it and realised it doesn't work the same way Informative does.

The sliders on Immersive seem to function more like levels and they like to be set very high. In driving different settings I couldn't pin point one that I liked best but the real problem was trying to go back to my prior preferred settings, I don't like them anymore.

So just try this. And keep in mind this is called Immersive, it feels like an enhanced FFB. Think of this as the type of FFB that some people might find more enjoyable to drive a more consistent as a one size fits all setting. The settings I give you below are not optimal as I've only just started to play around with them and they will clip at times because they are pretty loud but the feeling seemed more consistent from car to car as I would expect for this kind of approach. Keep in mind the nature of a G29 meeans that for an Immersive approach there will be some level of detail lost but not nearly as much as I expected and I had no trouble driving with this.

Immersive
Gain 100
Volume 99
Tone 40 - 60 I think this one is the one I just couldn't really find a right setting for but if you just put it somewhere in that range for me I wouldn't be able to tell you if it needs to go higher or lower.
FX 79-80 Both of these settings are pretty intense but that one click makes a difference. Keep in mind the goal is Immersive and I think this feels kind of fun with all the rattling around it does. You'll need to lower this if you want it to be smoother and not take over but for now I'm having too much fun and I'm a bit like a kid who just got a new amp and I'm turning that thing up. Perhaps I'll get more conservative later.

So I'm sharing these now just so people can experiment and maybe dial them in a bit better and see if they like this kind of FFB approach. This is the more gamey setting for those guys who think the other settings are too lifeless and maybe don't want to tweak all the time. It's possible that these settings need to be turned down a little in volume and/or gain just to avoid clipping in certain cars but these are still pretty weak at times in certain cars so it's a compromise like everything I've tried.

So what's wrong with the force feedback? This is just a guess but based on everything I've tried now and the successes I have had with each flavour I think the low speed code needs tweaking. It transitions very early. If you are still, there is tyre weight but almost as soon as you start to move it gets very light. With the Immersive flavour with Volume cranked it quickly builds weight and feels nice. The actual FFB might need some tweaking by Devs to avoid some of the odd feelings but it's actually not that bad. the problem is at some point the weak forces are represented as weak and this transition happens quickly but then gets heavy with the low speed code. I think this transition could be better as right now it starts off feeling heavy and goes through a period of feeling too light before feeling heavy again.

I think for the average person with a G29 who might not want to tweak all the time some kind of optimised variant of this flavour would be the best flavour. I'm convinced that the other flavours function correctly and it should be normal to see the kind of lifeless feedback we are getting with those that ranges from heavy in high loads to almost non existent during a lot of other driving. This should be expected when trying to squeeze so much into such a small area in a more linear way with such a low resolution. I can assume Thrustmaster T300/TX wheels will feel a little better due to having more range available combined with a higher resolution and Fanatec wheels being potentially on par with or better than the higher strength Thrustmasters wheels.

i doubt anyone wants the read but if you want some theory behind why I believe this stuff I have already posted some things which would help explain a lot of it but I can try and do it a little better here if required.

So if anyone is interested please try those settings and see if you can use them or tweak them and if you don't like them tell me what it is and if you do like them tweaked share your Immersive settings so others can try. Chances are I'll tweak as I'm driving and if I settle on something I'll share. At this point I'm more looking to see if this is appealing to anyone and get an idea of how people might change it. I don't normal drive settings like this but I'm having some fun and want to see where it goes. And I'd like to see just how good we can tweak each flavour with our wheels with the game settings we have.

Keep in mind the track you are testing. If your tyres are cold the FFB tends to feel a little weaker as some kind of indication of grip.

Civic
28-09-2017, 02:42
The main problem I have is the lack of feel for tyre slip. IMO, in a racing game/sim, understeer should be represented by a wheel going light and oversteer should be represented by a wheel going heavy. So far with many tweaks, I cant get that representation. Full lock in a corner, the wheel has the same weight. The back end steps out, the wheel has the same weight. Unfortunately, I have no idea how to play a guitar, so I have no idea what gain, volume and tone have to do with FFB in a racing game/sim. IMO, the settings should be simple and something like this...

Master weight - scale how heavy you want the wheel to feel over all
Understeer weight - scale how much you want to feel the wheel go light for understeer
Oversteer weight - scale how much you want to feel the wheel go heavy for oversteer
Effects - scale how much you want to feel the effects like bumps, curbs, etc.

Everythings else should work from algorithms from the programming. Car weight and spring stiffness versus weight shifting (under acceleration/braking, over crest, sudden incline, etc)

BTW, I assigned buttons to change the tone and volume. Lets say I set the volume to 0. When I changed it on the fly, I could feel it was making a difference, even though I had no idea what I was changing it to. When I go back to the settings menu, volume was still set to 0?? Who tested this game? Countless bugs that people, including myself, found in only a matter of hours... Makes you wonder...

The effect you are talking about is a canned effect some sims have included and is something the user can blend in. When AC talked about these effects they were sure to know these are fake FFB effects and they do not think they are required but have included them to enhance the experience for those who like them.

The sense of grip loss works differently in PC2 but I think when you find a combination of settings that work for you the way this is translated comes across as more natural and realistic. In real life the feeling of loss of grip is not translated through the wheel the way you describe and is mostly a seat of the pants feeling in combination with other information. In a sim we have had to rely on visual, audio and FFB for all our information so the canned effect was a substitute for missing information vs real life such as seat of pants feel.

Try the Immersive settings above. You get some of that feeling translated in those settings but your awareness of loss of grip will still be less than the weaker more linear variants using other flavours.

daarsk
28-09-2017, 03:04
Thanks Civic. I'll keep playing around with it using some of your suggestions. I agree with you that this is different and more than likely just something we have to get used to. We must remember that this is a game and not real life, so unfortunately, sitting on a static chair is not going to give us any sop feeling. As you say, we rely on visual, audio and ffb.

There was one other thing that irritates me. The bounce of the wheel when driving straight. If I lighten my grip, the wheel bounces left to right. Let it keep going and eventually the car will spin. I wish that wouldn't happen.

Civic
28-09-2017, 04:12
With these recent settings the wheel has a life of it's own which is mostly contributed to by the FX setting. The previous settings I have mentioned are tame but also feel dead in comparison. I like to think of this as the fun setting. I imagine it won't be to everyone's taste.

I normally don't like settings like this and it does things that feel a little strange but I think it shows the potential of the immersive flavour that might just need some minor tweaking by SMS to be very good.

Those strong FX settings feel too strong especially in the way the car can behave but at the same time when you turn them down it kind of feels like something is missing.

sirio994
02-10-2017, 07:57
Come on SMS...we need this patch!

The real ffb (the one you can feel at its full potential) is great. It's crazy what G29 users have to go through on consoles...

hkraft300
02-10-2017, 12:45
Come on SMS...we need this patch!

The real ffb (the one you can feel at its full potential) is great. It's crazy what G29 users have to go through on consoles...

What do G29 users have to go through on consoles?

Ciccina2016
02-10-2017, 14:06
The effect you are talking about is a canned effect some sims have included and is something the user can blend in. When AC talked about these effects they were sure to know these are fake FFB effects and they do not think they are required but have included them to enhance the experience for those who like them.



Hi Civic

I believe this is the key-point!
Can you post here the article which states AC introduced these fake effects to enhance the gaming experience?

sirio994
02-10-2017, 14:55
What do G29 users have to go through on consoles?

The "greatest" ffb ever

sirio994
02-10-2017, 14:59
Can't understand why people repeat everything is fine when the devs clearly told the g29 ffb on consoles is bugged...

Ciccina2016
02-10-2017, 15:01
Can't understand why people repeat everything isiwhen fine when the devs clearly told the g29 ffb on consoles is bugged...

Hi Sirio

can you show me the post?
This would be a great news

sirio994
02-10-2017, 15:04
http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?51921-Any-word-from-developers-Slightly-Mad-about-a-patch&p=1371524#post1371524

hkraft300
02-10-2017, 15:29
Can't understand why people repeat everything is fine when the devs clearly told the g29 ffb on consoles is bugged...

There's an issue with the G920 on XB1 with ffb missing on the left side of the wheel
There's also an issue with the Logitech gaming software conflicting in windows.

What's the problem of G29 on PS4?


http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?51921-Any-word-from-developers-Slightly-Mad-about-a-patch&p=1371524#post1371524


Mate that's Konan, the forum mod. He's not SMS.
Where's the acknowledgement by SMS (Blue name) of a G29 bug on PS4?

Ciccina2016
02-10-2017, 15:30
There's an issue with the G920 on XB1 with ffb missing on the left side of the wheel
There's also an issue with the Logitech gaming software conflicting in windows.

What's the problem of G29 on PS4?




Mate that's Konan, the forum mod. He's not SMS.
Where's the acknowledgement by SMS (Blue name) of a G29 bug on PS4?

Exactly.

legacy-8
02-10-2017, 16:24
My G29 settings.

Yes, I know the FFB needs attention on this game, but I found these to be the best fit settings for most cars. The FFB get's stronger with more grip with these settings which is of course obvious so give it a few laps. Even works pretty well with rally cross! No clipping too!!

It's no where near as intense or heavy as I had PC1 set up, but I am enjoying the game with these settings for now

Flavour - Informative
Gain - 92
Volume - 37
Tone - 35
FX - 46
Menu Spring Strength - 0.30

Deadzone - 0.00
Steering Sensitivity - 50

SnowLeopard
02-10-2017, 17:43
There's an issue with the G920 on XB1 with ffb missing on the left side of the wheel
There's also an issue with the Logitech gaming software conflicting in windows.

What's the problem of G29 on PS4?




Mate that's Konan, the forum mod. He's not SMS.
Where's the acknowledgement by SMS (Blue name) of a G29 bug on PS4?

Whether there is or is not a problem with G29 on PS4, why can't someone OFFICIAL (like IAN BELL) say so loud and clear?
As far as I can tell, no one from SMS has even played their game on PS4 -- certainly not before it was released! They've made it clear they had nothing to do with testing (using it as an excuse for releasing an incomplete product, saying they were not aware that UDP Telemetry was not included).
Simpler still, just give me a refund!

Gordelion
02-10-2017, 19:19
It's a mixed bag at the moment. Some cars feel great, some are undrivable.

I am not a fan of spending literally hours playing with the settings. I went with the default ones, only adjusted the pedals to my liking and changed the flavor to "raw".

Informative feels too light, and immersive feels way over the top artificial. At this point I understand it's a matter of personal taste - OK;
I do not know if its bugged, but in certain situation I can feel tires slipping and other elements of the car and the road, and sometimes the wheel remains silent when it obviously should not.

I played with the settings for like half an hour, I encountered the same deal like in PC1: if the wheel is really flavorful, you can feel the road/tires etc., it's way too heavy and feels artificial. If I make the wheel lighter, the flavor is gone OR, if not, insane clipping takes place and so on, you all should get the idea.

SO, the default settings WOULD BE an OK compromise for me, but I cannot say that, because it simply DOESN'T work with a number of cars - some are simply unplayable or disguising to drive, and there is no way I will spend my time adjusting the settings each time I pick a different car. It's not a 60EUR experience, it's normally called a beta version.

As with the previous game, I will probably stick to the cars that simply work, but, of course, it ruins the experience immensely. Ruins the career mode and slashes the amount of content available dramatically.

PS I'm on PS4, so I really don't know if tweaking available on PC helps the situation.

hkraft300
02-10-2017, 23:40
Whether there is or is not a problem with G29 on PS4, why can't someone OFFICIAL (like IAN BELL) say so loud and clear?...
Simpler still, just give me a refund!

They don't need to. Ffb and G29 is fine on the PS4.
If you want a refund, take your copy back where you bought it. It's very simple.


It's a mixed bag at the moment. Some cars feel great, some are undrivable.


What exactly do you mean by undriveable?
Which cars?
Can you be more specific?

I've only had to adjust volume initially, but I've come to the settings (in my sig below) and left it there. With the same settings I've driven GT1/3/E, Ginetta Jr, Ferrari 365 Daytona, Ligier Honda, Porsche Ferrari GT1, Bentley Toyota and Ferrari LMP900, R18, Nissan R89 and ZX GTP... they all feel great from Texas to Portimao.

If there are cars undriveable in Raw settings, I'm sure the devs would like to pin-point any problem and fix it. To do that, a bit of direction helps.

So, again: what car, track, settings, setup (default or not), what weather settings, what game mode, how many AI... as much info as possible.

Help them help you. If they find a problem, in sure they'll say it here loud and clear.

sirio994
03-10-2017, 01:30
They don't need to. Ffb and G29 is fine on the PS4.
If you want a refund, take your copy back where you bought it. It's very simple.



What exactly do you mean by undriveable?
Which cars?
Can you be more specific?

I've only had to adjust volume initially, but I've come to the settings (in my sig below) and left it there. With the same settings I've driven GT1/3/E, Ginetta Jr, Ferrari 365 Daytona, Ligier Honda, Porsche Ferrari GT1, Bentley Toyota and Ferrari LMP900, R18, Nissan R89 and ZX GTP... they all feel great from Texas to Portimao.

If there are cars undriveable in Raw settings, I'm sure the devs would like to pin-point any problem and fix it. To do that, a bit of direction helps.

So, again: what car, track, settings, setup (default or not), what weather settings, what game mode, how many AI... as much info as possible.

Help them help you. If they find a problem, in sure they'll say it here loud and clear.

FFB on the G29 is right? That's a pretty strong statement considering the number of cars and conditions.

This thread is full of informations for the devs, detailed reports with track conditions and setups. I'm sure they saw it.

For those who say the ffb is right i suggest (as i already did) to test a Formula A or an Indy Car around Monza or Spa...

FFB is not broken and it's not right. The thread is.full of informations. There is a trend behind the ffb issue (a clear one in terms of cars, degree of steering, speed and downforce) fully described here...

sirio994
03-10-2017, 01:36
Mods talk to devs. I assume they know the issue and are already working on it. There's no way...litterally no way they didn't see this thread since has been the second most active in the PS4-support category...

ace1973
03-10-2017, 02:38
Well I'm not sure what your idea of FFB is, but I used your settings in your signature on my PS4 Pro, and G29, and there was almost no input what so ever. To me FFB should actually "feel" like a real car to some extent, and I have yet in almost 30 years of driving felt a vehicle that had no resistance when you turn the wheel. So before you decide there is nothing wrong in your opinion maybe you should just report the issue to someone who can possibly fix it. By the way my settings went back to informative, 100,55,48,46. Still not great but at least some feel to it

Civic
03-10-2017, 04:12
Hi Civic

I believe this is the key-point!
Can you post here the article which states AC introduced these fake effects to enhance the gaming experience?

I think he talks about it in this video. I don't have time to watch it right now but FFB discussion starts at the time in this link. Let me know if I've posted the right video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=miR3_FnsfSo&t=30m04s

Civic
03-10-2017, 04:23
I've also gone back to Informative I changed back a few days ago but haven't touched my FFB since. Admittedly I have also been focusing on only a few cars in that time so no promises.

Informative, G100, V50, T35, FX45, Menu 0.30

hkraft300
03-10-2017, 06:07
"Resistance"?
You know you've only got a G29, right? It's a budget wheel. It's not a Leo Bodnar or Fanatec. In saying that, the humble G29 actually has more resistance and ffb than the '14 Clio and '02 Polo I own. So unless you're commuting in a Caterham or BAC Mono, I'm not sure if we're comparing the same thing.

Have you driven the cars I had listed, with my settings, in the dry? Around Imola, Algarve, Le Mans, Spa, Road America there is plenty of ffb.

Crank up the resistance (controller configuration - damper saturation I believe it's called). Increase the volume. You'll get plenty of "resistance" but no actual ffb detail. Because the wheel will just be clipping all the way to Sunday.

rizental
03-10-2017, 06:26
cīmon blame g29 its ridiculous, lets sharing some feedback about this issue and try to improve the gameplay with the wheel on ps4, at the time its quite impossible!! i put civic config and improve a lot, lets hope a fix come soon.

Ciccina2016
03-10-2017, 07:31
I think he talks about it in this video. I don't have time to watch it right now but FFB discussion starts at the time in this link. Let me know if I've posted the right video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=miR3_FnsfSo&t=30m04s

Civic..

you are a star.. thank you very much. This explains everything.
I got used to these AC additional effects that enhance the FFB experience, especially the vibration from losing grip from fron tyres.
Some of them have been implemented in PC2 but some not , hence, the disappointment.

I don't think this will ever be fixed as it is not there period..
Maybe if create a big fat case and beg SMS this would work :D:D

hkraft300
03-10-2017, 08:39
...

I don't think this will ever be fixed as it is not there period..
Maybe if create a big fat case and beg SMS this would work :D:D

On consoles at least, the ffb menu has been taken in a different direction with PC2.
I like the "Raw", unfiltered, pure steering rack forces. Anything more is too much for my simple brain!

But with the implementation of ffb "flavours" SMS can very well incorporate special ffb effects.

Civic
03-10-2017, 11:14
The effects are mostly there in Immersive. In Immersive the Sliders work differently but crank up FX to about 80 in Immersive with Volume around 100 and you'll see what I'm talking about. But compare whatever Immersive setting you can come up with to my Informative settings above and I'll be willing to bet most people will pick the Informative setting even if it does feel a little dead sometimes.

martybee58
03-10-2017, 12:28
For those who say the ffb is right i suggest (as i already did) to test a Formula A or an Indy Car around Monza or Spa...

...

What is it like? Describe it? What should it feel like?

I've never driven a real F1 or Indy car at Monza or Spa so I don't know what its like..... Could it be accurate but because it does nt feel like any car you have driven it must be wrong?

I've done lots of laps at Snetterton in a Ginetta G40 GT5 in both real life and in the game and using settings similar to hkraft300 I "get it"...... The wheel is slightly heavier in a real G40 but catching slides, controlling understeer and lapping consistently is pretty easy (just like the real thing). The only thing that's harder to modulate in the game is locking the wheels on the brakes but that will always be difficult to replicate I guess.

I am however having issues with changing up gears. It seems to sometimes change up fine then other times it wont shift at all. I have the game set to auto clutch. I've tried backing off the gas, using the clutch and both but its too inconsistent to be conclusive.

Anybody else have that issue?

hkraft300
03-10-2017, 13:25
With high volume in those high downforce cars the G29 will just clip out, go limp. It'll feel numb and light.


...The only thing that's harder to modulate in the game is locking the wheels on the brakes but that will always be difficult to replicate I guess.

It's obvious at brake zones with elevation changes or one side is prone to lock up. Try some hard laps at Algarve :)




I am however having issues with changing up gears. It seems to sometimes change up fine then other times it wont shift at all...

I was having the same problem when I first got the wheel. Very random issue. Have you tried cleaning it? I just vac it sometimes and it hasn't missed a shift in >9 months.

sirio994
03-10-2017, 14:58
What is it like? Describe it? What should it feel like?

I've never driven a real F1 or Indy car at Monza or Spa so I don't know what its like..... Could it be accurate but because it does nt feel like any car you have driven it must be wrong?

I've done lots of laps at Snetterton in a Ginetta G40 GT5 in both real life and in the game and using settings similar to hkraft300 I "get it"...... The wheel is slightly heavier in a real G40 but catching slides, controlling understeer and lapping consistently is pretty easy (just like the real thing). The only thing that's harder to modulate in the game is locking the wheels on the brakes but that will always be difficult to replicate I guess.

I am however having issues with changing up gears. It seems to sometimes change up fine then other times it wont shift at all. I have the game set to auto clutch. I've tried backing off the gas, using the clutch and both but its too inconsistent to be conclusive.

Anybody else have that issue?

So it's normal to have a feedback deadzone? I'm curious to see which cars have it in real life...

sirio994
03-10-2017, 15:00
The deadzone problem is still there and it's clearly a bug. As i said it's not settings related. There are conditions that generate it and those have been fully described on this thrad by multiple users...

hkraft300
03-10-2017, 15:18
So it's normal to have a feedback deadzone? I'm curious to see which cars have it in real life...

Ffb is derived from the physics.
Specifically, the forces acting on the steering rack (tires->chassis->steering).
Going straight, there's not a lot pushing/pulling the tires laterally, or unevenly between left and right front wheel -
These have the biggest effect on the steering.

Adjust the alignment of the car (camber, caster and toe) you can immediately feel the effects on the ffb.

Anyway, all the road cars I've driven (in real life): really numb steering going straight. 2 finger highway cruising. Nothing happening.

You might be accustomed to fake ffb effects. PC2 has some SoP ffb on one of the flavours, but that's also physics derived from the back wheels iirc.
So again, going straight, there's not a lot going on until you turn, or the tires are loaded unevenly.

BTW, how did you calibrate your wheel?

sirio994
03-10-2017, 15:26
In fact it is correct but the ffb goes from 0-100 in open wheels, high downforce cars, lower degree of steering.

The wheel is well calobrated. As many other users said the more you away from that group of cars the less the problem...

I suggested monza and spa because those are two tracks with a layout capable of amplyfing the issue.

The parabolica starts with no ffb and then jumps to 100

That 100% ffb is ok once you get it...


There's almost no ffb at all in some conditions...where it should be in real life...

Civic
03-10-2017, 20:32
What is it like? Describe it? What should it feel like?

From real life driver accounts. A formula car has very weak steering in real life but an Indy car has some of the strongest steering forces you will find in any car.

The problem using a G29 wheel with a linear FFB setting is any car that has a wide range of force such as an Indy car will feel almost non existent at times and extremely strong during times of high load and since the resolution of a G29 is so low because so much compression is occurring to fit 30Nm into 3Nm the wheel will feel dead most of the time.

But this is exactly what we should expect with a linear feeling.

The problem is this is made worse due to an issue with built in minimum force tuning and an issue with slow speed FFB code.

Interestingly an F1 type of car if realistic should have the best FFB in the game because it is the closest to a 1:1 representation of force on a G29 wheel. Clearly the SMS version doesn't have power steering but that is okay because they never claimed it to be an exact F1 replica.

For me this next comment is a bit of pot calling kettle black because earlier I did the same but when people complain about the FFB on cars like the Indy car it is user error.

The problem is the flavour that should be best for G29 users isn't tuned very nice so most of us will keep going back to Informative and some RAW. Immersive if tuned right would be the correct flavour to use.

The problem for us is we can find incredible settings for some cars but they just can't work for all cars and of course most people wont understand why that is the case.

My understanding is the PC already has tools to deal with this that are designed to provide a better experience to the average person. From what I have read I have the impression even those need tweaking. I'm pretty sure with a bit of tweaking SMS will have great FFB. It might take a bit to get it right for every wheel out there and it is impossible to predict which wheels will get the best experience initially while others wait. I am pretty certain though the experience with a Direct Drive wheel would be great already.


Ffb is derived from the physics.
Specifically, the forces acting on the steering rack (tires->chassis->steering).
Going straight, there's not a lot pushing/pulling the tires laterally, or unevenly between left and right front wheel -
These have the biggest effect on the steering.

Adjust the alignment of the car (camber, caster and toe) you can immediately feel the effects on the ffb.

Anyway, all the road cars I've driven (in real life): really numb steering going straight. 2 finger highway cruising. Nothing happening.

You might be accustomed to fake ffb effects. PC2 has some SoP ffb on one of the flavours, but that's also physics derived from the back wheels iirc.
So again, going straight, there's not a lot going on until you turn, or the tires are loaded unevenly.

BTW, how did you calibrate your wheel?

I'm sure you don't realise this but your smug ignorance would be irritating to some people. While what you are saying is mostly correct you don't seem to understand the issues people are having and why your advice here will not fix their issues.

The first thing you should be aware of is we have been told SMS are working on it so if they are that would indicate they recognise there is an issue.

The second thing you may not be aware of is every developer understands minimum force. Our toy wheels all have an issue, they require a minimum force to move, below this they don't move. So if a developer simply gave us a realistic FFB signal always there is no PS4 compatible wheel on the market that would feel good. Developers understand that good and realistic feeling FFB requires additional force to deal with this minimum force issue.

The problem is minimum force needs to be tuned per wheel as even a G29 can be anywhere from 4% to over 20%. Sure most fall between 12% and 15% but we have seen Logitech wheels register movement with as low as 4% and we have seen others that do not move until 20%. And then all other wheels have different minimum force requirements as well.

If you apply a hard minimum force code which would start the smallest force in the range at x% and your setting is not matched to the specific wheel what you end up with is FFB deadzone or clunky feeling FFB depending on if the setting is too high or too low. The correct setting for a hard implementation is just below the minimum requirement. This gives a smooth transition while losing the least amount of information.

With this knowledge even if you have a G29 wheel and think you are having a good experience that does not mean the next G29 user will have a good experience if the minimum force tuning matches your wheel but not his wheel.

Some developers decide to go with a soft transition. There are various ideas about how to deal with minimum force issues. Simply adding force to any output will result in clipping at the top without further tuning. The easiest way around this is to make the ceiling adjustable and then to make the force curve adjustable. But some developers choose to instead code in a taper so the ceiling doesn't require moving. Personally I think this soft transition always feels off but the soft transition can feel a little better through the transition when the minimum force tuning is slightly out.

Okay. SMS actually have the makings of an awesome FFB system here. It is clearly well thought out.

Provide different flavours of FFB implementation to prevent users having to deal with settings they don't understand.
Provide a ceiling adjustment.
Provide a force curve adjustment.
Provide an FX adjustment.
Provide an adjustment that allows the user to blend between rack and tyre force.

The only thing I see missing there is the minimum force setting. Now from testing it would seem this setting is tied to the force curve adjustment so not completely missing. Personally I don't think that is an ideal way to do it and should be a separate setting although I don't think it is necessary to give the user a way to adjust this. SMS could easily add a tuning tool that measures a wheels minimum force requirement and set it accordingly from that. Perhaps they already are and the implementation is out. Anyway another issue is that other settings effect the feeling through the middle so the implementation of FFB is slightly out.

To me these are mostly tuning issues. I don't think they are difficult issues for SMS to work out. The slow speed code that amplifies the perception of something wrong will be a little harder but for the most part SMS just need to adjust some settings for PS4 user that we can't adjust like PC users can and most people should be mostly happy. The main one for most users will be Immersive, that is what G29 users should be using but the tuning is off at the moment.

I'll probably just keep using Informative. At the moment Informative feels like what i think Raw should feel like. I think there is something off with Raw but others in this thread seem to like it even with the G29.

Unfortunately for SMS I can see what they are trying to do and I understand the issue with that is it will never please everyone. Despite the tuning issues I can see what they have here is a brilliant FFB system and I can understand why they made some of the design choices they made and why certain changes to accomodate some people would potentially make things worse for others.

That's why I'm confident the system just needs some tuning and the slow speed code some adjusting and it will be right. You'll still get some user error resulting in some complaints but those people will easily be assisted.

hkraft300
03-10-2017, 23:12
Just trying to help with my smug ignorance. Help anyone get the best experience they can until SMS do whatever they do with the next patch.

SMS recognised an issue on xb1, and a force scale balance issue on some cars. The latter can be solved by adjusting ffb volume.

Civic
04-10-2017, 00:05
My apologies if I have misinterpreted your intentions. For some reason I have the impression that you don't have issues with the game and I've sensed a tone towards those who are having issues. If I've misunderstood again I apologise.

hkraft300
04-10-2017, 01:08
I haven't driven all the cars in the game (only about 5 hours :( ) so I haven't experienced it all.

From what I gather, and the way I've seen ffb work so far in the game, most of the issues have a solution. A workaround. Without identifying symptoms and set conditions, it's difficult to provide a solution.

Questions like "did you calibrate properly?" May seem condescending, but before buying my G29 I read through the ~100 pages of the G29 thread for pc1. Full of incorrect calibration. Common mistake. Can fix a lot of problems. As can adjusting steering ratio, or caster angle in the car setup.

Some people have different expectations of ffb. Some have overly generous ideas of their own driving abilities. Some could be fixed by their bad tuning skills. Some could actually be a problem with the default car setup that needs to be pin-pointed and addressed by the dev team. Some are just lost in a complex sea of variables that, to a newcomer can be overwhelming.

There's also the inherent deficiencies of the G29 to consider, as well as SMS ffb philosophy of pure physics based ffb without fake (aka canned) effects people seem to expect from a sim. The lack of which can be disconcerting to some, but it's by design. It's not broken.

So people don't have to shelve the game til the next patch.

It's also frustrating to see people, post after post: "it's broken, it's bugged" on repeat.

Either detail and pin point a problem, or understand the situation and try a workaround.

Your time-consuming posts, explanations, critiques, settings and work-arounds are an invaluable contribution to this forum. It's helped many people enjoy their experience of this game and their wheel.

I'm sure it's helped the dev team find some problems in the code.

That, dear readers, is contribution.

Complaints without information, data, situations that can help pinpoint a problem have no value. Same as a gossiping woman.

Civic
04-10-2017, 01:11
That's fair.

hkraft300
04-10-2017, 01:47
That's fair.

Your shortest post yet!
Lost for words for once :glee:

Aldo Zampatti
04-10-2017, 01:49
Your shortest post yet!
Lost for words for once :glee:

I'm giving you a like to you both just because of this outstanding accomplishment

Civic
04-10-2017, 01:52
On the rare occasion I am able to express all I mean to say concisely. One would think someone as lazy as me who tries to find the easiest way to do anything would be able to do it more often.

sirio994
04-10-2017, 03:00
It can happen. Expecially because his thread is long so it's hard to get into it later or keep track of it. As i said it's full of descriptions i hoped helped the devs.

I've never seen a thread so constructive with feelings and detailed descriptions. Plus the level of discussion was high that's the reason behind all of that confusion. Everyone who gave his/her contribution had some sim racing or racing experience. It is almost unevitable that a wheel calibration mention can be misread.

Someone might think he's talking to a newcomer and someone might think to be talking to a fanboy.

I've played every sim or.so in recent years. Never been a fan: loved and hated them all (for different reason).

I was scared of devs reading this thread and thinking that there are no problems at all and it's everything related to settings (which is not, since in this thread any combination has been tested).

A workaround is not a fix. It's good for a short period of time waiting for the real fix.

Racing games are complex and people can adapt even to issues (but it doesn't make the game better). I can drive a Formula A around Monza or Spa and getting decent times and be on pace but the feeling is awful...

sirio994
04-10-2017, 03:18
Question for Civic. If the thing could be related to scale and other factors why the karts seem to be the most affected category (based on what i read).

I just tested the karts and yes they are worse than Indy and Formula A. From the understanding i have right now of the mechaniscs it doesn't make sense to me (taking in conaideration the karts have by far the least accurate physics model of the game and are there only "for carreer mode purpose") ...

Civic
04-10-2017, 04:10
I have not tested the karts yet so I probably shouldn't speculate.

martybee58
04-10-2017, 08:52
Ffb is derived from the physics.
You might be accustomed to fake ffb effects.

I think this is a lot of the issue, I've not used my PS4 since GT Sport Demo and I'm getting on OK with pCars2. That's not to say its perfect/great, I just think there are so many games out there that behave differently you absolutely must give a car a fair crack (plenty of seat time) to "get it". Having said that, I've only had time to run a couple of cars (the ones I'm familiar with in real life) The G40 GT5 and the Radical SR3 so other may be "broken". My previous post was not supposed to be dismissive to the people complaining, just sharing my experience.

I will try to get on some of the car/track combo's mentioned to see if its the same for me.

I will also clean the G29 as suggested, that would make sense as I've not used it for a while. I will perhaps test it on a different game too to confirm either way.

shiftt
04-10-2017, 17:37
the g29 works fine
modify the settings

rizental
04-10-2017, 18:43
the g29 works fine
modify the settings

noooo!!! G29 ON PS4 dont work fine! all g29 on ps4 have to switch to Informative to mitigate the current FFB issue, until a fix is available.
the game rocgnize the wheel its supported but have some issues its not perfect at all, btw your info says PC So do you really have a PS4?

hkraft300
04-10-2017, 19:39
noooo!!! G29 ON PS4 dont work fine! all g29 on ps4 have to switch to Informative to mitigate the current FFB issue...

Mine works fine, on Raw.
What is your g29 "issue" and how/why is it fixed by "informative"?
Some cars may need a volume adjustment.

rizental
04-10-2017, 21:10
HI hkraft300 last week my g29 with default settings feels that drivin drunk sensation, the wheel goes left right without control in the straights. with Informative settings this stop happening and i could feel more the front wheels of the cars and could see more degradation from the tyres would could never achieve with the default settings.
and now this time the game is playable OK but when i watch tHe AI drivers could see some differences from my drive like they turn the steering wheel more smooth on the turns (cockpit camera) i think this time its from a steering ratio adjustaments Playing career mode FERRARI 488 ITALIA GT3 thanks


So hkraft300 for u RAW is satisfied ? are you playing at a great AI and is all perfect?

hkraft300
04-10-2017, 22:03
So, it's working fine for you on informative?

rizental
04-10-2017, 22:25
just OK from my taste , the game is incredible , but in my opionion theres an issue with G29 what do u think?

hkraft300
04-10-2017, 22:32
just OK from my taste , the game is incredible , but in my opionion theres an issue with G29 what do u think?

I think the G29 is working fine.
Some cars need more volume/tone, some cars less.

Personally, don't look at the AI cars. Maybe you want to reduce volume to avoid clipping (check telemetry).
The 488 GT3 doesn't feel great to me, but on same settings other cars feel excellent.

Civic
04-10-2017, 22:42
just OK from my taste , the game is incredible , but in my opionion theres an issue with G29 what do u think?

Yes there is something wrong with the G29, it isn't strong enough and it is too low resolution. That's why the sim racing community gave it hell when it was released, they were really hoping Logitech would bring something out that would be competitive against Thrustmaster.

rizental
04-10-2017, 22:55
Personally, don't look at the AI cars. Maybe you want to reduce volume to avoid clipping (check telemetry).
The 488 GT3 doesn't feel great to me, but on same settings other cars feel excellent.

thanks for the information later i will try more racing

hkraft300
05-10-2017, 01:25
Yes there is something wrong with the G29, it isn't strong enough and it is too low resolution.

Well, it is a budget wheel. We tend to expect a lot from it. It has a lot of drag and a weak motor so it's dynamic range is very limited. We want lots of road feel, tightness on centre, lots of bumps and kerb rumbles, lots of slip feel, throw some SoP in...
Go ahead and grab a DD wheel! It'll satisfy all your ffb wishes.

My heart said Fanatec, my wallet (wife?) said Logitech :(

Martini Da Gasalini
05-10-2017, 02:09
My heart said Fanatec, my wallet (wife?) said Logitech :(

Lol

Civic
05-10-2017, 02:42
Well, it is a budget wheel. We tend to expect a lot from it. It has a lot of drag and a weak motor so it's dynamic range is very limited. We want lots of road feel, tightness on centre, lots of bumps and kerb rumbles, lots of slip feel, throw some SoP in...
Go ahead and grab a DD wheel! It'll satisfy all your ffb wishes.

My heart said Fanatec, my wallet (wife?) said Logitech :(

Do you know what's funny? I got my G29 when it was on special and only bought it because it was great value but the price now is comparable to Fanatec prices, anyway the funny part is now that the prices are consistently high I could easily sell my G29 for more now after over 2 years of use than I bought it for brand new!

I might be the first person who gave the G29 a good review FWIW, if I wasn't the first I was among the first. http://www.edracing.com/edr/G29-review.php

hkraft300
05-10-2017, 07:12
That's extortion! The pedals are better than regular TM gear but it's not near the Fanatec.

Can grab a G29/920 locally for $350au any day (at MSY). Regular retailers have it listed at $500.

The PS4 compatible Fanatec kit is ~$1000au. The Senate (wife) has blocked that motion so far...

Civic
05-10-2017, 08:33
Have you seen how much they want over here for the T-GT? I was pretty keen until I saw the price.

LukeC
05-10-2017, 09:40
That's extortion! The pedals are better than regular TM gear but it's not near the Fanatec.

Can grab a G29/920 locally for $350au any day (at MSY). Regular retailers have it listed at $500.

The PS4 compatible Fanatec kit is ~$1000au. The Senate (wife) has blocked that motion so far...

Someone please insert a video of a whip cracking here. I'm on my mobile right now and I don't know how to copy and paste. :D

sirio994
05-10-2017, 09:41
The G29 is one of the best bundle you can get with a medium budget. Plus it's known for its longevity.

Personally if a TM reaches the Fanatec range i wouldn't buy it. I would jump at that point from an eventual T500 to the CSL...

Civic
05-10-2017, 10:21
FWIW the AU$800 Fanatec PS4 set only has the 2 pedal CSL elite pedals, if you want to add the clutch it takes the price to AU$1080 but if you want Clubsport V3 pedals the price jumps to AU$1250.

But when you compare it to the Thrustmaster T-GT price of AU$1200 you can only wonder what Thrustmaster were thinking???

sirio994
05-10-2017, 13:04
FWIW the AU$800 Fanatec PS4 set only has the 2 pedal CSL elite pedals, if you want to add the clutch it takes the price to AU$1080 but if you want Clubsport V3 pedals the price jumps to AU$1250.

But when you compare it to the Thrustmaster T-GT price of AU$1200 you can only wonder what Thrustmaster were thinking???

Exacly. Tha's the reason why many prefer the G29 to the T300. When i bought the G29 i was really tempted by the T300 (which is a better wheel, no doubt about it) but then when you think about the clutch and the H shifter it becomes an easy decision...

Driving an H shifter car with paddles takes away everything. The entusiasm, the immersion and the real challenge...

sirio994
05-10-2017, 13:10
Both are really late anyway...i'd think about the fanatec but this consoles generation is not far away from the end...

Buy a fanatec and be uncertain about the ps5 support is a risk i would not take, even though Sony words are good so far. But i don't fully believe them when they say that every hardware supported in this generation will be in the next one too.

I've always followed the "buy a good wheel at the beginning of the generation" phylosophy

sirio994
05-10-2017, 13:18
But the sim racing world can be crazy at times. I know people who play with the newest and the most expensigeve playseats and t150.

I've always wonder...why?!

hkraft300
05-10-2017, 13:57
Thrustmaster for Fanatec money? I'll take the Fanatec, thanks.


Someone please insert a video of a whip cracking here. :D

It's a process :rolleyes:


Both are really late anyway...i'd think about the fanatec but this consoles generation is not far away from the end...
...

Can't spend a grand on a toy that becomes obsolete at Sony's whim. Because then it's another 5g building a VR capable PC for future thunderstorm racing in project cars x...

The rug build is in the process for that Fanatec, though.

Civic
05-10-2017, 21:16
Thrustmaster for Fanatec money? I'll take the Fanatec, thanks.

I don't think it is that simple though. This particular wheel uses the same motor as the T-PC and other top end Thrustmaster wheels and in shootouts those wheels when tested against the Thrustmaster wheels have been regarded as equal to all but the V2.5 which isn't an option to console users.

But the T-GT sits above the other Thrustmaster wheels with 2 features that could potentially put it up there with the V2.5 or even above in some people's eyes.

The most significant to the average person will be T-Lin, the name Thrustmaster have given to the linearity feature in this wheel. Unlike other belt or gear driven wheel this wheel claims to have been designed to give linear FFB like a Direct Drive wheel. If that is even possible that might put it above any other belt driven wheel on the market but a certain amount of scepticism should potentially be given to such a claim because unless the wheels firmware is constantly measuring and recalibrating the force curve, the force curve in a belt driven wheel will change as the belt ages and is contributed to by the position you leave the wheel resting in when you don't use it. That is why some people leave their belt driven wheels fully rotated when not in use to move the belt dead zone to the end of rotation.

The other feature which is GTS exclusive is the vibration puck to provide a second FFB system which provides realistic bumps and vibrations in GTS. The desirability of this feature will be dependant on how good GTS is but if GTS was someone's favourite game this would be the best wheel you can buy to play with it.

So the actual wheel base is at least on par with but might be better than the PS4 Fanatec wheel base in any game but then Fanatec have the pedal option of the V3 pedals that are widely regarded as far superior.

I don't know, I'm still watching this wheel because if it turns out to provide a similar Direct Drive wheel experience and the same performance edge that Direct Drive wheels provide it might be worth the asking price and I'd buy it over the PS4 Fanatec wheel.

BUT we don't know much about the Direct Drive wheel from Fanatec and if that wheel supports console then it would be a no brainier to wait for it.

hkraft300
05-10-2017, 21:44
But the Fanatec is prettier :glee:

wyldanimal
06-10-2017, 06:08
But the Fanatec is prettier :glee:

I just pulled the trigger, and my Fanatec CSLE wheel and V3 Pedals Arrive tomorrow.
I also ordered the Drive Hub from Collective Minds.
I believe I might be able to get the TH8A shifter to work with it.. but if not, it will work with my G29..

The Drive Hub does allow you to use the TH8A with the G29 Wheel.
Here's a video demonstration Thanks to MarcoM for sending me the link

http://cronusmax.com/forums/showthread.php/175842-LOGITECH-G29-THRUSTMASTER-TH8A-SHIFTER-ON-PS4-AWESOME


also the V2.5 base is supported by Drive hub. So you can use the V2.5 on PS4
List of supported Wheels found here
http://shop.cronusmax.com/drivehub.html

Civic
06-10-2017, 09:13
Give us your impressions after you feel like you have them dialled in on PC2 on the PS4.

I've got an Ioni Pro and Ionicube here that I have never got around to using. Now that people have got OSW's to work on PS4 I'll admit I've been tempted and when you see the price they want for some of these toy wheels now I can't help but think I should just build the OSW.

Aizcold
06-10-2017, 09:20
@Civic, thanks so much for posting your G29 FFB settings and FFB guide. I've been using them ever since you posted them here and it's made all the difference. Some cars feel absolutely amazing to drive now and I'm enjoying the game even more than Pcars 1 as a result. So thank you!

legacy-8
06-10-2017, 13:09
Civic, do you mind posting your latest settings? I look around and there are a few variants and worried I may have missed the latest. Your guide was very helpful to me too, thank you

paulofma
06-10-2017, 13:15
I believe I might be able to get the TH8A shifter to work with it.. but if not, it will work with my G29..

The Drive Hub does allow you to use the TH8A with the G29 Wheel.
Here's a video demonstration Thanks to MarcoM for sending me the link


Yes, it works perfectly. The video is mine. I hope he has helped you.

Civic
06-10-2017, 17:17
Civic, do you mind posting your latest settings? I look around and there are a few variants and worried I may have missed the latest. Your guide was very helpful to me too, thank you

Like I said right in the beginning, I would be surprised if what worked for me and my wheel was the best for you and your wheel. And keep in mind my settings are a compromise, I feel they give me the best experience overall in the cars I'm driving but occasionally I'll try a different car and feel my settings don't work so well with it.

Also try other peoples settings, you might like what someone else is doing. Try hkraft300's RAW settings, try them with more Gain. Keep an eye out just in case someone says they have good Immersive settings because I'm missing some of that excitement I was getting when I was using Immersive.

Anyway off the top of my head I'm at INFORMATIVE G100 V50 T35 FX45 MENU 0.30 I may have upped my FX back to 50, I can't remember and I'm not feeling like booting up the PS4 in the other room to find out. I've stopped tweaking for now. Actually I haven't even played for over a day since I rage quit due to the disconnection issues I was having with online.

My son has been playing though and something worth mentioning is what he said about my camera movement settings. Keep in mind we are strict cockpit racers and we race with a mathematically correct FOV. My son guessed my FFB and Movement settings and came up with something of his own, he told me at first he was glad he did not know what all my exact settings were because it allowed him to find what worked for him and I think that's a really good path to follow.

BUT when he did finally try my settings he said it transformed the game for him and changed the way he perceived the FFB so I'll share them as well.

So for movement I have World Movement set to 70 and g force set to 10 and everything else off or set to 0. The only 2 movements I want is those, no looking to apex or any rubbish like that. FWIW I have not tried head shake in this game mainly because I had already read there is something wrong with it and have never felt like I was lacking a sense of speed in PC2 but in iRacing I always considered head shake a great tool to improve the sense of speed.

And I wouldn't say I need the settings to be those exact numbers as I could easily live with different settings that were close to those numbers. But I do feel those movements are best when they are subtle and generally I try to dial in every sim I drive with very similar movements.

umiJoe
06-10-2017, 18:51
Your time-consuming posts, explanations, critiques, settings and work-arounds are an invaluable contribution to this forum. It's helped many people enjoy their experience of this game and their wheel.

I'm sure it's helped the dev team find some problems in the code.

That, dear readers, is contribution.

Complaints without information, data, situations that can help pinpoint a problem have no value. Same as a gossiping woman.
I've been wanting to add a few bits of info here that might be of interest to the devs, but had to postpone it for a few days due to RL interfering:
Now that I have time to check back in, this topic has moved 10+ pages along, huh.

Since I am a dev myself, I tried to replicate and pinpoint the issues I have experienced with the G29 in regards to FFB.
One thing I've noticed is that people don't make use of the screenshot function - that's a valuable tool to home in on something that's best described by "feelings".


Anyway, here goes nothing:

* Versions:
========================================
PrjCars2 == PS4 Version
PrjCars2 FW Version == V01.00.0842

PS4 Model == First Model
PS4 Firmware (FW) Version == 5.00
========================================



* PrjCars2 FFB Settings used (recommended on this forum):
========================================
Deadzone Steering == 0

(FFB tab)
type == informative
amplitude == 90
intensity == 37
volume == 35
FX == 43
menu == 0.40
========================================



Issue description:
========================================
* Short issue description
When driving, FFB oscillates from left to right/vice versa in an unwanted FFB activation pattern.
FFB effect is impeding driving performance, i.e. turning into a corner can be impeded by corrective force applied by user to keep car in a straight line.

* Exemplary image, taken ingame:
(sorry, I'd like to have added pictures inline here, but i do not have enough posts, so I can just add the link with a few blanks added.)
https: // s1.postimg.org/69rvy2o0cf/Project_CARS_2_20171001183007.png

* Visualized issue:
Going in a straight line here, FFB is activated in a (seemingly) non-deterministic pattern. See rectangular box with yellow graph in lower right corner.

* Environment when picture has been taken
--------------------------------------
Mode == Custom race
Track == Circuit of the Americas
Car == Cadillac ATS-V GT3
Session == Free Practice
--------------------------------------

* Applied Inputs:
Can be seen on screen, tried to action no inputs to pinpoint issue.


* Can be reproduced:
--------------------------------------
Same Track, same car, same environment, same game mode
=> Yes, regularly.
Not the exact same position on track though, taking human misjudgement of placement on the track into account.
FFB pattern cannot be deterministically reproduced due to unknown factors influencing this behaviour.
However, general type of pattern is similar, i.e. differences in length, strength, amplitude and frequency observed, but effect is the same.


Can also be reproduced with:
=> Same car, different tire compounds
=> Different Car with similar Drivetrain layout == Bentley Continental GT3
=> Different Car with differing Drivetrain layout == Audi R8 LMS GT3 (Endurance Version)
=> Different number of AI controller opponents (values tested: 32, 4)


CANNOT be reproduced when:
=> Same Track, same car, same environment, game mode == private training.
=> I was >never< able to reproduce when alone on track.


observed variance:
=> with same car, same session, sample-size: 10 laps, each lap, roundabout the same position on track (differing FFB pattern can be seen in image below)
https: // s1.postimg.org/9fljue31nz/Project_CARS_2_20171001183225.png

=> with 4 opponents, the issue is less pronounced (can also be seen on following screenshot)
https: // s1.postimg.org/6teyy6goyn/Project_CARS_2_20171001200319.png


any other noticeable/striking/noteworthy observations:
=> yes, when driving against 4 cars, going slowly, low-amplitude rumbling observed (pattern can be seen in image below)
https: // s1.postimg.org/5kebydig6n/Project_CARS_2_20171001200358.png
--------------------------------------

* Actions taken to resolve issue
=> restart session
=> restart race session
=> restart game
=> disconnect & reconnect wheel
=> restart console
=> trying new (abovementioned) FFB settings
=> recalibrated wheel
=> recalibrated wheel using different calibration pattern (turning wheel to the right instead of left only)
=> trying different cars, environment settings, different number of opponents
=> could issue be resolved? No.
========================================



additional, stream of consciousness style-notes:
========================================
* at first, I thought that it might be a setup issue with the Bentey GT3

* Caddy ATS-V does show the same issue

* when alone on track, issue not observed => maybe a load-issue with older PS4?

* is there a difference when being in Pos 1 or Pos 32 in a race?
=> Pos 1: all cars are behind you, hypothesis: cars might be drawn with less detail
=> Pos 32: last place, all cars in front of player, assumption: heavier load due to draw distance & objects on screen.
Observation: Being in Pos 32 DOES make a difference: Issue can be observed in corners/parts of the track where it was not noticed beforehand.

* when trailing the field ~5 seconds or ~10 seconds behind in P32, same behaviour?
Observation: Pattern is still observed

* when racing against four AI-controlled opponents:
Observation: pattern less pronounced
========================================


programmers hypothesis' brainstorming
========================================
* some global variable issue? (additive effect of amplitude?) => no noticeable effect could be observed over ~10 laps
* pattern caused by opponents? => e.g. when opponent hits curbs, erroneous triggering of FFB for the player? => does appear when no opponent is hitting curbs
* simplified physics calculations when number of cars increases? => unlikely. when pattern was not observed, caddy/its physics felt "normal"
* lower number of game loop passes due to more cars to consider for calculations?
* ... it probably is just the G29 being a cheaper wheel variant compared to e.g. Fanatec wheels.
========================================

If i find the time, I'll try to reproduce this on e.g. Monza, as has been suggested itt.
If more/extensive info is needed, feel free to ask.




n.b.:
Even when just turning solo laps on new tracks (e.g. Long Beach), I am loving this game <3.

Civic
06-10-2017, 19:22
Since I am a dev myself

No kidding, your post is like reading code. For me that isn't a good thing, I had to force my way through it. That was really hard to push through, I'm guessing that's also how plenty of people feel when they read my posts.

But that's really good info and I feel like it belongs in the bug thread.

I'll just add that I have also noticed that in online racing the intensity of FFB constantly changes. I have not been testing with AI at all since the first day or two.

For anyone else who couldn't push through the above post, umiJoe documented an issue where sessions with AI are providing a different FFB experience to solo testing, primarily a unexpected oscillation. He is testing using my earlier FFB settings. I suspect if he was testing with my more recent settings his results would be worse.

wyldanimal
06-10-2017, 20:20
Give us your impressions after you feel like you have them dialled in on PC2 on the PS4.

I've got an Ioni Pro and Ionicube here that I have never got around to using. Now that people have got OSW's to work on PS4 I'll admit I've been tempted and when you see the price they want for some of these toy wheels now I can't help but think I should just build the OSW.

this arrived today. As this is sort of Off topic, I'll put it in a new thread once I get it setup and dialed in...
still waiting for the Drive Hub to Arrive, but I'm going to connect it with out the hub to give it a go anyway.

PS: I ordered the CSLE PS4 base, but for $20 more, it came as a Bundle with the Elite Pedals ( 2 pedal set )
so for $20, I got the bundle, even though I had also order the V3 pedals. That's why two sets of Pedals.

242069

Bvw90
09-10-2017, 13:05
Hi after trying almost every setup I could find on YouTube/forum/Facebook groups . Some felt good but weren't particularly fast and vice-versa. Iv finally found a setup that seems almost perfect for me ��! If anybody else is still struggling after civics set up try this one . ( yes I know people say don't touch the steering sensitivity ect.. myself included, but trust me just try it )

Steering dz- 0
Steering Sen-100
Throttle dz- 0
Throttle Sen -100
Brake dz- 0
Brake Sen - 50
Clutch dz - 18 (personal choice)
Clutch Sen- 17 (personal choice)
Speed Sen - 81
Damper sat- 100
Con damp - 20 (not needed)

FFB SETTiNGS

Raw G-90 V-60 T-45 FX-65 , 0.05

Hopefully this will help the few who can't get along with any others like me . This is also my first post so be nice if you hate it ��

Civic
09-10-2017, 14:48
Hi after trying almost every setup I could find on YouTube/forum/Facebook groups . Some felt good but weren't particularly fast and vice-versa. Iv finally found a setup that seems almost perfect for me ��! If anybody else is still struggling after civics set up try this one . ( yes I know people say don't touch the steering sensitivity ect.. myself included, but trust me just try it )

Steering dz- 0
Steering Sen-100
Throttle dz- 0
Throttle Sen -100
Brake dz- 0
Brake Sen - 50
Clutch dz - 18 (personal choice)
Clutch Sen- 17 (personal choice)
Speed Sen - 81
Damper sat- 100
Con damp - 20 (not needed)

FFB SETTiNGS

Raw G-90 V-60 T-45 FX-65 , 0.05

Hopefully this will help the few who can't get along with any others like me . This is also my first post so be nice if you hate it ��

You don't have your driver arms showing do you?

The reason I say that is because a steering sensitivity setting of 100 means your wheel turns more in game than your input. 50 is the 1:1 setting so your in game wheel movements match your input.

Bvw90
09-10-2017, 15:58
You don't have your driver arms showing do you?

The reason I say that is because a steering sensitivity setting of 100 means your wheel turns more in game than your input. 50 is the 1:1 setting so your in game wheel movements match your input.

I know this goes against every other setting out there . But it's giving me consistent fast (for me) lap times . And I can catch most slides instead of veering off into a hedge or barrier . I was sceptical before I tried them I didn't expect much . But it instantly felt better and have been placing in top 5 most races ( until some d*ck goes into the back of me first corner :abnormal:

Civic
09-10-2017, 21:55
I know this goes against every other setting out there . But it's giving me consistent fast (for me) lap times . And I can catch most slides instead of veering off into a hedge or barrier . I was sceptical before I tried them I didn't expect much . But it instantly felt better and have been placing in top 5 most races ( until some d*ck goes into the back of me first corner :abnormal:

If you want to drive like that it is your right but there is a better way to do what you are trying to do that should make you faster still.

Try driving the Kart with the settings you are using currently, I can't imagine it will be fun.

It's your game and you can play your game how you want. Yes you can make it less of a sim and more of a game, trust me when I say there is nothing new to what you are doing and people have been doing something very similar through the history of ISI games. But there is a better way to have more responsive steering that will probably make you faster and more consistent. The method you are using isn't the best method. If you set your steering sensitivity back to 50 and change your steering ratio in the setups, you'll still get that quicker steering response but it will be more realistic and better to drive. I'm pretty sure you'll be even faster and more consistent.

hkraft300
09-10-2017, 22:18
... If you set your steering sensitivity back to 50 and change your steering ratio in the setups, you'll still get that quicker steering response but it will be more realistic and better to drive. I'm pretty sure you'll be even faster and more consistent.

Somebody post this on every page of every wheel thread please.

Bvw90
10-10-2017, 06:35
Somebody post this on every page of every wheel thread please.
I'll give your setup another go this evening :adoration:

What do you do when people disable tuning setups in lobby ?

I just find the settings I posted a good quick medium without having to go through the hastle of setting up every car every game . I find I spend more time messing about with stuff than I do racing . Probably just me !

GT Sport it is then :eagerness: .. jokes , it's a great bit of fun tho !

Civic
10-10-2017, 06:57
GT Sport it is then :eagerness: .. jokes , it's a great bit of fun tho !

That's all I've been playing today.

Bvw90
10-10-2017, 08:41
Sorry I know it's off topic ... did you find the handling/ffb on that great without changing a setting?

It's no project cars for realism. But is rewarding for the casual racer ���� . Just wish the online servers were 100% as the AI is slowww

hkraft300
10-10-2017, 09:30
What do you do when people disable tuning setups in lobby ?



Funny enough most race cars I've driven in the game so far have had a default ratio between 11:1 and 13.5:1. My personal preference is 12:1. So it mostly works for me.

Others will have to bear with the default ratio for the odd default-tune race, but they're not forced to drive the car that way all the time.

ShneebnaMRR108
10-10-2017, 16:02
Great work umiJoe !

programmers hypothesis' brainstorming
========================================
* some global variable issue? (additive effect of amplitude?) => no noticeable effect could be observed over ~10 laps
* pattern caused by opponents? => e.g. when opponent hits curbs, erroneous triggering of FFB for the player? => does appear when no opponent is hitting curbs
* simplified physics calculations when number of cars increases? => unlikely. when pattern was not observed, caddy/its physics felt "normal"
* lower number of game loop passes due to more cars to consider for calculations?
* ... it probably is just the G29 being a cheaper wheel variant compared to e.g. Fanatec wheels.
========================================

I also noticed varying amounts of issues depending on how many AI and where they and you are on the track. I finally got a setting that is pretty weak feeling, but at least won't bust up my G920 wheel.
G920 - INF - GT3 cars
57/30/52/0
Hope the patch is released soon, because this is a lot of experimentation work just to run a lobby race and not bust a nut.

sirio994
11-10-2017, 12:47
Has anyone tested the G29 post 2.00?

hkraft300
11-10-2017, 12:52
Downloading now.
6.7GB


... at least won't bust up my G920 wheel.
G920 - INF - GT3 cars
57/30/52/0
...

Crank it up mate. I had it on abuse levels for a year on PC1. Mad rattles :glee:

She'll be alright.

sirio994
11-10-2017, 13:03
I won't be home till evening. But i've time to do a test on the fly. I'll try a Formula A@Spa, Indy@Imdy and LMP1@LeMans.

Should be enough to get a quick idea if the scale problem is fixed...

Thise seemed to be the most affected cars...

sirio994
11-10-2017, 13:36
Did the small test. Didn't see any difference on default settings. Loose setups help but there's still no progression in the feedback...

From what i've seen no changes on the G29 (anyway the patch notes talked about "wheel support" which is not the case here)

hkraft300
11-10-2017, 13:41
I won't be home till evening. But i've time to do a test on the fly. I'll try a Formula A@Spa, Indy@Imdy and LMP1@LeMans.

Should be enough to get a quick idea if the scale problem is fixed...



You'd want to try a low force car too on the same settings, wouldn't you?

I've only driven the R18 round Bathurst a few laps but not the others.

sirio994
11-10-2017, 14:08
If i remember correctly what Civic wrote. He nailed the problem. The G29 is not able to replicate strong forces so if the game set strong forces to the G29 ideal 100% (not in this case though...other games provide way stronger feedback) to keep the real scale of proportions...the low part of the feedback is cut out because it reaches the minimum force of the wheel...

Ciccina2016
11-10-2017, 14:21
Did the small test. Didn't see any difference on default settings. Loose setups help but there's still no progression in the feedback...

From what i've seen no changes on the G29 (anyway the patch notes talked about "wheel support" which is not the case here)

:(((((

legacy-8
11-10-2017, 14:32
Looking forward to hearing from Civic with an update over the next couple of days, hopefully he can get some decent settings

Ciccina2016
11-10-2017, 14:39
at least we have loose setups.. haven't we?

legacy-8
11-10-2017, 19:47
Been having a play with it, the Ferrari F488 feels amazing with these settings...(on my G29)

Raw
92
65
60
60
0.30

Shogun613
11-10-2017, 20:49
Playing around with the ffb again, tried Raw, 40, 65, 100... I guess the autotunes we're keeping me from clipping, but with the Lamborghini Huracan GT3 at Brands, everything felt pretty alive, felt front lockup, can feel the suspension settle into turns. This is pre patch, though.

Bvw90
11-10-2017, 20:51
What's your config input please . Been messing with mine and don't know where I am :nonchalance:

Shogun613
11-10-2017, 20:56
Steering Dead zone 0
Sensitivity 50
Throttle dz 7
Throttle sens 50
Brake dz 7
Brake sens 35 (might go back to 40)
Clutch dz 7
Clutch sens 50
Speed sens 0

legacy-8
11-10-2017, 21:05
What's your config input please . Been messing with mine and don't know where I am :nonchalance:

Give this a go...

Raw
92
65
60
60
0.30

Bvw90
11-10-2017, 22:11
Steering Dead zone 0
Sensitivity 50
Throttle dz 7
Throttle sens 50
Brake dz 7
Brake sens 35 (might go back to 40)
Clutch dz 7
Clutch sens 50
Speed sens 0

Cheers will try tomorrow with a fresh head :cool:

jubamad
13-10-2017, 03:50
Has anyone tested the G29 post 2.00?

Yes, no change for me. Still bad.

Struggling to find a balanced setting. I know every car drives differently, but it's not even that, it's hard to get the settings right, and once you get it, then next track/car feels completely different in a bad way.

I'll have a last try this weekend otherwise I'll give up and keep PC1 and then get GTS, which feels 100x better on G29.

Martini Da Gasalini
13-10-2017, 04:08
Yes, no change for me. Still bad.

Struggling to find a balanced setting. I know every car drives differently, but it's not even that, it's hard to get the settings right, and once you get it, then next track/car feels completely different in a bad way.

I'll have a last try this weekend otherwise I'll give up and keep PC1 and then get GTS, which feels 100x better on G29.
When you say "bad" what is bad for you? The feel of the weight of the wheel, no feel of road like rumble strip, car sliding, or the force feed back?

hkraft300
13-10-2017, 06:53
Give this a go...

Raw
92
65
60
60
0.30

I'm not liking the high tone setting on raw. Did a few races with tone at 60.

I dropped it to 40 this morning and whoa.. me likey!
Having to keep volume less than 45 to avoid clipping too.
Each to their own. I prefer the Mz resistance (or I like to think of it as caster effect) to the Fy/ tire slip feel.

Shogun613
13-10-2017, 08:31
Playing around some more... My previous settings were clipping in some cars, others not so much. My new experiments with RAW yield no clipping so far, and I'm feeling lockup, surface and curbs pretty well:
RAW
100
40
50
75

hkraft300
13-10-2017, 09:20
Mate try reducing tone. I had it up at 60 and there's "resistance" and weight but without detail. Maybe I'm just ham-fisted.

Dropped tone to 40 this morning and it freed up the G29. Might be that the Panoz feels amazing and I'll have to try current GT cars over the weekend.
I like the increased Fx too.

jubamad
13-10-2017, 09:26
When you say "bad" what is bad for you? The feel of the weight of the wheel, no feel of road like rumble strip, car sliding, or the force feed back?

Bad in a sense I can't get the weight to feel right. It's always a bit too light. For example, I used to race a lot with the 1978 BMW 320 TURBO on PC1 and it felt great. I could handle the car very well, feel the weight, tire slipping, good FFB, etc. Same car on PC2, I tried everything, it never feel the same. Now, of course I never drove this car in real life to know exactly how it feels, if PC1 is more realistic or not, but I can say that in PC2 is much harder to control. It's frustrating.

Driving on the snow was particularly bad for me as well. No matter what car I tried, FWD, RWD, AWD, I couldn't get the tires feel and never managed to stop on the track.

Civic
13-10-2017, 11:29
I've gone in a different direction with my FFB

I'm currently on

Informative
Gain varies
Volume 80
Tone 20
FX 40

And I set gain per car. I like it pretty strong but with these settings and a strong gain setting the wheel will oscillate sometimes if you let it go. My current gain setting is 95 but it needs to be lowered for some cars.

hkraft300
13-10-2017, 13:11
I see you've gone the way of low tone, too.

Civic
13-10-2017, 13:19
I started with low tone and on Informative I think I was always Low, 35 was high for me. I've gone back to 20 because I feel like you have a better sense of car behaviour and tyre slip. It might be a little unrealistic but it is an informative setting.

I went with 80 on volume to add the immersion. The funny thing with this setting is it seems to have sweet points and areas between those sweet points have odd behaviours. It's also very interactive with Gain.

For FX I kind of just settled at 40. Most of the what I associate with FX seems to be coming from the strong volume setting.

legacy-8
13-10-2017, 13:22
Funny enough hkraft, I lowered my tone too since I posted my settings!

Ended up with:

RAW
92
45
40
60

No clipping (yet) but only really been in the GT1 and GT3 series.

Can't for the life of me get a decent setting on informative or immersive without major clipping, where as raw is the smoothest now. Pre patch 2.0, raw would send my wheel flying around the room like the tasmanian devil! Strange turn of events...

hkraft300
13-10-2017, 14:05
Too right.

I want the wheel flying around the room like Tasmanian devil!

Might drop the tone down some more and crank up fx.

Shogun613
13-10-2017, 18:51
I like the feel of lower tone, too. Personally, the more surface feel I have, the more I feel like I can control slides, sometimes even using them to my advantage. Sliding through the apex at the last turn of the RedBull Ring then getting on the power as the rear hooks up again is pure joy.

Civic
13-10-2017, 20:14
Probably because it is more realistic. In a real car you don't get a choice, the force you feel comes from the rack, which would be zero tone. In a realistic sim zero tone would be the most realistic setting. The problem over the years has been tyre models have not been that great and so adding this tyre force to FFB has felt more realistic to some people in sims. Now even if they get the physics perfect perhaps the feeling and additional information that comes from doing that will mean people might always want to blend a little tyre force in with the rack force.

fbetes
14-10-2017, 14:10
242801

FFB is stronger than previous version (2.0 patch). I've decrease some parameters and now I'm enjoying a lot with this configuration.

Dandanman94
17-10-2017, 16:01
My G29 seemed to get a lot heavier after the 2.0 patch but then the day after it went light again, has anyone else had this?

I'm using Legacy-8's FFB settings at the moment:

RAW
92
45
40
60

Also on a side note is it worth plugging G29 into a computer and downloading the latest drivers, would this make any difference? Mine has only ever been hooked up to the PS4 so I would imagine the drivers are out of date? Or am I completely wrong?